User talk:Ze

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New logo large.png Welcome to RationalWiki, Ze!

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Palaeonictis Fossil beds 00:59, 26 February 2019 (UTC)


Because of your edits to and time on the wiki, Autopatrolled has been added to your user rights. This lets you bypass most of the abuse filters, bypass the CAPTCHA, and edit more frequently. If you have questions, bleat ask away.

We hope you enjoy your newfound ᴘᴏᴡᴇʀ — and these external tools:


Because of your edits to and time on the wiki, wizard Sysop has been added to your user rights. Feel free to let your newfound ᴘᴏᴡᴇʀ course through your veins. Once the high wears off, see RationalWiki:Sysop guide for more information. If you have questions, bleat ask away. — Dysk (contribs) 10:35, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

A courtesy

You blocked User:SimonandSimon for 9 hours. I had a look at their contribs and couldn't see why a block of an autopatrolled editor was warranted. I have, therefore, undone your block. --MtDBogan 17:18, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

D started to block any accounts that mention the troll beginning with "M" (who socks here daily and is regularly blocked). There's even a word filter on his name so users that aren't sysops cannot mention him, although he can easily be found and has a RationalWiki article (I wrote a comment on its talk.) Apparently anyone who now mentions "M" is getting blocked based only on something D has said; no other sysops voted on this issue or approved it.SimonandSimon (talk) 17:40, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
Don't take my unblock as an endorsement of what you've done, are doing or are intending to do. It was User:EK who blocked you, not User:D. I simply cannot see, on the basis of your edits thus far, what warranted a block. I have a suspicion this will change in the near future. --MtDBogan 17:47, 17 April 2019 (UTC)


Hey, you reverted a couple edits of mine on Men's rights movement. I'm not sure why; could you please explain? — Unsigned, by: Hppavilion1 / talk / contribs

because it didnt improve the article

you added: "though on the other hand, most people would consider being seen as helpless superior to be to being dead"; because me condescension or give me death!

you removed: "The fact that women attempt suicide more often would indicate that female suicide is a more important problem."; because Removed a sentence which contributed little which opened a huge can of worms about moral philosophy (if more women than men attempt suicide, but more men succeed, which issue is more important?)

no? EK (talk) 09:27, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

(I wrote the following before your edit came through)
UPDATE: I'm reading through change-by-change to see what I did; most of the edits were single word changes (for example, "must" to "should", when should is more appropriate in the context). The first change affecting meaning was in a paragraph about birth control; it stated men have access to condoms and vasectomies, but "condoms do fail"- vasectomies aren't perfect either, since they don't always take, which is an extremely important thing to note.
The next was adding a clause reading "These are obviously both wrong" to a section discussing two isolated instances where men really did get screwed over by the courts (a man being ordered to pay child support after his sperm was stolen; a molested 12-year-old being ordered to pay child support) (these examples existing in the article before my edit).
The next was an edit in the section on suicide; the MRA argument is "more men commit suicide than women", the rebuttal was "more women attempt suicide, men just tend to be more successful. I removed a sentence reading "The fact that women attempt suicide more often would indicate that female suicide is a more important problem," because which is the more important problem in that case is up for serious debate.
The final change was in the section on the Birkenhall Drill ("women and children first"); one was an innocuous change noting that MRAs' issue is with the 'women' part, not the 'children' part; the final substantial change, and I suspect the sentence that you reverted my edit over, was an addition to the sentence beginning with "When the "women and children first" trope has been applied, you have to really wonder if it's ultimately condescending to women." I added the clause at the end "though on the other hand, most people would consider being seen as helpless superior to be to being dead." (which, on a second read-through, was really poorly-phrased). My thoughts on the matter are, basically, that if it were actually used frequently, the Birkenhall drill would be one of the few examples where men are screwed over more than women. The issue I took with that sentence was that saying that the drill may be "ultimately condescending to women" is because essentially, men are the ones who would be getting the short end of the stick in that case—if the Birkenhall Drill is in effect, women get condescended to, men get dead. The argument seemed reminiscent of "affirmative action is patronizing to minorities," basically. Hppavilion1 (talk) 09:38, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
TL;DR: Yeah, that first one was really poorly done, my apologies; the latter was removed because... one could argue that "more women attempt suicide than men" means "female suicide is a more important problem", but one could equally-well argue that "more men actually die from suicide than women" means "male suicide is a more important problem", and the statement took a side when I'm not sure there's a correct interpretation. No malice was intended in my edits, but that first sentence was very poorly written, yes. Hppavilion1 (talk) 09:44, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
ye it was overall not an improvement but u could put the vasectomies part back EK (talk) 09:56, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
Done. I totally get the reason you'd revert — I think I tried to combine humor and wound up with a Frankenstein's monster of a sentence, and article's probably a huge MRA target in the first place. (I was historically more MRA-leaning, but I actually find myself today reading through the articles on people I used to like- such as TheAmazingAtheist and Sargon of Akkad, just to see them from a new perspective.)
I still think the suicide sentence's statement is disputable; I would argue that more people actually dying makes male suicide one of those rare issues in which men have it worse (though most suicide prevention policies should be pretty much gender neutral.)
The Birkenhall drill section, too, has some issues imo- but I'm not sure how to fix it. Hppavilion1 (talk) 10:23, 22 May 2019 (UTC)


Yeah I changed my mind, check your email. — Dysk (contribs) 08:57, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Hitler vs Mao vs democracy

Left a comment at Hitler vs Mao. Would you consider yourself more of a Hitlerite, a Maoist, or perhaps simply a defender of modern democracy? Scottperry (talk) 20:27, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

the essay is more mixed and doesnt follow any actual ideology tho i tried to make it more hitlerite. EK (talk) 12:35, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
Anarchism vs: democracy vs: totalitarianism... There is one missing ingredient in all of these. What some have called "the milk of human kindness." No system of government, or lack thereof, can legislate this into existence, or out of existence. It exists in some other dimension, where governments and the wayward, cannot tread, but yet can aspire to. Gandhi, Lincoln, King, and many others have aspired to this. Scottperry (talk) 16:56, 8 September 2019 (UTC)
<3 EK (talk) 18:28, 8 September 2019 (UTC)


Looks like I moved the Sellner draft page to Talk -- yikes. Thanks for catching that. CogitoNotStirred (via telepathy) (talk) 15:07, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

thx EK (talk) 19:34, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

my membership

I have a question. Does my contribution to 'Recent changes' not appear at all when my qualifications are changed to bot or ninja?--BluePink (talk) 00:59, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

when u have the bot role ur edits do not appear in recent changes. the ninja role allows to add or remove the bot role EK (talk) 01:01, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
Okay. Thank you for the good information.--BluePink (talk) 01:04, 27 September 2019 (UTC)


You're a vote counter, but I don't have your email and neither does the wiki! Email me or via the wiki :-) - David Gerard (talk) 22:02, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

the wiki won't send a confirmation so it doesn't have it, I posted it on ur talk page tho EK (talk) 15:10, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

The mod page

May I ask why you removed my post as part of yours?Oshawottalot 20:28, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Im on mobile and its hard to deal with having 4 edit conflicts when trying to post on the mod page and the writing is ant size EK (talk) 20:33, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Saloon bar protection

Morris, again? Tinribmancer (talk) 18:22, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Yep. Oxyaena Harass 18:24, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
ye just an angry peep EK (talk) 19:03, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

Don't know what to do with this

Is this Morris? It sounds like him. But it could also be someone who doesn't want to get banned, like Tdog1. Tinribmancer (talk) 13:14, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

too few edits to tell, i dont know yet. EK (talk) 14:30, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
If they aren't trolling or aren't acting like DMorris, then who cares?—HamburgerPlate Spinning-Burger.gif (talkstalk) 14:41, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
they are acting like dmorris its just not a good idea to act too soon with insufficient evidence. EK (talk) 14:42, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Unheard Netherlands

VVD are Centre-right liberals. I've never heard of Mark Rutte (their leader) endorsing anti-semite statements and I have no idea where you get the right-wing populism from.

Also, we have a page on PVV. Tinribmancer (talk) 16:13, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Islightly improved the wording to separate the VVD from the PVV and FvD. EK (talk) 16:18, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
I decided to do a bit of googling on this VVD thing (since this would've hit the news over here aswell if the dutch liberals supported that (knowing that the leader of the liberals, is also the prime minister of The Netherlands) and the only thing I'm finding, is that Ybeltje Berckmoes (who's on that list), is a former member of VVD. Tinribmancer (talk) 16:41, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
Well if you want to rewrite that part u can, I'm not an expert. EK (talk) 21:30, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
Done. Also, is clickbait, same for De (incase you would bump against an article from that site for future references). Tinribmancer (talk) 19:15, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

Portal icon

Ek, you made the "Nordic power and white nationalism" portal recently. Can you tell me how to make a portal icon?Jeh2ow Damn son! 17:12, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

I just drew it on a computer and resized it to fit. Use whichever program you find easiest since they are all similar. EK (talk) 19:33, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
Which program do you prefer?Jeh2ow Damn son! 00:00, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
I saw the portal icon and I believe it can use a retouch, especially with anti-aliasing. You should create portal icons in programs that can manipulate vector images (such as Adobe Illustrator or Inkscape). I vastly prefer .svg files because they can be scaled to any size and so they retain their resolution unlike raster graphics (which .png is). Most files in our portal icon category are .svgs. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 00:56, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
Most of us don't know how to use .svg programs. That's why I made my portal icons in 🎄Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano🎄Ask about our holiday specials! 01:04, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
I used microsoft paint, the school computer don't have anything for.svg anyway. EK (talk) 14:51, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Chicken Coop archive

If you want to end a case, it's better to end with a resolution and having everyone agree to an archive. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 18:46, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

it looked like nothing was going to be achieved ngl. And people were saying to archive it on the page itself. EK (talk) 18:49, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
Not only that, but nobs appeared and began to troll and stir up shit, potentially elevating a coop that appeared to have lost all steam. I agree with this prompt archive action. Cosmikdebris (talk) 18:55, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
I see. Though I need to see decisive action being taken here, something mods need to rely on whenever drama occurs in the Saloon Bar again. Right now, there doesn't seem to be a clear agreement, which is no good if I need to moderate the Saloon Bar for the same behavior. I'm hoping the coop itself tells people to calm down and treat others with respect, but I need some agreement just in case they don't. And for nobs, well, who cares about nobs? --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 19:08, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
you don't need coop approval to block a user for up to 3.6 months if necessary. You can also remove or hatnote topics yourself. I would suggest just taking whatever actions are necessary of your own initiative and letting people know this is unacceptable flaming. EK (talk) 19:14, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
My impression throughout my time here was that blocks for any recurring users have to be agreed on or else I might be accused of a powertrip or overstepping mod authority. I have modhatted threads before, and it was over the same topic, the 2020 primaries. I was accused by ikanreed of shuttering discussion. If there's a coop case agreeing on how to proceed, at least I can refer to a clear decision by the mob if I eventually have to exercise my own judgement. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 19:34, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
Ironically ikanreed doesn't even think that Trump is particularly missional.[1] Yes, we need agreement on a rules change, otherwise it's back to the coop every time there's an argument that gets out of hand. Bongolian (talk) 19:57, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
Y'all gonna ignore Shab's deliberate instigating? Oxyaena Harass 23:54, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── The rules already allow mods to unilaterally shut down problems, the issue is that nobody wants to do it because of peeps complaining afterwards. EK (talk) 20:36, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

I didn't remove the source

If you actually bothered to read the content I modified you would realize it was a case of poisoning the well by trying to portray all anarchists as anti-semitic. As for the "communist propaganda", I did not include that I only copy pasted what the user Godless Raven included. Tuxer (talk) 16:13, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

what you wrote is a common trope from communist propaganda, I'm aware that you didn't bother to cite your source. As for poisoning the well, it's a documented fact that proudhon was antisemitic, far more than others at the time so it's hardly undue. Plus I clarified in the article this stance was abandoned by modern anarchists and you removed what I wrote for no reason anyway. EK (talk) 17:19, 4 June 2020 (UTC)


Where are you? Oxyaena Harass 00:23, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

look for the new account with the Zee. EK (talk) 09:54, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Permaban me

This wiki is too much of a stressor for me and I`m fed up with it. Please desysop and permaban me. Oxyaena Harass 00:05, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Why do you take it so personally? You know you can edit, debate and enjoy RW without having to be worried about your user rights. AceModerator 05:39, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
You can't when you're a wanna-be dictator who cries wolf whenever confronted with responsibility, and that will be the tale of every anarchist because anarchism is inherently tied to a hypocrisy that they will never admit to. Anyhow, now that Oxy is gone, we can and should stop talking about her (which she enjoys and searches for around the wiki). — Godless Raven 🌹 Heretic 06:02, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
I think now, Raven, you should back off and just carry on as usual or risk appearing like you are reveling in it, AceModerator 06:09, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
I thought it was obvious that I am reveling in it tbh. But okay, let's stop. — Godless Raven 🌹 Heretic 06:27, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, people won't like that. Don't be a dick unless necessary. AceModerator 06:46, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
Grow the fuck up. I'm starting to believe you do have an obsession with her. Beyond Reality (talk) 12:53, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
No, actually, I am done with her. My goal is accomplished. No idea what you are talking about. — Godless Raven 🌹 Heretic 14:08, 12 June 2020 (UTC)


Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 17:19, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

Just to be clear, Spud and LeftyGreenMario are moderators. Blocking and promoting Godless Raven were moderator actions.--Hastur! (talk) 17:25, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
Will LGM be blocked for editwarring? — Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 17:26, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
Probably not, because AFAIK she has doesn't have a history of edit warring and is in good standing with the community, as can be evidenced by her election as moderator--Hastur! (talk) 17:50, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
In short, if you have the anarchist mob behind you, you can editwar. Gotcha. — Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 17:50, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
RationalWiki is and always has been a collaborative project. Or a mobocracy, if you prefer. Although few of its users are anarchists--Hastur! (talk) 17:52, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
Berlusconi could've used that tactic, too. "It is okay for me to loot the public treasure as long as I am popular." This is the logic you are applying here. Now, if you actually believe that and defend that, that's fine. I just disagree, I expect mods to comply with the same rules as someone who is constantly harassed for minor things (like me). — Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 17:54, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
I have to admit, argumentum ad Silvio Berlusconi is marginally better than making Hitler comparisons--Hastur! (talk) 18:01, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Thank you @Hastur. Do you mind answering my Discord DMs before I get silenced again? — Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk 🌹 Flag of Europe.svg 18:14, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

I am new to Discord and I don't see your DMs anymore but if I recall correctly they said something about me watching you get pushed off the wiki and doing nothing. I am not doing nothing, the person with the biggest hate-on for you (Oxyeana) is being dealt with, I've actually defended you and your edits as have other editors you just consistently choose an unhealthy attitude when your edits are challenged. If you look at the discussion on the Anarchy article, for example, you'll see that a number of editors support trimming the fancruft. If you create a draft of the article, either in draft space or user space, and propose it to the community there's a good chance that we'll vote for the new draft if we feel it's better than the old one. Running around saying "coop me!" and evading blocks is not endearing you to anyone. Yes, it's frustrating when your mainspace edits get reverted. I've been there, believe me. Back when I had more energy I made a good few mainspace edits. Once an article I had written was deemed not missional and it was threatened with deletion. This made me angry. I expressed my anger and it got me nowhere. Ultimately what did happen was that the community took the effort to reshape the article into something more appropriate for RationalWiki. This is a process, do you understand? A collaborative effort. You can choose to make it painful for everybody involved or you can work with the community towards a shared goal, namely our mission.--Hastur! (talk) 18:30, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
Good post! --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario!(Mod) 18:35, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
yes now with luck this is resolved finally. EK (talk) 20:20, 16 June 2020 (UTC)



I apologize if yesterday I responded at a bad time and/or made you feel uncomfortable. That was wrong of me. My intent then as it is now is to resolve the dispute(s), not to inflame them. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 01:12, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Reverting my talk page comments on a mods talk page and saying the reason was, and I quote, "neither of them should speak" (reference to me and Raven) was very cringe and unhelpful to resolving the dispute. After you decided to stop Raven editing the draft that many users had encouraged him to work on, by you edit warring there and having it mod locked, I think it became pretty clear that the only resolution you will accept is total compliance with your wishes. But then there are your previous actions of editing thru protection to carry on an edit war, desysoping me out of process, bringing me to the coop to try and have me desysoped for a simple enforcement action on obvious site rules, and then claiming in the coop that you are not bound by the rules unless a mod tells you otherwise. And this is just what you did to me for trying to defuse your attacks on Raven, you have been outright worse to him with repeated blocking, edit warring, verbal abuse, and so on. I can't honestly tell if this is just what you always do to get an article to be how you like, or whether it's some personal animosity. However, your apology doesn't cover what I'm upset about if you follow, it's more than just a response, it's a week long campaign of intimidation to try and get me to give up, because after all the dispute is resolved by getting rid of one side, and you have at no point allowed any compromise so far. EK (talk) 09:01, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Chicken coop

A case involving you has been raised at the Chicken Coop. Feel free to comment. The Crow (row row fight the power) 18:51, 26 June 2020 (UTC)


An article you wrote is being voted on--Hastur! (talk) 02:00, 27 June 2020 (UTC)


You've been nominated to the RationalMedia Foundation election. Please accept or decline; if you accept, you may wish to campaign. You were nominated by User:Burrito. Bongolian (talk) 07:32, 14 July 2020 (UTC)