RationalWiki:Chicken coop/Archive129

GrammarCommie

Bad faith removal of ongoing discussions [1], doubled [2] and tripled down. [3] Unjustly removed my sysop powers more than once. [4] UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 21:02, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Let's discuss here first, ok? CorruptUser 21:06, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

A coop case is preferable due to GC's utterly third-rate behavior as an RW admin. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 21:10, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

What am I being charged with again? ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 21:12, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

This discussion was moved here from RW:ATIM.

He kept deleting the collapse templates, what did he expect to happen? ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 21:11, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Let’s keep this in one place. Christopher (talk) 21:13, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

GrammarCommie, your feelings alone aren't grounds for collapsing entire discussions. Period. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 21:14, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

UShistoryanalyzer, could you try to be less annoying? GC overstepped, but I’m sure we can all sympathise with his actions. Christopher (talk) 21:16, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Fine. I just don't think there was any good basis for GrammarCommie's desysoping and blocking of me over mere Saloon bar discussions. So along as everything is appropriate, he can ignore it for all I care if he has a disdain for my posts. Do I go around collapsing and removing his discussion posts on purely emotional grounds? No. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 21:19, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

[EC]For the record, GC also blocked UShistoryanalyzer although this (along with everything else) was quickly reversed: https://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/block&page=User%3AUShistoryanalyzer. I don’t see the need for any further action, no harm has been done. Christopher (talk) 21:21, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Because someone here was online and reversed it. Had this happened in the middle of the night, would any of us had known to step in? CorruptUser 21:23, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

[EC] I definitely appreciate Christopher stepping in. This, however, does not vindicate GrammarCommie. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 21:27, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Can we extend UShistoryanalyzer's topic ban to talk pages? He just seems to be here to cause trouble. Plutocow (talk) 21:25, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

I... actually think topic bans should automatically extend to talk pages, with a possible exception of your own personal space or essay or whatever. CorruptUser 21:26, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

He hasn’t really done anything wrong here, just started a few more tame arguments in the saloon. Christopher (talk) 21:28, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Being dumb in the Bar isn't worthy of a topic ban, I think. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 21:29, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Looking into it, his topic ban extends to Essays/Drafts, but NOT Saloon Bar or his own talk page. Huh. Technically USHA didn't violate anything. CorruptUser 21:31, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

I don't believe my topic ban extends to essays. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 21:31, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

[EC]The rules for this topic ban, and topic bans in general, were very hastily put together. If UShistoryanalyzer had played his cards right I’m certain he could’ve at least got a narrowing in scope in that recent ATiM vote on lifting it. Christopher (talk) 21:34, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Really, as long as this user keeps his political dumbness outside of main space, I don’t see why anyone should care what he does. He’s not racist or hateful or even really rude. If he wants to talk in the Bar, let him. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 21:40, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

While I would differ with the assessment of me being politically dumb, you got a good point there. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 21:43, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

So is this actually going anywhere? Because I have a cat I'm trying to get adopted later today so I'm not going to be around after a few more hours or so. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 21:47, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Oh yes, the point of this coop is to punish you for excessive abuses of power. The first point is regarding your unneeded collapsing/removal of discussions, and the second relates to desysoping/blocking me. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 21:56, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

I was just re-adding the collapses. I honestly forgot who added them to begin with. I'm sorry that your shitposts are indistigishable from trolling, maybe you should work on that. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 22:04, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Facts are shitpost trolling? 🙄 UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 22:07, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘

"Alternative Facts" are.

Oh, and congrats on the cat, GC! Getting a mutt or a specific breed? CorruptUser 22:10, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

UShistoryanalzer is a trouble maker and I think it highly likely he will keep trouble making until he goes the way of Raven. A more aggressive approach with them will avoid lots of pointless drama. ShabiDOO 22:19, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

A main coon/siamese mix, we think. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 22:20, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Maine Coons, only cat big enough to take on a NYC rat... CorruptUser 22:23, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

She's more siamese than main coon, to be honest. She's a sweet girl, even if she can be grumpy at times. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 22:31, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Oh Jesus. Fuck off Usha. — Oxyaena ^Harass 22:27, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

edit waring doesnt usually qualify for a coop case AMassiveGay (talk) 22:31, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

No, but removing my sysop powers and blocking me over fine discussion posts does warrant a coop case. And GrammarCommie needs to be punished. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 22:34, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm not letting you Dom me, you aren't my type. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 23:22, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

In your case, a punishment is absolutely necessary. At least a pi month block will do. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 23:25, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

"He hasn’t really done anything wrong here, just started a few more tame arguments in the saloon"

Disagree. UShit is intellectually dishonest. That's what's wrong here. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 00:15, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Those discussing cats are taking this with the appropriate level of seriousness. The saloon posts are painfully easy to ignore, and the lame coop is lame. Per everything above, this is not, in fact, going anywhere. 𝒮𝑒𝓇𝑒𝓃𝑒 ^talk 00:38, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Intellectually dishonest? Then provide some sources to disprove my claims in those Saloon bar discussions, LeftyGreenMario. And what's wrong here is GrammarCommie's abuse of power. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 00:49, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I've long since learned to avoid giving UShistoryanalyzer's nonsense any attention, but other people still do, so he will be disruptive until something is done about it. Plutocow (talk) 00:51, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I tried. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 01:03, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Well, only with claims while lacking sources. OTOH, I almost always provide necessary links. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 01:04, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Oh, and if anyone else wants me to back up my accusations I'll do it. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 01:05, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ I think USHA is taking this the least seriously of all. Is there any need to drag this out further? 𝒮𝑒𝓇𝑒𝓃𝑒 ^talk 01:25, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm hardly taking this seriously, hence my initiating of this coop case in the first place to take action against GrammarCommie for sysop power abuses? What a load of fucking bollocks! UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 01:34, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I am pleased to announce that the cat was successfully adopted! ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 02:10, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Congratulations GrammarCommie! Now please cease your off-topic announcements in this coop case. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 02:13, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Congratulations! Cause for celebration. 𝒮𝑒𝓇𝑒𝓃𝑒 ^talk 02:15, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

How long did you know the cat before adopting them? --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 02:19, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm wasn't adopting the cat, I was finding them a home. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 02:27, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I don't object to your news about your cat, I object to it being posted here and causing a distraction. Relocate this segment to the Saloon bar, please. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 02:29, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

It goes to establishing my character. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 02:31, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Which you now attempt to redeem after unjustly removing my sysop powers more than once. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 02:36, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Thinking about also getting a sea lion along? --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 02:38, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Nah, sea lions are lot of work to take care of. Always interrupting when you're Pardon me, but could you please show me one time this has happened?CorruptUser 05:16, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

trying to talk. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 03:25, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

But what will that cat do without a furry companion that can possibly teach her to swim? --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 05:25, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I think you might be confusing sea lions with otters?CorruptUser 05:27, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

When u think about it, every animal that has hair and lives in the water is basically the same. Which reminds me. Do whales have hair???? 💙 ASELA^ಮಾತು 💙 07:20, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Calling Dr. Googleit.[5] Bongolian (talk) 07:31, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Oh, Analyzer has joined scrooge in the "laughably frivolous coops" act? Well, we all know how that ended for the other guy...-Flandres (talk) 09:05, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

*yawn*. This isn't worth a coop case. I formally reprimand GC for not following procedure for sysop removal, please don't remove saloon discussions if it's an actual discussion, use collapse or trollcollapse instead. This isn't a fucking coop case, this is an ATIM case at best. If you want to talk about policy related use of trollcollapse, do it somewhere else. Techpriest (talk) 09:10, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Agreed, move this to the ATiM page. Monet ^Ye 12:58, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

No. Do not move this to the ATM page. Just close this Coop case. There's really nothing to discuss. I support giving GrammarCommie an official slap on the wrist and a "Don't do it again" and let that be the end of it. Spud (talk) 13:36, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Close the coop case? Too early. Not until there's a vote, buddy. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 15:55, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

No one is going to vote to let you Dom me. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 15:58, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

No, we should have a vote... on UShistoryanalyzer. Plutocow (talk) 15:59, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Learn to pay attention, pal. This is about punishing GrammarCommie, not me. A coop case warrants a formal vote. And what is GrammarCommie so afraid of here? Hmm... UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 16:01, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

@Plutocow I dunno, I can get kind of extreme as a Dom... ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 16:07, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

[EC] @Techpriest Oh, this doesn't look like a coop case? Well guess who trolled this entire section with off-topic announcements into a clown proceeding! And LeftyGreenMario insisted that the off-topic remarks stay here rather than moved to the Saloon bar. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 16:09, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

"A coop case warrants a formal vote." Not true. If you look at the coop archive there are a lot of cases that were closed without a vote. If the majority of the participants here agree that this case doesn't warrant a vote (including myself), then it can be archived and closed per standard practice. —cosmikdebris ^talk stalk 16:16, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

This coop is bullshit. CG should be lightly admonished and that's it. Close this coop case. UShistoryanalyzer is a fucking trouble making menace and it's only a matter of time until he gets worse enough to justify their own coop. ShabiDOO 17:11, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Agreed. Slap with a trout and be done. CorruptUser 17:13, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Trouting complete. We cool, bros? CorruptUser 17:16, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Yah but I'm also going to say how little help the "well they didn't break sysop tools" was. Told you that that defense amounts to time ultimately being wasted on this. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 18:55, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

OK, let's close this up. Bongolian (talk) 19:04, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I also do not believe this needs a vote as almost all the opinions expressed only go in one direction. But if it does - ho hum. It should be a quick landslide.Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 19:36, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I don't understand the contempt everyone else has for an official vote. If everyone's so sure the result will be acquittal, then there's also no need for an objection. GrammarCommie's "oH nO i cAnT leT UShistoryanalzer dOm mE!11!1!1" bullshit excuse is bullshit. Feels like I'm among the only people left retaining common sense these days... UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 20:03, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Compromise — We hold a vote on GC, but we also hold a vote on you, and you accept any sanctions that are dealt to you as a result. Do you agree with that? Plutocow (talk) 20:06, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I didn't abuse my sysop powers. GrammarCommie did. I don't vainly collapse/remove GrammarCommie's comments (nor entire discussions for that matter) merely because I disagree with them. GrammarCommie did. Is is so hard for you to understand that minuscule amount, Plutocow? UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 20:10, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Votes, especially block votes are long, tiring and generally annoying to deal with. That said, you aren't doing exactly a great job at convincing me that you're not worth that effort... frivolous coop cases might not be worthy of blocks on its own in my eyes but insofar as block votes setting up go, they are a great way to whittle down my patience and hesitation at wanting to set those up. Anyway, I'll be voting against any sanctions on GC for this. I've already slapped GC on the wrist for this stuff. Also the "ATIM at best" was kinda a broad statement. I see no value in moving this to ATIM. The discussion has been held. You have received your answer. GC has gotten a slap on the wrist and a stern reminder to not do that stuff in the future. If you want to set up a frivolous vote, go ahead but keep in mind that I wouldn't mind helping people in boomeranging that back at you with a vote on you if you pull that stunt. Techpriest (talk) 20:13, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

@UShistoryanalyzer I had no idea you lived such a sheltered life. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 20:16, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

[EC] Learn to stay on topic, buddy boy. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 20:20, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

This coop still going? Jesus fuckAMassiveGay (talk) 20:15, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

[EC] Yes, you got a problem? UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 20:20, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

If you continue to make an ass out of yourself in this coop, I will start a vote on you. You have been warned. Plutocow (talk) 20:45, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Vague/silly accusation, deflection, veering off-topic, bad faith. Ah, the typical and expected traits of Plutocow. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 20:49, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

you know the coop is meant as a last resort right? not for whiny pricks aggrieved at the injustice of something fixed in 5 seconds? why we all sill here? AMassiveGay (talk) 20:57, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

GrammarCommie needs punishment for his abuses of power. And he's a repeat offender. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 20:59, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

i mean, where do do you think you are going with all this? what do think any kind of vote wil get you? or is reading the room something else you not good at? AMassiveGay (talk) 21:01, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Ok, allow be to bash you over the head with the ol' Clue by Four.

Being right won't help you if you aren't liked. CorruptUser 21:04, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘I've said this before, but it should be reiterated. The mob makes the rules, the rules do not force the mob. Rules lawyering is a poor strategy because of this. The rules are there to give guidance about behavior. Bongolian (talk) 21:54, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

So is the mob going to let @UShistoryanalyzer "punish" me? I feel like that would be awkward if we did it via mediawiki... ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 22:19, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I obviously can't speak for the mob, but I think that one take-home message from this is that UShistoryanalyzer should be more reticent about opening coop cases. I don't think there's significant interest in punishing you other than the trout slap that you already received. Bongolian (talk) 01:19, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Voting on UShistoryanalyzer

I make a motion to declare this null and void. There was no proper procedure and official preceding discussion in a case against me. Until that happens, this is a petty case of whataboutism. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 21:12, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

This is a mobocracy, not a bureaucracy. Plutocow (talk) 21:29, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

π days block

Yay

1. In case stricter measures don't pass. Plutocow (talk) 21:09, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
2. A short break is fine. May extend if he comes back again annoying. CorruptUser 21:12, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
3. USHistoryanalzer does not create "mild problems" and ignoring them doesn't work. They are a pointless shit-stirrer who just creates grief. This will definitely not be the last coop of theirs. ShabiDOO 21:27, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

   Why not? Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 21:41, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

   It's for the best. Although I'd rather archive this whole thing. GeeJayK (talk) 21:44, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

4. As a survivor of sexual assault, he can get fucked. — Oxyaena ^Harass 04:25, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Nay

1. Frivolous coop cases aren't blockworthy. Techpriest (talk) 21:36, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
2. This shouldn’t have been a coop, it shouldn’t have had a vote, and now there is a vote nothing should pass. The coop itself is all he’s done wrong. Christopher (talk) 21:44, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
3. I have changed my mind. I will not endorse any part of this illegitimate and abusive proceeding. See the sysoprevoke section as to why. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 22:12, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
   1. Just like Duce, I changed my mind. Per Techpriest. Still supporting blowing this to hell though. GeeJayK(talk) 22:23, 21 July 2021 (UTC) Actually, decided not to vote one way or the other. GeeJayK (talk) 22:41, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
4. As much as frivolous coop cases can get you banned, does a mild first time incident call for anything? Gale5050 (talk) 02:05, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

   User does not have the required three months. My bad. Also, this is not the first time UShistoryanalyzer has done this. Plutocow (talk) 02:10, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

π weeks block

Yay

1. In case stricter measures don't pass. Honestly deserves this for the rape victim comment alone. Plutocow (talk) 21:09, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
2. USHistoryanalzer does not create "mild problems" and ignoring them doesn't work. They are a pointless shit-stirrer who just creates grief. This will definitely not be the last coop of theirs. ShabiDOO 21:27, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
3. As a survivor of sexual assault, he can go fuck himself. — Oxyaena ^Harass 04:21, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Nay

1. Frivolous coop cases aren't blockworthy. Techpriest (talk) 21:36, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
2. Too long for user who is just mildly annoying. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 21:42, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
3. Christopher (talk) 21:44, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

π months block

Yay

1. Scrooge got the same block length for starting frivolous coops. Plutocow (talk) 21:09, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
2. USHistoryanalzer does not create "mild problems" and ignoring them doesn't work. They are a pointless shit-stirrer who just creates grief. This will definitely not be the last coop of theirs. ShabiDOO 21:27, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
3. Already detailed my reasoning elsepage. — Oxyaena ^Harass 04:20, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Nay

1. Frivolous coop cases aren't blockworthy. Techpriest (talk) 21:36, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
2. Way too long. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 21:42, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
3. Christopher (talk) 21:44, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
4. Too long. CorruptUser 21:45, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Permaban

Yay

1. He's a troll, is affiliated with trolls, and never makes any attempt to learn from his mistakes. Plutocow (talk) 21:09, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
2. USHistoryanalzer does not create "mild problems" and ignoring them doesn't work. They are a pointless shit-stirrer who just creates grief. This will definitely not be the last coop of theirs. ShabiDOO 21:27, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
3. We permabanned UT and LT for similar offences. See no reason why we need to break this streak now. Just another garden-variety right-wing shitposter. — Oxyaena ^Harass 21:48, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Nay

1. Frivolous coop cases aren't blockworthy. Techpriest (talk) 21:36, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
2. Absurd. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 21:42, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
3. Remember how this started? Christopher (talk) 21:44, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
4. Way too long considering the crimes. CorruptUser 21:45, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
5. Wait until the user break the rules. Being annoying is still not banworthy. GeeJayK (talk) 21:51, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
6. Vote no, because I'm expecting more coop cases to make my case against this guy more persuasive and hope one day we ditch this "he didn't break the rules" shit that was used to defend the most contentious trolls. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 21:59, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

   I'm the survivor of sexual assault. He can go fuck himself. Ban this asshole. — Oxyaena ^Harass 04:22, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Invalid

1. Where are we, Cuba? A case is brought against one user and vote is held against the accuser? Why does RW allow disruptive users to polute the ecosystem? Dutchbag (talk) 21:34, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

   User is ineligible to vote

   Whoever did this, sign your post. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 21:43, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Sysoprevoke

Yay

1. So he would be easier to discipline. Plutocow (talk) 21:09, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
2. USHistoryanalzer does not create "mild problems" and ignoring them doesn't work. They are a pointless shit-stirrer who just creates grief. This will definitely not be the last coop of theirs. ShabiDOO 21:27, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
3. — Oxyaena ^Harass 21:48, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Nay

1. No power abuse has taken place. Techpriest (talk) 21:36, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
2. This vote literally just failed. Why are we doing this all over again? Double jeopardy is stupid. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 21:44, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
3. Christopher (talk) 21:45, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
4. At least wait until somthing new happen. No constitutional hardball, please. GeeJayK (talk) 21:46, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
5. Waste of time Monet ^Ye 08:55, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Invalid

1. Has not abused powers. CorruptUser 21:04, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

   lol. You really want to draw this person out long for the detriment of this community? You did this defense once. We got this stupid waste of time coop case. Want more? Sure, stick by the rules while nothing gets done. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 21:19, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

   You know what? No, you may be right. I won't vote to remove USHA's mop, but at the same time, I don't see them having used it responsibly. So I will abstain. CorruptUser 21:21, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

   You should vote no on the basis that this is a ridiculous and probably abusive vote since it’s taking place in the same day as the last sysoprevoke vote failed. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 21:49, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Goat

So stupid. Starting the same exact vote for the same exact sanction on the same fucking day the last one failed strikes me as a blatant and abusive attempt to harass the user in question by wasting their time. Unfortunately, it's also wasting my time and the community's time. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 22:09, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Much of UShistoryanalyzer's asshole behavior today happened after the vote had closed. Plus, he got himself into this situation. If he realizes how frustrating this is, maybe he won't try to do the same to other people for a stupid reason. Plutocow (talk) 22:12, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I take this as an admission of guilt. Trying to harass an asshole with coop proceedings is still harassment. This proceeding is illegitimate. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 22:13, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

It's not harassment when he initiated the procedings, I warned him I would start a vote if he kept up this behavior, and he ignored me. You shouldn't defend someone who unironically compares themselves to a rape victim just because people are tired of their shit. Plutocow (talk) 22:16, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Extend topic ban to talk pages

Yay

1. This should've been the case from the beginning. Plutocow (talk) 21:09, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
2. USHistoryanalzer does not create "mild problems" and ignoring them doesn't work. They are a pointless shit-stirrer who just creates grief. This will definitely not be the last coop of theirs. ShabiDOO 21:27, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
3. — Oxyaena ^Harass 04:20, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Nay

1. User was already banned from talkpages relating to their topic ban? This changes nothing, read what the topic ban actually entails before you vote for a null motion like this. Techpriest (talk) 21:36, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

   He can still post in the Saloon Bar about the topics he is banned from. Plutocow (talk) 21:38, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

   I see no problem with that? The Bar is for open discussion and from what I can tell he isn't blatantly trolling or shitting up the bar. Just because he posts dumb shit doesn't warrant a ban from the Bar. For fucks sake, people post random youtube vids in the bar constantly and it annoys the fuck out of me, yet I don't propose banning every youtube poster from the bar because of that? Techpriest (talk) 21:42, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

   Those YouTube videos are at least a contribution to the community and there's zero problem unless the videos get excessive. This is not a good equivalence. Also while not blatantly trolling they debate in bad faith, and there's no good ending to tolerate these kinds of people. You ignore them, and their talking points have no response which makes it seem like they made a good argument. You could engage with them, but you fall into their little game of intellectual dishonesty and you spend time telling them to get better sources or read their sources rather than gaining any new information. You could engage with them by simply calling them out but they'll claim you're being rude and have no good response either. I mean this is practically trolling at this point, but it's not as obvious as that earlier guy, but the result is the same. Short of restriciting their actions, you will lose against bad faith debaters. People will notice the bad faith here and then it'll get enough steam by enough people it blows up into a coop case like this. But, he didn't break the rules or didn't abuse his mop which was given by a guy who had a record of poor judgement on user rights, so we should keep him here and constantly playing this little bad faith debate game? --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 21:55, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

2. No reason. Hasn’t been disruptive, just stupid. If we block people from the bar for being stupid, I’d be gone, and so would most of the rest of you. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 21:45, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

   This coop case created by him has been nothing butabsolute disruption. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 21:55, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

   That has nothing to do with whether he gets banned from the Bar and talkpages. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 22:10, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

   He would only be banned from talking about US history and politics. Plutocow (talk) 22:14, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

3. Christopher (talk) 21:45, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
4. Disruption is not sufficient as yet for this. Bongolian (talk) 22:03, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Goat

Don't say I didn't warn you. Plutocow (talk) 21:03, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

UShistoryanalyzer’s only crime here is extending a coop case unnecessarily. A vote on anything doesn’t help that, I don’t want this going on for 7 days. Christopher (talk) 21:06, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

He consented to the vote by continuing to be an ass even after I warned him to stop. He only has himself to blame for this. Plutocow (talk) 21:09, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

[EC] I did not consent to a vote (lacking a proper preceding discussion) on banning me, you third-rate liar. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 21:11, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

🍿 --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 21:10, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I said I would start a vote if you continued your asshattery, and you did. You should know by now that I don't fuck around. Plutocow (talk) 21:13, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Should we also have one on GC, so we can settle this with a 19 to 1 "no punishment" vote? CorruptUser 21:13, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

(EC)Don't we have to wait 24 hours? GeeJayK (talk) 21:14, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Since start of coop case, I believe. Which it was almost exactly. CorruptUser 21:15, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Oh and we're still doing the "UShit didn't break any rules" song and dance? --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 21:17, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Me? I won't vote to ban someone for being an annoying twat. However, that doesn't mean I have to defend them. Silence is Violence, and I feel like assaulting everyone with my non-words! CorruptUser 21:20, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I've suggested this more than once. Can we vote for iban UShistoryanalyzer and Plutocow? On ATIM, and not here, if possible. GeeJayK (talk) 21:22, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Why? Only one of us is a troll. Plutocow (talk) 21:24, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I’d vote for that if it were raised in ATiM, definitely not something that should be part of this coop. Christopher (talk) 21:26, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘UShistoryanalyzer is going to be cooped eventually, might as well get it out of the way now. Plutocow (talk) 21:27, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Atim vote on removing sysop failed literally today. The fact that you’re doing it again is stupid and probably abusive. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 21:46, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I expect it to fail again, but for the coop vote I believe all options should be on the table. Plutocow (talk) 21:48, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Plutocow should not be allowed to troll this coop case I started against GrammarCommie. What is this, some second-rate analogy of "blame-the-rape-victim"? UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 21:28, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Are you honestly comparing yourself to a rape victim, because that totally doesn't make light of rape at all or anything. Honestly, I don't even need to comment, you are your own worst enemy. Plutocow (talk) 21:31, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Sure, you can try and pretend that deflecting from your trolling and (simply put) utter asshole behavior will erase other people's memories. But it won't, and your big lies remain big lies. UShistoryanalyzer (talk) 21:36, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

(EC), Pluto, supposing he gets blocked he probably won't get banned, at least no right now. And when he comes back you guys will fight again. I'm not saying that other uses didn't have problems with him as well (just see Flandres), but I think both of you take your fights on a personal, which is disruptive for the whole community. I think maybe other mods and sysops can handle it better than you. Sorry if you feel like I'm gaslighting you or something, it's not my intention. GeeJayK (talk) 21:29, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

That’s not the right way to go about things, seeing as this started because he was the victim of something no one really cares about, and he’s made sure everyone is already sick of the coop case. It’s the worst time to raise the issue. Christopher (talk) 21:30, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

(Ec) yeah

UShit: Blah blah blah Confederate statues honor Southern Heritage

Someone like Plutocow: Uh no, look how many statues are erected during Civil Rights yada yada.

UShit: Uh no. Townhall and Heritage Foundation disagrees with you and PragerU told me this and this.

someone: Oh god those are horrible sources

UShit: but they cite facts!!! Facts don't care about your feelings

Someone: oh god you're an idiot, sources can misinterpret stats and leave out important cotnext, yada yada

UShit: *moves on to another thread, having learned nothing*

Should we really topic ban both for these exchanges. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 21:31, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

(EC)(EC)That being said, I don't support the actual iban. I support archiving this whole thing. GC won't be punished, people are cooped for being annoying, like Scrooge was, not because they broke abstract rules. GeeJayK (talk) 21:32, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Vote stays open. It was literally started at 24 hours and one minute after opening the case, meeting the coop's requirement. I will be voting against every block however. USH has not done anything flagrantly wrong in my eyes. That said, now he gets to experience the sheer annoyance of having a block vote in the coop. I warned him that if he kept up the bullshittery about wanting to punish GC he'd whittle down my patience and here we are. Techpriest (talk) 21:34, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

This coop case tells me they did do something flagrantly wrong. Just look at that and ATIM involving this person. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 21:35, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

All this coop case tells me is that they have a punishment boner, but unlike the other wikicops we've met he isn't an overactive one (yet) who abuses his mop to get what he wants. Frivolous coop cases are not blockworthy on their own. Make a more solid case if you need grounds to have USH banned. Techpriest (talk) 21:38, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Community upkeep is the big one. It's a priority over being a stickler for the rules. This user is clearly unhealthy for the community just from the length and energy of a coop case they created, even worse than the shorter swiftly-archived cases by another earlier troll, and you are frankly accomdating this by narrowly focusing on these rules and power abuse rather than what's good for the community or not. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 21:42, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Then the community can decide. I've always been a stickler for the rules (with flexibility) and USH has in no way broken our rules. The closest rulebreaker is GC who we already gave a wristslap. Techpriest (talk) 21:44, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Sure I'm not going to dispute the vote but if the mob thirsts for battle of attrition and if you personally desire to eventually treat this slowly growing disease then so be it. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 22:18, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I just think people should be banned after they do something ban-worthy, not before. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 22:36, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Fair enough. I wasn't thinking about an indef ban either (though I think that'll eventually develop if this keeps up; who knows we might either get UShit to shut up or stop being a twit like RWRW but former is more likely and best outcome if we take zero action) but at least with a pi days block minimum (and expecting no unblocks) at least something can be controlled a bit better. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 22:41, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

People, this isn't even the first time UShistoryanalyzer tried to start a frivolous coop! Plutocow (talk) 22:03, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I don't expect people to have my levels of patience and politeness (which I see more as a subproduct of my lifelong low self-esteem), but don't you two think you're being too sulfurous over this? GeeJayK (talk) 22:35, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Me, and not the guy who compared this to being a rape victim? Plutocow (talk) 22:37, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

No, both of you. Christopher (talk) 22:38, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes, UShistoryanalyzer trying to coop was absurd, as I've said before, but let's not resort to whataboutism. I'm talking about all the effort you're putting into this coop. GeeJayK (talk) 22:40, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Tell me why UShistoryanalyzer should not be banned for at least three days based on the rape victim comment alone. Plutocow (talk) 22:41, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

It's a hell of a comment sure, but let's see what other people think about that. I think he wasn't literally comparing himself as a rape victim as opposed to feeling overall persecuted, but is being an idiot bringing up such a thing in the first place when he could just compare himself to Gallileo or gripe how it is so Conservapedian of us how we're treating him. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 22:46, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

It'd be one thing if he apologized for it, but he seems intent on dying on that hill as well. Plutocow (talk) 22:48, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm the survivor of sexual assault. Ban him. — Oxyaena ^Harass 04:24, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

After reading through the coop, I've come to conclusion that USHA is GR level of rules lawyering twat. I wouldn't be surprised if their toxicity towards the community will get them banned eventually, but this coop is just silly. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 07:45, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

This shitstain compared internet drama to being a rape victim. As an actual rape victim, fucking ban him. It's outrageous that people here are defending this fuck. — Oxyaena ^Harass 08:13, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Archive Immediately and be Done with this Silliness

Yay

1. Why is anybody still bothering with this nonsense? 𝒮𝑒𝓇𝑒𝓃𝑒 ^talk 21:56, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
2. GeeJayK (talk) 21:56, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
3. Christopher (talk) 21:59, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
4. Absolutely. Hell, the stupid attempt at double jeopardy makes this farce illegitimate in my eyes. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 22:06, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
5. That's what I said before the vote started. Bongolian (talk) 23:51, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
6. This should have been archived mere hours after it began, when it became clear Analyzer had no case. Anything else is just feeding the troll at this point. And while I sympathize with those of us who want to discipline an incessant nuisance...well, we've all dealt with this type of user before. Analyzer burns bridges pretty much every time he posts, and never learns from his behavior. He will provide you with plenty of opportunities for a more substantial case later. Let's just move on from this one.-Flandres (talk) 01:19, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
7. What good could come out of this? Gale5050 (talk) 02:01, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

   Not entirely sure if this is an actual vote, but if it was, this vote would be ineligible. Plutocow (talk) 02:04, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

   @Plutocow His first edit appears to have been in March. What criterion doesn't he meet? 𝒮𝑒𝓇𝑒𝓃𝑒 ^talk 02:49, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

8. Monet ^Ye 06:47, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
9. Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 07:27, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
10. AMassiveGay (talk) 08:21, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
11. Flandres put it perfectly. Having started this waste of the community's time and energy will no doubt be one of the minor points against USHistoryanalyzer when his Day of Reckoning finally comes. But that day's not here yet. Spud (talk) 12:32, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
12. —cosmikdebris ^talk stalk 13:46, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
13. Yarp. CorruptUser 18:41, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
14. Derp. 主要行事月 (talk) 19:55, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Nay

1. People want the vote, people should have the vote. UShistoryanalyzer should learn that his actions have consequences, and this isn't even the first frivolous coop case he tried to start (he started one on me, for crying out loud!) Plutocow (talk) 22:00, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Goat

• In the event both this and the pi days block pass, it’ll probably just cause more pointless drama about whether the vote is legitimate. Perhaps going from the “victim” to receiving a coop vote because of stupid bickering between him and Plutocow will teach UShistoryanalyzer a lesson. Christopher (talk) 22:12, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Moral of the story? Do not be annoying. I might change my mind in a new coop in the future. GeeJayK (talk) 22:26, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
• I have no idea what is going on here, and don't have time to find out until morning. But as stupid as this all seems on the outlook, coop cases involving votes shouldn't be summarily and prematurely archived except under exceptional circumstances. Enough people seem to think there is an issue here, that it should be allowed to go for the minimum voting period. I've lost track, is that 2 or 3 days nowadays or something? It's been just few hours thus far. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 22:32, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
  • It’s 7 days, unfortunately. Christopher (talk) 22:37, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
    • This is at least a protest vote for those of us who think this whole thing is stupid. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation}<

  Strong support for this option is what I would consider strong evidence that people do not think there is an issue here. Frivolous coops have been swiftly dealt with in the past. I see no particular reason why a drawn out, silly coop should be treated any more seriously than a short, silly coop. All it's being drawn out means is that there is extra silliness. 𝒮𝑒𝓇𝑒𝓃𝑒 ^talk 22:53, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

  Truth is, it should have been archived yesterday. We had 24 hours and now we're dealing with the consequences. GeeJayK (talk) 22:55, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

  Yeah, if this had been archived by a mod before the 1 day moratorium for votes I wouldn't have any issue. This case is just silly all over. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 23:04, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

• In the future I reccomend a straw vote to determine if people really want to take some sort of action, which in this case they apparently do not.Ariel31459 (talk) 04:02, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ I love the fact that almost no one here gives a flying fuck about UShit's absolutely disgusting comment comparing himself to a rape victim. As the actual survivor of sexual assault, it really makes me question my involvement here that fucking "muh rules" are considered more important than fucking common decency. — Oxyaena ^Harass 16:21, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Because what he did came across as whiny whining about not getting his way, not as trying to de-legitimize rape victims or anything of that sort. This isn't a "safe space", people are assholes. CorruptUser 17:28, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Regardless of his intentions, de-legitimizing rape victims is what he did, and he got pissy when I called him out for this and still hasn't apologized. Any user who didn't have sysop rights would be banned for at least three weeks for making such an offensive comment, he only gets to stay because one person made the ill-advised decision to give him sysop rights. We shouldn't be more focused on protecting right-wing concern trolls than protecting rape victims. Plutocow (talk) 17:34, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Only because if someone's first few actions are to whine about bullshit or exaggerate their victimhood, they aren't likely to be a useful addition. I don't see where USHA has done much more than whine or promote nonsense, which is why even though I'm one of those "muh rules" dudes, I'm not really going out of my way to defend USHA.

As for de-legitimizing rape victims, a "no possibly-insensitive hyperbole, ever" rule is a bit too clunky, unless we want to ban 90% of the people on the planet. Call someone "fascist"? Banned. A "nazi"? Gone. CorruptUser 18:08, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

That's a poor comparison since calling someone a facsist doesn't hurt any marginalized groups. Things like making light of rape should be banned. Plutocow (talk) 18:18, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

If we make "Nazi" a meaningless term, that impacts those such as the Uighurs who are being herded into camps as we speak. While the Chinese aren't committing mass extermination (yet (that we know of)), it's a fair comparison to compare the Uighur camps to the Nazi death camps. If "Nazi" now means "anyone who doesn't agree with you on every issue", suddenly a claim such as "Chinese are acting like Nazis" now only means "the Chinese are doing something different".

Honestly, USHA's single statement isn't worth this much attention. CorruptUser 19:35, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Eventually, the wiki will have to decide whether it supports social justice or it wants to be a freeze peach haven for trolls and shitheads. You can't have both. — Oxyaena ^Harass 19:59, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Fine, I'll post a poll in the SB about that... CorruptUser 20:02, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Kid

So... apparently, me adding that poll caused her to rage-quit again. Was there anything particularly wrong with it? CorruptUser 20:39, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

No, not really. It just seems like she couldn't tell most people voted like that as a joke and couldn't take it. 主要行事月 (talk) 20:44, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Interaction ban

Two Way interaction ban with Plutocow

Aye

1. Monet ^Ye 06:50, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Nay

1. Plutocow is in the right here. As a sexual assault survivor, UShit can burn in hell. — Oxyaena ^Harass 08:10, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
2. If a certain particular user didn't give this "history analyzer" (yeah right) troll sysop, he'd probably have been blocked a few days for starting a shit coup and/or edit warring in the Salon. But sysop was granted, and here we are. PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 12:39, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
3. Bongolian (talk) 16:45, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
4. Silly. While cow is a bit aggressive, he has a point. Techpriest (talk) 20:23, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

   *they Plutocow (talk) 20:35, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Goat

• Hopefully plutocow will see how unproductive their feud with UShistoryanalyzer is when nothing comes of this stupid coop, give them another chance. Don’t think the vote should be a part of the coop. I don’t think there’s much chance of UShistoryanalyzer improving in this regard. Christopher (talk) 13:14, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
  • If you know UShistoryanalyzer isn't going to improve, why don't we just ban him and be done with it? Plutocow (talk) 13:49, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

  I said he wouldn’t improve in this regard (your stupid feud), I was hoping you might realise how futile it was after seeing the response to the coop vote you started. People voting against any sanctions for him because of their belief that this shouldn’t still be going on doesn’t give him much reason to change his behaviour. Christopher (talk) 14:23, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

  This coop has so much foreshadowing you might want to take some extra vitamin D.Ariel31459 (talk) 19:18, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Sooo...

...which of these votes is actually valid? AMassiveGay (talk) 09:14, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

This is basically why I haven't voted and don't plan to ATM. I'm basically like Don Glover walking in with those pizzas in that one scene from Community: No idea what's going on. ℕoir LeSable (talk) 16:07, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Just vote goat, you'll never go wrong there. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 19:51, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

It's simple; due to the school closures, all the middle school theatre kids have decided to get their drama online... CorruptUser 19:57, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

I have no idea what even is going on. 主要行事月 (talk) 20:01, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

• USHA posts a bunch of pseudohistory and argues enough about US history to warrant a topic ban.
• USHA and Plutocow got into an argument.
• We had a vote regarding whether USHA should be demopped or something like that, but mostly agreed USHA hadn't been so terrible to be worthy of demopping or perma-ban.
• USHA had another argument regarding US history on a general talk page (somehow still allowed in spite of topic-ban).
• GC went a bit overboard in banning and reverting, this was fixed.
• USHA makes a bit stink about it.
• Pluto takes the opportunity to try and redo the vote to ban/demop USHA.
• Most of us just don't give two craps about the whole thing... CorruptUser 20:45, 22 July 2021 (UTC)