RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive359

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A good literature or author on populism

I'm looking for a good poli-sci literature or author with an expertise on populism, especially dealing with the contemporary ones like Trump and Bolsonaro. I prefer it to have an international coverage but it's still cool even if it's mainly about US politics. Thanks! Dogeatsdog (talk) 01:14, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Nothing by any neoliberal. — Oxyaena ^Harass 04:31, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

For the second time in less than a month on this page I'm going to recommend "It Couldn't Happen Here" by Sinclair Lewis. And then give "Pereira Maintains" by Antonio Tabbucchi a read Cardinal Chang (talk) 09:06, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks but novels like these are only depressing :( Dogeatsdog (talk) 10:14, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

And populism isn't? Cardinal Chang (talk) 18:00, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm looking for Poli sci stuff (as I wrote at the beginning). Dogeatsdog (talk) 18:19, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

A morbid, sad yet oddly funny conclusion I came to last night

As you are aware, my idiot dad died last year. It also took several days for me to shed tears (not for the person he was but rather the man he could have been).

Now here comes the morbid yet funny part: last night I was listening to the audio book "Feed" by Mira Grant. When one of the major characters die, I felt more sympathy for the characters in a fucking zombie novel than my idiot dad (may he rot in Hell where he belongs). Hell, when I finished the audio book today I almost cried.

I find it funny that I felt more sympathy for characters in a zombie novel than I did my own dad. Is that weird? I know that it is morbid and probably insane yet I do not give a shit if it is. It is what it is. God I am fucked up --Racia zombio94 (talk) 15:27, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Nightwish captured it well, when a voice in one of their songs said to himself (through a female voice), "Why do I miss someone I never met?" I get the same way sometimes, I never cried for my grandmother or grandfather (opposite sides of the family), nor for Neil Peart, but Peart's death was a much deeper cut. At least for me, I don't try to make it make sense; it just is. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 16:34, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

its probably a lot easier to have sympathy with complete strangers, or even fictional characters over someone who may have hurt you deeply or have had a strongly negative impact on you, your life or family, especially if unresolved. their ill effect making them undeserving of sympathy to you. with strangers in peril or fictional characters you have no baggage, nothing to muddy the sympathy their situation gives for them. that should not worry you to greatly in itself, as in its not indicative of a callous nature, but if it gives you pause, perhaps there are some issues with your father that need addressing or it just brought to mind a memory of your father and noting your feelings run contrary to those who may have had a perhaps more typical relationship with their old man. AMassiveGay (talk) 19:30, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

I cry pretty easy at fiction. I don't even have to like the story being told, anything can set me off, a good hit on music or a really good turn in music. It's more about "man, if this was actually my world, I'd be so down." But the difference between shedding tears at fiction and not shedding tears at reality is very, very personal. If you're shedding tears over a fiction, and it reminds you of your reality, and that makes you go "haha, weird" it is weird, and it will always be weird, and weird isn't synonymous with bad. I had a buddy in high school who crashed his car on his dad's death-day, one of the weirdest guys I've ever met, and I was one of his high school buddies, drunk in the basement of another friend's house trying to calm him down that night. We failed. I was also one of the high school buddies who helped pick up the pieces of bumper and headlight, one of the high school buddies who got the stink eye in the neighborhood.

You don't have to feel guilty. You can feel so much that the last thing left to do is cry a little bit, that's totally fine. But you don't have to feel guilty. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 01:14, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Still feels strange though. Guess I am trying to use zombie fiction as a means of escape from some of my problems. At least audio books drown out voices and the creatures in my head. --Racia zombio94 (talk) 01:51, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't mean that as "feeling weird or strange or guilty" is wrong. I also don't have a recording for you yet. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 01:57, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Oh no I did not take it that way so no worries, I was stating how I felt. As for the recording, no need to rush. :) --Racia zombio94 (talk) 02:15, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Solipsism and Parsimony

So I often hear that Occam's Razor is a common tool used to "shave" (puns I know) away excess assumptions when it comes to explaining things. The few assumptions you have to make the better, usually. But would a failure of that be Solipsism? I mean that's about as simple as you get with assumptions so does that make it correct? Also why do we assume that the simplest explanation is the right one? I mean that's not always the case when you factor in the (confirmed) conspiracies the USA and CIA engaged in (not supporting the nutty ones just the ones we knew about and were disclosed). At what point is it over simplifying?Machina (talk) 23:07, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

I mean, this is a poor use of Occam's Razor and a really strange use of Parsimony. Just because something can be explained doesn't mean the explanation is true, and it doesn't mean something within the explanation is false. it's the addition of steps that don't make any difference that Occam's Razor is meant to "shave off." Like, if you've got 5 steps to save a phone that's been dropped in the toilet, step 1, put your hand in that toilet as fast as you can, step 2 is blow on it like an old Nintendo cartridge, step 3 put it in rice, step 4 cook it in the oven, step 5 is sprinkle a little salt on it and say a prayer, man, the simplest explanation is that you dropped your phone in a toilet and it probably won't work anymore if you didn't get it out of there fast enough. There are steps you can take to mitigate if the damage isn't bad, but what might work and what might not also work aren't proved when you don't "shave" those steps off, your phone either will or won't work after a dunk in the toilet. Trying to apply Occam's Razor to solipsism, it's no wonder you're getting injured. With a phone, maybe you can blow the water off of the connections, maybe bake it off, evaporate it before anything gets shorted without melting the leads, maybe you can put it in rice like a desiccant, maybe you can do a little dance and bring it back to life, so let's start by identifying any of these methods that might not be useful for moisture and circuit boards. With your existence, I dunno man, cut the orange wire? Gol Sarnitt (talk) 01:34, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

I get it because it falls along the lines of "how much can you cut off before it becomes absurd". In the quest for parsimony Solipsism just says to cut it all down, though maybe it doesn't go far enough. I mean asserting that nothing exists because you can't conclude it doesn't seem to make sense but you would have to prove that. Saying it's uncertain is more honest but even that can't be a "truth" claim because you would have to know it's uncertain and that it's not what it appears to be.Machina (talk) 02:35, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

No, you're right, thank you. it can't be a certain, and I definitely don't like the idea of truth being subjective, but that's what nihilism originally gives a big swipe at, and that's not a meritless argument. Truth, if it's subjective, is also your truth as much as anyone's. Kill your heroes, figure out truth yourself, become the answer to your own question. Nietzsche also said "what doesn't kill us makes us stronger" and "a day without dancing is a day lost." It's an ideal, it's a mantra, it's not exactly how the world works. But "God is Dead" is about the idea that you have agency, and you should grab hold of that agency before somebody else does. It's a little misused to say everyone has the same level of agency, but it's a sight better than saying everyone is born allowed this level of agency or that. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 03:11, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

No. There is no obvious link between the two. ShabiDOO 11:07, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Solipsism is simple (the minimal set of assumptions), but it doesn't explain anything. Since it's not an explanation, it is not subject to Occam's Razor. It is, however, subject to Newton's Flaming Laser Sword. 192․168․1․42 (talk) 12:42, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Or more specifically, it doesn't yield equal or higher predictive value than materialism. "All other things being equal" is the first half of the razor. "Carrots are orange" seems to be simpler than "Carrots are orange, unless they're an uncommon cultivar", but it doesn't explain the bag of purple carrots you can find at the grocery store. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 14:29, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

What do you mean it explains nothing? Doesn't it say that everything is a mental projection?Machina (talk) 21:19, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

It has no explanatory power in that it is simply a statement of belief. But if you think it does explain something - what does (or could it) it explain?Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 15:13, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

It explains how everything got to where it is by saying that it’s all a creation of your mind. It seems like the simplest explanation that doesn’t assume too much, even realism is rather complex compared to it. I mean if we can not verify an external reality then why assume there is one? Don’t atheists use the same line of reasoning for God (in that if it cannot be verified why assume it exists)?Machina (talk) 06:30, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Machina, the razor is just a tool. It doesn't prove anything. It helps you decide which theories to take more seriously and PERHAPS discard. That is NOT proof in any form. Finding the least rich theory doesn't give it any more substance just because it was better than another theory. You still have to prove that theory with evidence. And solipsism is entire without evidence. It's just a possibility we cannot discount. And even then your solipsism isn't necessarily simple at all. Behind that seeming simplicity is a mountain of assumptions as though no further complexity is required in order for your mind to somehow be the only thing that could be said to exist. Did your mind just poof out of nowhere into existence or did some extremely complex environment help create that? In which case there is nothing simple about it. Unless your mind really is a magical entity that simply "is" without any need for further explanation then: A universe where you have agents who simply emerge from the rather simple natural laws of the universe (though certainly have a limited understanding of the universe in which a lot of our mental experience are just in our head) is less complex than some universe that first existed and required agents capable of creating a mind that underwent experience but was trapped forever within it unable to know anything outside of it. ShabiDOO 07:06, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

So, here's a head-scratcher, open to anyone. What could be perceived by the brain that couldn't also be created by the brain? Gol Sarnitt (talk) 04:21, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

To explain my own point, mercy, I must be getting old, it's not a legitimate question. The question is damn impossible to answer and not worth answering in the conversation of, I don't know, holding yourself accountable for everything. I get that question and that hurt a lot, I'm supposed to be doing this or that or the other thing, I'm feeling this or that or the other way. But when there's an importance between collective or individual consciousness, like the difference between Buddhism and Solipsism, the point is it's your agency, and believing you are the grand imperator of your existence simply because it's not a 1:1 shared outlook, that's a little overboard. You are the result of your own agency. You can still find yourself on the other side, the "hey, wow, I'm experiencing this shit" side of an existential interaction, your inherent and inescapable perception of the interaction doesn't actually mean you WERE the other side of the interaction. So, can you experience something your brain can't invent? My view is yes, and THEN your brain does the work. if you knock one rule off of Solipsism, you can experience things uniquely and in a different way that, wow, you don't have words for and you're not entirely responsible for, and it's not boiled down to you experiencing something you should have already known or felt, even if sometimes it really looks that way. But it is always you after the interaction, never before. Woo woo doo doo, you're gonna have to get into cognitive primacy, probably.Gol Sarnitt (talk) 02:24, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

“It explains how everything got to where it is by saying that it’s all a creation of your mind." That’s not what an explanation is. An explanation describes why something is a certain way. Why is the sky blue? Saying that it’s a creation of your mind doesn’t answer the question. An explanation would give reasons for why it’s blue rather than, say, red. A better explanation would give reasons for why it’s usually blue but sometimes red or other colors. Solipsism has zero explanatory power since it has nothing to say about why something would be one way rather than another. 192․168․1․42 (talk) 00:53, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Resonantwand.com

I love this website and have been reading it for years, but I finally took the plunge and created an account tonight because the great algorithmic gods spoke and mysteriously targeted me with a Youtube ad for something called 'ResonantWand'. The ad02:07, 14 May 2020 (UTC)88.109.240.187 (talk) was over 5 minutes long and had literally ALL THE WOO. Literally ALL OF IT. Every single woo idea every dreamed up by parasitic woo-mongers, in the whole history of woo. It was like some kind of fucking mental woo bingo. It's 'Natural' (yet also a futuristic device). It Hydrates. It Heals. It uses electromagnetic waves. It repairs DNA. It's basically an infinitely perfect panacea.

It also appears to be a shoddily gold-plated knock-off maglite flashlight with some random shitty engraving and some random plastic shit glued to the front and a USB port at the other end. Plus , according to their horrible website (https://qilifestore.com/collections/resonant-wand-collection), it costs (I shit you not) $3,495 (most basic version) to $11,995 ('Practitioner Ultimate System').

This whole hot mess of an idea is so utterly insane, and the ad I saw crammed so much utterly preposterous idiocy into every single one of its five minutes that it seemed like an obvious parody/ Poe, and I actually watched to the end of the ad expecting it to flash up with some kind of 'gotcha' and a warning about believing unsubstantiated claims on the internet... but no. It appears to be an absolutely genuine scam by some weirdo, bullshit company called 'QIlifestore' (https://qilifestore.com/), who seem to be offering all kinds of absurd and deeply lucrative (for them) crap on their website.They even say that 'The corona virus frequency will be available anytime soon.' to treat the current pandemic on the FAQ's of their site (https://qilifestore.com/apps/help-center#!hc-is-corona-virus-frequency-available). The same FAQ's has an entry saying the following: "Is PEMF scientifically proven? Yes, there are thousands of scientific studies that prove pulsed electromagnetic field therapy has many benefits to humans.You can read about them click here" (https://qilifestore.com/apps/help-center#!hc-is-pemf-scientifically-proven).

Clicking on 'click here' literally just links to... THEIR FUCKING HOME PAGE! (https://qilifestore.com/).

The frontman for this insanity seems to be a guy called 'David Wong'. No idea whether he's the real mastermind or not, but either way, he's maybe a snake-oiler to keep an eye on?

Anyway, either they're a very, very elaborate (and expensive) prank, or they're a deeply cynical and frankly disgusting attempt to extort money from credulous idiots, and either way, they're probably the kind of thing RationalWiki covers, and they seem to have more money behind them than the typical examples of this kind of shit- i.e. they seem particularly funny, but also potentially particularly dangerous to the public if their crazy shit happened to gain traction. I'd love to see your take on this madness- is it some kind of joke that's gotten out of hand, or do people actually pay thousands of dollars for vajazzled maglites because they expect them to give them super healing powers? Seriously, WTAF?

Little tip- you put your signature after the message. If you can make a good article then go for it. Welcome to the club. --Racia zombio94 (talk) 02:33, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

website is as advertised, nutso bonkers and extravagantly priced. I don't know how to format the things I'm excited about either, I say we keep em. Four tildes '`" signs Gol Sarnitt (talk) 02:37, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Might be perfect in the Webshite category and or the Alternative medicine category --Racia zombio94 (talk) 02:40, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Suspect, though. There is no sidebar ad revenue, the prices are insane, and every review so far is pretty clean. I say we keep em, nut this doesn't hold to the general webshite aesthetic. I'm not saying it isn't, but we've had, what 20 minutes to look at it? Gol Sarnitt (talk)

The first result for "David Wong" I found (using Bing, rather than Google) was for Jason Pargin, who uses David Wong as a pseudonym for his novels. He's also the editor for Cracked. Make of that what you will. Kencolt (talk) 03:10, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

What is the deal? A BoN didn't register. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 04:09, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

pulsed electromagnetic field therapy is actually a thing. they didn't invent it, and seem to be blinged out versions of the sort of things already available. probably on a similar level of effective medical treatment as acupuncture - might be helpful, probably not much. goop exists so there is a market for blinged out bullshit. this therapy is also fda approved for 'wellness'? but they cant make any claims of curing stuff. this particular website specifically says in its faqs: 'This system is a meditation enhancement device and is not intended to heal, cure, mitigate or prevent any disease. It is has not been evaluated by the FDA.' as for the corona virus claim, it says 'will be available soon.' that's not a shocking claim of a miracle cure, that's saying no it cannot right now. suggesting it might soon might be optimistic (a lie), but they not telling you it can do something it cannot. all the qi stuff and energies might be the niche for this kind of thing, or it might be typical, I dunno. don't usually pay to close attention to this stuff. it looks like expensive woo sure, but they not selling a miracle cure but vague wellness, and it doesn't ask you to drink bleach. PEFT might warrant look as being missional, if we haven't already got something. this website - not so much. I am thinking david wong a super common name too. AMassiveGay (talk) 21:33, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

[Magnetc field therapy] we do have something. AMassiveGay (talk) 22:19, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm making a page right now, should it be titled as Qi Life or Resonantwand.com?RATIONAL MUNDANE++ (talk) 08:33, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

it does not need one. AMassiveGay (talk) 08:57, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Casually using n-words

A while ago (before pandemics) I had an opportunity to get to know a group of ordinary American young adults and was surprised how they casually use n-words between each other as white men. Is this even a thing? Dogeatsdog (talk) 11:00, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

All I know is that plenty of African-Americans use it among themselves in terms of meaning friend. Same as if white people and black people are in the same group. --Racia zombio94 (talk) 12:01, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

people do pick up phrases, slang, accents of subcultures they not a part of specifically but interested in. when not unconscious, they might consciously drop a particular phrase that suitably indicates that have a passing interest in this subculture. maybe a white hip hop fan might say dawg a lot, eventually it might even be natural. there are black folk who do drop the n-word casually. a white chap in that environment might be able to pull it off too, if known to all in earshot. If these guys are not steeped into that kind of hip hop gangsta culture, its an unfortunate affectation at best that will give them some grief if outside of their group. is it some kind of schtick? are they doing a character bit like 'hey n word, we rapstars' 'word n-word, we got game' just amongst themselves where it wont be misinterpreted. maybe they have done the bit so often that's like a catchphrase or in joke between them. having not seen these chaps nor heard them, I couldn't say so just spit balling. I run out of innocent excuses pretty quick. do they do super racist jokes where racism is the punchline but would miss it if you did not know them well? I don't know, its sounds like a set up a skit on a sketch show. it sounds super tone deaf at best, but at worst, it doesn't sound like Nazis.

I super white though. I hear it out side of a black person, if i hear it spoken by white voices and there no obvious racism, it super weird. even used casually its jarring. its just a word and all, but a loaded one.

i'm also in the uk. its not a word that really has a casual use over here, black folk don't use it like black folk in the us sometimes do. least not as frequently AMassiveGay (talk) 12:15, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Generally speaking hip-hop culture in America does utilize the vernacularized version of the n-word ("nigga") a lot. It's part of the whole tradition of reappropriation that has occurred in many minority communities. The frequent appearance of the word in hip-hop and other entertainment is controversial even among the African-American community (see articles like this and this recent thing on Kendrick Lamar), and some of this controversy *is* because hip-hop culture is no longer *just* African-American, and the "different rules" aspect creates confusion, confusion that not only can create honest mistakes like the Lamar article shows, but one that racists can actually take advantage of by saying "if you can say it, why can't we?". (Jazz musician Wynton Marsalis used the frequent appearance of the n-word as one of the reasons to complain that hip-hop was "more damaging than a statue of Robert E. Lee" to African American culture -- I wouldn't go that far, but these opinions do exist.) Soundwave106 (talk) 14:54, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

just for the comparison some black british views. for the record Floella Benjamin does not approve, then it is objectively unacceptable under any circumstances.

the treatment lamarr gave that girl for rapping along to the tune he invited up rap along to, in my mind was unfair. however I don't feel there is much confusion generally except as to whether black people should be using the term. its pretty simple for white people - its ill advised. the double standard is not really that much of a quandry, one can cut some slack if the word that racists use against black people is in turn reappropriated and made maybe acceptable for black people to use but not for white people for which racists amongst them, find their racist word is still racist. make more of an effort to not be racist, maybe hateful words wont seem so hateful. maybe avoid such terms until they are better at not being worthless hateful pricks. its not like racists have any problem with different rules normally. they usually all for different rules. historically, its been one of there things. AMassiveGay (talk) 15:53, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

From what I've seen on Twitter, "nigga" seems to be commonly used in the Nazi gaming community, perhaps because of that Nintendo game.[1] Bongolian (talk) 20:06, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

It's bad PR from Nintendo, but that's from a game that lets you customize the villagers nicknames they give you and their catchphrases. Baabara's default catchphrase is "daahling" and probably previous players in those specific 14 copies meant for media press and not for retail changed it to "nigga". Just to set stuff straight. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 20:32, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

do you know, I am thinking a Nazi gaming community probably didn't need much encouragement to throw the word around, if it weren't already a popular choice. if were down to a pr blunder, likely forgotten by all except gaming obsessives, its really would be the level of 'they say bad word. me say bad word. huh huh huh'. I realise this probably not a group noted for intellectual rigour, but I think we can probably assume that if they know any racist slurs, its going to be that one. a slip up from Nintendo did not unleash the kkk. AMassiveGay (talk) 22:00, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

I have a couple points of reference for this. I knew a white guy who said it pretty casually in a non-derogatory sense, he had a lot of charisma and was very extroverted, he picked it up from the high school he went to. One time after he had stopped saying it, we talked about it and he was like "My high school friends gave me the card, but this isn't high school, and some of these other guys started saying it and I realized the card isn't real." The other point of reference is, when banning or censoring music that has the N word in it, I would point out that there is really only one style of music that uses the N word. Is it a point of convenience to say "I don't want to hear any N-word music" when you're really talking about rap or pop? I mean, radio country, I've held for a long time, is built and produced exactly like pop. I've heard auto-tune, radio-friendly raps, I've heard trap snare in radio country, radio country is literally just pop music for people who are scared they might actually like a song sung by a person of color.

Back on the point of casual use of the N-word, and a little group of white guys saying it to each other. If it's not as disrespect, parody is the highest form of flattery. If it's to call each other or other players in a game something that should get their blood boiling, I've left small team games with randos before. Trash talk, I don't like, but occasionally can put up with. Low level gameplay, I'll stick around and try and help. Low level trash talk, I'll flat out say "enjoy your Nazi shit, not on your team, I'll take the loss." or whatever is appropriate to the garbage hate. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 00:29, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Got a flashback to an old Clawfinger song:

Let’s just say that it tends to be misunderstood by some who either don’t know the band, don’t listen to the actual lyrics, or both. ScepticWombat (talk) 06:23, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

I approve of the white people don't be using racist slurs sentiment, more ambivalent to the white people lecturing black people on the correct way to process the racism they laid upon them. not overly keen on my right on sanctimony either. AMassiveGay (talk) 14:57, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Well, that's kinda the difficulty. The sanctimony of it still held by the wrong side of the use generally want to say it's ok to say, but only as a derogatory term, when that's not how it's used. And those people know how they are using it but pretend to not know how the word is used. I was just, tonight, arguing with a guy at work, and I know this is crazy nutso not apples to apples, but I referenced a guy I worked with there in high school who went off to actually teach Theoretical Mathematics, I'd known him since middle school. One guy told me "that sounds so stupid," and I gave him a look and he was like "well, I know it's not stupid but it sounds so stupid, theoretical math, like what?" and I said "It's kinda like talking about how math should work in the places we don't have it. You know, like, infinity times infinity." (I fumbled my words a little more than that) And the other guy said "Infinity squared, there, I just solved your math problem." I said "That's not how infinity works." He said "No, infinity is n" and I interrupted him and said "infinity is not n, n is a number" and he said "no, n is a variable" and I said "so is infinity, it's a placeholder" and he said "right, it's a placeholder for a number" and I said "infinity is not a number, it's a placeholder" and he said "that doesn't matter" and I said "infinity isn't a normal number" and he said "well, it is" and I fucking had him, but I was also panicking. "I'm going to google it over here for you" but really I was panicking because I'd never seen infinity squared before and I'm a mathematical dipshit, but I swear I remembered that is not how Infinity works. Listening to people who say the n-word is not complicated, I guess neither is multiplying infinity squared. I'm fucking floored by the math it takes to get to infinity, just casually calling infinity times infinity and then arguing with me when I said "that's not how it works" pissed me off and worried me. On the outside, the sanctimony argument is maybe a little hyperbolic, but like, the word has two meanings. On the one hand, it's derogatory, on the other hand it's casual, and separating the derogatory and casual use in order to make rules? Very messy. Gol Sarnitt (talk)

"infinity times infinity" This is something you can do. However, it just gives you the same kind of infinity you're starting with. Aleph-0 squared? Aleph-0, same as if you added them together instead of multiplied. It may make it more understandable to visualize this geometrically. There are infinitely many integers on the number line (aleph-0, specifically). Now put another number line at right angles to that and consider the complex plane. There are infinitely many points with integer values of both real and imaginary coordinates (still aleph-0, specifically). Considering the real numbers and all the points of the complex plain is the same relationship using aleph-1. However, there are other operations you can do with infinities. 2^(aleph-0)=aleph-1, for example. And "infinity" is a proper number, not a placeholder. The different kinds of infinity refer to specific things that are quantifiable and in most cases not interchangeable. It's generally preferable to avoid arguing about things you're not knowledgeable about. 192․168․1․42 (talk) 04:47, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Also, all these guys are agreed we don't say the N-word, so I'm way off point. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 01:05, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps we don't, but that wasn't the question. Despite the Voldemort-like air a lot of people give it, "the n word" is in principle just a word like any other. As such, it has no intrinsic meaning, and holds only the meanings people give to it. Naturally, different people and groups use the word differently, meaning different things in different contexts. I wouldn't expect Dogeatsdog's observation to be very common, but I'm not surprised that such use exists. And since the word is not magic, some people using it casually isn't actually a problem. 192․168․1․42 (talk) 04:47, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Ok, using it casually isn't actually a difference between the problem or solution. So this has me thinking a lot about the phrase "in polite society." So, no the power isn't necessarily in some magic word summoning, but the more casual and fun it is to use tends to express different takes. If it's not used in polite society, how is it understood in casual company, that doesn't mean it's suddenly powerless. I had a buddy who worked for a carpenter's union and once taught me sign language a deaf guy he worked with taught him. The signs were https://www.signingsavvy.com/features/maturesigns not polite and I was going through them with a party in the dorms. Right when I was describing the N-word sign, a black guy walked in, and I didn't immediately stop. Thankfully, I had a whole room of context on my side, I was still embarrassed as shit. But like, really, it's a difference between a vulgar word and a vulgar idea. The problem is the N-word as a pejorative is alive and well, especially in groups that really want to say the word should have no inherent meaning. End it as an intended pejorative and/or troll word, I'll talk about it having no intrinsic power. I hope you can see the mountain we're climbing here. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 04:10, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

“I was still embarrassed as shit” Because you saw the person as an instance of the Platonic idea of Black Guy, and Black Guys get offended when non-Black Guys use that word in any context?

“End it as an intended pejorative and/or troll word, I'll talk about it having no intrinsic power.” The “power” you’re talking about is extrinsic, not intrinsic. Calling someone by the same word has a very different meaning in Korean, for example, which has led to issues with American tourists. And pejoratives / “troll words” have linguistic utility. “This person is bad in a stereotypical way” crops up often enough that there are all sorts of words that express which stereotype is being invoked. You can find them on this page and elsewhere on the site. Ending the use of one because you find it offensive doesn’t get rid of the idea or the utility of using a word for that purpose, so it just advances the euphemism treadmill one step. 192․168․1․42 (talk) 04:38, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

You are getting a little outside of the argument, I probably didn't lay it that well. I agree, there is an extrinsic aspect, and that's the point I was saying when I brought up how ugly it is to say "I don't want to hear any n-word music," Who actually uses it extrinsically? That's not really a 1:1 relationship, so what I mean is, if it can be used extrinsically without a pejorative sense, which you fault me for considering the sign language, running your middle finger across your nose twice, to assume it's not pejorative, and a group of white guys at a, I dunno, probably 90% white college laughing about it. There are cultures that are diverse in race in America that can obviously achieve this extrinsic, not implicit, use of a word that is generally considered explicit. However, as alive and well as it is as a pejorative or troll world, or rather, as it is intended intrinsically in some broader culture, it's absolutely not ok. And as I've said, the card IS NOT REAL, even if I were allowed to call my friends by it, I wouldn't do any right to spread that as if it actually held extrinsic value in a conversational meaning. It's still a little slight, usually, but it's shade that is communally understood in the black community. I mean, we could ask if calling anybody a fag would be cool, just because I personally don't take offense does not create a new history of the word. Being said, a good effort can change the word we use, why is it so much harder to say something else? Gol Sarnitt (talk) 03:10, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Got a video rendering (unrelated to the script I made)

Holy shit it took a nice chunk of the day to make and edit. My video is about organ eating parasites with a dash of social satire relating to current events i.e conspiracy theorists, militia groups and the current protests. --Racia zombio94 (talk) 21:24, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Hear my train a comin'

Some Jimi Hendrix for you fucks. — Oxyaena ^Harass 21:55, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Speaking as one of those fucks, yeah Jimmy, go on get it! Gol Sarnitt (talk) 00:54, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Officially uncivilized

I've done absolutely nothing but play New Horizons. I think I'm starting to grow a beard. Anyways, why is it that in every Animal Crossing game you move in, buy shit, pay taxes to Tom Nook, pay loans to Tom Nook, buy some more shit, pay more taxes to Tom Nook, and have to deal with the same consumerist hellhole that you moved into?— Jeh2ow ^{Damn son!} 23:44, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

I refuse to play Animal Crossing for that exact reason. I played Harvest Moon 64 for hours after school every day when I was 14, three months later I was like "I need to play another game." Tried to go back to my farm a while later, and all my habits and speed-run style uses of stamina were broken, and I was like "This game isn't fun, holy shit, this game isn't fun!" Gol Sarnitt (talk) 00:50, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

If you don't know, you'll never know. 138.207.198.74 (talk) 04:34, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

paying off taxes and paying back loans probably fills the wish fulfilment element of gaming that is achieved with playing a pro sportsman or a super spy in other titles. its high fantasy these days. probably diverting enough and providing fun and stress free routes to achieving your whimsically mundane goals which are actually achievable and failure is a minor setback that wont require bleak choices between feeding yourself, paying rent, or getting that lump looked at. if it drags, or just not your thing you can try another title, rather than locked into the long hours, long commute, soul destroying minimum wage job that makes you consider the benefits of a mass shooting, employed by a prick getting rich from your labour, and even richer as your hours increase and pay decreases while lecturing you on his superior work ethic before fucking off to play golf. I suspect the usury of tom nook is probably more mildly annoying when it comes time for him collect, probably wont result in baliffs at the door, nor the loss of your teeth from the meth habit you acquired to face the tricks you now have to turn to pay for your meds now that lump is getting more cancery by day. on the plus side though, you are your own boss now, and can sleep in as long as you like, or at least till you are moved on from that bench by the police. animal crossing is relaxing frivolity, its not meant to be call of duty and only occasionally will you receive racist abuse. just a jolly and reassuring grind to take your mind of things.

its a kids game really so a players actual day might have more or less meth and prostitution. I might be a little jaded. AMassiveGay (talk) 09:12, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Pimpin in a kids game? https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/may/09/animal-crossing-nintendo-game-coronavirus-pandemic Either it's not really a kids game as you believe or someone seriously fucked up during the QA sessions Cardinal Chang (talk) 13:40, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

nope. still a kids game but with one of the reasons for parental controls on the internet. you already have heal sluts in overwatch and the less said about anything fan made that concerns whatever hobbies you might have. AMassiveGay (talk) 14:45, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

I need some of your help desparately!!!

As you may have seen once or twice my sig is ShabiDOO

It was suggested by a friend on another wiki ten years ago and I adored it and used it on multiple wikis and forums. But it's time to shake up the colors (though maybe the overall form?). I've put together some color combos I think define the shabidoo brand for the 21st century but if any of you could give your opinon on them or offer better color combinations I'd be extremely grateful. You can help me get out of this agnonizing rut. After all, your wiki identity defines you as a virtual agent doesn't it? At first I though about just switching the colors

ShabiDOO

but perhaps another set would be better?

1. ShabiDOO
2. ShabiDOO
3. ShabiDOO
4. ShabiDOO
5. ShabiDOO
6. ShabiDOO

Your input, suggestions or alternatives (even totally radically different forms) would be appreciated. and now I will sign this post with my perhaps soon to be changed sig ShabiDOO 15:13, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

My vote goes to #6. It is essentially a darker version of the one you currently have, but not too dark like the first two. Also, green may be my favorite color, but I'm not sold on the green options you provided. Crazymantis91 (talk) 15:42, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree that 6 looks the best. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 16:43, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

anything more than the classic blue is an abomination, made even worse by a lack of commitment. names at birth are imposed upon us, saving us from having to make our own choice of moniker, a horrific process of self doubt while we wrestle with what that choice says about you, does it say what you think? say to much? too little? will it still work in a years time? its a process once started that can never end, deed poll a simple procedure, and the temptation spinning your fundamental character into a vortex of terminal superficiality. we all largely choose our users names, the process just described an inherent risk from our first steps online, and an eternal damnation ever present. fight the urge to correct or update or perfect, its a deadly mirage. make the choice once and stay the course till you breath your last. if you had gone with bigdickladylover99 as your original handle, that wshall be on whatever passes as your gravestone in this online world. any misgivings or doubt that may arise will vanish as your stalwart commitment to what seemed funny at the time will crush all regret under the regal dignity and mighty gravitas that now imbues your choice. you are bigdickadylover99 a giant amongst men and demand our respect. stay true to your original gaudy colour scheme, shabidoo. the respect it earns you will shine through even the faint crosseyedness it produces, and will be remembered always as the embodiment of what humanity should strive for.

or number 2 maybe. its all good AMassiveGay (talk) 16:44, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Number 2 looks best. --Racia zombio94 (talk) 17:10, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Try on various different devices (including 'X who is still using Windows 7'/and also see if it works for the usual colour vision problems. Anna Livia (talk) 19:10, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

I like the original because it's a playful combination that fits pretty well with the name. However if you want to go for a radical color change, green and darkish sickly yellow are not good combinations. The yellow also doesn't seem to meet WCAG standards for contrast (again, neither does the original color scheme). Bright yellow and lime/aqua green just don't make for good colors for text unless you go really dark on them and stop becoming their original color and become more of a muddy brown. If you want to experiment with colors I think the "inspect element" lets you quickly change them. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 19:41, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, tbh I like the original colors better than any of the proposed options. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 04:43, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

You've all given me so much to think about. The consensus seems to be that I...should just be myself and not change with a few people suggesting the latter two. This has made my decision even harder because...staying true to myself was an option I never considered. I will agonize over this and I'll release a tweet every 5 minutes documenting my tortured feelings about this change which I recommend you follow if I knew what the twitter account was but I don't so you'll have to just await with bated breath. I'll make my decision in the summer time, perhaps mid-Autumn. Stay tuned and, thank so much for helping me with my existential conflict. I somehow feel more loved and embraced by my fellow online stranger-acquaintances. hugs and kisses. ShabiDOO 19:15, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

1-4 are either too dull or not readable enough against a white background. 5 and 6 are better, but to be honest your current color scheme is better. I'm a bit biased though, I prefer brighter colors that get your attention rather than anything dull, I'd prefer something like ShabiDOO. CoryUsar (talk) 22:50, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Need ideas for a new EAS scenario

Thoughts on these ideas:

• Demonic Invasion
• Big Crunch (Universe Collapse)
• Global Superstorm
• Hawaiian Revolt
• Global Freeze --Racia zombio94 (talk) 20:45, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

You forgot Goat Invasion. Blitz (Complaints Box) 23:36, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Extreme talcum powder shortage. Maybe that's more of a presidential alert thing. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 00:32, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

@Ikanreed that would be known as an "Emergency Action Notification" or "EAN" for short. That alert is national level and is give by Presidential order or by the Department of Defense (not sure which organization though). --Racia zombio94 (talk) 00:40, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

LI'll try and get it this weekend. I really don't wan a parody EAS to sound real, we can talk about that/ Gol Sarnitt (talk) 05:47, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

At this rate Acidic will be stuck in development Hell. I will think of a new project. --Racia zombio94 (talk) 17:38, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Attack of the rabid bobcats. 2607:FB90:933C:643:91A2:D980:330D:95CD (talk) 01:36, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

This is my fault

This is my fucking fault Gol Sarnitt (talk) 02:58, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for admitting it. We were worried. Cosmikdebris (talk) 03:00, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

But that's stupid too. I'm worried about my next gen, who the fuck are you worried about? Gol Sarnitt (talk) 03:12, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

The future of humanity. Cosmikdebris (talk) 03:39, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Conversation is tricky,- you have to listen.Gol Sarnitt (talk) 04:00, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Dipshittterey is not a doghouse to house in, sorry, I'm pretty lit. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 04:41, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

It's Friday night here in the eastern US, many of us are all lit now. Cosmikdebris (talk) 04:54, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

can't stop cryin, start talkin again when I know what to say Gol Sarnitt (talk) 05:19, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Well, shit, I don't remember that one. I do know there's a lot of things I'm trying to avoid, like constantly, and I've left myself vague blackout tests/notes before, I think this is just a lament on a specific personal failure that is not relevant or missional. It can be removed. I'm really sorry I posted it here. I'm usually pretty good at no weekends, how do I ban myself starting Friday? Gol Sarnitt (talk) 01:20, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Is geopolitics trustworthy?

Title.

I'm asking this mostly because these days I roam around the internet and find more and more 'geopolitically-backed' theories about how Chinese people are 'naturally subservient to authoritarianism', some which leak into rambling about a 'Lesbian-to-Wall Street pipeline', others which... oh. Somebody fell asleep at the keyboard. It's gotten to the point where I sit here, an avid reader of geopolitical theories, and wonder whether the entire concept is credible or not. Kurorin04 (talk) 07:57, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

On talk pages, please sign your comments using four tildes (~~~~) or by clicking on the sign button: on the toolbar above the edit panel. You can also indent successive talk page comments using one more colon (:) for each line. Thank you. Spud (talk) 07:46, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

No, it's a bunch of bullshit. — Oxyaena ^Harass 07:51, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Well, the stuff you mention sounds pretty weird and other odd ideas come up. But "geopolitics" as an area of study combining geography and politics is perfectly valid.Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 15:51, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

That's not Geo-politics. Those are Conspiracy Theories. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 15:53, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Banjo duel

— Oxyaena ^Harass 07:49, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Excellent movie, though they used some camera trickery for that shot; the kid wasn't playing, they somehow set it up so an adult kneeled behind him and reached around to play the banjo. He and the hillbillies are actually native north Georgians, and the cop at the end was the author (who was also a native Georgian, and swore for the rest of his life that his book and the movie based on it were accurate depictions of north Georgia). Definitely recommend it. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 19:24, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

As an aside the Chattooga River (which was used for much of the scenery, including the rapids, in that movie) is a fun whitewater river to run, though the IV section is relatively technical (our family did the "guided with large raft" version for both the III section and IV section a long time ago). Soundwave106 (talk) 18:20, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

This section is a lie

This sentence is false. — Oxyaena ^Harass 20:40, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Using which particular logic system? Anna Livia (talk) 22:17, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

One of the commandments says you can't lie. So we must smite you. Everyone get your smiting forks ready. ShabiDOO 22:24, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Heretic. Smiting is properly done with hammers.Kencolt (talk) 02:42, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

So lately when I've been on Youtube...

...I've constantly been bombarded by ads for the Epoch Times shilling QAnon and saying China did the virus, and generally being more Pro-Trump than Breitbart. Anyone else been having similar experiences?𝔖𝔲𝔪𝔪𝔞 𝔄𝔱𝔥𝔢𝔬𝔩𝔬𝔤𝔦𝔠𝔞 (𝔮𝔲𝔢𝔯𝔢𝔩𝔦𝔰) (𝔰𝔠𝔯𝔦𝔭𝔱𝔲𝔯𝔞) 00:58, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

I block ads on Youtube. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 01:05, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

You wouldn't download ad revenue. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 02:39, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

The Indian media has totally bought into this conspiracy theory, and had begun to portray Trump sympathetically. Teerthaloke101 (talk) 01:33, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Authoritarians like fellow authoritarians until war is declared. Epoch Times was advert-bombarding The Obama Foundation's "Graduate Together" broadcast tonight. Bongolian (talk) 05:26, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

it helps that a scapegoat able to deflect scrutiny of trumps own failures works just as well for others who might need one. AMassiveGay (talk) 15:59, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

RationalWiki most viewed pages

Hi, could anyone provide me with a way to view the pages ranked by views? I tried looking in the Special Pages, but didn't find a way to do it, thanks.--TestTestTest (talk) 04:48, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Don't think you can nowadays. Something was done years ago that stopped it (moving hosts or something) - until then every page had a view count at the bottom. Scream!! (talk) 15:02, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

The page view counts would be meaningless in any case, since the server has a caching layer that loads pages from memory in order to improve performance. Cosmikdebris (talk) 22:09, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

How reliable is "HOPE not hate"?

Found this and I liked the way they divided the elements of alt-right subcultures. Not sure if its completely applicable today, as I'm pretty sure alt-rights have made a huge progression since 2016-7. Anyhow, how reliable is the HOPE not hate group and their information? Dogeatsdog (talk) 08:07, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

its a uk based organisation, so our Nazis-in-all-but-name are going to different to us based ones. the reliability might be effected by how relevant their info is to your locale. or indeed, politics.

that document is much more update than 2016. some the reports we make reference to events dated 2018. alt right wont changed that much for whats in this. most of the reports seem like more snapshots. the specifics of the people and events detailed in them might no longer be the same, but to get a general overview or feel for what it is and how similar or different it maybe across different areas, its fine. its not providing the sort of information that might be used to build a case or an argument. a very loose or broad argument maybe.

its an anti racist advocacy group at the end of the day. they go after more than just Nazis. its reliable if you agree with their targets of campaigns and how they frame it. im not aware of any significant criticism that would suggest they are militant zealots or show any obvious bias. AMassiveGay (talk) 12:48, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Cool! I love the inclusions of neo-reactionary/technolibertarian (assuming people like Peter Thiel and Musk fanboys in mind?), paleolibertarian (anarcho-capitalists?) and survivalists (gun-nuts maybe?). As an entry-level handbook, its quite detailed I suppose. Dogeatsdog (talk) 14:47, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

I`m a member of the SRA (Socialist Rifle Association). We actually do good work, highway cleanups, providing the homeless with clothing etc, unlike the NRA. — Oxyaena ^Harass 16:03, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

I can't speak much about gun debates besides I have an irrational fear about life in the States because of all the news on gun violence, and I wouldn't want to live in a place where gun ownership is prevalent. But it's just my impression, not a tangible opinion. Dogeatsdog (talk) 09:48, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

America is big and quite empty (particularly in the West) and guns make more sense in rural areas -- there is a strong hunting culture that just wouldn't be possible in tighter packed nations like much of Europe. The whole pretend military thing some alt-right types engage in doesn't make sense (as the Branch Davidians proved a long time ago, all those semi-automatics and whatnot are pretty useless against even modest military gear) but that's another story. (It's the same with "survivalism" culture, COVID-19 has exposed just how poor this group is prepared for an actual crisis). Many cities in the US have areas which aren't the safest after dark, but other countries have this problem in even worse proportion (eg Latin America), and it is possible to over-exaggerate the problem here (a phenomenon reported in the States in some places, called the "knockout game", is an example; the general conclusion I've come to is that such was an over-hyped urban myth pieced together from isolated incidents, driven by the sort-of racist, usually hysterical local reporting news sources as usual). There is a bit of a gun fetish culture (NRA-heads) that mainly seems to lead to too many tasteless bumper stickers on trucks (the Venn diagram with this culture intersects with the type of person that puts "truck nutz" on their hitch or pirated stickers of faux-Calvins pissing on various logos or NASCAR numbers) but this is a "whatever" to me in many ways, just hope they know what they are doing and keep safe, you get the impression that some of these folks would take more safety precautions with basic power tools (gun accidents and gun suicides are a significant problem here in the US). I wouldn't mind tightening down the type of features that are mainly useful for mass shooting idiots, of course, but IMHO the vast majority of gun owners are responsible ordinary folk. Soundwave106 (talk) 13:40, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

But there is a growing trend in the States in which there are less gun owners but more guns. During the Obama administration there rose a new class of gun owner the "super-owner" averaging a collection of around 17 guns https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/20/gun-ownership-america-firearms-super-owners. Now I don't know what bit of owning 17 guns because the president has different colour skin sounds responsible, maybe I missed a meeting down the docks during the pandemic. Also, it's very easy to think the NRA represents the majority of gun owners, they don't. There are numerous gun groups, they just aren't as loud or annoying, but are more or less equally scary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Gun_rights_advocacy_groups_in_the_United_States Cardinal Chang (talk) 21:55, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

This is correct: the number of hunters / sharpshooters is in decline and the number of people who own guns for "protection" and identity reasons are a high, rising part of the equation. Gun culture has gone from an archetype being Theodore Roosevelt to a culture of paranoia and racism, how's that for making America great again? I do think that the NRA (who essentially are a marketing wing for the firearms industry) have noticed for the last few decades that the paranoid were a far more profitable segment of the market than your average deer hunter (it only takes one rifle to shoot deer but you can get the paranoid to buy multiple expensive semi-automatic weapons for, frankly, no real good reason, yay!), and have shifted their focus accordingly. Makes them no better than the fundie preachers or the conspiracy kooks. Generally I see the users as more sad versus scary, except for the few mass shooting incidents, and the overlap with any white power thugs that do use violence. The NRA is taking advantage of what the last few decades of Republican-styled economics have done to their white working class buying audience and selling a non-solution for their fears. So fuck the NRA though for their radicalism. There are firearms advocacy groups such as the Second Amendment Foundation that advocate gun rights without all the whole "liberals are gonna take your guns!" paranoia of the NRA. Soundwave106 (talk) 00:44, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

They are damn reliable. Their info and work on the putrid mess that is Britain First and it's idiotic spokes people, Jayda Fransen and Paul Goulding is quite helpful. As well as their detailing of the nutcase in Northern Ireland (how can you tell he's a nutcase compared to the DUP?) Jim Dowson and his ties to rather nefarious groups in Hungary. Cardinal Chang (talk) 21:59, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

This particular report seems quite thorough and not only gives a good overview of the various strands within the often ill defined alt-right, but also a rogues’ gallery of some of the central operators within some of these strands. It’s also a classic trait of these far right groups that they splinter incessantly and while they do exchange views, formal collaboration is notoriously difficult (as can be seen from the mayfly like life spans of some of the far right political party groups in the European Parliament). ScepticWombat (talk) 08:16, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Hendrix 2.0

— Oxyaena ^Harass 16:01, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Hendrix fucking rules, he was a virtuoso who built his guitar himself for his playstyle and got it so fucking right, which is in and of itself so very strange. The Hendrix guitar is a puzzle. I mean, watching the guys who can just do it, Hendrix, Clapton, Lynn, just ace all over blues rock without missing a thing, it's a fucking thing. I'm not a deep metal fan, but Carla Kihlstedt is a virtuoso on violin and instead of blues rock, she really likes eccentric metal.

02:02, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Is my idea bad? Gol Sarnitt (talk) 03:51, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

John F. Mac Arthur

I may write the article for that old Hyper-Calvinist Fundy who presides The Master's University instead of adding it to the list of requested articles. His entry on the Encyclopedia of American Loons -is there- says it all, like some entries in the skeptic section of Reddit, his article and what I picked up on the waves ("Grace to God"), mainly dispensationalist End Times nonsense about a USA&Israel-Russia&European (COMECON, even if it has not existed for decades?) war, Calvinism, and other similar Fundy stuff. The man according to said blog checks all boxes.

However I doubt it would be good enough, since others here will probably know him better and quite closer. Panzerfaust (talk) 22:24, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Dealing with a shitty job

I need a piece of advice on how to deal with a shitty job I currently have. For some family reasons I had to pause my postgraduate degree and work for like a year or two to save some money. This was my first time working, I chose some random job where they told me even introverts like me can thrive. It was true on that part but the job is boring as hell (some back office job) and not particularly easy at the same time, requiring quite a lot of commitment. I was expecting to do some easy ass job, where I can spend my time continuing my research or reading nice little books after checking out. It turns out the job consumes a lot of energy and I don't even have any mental capacity to read a book or two, all my life is a cycle of eat -> sleep -> work like some animals.

Some of y'all would say I should be thankful at least for having a job in this climate. But that's the thing, if it wasn't for the lockdown and recession and all that, there could've been an option of just quitting this shitty job and switch to somewhere else. But more than that, it's emotionally exhausting to think that I am unable to do what I want to do and pursue my passion. It's my economic reason that put me in this place, and there was no other option. So I need fo calm my emotions and let myself become like an emotionless robot or literally a cogwheel. This is what I wanna know. How to surrender myself to the capitalist system and become a shitty piece of a cogwheel and work for a year or two without having some mental breakdown. Thanks guys. Dogeatsdog (talk) 10:15, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

all work is soul destroying drudgery, and for those few people whose jobs are fulfilling should consider themselves blessed.

you shouldn't be surprised that you have to spend your time actually working either. its kinda why you get paid AMassiveGay (talk) 10:25, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Well I'm fine with having to work during my working hours, but I didn't expect I'll be so tired I can't even finish reading one chapter of my favorite books after finishing off my work. I need to eat, watch some dumb youtube videos to refresh my mind, and sleep immediately to charge my body battery for the next day. Dogeatsdog (talk) 10:55, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

sounds like you maybe not used to the grind. you get used to it AMassiveGay (talk) 11:18, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

I just started working this April so yes you guessed right. I just hope you're also right about the 'get used to it' part.Dogeatsdog (talk) 11:33, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Don't get too used to it. 147.147.211.30 (talk) 11:59, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

My seniors told me the same thing, but I really can't even picture myself being a workaholic at my current workplace. Getting too used to creating articles at rationalwiki, that I can do. Dogeatsdog (talk) 12:09, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Buy a lottery ticket, pray to God, win tons of cash and never have to work again. Dedicate yourself to improving rationalwiki. I think this is the most logical answer :) ShabiDOO 14:41, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

"Buy a lottery ticket, pray to God": "I thought this was supposed to be RATIONALWiki."

Most jobs have some quotient of boring. The important thing is to try to move on to working at a job that at least minimizes the amount of boring for you. Even jobs that seem like they could be lots of fun like 'scientist' can be quite boring at times, e.g. collecting data can be very tedious, or on opposite end outright disgusting.[2] Bongolian (talk) 04:00, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm reading "job is boring as hell (some back office job) and not particularly easy at the same time, requiring quite a lot of commitment" So the job is difficult, requires commitment and at the same time it's boring. It's an interesting set of attributes.Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 10:43, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Well things are going to shit and fast

My apartment is flooding. Trying to contact the landlord. Bloody hell. --Racia zombio94 (talk) 18:55, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Down below

— Oxyaena ^Harass 20:09, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Gol Sarnitt (talk) 02:30, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

AMassiveGay (talk) 11:35, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Hahahaha, holy shit, is that my bass levels or standard? I love it. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 02:06, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Well things are going to shit and fast

My apartment is flooding. Trying to contact the landlord. Bloody hell. --Racia zombio94 (talk) 01:44, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

If y'all got renter's insurance, use the money to dip on the lease, pay the next deposit and get an apartment that doesn't flood. If you can swing it, keep that lease break money and try and get a second or third floor instead for a better deal, suffer the cost of a new couch on your own. Rainy season is not gonna slow down, if your apartment is flooding now it will happen again soon. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 03:17, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Going to be taking with the landlord today. Right now the situation is stable for now. --Racia zombio94 (talk) 12:25, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Research renter's rights in your city, state and county (if in the US); if the problem is not resolved, it may be possible to place your rent in escrow, or otherwise withhold, until it is. That's further down the line than where you are, landlord's still investigating and the situation is stable, but you should know your options. Good luck. Semipenultimate (talk) 15:54, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Everything is fine. Only real damage was to the carpets. --Racia zombio94 (talk) 21:19, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Well, you can't claim that, since that's technically the apartment, not you. But if you have any renter's insurance at all, (I pay 4.25 a month for $4000 in insurance that I will never see, because the apartment owners require proof of some form of it), it would coincide with the complex's claim, and I would have to prove that, most likely. At that point, they wouldn't bother to dispute it. Renter's insurance is cheap because claims don't need to be taken seriously unless they coincide with a larger claim that, yes, something did happen. Like, get all your stuff stolen but only your window got broken? Renter's insurance won't help you, they'll maybe audit you. Your apartment building gets flooded or burnt or the foundation is damaged in an earthquake, that's where the insurance money goes, and at those levels, they'll just go ahead and pay you too. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 01:49, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

PJW on the migrant crisis

Is the situation as bad as he makes it out to be? Asking for a friend. Nebuchadnezzar7658 (talk) 04:37, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

What situation? I can't be bothered to watch that whole pile of crap. Unless you mean the Islamophobia situation in which case, yes the Islamophobia situation is just as bad as that talking turd stain makes it seem, bastards are everywhere. 108.74.221.149 (talk)

(I am BoN above) I've been a dormant lurker here on RW for years, so maybe I don't remember how things are supposed to work, but, as far as I can recall you ( @Nebuchadnezzar7658 ) don't have the right to delete a talk section without giving a reason for doing so. SolPyre (talk) 03:05, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Given it's PJW, I remain highly skeptical. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 04:11, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Didn't watch long (there's better uses for my time), but a quick skim of the video seems to reveal the usual cherry picking job that this type of thing always tends be. I could probably put together a similar scare video on, say, the English, by using the worst hooliganism-type incidents I can find. Soundwave106 (talk) 15:35, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Could only watch the first minute or so. South Korea is actually one of the most racist countries on Earth, but you wouldn't know about that from our media. A full 1% of South Koreans signing a petition to ban muslims would not surprise me.

Also, watched a bit further. Around the 4 minute mark, he shows "Jews being whipped on the streets of Berlin". In that case, it was actually an Arab who had been whipped; the story there was the Arab was trying to insist that his Jewish friends were exagerrating the danger of being Jewish, so he wore a kippa... and got hit with a hate crime for looking Jewish. CoryUsar (talk) 17:23, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Small Qs

I'm new to the wikia system and hope asking these questions here won't piss off anyone... 1. Where's the best place to suggest an article topic? 2. Where's the best place to ask for assistance on writing articles (i.e. asking for someone to help interpret a crank video) Thanks. Metazero (talk) 14:41, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

In reality you are probably best off asking here. I'll put a welcome template on your page. Click some of those links and they should give you some ideas. And asking questions shouldn't piss anyone off. :-) You have made a good start by signing! Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 15:17, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

As to question number 1: RationalWiki:To_do_list/Suggestions ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 21:17, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

I thought of suggesting that - as it's the place for it. But I imagined that, as a brand new user, they might prefer some feedback on their ideas before jumping in there.Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 10:38, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

You tube links.

Is these any way these things could take up less screen-space?Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 10:45, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

can probably do with a lot less music videos AMassiveGay (talk) 11:45, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Ad-block software actually can remove the Youtube embedded videos from the page entirely with custom filters; for instance, adding the custom filter rationalwiki.org##.embedvideowrap to uBlock Origin's custom block list seems to do the trick. If that's what you want. Soundwave106 (talk) 15:04, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Really? OK thanks, I'll have a look. I use multiple browsers and devices but I'll see if I can set that up on the most usual.Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 16:34, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Hey! That's pretty cool! Thanks. Just have to remember it's there.Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 19:50, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Rugged Individualism Counterarguments

Lately, a lot of thoughts about the whole Rugged Individualism concept used by some on the right as a sort of argument against socialism (which is sort of a broad term in itself). Like this sort of "Old West" or "Closing the Frontier" belief. It's hard for even me to grasp the entirety of it. So I've been thinking of counterarguments for it, then editing our Rugged Individualism page to have all that stuff. Because right now it's sorta skimpy on that stuff.

Unfortunately, this is harder than it seems. Any help? Metazero (talk) 15:36, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Basically ask rugged and independent like rural farmers in Canada or Norway or Australia if they'd ever give up the social programs, medicare, government funded programs that are all supported by modern mixed capitalist-socialist countries ... and you'll get like 95% no. So basically, you can be both very independent on your own land doing mostly what you want and yet still benefit from everything socialism offers. And if that's not enough, just take a time machine and go back and see how these rugged wild-west people felt when their house burnt down or they got sick and didn't have any government assistance to fall back on or couldn't afford the doctor's bills. They either adapted living a meager subsistence subservient life or used crime to help feed themselves. Sounds grand doesn't it? Basically every single developed western country except the U.S. has done it, and only a tiny minority in those countries ever want to go back. You'd think it was inevitable but the U.S. has proven itself furiously resistant to things like the metric system or dropping the death penalty. I'm not sure how inevitable it is. ShabiDOO 15:45, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Socialism wise, the United States actually can be generous if the "socialism" benefits business, and farming is one of the more generous areas here. No, the "rugged" farmers in the US aren't going to give up their soybean subsidies, either. Soundwave106 (talk) 15:55, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

In the US and Canada, some of the first movements that we'd consider economically leftist in the modern sense had their roots among rural farmers in the West and Midwest. William Jennings Bryan first made his name as a populist firebrand from the prairie, railing against the big banks, the railroads, and the gold standard for trapping farmers in debt. And around the turn of the 20th century, the mines in Colorado, Montana, Idaho, and Nevada were hotbeds of some of the more radical unions, including the predecessor to the Industrial Workers of the World. "Rugged individualism" is based on a very idealized and mythologized image of the Old West that has a greater basis in Hollywood movies and dime-store novels than it does in real life. (It's unfortunate that one of the few Westerns that really focuses on that side of the Old West, Michael Cimino's Heaven's Gate, was also one of the most notorious bombs in Hollywood history.) KevinR1990 (talk) 17:14, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Looking at our page it is somewhat light on current references. But I don't know if it's a big issue in the States at the moment.Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 16:32, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

I don't know if you'd call this a stopped clock moment, but the people most generically associated with Rugged Individualism [can also stop right wing/big business] agendas. In a deep red state, in an area politically red as Mars, you had people actively fighting against their governor and federal congressional/senate appointees, and fight over eminent domain threats from a state level. And you know who signed up to fight with us? [First Nations] And you know where the fight is now?[arbitrary legalese as a final defense]. How do we criticize "rugged individualism" as a general thing that shouldn't be subsidized? Like, farming, but only if you can supply the nation's food without my tax money? Like, yeah, be a native, maintain your culture, but only if you can't have designated land? I'm not calling anyone out, I legitimately want to ask what rugged individualism means, in SPITE of something like socialist incentives. Not everyone who benefits from the dole, even if the dole is doled bad, is bad for benefitting by the dole. A lot of them are kinda trapped, as if benefiting from a government subsidy SHOULD open their property to government sanctioned private infrastructure. Gol Sarnitt (talk) 03:06, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

When I get bored and create something stupid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZsnz9RnG_I

All hail the goats! Super Mecha Death Goat is coming! --Racia zombio94 (talk) 01:32, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Bongolian doxxed

He is actually Mike Pence. No, I won't explain it. — Oxyaena ^Harass 10:40, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Bongolian (talk) 16:17, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

How about explaining it. I am a bit confused here. --Racia zombio94 (talk) 16:33, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Don't worry about it. Oxy is a bit... different than most folks. CoryUsar (talk) 17:19, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Just because Bongolian is the douchiest vice-president ever doesn't mean he deserves to be doxxed. ShabiDOO 19:07, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ @CorruptUser Fuck you too. — Oxyaena ^Harass 11:01, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Please do so, I'm kind of lonely. CoryUsar (talk) 19:27, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

For all piglovers

— Oxyaena ^Harass 16:04, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Jesus buttfucking Christ I don't have time for an hour-long video-"Shut up, Brx." 20:02, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

A major frustration among philosophers...

...is how often they have to deal with people arguing on a topic in which they've never read a book. Some philosophers are guilty of this too. I am sure most of you can relate to this (certainly in other intellectual fields as well). ShabiDOO 22:12, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Hits morons over the head with books by Postmodernists. Seriously, this is a thing I hate. A number of Post-modernists were openly critical of Marxism. READ THE DAMNED BOOKS YOU DAMNED TROGS!!! ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 22:20, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

But how will I be able to continue to be smug about things without taking the time to master a skill? I don't have time to actually learn something in depth, I'm too busy hanging around internet sites! CoryUsar (talk) 22:43, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

This little pictorial digression has a certain "Pythonesque" feel to it. Which, I suppose, is somewhat beside the point.^{Or is it?} Kencolt (talk) 23:35, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

What?!? Dialectical materialism and anti-materialism aren't the same?!?! ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 02:28, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

From what I can tell, and as a non-Philosopher I'm sure you could disagree with me, Philosophy is both the highest and lowest form of education. It's the highest, because how we understand the world, our ethical systems, our sense of logic, all of that is more "pure" and more important than anything you could get from studying Physics. It's the lowest, because it seems to be incredibly easy to simply create philosophical bullshit that can't be disproven or proven. Might not actually be the case, but that's how it seems. I see things through my lens as a mathematician, and the mere existence of multiple schools of thought brings out the bullshit alarms. The closest we will have to multiple schools of thought are Bayesians vs Frequentists, but that's more of an issue of interpreting models than the actual math. In Mathematics, proven theorems typically don't get supplanted with others, you won't ever see someone saying "oh, Bayes' Theorem was good in its time, but Bayes was lacking information and context that we now have, so I subscribe to the works of Paul Erdos instead". In Physics, sometimes an accepted theorem does get upended, but for the most part you won't see someone saying "since we discovered relativity, Newtonian physics can be ignored", since for anything that doesn't involve relativistic distances or speeds, the error resulting from ignoring relativity would be too small to even be detected. Yet you seem to see that in the Philosophy department.

Personally, my guiding philosophy and ethics seems to be Nihilism. I don't believe there is inherent meaning to life, but that absolutely does not mean life is meaningless, because we have the ability to decide for ourselves what the meaning of life is. I don't believe there is inherent "right" or "wrong", but that doesn't mean morals don't exist, because we decide what those morals are. CoryUsar (talk) 06:37, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Philosophers are so used to that kind of ignorance of what philosophy is, the many fields studied within philosophy departments and how easy it is to pick apart the crap from the useful...that you learn not to roll your eyes anymore. The many many many branches of philosophy include pure logic which is one of the most difficult fields to bullshit (though...like anything it can be done). You have philosophy to thank for most forms of formal logic. Other seemingly empirical topics are modern approaches to the philosophy of science, artificial intelligence, theories of mind, applied aesthetics (how art affects the subject) and so on (it is a long list). Political philosophy is more hit or miss but you can be sure that theories of justice are well put together and backed with empirical evidence (apart from a few central axioms). Ethics is at the bottom of the list because the systems do depend on unprovable axioms however ethicists are now dealing with empirical data from psychology and human studies trying to prove which systems have the most positive effect on an individual and societal basis, especially when dealing with bio-ethics a field where philosophers are in high demand. Just take the good nuggets of pre 20th century philosophy worth keeping (growing pains), discard anything post-modern (all of it is pure garbage). And don't be so quick to discount what are called "grievance studies". Some of it is post-modern drivel but a lot of it is empirically based. Not all queer studies is hyper speculative garbage. How queer people are perceived and treated can be empirically studied and described. You'll have no problem finding garbage in any field including the hard sciences. It is a myth that a philosophy degree is a fluff piece...graduates go on to make high salaries in good jobs. ShabiDOO 07:12, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

CorruptUser, I can recommend The Myth of Sisyphus. It's a quick read, compared to a lot of other philosophical tomes. Camus struggled, likewise, with the lack of inherent meaning/purpose/'the why' of life. You may be more of an Existentialist than you realize. Semipenultimate (talk) 15:01, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Absurdism gang represent. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 15:55, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm well aware of how much of mathematics and computer science is actually an offshoot of Philosophy. Thomas Bayes, who I mentioned, was a philosopher before he was a mathematician, and then you have Blaise Pascal of Pascal's Triangle and Pascal's wager. I did mention that Philosophy was the highest form of education in addition to being the lowest. As for the Myth of Sisyphus, I think I have something to read during my lockdown. CoryUsar (talk) 16:10, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

The philosophy of mathematics rabbit hole called. Really bad line, but pretty sure it said we all float down here? Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 18:00, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Yeah...that article must have been written by an undergraduate! ShabiDOO 18:20, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

lolwut? Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 01:23, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Yeah that's a very bad writer. You succeeded in pointing out a bad academic. Shall I point out bad psychologists, historians, mathematicians or scientists? ShabiDOO 03:35, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

You're certainly entitled to your opinion of his prose. For the record, I'd rank it as tolerable within the not particularly distinguished ranks of philosophy textbook / primer material, with extra credit for writing in a second language. As for his overall academic prowess, unless you've got any substantive objections re. the accuracy of the article (or his wider body of work), you should probably shut the fuck up and stop making yourself look silly. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 23:46, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Helena, non-native English speakers write fabulous academic texts every day. They can be better than native-English speaker's texts. I don't have a problem with his academic record necessarily. But the text on the stanford encyclopedia page was excessive in every way. You could chop that down to 25% of its volume and say a whole lot more. ShabiDOO 06:15, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Quinn’s program of Naturalized Philosophy is well worth a look. Uriel Blackwood (talk) 07:43, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Do you mean Quine's naturalized epistomology? I haven't read up on epistemology in a long long time but from what I remember he helped pioneer an empirical/scientific approach to epistemology. I'd imagine its developed significantly in the last 20 years or so. ShabiDOO 08:25, 25 May 2020 (UT

Yeah sorry I meant Quine. Yes the project was called Naturalized Epistemology and one of its central aims was to study philosophical questions from within science, as opposed to a prior philosophy which claims some privileged access separate to that of science. From what I can tell the spirit of the program lives on in actual scientific practise, particularly current neuroscience. However, within current philosophy there is still a marked reluctance to abandon the old tenets of the analytic style.Uriel Blackwood (talk) 08:43, 25 May 2020 (UTC) I take great offense to the earlier statement by CoryUsar that philosophy comes to more important conclusions than physics. The conclusions of philosophy mean *nothing* if physics does not support it. If your philosophy says the universe is deterministic, it doesnt matter your logic, you are *wrong* because quantum mechanics disagrees with you. If you think time is the same for everyone you are *wrong* because we know general relativity. Physics is the door through which any philosophical ideas have to get through before they are even worth talking about. Philosophy can never prove physics wrong, but physics can prove a philosophy wrong, ergo physics is greater. MirrorIrorriM (talk) 16:52, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Mirror what the hell are you talking about? Physics and philosophy are not exclusive. Physics was literally borne out of philosophy. And philosophy is the domain where physics is questioned at a meta-level. They are not entirely exclusive. And physics does not = the hard sciences. It is only one of them. People in the domain of physics don't ask or answer questions directly about the scientific method, what physics is, how physicians work in practice, how their own methods can have flaws (all investigative methods have flaws) or how reliable the knowledge that comes from the scholarly consensus among physicists are. Having said that...which of the domains are best? Neither of them are. They both have their own roles. Physics is one particular branch of science which deals with the empirical investigation of the laws the of the universe. Philosophy is an enormous umbrella of several studies that deal mostly with meta-questions (especially in relation to the sciences) as well as a long list of other niche investigations, always dealing with asking and answering questions. Which is better? Well at a level of understanding the physical laws of the universe specifically it depends what you are interested in. Are you interested in the actual data and conclusion or are you interested in how it works in practice and to what extent we can rely on flawed human beings doing the best they can under what (at least most philosophers of science have concluded) are the most reliable methods to gain reliable knowledge. But that ground work matters. So which give the most important answers? Well that depends on which answers are most important to you. I thinks it's absurd to say that any of the following studies: psychology, economics, physics, chemistry, media-studies or philosophy are "better" or more intellectually valuable than any other on a whole. It's only more valuable to the individual and that depends entirely on their own interests and agendas. And no...branches of philosophy can survive quite fine on their own without knowing a single thing about gravity or quantum physics or particles (for example pure logic or bio-ethics). ShabiDOO 17:24, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

The sky is falling (episode whatever)

Where on RW does this belong? Anna Livia (talk) 23:04, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Draft:5G - Evaluate for move

Some editors want to go take a look at Draft:5G and decide if we've developed it enough for a move out of the draft space? If something feels underdone, feel free to point it out and I'll make another pass on it.--NavigatorBR (Talk) - 23:42, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Based on length & citations; yes. I haven't looked at the content yet. Bongolian (talk) 01:57, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Per Bongolian. Unless it's seriously broken and not immediately apparent that it is broken, this is definitely ready for the move. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 02:22, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

I think drafts are kinda silly and any good idea should pollute mainspace. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 02:27, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the feedback. I moved it into the main space, and moved it to 'new' section of the "To do" page.--NavigatorBR (Talk) - 03:10, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Looks good overall, @NavigatorBR. I made some edits. Bongolian (talk) 19:41, 23 May 2020 (UTC)