RationalWiki:Chicken coop/Archive116

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GR again[edit]

in the 5 minutes they have been back (thanks to the woefully poor judgement from hastur, again) tehy have done nothing but troll, disrupt and harrass. can we be shot of prick once and for all? AMassiveGay (talk) 12:10, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Aye. [1][2] for anyone who wants some diffs of him pointlessly attacking oxy (the attacks are out of the blue, don't pertain to the thread and seems just designed to smear Oxy. He's blatantly broken our harassment policies here (and arguably doxxing, although it's a weak one. Revealing a partners online handle without consent is arguably considered doxxable content, but I'm not intending to argue it to death). Furthermore, he's been consistently attempting to pull cheap gotchas on me and other editors (ref. Saloon and the mod campaigning page), which are losing their charm rapidly for me. I don't think I'm speaking alone here in the fact that my patience with him has dwindled so far below zero that it makes dealing with LiberalTears attempts to use us to play telephone with nobs seem like a more appealing use of my time. Of course, I fully expect Raven to go "and you just want me gone now, so you instantly cooped me" whining bullshit in the comments once his 3 hour block someone else gave him expires, so expect some of that drooling he's been doing on our other pages to start occurring here as well. I suggest nipping it in the butt now before he can sludge more of his dregs on the site. Maybe he can then turn socdemwiki into something else than bikeshedded templates and stubs. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 12:34, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
GR doxxed my partner in the bar. Diff here: [3]. He also did it as a form of harassment, so, well, you know, do with it what you will, but I don't think we should continue to let a harasser and doxxer with a proven problematic track record on this wiki and elsewhere to be allowed on this site. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 12:45, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
I am completely in favour of startring another formal Coop case with a view to permabanning GR. There's no way he's going to survive this one. Not even if he does pull another LANCB. Spud (talk) 13:02, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Pretty strange how the GR/Oxy war basically started out of nowhere for no reason and still doesn't make any sense. HairlessCat (talk) 13:08, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
off wiki drama as far as i can tell. before gr even showed up here. AMassiveGay (talk) 13:14, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
From what I'm aware of/have been told, the mutual dislike seems to have started way before GR showed up here, and it pertains little to his current behavior in terms of stirring up shit (also don't want to focus too much on this cuz he'll use this as an opportunity to direct this all away from his behavior on the site and accuse his accusers of being prejudiced over old drama). Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 13:34, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Okay, not commenting on the whole "dox" thing, because that seems like none of my business...you can't seriously claim his edits have been "principally constructive" since he returned. He has degenerated from a productive user with some controversial traits to a garden variety troll. Why should we keep him around? What is this community supposedly losing here?-Flandres (talk) 13:54, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

He's still bringing in my personal shit to the wiki. Fucking bastard. [4] Notice that my partner didn't consent to bringing this shit onto the wiki. He specifically told me he was trying to defuse things, and didn't want Raven using this against me. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 14:00, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
It truly has been a highly pleasant bunch of weeks without Raven shitting up the wiki. Raven's behaviour since he returned has been nothing but petty, nasty, vicious or a combination of all three. Once the voting starts I propose pi weeks, pi months and pi years block (simple majority) as well as a perma ban (2/3 votes necessary) with all successful penalties to be applied consecutively. Voting ought to continue regardless of whether Raven LANCBs again to try to avoid sanctions (once again). ShabiDOO 14:45, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Yah, say goodbye to Raven. Awful bastard. AceModerator 18:12, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Now that I am able to defend myself in a kangaroo court[edit]


So... if revealing the online handle of Oxy's partner is considered Doxxing, then I have one obvious question. Why is the name still up in the Saloon Bar? CoryUsar (talk) 16:51, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

I was not quite sold on the idea of this being doxxing, but if you want to remove it be my guest.-Flandres (talk) 16:54, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
(ec) If doxxing involves saying someone's name with their consent, then doxxing isn't that big of a problem. Also, they are making shit up to get me banned. Instead of just saying "I don't like raven so ban him" (which would be sincere), they are inventing myriad of reasons to get me banned. I have screenshots of the person consenting to naming them, so.... And even an obsessed hater with Flandres doesn't think its doxxing. It's that paperthin. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 16:54, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
I said arguably and that I didn't truly believe that I wanted to make the case around this. Can we talk more about your unprovoked attack on her which is definetly breaking our harassment policy? Or your continued insistence to misspell my username? Or how you within 24 hours of unblocking have managed to piss off nearly every sysop I've seen, even those who normally support you. Because those things are far more substantiated than the weak form of doxxing present here. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 17:01, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
So if the person consents to having their name out, explicitly and directly telling me that they don't care.... Actually, define doxxing for me. With a citation of any online dictionary. @Sirius โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 17:02, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
You don't get to set the terms here. Like I said, I'm not making it about the weak doxxing. What made you do that unprompted attack on her? Why are you misspelling my username when not pinging me? Why have you seemingly made it your mission since coming back to piss off every editor? Those are why you're here. I won't entertain the doxxing conversation any further unless you can answer these questions. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 17:05, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Alright, so you won't even define doxxing for your accusation. Interesting! โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 17:08, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Can you answer my questions? Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 17:10, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Can you answer his question, instead of ignoring it? 2A02:1812:2C66:D000:2C84:8A5B:EE:6918 (talk) 17:16, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
I don't think it was doxxing either. I have no love for Oxy, a quick look at our correspondence would show that at best I view her as "annoying". I honestly think she told the story to try and get sympathy from everyone else, the most charitable explanation is that she makes extreme assumptions that a mentally healthy person would not (unless there is a better explanation for "I can't get in contact with someone" = "They definitely committed suicide"), and I don't believe she is even mentally capable of coming to terms with her own inadequacies. So obviously, I don't care too much that she was harassed.
But if someone was harassing her, I do care about that. CoryUsar (talk) 17:11, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Regardless of whether or not Oxy lied, GR had no need to say so in the Bar. It was almost certainly an attempt to discredit and/or annoy her. Twodots (talk) 17:20, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
I know the source is "dude, trust me", but I asked Oxy to explain the situation (she can verify); the short of it is that she couldn't get in contact with her partner for over a week, then a friend of both Oxy and that person told her "your partner probably committed suicide" and 20 minutes later she posted in the bar about taking a break. I can verify that this conversation happened because of a reason that I am not willing to publicly disclose (cuz it could ruin my attempts at verifying stuff in the future), but if anyone wants an explanation, you can DM me in the RW support chat. Now can we move on to actually holding GR accountable for his behavior? There's a few questions I want answered and he's ignoring them it would seem. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 17:24, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Just like you're ignoring his question. 2A02:1812:2C66:D000:2C84:8A5B:EE:6918 (talk) 17:39, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, GR's attack was unprompted, out of the blue, and genuinely counts as harassment. Irregardless of whatever squabbles are going on at the bar, this is no room for harassment. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 17:27, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

โ”Œโ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”˜I don't believe that this was doxxing since GR showed that the person in question said that it was not. It does look like harassment to me. To me, this looks more like harassment. There's a way to go about calling someone out about lying without delving into harassment, and that was not it. GR could have said something like, "I heard that your partner did not actually die. What happened?" This gives the accused a chance to confess or explain, and if the accused does not confess, then one can present the evidence. While it's true that Oxy has been caught lying before, unless the lying also breaks the community standards, there's no prescribed punishment for it. In principle, the mob can punish for any reason at all, but the vote is rather unlikely to get the required 2/3 majority (or >50% for lesser punishments) unless the behavior breaks the CS. Bongolian (talk) 17:30, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

@Bongolian do you care that she lied about her partner committing suicide? โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 17:31, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Do you think it's impossible to care about both the lying and the harassing? CoryUsar (talk) 17:39, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
No? Why are you asking? Did I say that? โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 17:41, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
I do not care about the lying unless and until it contravenes the community standards. I was actually suspicious (due to past behavior) about that Saloon post at the time, but thought that the best response was to express sympathy since I had no evidence to the contrary. Bongolian (talk) 17:45, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Fair enough (that was actually my reaction too; I casually found out about the lie when I asked Z about it). โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 17:47, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Ok, guys, we've already established that GR's actions constitute some level of harassment. Can we discuss the severity of the harassment instead of whatever it is we're doing now? I feel like it'd be more productive. Twodots (talk) 17:51, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Stop being such a suck-up. 2A02:1812:2C66:D000:2C84:8A5B:EE:6918 (talk) 17:56, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Raven, there was no lie. Stop. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 17:55, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
[15][16] โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 17:58, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Let's just assume Oxy is a liar-that has at best tangential bearing on this case. Harassing a liar is still harassment. He has still contributed to drama on other unrelated topics in a very short amount of time since he came back, as Sirius pointed out.-Flandres (talk) 18:00, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
"I don't really care what any of the fuckwits in here think about me, quite frankly."
Thanks, GR. Twodots (talk) 18:10, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

โ”Œโ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”˜it irrelevant whether it was a lie or not. oxyaena gained nothing from it, no harm was incurred to anyone from it. oxyaena is in no way obliged to explain herself to anyone on rw and certainly not to a prick whose every post is harassment. if oxy has been caught in a lie its hardly the crime of the century - its of interest only to oxy herself. further discussion on the details of the alleged lie is of no concern here. what is of concern is the manner it has been 'exposed' - if indeed thats what happened - which is nothing short of harassment, the continued gloating by the prick gr is continued harassment, which we all help to enable if we focus on the substance of a supposed and meaningless untruth. we dont need the details or need to know the 'truth' of matter but we do need to keep focus on the horrendous harassment from a dumbfuck troll whose own relationship to the truth is, shall we say, estranged. AMassiveGay (talk) 18:15, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

going to have to disagree with you on one of them points, lad. Lying about suicide is beyond pale. AceModerator 18:27, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Oh no! Somebody may have lied about their personal life! Whatever shall we do? Let's focus on that instead of the harrassing troll. Twodots (talk) 18:28, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
hey pal, I just donโ€™t find making up smack about suicides particularly funny. I know a lot of suicides and have taken the dark road myself and it ainโ€™t to be made light of. AceModerator 18:40, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

โ”Œโ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”˜That's fair. Raven's still a dirtbag, though. Twodots (talk) 18:43, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Nothing I say in any way vindicates GR. Fuck GR. AceModerator 19:11, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Agreed. Time to ban his sorry ass. Twodots (talk) 19:18, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
โ€œโ€ There is no worse blind man than the one who doesn't want to see.
There is no worse deaf man than the one who doesn't want to hear.
And there is no worse madman than the one who doesn't want to understand.
โ€”Ancient Proverb
โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 18:32, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
You know, you keep saying that, but that doesn't make it true. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 18:29, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Can we just block this dude? It's clear that he has no desire to contribute to the wiki, and he's done nothing but stir up trouble. Twodots (talk) 18:37, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
@ace - i have (or had, i suppose) relatives who committed suicide. they are in no way harmed by someone lying about a suicide. in this case the alleged untruth even less so. a lie about things such doesnt harm me just makes me think a little less of an alleged liar. no reason for me not to think it a genuine mistake. it wasnt like oxy milked it any way. should anyone have been hurt by it can take it up with oxyaena if need be. here though, as i have said, its an irrelevance. nothing was gained from it, no one was harmed by it, its an irrelevance here. AMassiveGay (talk) 18:48, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
That's pretty wise, dude. Twodots (talk) 18:52, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Just my opinion dude. It's not like I am relentlessly needling Oxy about it. Just making my thoughts clear. AceModerator 19:12, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Okie dokie. Twodots (talk) 19:18, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
I don't think I buy the "doxxing" thing, but yeah, you beat me to starting Mob v. GR. Nothing of value will be lost. Dunno why @Hastur thought it wise to let him back in. All he's done is make serious accusations against people and then refuse to back them up, give bogus anti-endorsements of nearly all of the 7 electable mod candidates we have, and vote "no" on every potential punishments proposed for LT with no explanation why. Reban him. --Goatspeed. E pluribus unum๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธCircularREmail2.gifasoning๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ-->Prototype lab 19:48, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

โ”Œโ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”˜ Except I was never banned. Btw, there is a plethora of evidence above (not that you will care, I know you won't). โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 19:50, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes, all we care about is persecuting poor Raven. The whole world is wrong and you are right. Just like Galileo. You will be remembered as a hero who fought against a brutal and unfair system. Well done. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosoliniโ€™s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 20:06, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
You got the wrong guy punished by the Inquisition. Giordano Bruno! And thank you duce, very cute of you. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 20:08, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
That was sarcasm. --Goatspeed. E pluribus unum๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธCircularREmail2.gifasoning๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ-->Prototype lab 21:23, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Alright. Mod steps in[edit]

Ban for GR. Go forth and vote. Evidence to be found all around us. AceModerator 19:13, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Any vote started within 48 hours of filing will be deleted and you will be blocked. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 19:19, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
GR, it's not an actual vote. Be quiet. Twodots (talk) 19:22, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Given the amount of trouble you've caused on the last 24 hours, and given the past 3 coop discussions and multiple mod noticeboard discussions, I'd say the mob is capable of making an informed decision about your future here. --RWRW (talk) 19:24, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Alright, we bending the rules again to get me banned. lol โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 19:29, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Just like with the doxxing of Z on their support chat, pulling a KiwiFarms tactic. 2A02:1812:2C66:D000:2C84:8A5B:EE:6918 (talk) 19:44, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Blocked this user a few days for low-carb trolling. Meant to do it earlier, but all their contributions have been flinging shit in all directions with no disregard for who it's aimed at. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 19:47, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
That's Gunther - and you probably know that. But silence those who you disagree with, that's fine. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 19:48, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
No? None of those edits suggested Gunther to me. He has an account, he could've used it if he wanted to be identified as Gunther. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 20:19, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
*facepalm* โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 20:23, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Adding this here, not for GR (he won't care anyway), but for future coop's sake; mods have the right to sidestap that rule as per their duties on ATIMs project page. Specifically, from tools: The primary tool given to moderators is the authority to act on their own volition to deal with problems the site may encounter. Moderators are allowed to take actions to curb destructive conduct or discourse and those actions should not be undone by non-moderators. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 19:32, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
If you are going to get upset GR I'll keep the vote open long enough to meet the 48 hours required. However - as a mod I am stepping in to end this shit now. As is my duty to do so. AceModerator 19:42, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
I am not upset, I just find it hilarious how threatened you feel. As you yourself said: first time you voted to permaban someone. I shine a bit of truth in this cave and suddenly the cockroaches are panicking. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 19:46, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
I think you know I agree with you about Oxy. And you know my honest appraisal of RW is similar to yours. But whereas I am abrasive you're a cunt. So here we are. Don't fuck with me pal. AceModerator 19:59, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Whatever, sweetie. Have fun power-tripping. xoxoxo โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 20:02, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
I don't power trip my man. That's Oxy's bag. I just don't like fucking around. AceModerator 20:38, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Actual Votes[edit]

All sanctions will be consecutive (more than one sanction will apply if sucessful). Permaban requires 2/3 vote. All others a simple majority.

My vote was removed several times despite being eligible[edit]

Just saying for those who oversee this process. Not that it matters mathematically speaking, but my vote was removed and you can check in the diffs. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 14:51, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

@DuceMoosolini and Shabidoo As much as I find the notion of a 1 minute block pathetic and amusing, GR is technically able to vote for it I think, unless you can present a convincing argument otherwise. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 14:54, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Mfw Crowtin as a tiny amount of consistency. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 15:01, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Let it stay. With all the votes going against GR, it's just 59 seconds on top of infinity, 3 years, 167 days, 6 hours, 43 minutes and 43 seconds. I'd say it's 59 seconds better...however mathematically implausible that is. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 15:17, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Actually that didn't take into account the 10 months and two days proposed by Hairless Cat, so someone add that to the calculation. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 15:20, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
You gotta stop being a drunk court jester at some point; that was Hairless Cat (a Vaush fan btw), not Flandres. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 15:23, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, I'll keep being drunk as long as I like. Also, stop deleting my self corrections dipshit. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 15:26, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Okay, but before you get likely blocked, I have to ask: Crowtin, seriously? Are you comparing me to Steven Crowder or calling me a cretin in a roundabout way? I'm genuinely unsure, and I'm unsure which I find more amusing. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 15:38, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
It was a typo that Flandres freaked out and I just decided to keep it. Unless you think I would hesitate to call you a cretin. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 15:41, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

โ”Œโ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”˜Regarding voting for or against oneself in the coop, there is currently a proposal that I initiated on the Community Standards talk page regarding this issue (RationalWiki talk:Community Standards#Voting for or against oneself in the coop). The outcome of the proposal is not intended to apply retroactively or to current coop cases. Bongolian (talk) 17:50, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Nobody cares, bongo. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 17:55, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
I do. Twodots (talk) 18:02, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, you're a nobody. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 19:46, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Wow, what a clever insult! Too bad I don't value you or your opinions in the slightest. You're back here because nobody cares about you. Nobody cared when you left, nobody cared about your edits, and nobody cared about your scummy dumpster fire of a wiki. So you came back to try and get some attention. How pathetic. I can't wait for you to get booted back into your shithole, it'll be super fun to watch you squirm around in your own filth for a bit before you finally succumb to the fumes of your own idiocy and inadequacy. Twodots (talk) 20:57, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Good post! --Goatspeed. E pluribus unum๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธCircularREmail2.gifasoning๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ-->Prototype lab 16:24, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
Alright. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 21:03, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
That's slang for "I'm a piece of shit", right?Twodots (talk) 21:06, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Free advice Twodots. Troll Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 18:04, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Pretty sad to see Raven sink that far, honestly. I used to have a fairly high opinion of him. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosoliniโ€™s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 18:06, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
I actually was convinced to turn from permabanning him last time by another editors eloquent arguments. Don't see that happening this time. GR has well and truly burned each and every bridge that could possibly have been rebuilt. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 18:18, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Can't burn any bridges that don't exist. Just so you know, GC, Oxy, etc. were deadset to get me banned from the beginning, without me even joining the site. So I don't really give a shit about your faux whinging; plus, I have my own wiki now. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 19:49, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
So why are you here again? Shouldn't you be tending to your STDWiki or whatever it's called?
Oh right, trolling. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 19:59, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
lol, "STDwiki" as if having a STD is some sort of insult. Shaming people for STDs is fine, but I guess pointing out a sociopath's lies... nah, that's way too much. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 21:03, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
"Guys, I know that I'm a piece of shit, but did you see what that other guy did?" Twodots (talk) 21:08, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Raven, I know you won't care, but allow me to try anyway: You want to make socdemwiki great? Good, I would like to see you succeed, competition is nice! That said, write some articles. Templating is something you can bother with later, at the moment functionally all of your articles are stubs, especially the page on social democracy. Write pages instead of bikeshedding out as many templates as you can. Until then, people will see your site as a laughing stock and you won't be able to easily attract new editors. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 21:13, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Correct, I don't care about your take on SDW. If you have experience with JSON, I would appreciate your expertise, though. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 21:20, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
GR: Nah, I just think it'd be fun if you caught syphilis. Purely personal dude. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 21:18, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Let's race then: while I try to get syphilis, you get hepatic cirrhosis. Deal? โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 21:24, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

โ”Œโ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”˜Well I'm likely to get it anyway. Meanwhile, you can also fuck off. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 21:30, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

I have mild cirrhosis. It's not too bad. AceModerator 21:48, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Though I probably have about 20 years headstart on you anyway. But them's the breaks I guess. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 21:33, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Well, at least nobody can say I didn't at least try to give him the offer to make SDW great. Instead he's choosing to keep obsessing over JSON (which is a piss easy data formatting language LOL). Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 21:34, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Why are you laughing? I have never touched JSON before. I had to learn CSS from scratch. Were you born knowing JSON, Crowtin? โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 21:35, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Can someone whose not alcoholic remind me of what JSON is again? Just Some Orange Numbers?
I need to go to sleep. G'night! Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 21:42, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
It's a data markup language, kinda like XML (which is a good bit older than JSON). Except unlike XML it's a lot more simple since you don't have to define everything in 50 different ways. You find it a lot when trying to talk with web apis or setting up config files. As for @GR, understanding JSON took me about 30 minutes and I haven't had trouble since. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 22:25, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Well I guess for an anti-GMO guy you're not that dumb then, as you were born with the JSON knowledge. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 22:38, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Raven: "I only care about facts and truth, not narratives."
Also Raven: "Fuck you, you moron, my way or the high way!!!" โ˜ญComrade GCโ˜ญMinistry of Praise 22:47, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Still not anti-GMO xD. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 22:48, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
@GrammarCommie I didn't say that. I don't care what Crow thinks in terms of administration, I have my own plans on how to develop my wiki. I want to do the tech stuff first and later deal with writing. @Sirius here is the evidence that you are anti-GMO. [17] โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 23:21, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Raven logic: You are anti-GMO. Evidence: "I'm in favor of GMOs". You have some fucking galaxybrain logic here my dude.Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 23:24, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

โ”Œโ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”˜ I don't care how you couch your words, mandating the labeling of GMO products for no reason other than "they might be putting stuff in my food" is an anti-GMO position, yes, actually. This is akin to saying "I am not a racist, but blacks are kinda scary" โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 23:30, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

If you'd actually read what I was saying, my reasoning was "I don't trust corporations, I want to know what they're doing so that they can't lie about it", not "I want GMOs labeled because GMOs are against nature so I can avoid buying them". The latter is the logic anti-GMOers use. I am not one. But sure, obfuscation to own the anti-GMOers I guess. Also, good job on comparing "not trusting corporations" to "not trusting people of color", because those are totally the same thing and comparable. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 23:46, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
(ec) Are you actually this stupid? Do I need to explain that you can compare things without equating them? Are you:
  1. stupid,
  2. dishonest,
  3. or both?
For the rest, there is no evidence that GMOs cause harm. I explained this to you and you still wanted mandatory labeling for no reason. Which, yeah, anti-GMO. Maybe you changed your mind, but that stance is anti-GMO, regardless of how much you say "I am pro-GMO". David Duke also precedes his anti-Semitic nonsense with "I am not an anti-Semite"; does that now make him not an anti-Semite? I tend to think you are dishonest, but maybe you are actually this dumb. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 23:57, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Um, being in favor of mandating the labeling of genetically modified products is in no way the same as saying "I'm not racist, but black people are scary". Twodots (talk) 23:51, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
Raven: "I am just an outspoken progressive SocDem who likes facts and evidence before narrative"
Also Raven: "Not trusting corporations is equivalent to racism." โ˜ญComrade GCโ˜ญMinistry of Praise 23:54, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
I think that we should label the amount of water in orange juice (don't worry I know that water isn't bad for you). Does that make me racist? ShabiDOO 00:04, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
@Shabidoo Apparently. โ˜ญComrade GCโ˜ญMinistry of Praise 00:08, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Raven, the ultimate wokescolder. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 21:38, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

59 seconds[edit]

  1. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 14:58, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

3.14 Weeks[edit]


  1. ShabiDOO 20:27, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  2. At the very least. Don't start shit the first minute you come back... CoryUsar (talk) 20:36, 23 November 2020 (UTC)



3.14 Months[edit]


  1. ShabiDOO 20:31, 23 November 2020 (UTC)



3.14 Years[edit]


  1. ShabiDOO 20:27, 23 November 2020 (UTC)



Ten months and two days[edit]

  1. HairlessCat (talk) 15:01, 24 November 2020 (UTC)



  1. I support casting him into the fires of Hell for all eternity. Twodots (talk) 19:25, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    You will be able to vote this Friday, for the record.-Flandres (talk) 19:44, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    Yes, but not now. Feels good to strike out, though. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 19:47, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    He's eligible now. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 14:11, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
  2. I'd ask the mob to look at how the peaceful the place has been over the last 6 weeks, and now look at how its been over the last 24 hours. --RWRW (talk) 19:26, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  3. And add sysoprevoke in there for good measure. โ€”cosmikdebris talk stalk 19:29, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  4. Raven has somehow managed to piss off literally everyone, Hastur included (who normally seems to have stuck up for him, but this time went out of his way to point out that he shouldn't actively go out of his way to provoke Oxy) within 24 hours of getting unblocked. I think the way the wind is blowing here is obvious. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 19:30, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  5. This is the first time I have ever voted to permaban someone. But this guy jumping in and making chaos within a few hours means I am happy to vote for my first permaban in my nearly 13 years of RW membership. AceModerator 19:41, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    Don't worry Ace, I take it as a badge of honor. I broke you. This is the fourth coop against me, where you had to break the rules of the coop to get rid of me. And I am not a pedophile, a convicted criminal, a nazi or anything horrible like that; I am just an outspoken progressive SocDem who likes facts and evidence before narrative. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 16:02, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    Nobody said you were a Nazi, a pedophile, or a convicted criminal. Twodots (talk) 18:05, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    *facepalm* โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 19:50, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    I'm not wrong, am I? Twodots (talk) 20:20, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    Yeah - broke me. Sure. I feel overly broken. AceModerator 21:50, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    I don't think Ace will ever recover. He will spend the rest of his life contemplating his errors wondering however did Raven the genius get the best of him. ShabiDOO 21:53, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
  6. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 19:44, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  7. What else can be said at this point?-Flandres (talk) 19:46, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  8. Nothing of value will be lost. This guy is rapidly becoming the next Aneris- if any of y'all remember that guy. As @Cosmikdebris said, I also propose sysrevoking him so he can't go insane if some other sysop fucks up in a similarly trout-able way. --Goatspeed. E pluribus unum๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธCircularREmail2.gifasoning๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ-->Prototype lab 19:52, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    Wait, when did I defame people in articles? โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 19:56, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  9. Long overdue. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 20:02, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  10. Thank fucking god. Yeet the bird. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosoliniโ€™s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 20:07, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  11. Bongolian (talk) 20:24, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  12. Total fucking no brainer ShabiDOO 20:32, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  13. This is the only sensible solution. And I say that if GR pulls another LANCB before this process is completed, we carry on and block him in absentia. He shouldn't be allowed to come back and repeat the same pattern of toxic behaviour ever again. Spud (talk) 00:46, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
  14. This is very long overdue. Ever since he's come back, all he has done is start shit with everyone on here. The sooner he's gone, the better. Magic Master (talk) 16:04, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
  15. off you fuck AMassiveGay (talk) 20:40, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
  16. please rw do the right thing for once --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 21:56, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
  17. ๐Ÿ’ ASELAเค•เฅเคฐเคพ ๐Ÿ’ 12:49, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
  18. TheFonz (talk) 16:20, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
    Oh hi Fonz! Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 16:21, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
    Hello, it seems we meet again, but as friends or foes? TheFonz (talk) 17:00, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
    I suppose it depends on the behavior of both of us. I'm certainly willing to give you a second chance. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 17:05, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
    I know your comment was a video game reference by the way. Just can't remember the game...I don't think I played it. Probably saw it on YouTube or something. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 17:07, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
    And I certainly am willing not to be toxic to you ever again. TheFonz (talk) 10:30, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
    Great, welcome back then! Part of the reason for me changing my handle was to get a fresh start as a less angry and verbally abusive editor. Raven's not making it easy for me, but we'll be rid of him soon enough. And I'm definitely happy for the opportunity to interact with you in a more friendly manner. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 12:20, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
  19. Let him be banned, and our enemies tremble.๐”–๐”ฒ๐”ช๐”ช๐”ž ๐”„๐”ฑ๐”ฅ๐”ข๐”ฌ๐”ฉ๐”ฌ๐”ค๐”ฆ๐” ๐”ž (๐”ฎ๐”ฒ๐”ข๐”ฏ๐”ข๐”ฉ๐”ฆ๐”ฐ) (๐”ฐ๐” ๐”ฏ๐”ฆ๐”ญ๐”ฑ๐”ฒ๐”ฏ๐”ž) 16:25, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
  20. Just wanted to be included in here. โ€” ๐—ฆ๐—พ๐—ฟ๐˜-๐Ÿญ talk stalk 11:57, 1 December 2020 (UTC)


  1. No evidence of GR having violated the Community Standards. Guy shows up, he makes a few inoffensive comments, what gives? Unclear why due-process has been ignored. Since any ban enacted on this vote, would have been carried out against multiple provisions of the Community Standards, it may be perfectly justifiable to unblock him later... idiotic clown show. This entire affair resembles a Mob Court; complete with: fabricated evidence, factually incorrect accusations, rushing the start time against policy, rushing the vote end time against policy, blocking the defendant to prevent him defending himself, hiding the defence once posted, et al. I'd expect better than this, you may as well have not bothered and blocked him again straight-off, as this entire vote is essentially void per Community Standards. Absurd. Judge Dredd (talk) 16:22, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    They also removed my vote (not that it would matter mathematically). They are drunk and high on "Might is right". You as a board member could nullify this vote as it violates several core policies. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 16:36, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    As an aside, I would check out the evidence I posted (in this coop and my talk page) that Oxy lied publicly about her partner killing himself, lying also to your sister and everyone else. I suggested Z to cut any ties with Oxy because Oxy is legit a sociopathic emotional manipulatior and harmful to others. Of course, you are free to associate with anyone as you want, that's just my tip. She also told me to kill myself and that I should rot in my own piss. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 16:41, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    This is exactly what they did with Z & D during the coop that followed Raven's coop in September. Too bad Discord ignored her, when she reported them for doxxing... 2A02:1812:2C66:D000:DC01:9F33:4229:5E76 (talk) 18:46, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    "Oxy did something bad, therefore I should be able to do bad things! NO!! WHY ARE YOU MAD AT ME!!! NNNNOOOOOO!!!!!" You can't even defend yourself coherently, truly pathetic. โ˜ญComrade GCโ˜ญMinistry of Praise 18:21, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    Well wait GrammarCommie. He did point out that he isn't a Nazi so you cannot say that he didn't thoroughly and convincingly defend himself. ShabiDOO 18:39, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    "Oxy did something bad, therefore I should be able to do bad things!" quote me saying that, @GrammarCommie. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 19:51, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    Why would anyone need to? Your two stock answers to criticism are "fuck you, I do what I want" or to randomly bring up something bad Oxy did in some misguided effort to prove a double standard. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosoliniโ€™s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 19:57, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    That's a nice non-sequitur. No quote, empty accusations, blocking me for voting, collapsing my defense, breaking community guidelines to rush the voting... BoliviaWiki. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 20:02, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    You respond so rapidly. You seem to enjoy spending your time here more than you enjoy your own wiki. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosoliniโ€™s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 20:03, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    I never said I don't enjoy the time here. This is very amusing to me. But I do edit my own wiki; I have to (for better or worse) do the skinning, designing, templating, stuff like that. My newest work is figuring out JSON to use the graph extension and write the help page for it. But it is true, Ratwiki does consume my time, it's why I quit editing mainspace here; way too much drama for little reward (and the reward that there is is snark by idiots/commies). โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 20:11, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    For instance, I had a lot of issues figuring out how to add additional text to the graph in the Islamophobia article. I am currently looking into how to import CSV files into a table, stuff like that (not that you care about these details). โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 20:13, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
    "But I thought this was supposed to be RATIONALWiki!" Drink! --Goatspeed. E pluribus unum๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธCircularREmail2.gifasoning๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ-->Prototype lab 20:26, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
  2. There is no evidence I have violated the community standards. But let's see how absurd this becomes. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 13:37, 25 November 2020 (UTC)


  1. can I have some form of "give them pi-week ban, and if they start shit again, perma-ban without need for coop?" CoryUsar (talk) 19:54, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    I think we already kinda did that. AceModerator 20:01, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    Though I can't vote, I don't think this solution would work, as community consensus would be required to determine if a given action qualifies as "starting shit." At that point, you might as well do another coop. IveBeenFrank (talk) 20:02, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    "give them pi-week ban". That was the status quo until about a day ago when Raven came back. Not worth trying again imo. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosoliniโ€™s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 20:09, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    Okay, let me point out for all of those voting for lower punishment lengths that he left for two months and if anything was WORSE when he came back. If you think a pi-week bloc would solve the problem because it would give him time to think and he would come back a changed man then the evidence says you are wrong. He did not even wait for anyone to snap at him before he started flame-baiting, so you can't say "he was met with too hostile a reception and thus melted down". He just came back and started aimlessly attacking people.-Flandres (talk) 21:04, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    Flandres the punishments are consecutive. 3.14 one month and a 3.14 year block equals three years and four months. I'm just voting for all of that just in case enough users vote against the perma. ShabiDOO 21:30, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    Well then. That was fast. And here I thought I was abrasive... โ˜ญComrade GCโ˜ญMinistry of Praise 21:30, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    (edit conflict) I meant that for people who JUST vote for the shortest block. "Give him another chance is just a argument I have seen too many times, so I wanted to put this to bed. Don't worry, you were not a target.-Flandres (talk) 21:33, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
    Please keep the coop up I'd like to mock Raven a bit more. โ˜ญComrade GCโ˜ญMinistry of Praise 20:10, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
  2. I didnโ€™t want this to take up space or attention in the votes, so Iโ€™m adding it here. I donโ€™t know if Iโ€™m allowed to do collapses in the goat section, but if so, please do so; I want this to go on record, but I do not want it to draw attention or be discussed. Anyway. I didnโ€™t feel confident expressing my actual opinion last time since I didnโ€™t feel well-informed enough. The experience of the wiki without them, however, plus this one incident, more than confirms what I thought previously, so I just want to get it off my chest now. This user is toxic, malicious, and consistently makes editing here an overwhelmingly negative experience. I donโ€™t think there is any justification for this kind of shit, and I sincerely hope that the votes to ban remain close to unanimous โ€” not because Iโ€™m worried that it wonโ€™t pass (I feel like it obviously will), but because I feel like any significant dissent about this will force me to reevaluate the kind of place that this is. I say these things not because I think less of people who argued on this userโ€™s behalf before (Iโ€™m still uncertain about a good chunk of that situation, it was definitely less cut and dry), nor even because I want to make this user feel bad or whatever (I donโ€™t think thatโ€™s helpful, a good use of my time, or even particularly possible). Iโ€™m saying this mostly because, while I doubt many people on the wiki care what I think, itโ€™s important to me in light of this particular incident, that nobody is mistaken about my feelings and intentions on the matter. ๐Ÿ’ ASELAเค•เฅเคฐเคพ ๐Ÿ’ 12:52, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
    I voted against banning him last time, because they had been a useful and productive editor in the past and I felt (erroneously) that it was too much about some people with differing politics driving the ban. But after his most recent return, Raven has done literally nothing except trolled talk pages and personally insulted various users. Even Nobs and LT try to guise their trolling as partisan political hackery. There is absolutely nothing redeeming about GR's behavior here. He's just here to be an abusive prick.
    Fortunately it's pretty clear by now that he'll be banned. I don't think I've ever seen a coop vote that is as big of a landslide for banning someone as this before (and I used to read coop archives for entertainment years before actually starting to edit here). Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 13:23, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
    [EC] Yeah thatโ€™s completely fair! Although I changed to abstain, I also initially voted to not ban as well, bc I thought it wasnโ€™t a good idea to come to a decision while the community standards vote was happening. When I talk about justifying โ€œthis kind of shitโ€, I specifically mean these types of actions rather than their behaviour as a whole or whatever โ€” specifically, I mean people who would say things like that action XYZ wasnโ€™t actually bad because of some other factor. Of course, the argument that it wasnโ€™t enough of a pattern, that there were sometimes/often mitigating circumstances, that they were useful to the wiki as a whole, stuff related to the rules etc are all perfectly reasonable arguments, even if I disagree with most of them. I also want to make it VERY clear that Iโ€™m very much talking in the context of this particular situation โ€” as said, I still donโ€™t know enough to say confidently whether my suspicions were justified the last time around (though they ended up being true, I canโ€™t say for certain whether it would be correct to say that back when the last vote was happening).
    All that being said, it wasnโ€™t really my intention to cast judgement on ANYONE involved in that particular vote anyway, and I was kind of just trying to make a rhetorical flourish to really emphasise my main point, which is that I think this incident is so far beyond the pale that I think itโ€™s very important that the wiki is unified in telling GR to bugger off. I also want to say that I am sorry for making it sound like an attack or judgement or anything else, because I donโ€™t actually think anything bad about you or most people involved in the vote, and I especially donโ€™t want to hurt, insult or upset anyone in that regard. I kind of want to edit my comment to make that clearer, but I also think thereโ€™s a general stigma about editing comments in a way that could be misleading? If itโ€™s okay with everyone else, though, I think I will do that now, and if not, please feel free to revert.
    As an addendum, I think that I will just take the initiative to collapse this one myself, and again, if anyone disagrees, feel free to revert. ๐Ÿ’ ASELAเค•เฅเคฐเคพ ๐Ÿ’ 14:19, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
    Don't worry Asela, I didn't take your initial comment as going after me or others who made the wrong judgement back then. I simply wanted to make clear that I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and I was wrong in that. By that point, he clearly should have lost any and all benefit of the doubt. I was wrong. I'm voting with vengeance to rectify my earlier mistake and to bring an end the harm to this wiki that it has caused and continues to cause. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 14:58, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Invalid votes[edit]

Circular's Proposal[edit]

I suggest that we also sysoprevoke GR, as a safety precaution, so he can't cause as much trouble if another sysop screws up. What does the mob think? --Goatspeed. E pluribus unum๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธCircularREmail2.gifasoning๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ-->Prototype lab 20:00, 23 November 2020 (UTC)


  1. See above. --Goatspeed. E pluribus unum๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธCircularREmail2.gifasoning๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ-->Prototype lab 20:00, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  2. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 20:02, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  3. Kinda thought this was implied by the permaban sanction. Pizza SLICE.gifChef Moosoliniโ€™s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 20:13, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  4. A reasonable precaution in case the perma doesn't go through. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 20:18, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  5. Per Sirius.-Flandres (talk) 20:19, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  6. I'll support this. CoryUsar (talk) 20:21, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  7. Bongolian (talk) 20:27, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  8. ShabiDOO 20:33, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  9. To reiterate my voat above. โ€”cosmikdebris talk stalk 20:53, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  10. ๐Ÿ’ ASELAเค•เฅเคฐเคพ ๐Ÿ’ 12:57, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
  11. Fine. It's unnecessary with the ban clearly passing, but I'll vote for it out of sheer spite against the cunt. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 13:28, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
  12. There is no ban like overban.16:26, 26 November 2020 (UTC) — Unsigned, by: Summa Atheologica / talk / contribs
  13. --It's-a me, Lgm sigpic.png LeftyGreenMario! 23:54, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

No sysrevoke[edit]


  1. That's about as dumb as you are. Well, it fits. Why sysoprevoke someone who is going to be permabanned? Shit makes no sense. โ€” Godless Raven SDAPOe logo.svg talkstalkwalkbalk ๐ŸŒน Flag of Europe.svg 20:03, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  2. GR isn't a sysop anyway. I doubt anyone wants to make him one either. Should this coop result in ban (as seems likely right now), any attempt to give him sysop would be contravening that coop resolution and could be quickly undone (and we could also take issue with whomever gave him the mop). I think this is unnecessary for the moment. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 20:15, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
Sysoprevoke doesn't mean we take away Sysop. It means that the mop can never be returned, permanently. We have new users all the time, and a year from now if a new sysop decides to mop GR the user wouldn't be able to. CoryUsar (talk) 17:16, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
GR was once Sysop, so Sysoprevoke is meaningful. Bongolian (talk) 18:26, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
I'd still argue it's symbolic. He isn't sysop now, I'd be surprised if anyone would make him one again and even if that happened, it could be quickly undone by another sysop or a mod. But I moved to vote for sysoprevoke because I hate the guy. Symbolic or not, it's cathartic at the very least. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 18:33, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Premature attempt to close case[edit]

So... it looks like it's been more than 48 hours since the vote was opened. I guess the result is Sysoprevoke, and a ban length of infinity plus 22 days. CoryUsar (talk) 19:46, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Revoked and blocked. Can still edit own talk page.
Or create a new account with a new name I suppose. CoryUsar (talk) 19:51, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
As GR noted, this vote was started prematurely ("Any vote started within 48 hours of filing will be deleted and you will be blocked."), however that is a statement at the top of this page. It is not actually in the RationalWiki:Community Standards, so it has no consequence in this case. The community standards do however stated, "Both policy votes and penalty votes must last between seven and fourteen days." So, the vote should stay open for 7 days minimum.
As to GR creating a new account after what appears likely to be a permaban, yes, that's theoretically possible. But GR would have to completely avoid reference to GR and not act in such a way as to indicate that she/he is GR. I would also like to caution GR not to engage in fights or be disruptive until the vote ends. If you do, GR, I will block you and put you in Sysoprevoke until the vote ends. Yes, there is precedent for this. Bongolian (talk) 20:06, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
@CorruptUser @Bongolian I dealt with it, you're both fucking welcome. โ˜ญComrade GCโ˜ญMinistry of Praise 20:13, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Thank you? CoryUsar (talk) 20:15, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, I apologize Bongolion. I will now adorn myself with the Cone of Shame. Wait, do we have some template to admit stupid? There's the wet trout. Maybe the stop being silly thingy.
...I miss FCP.CoryUsar (talk) 20:32, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
No problem, CoryUsar. Bongolian (talk) 20:49, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
The cone of shame has been collecting dust and I think it is full of water damage. Maybe we should just buy a new one? ShabiDOO 21:02, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Close (attempt 2)[edit]

Voting has now been open for 7 days (the minimum required by the Community standards) and the votes have been very one-sided. I move that this coop be closed and archived. --RWRW (talk) 21:53, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Good by me. Please end it already. ๐ŸŽ„Chef Moosoliniโ€™s Ristorante Italiano๐ŸŽ„Ask about our holiday specials! 22:35, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
What Duce said.-Flandres (talk) 22:40, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
The moment of reckoning has come. It is time to yeet the bird once and for all. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 22:54, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
Let's wrap up this sad tale of Raven's brief come back. ShabiDOO 22:56, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
I concur. I doubt 7 more days are changing the way the wind is blowing. Even those that suggested other punishments didn't vote against the perma. The votes are very lopsided on perma and sysoprevoke. I say it's time to put this issue to rest. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 23:02, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
Yeah I donโ€™t think Iโ€™ve seen 19 votes to ban before. ๐ŸŽ„Chef Moosoliniโ€™s Ristorante Italiano๐ŸŽ„Ask about our holiday specials! 23:28, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
Give it another day or two to make sure it it considers the early start of the vote. As GR pointed out, the discussion should have gone for at least 48 hours before the vote began, so the vote should be extended accordingly. I just want this to be as official and by the book as possible. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 23:49, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
As Bongolian mentioned in the above section, the โ€˜48 hourโ€™ rule is not currently on the Community Standards page so questions can be made about how official it is. After some tedious searching, I was able to trace the โ€˜48 hourโ€™ rule back to this edit, which was seemingly removed from the Community Standards page here. At no point was 48 hours mentioned on the community standards page so Iโ€™m fairly certain it was plucked out of thin air without mob support. But, in the avoidance of accusations of voter suppression, I won't oppose keeping this open for another until 2 December. --RWRW (talk) 06:32, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

โ”Œโ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”€โ”˜Well after reading that I don't really care if it gets closed sooner either. Feel free to ban and archive. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 09:16, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

So from what I can see, the wording started just as a "don't open votes prematurely". In that case, I would say that it's a coop guideline and should probably be reworded back to it's CS implementation, with perhaps a warning of "don't open a case with a vote", which seems to have been the intent. That said to avoid any bickering and future rules lawyering, I'm fine keeping the votes open until December 2nd just to ensure that GR gets a clean cutoff. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / Pencil.png / Tux icon.png / Shield.png) 11:36, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
It would likely be best to keep the coop open until December second. โ˜ญComrade GCโ˜ญMinistry of Praise 14:55, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
It's December 3. I've banned him. It's over. Spud (talk) 13:19, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Death of the raven[edit]

"There are ways in which he can return." --Dumbledore. HairlessCat (talk) 13:31, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

And he'll get blocked for ban evasion if he does. Spud (talk) 13:39, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
Raven Wars 2: Electric Boogaloo. โ€” Oxyaena Harass 13:40, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
Star Wars: Return of the Raven. ๐ŸŽ„Chef Moosoliniโ€™s Ristorante Italiano๐ŸŽ„Ask about our holiday specials! 15:02, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
This sendoff is more than he deserves. โ˜ญComrade GCโ˜ญMinistry of Praise 15:17, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
"The dark side of the MediaWiki is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be... unnatural..." ~Darth Sidious --Goatspeed. E pluribus unum๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธCircularREmail2.gifasoning๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ-->Prototype lab 16:19, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
We shall see him, nevermore.
I'll be here all week! Be sure to tip your waitress! CoryUsar (talk) 16:21, 2 December 2020 (UTC)
"At last, the raven shall quoth abuses at us nevermore." May I archive this shitstorm? --Goatspeed. E pluribus unum๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธCircularREmail2.gifasoning๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ-->Prototype lab 16:26, 2 December 2020 (UTC)