RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive10

This is an archive page, last updated 14 April 2010. Please do not make edits to this page.

Archives for this talk page:

<1>, <2>, <3>, <4>, <5>, <6>, <7>, <8>, <9>, <11>, <12>, <13>, <14>, <15>, <16>, <17>, <18>, <19>, <20>, <21>, <22>, <23>, <24>, <25>, <26>, <27>, <28>, <29>, <30>, <31>, <32>, <33>, <34>, <35>, <36>, <37>, <38>, <39>, <40>, <41>, <42>, <43>, <44>, <45>, <46>, <47>, <48>, <49>, <50>, <51>, <52>, <53>, <54>, <55>, <56>, <57>, <58>, <59>, <60>, <61>, <62>, <63>, <64>, <65>, <66>, <67>, <68>, <69>, <70>, <71>, <72>, <73>, <74>, <75>, <76>, <77>, <78>, <79>, <80>, <81>, <82>, <83>, <84>, <85>, <86>, <87>, <88>, <89>, <90>, <91>, <92>, <93>, <94>, <95>, <96>, <97>, <98>, <99>, <100>, <101>, <102>, <103>, <104>, <105>, <106>, <107>, <108>, <109>, <110>, <111>, <112>, <113>, <114>, <115>, <116>, <117>, <118>, <119>, <120>, <121>, <122>, <123>, <124>, <125>, <126>, <127>, <128>, <129>, <130>, <131>, <132>, <133>, <134>, <135>, <136>, <137>, <138>, <139>, <140>, <141>, <142>, <143>, <144>, <145>, <146>, <147>, <148>, <149>, <150>, <151>, <152>, <153>, <154>, <155>, <156>, <157>, <158>, <159>, <160>, <161>, <162>, <163>, <164>, <165>, <166>, <167>, <168>, <169>, <170>, <171>, <172>, <173>, <174>, <175>, <176>, <177>, <178>, <179>, <180>, <181>, <182>, <183>, <184>, <185>, <186>, <187>, <188>, <189>, <190>, <191>, <192>, <193>, <194>, <195>, <196>, <197>, <198>, <199>, <200>, <201>, <202>, <203>, <204>, <205>, <206>, <207>, <208>, <209>, <210>, <211>, <212>, <213>, <214>, <215>, <216>, <217>, <218>, <219>, <220>, <221>, <222>, <223>, <224>, <224½>, <225>, <226>, <227>, <228>, <229>, <230>, <231>, <232>, <233>, <234>, <235>, <236>, <237>, <238>, <239>, <240>, <241>, <242>, <243>, <244>, <245>, <246>, <247>, <248>, <249>, <250>, <251>, <252>, <253>, <254>, <255>, <256>, <257>, <258>, <259>, <260>, <261>, <262>, <263>, <264>, <265>, <266>, <267>, <268>, <269>, <270>, <271>, <272>, <273>, <274>, <275>, <276>, <277>, <278>, <279>, <280>, <281>, <282>, <283>, <284>, <285>, <286>, <287>, <288>, <289>, <290>, <291>, <292>, <293>, <294>, <295>, <296>, <297>, <298>, <299>, <300>, <301>, <302>, <303>, <304>, <305>, <306>, <307>, <308>, <309>, <310>, <311>, <312>, <313>, <314>, <315>, <316>, <317>, <318>, <319>, <320>, <321>, <322>, <323>, <324>, <325>, <326>, <327>, <328>, <329>, <330>, <331>, <332>, <333>, <334>, <335>, <336>, <337>, <338>, <339>, <340>, <341>, <342>, <343>, <344>, <345>, <346>, <347>, <348>, <349>, <350>, <351>, <352>, <353>, <354>, <355>, <356>, <357>, <358>, <359>, <360>, <361>, <362>, <363>, <364>, <365>, <366>, <367>, <368>, <369>, <370>, <371>, <372>, <373>, <374>, <375>, <376>, <377>, <378>, <379>, <380>, <381>, <382>, <383>, <384>, <385>, <386>, <387>, <388>, <389>, <390>, <391>, <392>, <393>, <394>, <395>, <396>, <397>, <398>, <399>, <400>, <401>, <402>, <403>, <404>, <405>, <406>, <407>, <408>, <409>, <410>, <411>, <412>, <413>, <414>, <415>, <416>, <417>, <418>, <419>, <420>, <421>, <422>, <423>, <424>, <425>, <426>, <427>, <428>, <429>, <430>, <431>, <432>, <433>, <434>, <435>, <436>, <437>, <438>, <439>, <440>, <441>, <442>, <443>, <444>, <445>, <446>, <447>, <448>, <449>, <450>, <451>, <452>, <453>, <454>, <455>, <456>, <457>, <458>, <459>, <460>, <461>, <462>, <463>, <464>, <465>, <466>, <467>, <468>

, (new)(back)

Two new opinions up from the USSC

1. They agreed that states have the right to make a law denying gun ownership to persons convicted of spousal abuse. This was a unanimous decision, mind you. Scalia, alito and Thomas REGULATED gun ownership. Shocking. (Roberts is an uber states-rights guy, so his agreement didn't surprise me, since it was a local law.
2. A unanimous decision (with FIVE concurring opinions, sheesh) saying a small town had the right to determine which monuments were approved. This one, I must say, went over my head. Ive read the case, skimmed the Opinions (the slips just came out, so I haven't read in detail) and still don't know how you get 9 members to agree on teh "what", but be so different on the "why". --En attendant Godot_{"«I think like a genius, I write like a distinguished author, and I speak like a child. --V.Nabokov»} 15:45, 25 February 2009 (EST)

Sometimes I wonder if you are desensitized to the color red. Word evil Hoover! 16:06, 25 February 2009 (EST)

To Godot, I think that most people, even those who favor gun ownership (I am one of them) don't have any qualms about regulating it... It's really only a few idiots from the NRA who think that anybody, regardless of past actions should be able to own military grade assault weapons... I am pleased with the ruling, and I also did a double take on that... Same results, nine different thought processes.... How strange... One last thing: Phantom.... What the hell are you talking about? SirChuckB^{A product of Affirmative Action} 16:56, 25 February 2009 (EST)

As has been said before, you don't need an uzi to hunt deer. Z3ro^talk 18:21, 25 February 2009 (EST)

That depends entirely on how well the deer are armed... Also we probably shouldn't talk deer hunting around CUR.-- Antifly ^{Now with 50% less retirement!} 19:43, 25 February 2009 (EST)

Hi there. --"C, U R^{the dismal, writeing Xbox One.} 16:11, 26 February 2009 (EST)

Quick! Hide the bows, arrows and Uzis! Word evil Hoover! 16:48, 26 February 2009 (EST)

Re: Phantom - WfG's speelinge premusably flagged by redd unnderlynes & iggnoard by WfG? _and marmite 18:11, 25 February 2009 (EST)

I;ve always thought the whole "hunting is a great sport" thing kinda stupid... I mean, the point of most sporting contests is an equal starting point... For example, wrestling and boxing have weight classes, MMA bodies usually won't sanction a fight if one party is vastly superior to the other, and most pro sports have salary caps and other things in place... But hunting is completely one sided from the start... If you want sport while hunting, hunt as our ancestors did: loin cloth, spear, and a lion out in the distance. SirChuckB^{A product of Affirmative Action} 19:47, 25 February 2009 (EST)

I like your idea better. --"C, U R^{the dismal, writeing Xbox One.} 16:11, 26 February 2009 (EST)

I do hunt with a bow and arrow, and I am pretty damn good at it. And let me tell you, there are very few meats quite as good as a fresh venison with corn bread and taters. ĴάΛäšςǍ₰ watches retarded governors swirl

True, but very few animals have mastered the art of lethal projectile weapons. Word evil Hoover! 12:02, 26 February 2009 (EST)

I'll give you a bow and arrow... Depending on the model, are we talking compound bow with pulleys and extra pressure? or a simple recurve bow? SirChuckB^{A product of Affirmative Action} 12:03, 26 February 2009 (EST)

I eschew compound bows and go all the way back to recurve bows. ĴάΛäšςǍ₰ watches retarded governors swirl

In my opinion, for it to be a true sport, the combatants start off "equal", as said. So the question is, do we start with a naked human in the woods, who has to make their own weapons, while surviving, or are some tech things allowed to "equalize" the human with the animal(s), which may have horns, claws, fangs, or cute widdle fuzzy tails (or freaking wings, for that matter - how fair is it that the animal can fly away)? ħuman 22:13, 26 February 2009 (EST)

Or do we just question the morality of what amounts to killing animals for the fun of it? Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 22:19, 26 February 2009 (EST)

I do not just kill animals "for the fun of it". We kill them for food, and I assure you that killing one deer is quite enough to have a nice meal for a while before going for the next one. By the same logic, I don't kill a hen unless we want chicken for dinner, nor do I kill a rabbit unless we want rabbit for dinner. Hunting is a sport, but anyone who "kills for fun" is merely being an asshole by taking the hunt away from people who would otherwise have had the experience. ĴάΛäšςǍ₰ watches retarded governors swirl

Do you need the food from it? Or is it just something nice? Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 22:38, 26 February 2009 (EST)

I suspect 'scap needs food to live, yes. I also try not to kill plants unless I need to eat them, too. Oh, and can I whine about "USSC"? The correct abbreviation is "SCOTUS". ħuman 23:02, 26 February 2009 (EST)

(EC) I saw a lorry the other day with SCOTUS scrawled into the dirt on its back. Can I now assume that the Supreme Court now delivers its verdicts personally? Totnesmartin 04:06, 27 February 2009 (EST)

I dispute the term "sport" for hunting. If you hunt to gather food then as a carnivore I find that perfectly acceptable. If one hunts to control vermin like rabbits or squirrels (although you could also eat them) then that is a necessity caused by mankind's distortion of the eco-system. If one hunts to stick a moose-head on one's wall or a lion skin in front of the hearth then that is some sort of machismo and you're a total plonker. None of this is "sport" in the modern sense of the word. Historically it has been "a diversion for pleasure" but killing an animal purely for pleasure is just sick. Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 04:04, 27 February 2009 (EST)

Hence my positing placing the naked human in the woods, to play the game from the "start" position. And my questions as to whether certain animals then have an unfair advantage (see the Audi ad campaign in the mid-80s). Otherwise, is killing "sport"? Of course not. ħuman 04:09, 27 February 2009 (EST)

Also, see the lyric "killing and eating for entertainment" here, for less clarification on my position on this issue. ħuman 04:11, 27 February 2009 (EST)

One, aren't we getting we getting sport confused, or at least inappropriately comingled with contest? Bee, by the time we're quibbling over whether recirved bows versus compond bows are fair I might as well use UAV's with smart bombs. I'm with CUR (ahem . . et al) on this one, tooth and claw are the only way to make it interesting. ^Me!Sheesh!_Mine! 19:10, 27 February 2009 (EST)

And Heifer whines could be human cries

Outback's them song.

BBCR7

Hit it with a hammer. Word evil Hoover! 13:04, 26 February 2009 (EST)

Modem repair kit. ħuman 22:14, 26 February 2009 (EST)

Eddy Izzard's on right now: New Testament. Catch it! or again at 4.am. _and marmite 18:08, 25 February 2009 (EST)

If I had an internet connection that didn't disconnect itself every ten minutes, that'd be good. Totnesmartin 12:56, 26 February 2009 (EST)

Sysop right

Guys, it is the standard procedure here to give sysops rights to anyone who contributed a few months and is not a vandal ? Because I have sysop rights now, I don't know why. Is it a mistake ? Barraki 12:03, 26 February 2009 (EST)

It has become policy to give sysop rights/obligations to anyone who has contributed for a few days without being a vandal. That's how we roll. TheoryOfPractice 12:05, 26 February 2009 (EST)

A few months? I've made people sysop after less than a week. Word evil Hoover! 12:05, 26 February 2009 (EST)

Wow, I always thought you had to work hard, tow the line doing ridiculous "clean up edits" without saying anything that would tick off the powers that be, make sure you don't "talk talk talk" too much unless it is to report suspect vandals and parodists, and then start a campaign of kissing butt. Isn't that how we operate here?--En attendant Godot_{"«I think like a genius, I write like a distinguished author, and I speak like a child. --V.Nabokov»} 12:07, 26 February 2009 (EST)

That was special for you, actually. --Kels 13:27, 26 February 2009 (EST)

I hate it when people say "tow the line" when the phrase is "toe the line". Pet peeve (among others, like "persay"), over and out. ħuman 03:56, 27 February 2009 (EST)

<offtopic>I'm the same. I always remember it as a naval term that from sailors having to line up for inspection on the deck of a ship along a particular line - although there are other claims to origin. I just remember naval terms I guess - 'to the bitter end' 'three sheets to the wind', 'in the offing', 'by and large' - I'll stop being a boat geek now</offtopic> Worm ^{(t | c)} 04:09, 27 February 2009 (EST)

I'm kinda like that with people who screw up "tough row to hoe". --Kels 19:28, 27 February 2009 (EST)

I thinks its a wonderful trait to RW. This is now the second time I've been given sysop rights and I actually demanded them. Its good because on wikipedia being a sysop is like the holy grail, some really sad people see sysopship as 'acceptance', or some other crap (Though why anyone would want to be accepted on an internet site I'm not too sure) Then there are those who come out with cringy phrases like 'prominent members', like this website is some sort of progressive social ladder. Then there are even more crazy statements like 'respected members' etc. Its all a bit sad to create a hierarchal society on the internet, where 95% of people are either lying or exaggerating about their real lives. Frankly, the internet is all well and good as a place to experiment with writing, discussing, debating, flaming even if thats your thing, but sometimes superficial pursuits like sysopship become a real life status for people, and thats when things get very sad. Its good that RW places no emphasis on it. MarcusCicero 13:38, 26 February 2009 (EST)

Nice sentiments, just don't abuse the "rights" this time, OK? It 's all about trust here, unlike CP where everything is based on distrust. BTW, CP's down for me at the moment, anyone else? Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 14:21, 26 February 2009 (EST)

Human, wow. I had no idea it was toe, like the piggie on your foot. I just assumed it had to be "to tow, to pull". Thanks. Now I know, and at least from me, you won't see it wrong again! The things you learn.--En attendant Godot_{"«I think like a genius, I write like a distinguished author, and I speak like a child. --V.Nabokov»} 16:18, 27 February 2009 (EST)

Hehe, cool. I hope you didn't take my rant too personally. HeartOfGold used to write it wrong all the friggin' time in his comments, but he was so busy being wrong/trolling in so many other ways, I never got around to bitching about it back then. Of course, I'm glad that 1. he is probably still writing it wrong, and 2. you won't be. Because your comments don't deserve to be nit-picked. ħuman 20:50, 27 February 2009 (EST)

It's probably a mute point anyway. ^Me!Sheesh!_Mine! 21:41, 27 February 2009 (EST)

Hehe, "mute court", hehe... ħuman 21:17, 28 February 2009 (EST)

IP edits @ Wikipedia

I loged out of WP & got a "Messages" message: There were dozens of warnings; my IP (which is assigned at apparent random by my ISP) has been wandalising WP. Will the mud stick to me? _and marmite 01:21, 27 February 2009 (EST)

Are you using a dynamic IP, or are you stuck with the former troublemaker's IP forever? Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 01:32, 27 February 2009 (EST)

Narr, it's different every log on, within a range of course, Hutchison UK, I think it is. _and marmite 01:39, 27 February 2009 (EST)

(EC, Rawr) It shouldn't be a big deal, WP is used to dealing with dynamic IP attacks. My entire range, 220.240..(Hi TK!) was temporarily blocked for two weeks at WP but it didn't affect me, because WP realized that the range was used for an ISP that hands out IPs randomly so they allowed all registered users to bypass the block. I'd also like to add that the block was not my doing, I have suspicions about a certain friend with the same IP-range however... -Redback^G'day 01:42, 27 February 2009 (EST)

I also got zapped with an IP block at WP owing to my dynamic IP allocation. My IP can also change several times a day even with always on ADSL as out local exchange is rather flaky. However, as a logged on user then I have no problems. Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 04:08, 27 February 2009 (EST)

Without going to deeply into the gory details, Wikipedia has a vast amount of experience with dynamic IPs, particularly as in the early days AOL was a favored route for attacks because of its extremely volatile IP allocation policy. Unless your edits bear distinct stylistic similarities to those of vandalizing editors, your reputation won't be harmed by the vandal edits. The Mediawiki software has been refined to deal with this kind of problem so that logged-in editors are no longer routinely finding their edits blocked just because non-logged-in editors are vandalizing on the same IP and the range has been blocked. --Tony Sidaway 23:58, 27 February 2009 (EST)

Hoax-Slayer

I've just found out about a website called Hoax-Slayer, which aims to debunk hoax emails etc. Does anyone here use it? Is it any good? Totnesmartin 03:48, 27 February 2009 (EST)

I find it a useful and accurate site. I fix a lot of people's computers around town, so they're forever sending me those annoying "Virus alert, not a hoax, forward to everyone you know!!!one!!!111!" emails. I use HS to find out whether it's real or not (accompanied by a google search), then reply to the person who sent me the email with a link to HS. HS always seems to be spot on, and its claims can usually be substantiated by the larger security companies (Symantec, Mcaffee etc). As of this date, not a single "warning" email I've ever received has turned out to be legit, and I really, really wish people would stop sending them to me as the emails are viruses in their own right. -Redback^G'day 04:05, 27 February 2009 (EST)

I dunno, I usually just go to snopes if I am curious. ħuman 04:06, 27 February 2009 (EST)

For RW's purposes, they also seem to debunk circular emails with a political motive (eg all that "Obama is a Muslim" crap). Totnesmartin 04:10, 27 February 2009 (EST)

Well then, shall we explore? By which I mean, will you write an article <ed poor>at the fifth grade level I can understand</ed poor> since I sure as hell am too lazy to do such these days? ħuman 04:15, 27 February 2009 (EST)

Actually I was hoping someone else would do it for me :) OK then, I'll have a read of the site and fiddle with an article. I'll try not to use any long words though! Totnesmartin 04:24, 27 February 2009 (EST)

Werds longr thn 2 sylbles are bad for a wiki make dumb brains confuzd. ħuman 04:30, 27 February 2009 (EST)

Doesn't Snopes do the same thing? Word evil Hoover! 12:38, 27 February 2009 (EST)

RANT WARNING

People say "when you have children, you'll understand that such screams are just his joy of being a child" or "Isn't that laugh of the child just inspiring". No, Damnit, because I am at a Governmental Law firm, not a day care; because I am trying to do research on the tribal associates of the Colorado River and the Ute, over a claim; simply because I am at work. shouting THE OFFICE IS NOT A PLACE FOR CHILDREN, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO ARE OF AN AGE TO WANT TO RUN, YELL AND SCREAM. Call me a washed up dyke-type who has no mothering instinct, so what. DO NOT BRING YOUR CHILDREN TO WORK. even if you are just "showing them off". I don't care about them, and they are seriously driving me to want to get a gun an do damage to this office. (end of rant, sorry)--En attendant Godot_{"«I think like a genius, I write like a distinguished author, and I speak like a child. --V.Nabokov»} 16:16, 27 February 2009 (EST)

Aw, they sound cute. Are they cute? Are they really cute? Would your say they were pretty cute? What about too cute? Would you call them too cute? They sound pretty cute. (end of poking with stick)_ 18:59, 27 February 2009 (EST)

But Godot, I believe the children are the future. Actually, I'm right with you. Offices, restaurants, movie theatres and shopping malls should treat parents with their small children the same way they treat smokers--either but them in an entirely different room or not even let them in. Your kids aren't cute or precious, they're kind of annoying. "The real truth about children is they don't speak the language very well. They're physically uncoordinated. And they are ignorant of our elaborate ideas about right and wrong." -P.J. Rourke. TheoryOfPractice 19:44, 27 February 2009 (EST)

Let's see.... my kids are almost 5, just turned 3, and the twins are 2 months old. Does this mean you guys don't want to babysit?? Sightblinder 09:44, 28 February 2009 (EST)

<sigh> Bring 'em round then! I love kids (but they do need a good sauce or they clog up the teeth a bit - & three's four's too many at a sitting so you'd better all come too) _and marmite 10:04, 28 February 2009 (EST)

Kids are great. You can teach them to hate the things you hate. Z3ro^talk 11:59, 28 February 2009 (EST)

Kids are fine when 1) they are your own, 2)you are in a place to expect kids. I would never begruge a kid the right to scream and laugh and run to his heart's content at a zoo, at a playground, even in a bus station or airport. Dennys (if you have those), Village Inn, Pizza joints are all places I go with the expectation of children being there and being kids. But work (cept on "bring your parents to work day) and nicer restaurants are places where you should bring children only if you intend to gag them and tie them up. What is worse, is that this kid in question is the son of one of the lawyers, and I'm only a paralegal. So he just thinks it's our jobs (secretary, paralegals and receptionists) to care for his kid. We also do his dishes. "ah, class system in place." --En attendant Godot_{"«I think like a genius, I write like a distinguished author, and I speak like a child. --V.Nabokov»} 11:04, 1 March 2009 (EST)

Do your part to stop the irritant that are children—embrace celibacy! I have, and it works wonders at preventing children—so far, so good! Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 18:48, 1 March 2009 (EST)

Sterilization works just as well and is much more fun... ħuman 20:06, 1 March 2009 (EST)

Does this explain why there are no little Huw Powells running around New Hampshire? Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 20:16, 1 March 2009 (EST)

Never liked loud screaming children. They drive me up the wall. I don't blame you at all. --"C, U R^{the dismal, constructing Xbox One.} 20:11, 1 March 2009 (EST)

There are those who would include you among their ranks, CUR. : ) Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 20:15, 1 March 2009 (EST)

I have two kids myself and I have NEVER hesitated in saying to the server "Just box it up and let me pay. I guess I was wrong in thinking they would behave tonight." NORMALLY, my daughter (2) is pretty well-behaved and my son (6 months) just sleeps or takes a bottle, but on those occasions where they even START to get out of line, I excuse my whole family from the situation as a courtesy to everyone else. (P.S. Two is all society is getting from me... I had the surgeon make sure of that.) The Foxhole Atheist 11:58, 3 March 2009 (EST)

As long as we're on the subject of children, PalMD has a really adorable post on his blog about his. I don't like kids much (or at all, really), but it still made me want to go "Awwwww..." Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 02:23, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Attenborough

Sir David was on the Jonathan Ross show last night. Watch it here within the next few days (I think it only works in the UK; sorry). Among other things he talked about fossils, copulating fish, climate change, creationism, agnosticism, and cryptozoology. Wẽãšẽĩõĩď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 10:16, 28 February 2009 (EST)

Another Darwin Article...

They're coming fast and furious these days... TheoryOfPractice 11:23, 28 February 2009 (EST)

Well, what do you expect? It is the 200th anniversity of his birthday. --"C, U R^{the dismal, constructing Xbox One.} 11:49, 28 February 2009 (EST)

Photothief

So, do you want me to upload any of these? I will go along with the mob.

1. Nice picture
2. Extinct species, might be useful in any article on China we have (I think it's their national animal)
3. The golden toad, extinct due to global warming
4. Again, neat picture
5. Holy **** is that huge!

Any more will be added in a seperate list once this round of voting has been decided. All of these are from wikipedia. --"C, U R^{the dismal, constructing Xbox One.} 17:40, 28 February 2009 (EST)

You say global warming killed these animals, but global warming does not exist. DSFARGEG 17:43, 28 February 2009 (EST)

Are you a Poe or real? --"C, U R^{the dismal, constructing Xbox One.} 17:43, 28 February 2009 (EST)

I am whatever I want to be. Pretty deep, huh?DSFARGEG 17:47, 28 February 2009 (EST)

CUR, you use the term "Poe" far to much... especially here, when 99% of the users will be just yankin' yer tail-Diadochus 20:29, 28 February 2009 (EST)

They're all awesome pics, but why would you want to upload any of them? You haven't told us any purpose yet. --Kels 17:54, 28 February 2009 (EST)

CUR, the golden toad extinction's cause is still in debate, and global warming as a cause only has minority support. El nino is a better candidate, apparently. the Baiji dolphin isn't China's national animal. That's the dragon (traditional) and panda (modern). Totnesmartin 18:03, 28 February 2009 (EST)

Last time I checked, El Nino was believed to have been enhanced/triggered early/whatever by global warming. As for the dolphin, turns out that it is the national marine mammal of Pakistan. The Ganges river dolphin is Platanista gangetica gangetica and Indus River Dolphin is Platanista gangetica minor. --"C, U R^{the dismal, constructing Xbox One.} 19:52, 28 February 2009 (EST)

AMERICA IS FAT AND STUPID

CHINA IS STRONG ^{— Unsigned, by: DSFARGEG / talk / contribs 18:21, 28 February 2009 (EST)}

No to all, without looking. The point is not to upload pretty pictures, it is to illustrate articles. Article first, picture later. ħuman 21:06, 28 February 2009 (EST)

You have to admit the lobster is really adorable. V.v.V Who could eat such beauties?-Diadochus 21:14, 28 February 2009 (EST)

Human's right on this one. Not a photo server, but a snarkopedia.--Tom Moore^{fiat justitia ruat coelum} 00:21, 2 March 2009 (EST)

1. 1 looks like me after reading one of Andy's graded homeworks... --SpinyNorman 09:48, 3 March 2009 (EST)

I remembered this quote and it reminded me of CP

Arthur Conan Doyle once said, "mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself, but talent instantly recognizes genius." - Discuss. Totnesmartin 05:05, 1 March 2009 (EST)

"Andrew Schlafly knows nothing higher than himself, but AmesG instantly recognizes genius." ^_^ --Yossie^{Spring in Fialta} 00:47, 2 March 2009 (EST) I think of Ames as the Antischlafly.

I've often thought that one can only discern relative "intelligence" in those with less than oneself - all those who are more intelligent are just that - "smarter than me", there's no way to tell them apart. Not that that has much to do with the question, but I thought I'd kittenpuppy it in there. ħuman 22:15, 2 March 2009 (EST)

Not so sure there. I'd say Dawkins is cleverer than me (actually, until my second coffee, my freaking garden table is cleverer than me), but a Mr S. Hawking is cleverer than him. Totnesmartin 05:52, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Hah! I am firmly convinced that I am the most intelligent person on the planet, however without such things as perseverance and a liking for hard work, it can't be proved. In other words: I can't be bothered most of the time. There's probably Masai (sp?) warriors and New Guinea tribesmen who are just as intelligent - it's no good without the rest of the stuff to bring it out. _and marmite 06:04, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Aww...

Where on earth did that kid learn these words from. I am somewhat doubting the parental abilities of the parents in that house. ĵ₳¥ášÇ♠ʘ A sig not even he can predict!

I thought it was cute, actually. --Kels 14:59, 1 March 2009 (EST)

Fuck the both of you. TheoryOfPractice 15:04, 1 March 2009 (EST)

There is literally no one I do not hate.-Diadochus 15:12, 1 March 2009 (EST)

You just don't like children, ToP. Open your heart! --Kels 15:19, 1 March 2009 (EST)

As soon as I get ahold of a good attorney, I'm suing you to get that minute of my life back. SirChuckB^{A product of Affirmative Action} 15:26, 1 March 2009 (EST)

Ttony21, attorney at law, at your service. I quote Article II, chapter 3, subsection B, of the Millenial Internet Etiquette Act, that sending videos of this nature makes the user, "A supreme jackass." I hereby find the two users guilty, and set their punishment at watching Numa Numa on infinite loop for 1 hour straight. User:Ttony21/sig2 17:36, 1 March 2009 (EST)

I would've sentenced them to watch Rick Astley for an hour on infinite loop, but I guess Numa Numa is torturous, too. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 17:53, 1 March 2009 (EST)

I would be extremely harsh... I would sentence them to watching that stupid "Charlie Bit Me" video followed by the Leave Britney along guy for eight hours straight. SirChuckB^{A product of Affirmative Action} 18:41, 1 March 2009 (EST)

That borders on a violation of the Geneva Convention and 8th amendment (since one is American and one is Canuckistanian). Might as well just send them to Gitmo if Obama hadn't given it the boot. User:Ttony21/sig2 19:09, 1 March 2009 (EST)

I object. The law cited does not exist, as a google search for "Millennial Internet Etiquette Act" reveals. I question the credientals of Ttony21. ĵ₳¥ášÇ♠ʘ A sig not even he can predict!

Ironically, the Millennial Internet Etiquette Act is not available on the internet. If you have access to a law library, however... Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 19:17, 1 March 2009 (EST)

RA is right, plus I have a law degree and everything, see? User:Ttony21/sig2 19:28, 1 March 2009 (EST)

How exactly did I get to be a guilty party here, since I didn't link to it nor encourage anyone to watch it? --Kels 19:29, 1 March 2009 (EST)

I think because you said you thought it was "cute", thus encouraging the impression that the video was actually what Javascap claimed it was about. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 19:32, 1 March 2009 (EST)

ToP went of their own free will! --Kels 19:36, 1 March 2009 (EST)

Lies! You took advantage of a tender, innocent man to mislead him into watching a video that was an awful waste of time! Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 19:48, 1 March 2009 (EST)

And what if it was an old man? Do you think they like to waste the last moments of their life like that? My God what if they had a heart condition? You would be on trial for murder! And yet still, you claim to be guilty of no wrongdoing? You heartless furry bastard. User:Ttony21/sig2 19:51, 1 March 2009 (EST)

Hey! My parents were married, I'll have you know! --Kels 20:05, 1 March 2009 (EST)

Let the record show that Miss Kels has admitted to being a heartless fiend. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.}

(ui)Teach me to check a link before I read the thread. :p I will destroy you, Gentleman Javascap, and your accomplice Lady Kels. You won't know where, you won't know when, you won't even know how...but I will. --Yossie^{Spring in Fialta} 00:54, 2 March 2009 (EST)

Place your bets!

Rush Limbaugh takes on Newt Gingrich!

Oh, can there be anything more entertaining than two hypocritical slimeballs fighting each other over a dead party? Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 18:33, 1 March 2009 (EST)

The Republican's (and to some extent Democrat's) Reagan-fetish is a little creepy.-- Antifly ^{Now with 50% less retirement!} 20:09, 1 March 2009 (EST)

Oh God please don't call it a fetish. It brings rule 34 and horrible images to mind. And I'm not necessarily talking about Reagan. User:Ttony21/sig2 20:15, 1 March 2009 (EST)

Though Reagan-porn would be horrible. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 20:18, 1 March 2009 (EST)

Oh without a doubt, but I was thinking something more along the lines of, "2 cups, 1 Assfly". User:Ttony21/sig2

I've actually never seen "2 girls, 1 cup" (or however it goes), so I am largely spared the horror of what you are imagining. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 20:29, 1 March 2009 (EST)

Treat yourself - just....don't. Ever. DogP 22:17, 2 March 2009 (EST)

concur , either DONT or have the bleach ready Hamster 02:11, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Snow?

Hope all of you in Eastern US are OK, it sounds pretty grim. _and marmite 12:30, 2 March 2009 (EST)

Doing OK on Long Island, I don't think we got hit as bad as some other areas. User:Ttony21/sig2 12:31, 2 March 2009 (EST)

Try living in Chicago. The Emperor_{Kneel before Zod!} 12:32, 2 March 2009 (EST)

I live right on Lake Ontario, so I did not get hit by it at all. I do hope everyone else to the south is doing all right, though. ĵ₳¥ášÇ♠ʘ A sig not even he can predict!

As an update, after about 10 inches I think we're done here, time to start the process of cleanup. *grabs shovel and coat* User:Ttony21/sig2 15:42, 2 March 2009 (EST)

Bone dry in Toronto..... Hee hee..... Sightblinder 18:08, 2 March 2009 (EST)

Ten inches here, too. Just got in from plowing my parking lot and a friend's new driveway. His 300 foot driveway... This year just broke last year's record for the 16 years I've been tracking my snowfall. ħuman 22:21, 2 March 2009 (EST)

Nothing in the Ottawa forecast until Friday, fine by me. But what are these "inches" you speak of? Are they something like a tortise? --Kels 22:26, 2 March 2009 (EST)

"Inches" are the non soviet communist atheist french nazi way of measuring, and it is as AMERICAN as apple π and Andrew Schlafly. The Emperor_{Kneel before Zod!}

Inches are an easy way of saying "twenty five millimeters". See how much typing they save? ħuman 02:53, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Inches are what you think in; centimetres are what you measure in. _and marmite 02:58, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Pft, it's everyone else who's doing extra typing. We're just awesome like that. User:Ttony21/sig2 07:06, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Damn Straight, here in America, we use inches like the good lord Jebus intended. SirChuckB^{A product of Affirmative Action} 22:59, 2 March 2009 (EST)

I think in both systems, but try to use metric. Word evil Hoover! 03:43, 3 March 2009 (EST)

I am glad to say that my driveway is a total of 12 feet long, and 7 feet wide. I did not have too much of a problem, even with the 8 inches of snow I got. -- 23:04, 2 March 2009 (EST)

Snow? We have had our first rainfall of the year, two months it has been and this is the first day it has rained. - User $\scriptstyle h/2\hbar$ 23:29, 2 March 2009 (EST)

I'll bet that was welcomed. _and marmite 02:17, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Well it should help out after someone accidentally left our "river" open and all the water ran out. Fancy water in a river moving what will happen next? - User $\scriptstyle h/2\hbar$ 07:11, 3 March 2009 (EST)

and ironically we've just had flash-floods following heavy storms for the first time ever. Almost double the average rainfall at the moment. But you'd be a godless, commie, public skollar to say anything about climate change. --PsyGremlin_Whut? 03:02, 3 March 2009 (EST)

conservatives major porn users ? newspapers never lie ... or do they ..

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Business/story?id=6977202&page=1

came across this interesting article. Should be a main page story at Conservapedia yes ? Hamster 02:09, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Already covered at talk:wigo CP I think. Also, really crappy science, as the comments point out. ħuman 02:55, 3 March 2009 (EST)

There's a Brit couple of Australian loonyies

"Electronic mail--or "e"-mail--is taking the world by storm!

Creationist Doctor Mark Harwood, whose main qualification seems to be "over 30 years of experience in satellite communication", is making a lecture tour of Scotland and (chiefly North) England in June. Anyone fancy going? _and marmite 05:39, 3 March 2009 (EST)

AND Dr John Hartnett, who is apparently "is an Associate Professor of Physics at one of Australia’s leading universities", is doing similar in April/May. (Can't we breed our own nutters without importing from Oz?) _and marmite 05:45, 3 March 2009 (EST)

I read that site & get ANGRIER and ANGRIER. _and marmite 05:52, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Wow what an impressive page looks top quality. I reckon this guy tried to start his own journal once. - User $\scriptstyle h/2\hbar$ 05:55, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Gentlemen, "e"-mail! Beware his technologic wizardry!!! --Yossie^{Spring in Fialta} 06:33, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Ize e-mailed his uni:

“”Could you please keep your tame idiots in check? Sending them to the UK to annoy intelligent folk is not really on, you know. Isn't it enough that your cricket & rugby teams regularly beat us? Is it just a plot to lull the rest of the world into thinking that all Australians are mentally defective before you throw off the mask of stupidity and take over?

_and marmite 09:54, 3 March 2009 (EST)

I love the so-dated and never made sense phrase "home page". This guy is almost worth AotWing. ħuman 22:43, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Vatican:Darwin

Has this been mentioned anywhere? _and marmite 08:16, 3 March 2009 (EST)

It keeps popping up from time to time that story. - User $\scriptstyle h/2\hbar$ 08:30, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Meanwhile, back at the ranch

Wikipedia are thinking of making their CP article a featured article. I don't think it'll make it - but then I thought Argentina would win the world cup, so what do I know. Discussion here. Totnesmartin 13:35, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Already flagged it on TWIGOCP. _and marmite 13:51, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Silly Proposal

It seems that we have all become Gentlemen, both in Ken's and our own eyes, and the title is almost a badge of (dis)honour (Gentleman Publius, Gentleman Ace, etc...), I propose that the Sysop rights category be renamed Gentleman. 18:46, 3 March 2009 (EST)

I second said notion.The Emperor_{Kneel before Zod!} 18:50, 3 March 2009 (EST)

I kan haz gennelmen?Administrator 18:51, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Will we have a "ladies" group for our female sysops, too? ListenerX^TalkerX 18:55, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Certainly not! Gentleman is an universal term, not to be sullied by feminist political correctness. (And I think Kels has been Gentleman Kels, which is fantastically weird) 19:05, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Reminds me too much of the image on the right. It's originally from /v/ I think, there's a huge series of spinoffs. --GTac 06:29, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Gentlemen

Against

The term gentleman is an anachronism when used to refer to ordinary people. In modern use this is a compliment. So I am against on the moral ground that it sounds too self-congratulatory.

I am also against from on the grounds of practicality. Referring to one another as "gentleman X" is our primary method of affecting Ken-like airs for satiric purposes.-- Antifly ^{Now with 50% less retirement!} 18:57, 3 March 2009 (EST)

I am for this - I have no problem at all being self-congratulatory, because I am awesome (see?) and there is no shortage of ways to mock Ken.--Tom Moore^{fiat justitia ruat coelum} 19:04, 3 March 2009 (EST)

We are definitely not going to run out of ways to mock Ken. But using the term "gentleman" isn't a way of mocking Ken, it's a way of signalling that one is imitating Ken. Just as, TomMoore (your substanceless rant has been deleted), is a way of signalling that you are imitating the assfly (instead of just being a jerk). If we all start calling each other gentleman the distinction is lost.-- Antifly ^{Now with 50% less retirement!} 19:10, 3 March 2009 (EST)

I concur with teh antifly. --"^Input The Resistor^Output 19:14, 3 March 2009 (EST)

I don't think you have earned the right to use the title Gentleman, unless Ken has specifically called you one in a shout out because you taunted him sufficiently (Gentleman Kels still makes me laugh). However I do think it should be a user group as a badge of honour. - User $\scriptstyle h/2\hbar$ 19:36, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Second the user group, sounds like a cool idea although it could turn making fun of Ken into a competition. User:Ttony21/sig2 20:33, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Les Gentlemen de RationalWiki.
Wẽãšẽĩõĩď^{Methinks it is a Weasel}

Wait... it isn't? The Emperor_{Kneel before Zod!} 20:55, 3 March 2009 (EST)

I disapprove of making sysop=gentleman, it is far too CP-centric. However, a specific "gentleman" (for the ladies also) group of some sort... for anyone actually called out by Ken (or PJR?) would be cool. How about a category, or a userbox? ħuman 22:50, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Our new site logo.

I agree on the group thing. It should be for anyone who baits him into calling them that, regardless of gender. --Yossie^{Spring in Fialta} 01:34, 4 March 2009 (EST)

As Human said, far too CP-centric - at least for those of us who couldn't care less about CP. It would appropriate for those who are sufficiently obsessed with Ken though.--Bob^{bing up} 03:39, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Against. I'm with the let's move-on-from-CP school of thought - this is yet another Ken in-joke, and one too far because it forces the Ken shipping onto people who don't necessarily want it. Totnesmartin 05:54, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Essay:Felidae

Might want to give it another look- I think it's about halfway there. If anyone could help with it, that would be nice. I just added quite a few facts about various species. Btw, do you like my new sig? --^Input The Resistor^Output 21:37, 3 March 2009 (EST)

To be perfectly frank - I dont see why it would ever be mainspace. Its kinda a pet project thats not really "on mission". Thats just my humble opinion though. P.S. Sig looks good dude. Ace McWicked^Revolt 21:44, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Thanks about the sig. But keep in mind the genetic bottleneck. Founder's effect is in mainspace, and this goes into more detail about the founder's effect. --^Input The Resistor^Output 21:45, 3 March 2009 (EST)

I'd go check it out and form an opinion, kittenpuppy, but where's the link? You expect me to copy/paste the header into a generic RW url? ħuman 22:54, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Perhaps it might be better to beef up the founder's effect article - after all the effect can apply to any group of life forms, not just teh puddytats. Also, yeah good sig. Totnesmartin 05:50, 4 March 2009 (EST)

I think it could be moved back to mainspace. It needs a bit of work to be more RationalWikiesque, but it's already linked from at least a couple of mainspace articles & doesn't really have a reason to be in essay space. Wẽãšẽĩõĩď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 07:07, 4 March 2009 (EST)

A bit more RWiness (there's some but a bit more would be good), a bit less just-writing-about-cats-because-I-like-them and then back to mainspace. I'd argue against cover story status because it's only tangentially on-mission. There's nothing to refute or rip the shit out of. Nothing, really, to put in the shop window. Totnesmartin 12:51, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Yes, nothing is made fun of except homophobia, Bush, conservatives, death by lions; and nothing evolutionary is mentioned aside from the cheetah skull found in China, the Founder's effect, sand cat relationships to domestic cats. . . Yes, it need more work. Yes, it shouldn't be in mainspace yet. No, it could eventually be in mainspace, and maybe even rated as a good article. --^Input The Resistor^Output 16:34, 4 March 2009 (EST)

(unindent) And here's something on rusty-spotted cat genetics! --^Input The Resistor^Output 16:39, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Can I give you a hint? Just work on the article; if it's good, people will notice and award acolades appropriately. Stop trying to pimp your article; that's what's turning people off. Z3ro^talk 16:43, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Hmmm, funny, still no linkie for the lazy... ħuman 01:07, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Essay:Felidae Happy? --^Input The Resistor^Output 16:30, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Thanks, that makes it so much easier! ħuman 16:51, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Colbert call to arms

I don't know how many people here are Stephen Colbert fans, but I think he's hilarious, and has called on his fans to help name a space module after him. You can go to NASA's website to select a name, and write in your own. Currently Xenu is winning the write in vote, and I'd rather see Stephen Colbert get his name on it than an evil galactic overlord. Who's with me! Z3ro^talk 23:55, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Did you read my mind? Are your reading my mind?! I already did the same thing around 10:00 this morning! ĵ₳¥ášÇ♠ʘ A sig not even he can predict! 23:59, 3 March 2009 (EST)

Yes. Yes I am. Mwahahaha. Z3ro^talk 09:32, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Good idea, especially the part about beating Xenu. However, even before I saw what the current result were, I knew that Serenity would be in the lead and I doubt that anything has a chance of beating it. --Edgerunner⁷⁶ 10:18, 4 March 2009 (EST)

I don't know, Colbert's popularity has gotten quite a few things named after him. We'll see. Z3ro^talk 10:30, 4 March 2009 (EST)

I couldn't resist, voted on the commercial directly after he announced it on the show. As an update, Colbert beat Xenu! If he's ahead of Serenity (which they don't tell you) then Colbert is going to space! (again) [1] User:Ttony21/sig2 16:48, 4 March 2009 (EST)

I say name it 'Limbaugh' and send him into space.--Nate River 23:46, 4 March 2009 (EST)

It was cool how he got ahead of Xenu in 24 hours. I wonder why NASA isn't giving us the real vote totals for their candidates and the write-ins? Liberal deceit? ħuman 17:29, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Apparently so. I hadn't thought to glance at the contest rules yet, but it's a little depressing. "NASA will take into consideration the results of the voting. However, the results are not binding on NASA and NASA reserves the right to ultimately select a name in accordance with the best interests of the agency, its needs, and other considerations. Such name may not necessarily be one which is on the list of voted-on candidate names. NASA’s decision shall be deemed final. NASA reserves the right to modify these Contest Rules at any time." User:Ttony21/sig2 17:52, 5 March 2009 (EST)

That's pretty standard in naming contests.... It basically says "If you morons pick something really stupid, we will ignore you and do whatever we want." It kinda sucks, but it's needed.. You wouldn't want NASA launching the Skullfucker 1 would you? SirChuckB^{A product of Affirmative Action} 17:59, 5 March 2009 (EST)

As if that wouldn't be totally awesome. I'd still be ticked if Colbert won and NASA decides not to go with it. Serenity is kinda lame anyway. User:Ttony21/sig2 18:03, 5 March 2009 (EST)

If it weren't for small print like that, I'd be living a few km from the Colbert bridge --  Nx/talk  18:04, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Faux News does science

I came across this article on Fox News regarding navel lint. The first part of me went "what the fuck" these results are more than 3 or 4 years old to begin with, but what caught my attention was the line:

“”We weren't willing to pay $31.50 for the full journal text, but the Telegraph was, and it came up with further nuggets...

These people can't be arsed spend less than $32 to do their own fact checking, instead relying on second hand information and they call themselves a new service. - User $\scriptstyle h/2\hbar$ 05:22, 4 March 2009 (EST)

The "article" looks more like a blog entry. Did Hannity! write it? Either way, this guy has to be on the short list for an Ig Nobel. Corry^{Wow. We're just blowing through nap time, aren't we?} 07:47, 4 March 2009 (EST)

As π said, this is from a really old story - he was awarded an Ig Nobel prize in 2002 [2]. alt 17:21, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Correction: that Ig Nobel was actually awarded to someone else for his research into navel lint. Must learn to read... alt 17:24, 4 March 2009 (EST)

Godless Art

Those of you who enjoy a good art show and live near Harrisonburg, Virginia might enjoy going along to this art show by a very RationalWiki-style artist. There's an eerie feeling that he might even be one of us with his lolcats, Ashleys and Bibbles. If not, we should invite him to come play with us. DogP 11:37, 4 March 2009 (EST)

He's going to burn in hELL for this one. --  Nx/talk   15:50, 4 March 2009 (EST)

This looks a lot like the artistic style of Cyanide and Happiness ĵ₳¥ášÇ♠ʘ A sig not even he can predict! 10:25, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Fox News brings you the important issues

Obama's going gray!

His hair's always been grey - it's just that he's been using dye during the election campaign, another example of liberal deceit. Klapaucius^{Esteemed Constructor} 10:13, 5 March 2009 (EST)

"Always"? Like since he was a little Muslim baby even? ;) ħuman 16:45, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Presumably so, but it's difficult to be certain, as he would have been wearing a turban then. At all times. Klapaucius^{Esteemed Constructor} 17:27, 5 March 2009 (EST)

It is a noted phenomenon that with in a year of becoming the leader of a nation your hair goes grey. True fact, Dr Karl from the above belly button lint story looked into it I'll see if I can dig a cite up for you. - User $\scriptstyle h/2\hbar$ 22:44, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Unlike Ronald Reagan, whose hair was glossy and black well into his eighties, until he left office, at which point it turned white overnight? --Gulik 14:21, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Conservapedia vs. RationalWiki

Relocated from Conservapedia Talk:What is going on at CP?

We are getting less traffic than CP. I find this alarming. See, if people were coming to them from us, they would also register here. . . but they aren't. The point: I know we don't care about page views, but we do try to refute CP- something which we obviously aren't doing well. --^Input The Resistor^Output 19:32, 5 March 2009 (EST)

The simple answer is that the stats are almost certainly biased; it has been pointed out in several places that only hits from people with IE running the Alexa toolbar count on Alexa, and as only about a third of our traffic uses IE the figures are appropriately biased. The only way we can know the real figures is by badgering Trent to tell us the logs, and as CP will have similar issues (though not as severe), comparisons will still be dubious. Word evil Hoover! 13:56, 6 March 2009 (EST)

I am not really fussed we are getting less traffic, however I think we need to make a serious attempt to move beyond Conservapedia if we do want more traffic. If we remain focussed on Conservapedia we will always get strictly less traffic then they do. - User $\scriptstyle h/2\hbar$ 19:40, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Maybe we could start collecting instances where RationalWiki has been recognized by outside sources (blogs, news sites, etc.). Those could then be used to provide notability to the RationalWiki article on Wikipedia, and people researching Conservapedia might actually come by it (I'm sure this is already being worked on/tried in the past but now that the issue is brought up it seems important to try and get RationalWiki noticed). We could also reach out to some influential Conservapedia dissenters (e.g., Cenk Uyger) about the RationalWiki cause. User:Ttony21/sig2 19:40, 5 March 2009 (EST)

How about we beg popular bloggers to link to us and hang around forums going "I have found this interesting article on this wiki, any thoughts"? We could call Operation Clusterfuck. We will sore up the search results for a popular search engine starting with G. - User $\scriptstyle h/2\hbar$ 19:45, 5 March 2009 (EST)

We are number one for 'rusty-spotted cat evolution' --<choose>

<option>^Input The Resistor^Output</option> <option>Coyote^{Over 450 pages watched NOT including talk pages}</option> <option>The Trickster</option> <option>Acionyx</option> 20:41, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Sounds more like Operation Swallow Your Pride, but I suppose all's fair in Google rankings and war (and this is a war). Maybe I'll try writing a letter (E-mail) to Cenk to see if he'd do a short segment on the site. User:Ttony21/sig2 19:54, 5 March 2009 (EST)

If you really want to go down the search engine optimisation path, this guy will tell you what you need to know for $0.50 a minute. Can't get cheaper advise than that and he has been very successful as well. - User $\scriptstyle h/2\hbar$ 19:57, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Is this real? Corry^{Wow. We're just blowing through nap time, aren't we?} 20:16, 5 March 2009 (EST)

If you want to hire him you can find out. (Note RW supports flv). - User $\scriptstyle h/2\hbar$ 20:21, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Listen to the birthday boy, expand. We focus way too much on CP. While they can forever be our mortal enemies, they are too small. We monitor a small, unknown group. CP itself has expanded into various aspects of modern culture. They even have a section for anime (how non-American is that)! We could write articles about weird stuff around the world, like weird laws. We also should make ourselves more respectable, maybe move away from the vandalism so much. A lot of people go to CP to spot wandalizism. --Nate River 19:59, 5 March 2009 (EST)

<blink>♥</blink> T t o n y <blink>♥</blink> you're wandering awfully close to the dark side...-- Antifly ^{Now with 50% less retirement!} 20:04, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Mace Windu, the most successful Jedi ever (aside from Yoda) was dangerously close to the dark side. Still one of the elite. We must do a Mace and walk close to the dark side. --<choose>

<option>^Input The Resistor^Output</option> <option>Coyote^{Over 450 pages watched NOT including talk pages}</option> <option>The Trickster</option> <option>Acionyx</option> 20:40, 5 March 2009 (EST)

We could make this more a place to hang in a post-CP era--Nate River 20:06, 5 March 2009 (EST)

The dark side of search engine manipulation is strong in this one. I also agree expanding the site would be great, but we could use more editors, hence we need to focus equally on more traffic. All while Rome (Conservapedia) burns itself to the ground (TK, the new Nero). User:Ttony21/sig2 20:20, 5 March 2009 (EST)

I'm just saying, CP has multiple points of interest. It has split from it's historical/math origins to incorporate so much. Maybe if we ran a few Non-CP articles, such as jokes about weird marriages in India and whatnot, we could get a few more people. A slow, controlled expansion could help get those people.--Nate River 20:30, 5 March 2009 (EST)

That's what I suggested once. Shot down. I still think its a good idea and I've been already 'advertising' RationalWiki on the left-unamed forums, as well as Wikipedia, where I am joined by RA. THIS IS WAR! WE WILL DESTROY CP! or at least refute it --<choose>

<option>^Input The Resistor^Output</option> <option>Coyote^{Over 450 pages watched NOT including talk pages}</option> <option>The Trickster</option> <option>Acionyx</option> 20:37, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Run a few non-CP articles? What do you mean by that? Oh, and shut up CUR. ħuman 20:45, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Maybe do some stuff on wackiness around the world. There are all kinds of fun, stupid laws around the world. We could write stuff on that kind of crap and get all kinds of internet goers who look for weird stuff to come here.--Nate River 20:54, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Nate, we do - first, there's the mainspace. Then the other 3 WIGOs. And the AotW is moving away from CP steadily. ħuman 21:26, 5 March 2009 (EST)

(unindent) Go crazy laws! And you shut up as well, human! Or at least promise not to tell me to shut up again. --<choose> <option>^Input The Resistor^Output</option> <option>Coyote^{Over 450 pages watched NOT including talk pages}</option> <option>The Trickster</option> <option>Acionyx</option> 20:55, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Like [3]this. You would love this Human--Nate River 20:59, 5 March 2009 (EST)

CUR, I only tell you to shut up when you type something inane. I'll come up with a better phrase ;) ħuman 21:26, 5 March 2009 (EST)

And thanks, Nate, that is cool. ħuman 21:29, 5 March 2009 (EST)

I'm not necessarily advocating an expansion of scope but I will say this: It is my impression that WP is a bit hobbled by wiki-politics and what has been called the tyranny of false balance with respect to articles about active cults, pseudo science and woo. We aren't limited like that. This falls within our mission. We could be the snopes of junk science and wavy handed spiritualism. ^Me!Sheesh!_Mine! 21:52, 5 March 2009 (EST)

I'm almost scared to ask what qualifies as "wavy-handed". Maybe reiki :p User:Ttony21/sig2 22:09, 5 March 2009 (EST)

(interleaved comment)I used the modifier "wavy-handed" as a courtesy to those readers who might hold some form of spiritualism dear. The standard is to consider any supernatural beliefs you hold to be well-grounded and the ones you don't to be "wavy handed." 9.9/10- try to keep an open mind 216.54.39.107 09:40, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Sheesh is exactly right. Especially as regards alternative medicine, WP sacrifices a great deal in dealing with woo. I just read through wp:Deepak Chopra today and was horrified. The man's a menace and a quack, who has produced an astounding quantity of unscientific bullshit, ranging from quantum healing to levitation, but aside from a loosely connected half-paragraph re. criticism, buried under Reception, you'd never know. 22:29, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Well feel free to add to Deepak Chopra as long as it is true and verifiable you can write about how much of a quack he is and why he is wrong. While you are at it if you could wrestle Andrea Dworkin‎ away from the moonbat apologist that has taken the article over that would be grouse. - User $\scriptstyle h/2\hbar$ 22:38, 5 March 2009 (EST)

So WP is victim of Political Correctness or supporters embellishing their articles. Be careful now, we are getting close to agreeing with CP here--Nate River 22:46, 5 March 2009 (EST)

We do to a certain extent. Whilst WP is a good guide it is a) an encyclopaedia b) neutral to the nth degree. We should cover our mission article in a method different from an encyclopaedic statement of facts. We also should not try to appease people who don't have their brain fully in gear. We should always go straight to the best sources on the latest science and bring that to people with clear explanation for the uninformed. CP gets all it material from what ever exists in Andy's head. - User $\scriptstyle h/2\hbar$ 22:54, 5 March 2009 (EST)

It was a joke. Its unsettling for me to agree with CP.--Nate River 23:04, 5 March 2009 (EST)

It's not necessarily political correctness, but it does sometimes suffer, as Sheesh puts it, from false-balance, because the crap that anyone comes up with is sometimes (not very often) seen as equal to expert opinion. The Chopra article appears to be an extreme case, and I'm happy most of the time with WP's articles. Where Andy objects to WP articles for failing to emphasise his particular brand of criticisms, so too we object to its failure to emphasise ours (we being skeptics? or me and anyone who agrees?). The key difference, of course, is that we have good cause for skepticism: centuries of scientific data collection. 23:57, 5 March 2009 (EST)

We fundamentally differ in that we are annoyed when it is giving unfair weight to non-mainstream scientific opinion whereas Andy wants it to give unfair weight to non-mainstream scientific opinion. - User $\scriptstyle h/2\hbar$ 00:02, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Way to put it succinctly. 00:46, 6 March 2009 (EST)

So from the Play up Pompey incident I think it's pretty clear that CP's stats have been systematically inflated. And the top 500 is rife with examples of this. 77,000 hits for an article on posh spice? Seriously? I don't think anyone here would pull that. Andy has already deleted and restored some such articles to reset their pageviews. Does that decrease the total number of hits on the statistics page? If so, I say we start hitting articles with suspicious pageviews to get their counts even higher. Andy can either delete and restore them, losing all of the fake traffic, or be content with Posh Spice being the most popular article on his encyclopedia. Neveruse513 00:35, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Let's put it this way, inflation of cp:Homosexual_obsession in the last 12 hours or so has constituted 1/800 of all hits in CP history (>100 thousand of 80 million). One can only guess how many of CP's hits are from bots by one or another person or group (I suspect much of it is outside RW). 00:46, 6 March 2009 (EST)

We have done what Neveruse513 suggested with goat and a massive pile of homosexuality articles before, the only problem is that they didn't care about the homosexuality ones and Ken seems blissfully unaware that someone is bumping one of his pets (Hint: why does one page have more view the main page that doesn't make any sense?). It does have to be something stupid to get them to delete it. My all time favourite was the US history mid term which Ken deleted despite the fact that no one was bumping it (in just over a week 500,000 people came to gawk at Andy's chauvinism). - User $\scriptstyle h/2\hbar$ 00:55, 6 March 2009 (EST)

I think there are plenty of examples of pumped up articles that Andy would not stand to have be the most popular. Let's see....Fire drill (165,211 views), Deletedpage (146,719 views), Goat (141,477 views)...that's almost a half million hits right there. It's so obvious though...I'd guess a third of CP's traffic is fraudulent. It's could get tricky. A quarter million hits for the Hubble telescope even though it's no where to be found on Google and no one in their right mind would go to CP to get it. Now would Andy rather have an absurd amount of hits for Hubble or lose a quarter million truth points? Let's find out. Neveruse513 09:21, 6 March 2009 (EST)

WorldNetDaily could be a good start. Plenty of looniness there. --Irrational Atheist 02:08, 6 March 2009 (EST)

WorldNetDaily should have a place of pride on clogo. The other three WIGOs really need to develop the critical mass CP has. - User $\scriptstyle h/2\hbar$ 02:17, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Conservapedia is a Featured Article Candidate at Wikipedia. That may account for any recent rise in traffic, I don't know. I haven't seen the numbers. If the article does reach FA status, you can expect a huge spike in traffic that RW would not benefit hugely from. --Bluefish, too lazy to sign in 67.175.227.168 06:06, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Well feel free to email the new people that show up and are banned. - User $\scriptstyle h/2\hbar$ 06:10, 6 March 2009 (EST)

On "Political Correctness" and WP

So WP is victim of Political Correctness or supporters embellishing their articles . . . just like Andy says.

No.

1. Political correctness is a nonsensical commonplace used almost solely by the right to mean some menace to free speech. Note the right's propagation of NewSpeak for the irony here. The term was originally coined to mean not using racist, sexist and bigoted language in the workplace, but it was quickly co-opted by the wing nuts and malcontents as an excuse to call people names.
2. The bias of WP comes in two main varieties:
   • the largely a local phenomena caused by informal (and sometime clandestine and formal) tribes of like minded editors enforcing their distinctly biased point of view over a small collection of articles
   • The sometimes compensatory and sometimes complementary global bias towards WP's guidelines for verifiability (some "trusted" source said it) and neutrality (make no "value judgments"). These guidelines are highly problematic but represent a good compromise if your goal is indirect and "blind" quality control.
3. CP thinks WP is ruled by a global form of the first type of bias. CP needs to look in the mirror. It's bias is like a single sociopathic tribe.
4. WP's biases are a symptom of the human drive towards politics (with a small "p", as they say) constrained by the rational structures that are meant to make open collaborative encyclopedia construction possible.
5. CP's bias is largely fascist, but the participation of trolls, parodists and vandals does muddy the water quite a bit.

09:34, 6 March 2009 (EST)

You're quite right about point one. In American Politics, "I refuse to be PC" translates into "I still wanna spot my racist, sexistm homophobic hate speech, but I demand to be treated like a hero for doing it." SirChuckB^{A product of Affirmative Action} 11:10, 6 March 2009 (EST)

What makes you think it is a phenomenon restricted to the US? - User $\scriptstyle h/2\hbar$ 18:00, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Cause we Americans usually hear it from god-fearing 'murcans. Besides we are the center of everything! ^Me!Sheesh!_Mine! 18:16, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Phew!

Just snuck it in under the limit! Thank God, Andy, your 6000 year old Earth is safe. The horses are on your side for this one! (Please ignore the mention of the domestication of dogs, however.) DickTurpis 23:33, 5 March 2009 (EST)

Death to the Great Satan Comcast!

Gah! Comcast *suddenly* decided to start throttling my connection speed. I use Bittorrent, and now my formerly respectable upload rate of 250 Kb/s has been reduced to... 20 Kb/s. Which kind of hurts, because I use a private tracker that keeps tabs on your upload/download ratio. Ooh, I hate you Comcast! Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 03:55, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Er, "pwned." But, don't you have a contract with them to, you know, provide the service you pay for? --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 04:42, 6 March 2009 (EST)

I use Bittorrent, and now my formerly respectable upload rate of 250 Kb/s has been reduced to... 20 Kb/s.

Post hoc is not necessarily procter hoc but... Silver Sloth 04:45, 6 March 2009 (EST)

"...don't you have a contract with them ...?" In principle, yes. Unfortunately, there's a little line in the contract about "not interfering with other subscribers' connections" (or something like that)—and using too much bandwidth can hamper neighboring customers' connections (why does it never occur to them that someone would actually want to use the 100 Mb/s that they're paying for?). Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 04:56, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Oh, Comcast. So, my hubby is a huge anime and j-drama fan, and we manage to download, oh, 100's of gig a month on his addiction. Comcast called us one day, after he moved in, and said this (almost word for word) "may I speak to M. Godot" "Mrs. Godot, don't you think you are using too much bandwidth?" (please remember, I am a nerd, not a geek. I don't really know what is normal use, and i sure don't know all the mb,Kb, bites v. byts, vs whatever) me:"I don't know, am I?" "Yes, you are using too much bandwidth. Please lower it". me:"Ok, my husband has a monitor that he can set. How much do we lower it to". Comcast: "Please lower your usage". me: Yes, but by how much. Comcast:please lower your usage. Hubby and I choose to lower our usage by 100g a month. Month 2, I get same call. same line "don't you think you are using too much" Me (getting snarky):Well, if i thought I were, I woudln't be, would I. You tell us there is a speed limit, but won't tell us what that limit *is*. " Comcast: Lower your usage please". We dumped them. Went to Qwest. It's by far slower (300 somethings vs 800-1000 of the same thing on comcast kb/s maybe?). I just love how they were not obligated to tell you what you were allowed to download. And all teh little game playing. And that they would not talk to Vic, who actually knows something about the world of downloading, but insisted on talking to me. It was very surreal --En attendant Godot_{"«I think like a genius, I write like a distinguished author, and I speak like a child. --V.Nabokov»} 11:06, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Yeah, Comcast blows.... Got rid of them and moved to Qwest... Much happier now. SirChuckB^{A product of Affirmative Action} 11:18, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Lesbians not wanted?

Don't know where to put this Stumbled On snippet:

“”(Former) Xbox Live gamer Teresa found herself on the receiving end of a ban from the service for a surprising reason. She identified herself as a lesbian in her Live profile. That resulted in a ban from the service after her Xbox Live peers complained about her profile, according to a letter to the Consumerist.

—From here

Can't find the letter referred to. (Teresa's not me!) _and marmite 04:46, 6 March 2009 (EST)

I'm not 100% convinced that "TheStraightGamer" would have the same treatment as "straight" has multiple meanings, but I see their point to a small degree; as a gaming thing expressing your sexual preferences should really be very low priority. Unless you have such an indentity crisis that that is how you identify yourself above everything else, I know a few people like that and it's not pretty. ArmondikoV^{d hominem} 10:27, 6 March 2009 (EST)

On the basis of "don't trouble trouble 'til trouble troubles you", I don't really see why Teresa had to announce her sexual preferences myself (Lesbian that I am!) but I don't know the circumstances, of course. _and marmite 10:50, 6 March 2009 (EST)

What the heck is wrong with saying you are gay on your profile? I say I'm into Nabakov on profiles here and there - it's just a comment. And given how many people hit on women on sites like this, saying you are gay has its advantages (even if you are straight). Why would Xbox people care?--En attendant Godot_{"«I think like a genius, I write like a distinguished author, and I speak like a child. --V.Nabokov»} 10:56, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Perhaps she was better at the game(s) & it was used as an excuse? _and marmite 10:59, 6 March 2009 (EST)

HAHAHAHA! "Dear XBox Live, Boo Hoo. I got beat by a girl. Even worse, she doesn't like guys. I am offended (at my own worthlessness). Banhammer her so I can get back on the leaderboard for Call of Duty 5. Thank you, Timmy. (Age 37)" LOLOLOLOLOL! The Foxhole Atheist 11:03, 6 March 2009 (EST)

(EC) Unfortunately, we live, even on Xbox Live (whatever that is), in the real world & have to allow for the inane biases & prejudices of others. If she'd wanted to play games, she should probably have kept quiet; if she wanted to strike a blow for her sexual preferences, then she's done that. I can now go into my local (pub) without getting sniggers from the macho men around the bar because they've become used to us, in fact they actively back us up against newcomers who try to take the piss (one guy was "taken out back" - he's not been since). Lesson: get accepted as a person, then "out" yourself. _and marmite 11:07, 6 March 2009 (EST)

In Microsoft's defense, they are very clear about acceptable information in their terms and conditions (because everybody always reads those) Microsoft basically says that you should not have anything in your profile regarding your sexuality or anybody else's, and that your profile is not the place for poltical messages etc etc etc.... However, they rely on gamer complaints to take action. Most straight people who feel the need to announce their sexuality (why they would I don't know) are also in violation of the policy, but are less likely to get gamer complaints. SirChuckB^{A product of Affirmative Action} 11:22, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Not being a member of a minority other than "woman", I've often wondered if it's better to be black, where your skin is out there for face-to-face hatred, or gay, where you might have teh "tom hanks" moment of being in a room of peers as it gets more and more homophobic - knowing that outing yourself could end a career. Toast, by the way, are you following the Prop 8 case? NAACP came out formally against prop 8. a bit too late, one might suppose, but it's actually a huge move for them on GLBT issues. --En attendant Godot_{"«I think like a genius, I write like a distinguished author, and I speak like a child. --V.Nabokov»} 11:26, 6 March 2009 (EST)

When did women become a minority? ħuman 21:38, 6 March 2009 (EST)

I was the mod that banned her. She refused to video-tape herself stripping and fingering her girlfriend so I gave her the boot.DSFARGEG 13:06, 6 March 2009 (EST)

How very amusing DSFARGEG. _and marmite 14:52, 6 March 2009 (EST)

I'm straight. Want to play a game? ^Me!Sheesh!_Mine! 16:47, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Need help and advice

Next year I am applying to the Interservice (service as in military, not clergy) Physician's Assistant Program (IPAP) through US Army MEDDAC. One of the requirements to place my application is an SAT standard 3 line test with a score of 1500 or higher with no individual section lower than 450.

In my home state of Michigan, I was required to take the ACT, not the SAT. I scored a 28 on that. I have looked into the SAT scoring and I THINK (read: would LIKE) that I could score over 2100 which would make my packet that much more competitive.

Does anyone have any insight into correlation between ACT and SAT test scores? Insight into the test itself? Tips? Am I fortunate enough to have any Army Physicians here on this site? I have a study guide and a free web service for test prep through the DANTES web site, but I would like to know where my focus should be.

Thanks in advance, The Foxhole Atheist 08:58, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Hi! I think a 28 is vaguely around a 1300 on the old SAT, which would make your estimation sound accurate for the new SAT. The SAT really isn't that hard, general good test-taking tips apply (Don't let yourself get too nervous, think carefully and avoid pitfalls). Either way, you seem to be way above the requirements! dream^ing _{Hail Eris!} 10:40, 6 March 2009 (EST)

It's official

God hates gothic scum like he hates fags... DSFARGEG 13:18, 6 March 2009 (EST)

HOLY FLIPPIN' HELL. How despicable can you get? Read the end of paragraph 4, if you can get that far. I smell a new article of the weak here. The Foxhole Atheist 13:25, 6 March 2009 (EST)

OK... Poe. It has to be... Right? The retard menace? Railing against kids with spina bifida, multiple sclerosis and cerebral palsy? This HAS to be fake. Please tell me it's fake... Whew! The Foxhole Atheist 13:38, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Poe alert - if you go as far as the merchandising you can get a "Goths Are Worthless Cunts" tote bag. I can't see any genuine Fundy using the 'C' word. Silver Sloth 14:37, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Seen this before - I'm sure we decided it was parody. Google www.godhates there's a load, about 60/40 parody/real at my guess. _and marmite 14:58, 6 March 2009 (EST)

I'm sorry, but i find sites like this hysterical. "WHILE ALL SUB-CULTURES ARE INHERENTLY BAD, GOTH IS THE WORST OF THESE SUB-CULTURES. BY DEFINITION THEY ARE “SUB” (ie. LOWER OR INFERIOR) TO NORMAL HARD-WORKING CULTURES.". I mean "sub" means less than. lol, and ALL subcultures are bad. heheheh. Ah, ignorance, thy name is rednecked-fundie. --En attendant Godot_{"«I think like a genius, I write like a distinguished author, and I speak like a child. --V.Nabokov»} 15:15, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Best part is this. It proves beyond doubt that this guy is a poe. Warning, torture devices on page. The Emperor_{Kneel before Zod!} 21:12, 6 March 2009 (EST)

crissake, people. There's a link right near the top where they out themselves. No speculation required. User:Mei 21:15, 6 March 2009 (EST)

OH NOES! In the section "God hates Retards, he goes after some of my favorite people-

James Earl Jones – Actor. Voice of ‘Darth Vader’ in ‘Star Wars’ movies. (Retardation – stutter)

Isaac Asimov – Satanic Science fiction writer with links to Scientology (Retardation – autism)

Vladimir Ilyich Lenin – Evil Russian Dictator and communist (Retardation – epilepsy)

Leonardo da Vinci – Satanic artist and scientist, invented the bicycle, author of Satanic book ‘the Da Vinci Code’ (Retardation – dyslexia)

NO! If he accuses Ian Mcdiarmid of mental deficincies, all that is left will be Satan!The Emperor_{Kneel before Zod!} 21:41, 6 March 2009 (EST)

It's not Poe if it's obvious parody. In the "Goths enter here" section it opens "Dear Loser". ħuman 21:44, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Heh, it's so hard to tell when the real deal open their videos by addressing the "doomed sodomites" --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 00:51, 7 March 2009 (EST)

Itty bitty mini rants

Hotels are the single most expensive part of any trip. Ok, back to your regularly scheduled show.--En attendant Godot_{"«I think like a genius, I write like a distinguished author, and I speak like a child. --V.Nabokov»} 15:17, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Some people here take themselves way too seriously. Neveruse513 15:23, 6 March 2009 (EST)

See, if you'd got yourself organised WfG, you'd have joined a website with members all round the world & persuaded them to put you up when you visited their countries/states. Wonder what sort of site would do? _and marmite 15:29, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Ohhh, maybe i can run back to conservapedia, and get someone there to host. (j/k). :-) I actually did do quite a bit of that kind of schmoozing, to acquire "tour guides" in Straussberg. But I always feel bad imposing on people for the night. i snore loudly. :D hehe. --En attendant Godot_{"«I think like a genius, I write like a distinguished author, and I speak like a child. --V.Nabokov»} 15:50, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Mind if I ask where you're going? Neveruse513 15:53, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Edinburgh and Dublin. The Dublin run isn't so bad, as we can find cheep hotel for a night. But Edinburgh is annoying me right now. :D and that's where i *really* want to go, cause 1/2 of me is Scottish in some winding way, and you know "the pipes, the pipes are calling me...."--En attendant Godot_{"«I think like a genius, I write like a distinguished author, and I speak like a child. --V.Nabokov»} 16:15, 6 March 2009 (EST)

The pipes begin to grate if you hear them every time you go into the city center. Word evil Hoover! 16:33, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Phantom lives in teh Lothian, I believe. When are you there? _and marmite 16:35, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Phantom - my dad started teh pipes when he turned 60. You know what's more grating than hearing pipes in the city center every day? Hearing poorly played pipes as someone learns to play, every weekend (or for his poor wife, every day). He's not bad now, 13 years later. We'll be there in April, either 2 days between the 20th and 24. (other two days in Dublin.) What surprised me, when hubby said "let's go" is how cheaply you can find flights in and around Europe if you just look. for 22 euro a piece we have tickets for this 4 day jaunt, and a 1 day super speed train into Stassburg. Here in Denver, 35 bucks might get you as far as, oh, Pueblo (the industrial coal and steel capitol of Colorado)...maybe. :D --En attendant Godot_{"«I think like a genius, I write like a distinguished author, and I speak like a child. --V.Nabokov»} 16:43, 6 March 2009 (EST)

My heart goes out to your poor mother. Word evil Hoover! 16:46, 6 March 2009 (EST)

See here _and marmite 17:15, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Thanks!

Get there before you have to pay to pee on the plane. Mind you, peeing on the plane is free if you stand under the airbridge and pee on the wheel. DogP 19:04, 6 March 2009 (EST)

(undent) The thing that really annoys me is that a flight from the UK to New York (3456 miles) costs me about the same as a subsequent flight inside the US (715 miles). And I have to disagree with the original rant, as the last flight I took cost 5 or 6 times the cost of staying in the (very decent) hotel for a week.. alt 19:28, 6 March 2009 (EST)

The death penalty!

Content moved to Debate:Death penalty