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The "Manosphere" is a loose network of websites oriented towards a particular vision of masculinity, sometimes called neomasculinity. It includes the incelosphere, men's rights and many pick-up artist blogs, as well as some bodybuilding and men’s fashion blogs, although the latter aren't the ones that draw controversy for having a hateful misogynistic rhetoric. The most benign end of the spectrum may include legitimate dating and sex advice, or concern for legal issues affecting men (such as child custody rights) – while the other "radical" end of the spectrum ventures into slut-shaming, women-hating, and (to a lesser extent) homophobic rhetoric resembling that of many Christian and Islamic fundamentalists.

The thing that ties these boys' clubs together is their collective obsession with feminism and the weird way in which they express both a strong desire and a profound distaste for women. Much of the animosity centers on self-proclaimed "Nice Guys" believing that all of their troubles with women are simply because said "evil, golddigging, slutty women" are too stupid to realize how great said men are (the possibility that maybe they're really just losers having never crossed their minds). They also share a similar vocabulary and troubling attitudes concerning sexual assault.

Manosphere and Nazis[edit]

In an example of crank magnetism, many of these people also embrace racism in general and anti-Semitism in particular. There's also a fair amount of overlap between the manosphere and the neoreactionary and alt-right movements (as seen in the Gamergate kerfuffle). There has even been some indication that men's rights activism (MRA) is a pathway into the alt-right.[1]

A possible explanation for this overlap between the Manosphere and alt-right/neo-Nazis is through the philosophical concept of 'conceptual schemes', also known as 'linguistics schemes' or paradigms,Wikipedia showing that the structure of each group's worldview is similar:[2]:260

Worldview/Schema Manosphere alt-right/neo-Nazis
Dehumanization (grouping people into pseudoscientific classes/stereotyping): In-group: Men: alpha, beta, omega, incel, etc. Aryans, whites
Out-group: Women: Becky, femoid, looks ladder, socio-sexual hierarchy, Stacy Jews, African Americans (black brute/Uncle Tom), immigrants, non-whites in general
Persecution complex false rape accusations, misandry reverse discrimination
Conspiracy theorist mindset red pill/blue pill International Jewish conspiracy, white genocide
Simple-minded and unrealistic solutions to perceived persecution Corrective rape, pick-up artist/game Race war, (re)-segregation

Inside the Manosphere[edit]

A Voice for Men[edit]

See the main article on this topic: Paul Elam

A Voice for Men is more or less the men's rights movement's flagship website, founded and run by Paul Elam (1957–). In many respects, he could be considered the unofficial leader of said movement, if not for the infighting between him and other "Manosphere" mullahs such as W. F. Price (The Spearhead) and Daryush Valizadeh (Roosh V). Its companion Facebook page has drawn attention for the staggeringly bad meme images posted on it.[3][edit]

In 2011, Elam established the site, which publishes the personal information of women whom the site claims "have caused significant harm to innocent individuals either by the direct action of crimes like rape, assault, child molestation and murder, or by the false accusation of crimes against others".[4] While the list includes women who have been sent to prison for various crimes, it also includes others who were acquitted, and some who have not been accused of committing any crime,[4] and lists any female rape victim whose court case results in anything but a full conviction, calling them as a "false accuser".[5] In other words, it is a website for rapists to register their victims as false accusers.

Elam has shown zero concern over the fact that his site targets only one gender or that doxxing innocent people has (or could potentially have) real-world consequences like harassment and stalking. In fact, he has stated that the site could feature a listee's "name, address, phone number … even her routes to and from work", though to date he has not gone so far as publishing addresses and phone numbers.[4] He also once offered a cash reward to whoever was able to discover the real name of an anonymous feminist blogger.[4][6][edit]

The White Ribbon Campaign was established in 1991 following the École Polytechnique massacreWikipedia enacted by antifeminist Marc Lépine, a mass shooting that resulted in the death of 14 women, as a symbol of opposition to violence against women and solidarity between genders.[7]

In October 2014, Elam launched a copycat campaign under the domain in order to attack the existing campaign.[8][9] Aside from a few articles reposted from other websites, itself is pretty bare. That is to say, if you don't count the plea for donations in the top right corner of the page. According to Elam, "all donations for our White Ribbon effort will be used to maintain and enhance this website", which presumably means that they will go the same way as the rest of the A Voice for Men donations, rather than towards any substantial effort to support victims of any kind of violence.


Reddit is a general-purpose discussion site containing "subreddits" for a variety of topics, from the rational to the extremely offensive. It also contains subreddits that are firmly in the Manosphere. The most active ones are listed below.


/r/mensrights is home to a large number of MRAs and "Nice Guys". This subbreddit is essentially full of outdated anti-feminist conspiracy theories, their contest to find the worst woman on the planet, and whining about any joke ever made with men as the punchline. It is here that the misinformation and falsified statistics are spread to a large audience. Sometime in December 2013, r/mensrights posters spammed an online rape report form set up for students at Los Angeles' Occidental College after one poster noted that it could be open to abuse. More than 400 false accusations were made through the system, including some against staff at the college and notable Feminists.[10][11] Ironically, this means that the group has actually greatly increased the number of false rape accusations made through American University systems rather than contributing in any meaningful way to decreasing them.


/r/mensrights for Pickup Artists who left to create their own community because other Pickup Artists thought they were too rapey. Absolutely open in their hatred of women and "betas", with quoting and mocking what male posters say in /r/relationships as well as openly enforcing traditional gender roles. Described on /r/TrollXChromosomes as "a place where bitter divorcees and young ugly dudes meet up to discuss strategies of making themselves feel better."[12] Even denounced as misogynist… by /r/mensrights, no less.[13] (It's unclear whether /r/mensrights users genuinely dislike TRP or are just (badly)[14] trying to hide their own sexism.) It has an obsessive focus on being in control of women and becoming an "alpha male" has led them to develop an elaborate jargon and ideology, which if not for lack of leadership could be on its way to being a full-blown political cult. In 2018 the subreddit was quarantined.[15]


/r/theredpill for women, but most of the posters are actually pretending to be women.


This subreddit was created to promote "corrective rape" against feminists and "sluts", and immediately drew condemnation from all sane people everywhere in the media from commentators who compared its own "manifesto" to that of Elliot Rodger. The subreddit's creator claimed to have personally "corrected" seven women.[16] The subreddit was eventually banned along with other inflammatory subreddits in 2015. Notorious troll Joshua Ryne GoldbergWikipedia was eventually exposed as the subreddit's creator after he was arrested by the FBI for providing bomb-making instructions and targets to radical Islamic terrorists under various pseudonymous Twitter handles. In addition to the jihadi handles, Goldberg was behind such online identities as: a radical feminist, a Gamergater, a Zionist, and a Daily Stormer-contributing white supremacist. Goldberg was also Milo Yiannopoulos' primary source for information used to attack civil rights activist Shaun King.


Once a subreddit for posting news stories about "women getting advantage over men just by owning a vagina", /r/PussyPass became an explicitly-Nazi board[17] after the /r/AltRight Reddit got shut down. The alt-right had been expecting a warm welcome, due to the overlap between MRAs and Nazis; however, the mods took back control and banned the Nazi posters, returning the board to its usual misogynist conspiracy theories. Hooray?


This subreddit is about cautioning men against serious romantic relationships with women, especially marriage. The subreddit's name is a reference to the acronym for "men going their own way" which is an online community of men refusing "to bow, serve and kneel for the opportunity to be treated like a disposable utility". The community can also be found on its own specific website.[18]

The Spearhead[edit]

The Spearhead was an MRA webzine and one-stop shop for misogyny and attendant reactionary politics founded by W.F. Price. It had a number of contributors, including Roissy of Chateau Heartiste, Paul Elam of A Voice For Men and white nationalist YouTuber Paul Ramsey.[19] Unlike some other Manosphere sites, The Spearhead did not attempt to deny or downplay its sexism — it was openly and proudly against women's rights. The Spearhead has run articles decrying women's suffrage[20] and advocating patriarchy.[21] Price shut down the website in October 2014, stating that his wife had given birth and he needed to find work.[22]

Roosh V[edit]

See the main article on this topic: Daryush Valizadeh

"Roosh V", aka Daryush Valizadeh, is an American former pick-up artist and sex tourist who runs websites that make up some of the darkest corners of the Manosphere, including his personal blog RooshV and Return of Kings. One of his most interesting views is that rape should be legal on private property.

The Counter-Feminist[edit]

The Counter-Feminist (fidelbogen) is a men’s rights activist (or “male renaissance agitator” if you ask him[23]). He is most frequently seen harassing women in the comments section of feminist articles or YouTube videos.[24] As its name suggests, the blog mostly consists of counter-feminist retorts, going so far as to discourage actual men’s rights activism, such as "opening DV shelters, men's centers, passing male-friendly laws", as this is energy that could be better spent "attacking feminism".[25]

It isn't just the contemporary feminist movement that Fidel is concerned with, he has also spent time attacking the women's suffrage movement (a century or so too late),[26] even stating that "Women's Suffrage was neither good nor bad. It was just historically fashionable."[27]

Men Going Their Own Way[edit]

See the main article on this topic: Men Going Their Own Way

The Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) movement is a weird offshoot of the men's rights movement resembling some kind of straight male separatism. Basically, MGTOWers buy into the same rhetoric MRAs spread ("society is actually biased against men, not women!" etc.), but instead of doing something about it (by advocating for changes to the legal system, for instance), MGTOWers have decided to stay away from women altogether, or, since that is hard, not entering into romantic relationships with women (hence "going their own way"). In other words, it's a hilarious analog to the lesbian separatism movement. It's unclear if the movement has any power beyond "disgruntled douchebags talking shit about women (in general) on the Internet." As a general rule, the reaction of sane people is "Sure, do go your own way and stop whining already!"

The "going their own way" part is often framed not just as self-preservation, but as some kind of "strike" that is supposed to punish women. Apparently in the worldview of some (if not most) MGTOWers, women are some kind of succubi-like creatures, seducing men with their feminine wiles in order to exploit them and unable to live support themselves without men to exploit. (It's worth mentioning that there's a very strong whiff of misogyny wafting around many in the movement.) There are amusing parallels here with the notion of "going Galt" that is popular among wingnuts who overestimate their importance in the grand scheme of things.[edit]

See the main article on this topic: is a website ostensibly dedicated to supporting people who are suffering from social anxiety and are therefore incapable of forming romantic relationships. Nothing nefarious about that, right?

In reality, as a quick stint at Fundies Say the Darndest Things will deftly reveal, the website is a hangout for unwashed, basement-dwelling "Nice Guys" who are bitter about their inability to get laid and who use it to support each other's vomit-inducing, fury-provoking sexism. In the minds of this website's users, all women — and particularly all American women — are heartless, gold-digging whores and cockteases who foolishly deign to date "Bad Boys" who beat them instead of poor, sweet Nice Guys like them, and thus are to be held in contempt. How very nice.

Chateau Heartiste[edit]

See the main article on this topic: Chateau Heartiste

Chateau Heartiste was an MRA/PUA blog run by a guy named James C. Weidmann, formerly known as "Roissy" or "Roissy in D.C." One of the sneeriest and most vicious websites of its ilk, arguably even nastier than its compatriot Roosh V, and written in a bombastic, overheated ramble, Roissy's specialty seemed to be evolutionary psychological woo. He ranted at length about how women having careers, not marrying at age 13,[28] and not looking like airbrushed supermodels[29] is a violation of evolutionary principles, and how women's economic freedom leaves the majority of men with no means of attracting or attaining sex from them, thus leaving them with no incentive to work, thus leading to the collapse of civilizations.

Roissy also became a White Nationalist. He says he opposes the movement, but only because it is not sexist enough for him.[30] Otherwise, his talking points are the same. He does not even try to hide his racism: He believes "white civilization" is getting destroyed[31] as sensible people "will stop at nothing to swamp flyover white country with battalions of uruk-hai"[32] (in a curious echo of a group of weird English supremacists). The only solution to the terrible prospect of whites becoming a minority is, according to Roissy, to forcefully deport all minorities.[33] However, this will not happen as, according to him, the "elites" have an "anti-white ideology" and plan to destroy the white race.[34][35]

Vox Popoli[edit]

See the main article on this topic: Theodore Beale

Vox Popoli is the blogspot of Theodore Beale (Vox Day), a former musician and crappy sci-fi author, and a popular alt-right blogger who espouses hardline Christian, anti-feminist, and right-wing nationalist views. While not identifying outright as a white nationalist, he has expressed sympathy toward many views shared with that ideology.[36]

Beale believes that "female equalitarianism" is a greater threat to science than religion.[37][38] In response to a blog posting by PZ Myers questioning how, exactly, many of the unsavoury aspects of religion benefited women, Beale suggested that honor killings, stoning and even genital mutilation benefited women in the context of ancient societies because they prevented female independence and promiscuity, which he repeatedly referred to as being associated with many "social ills".[39]

He is also against the notion that there may be rape within marriage. That's right, he doesn't oppose marital rape itself, but the definition of it. In his own words: "The concept of marital rape is not merely an oxymoron, it is an attack on the institution of marriage, on the concept of objective law, and indeed, on the core foundation of human civilization itself."[40] He has also dabbled in creating a "sociosexual heirarchy" allegedly with basis in evolutionary psychology, similar to theories marketed by PUAs (though Vox claims he is not a PUA or interested in "game", but merely the theoretical aspects).

The Anti-Feminist[edit]

A self-described "Sex Positive Men's Rights" blog, this is at a glance very similar to other "Manosphere" anti-feminist blogs. However, the blog hosted content written against current age of consent laws, claiming that they were "raised from 13 to 16 in a backward Victorian Criminal Law Act passed in 1885 — lobbied for largely by feminists",[41][42] and against the sex offender registry.Wikipedia[43]

F. Roger Devlin[edit]

See the main article on this topic: F. Roger Devlin

F. Roger Devlin is a white nationalist and men's rights activist. He is a contributing editor for the racist screed The Occidental Quarterly and writes for VDARE. His essay "Sexual Utopia in Power,[44] is the origin of many MRA subcultural memes, jargon and special definitions of words.[45][46]

Jack Donovan[edit]

Donovan in 2021

Jack Donovan (1974–) is a self-proclaimed "androphile", meaning that he prefers relationships with other men, but in only the most manly sort of way. He is strongly critical of women, feminism, and the gay movement (which, he contends, is not masculine enough). He also rejects gay marriage (since it's too derivative of heterosexual marriage) in favor of "blood brother"-type covenants between men. Donovan and like-minded individuals are basically the male analogue of lesbian separatist feminism: men who are actually going their own way. Like Devlin, Donovan also supports white nationalism and writes for the white nationalist publication Alternative Right. He is also a former ordained minister in Anton LaVey's Church of Satan, but no longer identifies as a Satanist and has since declared his attraction to Germanic Neopaganism and runes. In his book The Way of Men, he also dabbles in views similar to anarcho-primitivism à la John Zerzan and Ted Kaczynski, believing that modern technology and civilization represses masculinity, and that men would thrive best in hunter-gatherer societies hunting and warring with other tribes.

The guy is so out-there that even Paul Elam thinks he's nuts.[47]

Anthony "Dream" Johnson[edit]

Johnson claims to be the "1st president" of the Manosphere. He organized a Make Women Great Again Conference, which tried to tell women (i.e., conventionally-attractive women) to denounce feminism in favor of traditional femininity and submission.[48][49]

Jean-Claude Rochefort[edit]

Rochefort is a Canadian anti-feminist blogger who has written blog posts praising Marc Lepine, the perpetrator of the misogyny-fuelled École Polytechnique massacre.[50] He has been arrested a few times for inciting hatred against women.[51][52]


See the main article on this topic: 4chan

4chan is not specifically a Manosphere site, but there is plenty of male angst and misogyny to be found there, including frequent use of MRA and "red pill" memes. While it doesn't take long to find such content on /b/ or other boards, a lot of it is concentrated on /pol/, 4chan's "politically incorrect" board, which is also the home of undisguised race hate, rampant anti-Semitism and Islamophobia, and other such reactionary and neoreactionary attitudes.[53] 4chan has also been the incubator for many anti-feminist and anti-women harassment campaigns, such as The Fappening[54] and Gamergate, both in 2014.[edit]

As the name would imply, the website has a content similar to that of /r/redpill, where brainless "enlightened" people gather to discuss half-baked conspiracy theories on how women are orchestrating a new fascist state. It is also known for having an advice forum, where ill-advised suggestions are made ostensibly to make you more handsome, intelligent, or attractive.[note 1] It is populated primarily by "Nice Guys", who are finally realizing that pick-up-artistry is an enormous scam, yet fall short of realizing why it's a scam. Notably, some of the users knew Elliot Rodger, from a previous incarnation of the website,


The "Manosphere" has received negative press from news outlets positioned across the political spectrum.

Caitlin Dewey of The Washington Post accused them of being misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic… basically everything that we've been saying for the past few years.[55] Meanwhile, Orthodox Christian Rod Dreher of The American Conservative wrote that the movement "dehumanizes both men and women".[56]

The Southern Poverty Law Center[edit]

See the main article on this topic: Southern Poverty Law Center

In their Spring 2012 Intelligence Report the Southern Poverty Law Center published an article called Misogyny:The Sites.[57] Here, they wrote on various 'Manosphere' websites, writing that it is "peopled with hundreds of websites, blogs and forums dedicated to savaging feminists in particular and women". This detailing included content on MRA websites including A Voice for Men, r/mensrights, The False Rape Society, and pick-up artist (and sex tourist) Daryush Valizadeh's blog RooshV.

The SPLC's Mark Potok compared the forums of the "Manosphere" to white supremacist websites and claimed that they contained "pure unvarnished women hatred".[58] The SPLC later expanded on their initial Misogyny:The Sites post, asserting "It should be mentioned that the SPLC did not label MRAs as members of a hate movement; nor did our article claim that the grievances they air on their websites – false rape accusations, ruinous divorce settlements and the like – are all without merit. But we did call out specific examples of misogyny and the threat, overt or implicit, of violence."[59]

We Hunted The Mammoth[edit]

See the main article on this topic: We Hunted The Mammoth

We Hunted The Mammoth (formerly Man Boobz) is a feminist blog dedicated to poking fun at various instances of egregious sexism on the Internet (and sometimes outside of it.[60]) Its usual targets include many Manosphere blogs, including MRAs, PUA]s and MGTOW]. It is probably the best up-to-date source on 'Manosphere' goings-on.

See also[edit]


  1. Rationalwiki voids all warranties if you follow the advice given. Side effects will include being an enormous buffoon.


  1. Men’s-Rights Activists Are Finding a New Home With the Alt-Right by Claire Landsbaum (December 14, 2016 11:30 am) The Cut.
  2. "My Years with Monty Python, or What's So Funny About Language, Truth, and Analyticity?" by Gary L. Hardcastle (2006) In: Monty Python and Philosophy: Nudge Nudge, Think Think!, edited by Gary L. Hardcastle & George A. Reisch. Open Court. ISBN 0812695933. Pages 253-264.
  3. David Futrelle, Men's Right Memes That Make You Go Wat
  4. 4.0 4.1 4.2 4.3 Arthur Goldwag, "Leader’s Suicide Brings Attention to Men's Rights Movement", Southern Poverty Law Center Intelligence Report
  5. David Futrelle, "Register-Her is a Fake “Offenders Registry” Run By Misogynists, Designed to Vilify and Intimidate Women", We Hunted the Mammoth
  6. David Futrelle, "Men’s Rights site A Voice for Men offers $1000 “bounty” for personal information on Swedish feminists", We Hunted the Mammoth
  7. Montreal Massacre: Men wearing white ribbons, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
  8. Jill Filipovic, Why Is an Anti-Feminist Website Impersonating a Domestic Violence Organization?, Cosmopolitan
  9. White Ribbon Copycat Statement, The White Ribbon Campaign
  10. The Huffington Post, 'Men's Rights' Trolls Spam Occidental College Online Rape Report Form
  11., Gawker, College: "Men's Rights" Trolls Spammed Us With 400 Fake Rape Reports
  12. r/TrollXChromosomes, When visiting /r/TheRedPill for the first time
  13. It's seriously that bad.
  14. A Voice for Men, Red pill prescription: take em all
  15. Reddit ‘Quarantines’ White Nationalist Subreddits: The hugely popular site made it harder to find extremist and gory content. by Will Sommer (Updated Sep. 29, 2018 3:19AM ET; Published Sep. 28, 2018 5:33PM ET) The Daily Beast.
  16. Reddit group teaches army of 'holy soldiers' to rape 'harlots' who need 'corrective discipline' by David Edwards (02 Oct 2014) Raw Story (archived from October 2, 2014).
  17. /r/PussyPass: Definitely not what you think it is and probably not what you want it to be. (April 22nd, 2017) Reddit.
  18. MGTOW (archived from March 25, 2021). It's best to look at archives of this site due to security issues on the live site.
  19. The Spearhead about page. Archived from the original at
  20. How Female Suffrage Destroyed Western Civilization. Archived from the original at, 9 September 2010.
  21. Jack Donovan, Patriarchy Works. Archived from the original at, Dec. 21, 2009.
  22. Bill Price Retires The Spearhead., 2 December 2014.
  23. David Futrelle, “MRA demands that people stop calling him an MRA, and instead call him an … MRA”, ”We Hunted the Mammoth”
  24. Cases and Materials, FidelBogen threatens woman
  25. The Counter-Feminism, Activism is not Enough
  26. The Counter-Feminist, One More Time — Women Were NOT "Oppressed" When They Were Not Permitted to Vote
  27. @fidelbogen, Women's Suffrage was neither good nor bad. It was just historically fashionable (6:12 PM - 16 Jul 2013) Twitter (archived from 10 Jul 2014 17:41:43 UTC).
  28. March 2008 Comment Winner. Archived from the original at, 30 March 2008.
  29. Before and After: The Hilarity of Self-Deception. Archived from the original at, 20 April 2011.
  30. White Woman. Archived from the original at, 20 September 2012.
  31. Comment of the Week: 60 Years of Shivving. Archived from the original at, 8 August 2013.
  32. White on White War. Archived from the original at, 17 April 2013.
  33. White Majority in the US gone by 2043. Archived from the original at, 13 June 2013.
  34. Parade of Humiliations. Archived from the original at, 24 February 2014.
  35. Do the White Elite Dream of Mulatto Sheep. Archived from the original at, 20 September 2013.
  36. ScienceBlogs, Vox Day is a White Nationalist, who’d have thought?
  37. The real assault on science, WorldNetDaily
  38. Vox Day on Women in Science, ScienceBlogs, Good Math, Bad Math
  39. Vox Popoli, A scientist beats up PZ
  40. Vox Popoli, Marital sex is never rape.
  41. The Anti-Feminist, The MRM Supporting the Age of Consent is like the Black Civil Rights Movement Supporting Laws Against Interracial Sex
  42. The Anti-Feminist, Ten Points/Memes On The Age of Consent
  43. The Anti-Feminist, One Brave Mother’s Fight to Abolish the Sex Offender Registry
  44. Sexual Utopia in Power by F. Roger Devlin (Summer 2006).
  45. W.F. Price, The Spearhead, "F. Roger Devlin Reviews Murray’s Coming Apart; Murray Apparently Lives in a Bubble, Too
  46. Eincrou, A Voice For Men, "Organizing Reproductive Capital"
  47. Paul Elam (January 20, 2011). "Humanist Counter-Theory in the Age of Misandry". A Voice for Men.
  48. Mansplaining conference hopes to 'Make Women Great Again' by Kirsten Fleming (January 2, 2020 | 5:24pm) New York Post.
  49. The Internet's Most Repulsive Men Are Throwing A 'Make Women Great Again' Convention And Oh My God It's So SAD by Robyn Pennacchia (December 28, 2019 03:42 PM) Wonkette.
  50. See the Wikipedia article on École Polytechnique massacre.
  51. Anti-feminist blogger Jean-Claude Rochefort back in court for bail hearing by Rachel Lau (Published Thursday, December 12, 2019 12:09PM EST; Last Updated Monday, December 16, 2019 7:13AM EST) CTV News.
  52. Anti-feminist blogger Jean-Claude Rochefort must stay away from UQAM, judge says: Man who has expressed admiration for Marc Lépine not allowed to be on UQAM's campuses. by Paul Cherry (January 31, 2020) Montreal Gazette.
  53. (NSFW)
  54. See the Wikipedia article on 2014 celebrity photo leaks.
  55. The Washington Post, Inside the ‘manosphere’ that inspired Santa Barbara shooter Elliot Rodger
  56. The American Conservative, Women Who Love Men Who Hate Women
  57. The Southern Poverty Law Center, Misogyny: The Sites
  58. Yahoo News, Santa Barbara killings: Did misogynist hate groups play a role?
  59. The Southern Poverty Law Center, Intelligence Report Article Provokes Fury Among Men’s Rights Activists
  60. Such as when he commented on a Victorian painting.