# RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive47

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## Xmas decorations

and the taking down thereof are my single biggest reason for not putting them up in the first place. Mother, on the other hand, wants to make her house pretty for the grandkiddies. Guess who's taking them down. *grumble* --PsygremlinSprich! 09:57, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Our sole decoration was a wooden Father Christmas carved and painted by my brother-in-law. My sister, on the other hand, had at least three trees in her house and is planning to put them all back up again in March when my nephew and his wife come over from Cape Cod for the traditional English Christmas celebration that he missed. ГенгисYou have the right to be offended; and I have the right to offend you. 11:05, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
The house of Toast being in full mode, we had NO, ZERO, NOT ONE festive display or decoration. (Dhe cards we received were tastefully placed on the downstairs loo windowsill & were binned on Boxing day.) I am eating & honeychat 19:03, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Did you or ML send any cards?  Lily Inspirate me. 19:09, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
Err... No. I am eating & honeychat 19:12, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, it just doesn't seem worth going all out unless you're going to have them up for a month, and if you're going to do the place up for a month, why not do every month with a different theme (although I know some "zany" students who may have tried this). postate 21:50, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Hence my wife's "holiday tree" a sort of fake ornamental evergreen (not really a Christmas tree, mind you) that is on display year 'round and that she decorates somewhat sporadically. 204.248.28.194 (talk) 18:18, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

## How's it going Barry?

Moved to here.--Tom Moorefiat justitia 15:58, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

## Glenn Beck - WTF?

Glenn Beck lambastes birthers? Huh? — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 17:08, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

## WP's Main Page In The News section

As of this writing the top item is Burj Khalifa. As the current world tallest building, I checked out the WP article on tallest structures. I noticed that the Tower of Babel is not mentioned anywhere in that article. Someone should alert CP and aSK to the bias. --Edgerunner76Tah-daaaaaaah! 19:30, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

The Tower of Babel was never said to be completed; God intervened as soon as they got started. ListenerXTalkerX 19:35, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
but was the plan bigger than the largest building today, did God move his throneroom in the sky , or are tall buildings only banned in Babel ? 199.242.176.85 (talk) 22:45, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

## NephilimFree on youtube - wtf ?

Just been watching Ice on the Moon , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgJLyNda5YI. The video is not so bad :) but in the comments he makes the statement "As for Noah, the ark has been found, complete with ribbing, iron rivets, balast stones, and monuments built by Noah and his family after the flood." My brain is now all hurty :( Hamster (talk) 05:07, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Gee, somebody better tell these guys then. --Kels (talk) 05:37, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
Duh, Indiana Jones found it in the second movie. Everyone knows that. Read a book, why don't you? God . . . Me!Sheesh!Mine! 15:35, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
Wow. 16:00, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
No, no, no, Sheesh, Indiana Jones found the Ark of the Lost Covenant in the FIRST movie. The second movie was about an Indian cult that stole people's children for slave labour. Get it right, dude... SJ Debaser 16:04, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
In my last exchange, he readily admitted that he made up the claim that American Indians had a universal greeting gesture. Of course, he challenged me to find contradictory cases, but I wasn't really that interested. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 16:32, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

AHHHHH HE's back at it!!! here NephilimFree continues to assert that all dogs have the same morphology. In the comments there are plenty of people trying to explain it to him, but he's not buying it. A shining example of how he cannot admit even the most base of errors. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 17:32, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, you have to save something back for the fifth film. Or perhaps a Tomb Raider game... postate 17:48, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

## Dating webpages- WTF?

I saw this article today about a dating website exclusive to "beautiful people." I hope 4chan finds out about these people. Corry (talk) 01:41, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't see the problem with it. I mean, do we all hate JDate because they discrimate over who joins? We don't bitch and demand a shutdown of women-only gyms because they restrict access... of course, try and start a men's club and listen to all the bitchingbut that's a different topic entirely. -RedbackG'day 04:12, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
"Is it elitist? Yes, it is, because our members want it to be," Hodge said when the company started out in 2005. "Is it lookist? Yes, it is, because our members want it to be. Is it PC? No, it's not, but it's honest." Hell, it's just a website. Apparently that loser site that advertises on TV all the time is offering "free communications" for a few days. Wow, a website that once in a while lets its members talk to each other for free? Only members that they pair up, of course. Oh, yeah, that's eHarmony.come in my face ħuman 04:32, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
There's another website that specialises in hooking up rich men with hot women. Perhaps there's a richness threshold after which you don't really care if your girlfriend is some sort of gold-digging whore as long as everyone else is totally jealous. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 13:58, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
What's the big deal? You angry because you can't get to hook up with these obviously wonderful human beings? Vulpius (talk) 15:26, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
There's also http://www.ugly.org/ which I doubt would generate the same response. And hundreds of other sites or groups will discriminate based on what the theme is. Why is is specifically worse that it's based on personal appearence? postate 17:45, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

## This Heroin Thing

So I think this non story about the so called New York Heroin guide is a great example of the stupity of the average person. I mean, where is the outrage when 5 million tax dollars goes to Iowa to create a national rutabega museum? But they're gonna bitch about \$32,000 to fund something that might save lives? It's like the whole abstinence only sex ed argument all over again. God, I hate stupid people... Can we have them all deported? SirChuckBA product of Affirmative Action 23:17, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

When Jpatt broke teh news, I was going to say "I hope he gets stuck with an improperly disposed of needle infected with AIDS", but...you know...appearances and such. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 05:42, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Dude. Not cool. -RedbackG'day 08:36, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Precisely why I didn't say it. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 17:46, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
As a friend of mine always says "if you can't be good, be careful". There is evidence that proper sex-ed works, there's evidence that needle-exchanges cut down incidences of HIV/AIDS. But this is the main problem with the neo-con/libertarian approach to drugs; DON'T BLOW TAX DOLLARS HELPING PEOPLE! Bah, spend it prosecuting people - at least then you can fill the prisons, which are privately owned and where prisoners can make decent slave labour (for profits!!!) and the rich, middle-class white boys who take their drugs out of the asses of \$1500-an-hour high-class escorts rather than \$12-an-hour hookers need not be bothered or finanically burdened. (sorry, I was reading quite an interesting conspiracy theory today that the "war on drugs" was about sending people to prison so they could work for cheap, seemed remarkably credible considering) postate 18:36, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Can you add that, at least as an EL, to War on Drugs? ħuman 22:07, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

## Anti censorship petition

There's a petition to fight religious UTube DMCA censorship. (From PZ) I am eating & honeychat 23:48, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

It's about fucking time! I remember about a year ago when all youtube videos of Mike Malloy and Thom Harttman got yanked because of bogus complaints. Gooniepunk2010 Oi! Oi! Oi! 23:51, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
Nice. Worth tagging the DMCA abuse by the Immoral vid onto this thread too. postate 18:15, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

## Breakfast

Freedom toast

While I sweat and slave over a rattling keyboard, frau C. is making us breakfast. Her musician's life is not an easy one, what with having to sleep in every morning... Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 14:59, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

French toast is one of those things I should like, based on the ingredients and cooking method, but I don't seem to like it and I have no idea why. Perhaps I need to add some spices or some parmesan to the egg mix? CrundyTalk nerdy to me 15:02, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
One word - paprika! Bob Soles (talk) 15:06, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
That's one way to go, but I prefer maple syrup. The toast is just a vehicle for it. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 15:10, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
...and use really good, crusty, thickly-sliced flavourful, coarse bread. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 15:11, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
day old or older slightly dry bread works great. eggs and a little milk, with maybe cinnamon, although you can sprinkle anything on it when served. Try Bosenberry syrup or Blueberry. Hamster (talk) 18:33, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
i prefer snozzberry Totnesmartin (talk) 18:36, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
That was a sweet eggy dough that got neglected in the pans overnight and overproofed, as you may see by the lack of a puffy top. Tasty all the same. I typically let my dough sit around for festering ever with the occasional punching and kneading, but when it comes time to pan it up and bake it, I try to do things more or less on time. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 18:47, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

## To all my friends on my beloved Rationalwiki

I have decided to bring my recent conversion before the masses, and allow them to judge my plight with a rational and dispassionate mind, but also a beating heart worthy of the greatest gentleman. Unfortunately NX thought I was trolling, and archived the 'offending' pages here. I am sorry. The fault lies with me. For how could anyone expect any better?

Over the last couple of years I have trolled RW, and for that I am sorry. Only now do I realise I was unreservedly in the wrong. My actions were inhumane, annoying and contrary to the high standards imposed by rational thought. For all this I apologise and plead for your forgiveness. Will you forgive me?

Merry Christmas and a happy new year! MarcusCicero (talk) 18:06, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Try restarting with a new name. Why connect yourself with your past? If you don't people may just assume that you're doing the "I'm sorry" game again. Totnesmartin (talk) 18:21, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
It's as much about rehabilitating ourselves as it is rehabilitating Marcus. Let's work together. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 18:28, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
I have no need to be "rehabilitated." I'm not the one in the vandal bin. Totnesmartin (talk) 18:32, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm with the Devonian - If MC really wanted to play nice he could just create a new user. I can see no reason whatsoever to let him play his games here. Bob Soles (talk)
A new user name would be perceived as just another "game" by the likes of Martin, who desperately needs to be rehabilitated. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 18:36, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Au contraire - when stealthBadger signed up yesterday in amongst a couple of MC socks, I gave him a standard RW welcome, and waited for him to prove/disprove his bona fides by his actions. I learned my leson after the Rose Pedals fiasco.Totnesmartin (talk) 18:42, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Martin, Martin, Martin. I shake my head, I really do. I understand that the damage I have done did not just affect my soul, or my character, but it also damaged other peoples capacity to forgive and understand. What would be proven by me coming back with a new username? I already have a sock who is a sysop. No, it is not in my interests to pretend to be someone I am not. And neither is it in yours. I wish to be forgiven, because I believe the redemptory process will help you as much as it will help me.
Cast aside your bitterness Martin! Allow it to wallow among the dogs, where it belongs! Join me in the refreshing light of reason and we may worship together at the feet of all that is good in this world. I have walked through the valley of death, and here I am among you, a mortal man.
Will you forgive me? Forgiveness is emancipatory for both the citizen and the criminal. MarcusCicero (talk) 18:52, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Why am I reminded of Gertrude's famous line from Act III Scene ii of Hamlet? Bob Soles (talk) 18:57, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
I have an open mind about this, and I am willing to give Marcus the benefit of a clean slate upon which to prove his bona fides. Considering his appeal, to afford him any less would be barbaric. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 18:59, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Sooooo boring..... Acei9 18:59, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Participate constructively or GTFO, please. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 19:03, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Fuck you Neveruse. . Acei9 19:04, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Agree with Ace I am eating & honeychat 19:06, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Neveruse, iI shall have your mop and bucket ere the cock cries. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 19:07, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

TOP, I have been more than forgiving to you. Although I had your administrative abuses well documented and ready for posting, I decided to give you the same benefit that I now afford to Marcus. How short sighted and obtuse of you to forget my forgiveness while you simultaneously deny the same to Marcus. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 19:10, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
TOP is my god. Acei9 19:11, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
--BobBring back the hat! 19:14, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
You're the troll now, Bob. The whole lot of you. Disgusting in your callous authoritarianism. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 19:19, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
As I mentioned elsewhere, anyone who thinks this latest plea by MC is genuine is a fucking idiot. If (and when) MC gets sysop rights back, I'm going to go on a RW vacation until he throws yet another wobbly and goes on a rampage and ends up back in the bin. RW is not a nice place when MC has a voice. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 19:19, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
What Crundy said. I think I need to go to the dentist. My teeth hurt. Acei9 19:23, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Neveruse: Go ahead, promote him back to sysop. I dare you. And when he fucks you all up again it's on your head. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 19:25, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
I do not think Neveruse is a 'crat. Probably a good thing... Acei9 19:28, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Please.--BobBring back the hat! 19:29, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

(undent, and change of subject - shameless cut & paste from Cyclops in some old book or other)

Terence O'Ryan heard him and straightway brought him a crystal cup full of the foamy ebon ale which the noble twin brothers Bungiveagh and Bungardilaun brew ever in their divine alevats, cunning as the sons of deathless Leda. For they garner the succulent berries of the hop and mass and sift and bruise and brew them and they mix therewith sour juices and bring the must to the sacred fire and cease not night or day from their toil, those cunning brothers, lords of the vat.

Then did you, chivalrous Terence, hand forth, as to the manner born, that nectarous beverage and you offered the crystal cup to him that thirsted, the soul of chivalry, in beauty akin to the immortals.

But he, the young chief of the O'Bergan's, could ill brook to be outdone in generous deeds but gave therefor with gracious gesture a testoon of costliest bronze. Thereon embossed in excellent smithwork was seen the image of a queen of regal port, scion of the house of Brunswick, Victoria her name, Her Most Excellent Majesty, by grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and of the British dominions beyond the sea, queen, defender of the faith, Empress of India, even she, who bore rule, a victress over many peoples, the wellbeloved, for they knew and loved her from the rising of the sun to the going down thereof, the pale, the dark, the ruddy and the ethiop.

Flowery language is fit for some venues better than others. That's my unvarnished opinion. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 19:31, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm no longer going to respond to the trolling comments by cabal members with regards to Marcus' rehabilitation. More of the same fascist regime that you can't stand to be called out on. It makes me sick. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 19:35, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
In case that was too lengthy, dear heart, it boils down to "He has bought his beer, and now must drink it." Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 19:40, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
My apologies, Mr. Cogswell. That wasn't directed at you. I believe Marcus has "drank his beer". Now let us see if he shall brew another one. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 19:43, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Neveruse: How many "second" chances does he need before you realise he is only here to cause trouble? The only reason he's back here pleading is because everywhere else has the common sense to block him indefinitely. Clearly to you drama is more important than integrity. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 19:45, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Aah. @Neveruse, now that you mention it, I was wondering how "cabal" applied to yours truly. No need; my apologies for thinking it is always about me. With that, I'd like to add, regarding MC, that trust is slowly built and soon tumbled. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 19:48, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Neveruse may have won the argument but I walked away with the turnips! Acei9 19:51, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
(EC) You are absolutely correct about the nature of trust. Let Marcus build it. Barring further provocations by the administration, time will indeed tell. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 19:52, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
MY FRIENDS! Please! Not on my account! Neveruse, my brave and every accomplished friend and ally, I appreciate your efforts. Your heart and soul needs no tribute; it is self evident. To everyone else - Good! Release your anger! It is only through this metamorphis that we may feel and breath and know what it is to free of fear and to forgive. My heart is on the floor; it is yours for trampling or for loving. I pray you choose the latter. If its the former... what can but a poor soul like me do? I ask only your forgiveness, not your love. Love may come later, let us not speak of that now. Let us be forgiven and one under the glorious radiant goodness that is the power of reason. I hope you had a merry Christmas and a happy new year!MarcusCicero (talk) 19:55, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
EC) Sorry! What "provocations"? The obvious thing for MC to rehab himself would be to sock up & behave himself. After a while and some good edits, he could reveal his identity & we'd all be amazed. I am eating & honeychat 19:56, 6 January 2010 (UTC) OH &
I'd be much more amazed if you could afford Marcus conciliation. As for the abuses, let's not go there. Certain administrators know exactly what I'm talking about. Let my conciliation towards them be an example they can follow. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 20:02, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
(EC) If anybody thinks that MarcusCicero saying he's reformed is true, then I have a bridge over a lake in middle of the desert for sale, also. However, if, MarcusCicero, you truely are reformed, then why not prove it by being useful? Write on-mission articles with an SPOV, show a sense of humor, de-red some links, correct some article grammar, etc, etc, etc? Only then would I buy this story. Until then, . Conservative Punk (talk) 20:06, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
My beloved Conservative Punk; how do you do, friend? I thank you for your kind suggestion, and it something I would love to take on board. For it is in the giving of good deeds, that man shall have salvation. Certainly, I will help out with the nitty gritty stuff, and enhance Rationalwiki both aesthetically and practically. I shall also increase the average donation that I normally give to this venerable website. Alas, I cannot do these things until I am removed from the vandal bin; you see, I am handicapped in this manner. I cannot contribute anything useful.
If any of you can find it in your heart, please considering unbinning me. Feel free to rebin me if I cease my redemption.
I hope you had a merry christmas and a happy new year! MarcusCicero (talk) 20:32, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Actual trolling aside, you'd sound more reformed if you'd stop talking like that already. ~ Kupochama[1][2] 21:13, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
This is boring. We have a jackass advocating for an asshat. I suspect they are both simply trolling. Me!Sheesh!Mine! 22:25, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
At last! Somebody else realises that neveruse is a troll. I let him do it because i see the twinkle in his eye - there's no anger there. Can people stop reacting please? Totnesmartin (talk) 22:31, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

## DFTT

So......how about that local sports team? Some weather we are having eh. Seen them inflatable bridges? Skateboards, thing of the past. Acei9 19:57, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Can there be any more boring "sport" to watch than DARTS! I am eating & honeychat 20:00, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
I prefer weather. Outside here it is a tepid -3° C, or 26° F. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 20:02, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
"Darts" is not a sport any more than golf is.--Tom Moorefiat justitia 20:11, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Curling, now THATS a sport. Acei9 20:16, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Only if you think scrubbing tough stains of the floor is good training CrundyTalk nerdy to me 20:32, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
At least its more energetic than darts training which I think consists of drinking beer and hanging around the pub. Acei9 20:36, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
I saw nothing to object to. The thing that really bothers me though is the lack of milk in glass bottles, and to a lesser extent the decline of home delivery. Did we lose a war or something? --Ask me about your mother 20:46, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
"Did we lose a war or something?! Thats not America! Thats not even Mexico!" Acei9 20:53, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I know. Simpsons did it. Hey, thanks for the schlafly debate style article. I just came across it today, and it's bloody funny. --Ask me about your mother 21:03, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
You're thanking me? I don't recall doing anything. Acei9 21:05, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
You're right actually. If you were as good as SuperJosh then you would have written Essay:The Debating Skills of Sir Andrew Schlafly.--Ask me about your mother 21:07, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
I just read that myself. Schlafly sure has some nuggets of wisdom! Acei9 21:14, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Oh, Concerned Resident, stop, you're making me blush! Heehee... SJ Debaser 21:36, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

### DFTT

Hello pleasant friends. Believe me, if I were any of you, I would create a DFTT topic also. It is perfectly natural and I still love and admire your precious individuality :) Now that we have cleared up this misunderstanding, would any of you like to join me underneath reasons radiant glow of forgiveness? Perhaps together, we can heal this divided community. You have my love and admiration :) MarcusCicero (talk) 21:10, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

## Ricky Gervais Show

I just started listening to this. I had seen and loved The Office and Extras more than most modern television, and thought The Invention of Lying was brilliant, and now these podcasts are routinely making me feel sick with laughter. This son of a bitch is the funniest person around these days.--Tom Moorefiat justitia 20:39, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

I hate him. I am eating & honeychat 20:46, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
I tried watching DVDs of the office but found it depressing rather than funny.--BobBring back the hat! 21:26, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
It, the Office, grows on you. It seems to be on 24-7 on various cable channels. I spent many a sleepless night channel surfing to avoid it. One recent night I watch a whole episode by accident. I've watched a few since. I now find it pretty funny and then depressing and then funny again. Besides the receptionist is really cute in a Marion the librarian sort of way. Me!Sheesh!Mine! 22:32, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
If you like Lucy Davis, she's also in Shaun of the Dead. So's Martin Freeman (the guy that plays Tim) but he's only in it for about a minute. SJ Debaser 12:25, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
I did not connect her with Shaun of the Dead. Great movie, that. Me!Sheesh!Mine! 14:09, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

## OK then

### DFTT

Is there one thing that I could realistically do that would build up a level of trust between us, to show my seriousness? What if I went into voluntary exile for three months? Would I be removed from the vandal bin after that time? MarcusCicero (talk) 22:29, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Acei9 22:38, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Yes, there is something you can do. You can stop complaining about the site via the "Reform Society" and make either contributions to articles or comments on talk pages that do not contain insults, mockery, or ad-homs directed at other users. You can also stop using your so-called wit to mock everyone else. Voluntary exile would be nice, but I doubt it would get you unbinned. I doubt, though, that you would regain anyone's trust because you have done so much damage already.
And that is all I have to say on the subject. Tetronian you're clueless 22:33, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Just drop this whole line as a show of faith. Stop requesting some sort of quid pro quo. Stop being such a needy twat. Me!Sheesh!Mine! 22:34, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

### DFTT

I appreciate your honesty. All I want is to be unvandal binned and I'll stop making such a scene. MarcusCicero (talk) 23:05, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Acei9 23:08, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

## Is there a philosopher in the bar?

Moved to Forum:Is_there_a_philosopher_in_the_forum?--Tom Moorefiat justitia 02:03, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

## Evolution, the music video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOLAGYmUQV0 Good god these songs are awesome.Ryantherebel (talk) 01:12, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

## Good news everybody

I am now back to sitting within a few feet of the server. RW took my vacation like a trooper with only a few issues and no seriously prolonged down time. tmtoulouse 01:24, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh, it is you. We forgot all about you. - π 01:25, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Strangely enough, I had a RW down about 30 minutes ago. (too many connections or something) But well done T. I am eating & honeychat 01:28, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Yeah I had that too. But Trent's back now, so no worries. Tetronian you're clueless 01:30, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
All I ever noticed was the typical slow loading while backup was running. Welcome home Trent! ħuman 02:10, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
A belated Merry Xmas and Happy New Year, Trenty, ole boyo! SJ Debaser 12:17, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

## abiogenesis , Dr. Jack Szostak

Anyone know of his work. Is this significant ? — Unsigned, by: Hamster / talk / contribs

"Dr. Jack Szostak, professor of genetics at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston, was awarded the 2009 Nobel Prize in medicine for discovering a key mechanism in the genetic operations of cells, an insight that has inspired new lines of research into cancer" this guy at Cornell? Sound like his bona fides are strong... ħuman 06:54, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Sounds significant. - π 06:58, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

## Conflict resolution

We can all learn something from this. Enjoy. Tetronian you're clueless 14:11, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

## Science denial on the rise?

Huff Post article. Just for your interest. I am eating & honeychat 07:51, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

That's a pretty good summary, but it didn't really prove how science denialism was "on the rise." Still, it was a nice read. Thanks Toast! Tetronian you're clueless 23:26, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Is it just me, or has HP been getting more and more shady lately? Google has been blocking me from accessing the site due to malware like 8 out of 10 times. --User:Theautocrat/Sig 23:40, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
The malware is irrelevant---just reading their pseudoscientific tripe will make your eyes bleed.-- -PalMD --Unhand me, scoundrel! 00:34, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
It could be "on the rise" if you take the Discovery Institute branching out into Global Warming following Climategate. It's getting more veracious, I'm sure, I was accused of making a "violent response" because she said something stupid like "if you read scientific papers, there's really no evidence for climate change" - so I promptly went to Science and ISI and brought up the first few I could get my hands on (I learned quite a bit from doing that). And the recent cold snap in the UK is probably making idiots people go "global warming my arse" (even though BBC news have been good to make it clear that there is a difference between weather and climate). postate 11:38, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

## Suggestion

I'd bring this up on talk pages but it wouldn't get nearly the same amount of attention. Basically I'm trying to contribute a bit more to articles rather than just being a freeloading little shit, and I was thinking - should Global flood have it's own namespace?

Case for: it'll make it obvious to visitors what the articles are, and it'll link them together nicely.

Case against: this has probably already been brought up and rebutted elsewhere.

SJ Debaser 13:23, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

I would say that it shouldn't. Namespaces are pretty big things used to differentiate perceptually different areas of the wiki and they are used sparingly. Also things outside of mainspace don't come up on regular searches. Consequently, I see no advantage to such a change and some disadvantages. Categories already serve the function you are looking for. Sorry to be so negative Josh.--BobBring back the hat! 13:32, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Ah, that's alright. Tbh I was thinking along the same lines really. Odd suggestion I know. never mind. SJ Debaser 13:36, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Not really. A category, yes, there are a lot of things on it and they need to be grouped. I'm not sure if they're organized amazingly well, though. postate 11:40, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

## Merry Christmas

Is it really? What happened to the holydaze template? ĴάΛäšςǍ₰ no really. 18:32, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Really. It's the eastern Orthodox Xmas. Their calendar is 2 weeks behind ours. (Georgian vs. Julian. Or something). --PsygremlinTala! 18:36, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
We're Gregorian, Julian is the one used by some Orthodox churches still. SJ Debaser 18:40, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

## Oldie but goodie

This. Enjoy. Tetronian you're clueless 01:18, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

this is better. --User:Theautocrat/Sig 01:28, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
I love that one. I laugh at a different part of it every time I read it. Tetronian you're clueless 01:31, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

## Purple

Totnesmartin (talk) 22:39, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm terribly sorry, I don't like purple. But oddly enough, the pen I am writing with right now is purple. I thought it was black for a few minutes but I just realized it is not. Tetronian you're clueless 22:41, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Purple is a fine color of ink, as long as you match it with large swirly handwriting. It's also decent for shirts, though admittedly poor for pants. ~ Kupochama[1][2] 23:02, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Isnt it funny that "The Colour Purple" was about black people. Acei9 23:04, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
(ECx2GRRRRR)You were writing and typing at the same time? You are Norman Mailer. Totnesmartin (talk) 23:06, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
True story for you. The mother of an old friend rented "The Color Purple", but took it back because it had too many black people in it. I'm not sure if the indian guy in the video shop appreciated her honesty, but she got a refund. --Thor's Mighty Phallus (talk) 23:11, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

I used to think the phallic euphemism purple sock was funny, then I grew up a little. Me!Sheesh!Mine! 23:31, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

@ Totnesmartin: I can write and type, but that means typing with only one hand, which is really, really slow. So usually I just stop for a second and type with two hands (without putting the pen down) and then resume writing. Tetronian you're clueless 23:36, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

I used to always confuse The Color Purple with Purple Rain. Corry (talk) 23:52, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Purple people eater?. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 18:20, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
There are still a few bottles of locally brewed IPA lingering in the fridge with purple labels. Must rectify that ASAP. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 18:30, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

## I'm watching W. Worst.Movie.Ever

I wanted to rent Capitalism: A Love Story, but that wasn't on DVD yet. ConservapediaEditor (talk) 03:40, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Should have checked out Will Ferrell's "Your Welcome America"--Thanatos (talk) 02:22, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
Is W. really worse than "An American Carol?" Gooniepunk2010 Oi! Oi! Oi! 02:26, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
Sorry but I quite enjoyed W. If it's your candidate for WME then you've missed out on a lot of crap. Bob Soles (talk) 21:15, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

## Well, this seems like a FABULOUS idea.

It gets hard to say that public school is a better option than homeschooling when the local school board toys with the idea of CANCELLING ALL THE MATH CLASSES AND MAKING THE KIDS LEARN MATH ONLINE ONLY. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 23:20, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Don't worry: " It is important to understand that no formal recommendations have been made to the Saline Board of Education regarding this option". You're still safe. Tetronian you're clueless 23:22, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
"The district even went as far as notifying the head of the teachers union last month that math teachers at the high school may be laid off." That puts the whole thing beyond the level of idle speculation and "what if." TheoryOfPractice (talk) 23:25, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Yes, but given the enormous uproar I doubt it would pass in the school board. Tetronian you're clueless 23:27, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Are all school superintendents in the US as wacky as superintendent Chalmers in the Simpsons? We don't have school supers in the UK. SJ Debaser 23:30, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
From personal experience I can tell you yes, they are. I remember in elementary (primary) school our superintendent would come in once a year and read a short story to us - in 5th grade he read us "The Lottery." Tetronian you're clueless 23:34, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Why not just halve the English requirements? Or reduce the history or gym classes? I learned more in a single semester of a math/science/engineering course than I did during my entire English career. Of course, that might not go down well with colleges... --User:Theautocrat/Sig 23:38, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
No, Theautocrat. The question you want to ask is "why not just tax property-owners, wealthy people and corporations more instead of being too chickenshit to raise the taxes required to keep the schools functioning?" Or "why not get the federal government to divert money from killing people into educating its own children?" TheoryOfPractice (talk) 23:46, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Point to TOP!! I am eating & honeychat 23:57, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
You got a sense of where this is coming from? More context, please. Is there a referendum on property tax on the horizon? Were heads tucked in the sand too long on this? Is it a "more money, or the bunny dies!" ploy? Inquiring minds & all...
BTW every so often I like to light up the youtube vid of hte Saline Fiddlers playing Olympic Reel with guest Mark O'Connor, who composed the tune. Arts doing OK there? Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 00:13, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

"Is there a referendum on property tax on the horizon? " There was, in November, a local referendum on raising taxes to fund schools. It didn't pass. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 00:18, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

They don't ask us here, they just jack up the taxes. Although, my graph of my property taxes is interesting, extra so because for some reason they went down 1% this year. They were pretty steady through the 90s, rising maybe 10-15%. They doubled while Bush was president, and now, amusingly, they have levelled off again with another Dem in the Maison Blanc. Coincydink? I think not! ħuman 00:35, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
My town had a education referendum s few years ago on whether or note to give a tax hike for education of literally \$50 per person. It failed by slightly less than 60 votes. --User:Theautocrat/Sig 01:16, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
Of course it didn't pass. Taxation works like thus: -
People: "We want stuff!"
Government: "We need money for stuff!"
People: "We're not going to give it to you!"
Government: "Okay then, whatever you want." *closes schools, hospitals, roads collapse*
People: "Hey!!!"
Government: "And this is our fault how?"
And so on. I think Thunderf00t did a vid on how much tax it takes per person in the US to pay for some things, he looked at the military (it's several hundred dollars or something, perhaps more) and then the CDC (which is, like, ten cents) and you just know which one "the people" would prefer to fund via a tax hike (if "neither" isn't available). postate 11:31, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
Ask my partner, who works for a public library in Northern Virginia. His county has been hit hard by the recession, because their tax base is very dependent on real estate, commercial properties in particular. Now, for pretty much any local government, police, fire and schools are top budget priorities, and understandably so. They've gone beyond "trimming" the library budget, beyond even "slashing" it. With what the county is saying is coming, even "they took an ax to the library budget" may be an understatement -- perhaps "they used a bazooka to shoot a chainsaw at the library budget" might work best if it gets as bad as they've warned. This, of course, has meant increased library fees and fines, and cut services. (Including, possibly, my partner's position.) When patrons complain, he tells them "talk to your county and state officials" and then thinks to himself "and remember this the next time you gripe about your taxes."
Another example: Northern Virginia (the counties surrounding Washington, DC -- roughly, Fairfax, Prince William, and parts of Loudoun and Fauquier) has terrible traffic problems. Several years ago, there was a referendum to raise sales taxes in NoVa to pay for improved roads. It passed handily in NoVa, but it was a state-wide referendum and the rest of the state is so effin' anti-tax, it was defeated. MDB (talk) 13:03, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
What we are seeing is the long-term results of the Reagan (and Bush) federal tax cuts - they strangled the federal budget, and the easiest thing to cut is "local aid". This leaves the states and towns stuck on their own to pay for local needs, and it's a lot easier to fight a local tax increase than a federal one. So we've been seeing 20-odd years of cuts in non-core school subjects (art, band, etc.), cuts in "luxury" public services like libraries, and increases in various fees across the board. ħuman 21:28, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

## A story, a non-traumatising one this time.

Last summer, I went down to Florida to take a holiday in Disney and Orlando. This is hardly unique, and thousands and thousands of families do this every summer. What makes this story somewhat unique is when I was preparing to leave for Typhoon Lagoon one morning.

On that particular day, I was dressed to go swimming. I was laying on a hotel bed waiting for my mother to come out of the shower so we could leave. In a similar state of boredom, my younger sister decided it would be a good idea to tackle her big brother laying on a bed. From my perspective, I saw someone enter the room, so, with my hands behind my head, I lift my body up to see who it is… just in time foe my sister to jump nose-first into my elbow.

6 months down the road, my little sister and I still playfully argue over whose fault it was that she broke her nose. Just yesterday, however, my mother received a very amusing letter from our insurance company. Apparently, the company wants to hold liable whoever it was who broke my little sisters nose, in short, me.

So now the company is searching to find out if the perpetrator is guilty of assault, or if the individual involved was negligent or reckless in breaking my sisters nose. I love it when this crazy and funny stuff happens. Javasca₧ Reticulating splines 20:51, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

They'll nail you for this. Your violent tendancies have finally caught up with you Java. I would flee to Tijunana to escape the heat. Acei9 21:13, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
I was bemused by this until I twigged that it was your health insurance company who want to sue you for assault or whatever. Once again I get down on my knees and give thanks for the NHS. Bob Soles (talk) 21:13, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
That is quite amusing. To someone like me, and like Bob, with Govt. health programs it sounds downright weird. Acei9 22:28, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
(EC)<daily mail mode>And your little sister too! Sicko! BRING BACK HANGING!!</daily mail mode> But, that's kind of odd, I mean, is this insurance to pay for the medical treatment or just "ooh, injury, lets get some cash"? Surely that sort of thing should cover accidents too, right? postate 22:34, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
My superconservative friend was riding his bike when he hit a rock. He subsequently crashed and broke his neck. The insurance company paid for the surgery, but then tried to sue him for negligence. That's the standard operating procedure. - Clepper

## It is no longer the sixth of January anywhere on the globe.

And yet, I'm still being wished a "Merry Christmas" on the recent changes. I do not like that. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 03:09, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

We still have Christmas decorations up in my office (my desk is always excluded) and I hate that.Rad McCool (talk) 03:17, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
Maybe Xmas was on the seventh this year? Anyway, we already fought and lost this battle, Santa rulzorz! ħuman 03:43, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
The Eastern Orthodox Christmas is the 7th of January until the year 2100, yea of narrow-Western European outlook. - π 03:49, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Ah. Thought it was the sixth. But that raises the question of why it's been up for 36 hours or so so far, with another few to go. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 04:32, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

To the best of my knowledge these are all the Holydaze. - π 04:35, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
what you have to do is put up a new one for the eigth, eg Alfred Russell Wallace's birthday or sumpfink. Totnesmartin (talk) 10:52, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
That would just mean we have two. - π 10:53, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
I thought they just moved on to the next one. Totnesmartin (talk) 11:04, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
The single-day ones run for a full 48 hours, so they are up "all day" in every time zone. Someday maybe someone can figure out a way for them to read the browser's time zone setting? ħuman 20:45, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
A single day runs for 48 hours? How ignorant of you. We all know each Time corner point rotates through the other 3-corner Time points, thus creating 16 corners, 96 hours and 4-simultaneous 24 hour Days within a single rotation of Earth. This is not difficult material here, people! DickTurpis (talk) 21:46, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
Time harmonic educator!
ħuman 04:58, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
It was mentioned about 2 posts above this one. Don't you guys read? It's the Orthodox Xmas. --PsygremlinTal! 10:54, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

## Starting a wiki...

Hi there, just wondering if anyone here knows what is required to start a wiki? Not that I'm thinking of doing it, it's sort of a silly dream at the moment. But there's not a 'biology' wiki that I could find, seems like there could be a demand for one. There is a biology wikia, with 48 articles and hardly any activity. --Seantalk 02:43, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Start one here whenever you like.--Tom Moorefiat justitia 02:45, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Wow, just looked at Biology Wikia and 'ADP' is a page filled with the word penis. I think vandals got to it, then realised no one cared. There's more joke articles than genuine articles. --Seantalk 03:09, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Contact Wikia about it, they are still their wikis. - π 03:22, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
This is an extract of an email I sent in response to a similar question.--BobBring back the hat! 08:53, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Err: "This" ? I have just eaten & stiltontalk 09:11, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Sorry. This :-) --BobBring back the hat! 09:40, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
I've found WikiDot is a good one. Although the syntax is very different to Media Wiki and it's not as powerful, it's free, reliable and has quite a degree of customization, Wikia sites to me always look like childish knock-offs of Media Wiki but WikiDot can look quite professional and stylish. postate 15:01, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Some people consider google pages to be a wiki. You can edit and cross-link, but it's very un-media-wiki-like. Sterile automobile 00:34, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Thank you for your help. I have a domain name, I just need to figure out what to do with it! --Seantalk 01:04, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

## Who cares, really?

As warned on my talk page, I broke the 50k edits mark tonight. Feel free to mock me for having no life whenever and wherever you want. I think the 65+K block/16 number would be cooler, but that's so long away I hope I don't get there. ħuman 09:14, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Relevant to the above section? Judging from the hour where you are (about 4 - 5 AM?) you wanna find something to do in the night IMHO. I have just eaten & stiltontalk 09:39, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
RE: Above Section. Sorry, thought that this was under the Abortion WIGO page OOPS! I have just eaten & stiltontalk 09:42, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
perhaps we should vandal bin you for your own good. How do you tell how many edits you've had? Me!Sheesh!Mine! 15:53, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Click on "My preferences" and you should see it. Well "your preferences" but you get the idea.--BobBring back the hat! 16:04, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Wow Human, that's very, very impressive. Also, if you check out Rationalwiki:Active users, you can see more evidence of Human's awesomeness. Tetronian you're clueless 16:17, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Put it on your resume, dude! Congrats! Sterile automobile 17:27, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Have a nice party with your mannequins. ГенгисYou have the right to be offended; and I have the right to offend you. 19:57, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Thought it funny that this guy's real name is TK. Heh, funny to me anyway. Acei9 03:49, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

## A thought about the teabaggers

It seems the teabag movement attracts alot of the right-wing libertarian crowd. The Ron Paul types. I noticed these are also the groups most likely to be associated with the 9/11 "truth" movement. Has there been many of the "truthers" at these tea parties? If so, I can't imagine them getting much sympathy from the more mainstream teabaggers; after all, their basically going around making the case that bin Laden is innocent. Trying to get them to show up in droves to these protests might be an interesting way to create internal friction within the movement. It'd be fun to watch, anyway. Anyone have any thoughts on this? DickTurpis (talk) 16:27, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

I've heard that same argument applied to the birthers. In both cases I doubt it would have any effect on the movement, since it has shown itself to be very willing to consort with the lunatic fringe. Tetronian you're clueless 16:40, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Crank magnetism, of course. Your average teabagger will have an extreme distrust of government and a paranoia that it's too big. Your average truther will have an extreme distrust of government and a paranoia that it's too big. The memes are very, very compatible. postate 16:51, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
That's my point, they are very compatible in some ways, and while the teabaggers will soak up the birthers without much trouble as they're both just simply anti-Obama, the truther movement claims George W. Bush carried out the 9/11 attacks, and henceforth it wasn't Islamic terrorists. This doesn't sit well with most people anywhere on the political spectrum, particularly not your standard conservative (can you imagine Andy getting behind this?). Of course, if the truthers claimed Obama was behind the 9/11 attacks it'd be a different story altogether, but even they can't try to pull that one off. Meanwhile, since the truthers and baggers agree on many of the other issues, it would be interesting to see substantial truther showings at tea parties. It could stand to discredit or divide it. Either would be beneficial. DickTurpis (talk) 17:26, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Obama behind 9/11, that'd be Conspiracy Golddust - although far-fetched even by some standards. Anyway, I imagine it could be compatible with some anti-Islamic values, as fairly moderate conspiracies for 9/11 state that it was an Islamic threat that the government allowed to happen - however I think that one seems to me to lie on the liberal side, don't know why, it just does (perhaps because the motive in that case is "so we can go into other countries and steal some oil"). postate 18:02, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Actually Obama/9-11 might fly. There is already "Obama is a Muslim", "Obama has links to terrorists", "Obama is a threat to the US". Obama 9-11 isn't that big a step.--BobIt's cold! 18:18, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
wouldn't be any stupider than this. Totnesmartin (talk) 18:36, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Tony Blair caused Dunblane. Palm meet face, face meet palm. I have quite a sizeable handprint on my face now, thankyouverymuch. postate 18:40, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Interestingly, if you google "Obama caused 9/11" you get quite a lot of hits. I couldn't find a really serious one though.--BobIt's cold! 19:53, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
I suppose the fact that you can't find a serious one is reassuring... postate 19:55, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
has anyone had a snigger at the urban dictionary meaning of teabagging ? Hamster (talk) 05:24, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I think so, yes. Twelveteen times. Eleventeen times. A billionzionzorsz times. ħuman 05:27, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

## Back at uni

It's just lovely being back at university. However, we have to use coal as we have no electricity and/or gas. As I type, my laptop is being powered by a rodent running in a wheel, with that energy harnessed into electricity using a small generator from 1976. SJ Debaser 17:45, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Coal! You've got it lucky. When I were a lad we had to burn wet wood which we first dried by rubbing it with our hair.--BobIt's cold! 18:12, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Tough times, bro, tough times. SJ Debaser 18:12, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Currently I think the warmest place near me will be the liquid nitrogen storage unit. postate 18:16, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Running your laptop from a rodent? When I was your age, I worked out all the calculations with slate and pencil and whistled down a phone to connect to the internet! Professor Moriarty 18:17, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Phone? You were lucky. We can to use tin cans and hairy string. Totnesmartin (talk) 19:45, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Are we the only ones doing Monty Python here Totnesmartin?--BobIt's cold! 20:40, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Slate and pencil? Lucky bastard. I had to use a piece of charcoal on the back of a shovel. Incidentally, my mother attended the last one-room schoolhouse in our state - that's 1st through 12th grade in one classroom (it's now a museum). On cold days, she rode to school in an unheated road-converted railroad caboose pulled by a farm tractor. Sadly, this is not hyperbole. So you can imagine how much slack I got cut as a kid. --Martin Arrowsmith (talk) 00:54, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Coal? Isn't that the least "green" fuel ever, short of burning small children (and only slightly less evil)? Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 21:06, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Kind of. There are multiple types fo coal. Anthracite actually is a very clean and effective fuel, but it's so rare most people just use bituminous, which is like burning puppies. The Emperor 21:38, 9 January 2010

Mmm... burning puppies. It warms my heart to hear you say that. Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 21:45, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Not as tasty as burning guppies... ħuman 02:49, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Don't worry, there's also lignite, used in coal-fired power plants. That's like burning kittens! --User:Theautocrat/Sig 03:00, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Some new technologies can actually use coal in a much cleaner way and new power stations can sequester the CO2. Of course old stations are still "dirty" as is most domestic usage. In our yurt we use finest Welsh anthracite in a Coalbrookdale stove and it's a delight compared to an open fire. ГенгисYou have the right to be offended; and I have the right to offend you. 10:17, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
*looks outside* Hmmm... 36C in the shade... tarmac melting again... maybe dial the aircon down a few more notches. Seriously tho, you guys up north have my sympathies. --PsygremlinPraat! 10:37, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
It's lovely being back at uni, mostly because I have a double bed and ensuite. EddyP (talk) 11:26, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

## Can we lay off picking on TK over at Wikipedia

I really don't want to name names, but I really don't like our opinions of Conservapedia and TK to spill over onto the Wikipedia talk pages. In my opinion, Wikipedia is a noble project but has been hurt by partisan bickering on many topics and articles. Can we not contribute to this? If TK violates Wikipedia rules, then call him out on it (he really should not be editing his own articles), but Wikipedia is not the place to confront him about his plagiarism (here is, and Conservapedia is :) ). ConservapediaEditor (talk) 06:37, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

However, he is on record at WP for saying that admins are beholden to the commandments and it was fair to point out what a lying little shit he is. I also gave him the chance for right of reply (which after all, we'll never get at CP). He declined, so I've commented elsewhere on that scumbag's actions. Case closed as far as I'm concerned - we proved he lied, and that's fine by me. --PsygremlinFale! 10:41, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
We'd debate him he if he was up for debate here (he left in a huff because we wouldn't sysop him), and of course there's no point arguing at CP as everyone knows. Basically, he's had it coming. Totnesmartin (talk) 10:47, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
He did respond to comments on his talk page here during December; maybe he would again. Wikipedia's article about Conservapedia isn't the place to pursue vendettas - it's for verifiable NPOV info about CP, & its talk page is for discussion of the article content only. Until somebody in the mainstream media writes about sysop behaviour at CP, it's not notable content for the WP article. WeaseloidMethinks it is a Weasel 12:45, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

## Click the button

This is full of win. Not as fun as this, but still. -RedbackG'day 11:19, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure which scarier... that somebody made that page, or that you found it. --Psygremlin講話 12:37, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Unfortunately the goatmixer has broken down. It looks like those sound effects have been removed from the web. We'll have to either find some more or delete it. WeaseloidMethinks it is a Weasel 12:50, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

## I really hope this doesn't suck

The A-Team movie. It definitely won't be as good as the show, because the show was simply so cheesy and 80s it can't be beaten. SJ Debaser 12:48, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

They did pretty good with the Get Smart movie, although of course they couldn't replicate the show's "so fucking corny that it's hilarious" effect. Tetronian you're clueless 14:27, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
I didn't see that, although I wanted to. Steve Carell's pretty funny. The A-Team movie won't be anything like the show, it'll just be another action movie. Probably worth seeing though. SJ Debaser 16:58, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
There's a certain je ne sais quoi about a firm, young carrot TV shows that's very hard to translate to cinema - they either overdo what made it good and ruin it (The Avengers) or drop it completely and lose the whole point of the thing (Miami Vice). There are probably only a half-dozen or so good adaptations. Totnesmartin (talk) 17:12, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
I have to agree with you. I haven't see the Miami Vice TV show, but I know it was up there with the other awesome 80s TV-era shows. But the film was absolute shite. At least if the A-Team sees a resurge in popularity when it comes out in June I can say I watched it before it was cool. SJ Debaser 17:15, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
I dunno, if it's referred to by Family Guy I think it officially becomes popular. Then again, maybe that's just the Internet kind of popular. ~ Kupochama[1][2] 18:37, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm guessing it's the internet kind of popular - for example, I've heard "bird is the word" a gazillion times on the internet after it was in that Family Guy episode, but never once in real life. Tetronian you're clueless 19:37, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
It was in Full Metal Jacket... does that count as real life? ħuman 20:53, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Yes, except that that was years ago... Tetronian you're clueless 03:39, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
So long as it doesn't take itself seriously (and the trailer makes it look like it really doesn't) it'll rock. I was a bit skeptical about Liam Neeson, but what the hell, it actually works! postate 20:16, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

## Dammit

I had a great idea for a comic about two years ago, that I still wanna work on once I get my skill high enough (no sense doing it while I still suck). Great little idea, lots of fun. And then I revised the idea to make it more serious, no problem. And now I find the webcomic Narbonic, read through it's archives. Twice. AND HUGE CHUNKS OF IT MATCH THE STORY I WANTED TO DO ORIGINALLY! And even worse, what I changed it to matches huge chunks of what the whole "Dark Reign" BS they've been doing over at Marvel, just from a ground floor PoV. WTF people, can't I have ideas that are mine? (also, go read Narbonic, it's friggin' awesome, and Phil Foglio approved). --Kels (talk) 00:19, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

The same thing happened to me once. I had this great idea for a kind of ape that would be smaller but with a tail and which would be pretty much the most awesome animal one can imagine, but someone had already come up with the monkey. Boy was my face red!--Tom Moorefiat justitia 00:31, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Simple solution. Make them anyway, but add lasers! Everyone loves laser monkeys! --Kels (talk) 00:37, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Set the comic in space and add hot blue chicks. No one will catch the resemblance. --User:Theautocrat/Sig 04:42, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Don't worry, there is no such thing as originality any more. I got a brief to sketch an album cover for a friend's mini project and after he described it, I was "oh, you mean like this" and he was "DAMMIT! Is there anything that those goths on DeviantART haven't done first?!!?!?!". So really, originality is all about hiding your sources, or at least disguising them enough, or possibly just marketing them to the people who don't really care. postate 15:06, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

I thought of Spore (though not the name) fully ten years before it got made into a mediocre video game. Will Wright ruined it. My Spore would have totally rocked. Me!Sheesh!Mine! 15:49, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

I wrote a couple of guitar riffs I was really chuffed with, and then Adore by the Pumpkins came out and the opening track's first riff is strikingly similar, so that was that one out. The other one sucked. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 21:38, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
I work in the opposite direction - I try to copy a cool riff or rhythm, and by the time I'm playing something credible it's totally different than what I'm "copying". ħuman 23:22, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
My brother and I had an idea in the early eighties for a phone that would play tunes instead of ringing, then you could sell new tunes to the owners in perpetuity. It was just another stupid joke to us... Totnesmartin (talk) 23:31, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
And the guy who developed a concept for "a portable digital music player with an interactive screen" in the 70s is kicking himself now... postate 00:21, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

As always Sam Goldwyn said it best: "I had a monumental idea this morning, but I didn't like it". If you're not familiar with the quotes of the great man, change that, "include yourself out". DogPMarmite Patrol 07:27, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

## Cold weather payment

Two letters just dropped through our letterbox: we's getting £25 cold weather payments. The Welfare state works (for me anyhow). I have just eaten & stiltontalk 09:00, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Your government gives you money because it's particularly cold?--Tom Moorefiat justitia 09:05, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
"Old age pensioners" is what we used to call Toast and her girlfriend. And, yeah, if it's fucking cold, they should get some extra money to get by. Not sure where I'll get mine (although this winter has not been so bad yet, all above zero F unlike last year and year before). ħuman 09:11, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Right, if you EC me once more, I'm going to... well, I dunno; nothing probably. We're expecting a week full of 43º (~110F) days. Where's my government cheque to help subsidise the cost of ice-cream and cold beer? Out of curiosity, just how cold does it have to get before the government starts hurling money at people? -RedbackG'day 09:14, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Right, if you EC me once more, I'm going to... well, I dunno; nothing probably. Yup "You get a Cold Weather Payment of £25.00 for every weeek when the average temperature is freezing or below freezing." I have just eaten & stiltontalk 09:15, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
And should Redback get a cold beer checkque every week the tempos are above 90 bpm? ħuman 09:17, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
No, I should get a cold beer cheque merely because I'm so damned good looking. -RedbackG'day 09:19, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
And about a month ago we got £125 winter fuel allowance. I have just eaten & stiltontalk 09:20, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
It dropped below 40 degrees F here in Florida recently. I want some money.--Tom Moorefiat justitia 09:21, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Fuel allowance? What, do you need to go out and buy coal or something? -RedbackG'day 09:24, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
No, we have teh gas & 'lectric supplied, we're surprisingly modren here. I have just eaten & stiltontalk 09:28, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Didn't the Bush government send cheques to all US taxpayers last year because, well, it thought it was good idea? Or have I got that wrong?--BobIt's cold! 16:27, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, they did. F'ing morons. ħuman 07:49, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Fuck you people. Supposed to be the middle of fucking summer here and today it rained all fucking day and didn't get above 15 fucking celcius. Fucking outrageous. Oh yeah, did I say fuck yet? Well fuck. Acei9 07:59, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Fucking even my fucking beer is sticking to my cunting lips. Time for scotch and a bad fucking attitude. Acei9 08:00, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

## Should dprjones press charges?

Ok, for those of you not following the youtube debates, PCS has now filed fraudulent DMCAs TWICE, in addition to literally STEALING MONEY FROM DYING CHILDREN! And yet dprjones is still letting him off the hook if he leaves? That seems wrong to me (did a video response stating my opinion, hope dprjones notices: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKg4PpBaEZc ). Opinions?--Mustex (talk) 04:59, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm afraid that I'm suffering from UAoPO (Unknown Acronym or Person Overload).--BobIt's cold! 13:10, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
PCS is short for "Posterboy for Creationist Stupidity." Its a nickname for VenomFangX. The whole story is on his page.--Mustex (talk) 15:24, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
with the latest VFX video claiming DPR is a pedophile and encouraging others to report his foul condict to CPS I would say that either a "vacation" with men in white coats is in VFX future or a court date. Hamster (talk) 21:21, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
I believe that dpr should press charges. PCS has now committed perjury at least twice (at least by US law), and has now opened himself up to a libel case (by Canadian or UK law). PCS is causing too much harm, and I think that a serious legal slapping is the only thing that can possibly shock the boy back in to some level of sanity. Failing that, at least he'd be financially obliterated (this kind of libel and disclosure of dpr's home address would be pretty serious matters) or locked-up, thus removing him from teh interwebs. There is also the possibility of his being prosecuted for stirring up a lynch mob, since it's difficult to see any other reason behind his libel and subsequent revealing of dpr's home address. --Ask me about your mother 19:03, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
It's long past time for PCS to learn a brutal lesson. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 19:11, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
YouTube user justinowen42 has a video up in which he reads a statement from Venom's father. According to the statement, Venom's father says, quote: "Shawn's heart is made of gold but his mind is not." He then goes on to address his (Venom's father's) and his wife's dismay at Venom's actions claiming, among other things, mental illness and brainwashing by Kent Hovind. I'd do the linky thingy, but YT is blocked at work here. The Foxhole Atheist (talk) 19:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

## Just Registered

I spent many months lurking at RW and I finally decided to contribute. I've mostly dealt with Apollo hoaxers and fighting against astrology bullshit. I encourage people to be skeptic and not to accept everything they hear as true but to most people out there this means "Scientist should not be trusted and random crap at YouTube should be accepted as truth". Mr.Orange (talk) 13:54, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Hullo and welcome! I only hope your welcome isn't marred by accusations of sockpuppetry, like mine was :)
And does anybody really believe in astrology anymore? I mean, anybody? It was debunked as a science many centuries ago. Even in my time (The late 18th century) it was losing credibility. EdmundBurke (talk) 16:26, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
sadly millions still do - we have hardly anything about astrology here so please fire at will. Totnesmartin (talk) 17:14, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Russel Grant was on Celebrity Mastermind and as soon as he sat down, I couldn't help myself but blurt out "go on then, predict the questions". postate 20:15, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Welcome, Mr. Orange!--Tom Moorefiat justitia 20:26, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Is Nancy Reagan still alive? --Gulik (talk) 21:05, 11 January 2010 (UTC) (And most newspapers around here have a horoscope column.)

## Sidewiki

I don't know if anybody has experimented with Google sidewiki or if we have spoken about it before, but it seems to be an interesting idea. It allows you to leave your own comments in a sidebar on other sites' web pages.--BobIt's cold! 17:55, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

It's an interesting thought, but I'm not sure how many websites will go for it (especially political blogs, many of which already censor their comments sections). Tetronian you're clueless 19:35, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
You can already comment on the search results, although having just looked at some search results, they seem to have deleted a lot of them. postate 20:23, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Actually, I don't think you can switch it off. If you've got the google toolbar it's enabled by default. As you say Tetronian, there are many political blogs and wikis who would prefer to censor comments. Obviously nobody here who had been blocked from any other wiki would want to use it to make comments after being blocked, but I imagine that some people will use it in that manner.--BobIt's cold! 20:46, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Ah. And here is another cute trick - once somebody has made a comment, other users can vote the comment up or down. Have they been watching us?--BobIt's cold! 21:22, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Haha, I have always thought the WIGO format was a novel idea. I never though anyone else would pick up on it, though. Kudos to whichever clever RWian invented it. Tetronian you're clueless 03:21, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Comments have been rated up/down for much longer than the current WIGO system. Anyone seen if RW has attracted any yet? postate 11:31, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
There are no sidewiki comments on RW yet.--BobIt's cold! 11:33, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
There's one now. I have just eaten & stiltontalk 11:42, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I can't seem to see any on CP (not even the Obama article) or ASK yet either. I guess that people are still learning about it.--BobIt's cold! 11:37, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Trouble is it's page linked rather than site linked. I rarely hit the Main Page of any WIKI so wouldn't see 'em. I have just eaten & stiltontalk 11:46, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Maybe we should add some to their main entry point pages, like Evolution and Obama? CrundyTalk nerdy to me 11:47, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Heh! I've put one on Recent Changes. I have just eaten & stiltontalk 11:54, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I see your comment on the main page and I've voted it up - but I can't see anything on recent changes.
CP Recent changes? I have just eaten & stiltontalk 12:00, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Nope. Can't see it there either. The edit option is present though. Strange. Is RC technically different?--BobIt's cold! 12:04, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Just put something on Teflpedia's recent changes and that worked.--BobIt's cold! 12:08, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
EC) Bugger. It's still there for me but Screengrab won't include the sidewiki sidebar. I have just eaten & stiltontalk 12:09, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I get nothing on Teflpedia. Strange. I have just eaten & stiltontalk 12:10, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Could you try TP mainpage?--BobIt's cold! 12:12, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

(unindent) An interesting thought has occurred. If you copy parts of the text on the page it makes them as comments of this section. We could do a rebuttal of cp:evolution, pointing out flaws and making comments right next to the article for all to see. - π 12:12, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Similar thoughts had occurred to me.--BobIt's cold! 12:14, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Of course this would simply be in the interest of providing additional comment or observation. Not for the purposes of vandalism or abuse.--BobIt's cold! 12:17, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Totally fed up with Edit Conflicts. Sulkin' I have just eaten & stiltontalk 12:18, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I was thinking of mostly putting in the rest of the quotes that Ken has deceitfully left out. - π 12:19, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
The way this is set up it looks like it will be the Wild West for a while - but I imagine that earlier comments will have a greater chance of staying up as they will get voted on first.--BobIt's cold! 12:23, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Just reading up on what they are prepared to accept complaints about. All reasonable stuff from google including:
• Please note that just because you disagree with someone’s point of view does not mean it violates any policies.
Which seems very fair.--BobIt's cold! 12:37, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
There's several on CP's Main Page - you have to click the Next button, It's @ the bottom on the right - not exactly shouting at you. I have just eaten & stiltontalk 12:40, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
That's weird - I'm sure I didn't see them when I looked half an hour ago.--BobIt's cold! 12:45, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

## Brave New World

I just read it for like the 4th time today. It's fucking awesome, so I make a point to read it every year or so. Even though I don't agree with all of Huxley's message, BNW is still (in my humble opinion) the most imaginative philosophical novel ever written. I strongly recommend it, especially as a companion to 1984. Tetronian you're clueless 19:33, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I have read it a few times myself. Its one of the "Big Three" dystopia novels with 1984 and Fahrenheit 451. Acei9 19:39, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
I would make that a "Big 4" because of A Clockwork Orange. But yeah. Tetronian you're clueless 19:51, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
I never really cared for Farenheit 451, it seems way too simplistic to me. A better book on the same theme would be A Canticle for Leibowitz, which has a bit more meat to it. --Kels (talk) 21:28, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
I wasn't a 451 fan either to be honest. Acei9 21:46, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
BNW is decent, but gravely over-rated. Huxley is at his best in satirising contemporary social mores such as in Point Counter Point or Crome Yellow. Eyeless in Gaza is another fantastic book which must surely be the battle cry of every anti-cynic on the planet. Huxley was somewhat obsessed with the reconciliation of science and human rights; he had all sorts of far fetched fears about 'social engineering', which were even a bit leftfield back then. Although its visionary, I think all BNW serves to do is categorise Huxley into a dystopian writer, which he certainly was not. He wrote far better novels than BNW. Even from a merely technical viewpoint, it was constrained and somewhat forced - there was no natural flow like in the truly exceptional Point Counter Point.
Fahrenheit 451 is excellent but people have to overlook Bradbury's innate writing flaws. He was poor in plot development and in creating realistic and believable characters, but the overall concept was superb. A fine novel.
Tetronian, I'd recommend branching out from BNW as its an outrageously over-rated book. You should try his sequel if nothing else (Island) EdmundBurke (talk) 21:53, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
I think the issue I had with 451 had a lot to do with the fact that while it was a good idea to base a story around, he didn't base much of a story around it. Characters ended up reduced to simply explaining the great idea the story was based on and came off as massively unrealistic and unrelatable. That works great in an essay, but not for a short novel. I did like how he tied it in to a much better story in The Martian Chronicles. --Kels (talk) 21:57, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I'd agree with you there alright. The actual plot was pants, but the concept was brilliant. One simply has to overlook these things to get at the raw genius of his message though - censorship doesn't come from above, it comes from below. EdmundBurke (talk) 22:14, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Why the fuck has We not been mentioned yet? I found We to be better than BNW, which was better than Fahrenheit 451. 1984 is the best, though, if only because it is so much more popular and has had a far greater impact on political discourse and everyday life than the others put together. --User:Theautocrat/Sig 00:43, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
@Burke: I've read Island, I wasn't too impressed with it. I have yet to read Point Counter Point though. I see what you mean about some of BNW being rather forced, but I still maintain that most of his arguments are presented in an ingenious and entertaining manner. He may not be a dystopian writer, but I don't think BNW is as overrated as you say. Then again, to quote some Heinlein, "I am only an egg." Tetronian you're clueless 03:18, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I go with Battle Royale as my dystopia novel of choice.--Thanatos (talk) 03:34, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
What is We? Am I missing something here?
@Tetronian, Yeah, Island isn't much to shout out about. But you forget, we are all eggs just trying to do the best we can! Personally BNW irks me. Yes there are some intelligent passages but I think his central theme is over-stated. And it has suceeded in casting his reputation for most people, who think BNW was his only book of worth even though Point Counter Point was one of the best books of the inter war period! EdmundBurke (talk) 14:58, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I'll have to get my hands on Point Counter Point. Admittedly you are right that most people know Huxley for BNW, but I still think that despite its preachiness it is still a pretty good read. Tetronian you're clueless 17:43, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

## How does one wrap their mind around something like this?

Some of you have, obviously, seen that I posted the retirement templates up on my pages earlier this morning (6 hours ago) and have been wondering what's up. While I hate talking about my problems, this one is going to haunt me no matter what I do, so why not talk about them amongst the community here, where nobody but me has a personal stake? Bluntly put, I awoke this morning to a phone call from my mom. Appearantly, last night my sister was finishing up work with a co-worker when he grabbed the keys to lock up, locked the doors, and raped her. She was in the hospital all night and into this afternoon.

Needless to say, amongst everything else, my sister and I have always been very close, and this whole thing has had me, and continues to have me, in a state of emotional shock mixed with just about every other negative emotion imaginable: anger, rage, saddness, depression, etc. I am unable to comprehend one ounce of it. Part of me wants to deny it; to put myself into a state of dillusion about it. The other part wants to go to the jail where this fucker is and beat him and strangle him to death in the most brutal ways imaginable. None of these thoughts, obviously, are the least bit rational. But how can one be rational over a situation like this?

So, the part where the folks here come in, is that I need to know the one answer. The answer which seems easiest and yet is so trivial. The answer which is the first step to healing. And the answer I need is to this: How does one even begin to wrap their minds and emotions around this situation? Lord Goonie Hooray! I'm helping! 00:38, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

That's terrible, and I'm so sorry for your sister and for yourself.
There's no easy way to get through things like this. You just have to take it one bit at a time. One minute at a time, one hour at a time. Eventually, one day at a time. Concentrate on what can be done - contacting her work, taking care of her house and pets, going to your own work or school. Doing things may help make you feel better.
Know that you always have a place of sympathy and support here.--Tom Moorefiat justitia 00:44, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Jesus Christ. Gabe, I'm so fucking sorry to hear about this. The only answer I can come up with is: slowly, I would imagine, with the help of a lot of love and compassion and talking and just being with friends and family and people who care. I figure that probably sounds trite, but faced with the sheer meanness and horror that life presents us with sometimes, I'm not sure what else there is to say. As we say in French: bon courage. You and your family will need it; but you will all get through this. Stay strong. Lots of love, --Paul. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 00:48, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Also, Gabe, Alice Sebold's Lucky is about her experiences being raped. I am told it has helped other people understand what they're feeling.--Tom Moorefiat justitia 00:50, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Shit Gabe, man I really feel sorry man, that is fucking awful and I can't begin to imagine how this feels for you, your family and especially your sister. Some people are fucking animals. Personally I would resort to violence but that isn't for everyone. If there is anything I can do, no matter what, just flick me an email - I sent you one this morning already. Again though dude, that is horrendus news and my thoughts are with you and your family. Acei9 01:01, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm sure that there is nothing I could say or do that could take away your pain and anger other than my thoughts will of course be with you and your family.Rad McCool (talk) 01:23, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
You've already made the first important step - you've talked about it. I cannot imagine what you're going through and have little to offer beyond the usual platitudes except, maybe, the old saying - This too shall pass. Time is a great healer. Serious wounds take serious time and there will always be the scars but one day you, and your sister, will emerge stronger and better; trust me on this one. In the mean time, hang in there. Bob Soles (talk) 01:26, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Take it one day at a time. Fuck, real scumbags out there. You, your sister and your entire family have all my sympathy and spiritual support. I'll pray for her recovery--Thanatos (talk) 01:37, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Agree with Rad, there's not much we can do here but sympathize and offer what support we can. Bob is definitely right, time, acceptance, and a willingness to seek help are really the best way. --Kels (talk) 01:40, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Tom said most of what I think, I think. I love you and please take care of yourself and your sister. As I said, feel free to call any time. ħuman 01:43, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Dude, sorry about what happened. My sister and I are also very close, and if something like that ever happened to her, my first inclination would be violence. There is a period of time that this will haunt you and your family, to be sure, but try to keep a cool head about it during these first crucial days. Like I said, my first inclination would be violence, but that is not my final resolute inclination once the dust has settled. Shoot me an email if you so choose to discuss, and again, I'm sorry that happened. Aboriginal Noise with 4 M's and a silent Q 01:52, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
short answer, You dont. You tell yourself that there WAS nothing you could do to preventit happening, and there IS nothing you can do to fix it, Nothing that happened was your fault. You be supportive and recognise that she may have problems simply being with men , and needs to overcome that. She will need more support to testify at any trial. A therapist may help her when she is ready for that. Good luck . Hamster (talk) 01:59, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
the police , or hospital should be able to give you resources for rape crisis centers or other counselling. If you need more drop me a message of your city and I will see what I can come up with.
Hamster (talk) 02:05, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Shit, Goonie, I am sorry to hear about that. I hope you and your family manage to recover from this. ĵ₳¥ášÇ♠ʘ No comment 02:24, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree with all of the above. Take care of your family, and make sure to take care of yourself as well. Sterile automobile 02:34, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Be strong, Goonie. It won't be easy, but take it one moment at a time. You family and your friends (including us) are there for you, don't be afraid to lean on them. Tetronian you're clueless 03:37, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
That is absolutely horrible. I hope that the sorry sack of shit spends many years in prison finding out what it feels like, preferably with a make-shift weapon.
From your sister's point of view the thing she is going to be feeling the most is the betrayal of trust, especially as it was someone she knew. It will take her a long time to be able to build that up again and you will need to be conscious of that.
I hope you and your family can get through this. I wish there was something I could do to help and if you can think of anything I'll do it. All the best. - π 03:39, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
These guys have already said pretty much all of it. It sucks, the prompt feelings are no fun, and it will come back to bite again and again. The legal system will add its own insults, even with all the support she can get. Be there for her, and encourage her to use all the resources offered, and don't expect the effects to dissipate soon, not even after a dozen years or so. There is healing to be found in carrying on with the daily stuff, everything in its own moment, if that is at all possible. Shut me up, what the fuck do I know? Did I mention it sucks? Be well, all of you. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 03:53, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

For Gooniepunk2005, a bit of dog Latin courtesy of Margaret Atwood: Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.

Neither ought you or your sister to let anyone take advantage of the emotional fallout of the crime, to modify your thinking while your guard is down. ListenerXTalkerX 04:17, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Everyone has pretty much covered everything, but please let me add my own sympathies to that of our friends. I'd also advise you to remember that the most important thing is to keep talking to people. Don't try to hold it all in and take care of it yourself. Talking always makes things better, even if it's just to us anonymous nobodies online. SirChuckBLeave Death Threats Here 04:54, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Words cannot express.. so very sorry to hear of this and wishing you strength through this time of difficulty. I hope it helps to know all the support and caring you have from everyone here.. Take care Refugeetalk page 06:50, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
how she deals with this depends on many many factors. Its easier to watch and observe than to predict. The Hospital should have dealt with the physical , and some of the emotional aspects. Depending on where you live it can be worth following up on her fertile period and the need for a "morning after" contraceptive. Her beliefs of course need to be regarded. You may be tempted to "wrap her up and shield her from everything". In my experiance thats a mistake, it may be desirable for a few days but not much longer. Of she has been battered then she can simply say it was an assault, no need to go further. Check with the DA and see if he is being complete with the charges. Sexual assault, simple assault, kidnapping and civil rights violations may apply since he locked the door, effectively making her captive. I am rambling so I will stop now. I hope this helps somewhat.
That's really horrible. I have no personal experience of circumstance like this but I am told that the main thing is support of friends and family. Counselling is also highly recommended - if only to talk about it with a disinterested party. That goes for those close to your sister as well. As for the perpetrator, I'd be inclined to take out a contract or atttend to him personally with a baseball bat but presumably after he's done jail time you'll all just want to forget that it ever happened. Deepest sympathy to your sister and your family. I have just eaten & stiltontalk 07:38, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you all for your support. I assure I have taken every word everyone has said to heart. AnarchoGoon Swatting Assflys is how I earn my living 07:40, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I really don't know what to say except to say that I understand that your sister, you and your entire family must be going through a horrible time. --BobIt's cold! 09:33, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I'll borrow Bob's words, since I can't think of much more to add. Take care of the family, and yourself. --Ask me about your mother 10:07, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
By talking. Keep talking to us, talk to your family, and most importantly of course, talk to your sister. DeltaStarSenior SysopSpeciationspeed! 12:11, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Holy shit man. There are some sick people in the world. Despite your most innate, primal urge to meet violence with violence, true calm will come by mastering this. In other words, you won't do your sister any good if you're languishing in prison for assaulting this sick bastard (Not that he doesn't deserve it) EdmundBurke (talk) 14:55, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm so sorry to hear that mate, that's one of the most horrific pieces of news one can possibly ever receive. My thoughts are with you my friend, I've emailed you more. Keep in touch. Love you mate. SJ Debaser 15:43, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Horrible news. I hope your sister gets through this okay, that you can help her, and that the SOB gets lots of jail time. --Gulik (talk) 21:14, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Sorry news. I can't add much to what's already been said. Counselling is a good idea - for your sister, you, anyone else who's struggling to deal with this. Anger, denial, depression are all part of the process of dealing with traumas like this, but it really helps to talk it out. WeaseloidMethinks it is a Weasel 23:16, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

## James Burke

I just finished watching The Day the Universe Changed. It inspired me to rewatch Connections(If you have not seen both of these, stop reading and watch them. Seriously. Why are you still reading this instead of watching Connections? Get out). I'm presuming that a good segment of the RW population is a.) old enough to know them, and b.) intelligent to comment on them. I, for one, find that his predictions are scarily accurate, and would relish any other commentary on the subject. --User:Theautocrat/Sig 03:10, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Never heard of them; I'll go check out Connections.--Tom Moorefiat justitia 03:17, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
He was is(Thought he was dead) very underrated: The link with Baxter & Tomorrow's World did hm no favours. I have just eaten & stiltontalk 09:13, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I always enjoined his Connections column in Scientific American. I was very disappointed when they dropped it a few years ago during an editorial re-vamp. ГенгисYou have the right to be offended; and I have the right to offend you. 10:29, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Yet more stuff for my "to get" list... I used to love connections. Totnesmartin (talk) 10:53, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
As an aside, if you've ever played Civilization or any of its descendants, Burke's various series were one of the inspirations. MDB (talk) 14:37, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Back when it was originally broadcast (I was 25 at the time) I remember it being hideously uncool to actually appreciate it and not make "witty" jokes at its expense. I think that maybe this was its biggest failure. We nerds loved it but the wider audience didn't appreciate it for what it was. As such it only preached to the converted. Having said that I remember the final episode as being one of the best pieces of television ever - and few have matched it since. Bob Soles (talk) 15:12, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Connections or Day The Universe Changed, Bob? --User:Theautocrat/Sig 00:23, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Oops, didn't see the ambiguity. I meant Connections. Bob Soles (talk) 15:58, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

## RationalWiki:Sports bar

For the next time Human live blogs baseball?

On the topic, how about the wildcard games? - π 09:03, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Or we could just do it in the back alley... Tetronian you're clueless 12:43, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I thought you'd never ask (*gay hand thing) CrundyTalk nerdy to me 13:21, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
How about just making a "live sports" forum when the need arises, and it will always be there? ħuman 20:24, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
We probably will have quite a bit going this year with the World Cup coming up. - π 23:48, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

## Some fine BS

Okay, so I did the stupid thing of clicking a Facebook ad (it said something like "Learn the TRUTH about the Large Hadron Collider", I just couldn't resist) and eventually ended up trawling the Amazon.com forums for a bit. Found this thread, which is interesting. Sounds very similar to people we know. Very obsessed with the Dawin/Hitler thing and brings up the Lenski LTEE as being outright faked. postate 18:46, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

## Cat in the hat

Does my bum look big in this?

Oh wow, I just discovered that my latest cat lets me put things on her head. This is going to be fun :) CrundyTalk nerdy to me 19:15, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

The formula for success has been known for some time. Stuff + Cats = Awesome. Get cracking. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 19:24, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
try Icanhascheezburger.com for more kitty ideas Hamster (talk) 19:39, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Also try catsinsinks.com and kittenwar.com when you get really bored. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 19:44, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
My Mom once got a sweater for her poodle. After she put it on him, it walked around for about thirty minutes with an expression on its little face that clearly said, "what did I do wrong? don't you love me anymore?" so we took it off and never tried again. MDB (talk) 21:47, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

## Schla(ä)fly(i)?

Has anyone ever heard of Ludwig Schläfli? I just ran across him as I was going through things on WP. I wonder if he's a ancestor of Andy? --Edgerunner76Tah-daaaaaaah! 19:29, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

His father's family were Swiss immigrants. ListenerXTalkerX 19:34, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I have heard of him inasmuch that the Schlafli number is used to describe polygons. I think. --User:Theautocrat/Sig 02:16, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

## This is bugging me...

According to my calculations, the claim that the units in today's xkcd comic cancel out is incorrect; when I poked the units around and put them into Maxima I got energy-1. Is this correct? Bastard harmonic Hoover! 19:47, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I think it's OK? It's energy/pressure*(distance/volume)/distance = J/Pa*(km/L)/km =(up to factors)= (N*m)/(N/m^2)*(m/m^3)/m = unitless. --Retwa (talk) 19:59, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Yes, it works out. You divide joules by a pressure you get a volume. You might get it backwards if you don't use the right measurement for the Prius, as for that sort of thing distance/volume of fuel is as useful a metric as volume of fuel/distance. So the left side cancels to a volume, and the right side cancels to 1 / volume. The units work out as dimensionless. And depending on who you believe for the actual figures, the equation does come out as "pi within experimental error". postate 20:04, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I both used distance/fuel and I got something else wrong... Bastard harmonic Hoover! 20:09, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Who the heck thinks of these things? I mean, obviously Randall Munroe does, but I have to wonder what compels him to come up with something so random. Tetronian you're clueless 21:32, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
It may be a parody of The Equation of Creation, which is hilarious if it is. --User:Theautocrat/Sig 02:20, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
That would make a lot of sense, actually. Thanks Autocrat! Tetronian you're clueless 03:18, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

## Storm

--Kels (talk) 21:51, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I never, ever, thought I'd sit down to watch a 9 minute beat poem all the way through, yet alone want to hear it again immediately afterwards. The video makes it look even more amazing. postate 14:28, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Saw Tim Minchin do this live in Edinburgh last year. Simply brilliant :) Worm(t | c) 16:20, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
I deeply admire Tracy King who is putting the video together, it is an admiration from a distance, but still an admiration

I have been watching some vids on youtube by a guy called NephilimFree. One is on the Nephilim, giants, children of fallen angels and human women . (never heard of that in Sunday school) I asked him a question about why he thought the church removed books of the Bible. I was thinking of Judas and Rnoch. He replied thusly: The church did not remove any books from the Bible. The books were cannonized if they were inspired scripture - if the words were given to the author by the Holy Ghost. The Apocraphal books are not inspired, and thus were not canonnized. The books in the Bible are all that God intended to be part of it. My reaction: say what ! Hamster (talk) 05:56, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

We have a small NephilimFree entry. Acei9 05:59, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
I did enjoy Ice on the moon Hamster (talk) 06:16, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Apparently the Nephilim were all who were destroyed in the flood if I recall some of the crap on ASK aright. I have just eaten & stiltontalk
According to Wikipeia (quoting the burble) the Nephilim were some kind of giants who interbred with humans. All a bit David Icke, although the revised ASoK version may be different. Totnesmartin (talk) 12:13, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

This is beginning to sense. They must have been the ones to ride dinosaurs. Now if I could just figure out the Zombie Jesus thing I'd be a Christian again. Me!Sheesh!Mine! 14:11, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

I read somewhere that you allow a few days to be sure the soul has left the body before raising it as a zombie or a Vampire. Was Jesus seen in clear daylight after rising ? that might be interesting to know. Hamster (talk) 22:25, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

## Entire country block at CP

This discussion was moved to Conservapedia talk:What is going on at CP?.23:02, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

## Engrish

Wow! A Kitchen Thing!
Ah, now it all makes sense.

You guys are going to be so jealous of me. Look what I bought, a family necessary kitchen thing. Check out the instructions on the back! CrundyTalk nerdy to me 21:34, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

I always wondered how those things worked. Now I'm ...errr...none the wiser. Genius. Worm(t | c) 21:39, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
I approve this message
What "hypothes" is? All unhinged am I not knowing. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 21:42, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Dear fuck, if you need a mould for dumplings you fail at life. postate 00:24, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Reminds me of our industrial fans at work. On the chord, there is a tag with a drawing of (what I assume is) the chord and a measurement of 50 cm randomly put on said drawing. On the other side, the chord says "When installed the chord must be lilled at least 50 cm. (as shown) or else it might cause the severe accident probably." Gooniepunk2010 Oi! Oi! Oi! 00:26, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Hahahahahaha love it!!!! Post it here. Acei9 00:29, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
Bah, Flying Goku is the gold standard of hilarious Engrish. Beat that, round-eye! --Kels (talk) 02:35, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
It sounds like Gollum and Buffalo Bob co-wrote those instructions. The Foxhole Atheist (talk) 18:53, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Whilst we're on the subject, bought a packet of wasabi today, that proudly displayed on the packet "No antiseptic". I'm hoping they meant "no preservatives". --Psygremlin講話 17:52, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Well, it's true I guess. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 23:01, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

## Sarah Palin

In other shocking news,

• The sun rose this morning
• Water is wet
• The Pope is Catholic
• Bears shit in the woods.

MDB (talk) 18:55, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Yessss...I can't wait to watch her show. Also, they should make The Daily Show a few minutes longer to compensate for the added material. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 19:03, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
If you have heard an earth-shattering "woo-hoo!" recently, it probably came from your nearest comedy writer. MDB (talk) 19:22, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
This is definitely banner news for anyone involved in comedy, yes! ħuman 20:30, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Bears always seem to have a supply of charmin tissue though. Palins vast international experiance in staring down Russia, and protecting the border by wielding her rifle from helicopter will position her very well for Fox news. Hamster (talk) 19:35, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I hear that things may not be going well for Roger Ailes, Fox's director. R Murcock's son in law says
"I am by no means alone within the family or the company in being ashamed and sickened by Roger Ailes's horrendous and sustained disregard of the journalistic standards that News Corporation, its founder and every other global media business aspires to.
Are things going to change?--BobIt's cold! 20:53, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
There was an article in the New York Times this weekend about Ailes. Apparently he is the one responsible for shifting the network's programming to the right, and some of the Murdochs aren't happy about it. As for the Palin news: it's very telling, and it says a great deal about the Tea Party: their icons are people not interested in governing, they are merely media spectacles. Tetronian you're clueless 20:59, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Should be good fun. She'll simultaneously ruin her presidential chances by reminding the nation she's an intolerant, incoherent bitch, whilst also providing some wholesome entertainment for all people who admire courage in the face of idiocy. EdmundBurke (talk) 21:37, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Being a moderate I am now going to act as if I am above it all and bash on you liberals. You are constantly underestimating your opponents, Sarah is not stupid, she will put a lot of thought into what she says and she will carefully craft her image as she has done for the last year or so. In her show she will not be surprised with questions like "What do you read?" or "tell us how you feel about evolution" she will instead hide her profound ignorance and go back to the talking points, she is extremely good at sticking to the talking points, if a little repetitive. Opcn (talk) 20:16, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
She has no talking points. She has been discredited on all of them, with one exception-the media is out to get her. What the hell is she going to talk about? **Headlines with Sarah**: "other shows rate mine poorly." Next day: Others shows rate my show on them rating me poorly, poorly. She IS a dumbfuck. It took her 6 years to get a goddamn journalism "degree" from hicktown U. δij${\displaystyle ^{i.broke.it.}}$ 02:58, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
She changed schools 6 times, she finished in 4 and a half years (she graduated highschool in may 1982 and college in december of '87). She is not a dumbfuck, she had to do some thinking to worm her way so close to the top like that, she just didn't do her homework. Had she studied for a few more months rather than being a full time mother, she would probably be VP right now. Underestimating your opponents is indicative of your own weakness of mind, not theirs. --Opcn (talk) 05:35, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I'll go slow with you because you're obviously a dumbfuck too. 82-83=1 year 83-84-=2 84-85=3 85-86=4 86-87=5 87-87=5 1/2 If you taken any math at all 5.5=6. She took 6 years to finish college. "Worm her way to the top"? So a failed governor of the least populous state in the union is your idea of "the top?!?!" Do we have lowered expectations? I graduated in 3.5 (that is rounded to 4) years with two B.S. degrees from a top 20 school. If Palin, given her academic history is a "genius," what does this make me? Genius squared? SHE COULDN'T NAME A FUCKING SUPREME COURT RULING OUTSIDE ROE V WADE. You have to be a fucking moron not to be able to name a least half a dozen cases. I DIDN'T TAKE AMERICAN HISTORY IN THE UNITED STATES and I can name a dozen off the top of my head. δij${\displaystyle ^{i.broke.it.}}$ 06:04, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

You are right, I dropped a year, that does change things. I still think that that is not entirely unreasonable given the realities of transferring credits and changing majors, and the miss Alaska scholarship has grade standards attached to it so it is not as if she was transferring because she was flunking out. Alaska is not the least populace state in the union, Wyoming, Vermont, and North Dakota are all smaller. I would not argue that she isn't profoundly ignorant on many issues of governance, as a governor She was very on top of the energy ball, owing no doubt to her time spent on the Oil and Gas Conservation Commission. A vice presidential candidate of a major political party is damn close to the top, one bad gaff can throw an election and had Obama made one or had something come out about him with some backing to it she would be VP right now. She hasn't bothered to study, I never said she was a genius, I said she was smart, her brain works well, she just hasn't used it well. List for me the names of the 5 most important nucleotide bases? Can't do it? You must be a fucking MORON ... that or you haven't studied, there IS A BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE. --Opcn (talk) 07:08, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Don't forget that one of her few actually working for a living jobs was as a television talking head, specifically being a sports reporter. I've seen some YouTube clips and she seemed to do okay. TV talking head is not a job you need a brain for - David Gerard (talk) 21:57, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm certainly going to be interested in seeing how it turns out. I have very low expectations but I suppose she could surprise me. Is she starting soon?--BobIt's cold! 22:17, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

## Mei for crat

Mei got cratted and decratted within a few hours, apparently there was no discussion. So, on with the discussion: Totnesmartin (talk) 20:47, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Final vote is 11 / 9 / 2. Voting closed by Mei at 03:13, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

### Support

CLOSED

• Tetronian you're clueless 20:49, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Mei is useful. 'nuff said.
• — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 20:51, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
• The Goonie Punk Can't sleep, clowns will eat me! 22:21, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
• - π 23:00, 11 January 2010 (UTC) All the arguments against are so self important, I vote we give her Phantom Hoover's cratship.
• ~ Kupochama[1][2] 23:09, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Being demoted by Mei would be substantially more cute than by Ace. No offense, but we all know it.
• Why not. -- Nx / talk 23:11, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
• Bureaucrat essentially gives demotion & renaming abilities & not much else beyond sysop powers. I think Mei can be trusted to use these & is here often enough to put demotion powers to good use. WeaseloidMethinks it is a Weasel 23:37, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
• Mei is more useful than all other crats put together. --User:Theautocrat/Sig 00:10, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
• Mei is useful, not vandalous, and trusworthy. I guess I support. ĴάΛäšςǍ₰ I saw a cartilage by here... 02:13, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
• Support. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 02:16, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
• Mei-chan can have mine. It's not like I ever use them (the fact that I'm all bitter and twisted about that fact that the 2 people I did demote never thanked has nothing to do with this... really). --PsygremlinTala! 18:30, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

### Oppose

CLOSED

• ListenerXTalkerX 20:49, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
• Bastard harmonic Hoover! 20:55, 11 January 2010 (UTC) She's useful, but she hasn't really been around enough.
• --BobIt's cold! 20:58, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
• I like Mei a lot so it isn't personal, but I still feel opposed. Acei9 21:10, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
• EdmundBurke (talk) 21:27, 11 January 2010 (UTC) The less people who have these positions of authority the better. You don't want this place turning into WP, where unwarranted self importance on the internet has long been a disease of the most explosive variety.
• As with Ace, nothing personal, but we don't need more 'crats. Maybe one of us could give her ours? I rarely use mine... ħuman 22:06, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
• Simply for the fact that I'm still not a crat CrundyTalk nerdy to me 22:15, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
• Too many crats already. Nothing personal. But if whoever cratted Mei in the first place wants to forgo their own cratship in exchange, then I'd support that. ГенгисYou have the right to be offended; and I have the right to offend you. 12:11, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
• I have nothing against Mei but fail to see why she deserves it. Seems more like mutual admiration society to me.  Lily Inspirate me. 00:27, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

CLOSED

### Discussion

I don't see why not. Tetronian you're clueless 21:01, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

LX and PH voted "Oppose". That's reason enough for me to support. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 21:03, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Actually PH brings up a good point. I was basing my decision on perceived trustworthiness, it didn't occur to me to think of anything else. Tetronian you're clueless 21:05, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Yeah but he's a fucking wanker, so it's irrelevant? — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 21:11, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
We have non-bureaucrats voting here in violation of established convention. Their votes should be stricken. ListenerXTalkerX 21:26, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I once knew this guy who made a habit out of enforcing unwritten rules. Turns out he was a Red. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 21:27, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
@LX: What convention? When Javascap held a vote on Neveruse, everyone voted. Tetronian you're clueless 21:28, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I was mistaken about the convention. My apologies. ListenerXTalkerX 21:43, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Not a problem. In the end, though, I think most of the voters will be the 'crats anyway. Tetronian you're clueless 21:45, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm sure this 'Mei' person is all fine and good, but you just don't need anyone else to be a 'crat. As far as I know, they hold no power here other than social influence. They are a scourge if nothing else, allowing people the delusion of superiority on the internet. I've seen it on Wikipedia, that place is over-run by sysops with 15 or so chips on their shoulders. Just scrap this kind of sad internet popularity contest altogether. EdmundBurke (talk) 21:31, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
You could at least be subtle. Bastard harmonic Hoover! 21:33, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Pardon? Look up unwarranted self importance on encyclopedia dramatica. I'm sorry if I was being too brash! EdmundBurke (talk) 21:35, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Mr. Burke makes an excellent point... — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 21:36, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
What Mr. Burke fails to take into account is that we bureaucrats are superior to you peons. We are better looking, smarter, stronger, our shit smells like fresh baked cookies, our penises are much larger (yes, this is true even of the female crats), and we are all astoundingly witty. These traits should not be overlooked. DickTurpis (talk) 21:46, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Damn right Dick. We are superior in so many ways as to be almost classed as a higher species. Also, User:EdmundBurke reminds me of someone. Acei9 22:04, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I wonder how Mei will take the good news regarding penis size. Tetronian you're clueless 22:06, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
@Tetronian: Confused! -- =w= 11:52, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Ahh, the lesser known corollary of Danth's Law regarding internet claims about having a large penis... — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 22:09, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Vote Thanatos for the least influential crat at Rationalwiki. My significance is in my insignificance!--Thanatos (talk) 06:49, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

### ;;

Thank you for voting everyone. I am surprised and happy about the amount of support. Mei still likes all oppose voters (even MC!) so there is no need to argue. -- =w= 11:52, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

## De-crat ListenerX

Result is 5 / 12 / 3. Voting closed by Mei at 03:15, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

CLOSED

### Oppose

CLOSED What's he done to deserve decratting? His opinions may be his own but he doesn't abuse his position. Totnesmartin (talk) 21:57, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I barely notice him , thats excellent Crat conduct, keep him 67.72.98.58 (talk) 22:03, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
He's different from everyone else here, and I like him for it. 'sides, he's a good 'crat. SJ Debaser 22:07, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
• I agree with the above. Differing opinions help avoid groupthink. Tetronian you're clueless 22:09, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
• Agreed. ListenerX is a pretty natty 'crat. Nothing but good experiences with him. --Ask me about your mother 22:25, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
• Ummmm... why? ĵ₳¥ášÇ♠ʘ no fate but what we make 02:13, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
• Bureaucrats shouldn't be decratted unless they have abused their powers, which he hasn't done. Plus, ListenerX is a fine person all around; even when he's being disagreeable he's still pleasant to be around. Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 10:34, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
• I like ListenerX -- =w= 12:23, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
• What the hell would we do that for? ListenerX is one of the most independent people here, and that's why I love him. The Spikey Punk I'm punking my punk! 15:41, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
• I fucking hate the guy. Oppose de-cratting. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 15:53, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
• 18:21, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
• Since when is being annoying a ground for decratting? Pietrow (talk) 20:46, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

### Goat

CLOSED I think this is supposed to be a joke. My sense of humo(u)r is not working today (or most days, for that matter). Tetronian you're clueless 22:00, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

No shit it is a joke. --User:Theautocrat/Sig 02:48, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
It's kinda sad how most times these things go way over my head. Tetronian you're clueless 03:00, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

## Crat elections

Why not have twice yearly (say) elections instead of ad hoc nominations? On the Anniversary of RW2 founding and 6 months later. I have just eaten & stiltontalk 01:50, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

We could have a crat parliament and Trent as our benevolent dictator could dissolve it for elections. (I just want to get carried away). - π 01:56, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
I fully support the idea of a 'crat parliament. And we could all have titles, like, say, Minister of the Exchequer or Prime Minister (Human), or Winston Churchill (Ace), or War Minister! And then Trent could be king and call for elections whenever he damn well felt like it (or is that Prime Minister? My British politics are sketchy at best). Someone had better work on this in their sandbox... --User:Theautocrat/Sig 02:12, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
I rhink you want a site handyman, to fix stuff and keep things working good. You can have Benevolent Dictator and Council of Elders to discuss stuff and look cool. Mei should be a crat cause she might be Ancient Mei from the Dresden Files , and that would be bad :( Hamster (talk) 05:50, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
We must give preference to the High Priest/Priestess as per The RationalWiki Silly Person's Society. - π 06:58, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Wait, wait. Did Toast just make a reasonable suggestion, only to have Pi dickishly swat it aside by diving straight into slippery-slope hyperbole, or was her suggestion in jest in the first place and I'm just missing out on the joke? Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 10:40, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
What makes you think my idea was dickish and slippery-slope hyperbole? I think you should have to defend why you are a crat every 6 months. You have not been here for nearly a year and you still have your rights, despite the fact you don't know what has been going on in your absence. - π 10:54, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
It was slippery-slope hyperbole because holding elections (which, knowing us, would be done as informally as possible) does not equal "OMG we're instituting a representative democracy!". And from my point of view, that you mischaracterized Toast's argument in the manner most likely to derail the conversation makes you kind of a dick. Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 11:01, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Given that your "point of view" is mostly the inside of your rectum, I can see how you were confused. - π 11:11, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
No, I'm pretty sure you're just a dick. Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 11:19, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Haven't you got an e-penis to measure or a list of grudges to document? - π 11:26, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Nope. Man, do you always turn into a douchebag when the argument isn't going your way? You should try joining Conservapedia—I hear they value people like that. Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 11:32, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
It is better than the local equivalent of Godwin's Law. - π 11:40, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Hmph. Point taken. Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 11:45, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
EC Please don't fight. This tiny misunderstanding isn't worth fighting over. -- =w= 11:46, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
We will stop fighting for Mei. RA --> <-- Pi. See, we are all friends now. - π 11:59, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Of course. Though I like to think we're still friends even through all the fighting. : ) Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 12:08, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
I do too, but even so. Fights make Mei sad. -- =w= 12:13, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
I agree with Mei. Yay Mei! :-) Refugeetalk page 20:51, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
And from my point of view, that you mischaracterized Toast's argument in the manner most likely to derail the conversation makes you kind of a dick. And in my opinion, you deliberately railroaded the conversation to engage in this annoying drama fest. Well done! EdmundBurke (talk) 17:11, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

I should enjoy being Secretary of Commas. I would organize raids on other wikis to replenish our supply when it runs low. ħuman 22:06, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I tend to over-use the things, so I feel partially to blame for the comma shortages. Maybe I should switch to using hyphens? --Ask me about your mother 22:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
I too have a serious case of teh comma over-usez. Especially in real life. I have to try and control myself when doing an essay to make sure I don't get carried away and go comma-mad on the paper. SJ Debaser 12:23, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

## Proposed essay on Dignity

I hope to post an essay on RationalWiki. The proposed title is "Dignity: what is it?"

The essay will have much of the content of Dignity's article on Wikipedia, but I will editorialize the essay to meet RationalWiki's high standards. I am proposing to put the essay here because the article on Wikipedia is being battered; it may become senseless at any moment.

If you would like to keep a good article at Wikipedia, please visit Talk:Dignity. At the bottom of that page, editors may request that the most recent version by **Pyrrhon** be displayed immediately. Please make that request. No reason is required. Thank you for your help. ESO  talk   18:01, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't think you'll find anyone here who wants to take sides on a WP dispute, but if you intend to write an essay, please do. postate 18:04, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
That looks like a hell of a bitter feud you've got going on there, & I don't reckon you're conducting yourself very well in it, from the parts I've glanced at. Anyhoo, if you want to copy your version of the dignity article as a personal essay at RationalWiki, put it at Essay:Dignity. It won't be a mainspace article here, as our aims, focus & style are completely different from Wikipedia's. WeaseloidMethinks it is a Weasel 19:30, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
ESO, I think it is against WP policy to "recruit" people to take your side in a dispute. But I forget the details, I'm not much of a wikilawyer. ħuman 22:11, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

He's a fucking fruitloop. Fasten your seatbelts:

The core of dignity is quiddity. In other words, something has the quality of being what it is. Accordingly, everything has dignity: beings, viruses, objects, ideas. Dignity is more than quiddity because of the idea that something which has dignity is deserving of respect. The idea that everything deserves respect makes dignity useful as an authority. As Aldergrove notes, dignity is as good as 'just because' as a reason for whatever one wants to say or do. [1]

--Robledo (talk) 22:21, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Having skimmed some of the diffs and the talk page, I would be embarrassed to do what ESO is asking. ħuman 22:24, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Viruses have dignity? I thought that's why they had protein coats, so no one would see them naked. Heh heh heh... Tetronian you're clueless 00:10, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I love the word "quiddity" and I am stealing it for the purposes of good.--Tom Moorefiat justitia 02:54, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Best of luck with that. I would never be able to use it in a sentence, as the other words in the sentence would be much less sophisticated and would get jealous. Tetronian you're clueless 03:08, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Hmmm, quiddity is synonymous with essence, apparently from some Latin philosophy... so dignity exists in all things? I'm not sure. Either way you're just arguing what a word means. There's an accepted definition, so if you want to think of a new concept, develop your own word, but in this case "quiddity" seems to have been coined already. Diguiddity? postate 08:00, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
No Diggity. WeaseloidMethinks it is a Weasel 18:02, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Diggity comes in two "flavours": "cold diggity" and the rather more common "hot diggity", usually of the canine variety. Bob Soles (talk) 00:37, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

## Definition of "moving the goalpost"

My debate with NephilimFree rages on in the comment section of one of my videos. Most recently I asked him to define "form" (apparently it has to change for morphology to change), and he accused me of "goalpost moving." I'm fairly certain that he misunderstood the fallacy, but I wanted to make sure. For anyone who wants to read it, its under this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiTGxTl3dAk --Mustex (talk) 19:25, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Check the Conservapedia entry on "moving the goalposts" that is pretty much what it seems like he's done. The correct use, is that you have something refuted, and then you change what you were talking about after this (post hoc). How creationists tend to use it, is accusing "evolutionists" of moving the goalposts when they say "evolution describes the diversity of life, not the origin", when no goal posts have ever been moved because that always has, and always will be covered by a different set of theories. But certainly, asking someone to bloody well define their goal posts first has nothing to do with the fallacy (although most creationists will refuse to define them because it makes them easier to move; what is a "kind", what is the mechanism by which beings are specially created, where is your evidence... so on and so forth). postate 19:45, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Pretty sure that you meant to type ex post facto instead of post hoc up there, but no matter. Sorry, Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 14:33, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. Thought so.--Mustex (talk) 21:27, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Hey, you son of a bitch! I'm the one who works NF into a corner over morphology! He claimed he was using the webster's medical dictionary to define morphology, which says "form and structure". Webster's defines "form" as "shape". He insists shape (and color/size) are not morphological features. One time he said "It depends on form AND structure, so both need to change for the morphology to change" and I was all like "lol, whut?". Fun stuff. He can't admit the simplest of errors. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 21:32, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
It wasn't the original topic, he brought it up. The original issue was ring species. He seems to think they're evidence that all live on Earth is becoming sterile. As far as I can tell his argument is "speciation causes things to become different species, which means they can't reproduce, which means they'll go extinct, which means that evolution can't be true!" Regardless, there's no need to call me names.--Mustex (talk) 00:41, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I can't bring myself to watch him. Does he still wear those that giant headset? Corry (talk) 22:14, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
that isn't one of his videos, its one of mine with him in the comments section.--Mustex (talk) 00:41, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
It's bigger than ever. He seems to try and use a soft voice more often. He reaches new levels of creepiness every day. — Sincerely, Neveruse / Talk / Block 22:16, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
I almost think biology set itself up for this sort of thing with the entire concept of "species". People need to get into their heads (and if there's one characteristic of most creationists I can see, it's the inability to think of anything in terms of shades or variables, and only in black and white absolutes; morality, science, religion, it's all simplified in this worldview) it's that the term "species" is malleable. The universe doesn't neatly pigeon-hole animals into one species or another, it's entirely something that we invented to classify things. And most of that classification was done prior to modern genetics, and even know - with that genetic knowledge - we don't use it thoroughly to define our definitions, if anything it shows how weak an idea it is to categorise things like that. So any argument along the lines of "speciation causes things to become different species, which means they can't reproduce, which means they'll go extinct, which means that evolution can't be true!" is really in the formal category of Not Even Wrong, because it tries to apply a thoroughly man-made concept to something that just happens naturally. postate 07:18, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Armond, you should cut and paste what you just said into an article. Perhaps species? ħuman 08:11, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I thought I did, although it may be a different article. It's certainly not the first time I've attempted to ram-home that fine point about "speciation". postate 09:08, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Sort of done. It was already there in the second section, but it's worth expanding. postate 09:18, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

## I gave Manchester a link

Sean Manchester seems to believe I'm a coward because I post anonymously on the internet, and live in a country other than his. So, I gave him a link to my youtube video responding to him in the comments section of his blog (http://bishopseanmanchester.blogspot.com/2010/01/falsehood-about-me-of-rational-wiki.html ).--Mustex (talk) 03:07, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Link done broke. =(δij${\displaystyle ^{i.broke.it.}}$ 03:10, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
That should fix it.--Mustex (talk) 03:20, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

BTW, decided to make him an offer, and respond to some of his stuff about me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzEyGLGPEAg --Mustex (talk) 03:35, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Excellent, more evidence that we're pissing off the right people. Glad to see it's the usual crank response; don't bother refuting it, just scream "libel" and hope people don't notice you never actually cleared your name (personally, I think he's just whining about the snark and satire aspect, we had the same when someone complained about the Gary Null article). But, it seems like a decent amount of new info that should be included into the article and I hope you keep an eye on it. postate 07:03, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I normally avoid getting involved with those people because it does my head in trying to deal with their narrow definitions, goalpost moving and circular logic. However, following Mustex's link to BSM's blog I was appalled to see the phrase "The Truth Shall Set You Free" plastered across the top - another Schlaflyite. ГенгисYou have the right to be offended; and I have the right to offend you. 08:31, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I always associate that with Jehova's Witnesses. I have just eaten & stiltontalk 08:36, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
(EC) Morning Toast. Well as it is partial biblical quote (John 8:32) I guess it's open for any religio to use, it's just that CP has it splashed across the top of their main page (unattributed as usual). ГенгисYou have the right to be offended; and I have the right to offend you. 08:53, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
More. I may even want to get involved in this. He seems to be trying to quote talk page comments and trying to say that they mean something. postate 08:51, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Dudes, this guy is looking pretty obsessed actually. Thought I can't particularly see where the article is particularly libelous. The worst it comes to is "the guy claims to be a vampire hunter, as evidence suggests vampires don't exist, we have a carte blanche to take the piss a little". postate 09:07, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Be careful. I had a read through his blogs and noted a couple of things.
• There are quite a few funny pictures of him and his friends LARPing. It's odd that they all rolled as clerics. That's not good for party balance.
• There are no reader comments. Perhaps people fear his D&D skills?
If he comes after us I'll just use my druid. Druids kick cleric arse. --Ask me about your mother 10:00, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Additonally, doesn't look like it's the first time he's gone on a tirade against anyone who has gone at him for being a crackpot. Someone posted [http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=71335 this[ to JREF a few years ago, spawned a half decent sized thread. postate 12:39, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I'd be careful giving him your details. He's into harrassment and legal threats. I've seen several references now about him "filling up" people's inboxes. This is probably why he's bitching about you being anonymous, so you'll fall into the trap of giving him your details. If he does send threatening letters then be sure to post them here. CrundyTalk nerdy to me 13:10, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Good advice. Also, try to avoid rolling an undead character. They can have a tough time fighting clerics. Personally I find that rogues tend to be the cleric anti-class, at least in Warcraft. Ask me about your mother 13:24, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

To be safe when I posted those videos, I also removed another video which he could have used, with a google search, to determine my place of employment and harass my employers. I'm not that concerned with him having my mailing address, I live in a residential community with a courtesy officer who I could call if a strange British man tried to come to my home, and if he tries to fill up my mailbox...well, whatever. If I have to communicate with him over e-mail I'll probably create a new e-mail address specifically for that, though. I almost hope he gets DMCA-happy, though, since its the best way to bring the entire Youtube community to my defense (and probably get me a bunch of new subscribers).--Mustex (talk) 15:14, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Possibly, thought I imagine that from the looks of things he's all fire and brimstone in the blogging department but probably doesn't have the balls or knowledge to DMCA you or actually come after RW with libel/slander (after all, I don't particularly see where the slander is, apart from "vampires don't exist"). Still, tone the article up a little and get everything recorded properly, we don't want to just ignore responses like this. postate 18:36, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
The slander aspect, according to the first blog linked, is that "To repeat defamation renders the duplicator of the calumny liable in law". But this is in response to our article's comment that "a blogger named Alex Lucard claims that Manchester harassed him, allegedly accusing him of actually being the vampire Dracula" (my emphasis). We haven't represented the alleged defamation to be factual; we've simply referenced it. Most of his other comments are just finding petty fault with things we say in the article or talk page. I don't think we need to tighten up the article unduly: it's meant to be snarky and non-encyclopedic. WeaseloidMethinks it is a Weasel 18:54, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I don't mean tighten it as in "dry it out and remove the snark", I mean get it up to the standard of some of the top articles. If someone's going to complain about something, I'd rather that they complained about something of very high quality. BTW, shift this to the forum, there's "article discussion" now that could do with some threads? postate 19:29, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Wouldn't it be better shifted to the article's talk page? WeaseloidMethinks it is a Weasel 19:38, 13 January 2010 (UTC)