RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive23

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, (new)(back)

Goodbye RA

Well, looks like RA has gone. Regardless of whether you got on well with him or not, let's all have a drink for him. Now, where's CUR...? SJ ^Debaser 17:47, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Your drinks, gentlemen. -- 20:26, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Explain pls! _and marmite 18:00, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Radioactive Afikomen or however ya spell it's gone. Drown your sorrows or celebrate, I dunno. SJ ^Debaser 18:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

See User:Radioactive afikomen. Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 18:13, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Not another one, AKjelsen and TOP have left as well this year. Totnesmartin 18:37, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I guess it's a bit like pioneers and homesteaders. I have heard it said before that people who build and initiate projects have a tendency to go somewhere else after things are up and running. Here, very few of the original gang are still active.--Bob^{bing up} 18:43, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

TOP's only gone for a bit, apparently. -- 20:26, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Here is the original gang. How many do you recognise?--Bob^{bing up} 18:46, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

You know, I never really understood this notion of "leaving" a wiki. I think I used the word after being blocked on Conservapedia, but I never considered myself a proper "member" of Conservapedia, just an outside observer with stuff to say. Honestly, that's probably the best description of what I do here. I try to keep track of what's going on, at least in passing when I have time. I say stuff when I have stuff to say. And that's about it. If I were to never post anything again, I honestly don't expect any of you would notice the difference, so "leaving" wouldn't have any meaning. OneForLogic 18:48, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I missed all that fun, Catwatcher and I were too busy inserting gibberish and annoying Andy. The gibberish is still there and I'm not telling Jinx where it is. Генгис^{You have the right to be offended; and I have the right to offend you.} 19:00, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

What he actually said

Reading it, I feel that he is correct - we need to cut out the mission creep and actually start refuting pseudoscience. Stupid educated Hoover! 18:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

There's too much fanwank about ken and not enough non-CP stuff. There's some decent material on alt.med, but many important pseudoscience writers and concepts are stubs, and articles like poltergeist and séance don't even exist yet, it's ridiculous. Totnesmartin 19:04, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I certainly didn't read "more pseudoscience" as his main thrust, but it's a very good suggestion. However, what happens here will inevitably be whatever the majority of the members want to write about.--Bob^{bing up} 19:07, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps we should plan for a long-term boycott of CP(?) I feel like most of the WIGO:CP stuff is just them arguing with our socks anyway. I don't want anyone to be deprived of their daily lulz, but if we're interested in working toward a more noble pursuit, I'm all for it. Jorge 19:13, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree completely - but for many people fighting against CP is the primary reason for the existence of the site.--Bob^{bing up} 19:17, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

As was noted by some people in discussing the Google rankings of certain Conservapedia pages, Conservapedia essentially refutes itself, and has little need of us to do that job. ListenerX^TalkerX 19:37, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Seeing how little actually goes on at CP, we could just put up a 'MISSION ACCOMPLISHED' banner and move on. Jorge 19:40, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Ought we to move this to its own debate-page for further discussion? ListenerX^TalkerX 19:44, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, let's. It deserves thrashing out rather than filing away in an archive that nobody will ever read again. Totnesmartin 19:52, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Here it is. Did I do it right? Jorge 20:17, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't think he was trying to rail against mission creep. From what I could see, he was attempting to convince us that we need to move on. Yes, to things we already write about, but the fact remains that...

Right now, we fill a specific, very specific niche- bashing Conservapedia. But our 'food' source is gone, and we are starving. If we do not adapt, we will die. Do we want that? -- 20:26, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

What he said was that he wanted you all to hold him up on a pedastal. He wanted you all to regard his type of internet activity as somehow respectable, even admirable. The fact is he was one of those types that desired to be a 'prominant member' - in other words, he wanted to get some real life status from his internet activities. That is both sad and pathetic, and the moment you start thinking like that, the moment you start awarding people for wanking over their edit count and generally trying to get some real life satisfaction from an internet site is the moment you all fail. All websites have a kind of user who gets real life pleasure from artificial status on the internet, but when websites reward people for this anti-human tendency they just become pathetic magnets for horny adolescents. Its better he went. MarcusCicero 21:10, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Go to hell. -- 21:13, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I actually half agree that RA took this site, and his status within it, to seriously and I told him so before. That said MC is still a dick (but I appreciate bluntness) and RA will still be missed. Always sad to lose a member but at least he is still one of the Stone-Cutters. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 21:18, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Feck it, I merely said what half of you are thinking and reflecting the other half of you who are simply pale imitations of RA's editing ethos. Dicks sometimes have a point. MarcusCicero 21:30, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Sigh. I don't know why anyone expects to be constantly active. You need to take breaks. During the election cycle, I ignored RW. Yeah, I got out of the loop--probably will never be in the middle of it again--but the election was more interesting. And we do have real lives and responsibilities. Wikis will always be overrun by the passionate, but occasionally annoyingly obsessed types. Or, at least, that is who you will notice. If you can't get used to that, then find another hobby. (Also notice the "edited mercilessly or redistributed" notice and think about what it means.) Sterile^{walkie-talkie} 01:27, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

OMG how idiotic of everyone but me

15 minutes. It took 15 minutes for one of you idiots to notice this. Wow, well done. Teh Rashonal One

Well done. One million internet points. You really got us that time! What more do you want? Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member} 19:57, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey, I found it within a minute or two of coming back. people do have lives, you know. ;-) MOre importantly, I don't know about you all, but i simply don't check every single edit cause I'm not a baby sitter. That one I found, cause i knew about the news story, and was curious who added what - not cause i was doing my version of CP, and babysitting edits.--En attendant Godot_{"«Her intense and pure religiousness took the form of her having equal faith in the existence of another world and in the impossibility of comprehending it in terms of earthly life. V.Nabokov»} 20:00, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Teh Rashonal One celebrates some significant accomplishment or other.

Wooooo, yay, you managed to vandalise a small wiki... Woooooooo! Congratulations! Javasca₧ thinking of what to say next 20:02, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I would love to respond, but I am far to busy relentlessly wasting my diamond. Unless you want me to take my Xbox One and run it up your band, you'd to well to mature in a very opaque way, you dick.
grah 83.170.97.191

Enjoy your Warhol moment TRO, but 15 minutes is only a long time if you're holding your breath. Try it.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 20:16, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

idiot? I was doing something useful, TRO; what were you doing? Totnesmartin 20:23, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

My word, how exciting, NOT! Tit. (10/10 for factual, though. Teh Poop passage is teh passage for poop. _and marmite 20:26, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I, for one, am profoundly impressed.--Bob^{bing up} 20:34, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

What's the big deal? That edit looks like it fit right in... ħuman 21:36, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, "eeeww bumsex, but poo goes in there" has always been in the article, or a similar one, IIRC. It's under the "reasons that people don't like gays" or something. ^theist 12:49, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Cept (and this is really going into waters best left untouched, but oh well - if you ask almost any girl, she will tell you that guys don't have teh same aversions to the "poo hole" if the hole in question is a chick with a hot ass. Men can be such hypocrites where gays are concerned. --En attendant Godot_{"«Her intense and pure religiousness took the form of her having equal faith in the existence of another world and in the impossibility of comprehending it in terms of earthly life. V.Nabokov»} 22:11, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Highly recommended! ^{signed: anon (not me! [I deny all knowledge]) 22:18, 7 May 2009 (UTC)}

Of course, how many anti-gay campaigners do you think have big enough stashes of lesbian porn to keep the entire British Army from missing their girlfriends? ^theist 08:25, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

CP's biggest idiot 3?

It is getting around that time of year again where we presented the Conservapedia's Biggest Idiot awards, and I was wondering if it was worth the bother of having a round three, what with the limited number of editors still left. Mob, SPEAK! Javasca₧ my sig is my own opiate! 20:57, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Another walkover for Ed I think.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 20:59, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Bullshit. Jpatt pwns in stupidity. Neveruse513 20:59, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Something special for Jinx: being demoted pwned by TK & batting on like a twat. _and marmite

No way ED POOR, USER 188 WITH 1100 ARTICLES AND THE {{age}} TEMPLATE LOSES! The Emperor _{Kneel before Zod!} 00:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

We aure we are not doing it more frequently? Thieh 01:02, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion: expand to include aSK? (can't call it aSoK, keeping getting PJR/pointy-headed boss crossovers). Totnesmartin 07:59, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Everyone still left at CP should get a medal for staying power (and at least mild idiocy). That includes YOU, Bert Schlossberg!--

Kriss Akabusi^{AAAWOOOGAAAR!!1} 11:30, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't have a sock on CP, life is short. Mega 14:18, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Hooray for idiocy! I deserve it. Aboriginal Noise ^{with 4 M's and a silent Q} 14:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh my gods, they killed KhetyD! Those bastards... I have no socks left on CP now :( *sobs* I can haz medals anywai? --Krysg 17:34, 7 May 2009 (UTC).

(undent) I"m thinking that Jpatt has made some impressive strides in the past year, and Ed's crown is no longer safe. There should be different categories, though. Contest on? --SpinyNorman 19:38, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Chess

Who here at RW has a playchess account? Theemperor and I played a few games (He owned me thoroughly, way out of my league) and I was wondering who else wants to own me thoroughly. Or a chessgames.com account, perhaps? Clepper 00:14, 7 May 2009 (UTC) I'm user "Clepper" on playchess, too. On chessgames.com I go by "Pawnage".

Lift a Glass Me Hearties

I am now among the ranks of the unemployed. *HIC* Bring me RUM!!!! SirChuckB^{Call the FBI} 06:06, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Commiserations mate :(

Totnesmartin 08:01, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to hear that, still everything happens for a reason, so hopefully something good will come from this. --PsyGremlin_Whut? 08:12, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Take it it was involuntary. Teachers unemployed? You'd be welcomed & found a job in the UK (I think). _and marmite 08:17, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Seriously people!!!! The man didn't ask for commiserations or condolences or philosopholizing, he asked for RUM!!!! /gives RUM Clepper 08:40, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Ha! Friendship only goes so far. They'll get my rum when they prise my dead, cold fingers from round the neck o' the bottle. --PsyGremlin_Whut? 08:51, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Have some rum, dearly departed from the employed. Shit, that sucks. I hope you have good COBRA protection? (Assuming you are USAian, I can't keep track of all you weirdos anymore). ħuman 08:57, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to hear that. It's a big conspiracy to keep us all in little boxes with only one breathing hole. RUM, CUR! RUM! SJ ^Debaser 08:59, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Sadly, we hired a bartender with a curfew. How dumb was that? ħuman 09:25, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I can serve you, but I only absinthe and broken dreams on the side. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 09:47, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

(unindent) thanks everyone, but I'm not too worried about it... I was ready to get out of education anyway... And today I got a letter from the department of Veteran's affairs that says I'll be getting an interview... SirChuckB^{Call the FBI} 21:40, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm half looking at getting into it... my last day is in mid June and after a road trip that can only be undertaken when one does not worry about how long the vacation is ("The Prince of Whales hotel is booked for a week? Oh well, I'll stick around Calgary for a bit longer and play in Banff a bit... I hear Lake Moraine is nice"). After that I'm looking at one of: consulting, education (highschool computer teacher), university technology job (not this crazy, but more like this), biotech programmer, or some other technology job that doesn't have a suit and tie dress code. --Shagie 21:51, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I did a Canadian Rockies trip about 10 years ago or so ... It's awesome, hit up the Calgary Stampede, Lake Louise, and Glacier National Park. Totally worth it. Jrssr5 14:30, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Whatever happens, good luck. Flare^Talk 11:16, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Why?!

So I just read recently that Italy grants anyone of Italian descent citizenship. That would be super cool, because then I could work anywhere in the EU and not have to worry about crazy Visa requirements. Good news: I'm Italian. Bad news? My grandpa (dad's dad) was adopted. Because I'm not on speaking terms with my father, I have to find out other ways to find out more about my grandpa. It'd be really nice to have Italian citizenship. If anybody knows a way to find out more about him, I'd greatly appreciated it. His name is Raymond Lepper. The stupid family tree web sites always require a payment. ); ......yes, my last name is Lepper. Luckily I'll be 18 soon so I can change it. :D As a side note, I'm related to Bugsy Siegel: Great-great-uncle (Grandma's uncle). Don't cross me. ;P Clepper ^{is fallible} 10:32, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

You'd also be able to vote in Italian elections without ever having to go to Italy--they have constituencies for North America, Asia, Africa, etc. Hadn't heard about the odd citizenship law. --Yossie^{Spring in Fialta} 13:38, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

It does seem rather odd. There's no limit to how many generations it can go back, either. Also, technically any Italian-(insert other country)American is, according to Italian law, already a citizen of Italy. It's just a matter of paper work. This reminds me of someone making me a syspop without asking me... (*COUGH* TOAST *COUGH*) ;P :)

My friend's grandpa was born in Italy and he has the paperwork to prove it, the lucky bastard. I suspect my dad's dad's dad was born in Italy but there's no way I could prove it, seemingly. Does DNA testing for ancestry exist ?? I doubt it... :/ Clepper ^{is fallible} 14:12, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

They can do DNA tests to find out where you're from. My family did it and was able to trace us to Antrim County, Ireland. We knew family had come over from Dublin, but beyond that had hit a brick wall. Jrssr5 14:37, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, Ireland has a similar policy for citizenship, though it is capped at generations. Poking about... "The Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act of 1956 provides that certain persons born outside of Ireland may claim Irish citizenship by descent. Anyone born outside Ireland whose grandmother or grandfather, but not his or her parents, were born in Ireland may become an Irish citizen by registering in the Irish Foreign Births Register (FBR) at the Department of Foreign Affairs in Dublin or at the nearest Irish Embassy or Consular Office." (from about.com) More at wp:Irish_nationality_law#By_descent. --Shagie 17:59, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately my ancestry's become pretty muddled by this point. I'm either Scottish or Irish, latest evidence points towards Scottish. At any rate I know none of my grandparents were born outside of the U.S.; I even have some Cherokee Indian in me. Which would actually help a lot if I wanted to abuse it for scholarship purposes, even if I am only about 1/16. Being a mutt kinda sucks! ): Suffice to say there's been a few generations in the USA on both sides. Anybody know of any "Get Citizenship/Visa in EU Nation Quick!" schemes? I guess since my friend is technically an Italian citizen I could marry him. Of course, he's a he, and I'm a he, and I'm not attracted to he's, so that might not be the best idea. ;) I wonder if people actually do get married just for the advantages of dual-citizenship... conservatives like to go on about gays abusing the advantages of a married couple, seems equally reasonable to me that straight people could do the same. Clepper ^{is fallible} 18:49, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Does that mean you'll have to pay Italian taxes? --Gulik 18:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I always thought that every country had the policy of taxing whatever goes on in their country. So since I wouldn't own any property or be working in Italia, I don't think there's anything they could tax me on. By no means do I claim any knowledge of Italian law though. Anybody else know how that would work? Clepper ^{is fallible} 18:25, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Depends on the nature of the Taxing system. Hubby is supposed to file taxes each year in France that detail how much he made here, the land he owns here, and how much he was taxed here. The US supposedly wants to see the same thing. The US will not tax you on it, but it can change the level of taxes you pay here. --En attendant Godot_{"«Her intense and pure religiousness took the form of her having equal faith in the existence of another world and in the impossibility of comprehending it in terms of earthly life. V.Nabokov»} 18:59, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

What? I can get an Irish passport, despite never having lived in the ROI and only having been there a few times? Cool. Stupid educated Hoover! 20:37, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I can get dual citizenship. It's awesome. All I have to do is walk into the nearest UK consulate and tell them I want my passport. So I gets to be Americanz(fuck yeah) and Britishes(double fuck yeahs). And I only have to pay taxes in the country I live in, I don't know about living overseas though. Yorick 21:12, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Used by countries to qualify players for international sporting events. Zola Budd anyone? (& several Irish & Welsh soccer players). _and marmite 21:35, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I find it ironic that Toast, of all people, added the sports trivia to this thread. ħuman 22:00, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Heh! Anything to knock organised sport. When they make long distance walking, speleology & (not very high) rock climbing, sports, I'll take another look. _and marmite 22:07, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

My son has dual nationality (British father, Mercan mother) - the greatest asset? When we travel to the States he's in the short queue at both ends. However, I'm in the long queue on the way out and his mother is in the long queue on the way back so, as a family, we lose. Silver Sloth 08:41, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

ToP

I was looking at creating a Lebensraum article, noticed it was deleted and zipped over to Xena's talkpage to see why, then I went over to ask Theory of Practice if it was cool if I remade one, and find out HE'S GONE TOO??? Why's everyone leaving!? SJ ^Debaser 20:46, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Everyone isn't going; only a few people, & each for their own reasons. ToP hasn't explicitly stated his. Ŵêâŝêîôîď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 20:52, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

YoP left due to real life commitments. One can be sure he'll stroll on back at some stage. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 20:59, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Yak of Practise was a dick. No one cares that *he* left. Quit changing the subject, we're talking about TOP. User:Mei

Bit sad, though, that so many are leaving. -- 22:15, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

So many? Two or three, and they'll probably be back? Oh, and Xena is still here, under another name. ħuman 22:18, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm still here under three names. Totnesmartin 22:29, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I didn't think killing a single sock would create such controversy. Would you like me to bring him back? The Emperor _{Kneel before Zod!} 23:37, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, people, can we not call people a dick? Ad hom somewhere else. Yes, you may think it, but I don't think less of the person--I think less of you. I'm not saying to censor, but to be civil. Sterile^{walkie-talkie} 01:29, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I read that as a joke built off Ace's typo... ħuman 01:34, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

(EC) I would not term TOP a "d**k;" he just has a bit of a short fuse, is all. ListenerX^TalkerX 01:38, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually Mei was being funny., taking note of Ace's typo (YoP) - he wasn't badmouthing Top. _and marmite 01:53, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

My comment was on the page before I noticed what Human was pointing out. ListenerX^TalkerX 02:07, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

My bad. Long work days. Release. Sterile^{walkie-talkie} 02:00, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, isn't it about two people? We probably have that many editors "leave" daily, they just don't make a song-and-dance about it. ^theist 08:22, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Can my desysopping be reconsidered?

Maybe? -- 22:18, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

So I can vandal bin the rest of FD's socks? -- 22:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Of course it can. (whether anything changes - that's up to the mob) personally I'd sysop you. _and marmite 22:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

If I wasn't just off to bed I'd sysop you just for tonight to do this one job, but I'd prefer the same person to begin and end it. Also as Toast said, let's get a couple more opinions. Totnesmartin 22:27, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm down with resysopping, but behave thyself, mmkay? Aboriginal Noise ^{with 4 M's and a silent Q} 22:43, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't much care, so long as you stop behaving like your impulses are directives. --Kels 23:54, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

(is this the right place?) I would suggest waiting until such a time that he shows that he has the restraint from using sysop as personal amusement or that he knows when using sysop abilities aren't funny.[1] Until then, no. Cur, we're trying to keep you from growing up to be like Ed (go read about Ed getting desysoped on Wikipedia). --Shagie 00:40, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

My thoughts... close, but not quite yet. But you been behaving well in general lately, so you're on the right track. However, your stated reason is less than convincing - basically you want the power to pursue a vendetta, one that, based on observation, you'll probably screw up. ħuman 01:08, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Patience. Actions speak louder than asking words... Sterile^{walkie-talkie} 01:30, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm a nobody, but I would have voted for you if you'd have promptly filled my drink order for champagne in a glass slipper from two nights ago. But you probably don't like me anymore for telling you to go fuck yourself too often. User:Nutty Roux/sigtalk 02:31, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

It was a really bad idea to hire a bartender with a curfew. Shame, since it seemed he really liked the job. I wonder how Mr. and Mrs. CUR feel about us making their little boy get our drink orders? ħuman 04:43, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

DRINK!!! FUCKING DRINK! NOW! FUCK! Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 04:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

You remind me a little of this manga character my friend and I fangirl over a lot. Pretty little murderous thing who says FUCK frequently, and almost reflexively. We've speculated that he says it so often it's actually stopped having a lot of actual meaning, and it's said in the same tone as you'd ask for more jam. Therefore, our curse word has turned into JAM, and FUCK is now a rather pleasant word. --Kels 15:47, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Uh, hello? It's only been a week or two? You haven't exactly changed your spots in the past within that period of time, what reason do we have to believe you'd do so now? You claimed when this all blew up that you were leaving and not coming back for ooooh, a looong time, which turned out to be, oh, about four days. What's the problem with being a non-sysop anyway? What can you not do that you really need to do? I say no. DogP 15:38, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

This is what we were supposed to be agreeing here, before it got archived prematurely & dismissed as irrelevent. I agree with DogP - there are no shortage of other sysops around to do vandal-binning & anything else that needs doing. Ŵêâŝêîôîď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 18:10, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I would like to point out that if I slam someone and say 'Read Wikipedia,' that does not mean that Wikipedia agrees with what I am saying. Just want to point that out. -- 19:42, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Not again! I see no reason to make this user a sysop. I see no reason the polish the drama queen's ego by even talking about it. Can we agree that this question will not even be discussed again for at least the next six months?--Bob^{bing up} 19:53, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Ahem:

1. If sysopping if the same as being an editor here, then that would make me what? An IP adress? Yet I can think of no other wikis who have banned editors for telling them to read a wiki.
2. Citing something does not mean that they endorse what you are saying.
3. Jill Stanek, if reading this, is probably scratching her head wondering what all the fuss is about.
4. Note that sysopping has nothing to do with a reason- that's 'cratting. Note, however, that someone does not have to perform a specific function to be made a crat here.
5. I have never misused sysop powers. Not once.
6. Vandal-binning a vandal is standard practice, I see no reason why I shouldn't be allowed to make sure he won't be able to spam us.

-- 20:02, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Only one of those points has anything to do with blocking FD. Totnesmartin 20:11, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

So? We are supposed to vandal bin him. -- 20:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

But anyone can do that. Incidentally, you have abused your powers - remember that deleting spree you did? Totnesmartin 20:16, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

You've got a point there. But Human desysopped Pink and he wasn't decratted. -- 20:17, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

So you start by asking to do one job, but really you're appealing against your promotion. No will do, ask again after that summer break you were going to take. Totnesmartin 20:24, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, in light of your bitching about it and trying to lawyer your way around your promotion (which was generally supported by the mob), I'm gonna say no. I do not support you getting demoted at this time because frankly, you're not showing that you're any more mature than before. --Kels 20:36, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

What's the problem with lawyering? Where would we be without them? -- 20:43, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Happier. --Kels 20:46, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

It shows you haven't learned from past experience, but instead are liable to jump right in where you left off. Totnesmartin 20:50, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

The Mob Shall Be Herd!

• Oppose --Kels 20:52, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose Totnesmartin 20:53, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose ħuman 20:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose (If I've understood correctly what we're (again) voting about making CUR a sysop. And that this vote is against such a possibility.--Bob^{bing up} 22:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
• (In Gendo Ikari pose) Oppose--Nate River 23:40, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Don't make me bust a Kamina pose at you! --Kels 23:50, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

• Indifferent though catious about CUR being rearmed as it caused me to act like an asshole. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 20:55, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

• Endorse ^{— Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs} 20:56, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
• Endorse Don't screw it up. EddyP 21:05, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose demotion at this point. Ŵêâŝêîôîď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 23:56, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose demotion. DogP 04:37, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
• Frankly, my dear(s), I don't give a damn!, but make the little twonk stop being a little twonk. He's got a whole Wiki to play with (RWW) that no-one cares about, why doesn't he bugger off over there & stop annoying us? _and marmite 14:57, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Propose

That, if this goes against CUR, then it will not be discussed again for another six months.--Bob^{bing up} 22:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

• Agree--Bob^{bing up} 22:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
• Agree getting bored of CUR drama, he can play on RWW instead of here. Totnesmartin 22:16, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
• Agree with modification Six months seems a bit long, how's three sound? End of the summer, basically. --Kels 22:17, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

:*Agree with three months. Corry 22:31, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't really like setting a timescale. I'd just prefer that we leave it until someone other than CUR suggested demoting him again. Then we can discuss it again. Ŵêâŝêîôîď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 23:58, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

• Agree with leaving it open ended. ħuman 00:01, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm good with that. --Kels 00:09, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah. Let's not try to drive people away (even if it is CUR)--Nate River 00:21, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

• Agree (changing my vote) Corry 04:15, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

• Agree - with what Weasel said. I would have reacted differently if it hadn't been CUR himself asking for demotion. The ego, it burns. DogP 04:39, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Agree - I second Weaseloid. SJ ^Debaser 09:53, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

NO PERSONAL-EXPRESSION

Have you ever noticed those idiots who walk down the street wearing fucking AbErCrOmBe shirt or AeRoPoStLe shirt on? I do, Man, does that shit piss me off! Buying any main brand shirt is a CLEAR sign of Stupidity and obedience. Two things most people are.^{— Unsigned, by: 99.52.80.129 / talk / contribs}

true. i refuise to pay extra for clothing companies to use me as advertising space. Do we have an article on brand loyalty? Totnesmartin 22:40, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

There may be nothing I hate more. Groups of 4 or more guys with Abercrombie polo shirts, cargo shorts, backwards hats, and sandals, all looking IDENTICAL to one another. Show some expression, drones!! Aboriginal Noise ^{with 4 M's and a silent Q} 22:42, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I started drafting an article but realised it was off-mission & would always be a stub, so here's para1:

Pester power is the use of children by advertisers to increase sales. By causing the children to believe that, unless they are wearing such-and-such a brand of clothing or have a specific electronic device or consume one particular foodstuff, they are out of fashion and will be looked down on by their peers, kids are encouraged to pester their parents/carers/teachers to obtain the items.

_and marmite 22:54, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Its herd mentality, like Zebra. When groups of guys stand round wearing similar clothes its hard for the predator to tell where one ends and the other begins. I myself where fairly nice and expensive clothes but nothing with huge labels plastered all over the place. I cant think of anyting tackier. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 23:10, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Now Herd mentality is worthy of an article. _and marmite 23:48, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

The funny thing is, that inside these sub-groups of people who all "look the same", they all seem completely unique to one another. ħuman 01:11, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Do we have an article on advertising methods or something like that? ħuman 01:12, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Not so much the advertising as the tendency for people to follow their ingroup, be it "I'm a Conservative" or "I'm a Leftwinger" or even "I'm an RWian". _and marmite 01:40, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Even worse is the extreme sports clothing. Stuff like Quicksilver and Element. Trying to be a skate punk by wearing name-brands, are they rebelling or are they just going to fit in? (Granted, I wear those shirts all the time.) BE AN INDIVIDUAL AND UNITE!--Nate River 02:07, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

You can't avoid it in most pastimes. Even (say) hiking, you're wearing overtly branded boots, & weatherproofs 90% of the time. _and marmite 02:12, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Ace risingfrom his slumbers

I think the only piece of prominently branded apparel I own is an old Burton Snowboarding hoodie that I wear around the house when its cold. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 02:16, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Toast, buy Patagonia stuff and take the label off! &DUCK& Ace, I rather figured you to be the kind that wears a mod tailored Saville Row suit winter spring summer and fall with a perfectly tied double windsor, matching pocket square, and Gucci loafers. User:Nutty Roux/sigtalk 02:35, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Heh, funnily enough Nutty, I am wearing a white Saville Row shirt with $50.00 cufflinks and a dark navy, pure lambs wool pinstripe suit that I had fitted for me in Johannesburg right now, with a gray silk tie in a half windsor. hehehe. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 02:45, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

But enough about your pyjamas... --Kels 04:24, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

My PJ's are me in the raw....hoooo yes. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 04:37, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I want photos! :p Refugee^{talk page} 06:25, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Ace wakes to the world

So...

Right now I am watching that 1998 movie "Deep impact" (that one where a comet is coming on over to whack the earth silly), and I tuned in a bit late. I was stunned to discover that of all the actors they could have chosen, GOD is the President of the United States in that movie :D ĴαʊΆʃÇä₰ x Z k G t I C m K j

P w I R

C U c C D

01:29, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I like Deep Impact - I even own a copy. It has flaws, of course, but it's got a lot of good parts. God being POTUS is one, of course. ħuman 03:47, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

How times change. When I was a kid, God was George Burns. --Kels 04:26, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

He died and the new punk took over the job. ħuman 04:46, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I thought God was a young woman with long hair? --Shagie 06:00, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Or Angelina Jolie, if you're a fan of that other Seth MacFarlane thing. ^theist 08:16, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I remember some movie I watched on HBO once... It was awful, about a guy who died, but even though he wasn't a bad guy, he was disrespectful to women all his life so God sends him back to live as a women blah blah blah... The thing I found most interesting was that God wasn't physically depicted, instead, it was two voices, one male, one female, that kinda talked in turns... Just an interesting twist. SirChuckB^{Call the FBI} 08:24, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Then there was the Buddhist cat-thing from South Park. BTW Chuck, do you know the name of the movie?--Nate River 23:43, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

A little internet research has me ready to say was Switch with Jimmy Smits and Ellen Barkin. SirChuckB^{Call the FBI} 07:41, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Library

So what is everyone reading these days? The Stranger by Camus, 1984 Orwell, and The Prince Machiavelli. Yorick 04:55, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Information and how it applies to PJR, by some foreigner. Oh, yeah, Küpper. ħuman 05:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Two books, The Kraken Wakes by John Wydnam and Freakonomics by that guy whose name I dont remember. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 05:15, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

"Aujourd'hui maman est mort." what an opening. Me- I'm torturing myself with Discipline and Punish, Foucault. ^{— Unsigned, by: WaitingforGodot / talk / contribs}

Netherland by Joseph O'Connor and Sacred Causes by Michael Burleigh. DogP 06:37, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Re-reading Dirk Gentley's Holistic Detective Agency, Douglas Adams for the 5th time, after that probably going to re-read LOTR, Tolkien for the 15th or 16th time, then after that maybe I could re-read The Amber Spyglass, Phillip Pullman for the 10th time or so, or a huge book about music composition for the 3rd time. By the time I circle back around to Joseph Heller or George Orwell it'll be a few months from now and I can look at it from a different perspective. Re-reading books builds character! This message brought to you by Clepper ^{is fallible} 06:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

On the go @ the moment: Gravity's Rainbow, Catch 22 and Mona Lisa Overdrive. All re-reads, if I can't read a book again & again - it's not a very good book IMHO. _and marmite ^{Oh and this as well}

Otherland Vol 2 by Tad Williams, Making Money by Terry Pratchett & Inside the 3rd Reich by Albert Speer. --PsyGremlin_Whut? 07:08, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Making my way through the Ciaphas Cain novels. It's basically Blackadder in space, what more could you want? ^theist 08:07, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

<UnInDn>Maybe I'll try getting all the way through Magister Ludi, this time. I've read it like four times but have never finished. (Same with Catch 22). CЯacke® 08:15, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Don't unnerstand the Catch 22 there, Cracker. I think (truly!) it's the best book of the last century, of those I've read at least. I'm on something like my 10th or 11th copy, having worn out or loaned out the rest. _and marmite 11:43, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

God is not Great by Christopher Hitchins (for the first time), A Star Called Henry by Roddy Doyle and an Aussie author, Shane Moloney, and his "Murray Whelan" mystery series. I agree with Toast regards rereading books.RagTop^{Gone sailing} 08:17, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Two books, one serious and one silly. The serious one is Jesus Interrupted and the silly one is How to Fight a Conservative and Win. Both excellent books. SirChuckB^{Call the FBI} 08:24, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

(Undent)Richard Holmes - The Age Of Wonder and Jane Austen - Sense and Sensibility (re-read). I seem to be stuck in the 19th century at the moment. Silver Sloth 08:48, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

George Orwell's collected essays, letters and journalism - vol 4 and Totally Wired: Post-Punk Interviews and Overviews by Simon Reynolds. Totnesmartin 09:28, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

"live life to the full in Kirklees" 50+ Fucking sad, innit? LateralQuercus 12:55, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Fight Club by Chuck Palanhuik. Movie's probably better though. SJ ^Debaser 13:20, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Pastwatch: The Redemption of Christopher Columbus by Orson Scott Card. Awesome. Jrssr5 14:41, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Right now I'm reading possibly the best classic adaptation ever; Pride and Predjudice and Zombies. That's right, Jane Austen, with zombies. It's amazing. Z3ro^talk 14:51, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Force by Michael Mattesi. All about applying humanity to life drawing and making statements rather than just recording surface detail. Great, dynamic way of looking at the body by way of opposing forces and motion, gonna help me a lot over the summer. --Kels 15:49, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Well with all the fuss over at CP about Ayn Rand I picked up a copy of When Atlas Shrugged but tore a muscle in my fore-arm doing so (it still hurts after 2 weeks). Opening the pages I find that I'll need new reading glasses as well because the print is so tiny. So I'm reading Busty Asian Babes Vol. LXIX which has some excellent articles about gardening and watercolour painting. Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member} 15:55, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm re-reading the A Song of Ice and Fire series while waiting for the next one to be finished. ENorman 15:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Understanding Marijuana: A New Look at the Scientific Evidence by Mitch Earleywine. Sterile^{walkie-talkie} 01:41, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I finished Seven Deadly Scenarios the other week, and am now reading The 33 strategies of WAR. I will then commence with the rest of the Dune series. Oh, and before you ask, I read and analyzed Art of War at age 12, and finished hacking through Seven Military Classics at age 15. The Emperor _{Kneel before Zod!} 01:47, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

More Natural "Cures" Revealed, by Kevin Trudeau. No, really, I'm reading this piece of garbage. Mainly so I can rip the author a new one in an upcoming expansion of the RW article. This book takes the cake for BS assertions, it's even worse than Dianetics as if that were possible. Secret Squirrel 01:52, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Forgot to mention, I just got both volumes of Drawn To Life by the late Walt Stanchfield. I've been just nibbling at them, and I'll start reading through once I'm done with Force, but even a taste is enough to make my head 'asplode. This is the guy who taught the guys who made Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast and the other classics of that era, and these are the handouts he passed around in Disney Studios at the time. Seriously amazing stuff for an artist, sort of like an audiophile finding a pile of previously unreleased recordings of The Who, Hendrix, The Beatles, and The Stones from their respective primes. --Kels 02:03, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Just read Watchmen and am now reading Danse Macabre by Stephen King--Nate River 02:22, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I am currently working through all the Asimov I can find and trying to decide whether I should save my last Terry Pratchett or read it before I die of swine flu. Stupid educated Hoover! 07:34, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I have Dawkins' The Ancestor's Tale by my bed and Why People Believe Weird Things by Michael Shermer for my commuting read.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 09:48, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Questions on Torture

Moved to Debate:Torture

Has the Saloon Bar killed the Forums?

Header says it all. _and marmite 10:58, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I've always thought rigor mortis had set in long before the saloon opened. --PsyGremlin_Whut? 11:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I think the saloon bar disconnected life support on a comatose patient. _and marmite 11:36, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

How very liberal of it. Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member} 15:58, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

ĴάΛäšςǍ₰ current location: thereabouts the clammy iPod 16:11, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Here's what's pathetic. I have no idea what Forum you all are talking about. --En attendant Godot_{"«Her intense and pure religiousness took the form of her having equal faith in the existence of another world and in the impossibility of comprehending it in terms of earthly life. V.Nabokov»} 17:38, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Don't care of the forums. But let's not forget that there is a already dead very active IRC channel in freenode, called... #rationalwiki . Editor at CP^{Oh, Finland! Why?} 17:48, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Eh...forums? ^{— Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs} 18:15, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I went there once, but it looked pretty dead. Never went again. EddyP 18:27, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

It's currently more active. I once saw two people online. -- 22:36, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Feelin good today

I bought a new car yesterday; a new new car, and I must say, there are few feelings better than sitting in a brand new car, driving around with that toxic new car smell. It just makes everything else better for a little while. Z3ro^talk 17:31, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

That smell comes out of an aerosol can, you know. _and marmite 17:33, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I know, and it may cause cancer. But I tell you, it still feels good. Z3ro^talk 18:31, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I bought some butternut squash plants today. They'll go nicely in the raised bed. Totnesmartin 18:34, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I remember my first (and only) new car...'tis true that is one of the best feelings. Then, three years later, when you find that you probably can't afford it, enters buyer's remorse. Aboriginal Noise ^{with 4 M's and a silent Q} 18:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Feelin bad today

A server packed up, so had an exciting trip to the isle of dogs to go try and fix it. Unfortunately it is permanently fried, so now my friday and my whole weekend will be spent putting a new server together to put in the hands of the nice man from Fexdex on monday. Fucking computers. Why didn't I just buy a fucking pub instead? --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 20:03, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Wait, you work in IT? That is a shock. MarcusCicero 20:23, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I wear far too many hats. I think of myself as a software engineer, but I also have the fixing servers hat and the company director hat on occasion. I need more minions. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 20:26, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Minions are good. I have a few and they do my bidding. Or else they get the hose. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 20:32, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Is your bidding to have them put the lotion on their skin? --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 21:25, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Only if they are good. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 21:25, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Also feelin bad today

I was going to visit my brother in London today, but had to cancel because of illness. there goes tomorrow's recording session in Ealing bloody Studios. I am deeply miffed. Totnesmartin 20:31, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

In the immortal words of the man himself: I can't do nuttin' for you man, Flavor Flav got problems of his own. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 21:38, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

The ratio of bad to good fellins is taking a turn for the worse. We need a rationalwiki group hug, I think. Z3ro^talk 21:40, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

What about an orgy? I already have a stiffy so I am half way there. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 21:45, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

You now owe me £10,000 to have that image surgically removed from my brain. I'll invoice you. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 21:48, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Orgy? They're not bad, never listened to them much, though. --Kels 21:53, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Goings on in my backyard

Little old New Zealand may be far away for some but there is an interesting thing happening at the moment. This guy, some ex-soldier gun-nut, has been holed up for three days in his home after shooting a cop. They have even brought in the army, armoured vehicles etc but the guy aint moving. He is like a US far right survivalist sort. Deeply mistrustful of government etc etc. pretty damned actioned packed and I have family friends just around the corner. Word is he may have bobby trapped his house and its wired to blow.Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 00:26, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I can't recall the name of the guy in the US who got in a shootout with the FBI (maybe 10 years ago), supposedly his wife was shot on the front porch-the details escape me...anyone? Anyway, how good are Kiwi snipers, Ace? Jorge _{Legendary Creature-Human Ninja} 00:37, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Ruby ridge?Amin7b5 00:40, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Yup, Randy Weaver. Who needs kgb when there's y'all! Jorge _{Radix Malorum Est Superbia} 00:48, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

NZ snipers are pretty good, in fact the NZ Secret Service and SAS are considered some of the best in the world. This is a lot like the Ruby Ridge incident. Doesnt happen much around here. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 00:58, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

P.s He has just been found dead. Not bad though - 3 days, one man, 100 cops. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 00:59, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Didn't the RL Aussie on which the Crocodile Dundee character was supposedly based on get into a similar standoff/shootout several years back? Secret Squirrel 01:47, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

For shame

Apparently this will be my 40,002nd edit. Kan I haz life nao pleez? ħuman 01:12, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I guess the orgy wasn't good for you either? Jorge _{noes teh maths} 01:25, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Not until you hit 100,000. The Emperor _{Kneel before Zod!} 01:31, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Human - have you thought of going outside to smell the flowers now and again? Seriously, you do edit a bit much - is that wise? Do you ever wonder if it affects the speaker biz? That said, we love you, and I personally really appreciate the labour of love you've made this place, despite the disagreements we occasionally have. Without you, RW would be more crap in many ways. So thanks. That is all. DogP 05:01, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

The lilac is stinking up all of New England right now ;) My crabapple is a pretty pink. And tonight's thunderstorm made me keep lifting my hand off the mouse (need to go wireless!) The pear is flowering, as is the bleeding heart. Not sure how it might affect the biz, of course, although the fucked up economy & news don't help much. And thanks, very much, for the kind words. PS, right now the History Channel is running some crappy woo "aliens or something" built the pyramids show, even featuring some idiot from "Coast to Coast AM" that I learnded about from teh Squirrel. I can't take it anymore! ħuman 05:16, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

There are few things in the world worse than the History Channel. I just hate it when people make subtle claims to intelligence by claiming "I don't like TV, I only watch documentaries on the History Channel". "Oh, you mean dreadfully written booming voiceovers about something-or-other the Nazi's did, randomly attached to free archival footage of Nazis doing something completely different in a different location, with sound effects added and lots and lots of advertisements for Get-Rich-Quick schemes?" History Channel - GAH! DogP 16:09, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Around here, people call it The Hitler Channel for just that reason. Give me things blowing up for SCIENCE! on the Discovery channel any day. --Gulik 21:11, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I CAN'T WAIT

I can't wait. I can't wait til' Religion destroys itself, til' Florida is completely covered in water, til' the air is no longer fit to breathe and we'd all have to live under the ground. I can't wait til' Government and authority bit the last dust, til' the stock Market completely turns to shit and falls 2,000 points in three weeks, til' Music becomes so bad; no one listens to it any more, til' children are so goddamn dumb they're parents stuff them in already crowded Orphanages. And the Orphanages become to crowded and they'll have to start dumping the hopeless children in the contaminated, toxic-filled, smelly river. I can't wait til' all the "hopes" and "dreams" of all the Bigots and powerful and rich come crashing down, til' all hope is gone, and with it; the human-race. I can't wait til' Society destroys itself, and all animals can live in peace without dreaded and humiliating man.^{— Unsigned, by: 99.52.80.129 / talk / contribs}

Why not come right out and say what you mean? _and marmite 14:25, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

BTW, 'til being an abbreviation of until, the apostrophe goeth at the front. _and marmite 14:26, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Come on, tell us how you really feel. Personally, I can't wait 'til they come out with the Ender's Game movie! Jorge _{Critical Hit!} 14:42, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

^{Enders game are krapp} _and marmite 14:50, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Till is a perfectly decent English word that means the same as until, so til' is not necessarily an abbreviation of until it may just be a misspelling. Either way it is wrong. Avovado's anyone? Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member} 15:28, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Here. Oh, and I'm just going to come out and say it: BoN, you're crazy. Sure, it might be nice if animals could live in peace, but we'll affect them long after we're gone. Instead, maybe we should learn to get along with them, eh? -- 15:31, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I just saw the cutest baby goat yesterday. It was black and brown and was walking around 'bahhhing' a whole bunch. Z3ro^talk 15:33, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Heh! Baby ducks have begun to appear on t'canal. fluffy _and marmite 15:36, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Nice weather for ducks here, too. And I've gotta go buy newsprint in that, *sigh*. --Kels 15:42, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Fluffy? No, TASTY. Amin7b5 15:52, 9 May 2009 (UTC) Also "all animals can live in peace..." If all animals could live in peace, then why were my cats trying to kill each other this morning? 15:54, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

(u)Point of order Z3ro, sheep baa, goats maa.Teh Chambers is always right. There were a load of (babyless) ducks behaving very unpeacefully in Sainsbury's car park at 10pm yesterday. I don't trust their faux smiley faces. LateralQuercus 02:15, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Thoughtful article on female sexuality by Meghan McCain

This kid is smart. Not that I agree with her 100%, of course, but the GOP needs more women speaking like this about women's issues and fewer men (...and losers like Sarah Palin) pontificating on the subject. Amin7b5 21:25, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Why the "h"? Why? Stupid educated Hoover! 17:16, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

No, her name has got the "h" in it. I was wondering why. Stupid educated Hoover! 17:20, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Because John is a big original Star Wars fan. --Kels 17:28, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Caudal fins

What's the difference between Amin7b5 and Adim7? Clepper ^{is fallible} 23:42, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Amin7b5=A,C,Eb,G. Adim7=A,C,Eb,Gb. min7b5 chords are sometimes called "half diminished": they tend to be used as the ii chord in a minor ii-V7-i progression, usually leading into some sort of altered dominant chord. Amin7b5 00:07, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I was right! Prize pleez? ħuman 01:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

/givePrize Oh ah, I've been playing half-diminished chords this whole time and not realizing they were the same thing as a min7b5. Thanks for the info! I'm gonna be playing guitar for my jazz choir next year and I'm pretty lame when it comes to theory. :/ Clepper ^{is fallible} 01:20, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Theory was what let me cheat my way into appearing as if I could play... Music = math + manual dexterity! ħuman 03:04, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I've become very interested in how the mathematical formulas of music can play on our emotions. Wikipedia has some interesting stuff at Music Cognition if you read the See Also link as well. Has anyone heard of a computer program that creates music on its own? I've seen tons of programs where you choose the key, choose the progression, specify any specific scales you want it to work with and the tempo and let it do the rest. So there must be programs that can do all of the choosing for you, somewhere, no? I write a lot of music on the computer, so I guess my formula is Music = Math. ;) Clepper ^{is fallible} 04:22, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Do you mean generative music? Brian Eno was on about it in the 90's but the only things I've found all use General MIDI, the horriblest atrocity to afflict music ever - the music of ringtones and new age websites. the concept is interesting though. Totnesmartin 08:18, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

And why is this section named after a fish's body part when it's about music? Totnesmartin 08:18, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

"Sounds like"... sorry, I do too many cryptic puzzles. Anyway, what's the problem? ħuman 08:27, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

"Sounds like"...co-dolphins? --Kels 18:34, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Caudal = chordal, and fins are fives... ħuman 03:35, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

So recently I've been struggling to learn a Chopin prelude (specificallythis one) on my ancient piano. Any suggestions from someone who (apparently) is a piano master? The Emperor _{Kneel before Zod!} 16:20, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Hit it with a hammer! Stupid educated Hoover! 20:16, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

"On the 73rd day I shall rest."

Any fundies over there said anything about blasphemy for this yet? _and marmite 08:11, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Um? ħuman 08:28, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Obama: "I shall complete the next 100 days in 72 days, On the 73rd day I shall rest" (approx paraphrase). Reminiscent of "On the seventh day he rested" _and marmite 08:32, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I was struck with exactly the same thought when I saw the clip on BBC News24. Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member} 09:21, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Me too - I'm just waiting for the vitriol - "Obama compares self to God". Though it might not work for them, because they tend to have a very literal interpretation of what he says - after all, when he said "when people talk about my Muslim faith", it was of course interpreted as "I am a Muslim". Likewise "the bomb that fell on Pearl Harbour" meant just one bomb. So their tiny brains may be confused by the number of days not being seven. DogP 16:16, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Just BTW, doesn't a smile on Obama look good? That skin colour's doing him no harm at all. _and marmite 17:27, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Lightly toasted? Генгис^{Our ignorance is God; what we know is science.} 18:56, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Conflict Resolution System

For the RationalWiki community, I, Javascap, hereby propose this system as our official conflict resolution system. Enjoy. ĵ₳¥ášÇ♠ʘ do do da de do da de 17:40, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

You forgot the "Blame CUR" option. ENorman 18:16, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it's very important. There needs to be a 'Is CUR involved?' and if yes 'Blame him' which leads to 'There is no problem.' -- 18:21, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

[Are you CUR]→[yes]→[STFU] _and marmite 19:07, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

A CRC for when CUR is involved. ĴάΛäšςǍ₰ No comment 19:38, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I can imagine this side-by-side with the "conflict resolution" (or lack of one) of Conservapedia... ^theist 10:42, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

You mean [Is there a problem]→[perhaps, who cares, ban user]→[no problem]? ħuman 19:17, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Atheism Tapes

Anyone know of a BBC documentary called "the Atheism tapes?" I'm downloading the first, right now. Curious about it. eztv--En attendant Godot_{"«Her intense and pure religiousness took the form of her having equal faith in the existence of another world and in the impossibility of comprehending it in terms of earthly life. V.Nabokov»} 23:54, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, I know about it now :). I didn't know the BBC would dare do something so heretical. ^theist 13:59, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I havn't watched it yet, the torrent wasn't well seeded so it took forever to DL. I'll let people know if it's worth finding-- for all i know, they could be de-bunking atheism ;-).--En attendant Godot_{"«Her intense and pure religiousness took the form of her having equal faith in the existence of another world and in the impossibility of comprehending it in terms of earthly life. V.Nabokov»} 14:24, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't look like it according to the wikipedia entry on the series. ^theist 15:34, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I must have missed that series. I well remember the previous one Atheism: A Rough History of Disbelief and I see that the one you mention is excess material from that. The tragedy is that we get a few episodes of atheism and then it's back to the saccharine pap and baby poop of mainstream religion.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 18:41, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I saw the History of Disbelief on KQED out here. I also mentioned it back some time ago, that includes a link to the videos. --Shagie 22:52, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Apparently, these are many of the interviews that created "history of disbelif" (which i've not seen) in full in some cases, and just "more indepth" in others. The author / creator of the show "History of Disbelif" said he was always saddened that so much quality material lay on the cutting room floor." I have to see if i can find a link to the first one.--En attendant Godot_{"«Her intense and pure religiousness took the form of her having equal faith in the existence of another world and in the impossibility of comprehending it in terms of earthly life. V.Nabokov»} 23:14, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Some sort of interesting what-the-fuckery

I was browsing the internet, as you do, and came across this. It seems to have absolutely everything in it! Some highlights:

• Capitalising "Truth".
• Masonic Dogs!
• Levels that you can progress through.
• DNA wave-form what?
• Some sham quantum physics added in for good measure.
• Arse-licking www.nwowatcher.com.
• Mentioning David Icke without the word "nutjob".
• And finishing with a anti-capitalist rant and "the media controls everything" conspiracy that seems to have bugger all to do with the article.

And I'm still not 100% sure what they're even talking about. Could be worth looking into The Book of THoTH site a little more too. ^theist 13:57, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh dear.... No.3 is interesting, it makes me despair as to what the "reasons not worth mentioning" may have been. ^theist 14:19, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

That site is full of win fail. Z3ro^talk 14:40, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

"Now, here's where things get strange and fall off track." I hate to break it to you, but that happened waaaay before that. --Kels 15:20, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Under "Conscious Effects on Reality", I'm kinda tickled by the idea that the author runs around mentally manipulating people and goes to play X-Box. --PsyGremlin_Whut? 15:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, but he can manipulate the xbox too. Man, if only I had that power. Z3ro^talk 15:29, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Hit it with a hammer! Stupid educated Hoover! 19:04, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Interesting video

Here. Starts off slow but gets better. EddyP 17:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

By "NonStampCollector", LOL. His ID one is also amusing.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 18:55, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

RWW

I am making a public call to assistance for the project. What I would most like is someone who is of the old guard and can expand appallingly short articles like Human's. Stupid educated Hoover! 18:57, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I cannot help you with that (or much of anything, for that matter), but might I recommend getting the WIGO:RW off the ground, preferably on or linked to the front page. Once that is rolling, I think you will have all the help you need. Z3ro^talk 19:04, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but there are several articles which should be expanded. Stupid educated Hoover! 19:32, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

You need to think bigger picture; the articles will be expanded once the site has more traffic and more people visit. WIGO:RW will bring those people (probably). Z3ro^talk 19:48, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Is it kosher to steal the WP SCOTUSCase template? I'll expand the Supreme Court decisions pages and write some that are redlinked, but we need a real format for them as well as an easy way to templaticize basic info. User:Nutty Roux/sigtalk 21:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

He's not talking about here on RW, he's talking about some fleabag outfit that "reports" on us. ħuman 22:10, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Human's articles aren't appallingly short---they are the seed crystal from which all good accretes.-- -PalMD ^{--Take two aspirin and call someone else} 22:15, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Again, I think PH is referring to the article on me at rationalwikiwiki. But thanks, Doc ;) We were just talking about you and goats on my talk page this weekend... ħuman 22:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Content Q

Hey, I wanna do a page on ScienceBlogs because, well, i just wanna. Does that horrid level of vanity bother anyone?-- -PalMD ^{--Take two aspirin and call someone else} 22:23, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

We don't already have one? It might be sort of covered at the RW:blogroll already? No harm it from what I can see... ħuman 22:53, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Star Trek

It was good. Very, very good. Anyone else saw it? -- 23:10, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

And why is it ECing when I add a new section? -- 23:10, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Spoiler: Spock kills Dumbledore. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 23:11, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

No no no, Spock kills Snape, but you have to understand that he does it under pressure from that ship from Trinity, and the myrder is done quickly with a mysterious philanthropist. ĴαʊΆʃÇä₰ watches contented heretics throw 23:59, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Then it turns out they're both Tyler Durden. Stupid educated Hoover! 18:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I had that same problem with a new section being EC'ed. Is there something odd going on with the wiki today? --Kels 00:03, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm watching it tonight at work. I shalt let thou know mine opinions tomorrow! Also, he's NOT Tyler Durden. He's also not his job, nor how much money he has in the back. Neither is he his fucking khakis. SJ ^Debaser 08:45, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

11 May

Just realised the date. RIP Douglas. Totnesmartin 18:43, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

<flashmp3>http://www.nevilley.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/trumpet/lp.mp3</flashmp3> {{User:Phantom Hoover/sig0}} 18:52, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so." Генгис^unbelieving 19:02, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

You know, as a result of our convo above about HH'sGTTG, I rented the most recent one last week, the one with MosDef. Apologies to all Douglas fans, but I found his writing had really, really dated horribly, and it was nowhere near as funny as it had once been, and it reeked of a certain style of Brit clever-clever-annoying-student writing, "Oooh, aren't I so clever with my clever (student) witticisms". I dunno, I used to be a fan, but I think I'm not any more. I couldn't stomach it, or Stephen Fry's by-now-massively-overdone Rent-A-Toff Accent, and turned it off after 50 mins, which isn't something I do often. Nevertheless, Mr.Adam's was a good bloke, so RIP to him. Perhaps 8 glasses of water might help him? DogP 19:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stupid educated Hoover! 19:17, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

BURN THE HERETIC!!!!!!!!!! Totnesmartin 19:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I dunno, the movie was pretty godawful. --Kels 05:09, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

The movie was mediocre, which is the worst thing it could have been. (Stephen Fry is awesome. That is all.) --Yossie^{Spring in Fialta} 05:58, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

The movie was average yes - but what about the radio series? Totnesmartin 07:13, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Where to we sign up for the heretic burning? Movie was ok. Radio show excellent. Original BBC series also a good thing ^(TM) - especially given how they recreated the special effects on a BBC budget. RIP Douglas. --PsyGremlin_Whut? 08:06, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Evolving snails

Not really sure what to do with this, don't go on the site often enough, but very interesting anyways --Smg87 22:08, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it is interesting, thanks. ħuman 04:15, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

total non sequitur

How come lambs are so cute AND so tasty?--En attendant Godot_{"«Her intense and pure religiousness took the form of her having equal faith in the existence of another world and in the impossibility of comprehending it in terms of earthly life. V.Nabokov»} 19:22, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I once went to outer space, but they had no marshmellows, so I came back. ĴαʊΆʃÇä₰ Over 2700 edits! Thats over 238! 19:24, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

My suspension bridge has turtles but it does not have blue pyjamas.--Bob^{bing up} 20:46, 10 May 2009 (UTC)--Bob^{bing up} 20:46, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I think Obama has a chance in 2012. Stupid educated Hoover! 20:50, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

A snake wears spats because it doesn't have any armpits. --Kels 20:51, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

A penguin googles when rolled by a adhering fork. Stupid educated Hoover! 20:57, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Shoes first, then pants. Never forget. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 21:05, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Is that off or on? What if you're not wearing pants? _and marmite 00:11, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Have you ever noticed that the old Fred Astair number - Top Hat, White Tie and Tails never mentions anythign below the waist. Does he wear pants? Silver Sloth 09:58, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

"Tails" is short for "Tail suit" i.e. jacket & trousers (pants) _and marmite 10:08, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Wait, are you using "pants" in the British or American sense? Stupid educated Hoover! 21:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

"If the square of a hypotenuse equals the sum of the square on the other two sides, why is a mouse when it spins? Never did know the answer to that one." --Kels 21:11, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

The higher the fewer, of course! Totnesmartin 21:25, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but what's the difference between a crocodile? --Just passing by 21:38, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

A watermelon is bigger than a Grapefruit, but you can't surf in the mountains. SirChuckB^{Call the FBI} 22:51, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

What's the weight of thirty-eight Brazilian anacondas? --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 23:07, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Democracy! Whiskey! Romania! --Kels 23:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Cup cakes! Crumbly candy bars! Unlimited rice pudding! Totnesmartin 08:40, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Gravid tomatoes spiralling endlessly into morbidity. _and marmite 08:45, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

If Sam's spayed, how will we have any puppies? --Yossie^{Spring in Fialta} 09:43, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

also, a tin teardrop. Totnesmartin 09:55, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Where's the car? SJ ^Debaser 13:48, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Irrational dieters and the "pure water" obsession rant

I wanted to make a page on the "woo" somewhere about this, but not even sure how. So, I use spark's people for tracking my diet, and the biggest thing there is this idea that you need 8 cups of WATER in its pure form which just drives me batty. "Can I count juice as my water?" re from the crowd:NONONO. "What about decaf coffee" "NONONO". Ok, idiots, here's the thing. The water you drink goes into your tummy where it mixes with all the other foodstuffs you have eaten in the last hour or so. Now, unless you are going to claim that we cannot count water we took with our vitiman pills, and water we drank while eating breakfast, and water we ate while nibbling chocolate, then it is fully irrational to say it must be just "water", and not water +fruit (juice), or water + chocolate (caffeinated drink), or water + meal (ground up protein drink). Whether it's a bottle you buy at the store of "pure" water, or soup, IT ALL ENDS UP THE SAME IN YOUR TUMMY FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE. ok, rant over. sorry.--En attendant Godot_{"«Her intense and pure religiousness took the form of her having equal faith in the existence of another world and in the impossibility of comprehending it in terms of earthly life. V.Nabokov»} 18:13, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

You should do that one, I've even been told it by a dietician. It comes from a US Navy nutrition guide in the 1940s, and hasn't really gone away. The number 8 always recurs, whether it's cups, glasses or even litres! (that's 14 pints). Actually I'm pretty sure our Mr McWicked can get through 14 pints though...

Not of water. Pure ethanol, perhaps. Stupid educated Hoover! 19:18, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

An ex-GF of my brother-in-law (US) came to stay with him and his wife and offered to bake some bread as she'd been on a French cookery course (somewhere in the US). Of course the only water she could use had to be Evian, that's what she was taught. Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member} 19:13, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

You know, it's not that I don't think you don't need the liquid, nor that i don't get the benfits that liquid have for digestion, feeling "full" on a diet, and rehydration -- it's the idea that you cannot put anything at all into the water (quote: a slice of lemon is ok. but nothing else), even though the second it hits the tummy it mixes with all the other foods. I mean, unless i don't understand science, I'm not sure why water that mixes with food at point T+1minute is any different than water at point T, and food at point T premixed. --En attendant Godot_{"«Her intense and pure religiousness took the form of her having equal faith in the existence of another world and in the impossibility of comprehending it in terms of earthly life. V.Nabokov»} 19:24, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Unless it's a homeopathic diet, then the water remembers what you mixed it with, and it's not really water anymore. Z3ro^talk 19:30, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Don't start me on irrational dieting. A very good friend of mine is an aficionado, and will only drink distilled water. Also she has decided, without going to a doctor, and in fact in disagreement with a professional dietician who says there's nothing wrong with her, that she's basically allergic to everything and eats the most absurdly complex (and expensive) diet. She has independently decided she's a celiac, and also that she has Candida (which, as far as I can see, is the ne plus ultra for all hypochondriacs). She completely trusts anything she reads on the interweb about her various 'complaints' (all of which, to my own eyes, are utterly nonexistant, and I know her very well indeed), but utterly distrusts anyone she's ever met who's actually been professionally trained in the the sciences of in the field. If someone without a college education has written a book about digestion, she'll declare it infinitely superior than any doctor's book. If they're Asian, better yet, as apparently all Western medicine is shit. She's a good friend, but it's hard to listen to her sometimes, the illogical drivel that pours out of her brain - we fell out over it once, but it wasn't worth it in the long run, we get along in too many other ways. I just do my best to avoid the topic, and that keeps us good. DogP 19:32, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

(UI)8 cups sounds about right - for the military. That's "allowing" 2 quarts per person per day, which is the requirement for hard working military in adverse conditions. Will some get mixed with Tang? Made into coffee? Used to rehydrate soup? Of course it will. One thing I have long wondered is how much "less" water is in various things we drink, due to their other ingredients "requiring" some of the water to process/excrete them - if it's even an issue. Like, say if it "takes" 1 oz of water to get the caffiene (etc.) in an 8 oz cup of coffee out of your body, then coffee would only score 87.5%. But, yeah, the "pure" water nuts are, well, nuts. ħuman 21:31, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

The only actual science in this is that of course tea and coffee are diuretics, so consuming them makes you pee more, thereby meaning a net fluid loss to your body. That said, if you drank tea all day, you're NOT going to die of dehydration. DogP 21:51, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

they're only mildly diuretic - I drink tea and coffee all day but i'm not dehydrated. Try dandelion tea for a real diuretic. Totnesmartin 21:55, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but tea or water, when you drink 2 quarts or so a day (as I do. never sure if i'm diabetic, it's the altitude and dryness of Colorado, or I'm just inlove with drinking) you go pee all teh damn time. ;-) oh, i know why it's part of a good weight loss plan... you have to run every 15 minutes to the potty! (by the way, this is NOT woo, but feels like it shoudl be. Sometimes, you have to eat MORE to lose weight, cause your body goes into "starvation mode" and tries to conserve cals by not burning off excess. nasty game, dieting)--En attendant Godot_{"«Her intense and pure religiousness took the form of her having equal faith in the existence of another world and in the impossibility of comprehending it in terms of earthly life. V.Nabokov»} 21:58, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh dear, I was going to write something taking the piss, but I see I don't have to. 82.23.209.253 22:11, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Of course, our natural bodily fluids can only be replenished by distilled water or rainwater, free from the international communist conspiracy of fluoridation. Guess what year fluoridation began? That's right, 1945. The same year that the Red Army advanced in Europe.Klapaucius^{Esteemed Constructor} 22:18, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh sure, the international communist conspiracy is all about sapping & impurifying all of our precious bodily fluids. Ŵêâŝêîôîď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 23:15, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

ALL this stuff about mandatory daily water intake is idiotic. If you need to drink water, you will feel thirsty. If you're not thirsty, you don't need to drink anything. Honestly, when I took my exams, everyone else in the hall was sucking on a bottle of water like a baby's dummy, as if you'd expire from dehydration just because you'd gone three hours without a sip. It's ludicrous, and must mean B!G BUCK$ for the bottled water companies.--

Kriss Akabusi^{AAAWOOOGAAAR!!1} 11:50, 12 May 2009 (UTC) PS I'm not actually Kriss Akabusi, so don't take this advice as coming from a top sportsman and motivational speaker. But still!

Even so, actual pure water will probably kill you. The number of times I've been hungover in a lab and so tempted to suck on a wash-bottle of distilled and deionised water... It's not good for you. ^theist 15:41, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

And, for the terminally idle, our local M & S stocks (as I suppose do the others) "Ice cubes made from Irish water" in plastic bags. _and marmite 15:51, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

CP: Cult?

Ran across a "Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups" checklist yesterday. Filling it out with CP in mind: check, check, hmm...debilitating work routines...check, check, check, check, check, check, check, check, check, money?...nope, check, check, and check. Huh--definately a cult, by my count.--WJThomas 11:24, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Somebody did a similar analysis a while back, but CP actually failed the cult test. I think one of the main reasons was that whilst a cult tries to prevent members fro leaving, CP seems to discourage people from joining.--PsyGremlin_Whut? 11:37, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Something like that. I do remember it being mentioned but CP did fail on some of the important points. It doesn't say "cut your ties with family and join conservapedia" for example, although it does do the whole Messiah-Schlafly thing occaisionally. ^theist 13:46, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Not a cult, as few things on the internet are truly a cult (except maybe WoW). If CP were started in real life with the people currently involved, it probably would qualify as a cult. Z3ro^talk 14:43, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Is it an eCult? ...are we an eCult!? ^{— Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs} 15:03, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Of course not, now drink this nice cup of KoolFlavorAid I made specially for you. --PsyGremlin_Whut? 16:59, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I would venture that the "real world" part of CP (the homskollars, the "classes", etc.) are a manifestation of cult-like behavior - YEC loons - but the actual "cults" involved might be spread across several different churches. Now, if the HSers are all in one congregation, and Andy "teaches" virtually all the kids in that congregation, there might be a case to be made. Money? Andy does charge for his "classes"... ħuman 19:34, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

He charges for his work, therefore it's a cult? Totnesmartin 20:35, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

You call that work? You sir are more generous than I. Scammer charge too, as do cult leaders (scientology, anyone?). The who-man makes a good point. Z3ro^talk 20:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Of course, when he's arguing with the sane, he tends to claim he has "volunteered" zillions of hours getting zillions of teenagers into zillions of great colleges of their first choice. ħuman 22:14, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

To be fair, under this qualification RW could indeed be also considered a cult. 'Denial' would certainly be foremost for that criteria :) MarcusCicero 11:40, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Sky TV is a cult. I called to cancel my subscription because I built a media center PC with a freeview card, and it was similar to trying to leave Scientology. It took me close to 30 minutes to convince the woman on the phone that I really REALLY did want to cancel, and that I wasn't interested in 3 months free, and then after I had finally cancelled, the phonecalls started. They hand your details to a telespamming company in that scotland who called me almost every other day. They continued calling despite me making threats to report them to various watchdogs and ombudsmen. They kept calling after I had officially requested they remove my details from their system. The only thing that made them stop was when we moved house and changed number. </AntiSkyRant> Crundy 16:02, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

A bit o' halp from the mob

So my girlfriend is currently failing Understanding Evolution, and needs to get a good grade on the final exam. I am one of the top 10 students in the class, and the final is today, and she wants to cheat off my exam so she can pass the class. I, personally, am extremly uncomfortable letting her cheat off my test, but I don't know how to nicely tell her that I don't want her to do so (even though that would mean she definitally will fail the exam). HALP! ĴαʊΆʃÇä₰ things that make you go "hm" 17:41, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

As someone who had many people try cheating off of, there is no easy way to say no. You just do it and hope she's not resentful, sadly. And you didn't help her learn during class? For shame. Z3ro^talk 17:46, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

You are so fucked.

There is only one logical way to go about this: You need to assess the probabilities of catastrophic failure in each case (letting her cheat & getting fucked vs. not letter her cheat & not getting fucked</pun>) and then multiply by the cost of the associated failure.

Obviously, not letting her cheat is the answer (which I think you've already decided on. ^{— Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs} 17:47, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

(EC) You could, of course, lecture her about how cheating is a highly dishonorable thing to do, and how if she does it she shall have obtained her diploma under false pretenses. You should probably frame it in terms of "Do you really want to do this?", which is the only way you could probably get out of this unscathed. ListenerX^TalkerX 17:49, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Sadly, science is not really her forté. I did try helping her learn, we went over old midterms, studied (actually studied the material, mind you...) and everything else, but she just does not understand the material, and her grade in Understanding Evolution is showing it. ĴάΛäšςǍ₰ luminous philosophers sacrifice me... 17:50, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I might try asking her to make wild assurances upon your help in cheating. Bargaining for anal sex is usually a sure-fire way to get your girlfriend to stop asking for something. And it's probably going to turn out win-win. ^{— Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs} 17:55, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

so... she's failing the class, and on the final day she turns in a winning paper that bears similarities to the work of her boyfriend. How long d'you think it'd take the tutor to notice? Perhaps you could ask her to ponder that. But yeah, tough call mate :( Totnesmartin 17:59, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I am going to take a wild guess and posit that this exam is of the multiple-choice variety. Am I correct? ListenerX^TalkerX 18:02, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Depending on the format, it can be surprisingly easy. Once I took a test for someone in a class of over 100. I wasn't even enrolled in it. Just sat there, took the test, she put her name on it and turned it in. Of course, I got something worth-while out of the deal and a flat out refusal to do take the test would have been problematic. ^{— Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs} 18:06, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I would say that this is a valuable insight into the mind of your girlfriend. Do you really want to date a known cheater? And why can't she understand evolution? Either she's a dumb <haircolour>, she isn't interested in the first place or she doesn't believe in it. Not everyone is good at everything, would it really hurt her if she failed? If you've tried to tutor her in the past then you've done your bit but if you got caught it could ruin both of you. Генгис^evolving 19:11, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, the exam is over, and I think that it went over well. She pulled me to the side before class and told me that she decided she did not want to cheat, and would perfer to take a different science course next semester, so... potential explosion averted. As for myself, the exam went great, 110 questions, 1.25 hours, and only three questions I was unsure of, so barring stupid mistakes, I got a ~90 on my exam. I don't know how she did.

So, I suppose I want to thank y'all for your responses to this question, it was not as tough as I thought it would be to resolve. ĴαʊΆʃÇä₰ no fate but what we make 19:32, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Make sure to tell her you would have done it if she really, really wanted you to. Because you love her more than your academic integrity or something. Booya. ^{— Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs} 19:37, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Neveruse FTW! Z3ro^talk 19:38, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm glad it all worked out. It's a Festivus Miracle! Corry 19:42, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

This is evidence, I think, that the Christian notion of "sin" is a whole bunch of..., but dishonor is self-evidently a Very Bad Thing. ListenerX^TalkerX 19:44, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Gee, kudos for that little Life Lesson, o learned one. Clearly Javascap's whole dilemma here was all actually about the Christian notion of sin . . . Ŵêâŝêîôîď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 21:02, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Since when does conversation here in the Saloon Bar have to stay on topic? ListenerX^TalkerX 23:19, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Glad that she came to her senses and did the honourable thing. Make sure you tell her how much you respect her for her integrity and not putting you in a difficult position which conflicted with your incredibly high morals as an idealistic atheist (I think I got that bit right?). Генгис^{Our ignorance is God; what we know is science.} 20:36, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, ditto Genghis. Glad it worked out in the best possible way. Now you don't have to dump her ;) ħuman 01:24, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh I miss him

Jinx _{hi Jinx!} is back on Ray Comfort's blog, and posted this gem. To bad he's on the outs at CP; he always made things so insanely stupid. Z3ro^talk 20:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Jinx _{hi Jinx!}: "Atheists: if atheism is true, then what benefit(s) would I gain by reconverting back to atheism? And if Christianity is true, then what do you think you would lose by converting to Christianity?"

There's no way you're this fucking stoopid, Jinx. You'd better hurry the fuck up and convert to the other couple thousand religions with your logically bankrupt wagering... ^{— Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs} 20:39, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

(EC) There is a comment by a "Jason" made 17 minutes later. Do you suppose that is Jinx _{hi Jinx!} arguing against himself? ListenerX^TalkerX 20:40, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

What is the proper way to cook a can of Sardines?

Here's one thing I can't figure out, in all my continuous ranting and bitching, how the fuck do you properly cook some Sardines?

Same as lobster, throw the sealed can into a pot of boiling water. Remember don't put a lid on and make sure you keep your face over the pot. - π 02:13, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

If they're in a tin, they're already cooked. Open tin, drain, mush them up a bit if you like, season to taste, pile high on hot buttered toast, add clotted cream, and enjoy! ħuman 02:18, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Say, on a related topic, I've got some lovely strong blue Shropshire cheese and some water crackers. Is there some proper way to enjoy this treat? --Kels 05:08, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, smush them up together and chew them in your mouth til satisfied, then swallow. Rinse, repeat as necessary. ħuman 05:24, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Port, you need Port. Yum, Port. Mmmmm. Must have Port. DogP 06:47, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

As a Brit of a certain age I know that the only way to cook sardines is to

1. Place bread under grill
2. Open can of sardines
3. Find cloth to wipe up spilt oil
4. Panic at smoke coming from grill
5. Scrape burnt bits off the toast
6. Mash down sardines onto toast
7. Replace under grill
8. Eat
9. Change clothes due to numerous marks from fishy oil

See, simple. Silver Sloth 11:52, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Indeed! In fact, the very fact that somebody was able to create something as heavenly as mashed sardines on toast (no, not you *g*) might just prove the existence of a benevolent gOD. --PsyGremlin_Whut? 12:04, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Does anybody still call them pilchards? That's what Brits eat, not this fancy "sardines" foreign muck Totnesmartin 14:29, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

They may have been pilchards - they certainly bore no relationship to the sardines I had recently when in Gran Canaria - but the tin said "sardines" so that's what they were. My better half says that they should come in tomato sauce but she's from the other end of the country from me and we have lots of these disagreements (Should Christmas cake be iced or plain and served with cheese, for example). Silver Sloth 14:42, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Nobody noticed Everyone ignored my mention of the most heavenly topping for sardines on toast :(. I think it was clotted cream, anyway. It wasn't whipped, it was very thick. ħuman 01:10, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

If it was thick enough to spread like butter then it was probably clotted cream. Incidentally "pilchards and cream" is an old Devonian expression implying unseemly private behaviour hidden by outward respectability. Totnesmartin 09:33, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

"... We're the A-Team."

I bought the first series of the A-Team on the weekend, and the second episode of it follows the A-Team as they rescue a bunch of kids from a religious culthead maniac. Can anyone think of any real-life, present day religious maniacs that like spending their days hanging around kids? SJ ^Debaser 08:50, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Pretty much of all of them I'd say. But I suppose you were thinking of someone in particular. Генгис^{You have the right to be offended; and I have the right to offend you.} 12:19, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I suuuuuuuure am! SJ ^Debaser 13:49, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Michael Jackson! --Kels 14:52, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I always thought of us more as Gilligan's Island--Nate River 03:27, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Please introduce me to the "millionaire and his wife"? ħuman 03:41, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I think I fall under "and the rest". - π 03:53, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, that makes you either "Mary Ann" or the "Scientist" "Professor". Pleased to meet you either way. Shit, does that make me Gilligan?! ħuman 04:04, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I kind of imagine you more as the Skipper and CUR as Gilligan, every time he says something you can hit him with his own hat. He was the Professor by the way, he was as far as I could tell Professor of Organic Chemistry, Inorganic Chemistry, Experimental Physics, Nuclear Physics, Botany, Zoology and Pacific Islander Culture and Languages. Pity he wasn't a Professor of Naval Architecture. I feel more like a hokie farm girl than that. - π 04:12, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Doh, thanks for the correction, and my being too lazy to sing it to myself. Yeah, me skipper, CUR gilligan, that's funny, that is, I don't care who you are, that's funny. ħuman 04:17, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Conservative win

Doh! Previously if you went to IMDB and entered 'wanker' in the search box it came back with George W Bush. Now, it comes back with popular gay librul Irish comedian Graham Norton. Score one for teh assfly? Crundy 14:09, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Willy Wanker and The Fudge Packing Factory... I'm never putting that kind of search through there ever again. ^theist 15:35, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

thats a semi-classic Hamster 18:57, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Not quite as good as "Schindler's Fist" though. Crundy 10:39, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Quantifying openmindedness redux

Open mindedness Good video, valid points. Yorick 04:34, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Obama V Aliens

Here. I also found a Bush game, shoot-em-up style. -- 01:33, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Are you still here, Gilligan? HatWhack! ħuman 04:26, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh, no. He's fallen to the alcohol of the bored teenager, the flash game. Stupid educated Hoover! 15:29, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I fell several years ago. -- 21:20, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Star Trek again

Watched it at work last night. It WAS quite good! Not that I've ever watched any Star Trek before, but it was good indeed. Then two gypsies came in and I had to throw them out. SJ ^Debaser 10:40, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

At work? --  Nx/talk  10:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Si. At the risk of revealing too much about myself, I work in a cinema. SJ ^Debaser 10:45, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Ah I see. _{Quick Phantom Hoover, info for RationalWikiWiki!} It's a good movie, except for a few WTF moments. The ending battle was a disappointment (cheap knock-off of Wrath of Khan, complete with defiant to the last breath villain and escape at the last moment with explosion in the background) --  Nx/talk  10:57, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Yah it was a bit weird at the end. Didn't realise Trek was where "Dammit man, I'm a doctor, not a physicist!" was from. Also I haven't had the honour of a RWW page created aboot me yet. SJ ^Debaser 11:04, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I just got home from watching Star Trek - great stuff, I thought. My 21yr old daughter was with me - she didn't get all the references to the TV series etc, but picked it all up pretty quickly & enjoyed it also. Some of the dialogue/acting was a bit hammy, and effects were great. Liked the way they just dismissed the whole so-called 'time travel paradox'. Obviously setting up for a whole new series of movies. Can't wait!RagTop^{Gone sailing} 11:47, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

And then I found this.RagTop^{Gone sailing} 12:36, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Wow, a list of Star Trek spoofs, and they forgot the king. Epic fail. --Kels 19:49, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Rationalwikiwiki

I'm at my college/uni whatever at the mo and I tried to get onto Rationalwikiwiki... Blocked because "The page you tried to access is classified as: Tasteless/Illegal/Questionable". CP is unblocked as is RW (obviously) but Liberapedia is blocked. Conservative censorship in the British public education system anyone...? SJ ^Debaser 10:44, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I've tried to get around them in my time as well, and I find the Google caches are very good at gaining access to fairly static sites. Stupid educated Hoover! 15:14, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

And RWW is about as static as it gets ^{— Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs} 18:11, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Google doesn't work at my college, but it doesn't matter as I'm not on RWW and considerably less active on LP than I am here. SJ ^Debaser 18:13, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry ...

... for promoting an advertiser but I love teh meerkats. _and marmite 11:52, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Not even same! Taytopacket 12:30, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

This campaign is teh eevul. Peepul are buying meerkats as pets. They dig holes everywhere, you can't keep a meerkat in your house. Just say no to meerkats! Генгис^evolving 16:07, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

You shouldn't keep any kind of exotic animal as a pet, regardless of how cute it is. Z3ro^talk 16:12, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Damn, those commercials are annoying. Sitting their, watching neverending Friends repeats on E4 and then some meerkat pops up chatting about car insurance. Talking meerkats? Wearing robes? This brings all kinds of annoying biological and anamorphic questions into the equation... SJ ^Debaser 17:44, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

At first I thought you meant the Telus Mobility ads, but they're a bit more charming than the talking version. Ripoff of Geiko, perhaps? --Kels 20:55, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Ray! Ray, stop it! You're killing me!

Bahahahahahaha fucking hilarious! Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 04:52, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

You know what is stupider than Ray? These comments. My personal favourite:

“”bacteria and viruses can survive the most extreme conditions, if a habital planet were to blow up bacteria could survive one a metor, i just think its funny how dinosuars died by a metor then humans just seem to come out of the blue, i do believe our bodys adapted and bound itself to this planet and its animals, but i also believe our brain, and our ability to create and build came from space.

—Jtownlegends

YouTube never fails to provide clogo.- π 05:09, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

www.pulltheplugonatheism.com? Is that a Ken

joynt?  So a 30 minute debate is to decide the fate of the existence of God on teh innertubez?  She would be so disappointed in those she designed so poorly... ħuman 05:59, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

That site is amazun! From this:

“”So if you call yourself an atheist, you are saying that you have no belief in a God—a Creator. Creation just happened. Everything you see—all the different breeds of dog (both male and female), all the different breeds of cat (both male and female), all the different fish in the ocean (both male and female), giraffes, elephants, cattle, sheep, horses, birds, flowers, trees, the sun, the moon, the stars, the four seasons, night and day, the marvels of the human body—the eye with its 137,000,000 light sensitive cells (we have been made well Robert) . . . all these marvels of creation were made by nothing. They all just happened. That’s atheism at its core. What an intellectual embarrassment.

Oh my god! They're right! How embarassing. I shall immediately convert to Christianity and believe in edible Jewish zombies who are their own father who commit suicide to free us from a curse they imposed. Thanks Ray Comfort. Crundy 14:17, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

That whole webshite is probably the most pathetic anti-atheist site I've encountered. He says nothing throughout beyond "I can't understand your reasoning, therefore it is wrong." It's crap. _and marmite 15:33, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

My favourite bit:

"If any species came into existence without a mature female present (with complimentary female components), that one male would have remained alone and in time died."

_and marmite 15:45, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

But that one male would have been sinless? No one else to kill, or wife to adulter... wait, I bet he would be swearing nonstop or coveting his dog's wife... Nevermind. --Shagie 16:50, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

You fool! Dogs are made by god for the car, cats are for wives. This is why no dogs existed before the invention of the automobile. Prove me wrong. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 09:47, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I've just got round to watching that with sound (don't have speakers or headphones at work). What the unholy fuck? It looks like one of those Scientology propoganda films that are flying around PooTube. Do they seriously think that if you include the coke can bit the argument makes more sense? ^theist 07:35, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm now physically vomiting. ^theist 07:40, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I reckon the first time I saw it it did have the coke can bit in it; it does actually looks more ridiculous. I will have to hunt youtube for it. - π 08:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

It is here, 2:28 onwards. - π 08:11, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Arrgh! Straight after the banana they go straight on with the already debunked irreducibly complex eye argument and that fucking quotemine job on Darwin. I stopped watching. Ed Poor 08:16, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I have a feeling that I have seen this from the beginning... I'll also have to go back to the original to see if my comment -wondering why it's okay to take Dawkins so out of context it's not even funny, but removing a small bit about a coke can was blasphemous quote mining- was approved or not. ^theist 08:24, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I reckon I have even seen Ken

say that Darwin quote is taken out of context and he collects mined quotes, so it must be pretty embarrassing amongst YECs to still be wheeling that one out. - π 08:26, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

My name is Ace and I'm an alcoholic

For a variety of different reasons I will be dry for the next few days. It is 8:18am Wednesday morning and my last drink was at 11:30pm last night. I will remain high and dry until 4:00pm Friday afternoon. This decision was made due to my after hours productivity becoming almost zero. I am supposed to be studying the works of Thomas Hobbs, John Locke, Machiavelli and the like; also I am supposed to helping someone write a book but as of yet I have done sweet fuck all except drink, smoke cigarettes and make an awful mess. I haven't attempted something like this in many, many years. I even took two bottles of scotch on a four day hike to Machu Picchu some years back so I am really not sure how my body is going to react to this rapid detox. Probably not well. I think the last time I tried the shakes began at the 30 hour mark. Wish me luck on this endeavour, any tips on how to remain sane whilst sober are appreciated. And if I snap at any of you (which is likely - my fiancée is also aware the she best tread carefully), please accept my apologies in advance. Love Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 20:19, 12 May 2009 (UTC) Fuck it, I have been invited to a party tonight. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 01:51, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

This may not be inline with your goals, but I hear pot does wonders for what ails you during alcohol detox. ^{— Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs} 20:25, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah thing with that though is trying to be productive! Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 20:27, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, I don't know how hard you're going to detox. If it's bad, "productive" could mean "stopping vomiting and getting something to stay in your stomach". ^{— Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs} 20:37, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Hah, when I went to Machu Picchu I found the coca-tea to most efficaceous especially when followed by a couple of Pisco Sours. Генгис^{Gum disease} 20:39, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Ace--if you get the shakes, get thee to the hospital. My grandfather died of a heart attack while having the DTs. Granted, he was older and not in great shape, but still, you gotta take care...Amin7b5 20:49, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I am not expecting vomit nor extreme DT's. Just know I'll get extreme irritability, insomnia, night sweats and very bad dreams. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 20:51, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for posting the fact you are de-toxing at the Local Saloon. ;) Javasca₧ I like melodramatic garbage bins 21:07, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I call this state "the ghosties" from the lights that seem to flash around the room when you're trying to sleep. Irritating as fuck. May I recommend a hot shower immediately before bed. Seems to combat the insomnia element anyway. Taytopacket 21:18, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

"The Ghosties"? I like it. I know the feeling. I also get into bizarre hypnogogic states when trying to sleep while detoxing and have weird hallucinations and hear muttering (mostly its when detoxing after a particularly hard week of drinking). Meh, I'll be fine, its only three days.....three days?....THREE FUCKING DAYS! Ahhh fuck! Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 21:35, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

When I'm turning off the boozeworks for a while, I usually just switch to coffee, caffeinated. Keeps your head together and you have the juice to be productive. Aboriginal Noise ^{with 4 M's and a silent Q} 22:05, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi Ace, I went through a short period of self-monitored "detox" a couple summers ago. To further addle my brains I was syncing back into rising during daylight (I tend to drift later and later unless I really fight it). I took notes to be on the safe side (just minor observations and a timeline). Only thing was a bit careless about is that I live alone, so if something hit me hard I'd have to get to the phone and hit 911 (part of the reason for the notes). It was ok, but I ended up missing the sauce after a few weeks (or was it longer?). As it is, now, if I drink much less than usual (say, half my maximum), I don't sleep well, but feel better the following day, and the restlessness is made up for by lots of intense vivid dreams (Like the Gilliam-esque city I was hanging out in last night...). But as warned, keep the red telephone to medical professionals at close hand. Detox can have bad side effects as mentioned, and by the time they hit it's too late to go back off the wagon to fix them. Anyway, best of luck and health in your endeavor. ħuman 01:32, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi there Human, it's only three days so I should fine. It has been a long long time since I went longer than 24 hours (2 years maybe?) but I'll be alright. On friday night I'll be back on it but only for the weekend. My reasons are to get a few things done, like shaving. Also my money is tight at the moment. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 01:37, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

thanks for all your comments/advice but I have been invited to a party tonight. Let the good times roll. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 01:51, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Laissez le bon temps roulez! ħuman 02:19, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Party or not, wouldn't it be better to do it gradually? That is, reduce alcohol consumption without completely eliminating it? At least this works better in other cases (dieting, coffee, sports). You'd get the benefits without the drawbacks. Or do you think that you can't keep your drinking moderate, either all or nothing? Editor at CP^{Oh, Finland! Why?} 09:17, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

fuck it all, the party was a bust. A bunch of low-renters, low-brows and no-brows all haggling over the remains of their failed dreams and the dreams of their ancestors. I left in haste, hailed a cab and tossed my glass from the window. A guy as hep as me needs not such degrading experiences. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 09:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Sooooooo... are you still high and dry, or did you take another shot of whiskey? Javasca₧ no hell below him 03:01, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

BAH, the high and dry bullshit will never work. I am at the whim of something larger, what a fool I was to try defy it. No, whatever work I have to do will be done behind a cloud of liquor fumes. This is how it has always been. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 03:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Why isn't the news actually like this?

I'm probably way behind the times, but this is an awesome editing job:

--JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 05:08, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

That's just wonderful work. Well done those peeps. DogP 06:11, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Trippy... ^theist 07:31, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Anti-discrimination Ad

Here is something that has happened in my part of the world in the last hour. A strangely popular TV show about TV ads every weeks gives two ad agencies a brief to "sell the unsellable"; introduction of child labour, selling ice to Eskimos, invading New Zealand ect. They are usually quite amusing and a good laugh is had by all. This week how ever they did not run one of the ads, instead posting on the internet with a 13 minute discussion with the ad's creator and 3 of the panellists about the ad. The brief this week was End Shape Discrimination the company's ad that did screen is here. The other ad basically equated racism and homophobia with discrimination of fat people. The ad and discussion can be found here (take note of the warnings). Even in the last hour this has generated a lot of talk. I must say shocking as though the ad was I felt it did hugely alter my perceptions a lot. - π 12:52, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Now, why don't we have awesome ideas for TV like that in the UK? I might be tempted to turn on the actual physical TV set to watch that series. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 01:00, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

That is pretty interesting and funny. The "banned" one seemed pretty serious and effective but suddenly cutting to "FATPRIDE" was just hilarious. ^theist 07:47, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

WTF??

no... really... wtf?? --PsyGremlin_Whut? 14:18, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Lots of arms to rip off.

I don't see a problem; I always kinda assumed Wookies would support Ron Paul. Z3ro^talk 15:36, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't everyone go out in a Wookie suit when it is snowy? I always assumed that was natural. Aboriginal Noise ^{with 4 M's and a silent Q} 15:49, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Mine's pretty warm. User:Nutty Roux/sigtalk 16:45, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I can has Wookie suit too? Man, I want one of those. Secret Squirrel 02:27, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I have a thick wool cloak I wear in the winter time... keeps me warm even when the wind is a-blasting... Add a nice lightsaber and some eclectic clothing, Jed I. Knight! Javasca₧ is writing a comment 03:00, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Not so suprising fact = nerds are right wing crazies. News at 11. DogP 05:53, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Gack

Could someone help me so that my sandbox can do things like the collapse comment on here? -- 20:38, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Wow, that looks insanely ugly. Why would you want that? --Kels 20:51, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

To make a long story short, I think otherwise. I think that if I could have it so that my userboxes were organized into different sections that could be collapsed or expanded, that would make grouping easier and viewing them easier. -- 20:55, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't even work on that WP user's page. Why not just do what I did (see my user page)? ħuman 21:00, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I can't tell if that WP page is more hideous in a small window or spread across my widescreen monitor. It's like suicide. Don't do it. User:Nutty Roux/sigtalk 21:02, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Despite having several user boxes which are widely used on Wikipedia I think UBX's are a bit passé. I remember when Windows 3.0 first came out, I was changing colour schemes two or three times a day, downloading After Dark screensavers (remember the flying toasters?) and searching for the latest wav file for sound effects. Now I use the same muted scheme (Silver) on all my machines without any desktop wallpaper, have most sounds disabled and haven't changed any display settings since I installed the OS except when I connect to an external monitor with my laptop. Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 21:53, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Gack indeed. When I realized I could "customize" the various system sounds, I went searching for .wav files and found... a Looney Tunes sounds site. So when I got new mail, the roadrunner "beep beep"ed and whooshed away... and other far worse ideas. Now I settle for my custom XP start and stop clips, because I hate the stock ones. ħuman 22:33, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Back when sound cards that could play actual digital samples instead of just midi from a preset bank of instruments were the very latest and greatest thing, my sound card came with a whole range of sounds to show it off. It's amazing how quickly having someone saying "I've fallen and I can't get up" gets old when you replace the default system beep with it. (Oh, also my handheld PC circa 1997-8 would play the Scotty "Hello, computer" from Star Trek IV when you powered it on. Very Hackers.) --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 00:30, 14 May 2009 (UTC) --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 00:28, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Argh. Blast you all for chewing my time with retrocomputing diversions. Did you know the latest Linux kernel no longer supports old non-IDE, non-scsi CD-ROM drives? Even if my old computer with the Soundblaster pro CD-ROM drive hadn't packed up a couple of years back, I couldn't put a modern system on it anyway. Bah. No legacy support for computers only a couple of decades old, there's not even any econet support anymore. Fucking killjoys. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 00:47, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Computers a "couple decades" old? Like my turbo XT (10 Mhz!) with its 20 Mb HDD? I reused that floppy drive until it finally died - about 15 years or so as I recall. And I've been using the same case for about a decade (3 CPUs?). Which will probably be retired in favor of a Shuttle later this year. ħuman 01:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

If it's not backwards compatible with the ZX-81, what the hell good is it? ---Kels 01:55, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Back in college, we put the 'backwards' in 'backwards compatible.' We got a Wang semi-compatible to run linux 1.3. The 'semi-compatible' part meant that it only had 512k of base ram. We had to tell lilo (no Stitch) that there was an array from 512k to 640k and no, it couldn't write there. The memory cards were full length cards (not simms or sipps), and the drive was a half height 5.25" MFM drive. The MFM drive used a voice coil to spin the platters rather than a stepping motor of some sort - when it had to re-calibrate after hitting a bad block the drive would beep. The drive was so slow that it was faster to swap to an NFS mounted disk on a 10baseT network than local. Swapping was important, we only had 4.5 megs of ram and the drive was only 40 megs. The monitor was "Casper" brand - it was nicknamed "Casper the Unfriendly Monitor" because whenever it was turned on, the other monitors in the area would lose focus. For some reason, the kernel patches to run Wangix were never accepted into linux. Still, at least we weren't running Eunice. (Eunice is Unix emulation on VMS) --Shagie 08:06, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

You have to read that post with a melancholy violin melody in the background, and maybe add in a few more "you weren't there man, you weren't there"s in. ^theist 08:27, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Well shoot...

Encyclopedia dramatica seems to be going down the tubes. Nothing major, just sayin'. ĴαʊΆʃÇä₰ hi there! 00:34, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Wow, could it be because of that Cracked article? Or just forgetting to keep track of expenses v. income? ħuman 00:47, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Or the world realized that ED isn't funny. ENorman 17:50, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Wow, what does that say about us?--Nate River 03:16, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

This is where they realise their folly. 12 year olds don't have any money. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 11:00, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

The new meme?

Is to make our sigs use the "unsigned" template? Please to help an old man, I may be hopelessly behind the times.... ħuman 05:31, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I am still using a sig which looks like ĴαʊΆʃÇä₰ would rather be hated for who he is than loved for who he is not, or if I want to, like ĵ₳¥ášÇ♠ʘ no hell below him, or even ĴαʊΆʃÇä₰ do do da de do da de! 19:26, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

It's not a meme unless it spreads, so far I haven't seen many actually use it. ^theist 16:02, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Grunt

I want a drink. I want to feel like my brain was smashed out by a gold brick wrapped in lemon. Do you folks have anything like that around here? Yorick 04:41, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Alas poor Yorick it's past our bartender's bedtime, but there is a link to the bar at the top of the page. Make your choice interesting! And I hope you feel better in the morning. Things always seem worse at night. User:Nutty Roux/sigtalk 04:44, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Fuck that, I'll serve you! What do you want? I have whisky, beer and methamphetamine. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 04:45, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

A single plum, floating in perfume, in a man's hat, kind sir. User:Nutty Roux/sigtalk 04:48, 14 May 2009 (UTC)\

Drank that already, was OK. Now, you want some meth? I think I got acid floating around in my kit bag. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 04:49, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm looking for something that will knock me out for the next 24 days. And I swear I'm 21 I just left my wallet at home. Yorick 04:51, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

(ECed for 12 hours) I'd suggest LSD with a PCP chaser. But the whiskey with a meth chaser Ace offered ought to work almost as well. ħuman 20:15, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Dont worry kid, I trust ya. What you need is GHB and some whisky. Oh, but only have 2ml of GHB each time. Its powerful stuff. Hmmmm I think we need an article on it actually. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 04:53, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Since you are looking for a Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster, there are recipes here. ListenerX^TalkerX 04:52, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Cough syrupatini with coke on the rim. User:Nutty Roux/sigtalk 04:56, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Now your talking....reminds me of night I had in Bolivia....Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 05:00, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I feel the need to rant. Anyone have the experience where they loved a girl more than anyone else ever, and honestly knew it, but then found out that she liked you less than the manipulative asshole of an ex-boyfriend before you that essentially raped her, and then had her go around bragging about how she is "a feminist" for suddenly cutting all conversation off with you unless it is meant to hurt you? Just asking? Yorick 05:03, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I dated a bi-polar chick for awhile, screwed my head over and over and over. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 05:06, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Besides the second-wavers who consistently try to redefine the term, the greatest threat to feminism is immature girls who think it is an excuse to be mean to their "ex"es. ListenerX^TalkerX 05:18, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Commiserations old chap. It give me no satisfaction to say that you were warned <insert smug diff link here> about this loser that girl. No matter what anyone else may advise, ultimately we all have to go through our own learning experiences about the opposite sex. Sometimes it is actually easier when you can see that she's a cold-hearted bitch after all, yes it's a kick in the nuts but the pain will ease. In my experience this is a better way to finish than dragging it out over a prolonged period and wanting to be "just friends" - it's like ripping a band-aid off in one go. Also recognise that it's actually better that it happened sooner rather than later, your suffering would be even greater if you'd invested a year or two of your life in the relationship before she pulled the plug. You won't be the only one to see through her, other girls will know how she's treated you. The better you handle her bad-mouthing then the more your esteem will rise among the other females. In the meantime, the PGGBs are on me. Генгис^{Our ignorance is God; what we know is science.} 06:37, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I was wondering what was going on with you, Yorick, after your last post. Drown your sorrows, here's a pint o' Guinness and a pack of naked lady playing cards. SJ ^Debaser 09:32, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Template for TK

Found a nice template on WiiBrew that ThickKunt could use on his userpage. Crundy 12:25, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I can imagine plenty of uses for that. Not mentioning any names, of course. 16:03, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh go on. There's a double shot of brake fluid in it for you. Crundy 22:00, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Online lectures

I subscribe to http://skepticblog.org by Michael Shermer [author of the Skeptic column in Scientific American, How We Believe & Why People Believe Weird Things) and noticed he did a lecture called "Why Darwin Matters" which is now being hosted at the University of California San Diego. It's almost an hour long. But they also have a lot of other online content which people might be interested in. Генгис^{You have the right to be offended; and I have the right to offend you.} 19:42, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Gunz

How do you spell Ngghhhhhhhuugghhhaaa?

I had a look at NeoVampire's WP page, from the Gack link above and never mind the hideous userboksen - look at the gun collection. That's one thing I've never understood about gun nuts - by all means have a .22, or a shotgun or a handgun... but wtf are you doing with an FN P-90 or H&K XM8? It's not like they're hunting rifles or something? (Besides the only person who looks cool handling a P-90 is Henrietta.) --PsyGremlin_Whut? 07:48, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I've always thought that gun nuts basically use their guns as penis extentions. That's really the only explanation. ^theist 08:29, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

In the UK we have knives to worry about. A lot more personal (like Heath Ledger 'splains in the Dark Knight) but what'd be better if the people that think it's OK to carry them around ended up chopping their bits off by accident. SJ ^Debaser 09:39, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I think owning multiple guns is a suicide prevention tool, if they ever get so depressed they want to blow their brains out, the indecision over which of their vast array of guns to use lasts until after they've realised what a monumental mistake that would have been. I only own one gun, an India pattern musket, the firing process for which begins "First, mill some black powder coarse enough that using it doesn't make the barrel explode." --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 10:21, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

The guy is sick and confused. If you open the 'erotica' tab - !!NSFW!! - there's some BDSM pickies. OK, so each to their own and all but when you combine that with gun nut... Also, check out the categories he's in He seems to claim to be British, Irish and Mercan. As I said, confused. Silver Sloth 10:55, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, I've been in on my fair share of knife and electric stuff, but "gunplay" is a new one to me. ^theist 16:09, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

OMG, he has BDSM PICS! He's SICK, I tell you, SICK!! Seriously, there's lots to criticize him for, but BDSM makes him sick now? --Kels 16:17, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually, that relationships/sexuality list is fairly sane and I'd probably have most of those up if I cared for Userboxes that much... ^theist 16:55, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: the guns people collect... I understand it at a "collector" level - when your into some sort of thing, and get a few, ones you'll never use are still cool. I have far too many telephones, and of course at least some could never actually be used, if not many. Once upon a time it was "fun" to coax a 40's unit from Holland to ring and work and hang up properly, but eventually they are just neat things to look at. ħuman 20:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Weapons are useful. I posess one 9mm pistol (I uploaded a piccy of it), one bolt-action rifle(for target practice), and one katana (actual razor sharp, not fake). I posess these guns not because I am a gun nut or paranoid(OK, maybe paronoia), but because I use them for target shooting and hunting with some of my friends who are gun nuts. A gun is a powerful tool, and should be respected as such. I'll never really understand people who have 12 AK's or triple barrled shotguns in their house, but I see it as perfectly acceptable to have maybe a pistol or rifle. Theemperor.

Ok, why does Wikicommons even have those pictures? I mean, most of them aren't even used in articles, they're only linked to by creepy guys from their user pages.... What is the point of that? I've never been one for the "OMG, Wikipedia has Naked people, get it off the intertubz" type of argument, but they can really do better than serving as a porn dump. SirChuckB^{Call the FBI} 08:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

@kels - having BDSM pics, per se, doesn't make him sick - but, someone who seems to have an obsession with weapons AND with BDSM seems to have some definite issues. It's as if he only wishes to relate to other people when he's in a position of power. Silver Sloth 09:56, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Info required

Is there a way of copying one website to another without downloading to my home machine & uploading to the new site? _and marmite 14:36, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

If you have shell access on either server yes, otherwise no. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 16:52, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I've gotwill have write ability on both, one I used to maintain & the other will shortly be mine. There's a lot of photos on the one & byte limiited on data Xfer so I don't want to use my allowance if I can avoid it. _and marmite 17:17, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

If it's not too complicated you could always ask someone with an unlimited broadband connection whom you trust to do it for you. Change the passwords beforehand if necessary and change them back afterwards. Генгис^evolving 19:24, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Without knowing what I am talking about, you ought to be able to use an ftp program that lets you log onto two separate locations and just copy/move files. Your only bw would be sending commands and getting results. I use wsftp, but the free version defaults one of the windows to "local". I don't see why there wouldn't be a version that lets both windows be "remote". ħuman 20:27, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

In case anyone's interested gftp (apparently) does the job ["Supports FXP file transfers (transferring files between 2 remote servers via FTP)"] _and marmite 02:53, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Excellent find, I hope it works for you! (And hope I helped a tiny bit :)) ħuman 02:56, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Vaccine Hysteria--is there a doctor in the house?

I am going to exotic locales for research in the summer, and got shot up with a buncha vaccines yesterday--and by 10 at night I felt as bad as I've ever felt in a long time--tired, nauseous, headache. Feel much better after sleeping about 12 hours. Normal? Got another round of shots on Monday, don't want to feel like that....Amin7b5 15:52, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Was one of them the rabies vaccine? That one almost knocked me out last time I had it. Never had any problem with any of the other shots from the standard battery of "going to for'n parts with inadequate sanitation" vaccinations. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 16:01, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

You probably ought to ask PalMD. --Edgerunner⁷⁶_{Your views are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter} 16:05, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

It's completely normal to feel like you have a mild cold or middling allergy attack when your immune system gets kicked into overdrive to make all those antibodies. There's usually no live organisms in vaccines, so what you're experiencing is similar to what happens when you get invaded by foreign protein, but it won't replicate and you'll get better real quick. Just wait until the Lariam kicks in. Say hi to waking up in the middle of the night covered in sweat and screaming. Over and over. User:Nutty Roux/sigtalk 16:09, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

That's why I chose the Malerone--I'm prone to anxiety/panic attacks, so Lariam seemed like a Bad Choice. Amin7b5 03:02, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Perl help

Now that my Solaris Korn shell scripts don't work because we've moved over to Linux on a PC I decided that I needed to transcribe them to Perl which I've never used before. What I need to do is read binary files in a known format and decode the various bytes/words which may be hex, EBCDIC, ASCII, shorts, longs or IEEE floating point formats. My immediate need is to be able to read a hex byte and display it as a string so if the value is FF I can see that as a string in a text file or on the screen. If there's anyone who is an accomplished Perl programmer perhaps they could give a few tips on my talk page. Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 19:42, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm a completely non-accomplished Perl programmer, but as part of being "reasonable" when a friend was helping me make my handful of scripts work on my websites, I bought the O'Reilly manual ("Perl", a/k/a as I recall, the "camel" for the animal on the cover.) which is very good, and might contain the info you need. Heck, you might be able to google answers with the right keywords, I've been quite surprised by the amount of tech help out there. ħuman 21:03, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

You should use Python instead of Perl, if that is possible; I have heard Python referred to as "Perl done right." ListenerX^TalkerX 03:04, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

The unpack function might be what you are looking for. ListenerX^TalkerX 03:25, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Whoops; I should have looked at your talk-page first... ListenerX^TalkerX 03:35, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Talk about nostalgia

So I'm listening to my friend's online radio station, and this song comes on that sounds really familiar. So next time it comes 'round I do a little digging, and what pops up but this classic demo, which I used to play all the time back in the 90's when I first saw it. Still an awesome song, but this time I can find a bunch more of their music. Anyone else remember that? --Kels 02:32, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Let me google that for you!

Some dude at aSK has just used a brilliant website here. Superb way to sarcastically direct people to more info on any topic.

No doubt everyone but me has already heard of this months ago...-- Kriss Akabusi^{AAAWOOOGAAAR!!1} 09:29, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Took me a while to get what it was doing but that was awesome. ^theist 10:10, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Myuzak

What's the low down on music related articles about bands and artists? I haven't seen many and I was wondering if this'd be something RW should include or not. Thought I'd ask this time as I created an article on South Park and had it deleted by CUR after about five days. SJ ^Debaser 17:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

CUR. Heh. As far as I've seen, these types of articles can get tendentious--ask Human about the Monty Python spainish Inquisition skit. speaking for myself, I'd love to see more articles on, say, "family values" reactions to things like South Park et al.--as well as "politically correct" reactions from the other side...Amin7b5 17:46, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

If you can include strong "mission" elements in the first version you put in the mainspace you might be able to get an article like that to live. Otherwise, not. IE, John Lennon is in the mainspace still, but Sir Paul got moved to fun. So the answer really is "no, unless they are pretty serious activists and that can come first". Like the two Beatles mentioned, I could see a Joe Strummer article surviving, but not Mick Jones. ħuman 20:31, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

The recent conversation at talk:The Clash might help. Totnesmartin 20:54, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Ted Nugent is a pretty serious activist and he haz artikel.. Secret Squirrel 00:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. ħuman 01:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, the bands would have to be pretty politically active to fit in here. Thanks! SJ ^Debaser 13:16, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

How do these morons get money?

I don't really understand this. Apparently, some people just donated $1500 to Ray Comfort, so he could give away copies of his stupid books to atheists. How is it there are these people who have disposable income, but are also stupid enough to believe that Ray is anything other than a Jebus whore living fat off of the Christ racket?

Surely the set of people who are well paid and the set of people who find Ray convincing have an intersection so small as to be non-existent? It makes me so angry that people are willing to publish his trash and cut down perfectly good trees to print it on, and that other people are willing to finance its distribution. Maybe I just ought to give up and become a cynical preacher, and rake in the priestly pound. Gah. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 18:51, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Cognitive dissonance, nepotism, cronyism, dumb luck... ^{— Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs} 19:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

The real questions are... "Should I order one?" and "Should I have it signed?" ^{— Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs} 19:10, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Only if you're going to compress it in to briquettes and use it to heat your house. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 19:20, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I dunno, I like collecting weird stuff like that - if it's free, anyway. I have a half dozen Bibles, a nifty tape & book Co$ thing, a homskollar YEC "science" textbook, etc... ħuman 20:51, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I also got a free DVD and some other junk from some YEC outfit last year before they realized they'd been sci-blogged or whatever and people were swamping them with requests just to use up their money. PS, I sent in my request; signed, of course. ħuman 20:55, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Why don't we all order a copy each and then post up photos of what we do to them? Totnesmartin 20:56, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Hehe...that sounds like fun. I'm with Human...I collect this stuff as a sort of science fiction genre. I got a bunch of homskollar books and lots of religious texts. ^{— Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs} 21:05, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Be sure to use a false name when signing up for these free giveaways, that way you can tell which of these scammers are selling your details to marketeers or sending irritating missionaries to your house at a later date. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 21:12, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Eh, the aftermath is part of the fun! Moar fundie crap in the mail! ħuman 21:15, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I subscribe to "The Good News" available free from http://www.gnmagazine.org/subscribe/index.htm to keep up to date with the latest conservative creationist idiocy. (Yes, I do use an alias.) Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member} 21:18, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't possibly subscribe to a magazine called the good news unless every issue had professor Farnsworth on the front. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 21:21, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Ooh, free bogroll. Soft, strong, and very absorbent. Where do I sign up? Crundy 22:03, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I could so get behind that idea... It's their money to waste how they see fit. ^theist 11:04, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Come gather round people, wherever you roam

I have an interesting story to tell the mob, but I'm not quite ready... Give me alcohol and I shall tell all. SirChuckB^{Call the FBI} 02:28, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Have vodka, do tell. The Emperor _{Kneel before Zod!} 02:30, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Have more vodka, spill your guts! ħuman 02:45, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Tease. Sterile padlock 02:46, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok... *Hic* After sucking down plenty of cold ones…. And a couple of warm ones, my storytelling impulses and my bladder have been jogged. Let me also take a moment to say you people are lousy drink buyers, which explains why so many of us are single. So here’s the promised story: I am currently in a production of Godspell in Denver (I’m an actor, we’ll do anything for money. See gathering storm commercial). It’s going very well, but there has been a little personal drama for me. The choreographer for show, someone I met back in January, and I have been talking a little outside of rehearsals. It became obvious that there is mutual attraction between the two of us. However, she’s a Christian and is having problems with her faith (personally I think it’s just her starting to see the issues that come with faith, and I hold out hope for her, but that’s another story). So anyway, there are some underlying issues here (bad ex boyfriend, personal doubt over faith, etc…) but this is really sad to me. Rejecting someone because they don’t share the same faith, despite mutual attraction and an obvious connection is really sad on so many levels. So to wrap up this story, the Christians can rejoice, another heathen agnostic has been denied a relationship because of the man in the sky issues. There is a little more to the story, but it’ll take more booze to get it out of me. SirChuckB^{Call the FBI} 03:23, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

When you say "problems with her faith," are you saying you might need to give her something like this, or something like this? ListenerX^TalkerX 03:32, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Alright, time to stop fucking around and start drinking like men.

hit me again, bartender...

Amin7b5 03:28, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

To Listener X, The latter and to Amin, I'll have a Vodka with a Witch Hazel chaser please. SirChuckB^{Call the FBI} 03:36, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

It sounded like you were getting dumped for being non-Christian. ListenerX^TalkerX 03:45, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh, well. The times they are a changing. _and marmite 03:47, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Not technically dumped, as we never really started dating... More like she's refuses to do what she wants to do because of an arbitrary litmus test... You know, what people like Andy always accuse liberals of doing... Oh well, I'm still open to a relationship if she changes her mind.... More so, and this is Psychology Major in talking, I really hope she figures out that faith should be a part of her life and not the only aspect of it. I have a strong suspicion that there is a hard core left wing agnostic inside just waiting to take over... Hey, it worked for Al Franken. SirChuckB^{Call the FBI} 04:09, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

(1) The terms "left-wing" and "fundamentalist" are not mutually exclusive; (2) it looks as though your prospective girlfriend does need a primer on how the Bible is not so hostile to inter-faith relationships as is whatever whackjob stands in the front of her church. ListenerX^TalkerX 04:17, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I actually don't think this is a case where she thinks that people of different faiths shouldn't date. More likely, she's start to question some aspects of her faith and having the usual mental battle over. I think she views me in a strange way. She's been taught all her life that non religious people are unhappy, unstable, ticking time bombs. But she sees that I am not like that, and I think she's afraid that if she starts dating me, she will lose her faith altogether. I wanna tell her that dating me or not, it's not going to change the questions she has in her mind, but I think this is something she needs to figure out alone. SirChuckB^{Call the FBI} 05:06, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

^{[more detail please]} ħuman 04:15, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I definitely agree with the fact that you hope it becomes part of her life rather than all of it. I know quite a few people who seem to use faith, sexuality or music taste as a total substitute for a personality and it's really annoying. Hope Godspell goes well, I remember doing backstage work for it a couple of years ago (I just wonder what the local Christian Union would have thought about it, considering that our Jesus was gay). ^theist 10:57, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

(unindent) That's too funny Armondikov, cause our Jesus is gay.... very gay.... Maybe it's a Godspell thing.... Oh well.... I'm really holding out hope, not so much for dating, cause I'm not too involved one way or another, but the whole thing just makes me kinda shake my head and sigh. SirChuckB^{Call the FBI} 20:30, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

One step nearer abiogenesis?

[2] _and marmite 03:02, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Fantastic stuff. Too bad our Creationist "friends" will just toss it off with a bit of perfunctory hand-waving. I feel bad for them missing all the really exciting stuff. --Kels 03:09, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Very nice. Especially "“Ribonucleotides are simply an expression of the fundamental principles of organic chemistry,” said Sutherland. “They’re doing it unwittingly. The instructions for them to do it are inherent in the structure of the precursor materials. And if they can self-assemble so easily, perhaps they shouldn’t be viewed as complicated.”" which is what, I think, PJR's favorite evolutionist, Kupper, is trying to get at in his book. ħuman 04:27, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Of course it's just an expression of organic chemistry! I've been telling creationists and other People Who Don't Get It that for ages. Biology is really just chemistry with bigger molecules :p ^theist 10:33, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Problem is, first Creatard gets hold of this will immediately latch on to "The instructions for them to do it are inherent in the structure of the precursor materials" and claim it's design. Mind you, Ungtss will probably get to it first and declare it not-science because we weren't there at the beginning to see if this really was the mechanism. --Kels 14:12, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, that's always the case that we "weren't there", but if you can basically throw some simple chemicals into a puddle, run it through a cylce that's almost like a natural condition and leave it, it's a pretty damn big hint that it's close right. ^theist 16:21, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

You know that, and I know that, but to some people 99% certainty just ain't enough. --Kels 16:27, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Surely you know that that page is far to long for me to even consider reading or getting involved in. :p But I know what you mean, some people think it's all or nothing with science, 99.9% sure just aint good enough, even though there are hundreds of ideas applying for the remaining 0.1% so their pet theory probably has much less of a chance than that of being right. ^theist 18:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm reminded of this wonderfully lulzy conversation I had with PJR many moons ago (I was socking as both 50something and Feichineejits) which produced what is, as far as I'm concerned, my favourite YEC comment ever - " Proteins only take a long time to build if they are occurring naturally, not if they are created supernaturally". DogP^{Marmite Patrol Info here} 19:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Need some help ASAP

I borrowed a laCie HD from a friend to grab some movies from them. I had trouble immediatly with it. It didnt upload all the files onto my laptop and would freeze during the file transfer. I have had it working once or twice but now, though the HD sounds like it is working fine etc, my laptop acts like it isnt there. Tried all USB ports and shutdown etc etc, all the simple troubleshooting tricks. Any ideas? ASAP as my lady friend is getting drunk and shitty. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 07:48, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm its not the HD, its my laptop thats the problem here. Hmmmmm Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 08:11, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

So predictably I wander away from the computer in disgust to go drink beer on the couch and eat gummi-bears. During my absence the little woman, drunk on champagne, wanders in a fixes the fucking thing. However she completely fucked the speakers so she sits and watches Benjamin Button through headphones while drink further and I watch The Sopranos while dreaming of violence. Ace McWicked^{Disco Jesus} 11:11, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Johnny's gone for a junior Mormon militiaman

Oh look, now the boy scouts are Jesus freaks with guns. Special salute, check. Ideologically pure, check. Weapons training, check. Is it too soon to wheel in Godwin? --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 13:45, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh no! That's just wrong. What ever happened to the 2-fingered salute and bondage knot tying badges and calling the boss Akeyla?--PsyGremlin_Whut? 13:59, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Looks like something I did for a buddy's bachelor party; we went to a SWAT training facility, got to bust down doors, run around with airsoft guns, shoot on the range some. Alot of fun. Now when the scouts start deploying, I'll be worried. Z3ro^talk 14:19, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Seems no different than a Jr-ROTC program to me. I don't see a problem with it. Jrssr5 14:46, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

You gotta admit...that seems like it would be a lot of fun. ^{— Unsigned, by: Neveruse513 / talk / contribs} 14:49, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Not so much a problem. Just seems like a normal game of Airsoft to me, although the Boy Scouts of America are still pretty much a joke to the rest of the scouting world. Maybe they're just trying to beef up their image. Though the comments from Cathy on that article are well fucking scary, people who say that should just NOT BE ALLOWED NEAR WEAPONS! ^theist 16:17, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Who are the rest of the scouting world? I thought the boy scouts was about it? Z3ro^talk 17:12, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, there's the girl scouts. As Tom Lehrer reminds us: If you're looking for adventure of a different kind, and you meet a girl scout who is similarly inclined, don't be shy, don't be flustered don't be scared. Be prepared. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 17:30, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

There's different scout movements in every country. Sweden has at least 5 separate organisation. They're all united in a common idea, but they're not the same thing by far. The Boy Scouts of America are just a US based branch most famous for consisting of utter prats (well, at least the ones I met who had brushing their teeth and putting on underwear as separate items on their itinerary... maybe it was just culture shock) and gay/atheist haters, whereas most of the rest of the world of scouts got over that a long time ago. Granted, there are a few exceptions to that Boy Scouts of America stereotype, but they're not the majority by far. (And Tom Lehrer FTW). ^theist 17:53, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Ah, that explains it. I'm too American for my own good. Z3ro^talk 18:04, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

A girl on guns (real ones): “I like shooting them,” Cathy said. “I like the sound they make. It gets me excited.”

She needs watching. EddyP 18:57, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Don't bash the scouts. If it wasn't for them I would never have got to play strip dominoes with the Guides. Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 19:22, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

BSA is where I learned how to burn things, and other forms of controlled demolition. Also the confidence to make a tent against heavy rain from a simple plastic poncho. ħuman 20:42, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Although most Scout troops in the UK were linked to churches (it's now changed a bit since my day) the religion bit was very minor and probably involved no more than a single prayer each meeting (but we had daily prayers at school anyway so this didn't seem unusual) and there was a monthly, non-compulsory, church parade. I enjoyed it for the camping, rafting, canoeing, first-aid, swinging about on ropes, skinning rabbits, cooking fish in clay (I even baked a cake in a biscuit-tin oven), a lot of other general practical stuff, etc. If I was ship-wrecked on a desert island then I reckon I could survive thanks to my scouting skills. Генгис^pillaging 21:43, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

European elections

Probably the most boring subject in the world, but the "exciting" European elections are upon us again. For those who would like some idea about who to vote for this site claims to be able to tell you. You fill out a questionnaire and it matches it to policies. Didn't really match me very closely to anybody in Spain though. :-( click here!--Bob^{bing up} 17:09, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

It's depressing that the only reason I know there are elections at all is because I got a fucking UKIP flier through the door. I think I'll have to vote just to make sure those fuckers don't win. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 17:35, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I am not a European, hence probably do not know the subtleties of the whole thing, but I am much opposed to the idea of a "United States of Europe," toward which the EU seems to be constantly heading. ListenerX^TalkerX 17:44, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Um, if you aren't European then what the fuck has it got to do with you? We don't come over there and tell all your damn states to secede from the union, because that was a colossal mistake. Of course, your own politicians seem to have that well in hand anyway. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 17:47, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

(EC)I got the UKIP flyer too. And plenty of invites to facebook groups about "vote in the Euro elections!!!11 it's for DEMOCRACY!!!!!11112" or whatever. But other than that, they're not even advertising their very existence well, although UK MPs are hogging all the airtime at the moment so it's unsurprising. ^theist 17:49, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

"What the fuck has it got to do with you?" Jus sanguinis; my ancestors came from over there.

As to your remark about the American Civil War, Europe is presently headed into exactly the sort of situation that sparked off said war. ListenerX^TalkerX 17:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm suddenly reminded of Toast's comments on the WIGORW section above... ^theist 17:59, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Must. Resist. Urge. To. Send. Audiocock. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 18:05, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

All right, all right; you do not need to get your knickers in a twist. I can see that this is an extremely touchy subject, although for what reason is not made clear, so I will not be pressing the issue further. ListenerX^TalkerX 18:13, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

It's probably not that touchy, but I think it's a little dramatic to say that Europe is heading towards a civil war. ^theist 18:33, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I think I'd choose the words "colossal arsehattery" rather than "dramatic", for one thing it's hard to have a civil war when you don't have a unified polity to rebel against. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 18:38, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

To make that statement clearer, Europe is now where the U.S. was in about 1783: a collection of sovereign states with some centralized administration (Continental Congress/EU) that is on the verge of becoming an actual "unified polity." ListenerX^TalkerX 18:43, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

The words "piss up" and "brewery" come to mind when examining the possibility of Europe unifying on nything meaningful. _and marmite 18:47, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

(EC) And if what I hear is right, then either Germany or Belgium will have to re-write their laws on what constitutes "beer" before even that can be agreed upon. ListenerX^TalkerX 18:55, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

(EC, but the above post sums this up) Okay, I might be able to accept that, to an extent. They are trying to strengthen the concept of Europe as an individual entity rather than a collection. But I don't think it will tip to being a single superpower in any of our lifetimes. You have to remember that Euorpe is much, much older than the US so the willingness to throw away individual identities of the countries is far less than it was in the mid/late 18^th century (which is obviously the main thing that hampers all the good stuff that can come from the EU too). The US's case would be different because it went from being essentially colonies to a country, rather than countries to, well, another country, superstate? I'm not sure what you think it might become, but I doubt it will happen soon. The single currency might come to the UK in a decade or two but I doubt soverenty will ever be lost and the EU turns fully unified. ^theist 18:50, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Was there not an attempt a few years ago to make a constitution that only failed when two EU countries made the error of pitching the question to the voters? ListenerX^TalkerX 18:59, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

What on earth makes you think the proposed European constitution had anything to do with establishing a federal Europe? It might help if you actually read it. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 19:10, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I have not read that constitution over closely, no. I do know that one of its provisions is that the council would be allowed to make decisions by majority vote rather than requiring consensus among the member states, which sounds quite a bit like one key difference between the Articles of Confederation and the current U.S. Constitution. I have also heard that it would have made EU law more binding on member countries than it is at present. ListenerX^TalkerX 19:26, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I think a lot of good (and surely some bad) has come from the EU so far - the euro, freedom of travel, etc. But as far as becoming a "superpower"? I don't think it's a goal, really. However, the economic size of the Union is a really big deal - the EU is now "leading" the USA with its regulations (meaning the USA has to informally adopt EU rules to sell products worldwide easily), take, for example, the ROHS standards. ħuman 19:20, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, they took mah lead solder! Silver solder sucks, the melting point is too damn high. If only I'd been thinking ahead, I would have stockpiled 100 reels of the evil solder so I could ruin the planet for my own selfish purposes. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 19:25, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Religious creeps grrr.........

In my town, there may or may not have been a tornado. In any event, a tornado occured in my state. Next day, I find that people die. Doesn't bother me too much (creepy, I know). What does majorly piss me off is that a bunch of idiots had the NERVE to picket a funeral, claiming that the tornado was a punishment from god for tolerating Jews and homosexuals. -- 21:27, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

'grats, y'all just got Westboro'ed. ENorman 21:31, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Just wish LJS had been destroyed, I could have pulled out the God Hates Shrimp sign. -- 21:33, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

The creeps were also claiming that the swine flu in Mexico was a judgement from God because the Americans elected Obama. Why the Mexicans had to suffer because of that I can't quite get my head round. But no one ever requires that religion makes sense. Генгис^{You have the right to be offended; and I have the right to offend you.}

How about a link, Arthur? ħuman 23:29, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Why doesn't God ever attack the picketers? I would love to see the reaction if one of those picketers got hit by lightning--Nate River 01:50, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Ah, you forget the obvious- Atheistic weather control, using devices invented by Nikolai Telsa, no doubt. The Emperor _{Kneel before Zod!} 02:02, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

But then it is not an act of God, but an act of man. Lacks the same appeal--Nate River 02:10, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

If bad things happen to sinners, it's God punishing them. If bad things happen to the Real True Christians, it's God testing them/Satan. --Yossie^{Spring in Fialta} 04:09, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

If you remember back to the Louis Theroux documentary, one of the Westboro picketers did get hit by a flying coke can. But it was one of the 8 year-olds that they bring along as human shields so God has a sick sense of humour and justice at the very least. ^theist 12:14, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Then there was that soccer same where lightning stuck and killed an visiting team while the home team was not even touched

[3]--Nate River 04:02, 16 May 2009 (UTC)