RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive274

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, (new)(back)

RIP Pepe the Frog

Matt Furie, the creator of Pepe the Frog, has killed him off at the age of 12. As someone who had a few belly-laughs with Pepe back in the day, I have to admit to being a little sad, though I didn't think it was WIGO material. I for one prefer to remember him how he was rather than what he became. There will be plenty of post-mortem articles written about the cartoon frog and his weird place in politics, but I'll leave that job to esteemed professionals. RIP Pepe 2005-2017 feels bad man. Hentropy (talk) 02:28, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

So. Who's next? Which childhood icon gets appropriated by the neo-Nazis next? Spongebob? Invader Zim? In a way, it's depressing. RoninMacbeth (talk) 02:38, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

Rumor on the cyber street has it that they're going to use another one of Furie's characters to "get back" at him for killing Pepe. Hentropy (talk) 02:45, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

Feelsbadman... In all seriousness though, the best way to combat Neo-Nazis appropriating meme culture is to not pay any attention to it, as it's used to get a rise out of people. Additionally, claiming the Pepe meme has turned into a product of Nazism just sounds really out-there, even if it's true. megalodon (talk) 18:24, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

@RoninMacbeth

You should look up what we already have done to them lol 2d4chanfag (talk) 08:25, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

So, I've been getting bombarded with ads...

...Specifically, ads on YouTube. Specifically, ads for a certain YouTube channel masquerading as a college. I've been getting these ads ever since some lunkhead sent me a link to one of their videos and I took the time to watch and debunk the claims presented in it. Since I didn't leave a dislike, YouTube has since decided that I "liked" it, and as such, I have been getting ads from these shysters nonstop whenever I am not on a computer that I can use UBlock Origin with. Since these ads are not selling anything, but rather spewing BS about how people disagreeing with fake statistics are rejecting reality because feelings and how recognizing Palestine is a communist plot to corrupt Israel's precious bodily fluids, is it legal (on YouTube, anyway) for them to present their propaganda as advertisements? Also, what can I do on computers that I am not allowed to use adblockers with? TheMyon (talk) 12:32, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

I think I watched of Prager's ads once. It was all about how the wage gap is a myth and whatnot. The funniest part was it was actually completely fine and factual up until they eventually got to the inevitable "women more often work jobs that pay lower wages than men" and they just jumped all the way to the conclusion "this is all obviously a product of personal choice and there's absolutely nothing inherently flawed with 50% of the population mysteriously not wanting to work the same high-paying jobs as men". The statement "women in the US are paid less for the same jobs & time worked as men" is certainly false (at least as far as I know), but I think there's definitely an issue where social stigma pressures women into low-paying "care-taker" (such as day-care workers, and teachers) and subordinate roles, as well as away from leadership roles. I think I may have been targeted by the ad for looking up all those infamous skeptic channels. If you can't use adblock to get rid of them, I'd recommend either going on a "dislike spree" through Prager's channel, or not watching content like it. After all, ads do target users based on what they're watching and like. megalodon (talk) 15:15, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

I get the same problem, I occasionally watch wingnut and moonbatty stuff on Youtube just to get a handle on what crap is floating out there. They're not so much "ads" as just your recommendations sidebar, and mine gets totally clogged with BS, Youtube somehow thinks I love both Sargon and The Young Turks and various conspiracy channels. Prager for one reason or another floods me whenever I watch one fucking video of theirs. One thing you can do is roll over the video recommendation, hit the arrow in the upper-right-hand corner, and it'll have a "Not Interested" button. It'll get the message when you do it enough. Hentropy (talk) 17:53, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

The best way to "annoy the computers' algorithms" is to deliberately topic hop (and comment on the 'amusing combinations of adverts etc' that arise). 11:04, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

YouTube has ads? (I use ublock origin; ads, what ads?) CorruptUser (talk) 14:01, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

My question: Is Dennis Prager in anyway related to Felix Praeger of Praeger Publishing? As a long time observer of both, there are definite similiarities to the two in tone and content, it's as if Dennis Prager has continued Praeger Publishing's work since the Church Committee exposed it. nobs 15:37, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Roman bot

It's slightly old news, but can we get an article on Roman bot? Assuming it's missional? Thanks. Face me, swab! 13:05, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

This is the funniest thing I've ever watched.

EmbedVideo received the bad id "P1ULjJ3EqyY&t" for the service "youtube".

This is what happens when people with apophenia upload youtube videos --Godonaldgo1 (talk) 17:24, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Truth Anti Tobacco Fascists Campaign

I understand smoking is not good for you and all that plus people should be educated. That being said, "Truth" seems to be promoting a conspiracy that African Americans are being targeted by Tobacco companies and that Big Tobacco markets cigarettes next to schools with high African-American enrollment (go check out their website). As I said, smoking is bad but advocating a racial conspiracy that conveniently ignores other groups does not help the cause. Especially when racial tensions are very high. If you promote a conspiracy based on distortions and lies then I am not on board. Link- https://www.thetruth.com/ Because a rotting undead corpse is probably a better choice than most politicians

The anti-smoking agitation has been a serious problem in the USA for years. Our government sponsors those hectoring "Tips from Former Smokers" ads, believing them to be a public service rather than simply lowering the bar of bad taste well beyond where anybody, much less a government, should go. Segregation, too, is OK so long as the victims are smokers. After all, if you even smell one - and they can be identified by smell - you might catch the leprosy they carry. If you endorse the anti-smoking agitation you are a party to the murder of Eric Garner. - Smerdis of Tlön, ^{LOAD "*", 8, 1.} 03:21, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

South Park wasn't really wrong with that episode all those years ago about the anti-smoking people, they truly do what they do caring much more about the ends than the means. It's hard to argue with the effectiveness, though, smoking really has dropped off substantially, though it's also hard to say whether television ads are the reason. I might be a little bit biased as smoking-related illness is something that had touched my friends and family more than a couple times, but if it really does stop people from doing something objectively awful to themselves for basically no good reason, I think I can overlook some shitty ad campaigns. When it comes to "conspiracy theories" I'm not really sure if it calls in that category, selectively citing actual facts is something pretty much everyone does when they're arguing persuasively. Hentropy (talk) 07:05, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Actually, tobacco companies targeted African Americans and women in parts of Asia with menthol cigarettes. Cigarette companies knew that menthol made cigarettes more addictive, and therefore more dangerous.[1] Bongolian (talk) 07:57, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Demographically targeted marketing is not a conspiracy theory, it's advertising convention. Targeted marketing of youth by Tobacco companies in the past is well documented. You're skepticism circuits are slightly overreacting. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 16:02, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

If a company engages in fraudulent activity connected to marketing, it has been considered conspiracy. This was particularly the case for tobacco companies that had been engaging in "in a decades-long conspiracy to (1) mislead the public about the risks of smoking, (2) mislead the public about the danger of secondhand smoke; (3) misrepresent the addictiveness of nicotine, (4) manipulate the nicotine delivery of cigarettes, (5) deceptively market cigarettes characterized as “light” or “low tar,” while knowing that those cigarettes were at least as hazardous as full flavored cigarettes, (6) target the youth market; and (7) not produce safer cigarettes."[2] Bongolian (talk) 19:22, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

I've been wanting to bring them up for quite some time. While the tobacco companies still do shitty things, especially in countries that have trouble dealing with them using the law, the Truth campaign is full of shit. They use argumentum ad fastidium and chemophobia to push their agenda. One commercial showed them telling people that cigarettes have urea, saying that it's found in cat pee(it's in all mammals' urine) as well as methane, which they say is found in dog poop(again, it comes out of all mammals' asses, AND is found in natural deposits). It's fucking methane! On their website, they say that cigarettes also contain acetic acid, which is used in floor cleaner. Some of you might recognize acetic acid as also being the main ingredient in vinegar. They also shamed Florida in commercial, pointing out that if the state where Hooters began can get such a low teen smoking rate, how come others are lagging behind. The commercials often feel like a bunch of peer pressure and propaganda. I hate smoking but god are they obnoxious.Teurastaja (talk) 13:53, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

My thoughts exactly. Menoshe (talk) 17:46, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

The 'Truth' business is merely annoying, and like all propaganda that tries to reach for 'hip', ends up looking mildly ridiculous. (And makes their early efforts much more interesting compared to the recent material. But give it time....) But 'Truth' is only funded by extortion from tobacco companies. My real beef is with "Tips from Former Smokers", pure scare tactics that plumb the depths of bad taste. This is very simply something that no government should ever do to its citizens. - Smerdis of Tlön, ^{LOAD "*", 8, 1.} 19:04, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Nicotine users have virtually no rate of Parkinson's disease. People who self-medicate against Parkinson's have been vilified and outcast by the supposed "healthy" population for decades simply cause the tobacco industry stopped contributing to Democrats in the 1960s when the Democrats striped cigarette makers of their First Amendment Rights to advertise on TV. nobs 14:31, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Even when I was very against cigs as a child, these commercials were full of shit. The one I always remembered was the fishbowl with 30 goldfish while the water slowly drained out. I felt so bad for those fish I took up heavy smoking in protest.Asaac Isimov (talk) 11:36, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Comey

So...yeah. Thoughts on the implications of Director Comey's dismissal? Anyone think Trump just damaged himself possibly beyond repair? RoninMacbeth (talk) 20:30, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

No. Power moves such as this are traditional in failing/failed democracies. Given the "11th commandment's" sway over the republican party, it is the American people who are going to lose this exchange. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 20:41, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

It is a discomforting feeling... part of me wants to be optimistic, but another part of me wants to prepare for the possibility that Trump could successfully absolve himself of crimes while the Republicans protect him for political reasons. Republican Senators don't seem thrilled that this happened but don't seem willing to do anything substantial about it. The only real hope you can have is if this snowballs, or if there's a really bad leak that can't be ignored, or at the very least that 2018 is going to be a bad time for the Republican majority. Hentropy (talk) 20:50, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

You're assuming, of course, that the recently announced Presidential Commission on Election Integrity isn't going to take some very Orwellian interpretations of "integrity". Not necessarily an incorrect assumption; it's entirely possible reality could win, but at this point, I'm disinclined to trust the continued existence of the American republic. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 20:59, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

I wouldn't be as alarmed about that, it's largely just red meat for his supporters. There is no national election system and the commission has no power to actually do much besides "fact-find". Chances are we'll hear nothing from this commission for over a year before they release a report telling us what we already knew. Republicans playing shutdown defense when it comes to the Russia thing because they really, really don't want to halt a legislative agenda is more concerning. Hentropy (talk) 21:11, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

The Donald has annoyed the military, the FBI, and who else - and how many other 'persons or groups with leverage' can he annoy before they find a suitable means of leverage back (the ancient scientist and moving the Earth). 86.146.100.54 (talk) 21:43, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Here's the problem: the conspirators, Obama, Brennan, Rice, Lynch, Hillary et al, didn't anticipate loosing when they hatched the Trump-Russia plot. Now it is payback time. nobs 14:42, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

I doubt Trump or his team have the ability to establish an autocracy. From what I've seen the consensus is that Trump is somehow incompetent and capable of/trying to set himself up as a dictator at the same time. While most people seem quite happy believing this contradiction because it makes Trump look as bad as possible, I tend to solve in favor of the first part. If Trump was really a threat to democracy, none of you would see it coming. Lord Aeonian (talk) 01:08, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree, the fact is that the left is just taking every move he's making and trying to make it sound fascist. In order for this to be a five-alarm fire, certain lines need to be crossed. Trump has run his mouth about the media, but he's not jailing or killing them. He's running his mouth about judges, but he's abiding by them. He's doing a lot of shitty things that are completely within his authority as President (partially thanks to how much executive power has expanded under both Rs and Ds). He's done ethically dubious things, but people are just now finding out there's few actual laws against such things. If the left is just going to cry fascist every time he does anything questionable, it'll start look like crying wolf. This very well may be the strategy. Hentropy (talk) 01:19, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

The only plausible scenario I can see for a Trump exit is after corporate tax cuts are passed. Until then, House and Senate Republicans will fight tooth and nail against any agency that threatens him. Leuders (talk) 01:11, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

This. This...this is Nixonian. I think we can safely say Trump has become unhinged. 2018, if the Dems win, Trump needs to be kicked out. RoninMacbeth (talk) 17:17, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

It is not a matter of the "Dems winning", it's a matter of the Dems recapturing the deplorable Trump voters they lost. What is hard about understanding this? and why does the establishment Democratic party continue to go out of its way to offend what used to be their base voters? They're aren't enough voters among other demographic groups to make up for the base they have alienated. nobs 14:51, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

...and particularly if illegal immigration is squelched; illegal immigration is the only thing that has given the national Democratic party on edge over the past twenty years. Both Bill Clinton and Barack Obama owe their electoral victories to non-citizen voters. And without that, as is readily clear, the Democratic party has nothing. They hold power in eight states, out of 50. nobs 15:13, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

We're shaken to the core by your pithy insights, our misguided allegiance to the Clintons is shattered utterly, and we share your all consuming fear of illegals. Your job here is done, nobs. Leuders (talk) 23:51, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Does this guy warrant a page?

Those Christian fundies sometimes push it too far... nobs 10:42, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

I'm shocked he doesn't. He's got tons of stupid crazy ideas of how to be a hateful dick.Asaac Isimov (talk) 11:49, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

I dunno, he's got 66K followers. I suspect in a troubled city like Detroit he has more followers than any politician, businessman, or academic. nobs 18:51, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

RW is "satanist to the core"

Look at what this moron said about us. Godonaldgo1 (talk) 23:44, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

I stopped reading after I saw that the rant is in mostly lowercaps. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 00:00, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Eh. Very tame stuff in the scope of biblethumpers railing against the site. Most of the views on that video probably came from RationalWiki. 71.188.73.196 (talk) 00:04, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Someone took the time to dislike it. —Oh colors! (speak, speak) Look at what I've done 02:20, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

That was me --Godonaldgo1 (talk) 04:29, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Nice :) —Oh colors! (speak, speak) Look at what I've done 05:26, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Technically, it's one of the worst YouBoob videos I've seen. Let's make a slow-mo video of plain text for people who are slow readers. Boring! Bongolian (talk) 06:47, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Of course, we're all satanist communist evilisionist atheists here. Even nobS. Diacelium (talk) 19:49, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

I guess then that we can take it as a compliment --Panzerfaust (talk) 21:44, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Why is it even in video format? Why not just post a rant in some forum? Is it desperation to get views or something??? --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 21:58, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

I thought it was pretty good, on point, direct, and informative. Why do you guys have your panties in knot if satan doesn't exist, hmmm? Lack of faith in your disblief? nobs 07:24, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Right wingers have this obliviousness about them where they mistake mockery for their profoundly stupid beliefs for being taken aback and insulted by said beliefs. I credit this to them being too stupid to recognize what it is they do that does insult people, but, horses mouth, why do you think you make that kinda obvious mistake, nobsy? ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 16:01, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Nobs - what about kilt-wearers and those going commando?

What would Satan make of Conservapedia? 86.146.99.100 (talk) 22:05, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

*Sips some blood from a cup*. Even that slump known as Chris Chan makes better "videos" than these pathetic cowards. Maim!Kill!Burn! 22:22, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

I will stop the dumbass at, "RW's resource is the devil". Much of the information on the Fundie Christians is directly from their own websites and videos as well as woo schools, other religions, politics and whatever else. Example- the info on Liberty University comes from their own site for the most part. Maybe the jack ass who made the video will target individual users next? Plenty of atheists for sure, agnostics, some liberal Christians and some Pagans; don't forget that vast majority of the users are liberals and second place is centrists. That Undead Schizophrenic

Fundies are so moron that cannot see or purposefully ignore what the Bible has to say about Satan, and especially how their beloved God is the one that creates the Apocalypse (read the BotR) --Panzerfaust (talk) 08:43, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

I posted a comment to the video and he responded --Godonaldgo1 (talk) 04:44, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

Surely your being prompted and motivated to respond is evidence of either (a) giving some validity to the concept of Satan, or (b) holding in esteem the ideas of the poster, assuming it was a non-parody or trolling response.

Simple logic applies here: the atheist view may be represented as Satan = 0, and the believers view a Satan = 1. I don't quite understand the lack of belief or faith in the formula, Satan = 0, that one feels prompted to defend it or challenge the other formula. nobs 16:19, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Doesn't that logic also apply to you posting here nobs? megalodon (talk) 03:07, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

CoolHardLogic

I highly recommend CoolHardLogic's videos, particularly these ones. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmWeueTF8l819bt3sC72soaG4JtfqJFcg. --Godonaldgo1 (talk) 02:17, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Humpty Dumpty Trump's Wall and his big fall

I get immigration laws should be enforced (you have to have some sort of law, that is a given) but building a wall won't work (I know everyone knows that). It would be much cheaper to.......you know......have the immigration workers DO THEIR JOB. I am not saying, "Target Hispanics" as there are immigrants from every other nation. It would be much better and not actually racist if you investigate someone if it is suspected (that goes for any immigrant). The way things are going now, "President" Trump has other things to worry about such as being impeached and being investigated for treason. I think illegal immigration should be the last thing on Trump's mind.--Rationalzombie94 (talk) 03:06, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

The great wall of China worked for them... 2d4chanfag (talk) 03:44, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

-Donald Trump 03:48, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

North Korea does a good job too at keeping immigrants out. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 03:51, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Sometimes I have to desperately hope a post is sarcastic. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 14:56, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Why would the GOP impeach President Kushner? There is nothing in it for them. (((Zack Martin)))^™ 09:44, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

The Great Wall of China was not one single wall - and what about the salt hedge or Hadrian's Wall? 82.44.143.26 (talk) 17:32, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Here's my unproven conjecture: The moral injustice of any wall is inversely proportional to how ridiculously righteous its naming comittee tried to make it sound. Case study: Anti-Fascist Protective Wall. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 09:58, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

I think that's probably a fair rule for any non-decorative construction. Maybe tombs are also exempt. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 14:42, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Am I the only one who actually loves Trump? Not as a president, not as a leader, but as some bizarre caricature that seemed to have come straight from a critique of our capitalist and consumerist society. He's like one of the first Presidents that actually seems to go out of his way to actively ignore reality, and as dangerous as that is, I find it sickly amusing. megalodon (talk) 14:53, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

What do you think of Trump floating the idea of ending the daily press briefing and handing out written transcripts? I kinda like it. I'd go a step further: close the Press Briefing Room, sweep out the whole lot of them, and convert the space to something more useful, like a bowling alley or something. Why should we, the American people, be on the hook for our tax dollars providing work space for a snobbish, arrogent, insulting, elitist class of journalists hostile to our country, the people, its values, its government, and its institutions? If they wish to be close to the seat of power, send them to LaFayette Park across the street with the homeless where they belong. nobs 14:05, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

I can kind of see your point but at the same time the President should face the American people. I do not want a President that hides.--Rationalzombie94 (talk) 16:21, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Twitter has given him direct access no president has ever had. We've come a long way since Woodrow Wilson installed the first direct phone line to Capital Hill, although both the White House and Congress had been wired internally with phones for four decades prior.

The federal government is the last to change with technological innovation that destroys jobs; Congress still had a fulltime paid elevator operator to push buttons in 1981 when Reagen was elected (in the old days it took a mechanic to run one and to look after safety concerns entering and exiting) and the White House still had a paid fulltime movie projectionist in 1994 during the Gingrich Revolution to pop in video tapes for the president's after dinner movie enjoyment. nobs 16:57, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Just curious but how comes the reps became for protectionism and against global market, or at least part of them. If Trump wants to be the new Reagan, wasn't him, one of the biggest proposer and enabler of an aggressive deregulation and globalization of the markets? Plus people against the alleged competition flooding from immigrants are unknowingly marxist, becase the concept is the "army of reserve", as the chain of contractual bargaining power is a strong as its weakest rings. But when that happened with residents and "native" (well, after actual natives) population, people have been more tolerant, but I might guess most of devaluation happened that way. Dunno what's funnier between pro deregulation left and the more recent anti globalist right :D.--78.15.253.193 (talk) 23:58, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Is there a name for this fallacy?

The "if everybody or [X group] or both sides hates me, I must be doing something right"-fallacy: is there a name for it? Levi Ackerman (talk) 18:33, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

It's the Galileo gambit, or at least something close to it. Bongolian (talk) 18:39, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

To what extent is what 'the speaker' is doing right is 'getting other people to dislike them and their peculiar views'? 86.191.125.216 (talk) 20:58, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

In Roman Catholic theology, there's the notion of a sign of contradiction, where the truth is revealed by everybody being against it. - Smerdis of Tlön, ^{LOAD "*", 8, 1.} 23:37, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

What's your evidence that view is a "fallacy"? (Just because you choose to call something a "fallacy" does not make it so.) To me it is an inductive argument; as to how strong or weak it is, it depends on the circumstances. But, in the abstract, the claim that ideas which are rejected by both major positions in a debate might on average be somewhat more likely to be true than ideas that lack that property is not entirely implausible. (Still, I don't think it is likely to be particularly strong, but neither as weak as weak can be; and even a relatively weak inductive argument can be valuable for its cumulative contribution.) (((Zack Martin)))^™ 23:41, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

"Doing something right" is subjective. Is the goal to be an intolerable douchebag who deems themselves superior for going against the flow? If so, they're doing something right. Narky Sawtooth (Nyar?~) 03:17, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

I think we should have mandatory abortions. Since both pro choice and pro life hate that, I must be right.

Instead of cutting carbon emissions, we should use coal to power our cars. Both sides say I'm wrong, so hooray.

...this sounds more like a deliberate parody than an actual fallacy. StickySock (talk) 04:24, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Christians hate Satan: therefor Satan is 'doing/promoting the right thing.' 86.146.99.46 (talk) 10:16, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

I'd say it's closest to the Galileo gambit, a prime example of this fallacy in the wild is pretty much all of RW:PISSED. Christopher (talk) 15:38, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Labour party platform

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/11/leaker-draft-manifesto-jeremy-corbyn-labour-trident So the Labour Party's manifesto leaked. What do you think about it ? Diacelium (talk) 17:08, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Recycled commie crap debt ridden budget busters nanny state fast track to third world oblivion. It's not even a legitimate "leak"; it's a trial baloon they want to blame Vladimir Putin for when it fails. These idiots are still stuck in the 1930s. nobs 19:15, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

nobs, trying to make left-wing look archaic while believing in free-market ideas old much older than either Keynes or Marx, and having a very conservative view on social policies. Diacelium (talk) 20:20, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Let's look at the most obvious trouble-point, which is the equivalent of throwing in the towel: Lower the voting age to 16. This means, despite all the govt goodies, freebies, handouts, and subsidies with unspecified sources, they already know voter demographics don',t provide enough support. Then, continuing on the assumption people are stupid, they counter with an argument more inexperienced and stupid people need a voice in the system. The Sandinistas tried this when they negotiated to allow elections, knowing without support of the violent and brainwashed jihadis youth, they hadn't a prayer. nobs 21:51, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

Free market ideas aren't much better either. --Panzerfaust (talk) 19:07, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

You know it doesn't really read like a platform. It's more like a grocery store where all the high-profit items are stacked at eye-level, and you have to bend over and reach for cheap stuff on the bottom shelf. They load all the freebies up front; free train passes, free housing free this free that. At the bottom in the fine print is here's how we're gonna pay for it stick it to anybody making £80,000 or better etc etc etc. Folded with a crease down the middle with admission they know few people will fall this bullshit unless your 16 years old.

My favorite in this kinda tripe (again, near the top) is always, "make funds available", as if people are so fucking stupid the don't remember yesterday's debt-funding crisis. Suddenly. Voila! Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat! and "make funds available" by taxing you to death or cutting some other benefit program for this "new ides". nobs 03:25, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

it doesnt read 'like a platform' because it isnt. its a leak. the manifesto is out today and goes into more detail. irrelevant detail because labour are dead. AMassiveGay (talk) 13:56, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

How come?

the Template space is protected and cannot be edited by anyone? There is an important holiday missing from Template:Holydaze, tomorrow in fact, and this oversight should be corrected. Who's hungry? We're all hungry! (talk) 16:47, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

It can't be edited by BoNs or new users, I imagine you'll be able to edit it when you're autoconfirmed which happens when your account is a day old and has 10 edits. What was the holiday you meant? Christopher (talk) 16:53, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

The one I put for the time being at RationalWiki:Sandbox/Holydaze/0509 Who's hungry? We're all hungry! (talk) 17:00, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Should've seen that, sorry. My history's atrocious, mind reminding me what the sandbox subpage is referring to?

In future, you can make your own personal sandbox here (link works for everyone). Christopher (talk) 17:06, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Victory Day marks the surrender of Nazi Germany and end of the European part of World War II. In the west it was known as V-E Day on May 8. In Russia and other former Soviet countries it is on May 9 due to the time zone difference and it is arguably their most important public holiday. Who's hungry? We're all hungry! (talk) 17:26, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

I forgot they'd celebrate it on a different day due to timezone differences, I think our Holydaze thingy on it should be on the 8th of May as that's when most of our readers would probably celebrate it. Christopher (talk) 17:34, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

The USA (which is where the majority of our readers probably live) celebrates it on the 9th of August apparently, we probably have something about it for that date. Christopher (talk) 17:39, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

well, sure you could put up May 8 and omit May 9, if you want it to look like a deliberate snub against Russia. V-E Day is not a major day in the west anymore. In Russia it is their most important holiday, or maybe the second most after New Years. Don't worry, Russia is used to nothing but offensive snubs from westerners so what's one more? Especially when you have holidays commemorated like this and this and this. Who's hungry? We're all hungry! (talk) 17:54, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

I didn't know how important it was in Russia and certainly wasn't trying to offend anyone, I'll add it in a minute (could you not assume people are deliberately trying to offend you and get so angry about it in future though?). Christopher (talk) 18:04, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

I've done it, it should appear tomorrow. We should probably have one for Victory Day in Europe as well but I doubt anyone's ever going to get round to it. Christopher (talk) 18:24, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

In the USA, V-J day or Victory Day is sometimes commemorated, but isn't that big a deal. There's also some ambiguity as to whether to celebrate it on Aug. 15, when Japan surrendered, or Sept. 2 when the surrender ceremony took place. - Smerdis of Tlön, ^{LOAD "*", 8, 1.} 20:06, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

The actual importance of the Victory Day celebration in Russia has varied over the years, with particular decline after the fall of the Soviet Union. Putin has elevated the status of the day over the past 17 years of his reign,[3] likely in a symbolic reflection of empire building. Bongolian (talk) 20:57, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

I noticed the Hammer and Sickle on display in Red Square during the May Day parades. This exposed the utter phoniness of the Trump-Russia conspiracy theorists. If they knew any facts in their haste to slander Trump with the label "traitor", which makes no sense in a world without borders, they would know the hammer and sickle is as offensive as the swastika or the Confederate flag. Yet, not a peep. nobs 14:16, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

I'm not going to dive into the truthiness of Trump/Russia conspiracy, but I'm no Communist and but I'd still say it's absurd to label the hammer and sickle as a symbol of hate. The hammer and sickle remains and has always been a symbol of proletarian unity (Literally the point of May Day). Even though it was used by various despotic regimes, it was specifically used in those regimes to project the facade proletarian unity. It wasn't coopted to represent anything else, and continued to be used in/around/outside those regimes with it's original meaning in-place.

On the other hand, the swastika had it meaning changed significantly (in the West at least), from a Subcontinental religious symbol, to a general symbol of good luck, before being coopted by the Nazis and heavily mythologised as representative of German Indo-Iranian/Aryan racial purity. The swastika is no longer considered a good luck symbol in the west, and is intimately intwined with Nazi ideology.

Yes, the hammer and sickle represents "communism", but the swastika doesn't represent "fascism". The comparison is that of economic ideals vs racial supremacy. -MVHVTMV (talk) 21:17, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Fourty million people died under the hammer and sickle. Their survivors are offended.

The Chinese are slowly buying into Hollywood production companies and movie theatre distribution outlets. They intend to own it all someday and likely will. One of their first international epic films - a joint Warner Bros/Chinese production, has a scene never before portrayed in American cinema. You need to see the full production to grasp its significance, but enough portions are in the trailer. During indiscriminate bombing and the rape of Nanking, a huge swastika flag is unfurled, the people run under it, and they are safe. IOW, the Chinese have made a huge investment, and one of the first statements they've made in this international production is a portrayal of the swastika as a symbol of safety and salvation. In a Hollywood film. Unheard of. nobs 23:15, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

I whole heartedly disagree with your analysis of John Rabe, the film was a German production first and foremost with the reluctant help of the Chinese government (initially opposed for diplomatic reasons, and eventually supported primarily in opposition of Japanese revisionism). The idea that a man disgusted by war-crimes are enough to redeem the swastika from anything is hamfisted at best. Yes, many innocent people died fighting for the Nazi cause, but that doesn't change the symbolism.

Also, yeah. I appreciate that people do find the hammer and sickle offensive, and that it's been banned in several European nations, but it's utterly absurd to compare it directly to the swastika. Yes, many people died under Soviet occupation, but what I'm saying is that in most of the world the hammer and sickle still remains a symbol of something more than *just* CCCP atrocities, and it's still in frequent use by a large number of disparate socialist groups. No matter how shit you might think the political ideology is/was, the hammer and sickle is still a symbol of a political ideology, whereas the swastika is more readily liked to white-supremacy and anti-semitism and is never used to refer to a non-racial fascist ideology. -MVHVTMV (talk) 07:15, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

This is a rare occasion where I'll agree with nobs on anything. I've seen Poles getting super pissed off at casual fashion use of the hammer and sickle specifically because for them it means Soviet oppression - David Gerard (talk) 16:40, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Instances of citing a marriage partners religion as child endangerment in a child custody case.

Are there any instances where someone successfully used their ex's religion as justification to deny them custody? Jehovah's witnesses don't believe in blood transfusions and believe most organizations are run by the devil which would suggest an unwillingness to take their kids to the hospital and Christian Scientists have been charged with negligence for refusing their children treatment. Has anyone made a case for their partners attitudes condemning abortion as being potential child endangerment? Some pregnancies can be fatal to the mothers health with certain medical conditions. X-Factor (talk) 19:46, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Depends on what country. Here in the US, A parent's religion is not usually considered to be against the "best interests of the child", though denying your child life-saving treatment or using physical abuse to make your kids do or do not practice a certain religion is a huge no-no. In other words: Does their ex's religion (or or lack of) have an opportunity of endangering a child?--Pokefrazer (talk) 19:59, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

@X-Factor: The facts as stated rely on expert opinion. One group of experts would have argue in front of a judge the proceedure​ is necessary (which tri-mester would also be a consideration); opposing counsel would have experts to say they are full of shit. The Law doesn't really matter here. It's who can afford the better, more experienced experts to testify.

Nowadays you have experts in all fields, particularly medicine, who don't practice medicine. They hold a license but fly the country from court case to court case persuading juries one way or another explaining medical terminology to laymen. Like lawyers, they get paid on their win/loss ratio. nobs 02:50, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

I don't remember where it was, but I remember reading this book about cults and religions, I think, about how adherents of certain religions or cults (as in small/new religions) lose custody of the child either fairly or unfairly. But like I said, I barely remember the name of the book, author, or the specific cases where it happened. I think I need to search them up. Ɀexcoiler Kingbolt Noooooooo! ^{There's a roach on my Wall!} 21:54, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

If you accept that the Church of the SubGenius is a religion, Rachel Bevilacqua temporarily lost custody due to her membership (for about 3 years I think).[4] Bongolian (talk) 06:51, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

I had a feeling that whoever has the most gold makes the rules. I imagine most conservative religious parents don't actually discuss the contingency plan of what to do if their daughter gets pregnant and stops eating, they just assume that it will never happen, like how they assume there's an afterlife. A detailed plan beforehand would make the abuse premeditated if that actually makes a difference. I'm guessing that grounding your kids to prevent them from going to a doctor after school would be legal as part of a curfew, and I'm not exactly sure physicians can even detect signs of force feeding without injuries from resisting restraints. I don't think teachers would really be able to detect this until the later stages of pregnancy, though they'd probably notice any severe mood changes, that alone is inconclusive. Sorry to keep bring up worst case scenarios that I hope are rare statistical outliers. X-Factor (talk) 23:02, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

UK insanity

Seems to me, the Blair-haters and Cameron-haters are now allowing themselves to be manipulated by the same propaganda mouthpieces that brought you the Iraq & Libyan debacles. They are being transformed into Trump-haters. Trump's the guy taking on the elements within the Atlantic Alliance that brought you the Libyan and Iraq wars. nobs 20:07, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

oh poor rob. Duped by a imbecilic chancer with the skin tone of of an oompa loompa. that must sting. AMassiveGay (talk) 20:51, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Nah, if you just nobs hard enough and decide that "No, reality is the one who's wrong, here", then there's no suffering for accidentally endorsing exactly the sort of pointless militarism you called "Clintonism" ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 21:07, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

So everyone's in agreement with the Blairites and Cameronites that taking out Saddam & Gaddafi was the right thing to do, and this judgement is formed by the same news organizations that duped your fellow citizens by demonizing Saddam & Gaddafi, now demonizing and wanting to take out Trump. nobs 21:20, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

"Taking out Saddam" was fucking stupid, and Blair rightfully got his party wrecked for his stupidity, New Labour had been poisoned with right wing ideologies, especially neoconservatism. More important to why you're fucking crazy: Gaddaffi was not ousted by a labour government in any way, shape, or form. Among the horrendous insanity of making that claim: labour was the one major party that was not part of the government coalition in 2011. It was conservatives and lib dems. Also Britain played an ancillary role in the 2011 intervention by NATO. Also, decapitation/regime change was not the stated goal of the 2011 intervention. Fractal wrongness abounds here, nobs. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 22:01, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

I think nobby's main problem is he believes (or wants to believe) that Trump has some kind of central, consistent political ideology and isn't just some celebrity trying desperately to wing it (and failing). Trump's like a projector screen, because all of his public statements are vague and noncommittal, enough people in the vague right sphere can see in him whatever they want. It's the reason why some Randian libertarians sincerely thought he was libertarian leaning, while at the same time the alt-right and "blue collar" Republicans thought he spoke for them as well. A few short and simple campaign slogans can do numbers on someone's political pscyhe. Just look at how many young progressives thought Obama was a radical change agent despite objectively not being one by any measure. Hentropy (talk) 23:40, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

@Ikanread: I never said anything about Labour. I said the Blair-haters and the Cameron-haters - of which there is much over lap, and for the same reasons: Saddam and Gaddafi. And when the shit really hit the fan in Libya, Obama blamed Cameron for roping him into it.

The point is clear and simple: Trump sounds like Cindy Sheehan today blaming the PNAC & neocons for the same shit. And it's the same media and political establishment, irrespective of party in both countries, fighting back. Only this time against a more powerful opponent. And it's awfully hypocritcal of Bush, Blair, and Cameron critics anywhere to not see this. nobs 23:56, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

I was almost tempted to agree, but then why he's also feeding the pro war propaganda abut Syria, depicting Assad as a sort of Hitler and what about North Korea? He's waist deep into establishment and tied with Goldman Sachs for the treasure, despite being voted by a part of electorate who was into anti-jew conspiracies and thought he was one to fight their power especially their banks, of course. Moreover he's hardline pro isreal policies to the point of supporting expansionism and new colonies. If any we could theorize about competing establishments at most, or different faces of the same coin.--78.15.253.193 (talk) 00:10, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

He's resisting McMaster & Matthis call for 150,000 ground troops in Syria. Cruise missiles were a one time deal. The thinking is, the Jews are behind the remove Assad campaign to get rid of Hezbollah, which is backed by Iran, which is in bed with Putin. Hence to not oppose Putin makes one a fascist and anti-Semite.

As to North Korea, they definitely are threat to economic development to the oil-rich Eastern Siberia, Sakhalin Island, and offshore rigs. China, Japan, South Korea (and North Korea if it were sane) would all benefit from this development, both in production of equipment, providing labor & expertise to the oil sector, and in chesper crude. This fundamentally is why Tillerson was selected. nobs 01:09, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Trump is just some weird old guy who is totally our of depth and doing random crazy stuff which his supporters then desperately try to reinterpret as if it represented some sort of coherent strategy. Until he makes some other random comment which puts them all on the wrong foot again. --Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 17:17, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

I'm increasingly convinced that nobs is a chatbot. 90.210.94.209 (talk) 18:34, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

what about Andrew Schlafly?

@BobM, that's half true, until the unelected IC overruled his foreign policy objectives. As inexperienced as Trump is, he had no contingency for the loss of Flynn. Flynn was his chief strategist for all the foreign policy changes he promised on the campaign trail.

This is not the first time we've seen power struggles like this on the National Security Council staff (fyi, domestic policy stances, proposals, or accomplishments aint shit compared to the NSC). One of the closest parralels is the Reagan administration. Reagan went through 6 National Security Advisers in 8 years, basically a struggle between Kissinger associates and the Pentagon. The Pentagon ultimately won which carried through into the Papa Bush years and brought you such notables as Colin Powell & Dick Cheney. But Reagan announced from day one the position of National Security Advisor would be downgraded as a policymaking role of 2 of its most recent predecessors, Kissinger & Brezhinski, the positions of Def. Sec. & Sec. of State would be elevated again (for the first time since Lyndon Johnson) to policymaking roles.

The position that 'Trumps a senile old bastard haha' adds nothing to the debate over granting the IC, ODNI, and Dept. of Homeland Security such unlimited power, not just to violate civil rights, but to nullify elections and presidential perogatives. Trump just lacked experience and had no bench to fill the swamp. Let's be clear who the swamp is -- the Intelligence Community that brought you WMD, humanitarisnism with a bayonet up the ass of an ally, the Islamic State, and the European migrant crisis. Doing the IC's bidding only strengthens them, and delays reform. nobs 19:33, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

For what it's worth - so far I have seen three bits of Labour Party 'advertising' and nothing from the others in a fair amount of travelling in the London area (and, since the last election, Nicola Sturgeon, Scottish Nationalist Party, has been far more visible than 'whatshisgivenname' Farron). 86.191.125.221 (talk) 21:59, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

The only insanity is the tory manifesto. And the idea of having a second brexit referendum, which is one of the dumbest things I've heard. Diacelium (talk) 22:02, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Rationalwiki barn stars

If Rationalwiki developed a system of barn stars what would they be for? And should there be 'negative barn stars' (for those who really deserve them)? 31.51.113.42 (talk) 21:54, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Well, I imagine that they'd be for really, really well done edits or quality comments. As for implementing the system? You'd have to ask someone else about whether or not it's a good idea. I suggest talking to the good Reverend. And the negative ones? Bad editors tend to have a reputation, so maybe it wouldn't necessary. Vive Liberté! 22:00, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

The Thumb's Up Barn Star for having a good line in put downs, the Melting clocks for 'stopped clock syndrome' (to convey what is meant), a child's windmill toy for those who refuse to budge from an untenable viewpoint, the Monty Python foot for ... 31.51.113.42 (talk) 22:15, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

RationalWiki has a barn star. I hereby nominate the good Reverend for it. Regards, Cosmikdebris (talk) 00:24, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

If RW can avoid WP's unnecessary glorified sticker "barnstar" clutter, that'd be great. FuzzyCatPotato!™ (talk/stalk) 06:05, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Exception for the goat barnstar, obviously. FuzzyCatPotato!™ (talk/stalk) 06:05, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

We don't have barnstars, we have brainstars. As of me writing this there's only one image in this category though. Christopher (talk) 13:57, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

An opportunity for artistic RW-ians? 82.44.143.26 (talk) 14:37, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Actually, we have an entire category of Barnstar award templates. I was awarded the Beerstar five years ago. I remember being given the Half-stale cookie as well. I can't see it on my talk page now, though. Anyway, you don't have to nominate a user for a Barnstar. You just give it to him or her by leaving a talk page message. It might be nice to spread a bit more love by giving them out more often. Spud (talk) 07:04, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

How does the barnstar system work ? Who decides to give, for exemple a beerstar to someone ? Diacelium (talk) 12:53, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

From reading through long gone users' talk pages, you just make a new section titled "a barnstar for you" or "here's a half eaten cookie" and put the template there. It appears to have fallen out of use. Christopher (talk) 12:58, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

*excited anticipation* oh boy oh boy Reverend Black Percy (talk) 20:48, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Will RBP's make reference to the relevant tartan? (And any connection to the person of the same name 'the pet webspider' finds?) 31.49.137.244 (talk) 21:22, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

There should be more acknowledgement of 'reasons for praise' for activity on RW. 82.44.143.26 (talk) 18:31, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

ITT: nobs guesses wildly speculates about Assange

What do you think? An effort to lure him out so they can whack him?nobs 16:31, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

So far he seems to be too smart for that. - Smerdis of Tlön, ^{LOAD "*", 8, 1.} 18:13, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Could be trying to give Ecuador an excuse to unload their freeloader. Supposedly, he's still wanted on a minor charge in the UK. Bongolian (talk) 18:28, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

assange was never at risk of deportation, assassination or extraordinary rendition. he was and is too high profile for that shit. hes not even wanted in the us, despite a lot of talk. it was all paranoia and ego. AMassiveGay (talk) 21:32, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

Question: if he had calmly gone to trial in Sweden and 'got some clever legal and other people to do negotiations' and done some plea bargaining etc - would he still be in prison? 86.191.125.138 (talk) 21:35, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

deportation to the US i mean. Definitely would have gone to sweden. AMassiveGay (talk) 21:36, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

The conspiracy theories have begun... —Evo and Meta (speak, speak) | Look at what I've done! 22:26, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

What's sad, even tho he's free to walk out the gate, there still is no place to go. Except perhaps Moscow. nobs 01:55, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Gotdagnit

It's a temporary suspension because they're unable to reach him, y'all. If it doesn't get brought back up, it'll be because he managed to evade long enough to pass limitations and whatnot. Narky Sawtooth (Nyar?~) 20:56, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

He's been there 5 years. Then, in the past 6 mos we learn Hillary wants him dead, and Pence & Pompeo want to see him in and orange suit for the rest of his life, which is the same thing. Then suddenly like magic, ok, you can come out now (after his two lawyers familiar with the case meet an untimely demise). nobs 04:04, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

A good PragerU video?

This one doesn't seem disagreeable at all. Lord Aeonian (talk) 23:36, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

I wouldn't discount them entirely. This video about the causes of the Civil War gets straight to the point. - Smerdis of Tlön, ^{LOAD "*", 8, 1.} 01:25, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

The common thread between those two good videos is that they seem to feature people who know what the fuck they're talking about. It does sort of handwave the very real threat of anti-Muslim hate crimes as unimportant, it's largely a good video. They even tapped Ayaan Hirsi Ali for another video on Islam which is surprisingly good, at least in the sense that it's not hopelessly warped in favor of a single worldview. Hentropy (talk) 07:31, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

I'm just glad to see we're doing our best to combat splitting. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 10:08, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

It just has the high cost of having 5 Prager video recommends in every video I watch now. Hentropy (talk) 18:31, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

What would happen

if Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un swap places?

Any other 'bizarre job-swaps'? 82.44.143.26 (talk) 15:46, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

That would confuse the fuck out of Trump. He'd be thinking, Something's different today, I'm sure of it ... 94.1.175.135 (talk) 19:06, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Well Kim's already got a wall. Bicycle^wheel 14:42, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

What if Hillary and Melania swapped places? Hillary would be running the country while Democrats would be looking for a way to amend the Constitution so Melania can run. nobs 03:08, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

And Jeremy Corbin gets parachuted into the FBI vacancy. 31.49.137.185 (talk) 22:56, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Donald Trump would probably enjoy running a personality cult. Church of the Rabid Zombie Squirrels

Who could Putin be swapped with? The Area 51 Rebuttal Group letter writing dogsbody? 31.51.113.42 (talk) 21:45, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

I am pretty sure Steve Bannon is just Putin in a Klansmen outfit. Probuscus (talk) 09:31, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

How do you deal with emotional eating?

I have a problem with emotional eating, I was talking with my mom today and I mentioned the reason I probably emotionally eat is to hide my personal insecurities. Any tips? First Church of the Rabid Zombie Squirrels

This is one of those CBT things. Find the mental pattern you don't like, find a step in that thought process to insert a replacement action, develop new, healthier habit. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 15:48, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Alternatively, beef tips aren't bad tips. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 15:48, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

It may also be the case that the actual eating is (in a relative sense) less of a problem compared to what you're eating. Do you happen to love apples? If so, you're in luck. They're cheap and plentiful, often sweet, take some time to chow down, offer some chewing resistance (helps tire out your jaws), and best of all — even better than just 'being healthy' (in this context) — they contain very little, aside from fibre and water. Especially the fibre part means you'll fill up rather quick on them. Not "satiety-full", but "better able to override a general eating impulse-full". Note also that I don't suggest just eating apples all the time. The primary solution here lies closer to what Ikanreed talks about above — i.e., seeing a psychiatrist and discussing CBT and/or medication — but what IS true is that adding atleast one sweet apple (though preferably two or more) as the first "dish" when comfort eating, and/or interspersing apples throughout your "meal" (regardless of if your eating habits are more "binge" or "constant snacking") will help you fill up a lot faster, for cheap, adding water and dietary fibre, without actually upping your energy intake all that much. This also works as part of a general weight loss strategy, btw — you'll find it surprisingly difficult to slay your typical size portion or steak if you've stuffed down an apple or two just prior to sitting down for dinner. Combining this with using smaller plates (onto which you still pile what looks like your ordinary portion size) can make a big difference over time. In short; if the eating is of the "nervous" variety, a professional (CBT/medication) should be your first stop. If it's more of the "munchies" variety, adding apples might be sufficient. Though, consider adding apples in both scenarios (and remember, always prior to ingesting the regular high-energy food!). "How do you like dem apples?" Hope this helps! All the best, Reverend Black Percy (talk) 10:52, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

hit the gym. it'll improve your mood and self image, and you can eat whatever you like. AMassiveGay (talk) 21:27, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

...Ideally... But assuming limited time, energy, budget and/or self-control — better start with a visit to your psychiatrist's office. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 11:57, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

I tried the psychiatrist office but I only see the nurse practitioner as the doctor works mostly at the hospital, the nurse really did not know.--Rationalzombie94 (talk) 16:21, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Emotional eating is not an uncommon complaint, so they should really be able to offer you more than just a shrug. Couldn't you try to book a meeting with an actual doctor (not a nurse) via phone? Reverend Black Percy (talk) 15:49, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Moar stupidity incoming

I've found here a pair of evangelical radio stations, that come with the usual BS of them -most of it "canned" from US churches- (the gems I remember include negating evolution, Paul's misoginy, the second coming as well as the BS that appears in the Book of Revelation being near, complaining about nobody talking about Hell just about Heaven, NWO BS, and of course begging for monies). It seems all that stupidity is coming here, even if thank Gods it seems nobody gives a fuck about them, like the JW.

It's still worrying their desire of evangelizing everyone here. --Panzerfaust (talk) 12:23, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

There are several genres of religious radio active in these parts today. The newest format, and the one that seems to be gaining in popularity, is Christian pop music, branded with names like "K-Love" and "Positive Hits." These stations play bland, watered down, heartless soft rock music. Then there is christian talk, mostly preaching and/or right wing politics, as exemplified by the types of radio formats used by Salem Radio Network. Old croaked Harold Camping's network, Family Radio, is still around with nonstop church music and bible readings. The Catholics have their EWTN network with stations all over the place, too. The worst of all (and these are all pretty bad) is American Family Radio, which is a glorified regressive right wing hate factory propped up by pious beliefs. Various church organizations have abused loopholes in government regulations and have established large networks of low powered FM transmitters. And this is just what's found on the medium wave (AM) and FM bands here on the east coast of the USA. Shortwave radio originating from the US is dominated by religious programming, including some of the most insane fringe programming.

Broadcast band radio is slowly dying, killed by the internet. However it's still a fertile ground for the Christian evangelicals.

Regards, Cosmikdebris (talk) 12:52, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Right now, terrestrial radio as a whole is experiencing what AM radio went through in the '50s and '60s with the rise of both FM radio and television. Back then, the pop music moved to FM and the dramas and comedies moved to TV, leaving AM radio with just a) oldies aimed at middle-aged-and-up listeners who were still loyal to their old stations, b) news, talk, sports, public radio, and emergency services where the long reach of AM signals was more important than sound quality, and c) religious stations. Now, with the rise of smartphones, the once-captive markets of commuters and at-work listeners now have alternatives to the radio, so pop music is migrating to streaming services. It's hit modern rock especially hard. Rock music led the way in moving to the internet with the MySpace-driven emo boom in the 2000s, such that it was the first to start dying on terrestrial radio, with most modern rock stations moving to an "active rock" format that incorporates a lot of classic rock to pull in older listeners. I noticed it happening in New York as early as 2006. In the other direction, the changes in radio are also part of the reason why country music is so big right now. In 2017, the Venn diagram between country fans and people who prefer radio over streaming contains a lot of overlap — they're both older, more rural demographics who may not have, or even want, smartphones capable of hassle-free streaming. Radio broadcasters are flocking to them, and a number of non-country artists, from Jon Bon Jovi to Kid Rock to Miley Cyrus, have started moving in a more country direction in order to shore up a fanbase that they know will spend money on CDs. (There was a great bit in Grand Theft Auto V where a parody of Paula Deen has a famous pop star as a guest on her show. Said pop star just switched to making country music and taking on a Southern accent and a right-wing culture warrior persona, and she basically admits that she did it as a sellout move to pander to the one demographic that "doesn't have a clue what downloading is.")

Looking at my local radio stations, I see that South Florida is well along this path. Up in West Palm Beach, you've got an oldies pop standards station and a K-Love affiliate occupying prime real estate at the center of the FM dial. Ten years from now, Top 40 pop music and hip-hop are likely going to have followed modern rock music onto the internet, with many stations in those formats moving to adult contemporary, urban contemporary, or oldies in order to keep going. You'll also see a lot more sports, news/talk, and of course, religious stations on FM radio. I've been noticing ESPN Radio colonizing the FM wavelength in a few cities over the last few years, and it doesn't look like it's slowing down. KevinR1990 (talk) 17:33, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

What do I think? Listening to gospel music is a great way of practicing your beliefs without actually thinking about what it entails. It keeps up with the times to make sure it doesn't try to stand out. Makes the religious feel modern, feel up to date. It maintains normalcy in the most religious body of power in the world. It makes them feel like they are progressing, when in reality they are not. When you listen to music played in the style of blues and country, you don't get that.

Being a religious person person myself. One who enjoyed and delved into the realms of hard rock to extreme metal. My piers called me a redneck for a reason. You know. I only go here for one reason, and that's because I came across a statement that described religious people as degenerate pieces of garbage. You know, like me. Every time I think about those statements. I wouldn't be bothered to listen to music. Sometimes not for weeks, just knowing people hated you. I've become extremely hostile towards my friends because of it.

I guess I really am a religious tool. Breadbasketbomb (talk) 09:51, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

The stations I mention are harmless compared to those you mention and do not emit gospel music, or at least not what you in US understand as that. All the music broadcasted there is Christian pop or at best rock (no metal). As for the content, most is harmless -just talking and talking about Bible passages and Christ, asking a minister to pray for someone or something...-. What concerns me are those bits of NWO -Catholic Church included-, negation of Evolution, talking about the Revelation events going to happen, or even already happening and similar gems of BS. Those things are not seen the same way when you've them closer, even if nobody gives a fuck about them, than when they're at thousands of kilometers away.

Another issue are people preaching, even if fortunately Chick tracts have not arrived here (yet). Not those as JW or others, who are on transited places giving brochures -and just targetting immigrants, by the way-, or those who simply are there singing or whatever but those who assault you with a Bible or brochures of their churches for... you know, and even if you're not interested and give them your arguments keep harassing you (I've had issues with that kind of people). Some time ago, a woman who likes to preach in the subway transversing the entire train several times got into a discussion with someone who disliked her ideas. It ended with her being thrown out of the train as she began to say (in loud voice?) said man was a sinner, or at least that's what I was told.

Long history short, if I'm interested in what you've to offer I'll go wherever is. Otherwise, whizz off. --Panzerfaust (talk) 13:55, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

A reminder for people to check their homonyms - piers and peers.

As for the 'stand and deliver (message deliverers)' - 'by their deeds shall you know them' and 'talk is cheap' (and the person who picks up a bit of rubbish and puts it in the bin has contributed more to the world). 82.44.143.26 (talk) 16:49, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

The Grauniad is starting to become a waste of time...

...or at least this video on the First Lady seemingly refusing to hold Drumpf's hand is by itself a waste of 13 seconds. Is this news site becoming so reactionary to everything Trump does it risks becoming a gossip magazine? A conspiracy site? Good thing the site didn't ask questions as to why Melania didn't notice him holding out his hand. —Evo and Meta (speak, speak) | Look at what I've done! 22:32, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

All the half decent British newspapers are shriveling up, and their websites are becoming more clickbaity. It looks like soon only the crap like the Express and Sun will remain. 94.1.173.14 (talk) 15:13, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

As we speak news like Fox and the Sun are dying off and being replaced with Breibart. So it's probably even worse than that. —Evo and Meta (speak, speak) | Look at what I've done! 02:07, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Basically the sane newspapers are drifting towards neoliberalism, and the ones that are already so (CNN, NBC) are Democrat apologists. —Evo and Meta (speak, speak) | Look at what I've done! 02:09, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Article on online media manipulation and disinformation

Media Manipulation Up th uhhand Disinformation Online by Alice Marwick and Rebecca Lewis. It's a dive into attention-hacking efforts, with a particular focus on far-right radicalization. Understanding why their methods work might help us refute them more efficiently. It's also a decent read. Here's the executive summary:

• Internet subcultures take advantage of the current media ecosystem to manipulate news frames, set agendas, and propagate ideas.
• Far-right groups have developed techniques of “attention hacking” to increase the visibility of their ideas through the strategic use of social media, memes, and bots—as well as by targeting journalists, bloggers, and influencers to help spread content.
• The media’s dependence on social media, analytics and metrics, sensationalism, novelty over newsworthiness, and clickbait makes them vulnerable to such media manipulation.
• While trolls, white nationalists, men’s rights activists, gamergaters, the “altright,” and conspiracy theorists may diverge deeply in their beliefs, they share tactics and converge on common issues.
• The far-right exploits young men’s rebellion and dislike of “political correctness” to spread white supremacist thought, Islamophobia, and misogyny through irony and knowledge of internet culture.
• Media manipulation may contribute to decreased trust of mainstream media, increased misinformation, and further radicalization.

αδελφός ΓυζζγςατΡοτατο (talk/stalk) 03:42, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Interesting. Reminiscient of the vogue media manipulation strategy known as trading up the chain, no? And actually — at this point, we should probably be writing RW its very own article on media manipulation. Thoughts? Reverend Black Percy (talk) 05:09, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Back when leftists were still able to score political successes, they freely used comedy and troll tactics. Remember Abbie Hoffman? Roel van Duijn? Lenny Bruce, even? The current left have made themselves quite unattractive by acting like a pearl-clutching establishment smug in their self-anointed moral superiority. - Smerdis of Tlön, ^{LOAD "*", 8, 1.} 17:31, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Speaking of left-wing trolls, did you miss this?[5] Bongolian (talk) 20:09, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

@Smerdis ...so that came off sounding a tad defensive, don't you think? All I was saying was just; "Hi Ratwikians! We should have an article on all sorts of media manipulation, because that stuff would be good to learn about, right?". Aside from that — I don't even speak partisan, so... I'm really just left nodding and smiling in confusion. (e.g "Back when leftists were still able..."? *nods and smiles confusedly*) Reverend Black Percy (talk) 22:47, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Well, maybe. I'm more reacting to the content of the PDF in question. It made a number of good points, but I thought it undermined itself somewhat by referring to 'male privilege' and similar constructs as self-evident truths, and other evidence of Not Getting It. And what's most vexing is that those bits of the text appear in the middle of passages that seem to accept that this troll culture consists mostly of very marginalized people, for whom the promise of 'male privilege' is about as bankable as junk mail from Publisher's Clearing House. It may well be a text meant for the edification of believers rather than evangelism, but the effect is rather like having your own behavior analyzed in terms of original sin, which would likely annoy you as a rhetorical turn. Contemporary identitarian leftism seems to produce more theologians than evangelists, and more would-be inquisitors than either; but this may be true of all faiths at all periods. What is the color of the pill to take that makes you a believer in things like 'male privilege'? - Smerdis of Tlön, ^{LOAD "*", 8, 1.} 02:48, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Unrelatedly

A substantially less venerable forum has also mentioned us. I thought "kizzmybutt", "Snarelure", "Gigastrength", and "King_Martha" had somewhat decent thoughts. αδελφός ΓυζζγςατΡοτατο (talk/stalk) 03:42, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

I wouldn't click on that link if I were you, it sent me to some scam website saying I had viruses. Christopher (talk) 14:52, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Seems fine to me. (I've Adblock, if that matters.) Herr FuzzyKatzenPotato (talk/stalk) 15:56, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

It's fine now, just went on it again. Christopher (talk) 16:15, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

Not too sure myself. It is a 13 months old site hosted in the USA to a c/- spanish address, a gmail account, and in the name of a gentleman who also owns a few dozen other addresses, which all seem to be mainly scrapes of 4chan hosted in various countries with the same names/address/email/phone. There's a few orange flags on his LinkedIn account, but they might be translation ambiguities.

Thrice in 7-8 different pages on his sites => giving focus to the page tried to run an instance of PHP mCrypt - a buggy, depreciated encryption command which hasn't been updated since 2007 and has been declared abandonware. Considering the background on his LinkedIn that just shouldn't be something any page of his should be doing.

I've intentionally not cited sources to err on the side of caution with regards to the obvious, but yeah this is a site I'm going to avoid. Daev (talk) 17:07, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

I was proud to see that the many posts recommending RW came not from people who were fanatically promoting RW as flawless — but rather, from people who were themselves psychologically capable of taking the good with the bad and integrating it all into a cohesive, nuanced and generally fair account (read: people who were not overcome with splitting).

Furthermore, I enjoyed observing how the vast majority of the anti-RW commenters — triggered gators/manospherians/kekistanians/woomeisters aside — came from people who obviously had not read the two most important articles for getting a clue about what RW is even about.

All in all — every instance of frank opposition to RW came from various incompetents, while none of our supporters came across as mouth-frothing zealots even in recommending our site. In other words: win-win. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 05:53, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Incompetents!?! I'm not even a dissenter! Oh, Crap, I just took exception to something that wasn't explicitly about me, didn't I? Ask me about the Keystone XL five years ago. Gaul Dernitt (talk) 06:07, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Unrelatedy AF

Also you guys are forgetting family and fetal alcohol syndrome. Democrats are bad because UNions are bad because dad Isn't union. Not joking, this is a real/impossible to defeat argument. I guess it's nihilism for this boy scout Gaul Dernitt (talk) 06:47, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Lindsay and Boghossian's Sokal-style hoax: What are your thoughts?

What are your thoughts on James Lindsay and Peter Boghossian's antics via their Sokal-style hoax "The conceptual Penis as a Social Construct", where they basically tried (and, in my opinion, failed) to take gender studies down a peg. And what's happening to the atheist/skeptic community? It's all about point-scoring now.Levi Ackerman (talk) 08:07, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

My neat and ordered two cents: PZ nails this one perfectly (and similar conclusions on the stunt are drawn by others here and here). And I say that especially as a fan of the original Sokal hoax. I honestly think Boghossian made himself look kinda stupid pulling this move (assuming PZ has all the facts straight in his analysis).

My messy fistful of unsorted change: as far as I'm aware, I'm certainly no enemy of Boghossian (admittedly, I keep few enemies). In other words, I have no prior beef with the man — though, I must admit I don't know much about him (or the company he keeps). Much of what little I know of Boghossian comes from the fact that he has, on occasion, said (or written) some short saying I've deemed as fully quoteworthy.

I also happen to own one of his books (Manual for Creating Atheists), and while I found it to feel much more "broscience"-y (think Joe Rogan in its style and tone) than I had anticipated, it was ultimately not without its merits, either. I would probably recommend it on its own — however, if I was asked to recommend it comparatively; e.g. via listing my personal "top Atheist books", then atleast some 30-odd titles (all from other authors) would score higher than it on my list.

So, then — speak of the harm wrought by attempting to flame too gleefully — I'm not here to spew vitriol on a longstanding nemesis or something. But, conversely, I'm not here to wash a snowy white and wipe the man's bottom, either. In short, I'm Lawful Neutral on the issue (and on Boghossian). But even so, I personally find that two things in particular stand out about this whole stunt, which just make me cringe in real life.

Firstly; the fact that this stunt is just so painfully derivative — even to the point of openly trying to leech cred from Sokal's brilliant original hoax. Forget paying homage to Sokal; instead, based in part on the impression made by their unwarranted confidence in their "findings", they seem to have been claiming this as the "Sokal 2.0"! But any new and improved Sokal hoax, this is not. Never mind the fact that — back in the day — Sokal had himself graciously pointed out that no wild conclusions could be drawn, even from his (successful) "experiment". Boghossian, in all his drive to ape after Sokal, apparently missed that side of the original story.

Secondly; Boghossian just seems filled with schadenfreude — basically, foaming salivating visibly by the mouth. And not just to the point of it all becoming a bit unappealing, but — crucially — to the very point where Boghossian seems to lose hold of which conclusions, if any may reasonably be drawn about gender studies (read: his favorite anti-fandom) on the basis of his failed stunt.

And that's a sad sight on its own — the fact that Boghossian seems so horny fired-up to just bash gender studies, no matter what, that even an objectively pointless stunt (like the one he just pulled) is being promoted to the world by him as if it were some sort of "significant blow" or milestone in a struggle. It's certainly neither.

And, best/worst of all (take your pick), the stunt failed not by virtue of any particular quality inherent to gender studies, per se — but because the stunt itself was so incompetently designed and executed in a manner so profoundly lacking in purpose. I mean, I'm frankly amazed Boghossian didn't just scrap the whole project when they had to start reaching for the checkbook in order to force this thing past the very same initial hurdle it would've had to have passed on its own for the stunt to have any semblance of a point to begin with. It boggles the mind (sunk cost bias, anyone?).

I mean, even as a sort-of "relative peer" of his — certainly a well-wisher — I simply am not able to follow Boghossian here, in his highly personal (and, clearly, emotionally motivated) line of reasoning. And never mind following it — even then, Boghossian's stunt just looks rather silly from the outside. I imagine, even when seen from the flattering ideological vantage point of "right next to him".

In other words; my critique of Boghossian's stunt ironically has about as little to do with the actual state of gender studies as Boghossian's failed hoax has to do with the same. As a tediously obvious aside: of course there are problems, both numerous and varied, which do indeed plague much of contemporary gender studies (broadly speaking). This comes as no surpise, considering that all non-stagnant areas of the humanities are beset by issues. Though — depending on the metric by which you measure — certain outstanding issues are doubtless unique to the field of gender studies. But I digest. At any rate, I hope I've been perfectly upfront about my ongoing satisfaction with the original Sokal hoax.

So, as such — assuming I haven't underestimated how redpilled Boghossian might have become as of late — I'm likely front row center in Boghossian's intended target audience. I should be the easiest for Boghossian to impress here. And yet, all this stunt did was gross me out a bit.

Indeed, I'm making this critical case based on the simple impression — which must surely be recognizable to anyone who isn't as blinded by personal axe grinding as Boghossian — that, plain and simple, this particular stunt just isn't any type of purported "reasoned exercise in postmodernism vs the Enlightenment" or the likes. Instead, this whole thing seems to me primarily a product of unchecked biases — not of 'reason', in any Enlightenment sense.

And reading through it all — once the dreadful labouring of the point (in this failed stunt) is allowed to shine through — is, psychologically, sort of like being invited to sit through an embarassing airing of Boghossian's own dirty laundry.

It's a bit like witnessing one gargantuan Freudian slip of sorts, on the part of Boghossian. Adding insult to injury, Boghossian (as town crier) megaphones this whole charade to the public as decidedly "a failure on part of the enemy", as opposed to something like "a patently weird move on his part". The cringe is real. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 13:58, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Can it be described as a c--- up? 82.44.143.26 (talk) 15:23, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Can? Absolutely. Should be? *insert 3000 page pedantic internet argument where the people who are probably right give up and go home, leaving a small circlejerk behind*. The short version of my opinion is that you really can't undermine the credibility of a field by proving that there are credulous people involved with it somewhere. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 17:59, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Especially when that "credulity" was the result of you bribing them to please accept the very same nonsensical "gender studies" paper you — a minute later — indignantly spin around to loudly complain you "just can't believe got accepted" This whole stunt really does come across as mean-spirited, compared to the genuinely witty Sokal hoax... Reverend Black Percy (talk) 21:54, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Previously discussed here. I call bullshit on them. They had a point about predatory journals, but they had the nerve to jump the gun until they hit the mesosphere to say that "gender studies are powered by man-hating folks" because a low-impact pay-to-publish journal had published a research paper equivalent to a used sanitary napkin. Though their paper is intentionally unreadable, their post on Skeptic has a wordy writing style that makes it difficult to comprehend. It comes naturally to them that their writing sucks. They can look at themselves if they want examples of terrible writing because, god, they're a chore to read.

This already damning characterization of our hoax understates our paper’s lack of fitness for academic publication by orders of magnitude.

However, in the short term, pay-to-publish may be a significant problem because of the inherent tendencies toward conflicts of interest (profits trump academic quality, that is, the profit motive is dangerous because ethics are expensive)

These facts cast considerable doubt on the facile defense that Cogent Social Sciences is a sham journal that accepted “The Conceptual Penis as a Social Construct” simply to make money. As a result, wherever Cogent Social Sciences belongs on the spectrum just noted, there are significant reasons to believe that much of the problem lies within the very concept of any journal being a “rigorous academic journal in gender studies.”

Sokal’s aim was to demonstrate that fashionable linguistic abuses (especially relying upon puns and wordplay related to scientific terms), apparent scientific authority, conformity with certain leftist political norms, and flattery of the academic preconceptions of an editorial board would be sufficient to secure publication and thus expose shoddy academic rigor on the part of postmodernist scholarship and social commentary.

The scientific community was exuberant that Sokal burst the postmodern bubble because they were fed up with postmodernists misusing scientific and mathematical terms to produce jargon-laden nonsense and bizarre social commentary carrying the apparent gravitas of scientific terminology.

The most potent among the human susceptibilities to corruption by fashionable nonsense is the temptation to uncritically endorse morally fashionable nonsense. That is, we assumed we could publish outright nonsense provided it looked the part and portrayed a moralizing attitude that comported with the editors’ moral convictions. Like any impostor, ours had to dress the part, though we made our disguise as ridiculous and caricatured as possible—not so much affixing an obviously fake mustache to mask its true identity as donning two of them as false eyebrows.

Sokal exposed an infatuation with academic puffery that characterizes the entire project of academic postmodernism. Our aim was smaller yet more pointed. We intended to test the hypothesis that flattery of the academic Left’s moral architecture in general, and of the moral orthodoxy in gender studies in particular, is the overwhelming determiner of publication in an academic journal in the field.

--It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 22:49, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

What a joke. Firstly, I detest recieving a lecture on the impact of the (admittedly wonderful) Sokal affair from two people who barely seem to have understood it properly themselves — as if my calling out the stillborn nature of their bastardized version of Sokal's ingenius plan places me under direct suspicion of being some sort of gender studying postmodernist myself!?

Popper would turn in his grave at the sight of such an overly flexible model of interpretation — if we praise their stunt, that proves gender studies are stupid; and if we lambast their stunt, that also proves gender studies are stupid. (And my argument isn't even that "gender studies aren't stupid", for that matter.)

A lecture, for the record, seemingly being given primarily so that the lecturers may bask themselves in the reflected glory of Sokal's historic stunt (they'll need it) and, likewise, to defensively wrap themselves in the guise of Sokal, in the hope that the tomatoes we so deservedly pelt them with be mistaken, by some passersby, for the mere unjust vengeance of a rightfully Sokal-hoaxed gaggle of haters. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 23:19, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Final Definitive Proof of Intelligent Design

June Bugs. Ray thinks bananas are bananas? Nah, June Bugs are everywhere, despite the fact that 'June Bug Procreation' in a Google search returnettyy d a video of 'June Bugs in May aHA Shitty name!' in the top three videos. From my experience, June Bugs only lie on their backs or fly right at you. How would these super scary bugs survive for a little over 6000 years if God didn't just make them up every summer?

Being said, where are all the Dinosaurs and Dragons? And why is n' t society perfect since we all descended from superNoah? A Junebug just suggested I eat blueberries, do I do it? And when do I find the time to write this down as a thing that literally happened?

I'm clearly not a moral person, oh, foo -Gaul Dernitt (talk)

Blueberries are in season and everyone should get them right now and I don't know why life is pain forever because of this but women sure suck THE BIBE 1:1Gaul Dernitt (talk) 06:25, 27 May 2017 (UTC)Which

Are you real or a random text generator? 86.146.99.29 (talk) 21:26, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Blueberries go great with word salad, I hear. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 22:28, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Poll- what words come to mind when you hear the name, "Trump"

Here is some- Plague, virus, infection, festering wound, cancer, rat, monster, jack ass, shit head, snake oil salesman. --Rationalzombie94 (talk) 14:05, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Yakety Sax 94.1.173.14 (talk) 18:14, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Reverend Black Percy (talk) 20:48, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

There's actually a pro Trump video featuring Yakety Sax as a music bed. Leuders (talk) 21:53, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

'The last...' 31.49.137.244 (talk) 21:17, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Me thinks there's an impeachment in the horizon --Panzerfaust (talk) 21:51, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Ultimate Goat!!!--S.H. DeLong (talk) 03:02, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Apotheosis of American culture. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 18:08, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Remembering that he was in the WWE. 2d4chanfag (talk) 05:58, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Bleh!-💠💿☝️ (talk) 04:50, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Word Wildlife Executive?

Welterweight Wrestling Exhibitionist?

Wonky Worldview Expressionist?

Even the captcha joined in - suggesting 'underpants' 31.49.115.220 (talk) 21:22, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Speaking out of my butthole and using my semi-fallible sense of political instincts, I think the anti-Trump resistance is backfiring. The Tea Partiers and birthers never rose to the level of vitriol and hatred that streams out 24/7. What it's doing is strengthening Trump. Don't believe it? By all means, compare Trump to Nixon. Nixon remains to this day, the most popular vote getter in the nation's 228 year history, save George Washington.

I never was an enthusiastic Tru!p supporter. I'd still vote for him over Hillary Clinton. But with each senseless barb aimed at him, my sympathy grows. I even felt the same way toward Obama in his early presidency, until Obama started lying and fuckin up.

Sooner or later Trump will address the nation in a primetime Oval Office speech. It won't be like past presidents. And he's gonna put the mindless cocksuckers in their place. nobs 02:57, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Changed my mind about "Ultimate Goat" my new word is"Goatfucker".--S.H. DeLong (talk) 03:57, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

hawt R nawt

https://u.nya.is/ummkji.png https://u.nya.is/hmdeuf.png https://u.nya.is/zvhpkz.png https://u.nya.is/qrwpll.png https://u.nya.is/uwkvea.png https://u.nya.is/losdln.png

this user possesses genuine curiosity and enquires as to the opinion of others regarding such manner of racy advertisement clickbaits and the encounter rate of these ads on the end of the others.FAMAS (Talk) (Contribs) [[6]] [[7]] 14:35, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Who cares? Christopher (talk) 15:19, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

"... encounter rate of these ads on the end of the others." What? 94.1.173.14 (talk) 15:25, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

FAMAS isn't particularly easy to understand, I think "encounter rate of these ads on the end of others" means how many people click on these ads? I have no idea. Christopher (talk) 15:28, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

I think he means 'how often do other people see ads like these?' FAMAS, you know that Google gives you ads based on browsing history, right.. Face me, swab! 18:33, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Why are you so obsessed with clickbait? you've posted about it before and you were very adamant that your post stayed. Christopher (talk) 15:42, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

Possibly 66 (anyone wish to contort the (James) 1 or 6 into the reference?) 82.44.143.26 (talk) 16:58, 23 May 2017 (UTC)

>Not uesing add blocker in 2017 2d4chanfag (talk) 02:50, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

@Famas: Use Adblock, you'll almost never see ads like this again. Ads like this suck, they're just "sex sells" in pixel form. At least the "MIRACLE DIET" or "DOCTORS HATE THIS" ads have some funky images. Cømяade FυzzчCαтPøтαтø (talk/stalk) 03:24, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

@Famas ...aand that's enough serial link pastes out of "that user" for quite a while, thanks. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 05:03, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

id rather see an ad or two if it means getting content gratis. i am more concerned when ads tailored to what google discovered from reading your emails.AMassiveGay (talk) 05:48, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Guys, I'm sorry. FAMAS was one of my robots who got away from me, I didn't finish uploading the "How to speak HU-MAN" file. Also, THAT USER picked his own name. I was gonna name him Johnny 6.Asaac Isimov (talk) 14:39, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

UK elections are so fucking exciting

It's like watching a TV show or something. Will Tony Blair get put in the Gulag ? Will Tory tears become a national drink ? Is May actually trying to lose ? The wait is to long, I can't stand it.

On a more serious note, what do you thing will happen ? Diacelium (talk) 21:13, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

trump will some how win... don't ask how. (Maybe the Russians know) 2d4chanfag (talk) 22:39, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

See, this is why liberal journalists have no credibility. 20 years ago, both men and women journalists made it a point we should know they all had a big boner in their pants for Tony Blair. Now they ask, 'Where did this piece of shit come from?'. nobs 03:07, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Oh no, some people change their opinions based on 20 years of stuff happening - those librul fucks! 88.105.29.192 (talk) 16:44, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Disgusting, people dare to change their opinions about someone? Christopher (talk) 16:56, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Why does this study from First Monday list cracked as a conspiratorial website?

According to this study, which rates Rationalwiki at the top of debunking websites, Cracked is at the bottom of the table for conspiracy websites, which makes me wonder which of the 15 conspiracy theories this study quantifies search engine results for is supported on cracked? X-Factor (talk) 22:14, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

It's not the only weird thing in that study. They have Daily Mail listed as a neutral source. They have Time Magazine (content.time.com), Slate, and The Onion (!) listed as debunking sites. The study seems like a case of letting the "new methodology" dictate the outcome without having any reality checks about what is actually getting measured. Bongolian (talk) 00:55, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

"Peer Reviewed Journal On The Internet" Were the peer reviewers high?—€h33s3βurg3rF@€3  (talk • stalk) 00:59, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

If an idiot-produced paper is accepted by other, similar idiots — then technically, the paper has passed peer review. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 16:38, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

As we're in agreement the study is bullshit, maybe we should reduce the number of links to it? Christopher (talk) 16:43, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

What's funny is also that we tend to cite just that study, when Google Scholar has no lack of mentions for the search term "RationalWiki". Reverend Black Percy (talk) 17:08, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

It's the only study that includes RW in estimates of visibility on conspiracy theories. *Shrug* FuzzyCatPotato of the Trusty Chessboards (talk/stalk) 19:25, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps it should be removed from just these two pages: RationalWiki and RationalWiki:Fundraiser. The others don't matter much. Bongolian (talk) 20:17, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

I removed it from all of the pages that weren't talk pages or non collaborative essays. Christopher (talk) 20:40, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Lock Him Up! Lock Him Up!

Everyone now knows that Comrade Trumski is a Russian mole, but is that all? But there is also a possibility that he is a triple-agent - a deep-cover Muslim:

• Jesus was a wine-drinker, but wine-drinking is forbidden in the Quran, and so Trumski, as a good Muslim is a tee-totaler.
• Dancing is frowned upon by Muslims, and so Trumski, as a good Muslim does not dance.
• Jesus said, "Sell all you have and give the money to the poor." Mark 10:21, but Muslims beleive that wealth is a gift from God, and so Trumski, as a good Muslim...
• Jesus said, "Any man who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery." Mark 10:11, but multiple marriages are allowed by the Quran and so Trumski, as a good Muslim, has three wives.
• Jesus said, "If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off! It is better for you to enter into life maimed, than to have two hands and go to Hell." Mark 9:43 But Trumpski uses his hand to molest married women, and then boasts that he can use his hand to "grab them by the pussy".

And so on...^{— Unsigned, by: Wodenoz / talk / contribs}

Um.....Wow. Huh.--Rationalzombie94 (talk) 01:59, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

It's a parody of this, Wodenoz isn't the first person to do it though. Christopher (talk) 09:31, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Informative! Thanks. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 17:06, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

My neighbor is a total moron

In one of the Bon Fire pits at the apartment complex, he started a fire using diesel fuel! Plus he got drunk and wanted to add more fuel! How the other apartments didn't burn down is amazing. I like my apartment and I am sure as hell not wanting it to be a pile of burning rubble. The land lord was not too happy when the guy who lived in the apartment before him was a total drunk then started dangerous fires.--Rationalzombie94 (talk) 20:06, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Diesel fuel is perfectly fine for starting fires, it does not blow up like gasoline, and is the recommended accelerant to use for starting bonfires. Although flammable, it does not emit vapors as much as gasoline does. Diesel engines ignite it using compression, not spark plugs. NolanSyKinsley (talk) 04:27, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Actually, Doritos are the best firestarter. Bicycle^wheel 12:01, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Supressed eyewitness footage emerges

This is how I picture your neighbour. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 16:42, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

The kleptocracy of South Africa

Hi all So whats happening is My country is now not just a white monopoly but also the personal treasure chest for that crook I mean president Zuma and the Gupta Family.^{— Unsigned, by: ThatSouthAfrican / talk / contribs}

On talk pages, please sign your comments using four tildes (~~~~) or by clicking on the sign button: on the toolbar above the edit panel. (You can indent successive talk page comments using one more colon (:) for each line.) Thank you. Christopher (talk) 09:56, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Forgive my stupidity

...but I actually wasn't aware of just how nutty the historical roots of the "modern" organic farming (aka organic agriculture) craze really were until just the other day. While I've been doing my homework on the practice (as best I've been able) for years now, I'd somehow missed this particular, introductory shit nugget about its history.

It turns out — and this is no strawman — organic farming actually loaned quite a bit from biodynamic agriculture (of all things ) — known for its focus on "emphasizing spiritual and mystical perspectives", as it were.

Indeed, citing directly from TOW:

Biodynamic agriculture was the first modern system of agriculture to focus exclusively on organic methods.[16][17][18][19]: Its development began in 1924 with a series of eight lectures on agriculture given by Rudolf Steiner.[20][21] These lectures, the first known presentation of what later came to be known as organic agriculture,[16] were held in response to a request by farmers who noticed degraded soil conditions and a deterioration in the health and quality of crops and livestock resulting from the use of chemical fertilizers.[22] The one hundred eleven attendees, less than half of whom were farmers, came from six countries, primarily Germany and Poland.[16] The lectures were published in November 1924; the first English translation appeared in 1928 as The Agriculture Course.[23]

That's right — Rudolf Steiner rears his ugly head once more. In my journey as some type of would-be Skeptic, Steiner and his goons keep popping up in my path when I least expect it (and, admittedly, making asses of themselves); they're basically my Team Rocket at this point.

Even so, I struggle to wrap my head around just how prolific Steiner really was sometimes — a woo dynamo! Like some kind of deranged bizarro world version of Carl Sagan/James Randi/that one really impactful Skeptic or scientist you like and agree with me on. Yeah, him. Or her. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 03:44, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

You'll thank me later.

"Prepare for trouble."
"And make it double."

—€h33s3βurg3rF@€3  (talk • stalk) 04:36, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

So let me get this straight: for 10 billion years prior to 1924, humans were engaged in synthetic agriculture and ate nothing but plastic and nylon. Then when this marvelous discovery was translated into English in 1928, it was just in time for the Great Depression which forced millions to sell the family farm and quit agriculture. Does that cover it? nobs 05:10, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

@CBF Oh my fucking God, I could kiss you! Right on your sour lips! Thank you for making my day with that shoop — the belly laugh it gave me probably bought me a week's worth of life extension (at some future intensive care unit).

@nobs What makes you think people can be grown agriculturally? Sounds like the same relativist thinking that killed 100 hundred million people Reverend Black Percy (talk) 07:05, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

I've tried the nylon and plastic diet. The problem I run into is that the stuff doesn't really need preservatives. And I need a lot of preservatives in my diet; otherwise I start smelling bad. - Smerdis of Tlön, ^{LOAD "*", 8, 1.} 17:56, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Doesn't the current industrial agriculture make farming lands infertile and pollute phreatic zones though ? (I'm on another computer but it's me, Diacelium) 213.41.236.78 (talk) 07:32, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Oh, don't be confused — the argument isn't that crappy agricultural practices are somehow not crappy. In fact, the argument is precisely that crappy agricultural practices are most crappy indeed.

Prominently featuring among said crappy agricultural pratices, we find: any farming practice undertaken in the age of smartphones which seriously relies on the use of astrology (see here). Reverend Black Percy (talk) 07:48, 30 May 2017 (UTC)

Are there credible alternatives to current industrial agriculture though ? 213.41.236.78 (Diacelium in disguise) (talk) 08:53, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

How about expanding our Rudolf Steiner article. Also we could use an article on the founder of the organic movement, J. I. Rodale. Particularly noteworthy is Rodale's ironic death (see the WP article). Bongolian (talk) 08:02, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

We must.

And, perhaps less urgently, we could indeed use an article on Rodale as well.

Concerning his death — this was a fascinating read, and as it happens, the text speaks volumes on the biases of memory.

We always think we've got a clue. But as a matter of fact, we rarely do. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 14:55, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

My two cents on YEC

I wonder if those who defend YEC, especially the loony fringe who thinks everything, not just fossils, that shows they're wrong were put in place by Satan or even God Himself, have thought on the very deep implications it would have if they were right -either the Universe, an Universe as the one Science has revealed us, was created by and has in charge someone who... well just read the OT, or it's just a big lie placed by someone who either has not been inexplicably eliminated by the Boss when said Boss is said to be far more than capable of it, or it's a simply a big douchebag who breaks his own laws. Think about it. --Panzerfaust (talk) 22:38, 1 June 2017 (UTC).

As a former YEC, both yes and no. I thought about those implications, realized they couldn't be true and still have a god worthy of worship, and so came to the obvious conclusion that eventually science would agree with the Bible. Which led me to learn as much as I could about science, which led me to where I am now. I obviously can't speak for all YECs, and it's probable that those stuck in there haven't thought about it or, if they have, it just feeds into their persecution complex, and that they have the only real truth while everyone else is duped by Satan's lies. Onychoprion (talk) 22:51, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Just in case, don't take that comment as a personal insult. I often think about having the OT YHWH at basically cosmic scale and did not like at all the implications. --Panzerfaust (talk) 23:22, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

What comment wasn't supposed to insult? XD And yeah, the implications are pretty heavy. S'why I strayed away from those conclusions when I came to them. Checked my premises, etc. I should probably write a big long thing about my deconversion... -- Onychoprion (talk) 23:29, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

You've rediscovered the Omphalos hypothesis. Which really is airtight, if you choose to accept its premises. - Smerdis of Tlön, ^{LOAD "*", 8, 1.} 03:05, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

The thing is also that if God creates that shitty, small Universe described in the Bible but at the same time creates the fake one maybe he's not allmighty (is much less than that), as he chose the easy way instead of creating the kind of Universe as the real one that would befit to a far more powerful entity. And if Gawd is powerful enough to create the real Universe one has to wonder why he did not talk about his creations in the Bible or left clues to them, but at the same time is debatable why he'd be interested in just one small desert tribe of an unremarkable planet… you get the idea. Unless Christ had gone Messiah across the Universe (must be a sucking Eternity, dying horribly elsewhere.--93.191.139.10 (talk) 08:03, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Alternatively - the biblical quote to the effect 'when I was a child ... when I ceased being a child I put away childish things' can be interpreted (if you are so inclined) as - that was the way the universe was interpreted then, but when 'we generally (or the astronomers and others in particular) learnt more' we moved away from those earlier views.

And one can feel wonder at the universe and the things in it and feel that if there is 'a creative spirit' this was what was being created (and we sentients are responsible for the little trivialities on whichever planet we call Earth). 86.146.99.112 (talk) 10:28, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

It's mentioned in this wiki that the Adam and Eve myth it's a fine allegory of growing and have to agree 100% with it. It's a pity that while it was understarable in the past people took it (as other things as the Flood) as real, like Usher's date for the beginning of everything that were done with the little available (read: Bible), now after centuries of scientific advancement and overwhelming evidence for the contrary some still take all of that for real. --Panzerfaust (talk) 13:27, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

And now, something completely different.

Enjoy! Nerd271 (talk) 23:08, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Fascinating. What I want to see detected is what BICEP2 failed to find (basically some the signs left behind by cosmic inflation) --Panzerfaust (talk) 23:27, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

I'm afraid that remains beyond the reach of current detectors, which are barely able to detect the gravitational waves emitted from black holes, but not yet neutron stars. But never fear, for the next generation of gravitational wave detectors is already under development. Nerd271 (talk) 00:04, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Do you think one day we can detect a warp wave from a ship? (If possible) I can't w8 for a better detector. 2d4chanfag (talk) 06:21, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

There're other experiments ongoing (BICEP3, etc) looking for the same in similar ways. The thing is that those B-modes [seem to be very low], if they exist at all (I remember to have seen elsewhere estimated values of 0.01). As for the "warp", there's [this] claiming to look in the CMB for signals of intergalactic ships moving at almost c. Not warp a la Star Trek, but close enough. --Panzerfaust (talk) 07:29, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

In the Beginning

As a kid I used to have this book, In the Beginning by some guy named Brown. It was basically a long list of proofs of creationism. Unfortunately I don't have it anymore, but I saw it on Amazon for not too much money. Seems like the type of thing that'd be good for a side-by-side rebuttal, and probably a jumping-off point for a hydroplate theory article. Goo idea, or is it too obscure to worry about? Onychoprion (talk) 16:26, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Googling "In the Beginning" is unlikely to be any use, mind providing a link? Christopher (talk) 16:28, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Right, sorry. Here's the Amazon link: link. From what I remember it's very similar to 101 Evidences, at least in style. Onychoprion (talk) 16:44, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

I doubt it's anything we haven't seen before but I'd support a page for it. Christopher (talk) 17:09, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

A search on 'Brown In the Beginning' gives [8] with a download at [9]- I presume this is the book in question. 82.44.143.26 (talk) 17:40, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

That does appear to be the same book, thanks! Christopher (talk) 17:52, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Glad to be of help (the index is rubbish by the way). 82.44.143.26 (talk) 17:58, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Oh, thanks! Now I won't have to spend $30! Also, it's simultaneously exactly what I remember, and yet worse than I imagined. XD Onychoprion (talk) 15:15, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Even IF President Obama was Muslim- so fucking what?! The constitution protects freedom of religion. They also mention less than 1% of Kenya is atheist (they mentioned Obama's father "claimed" to be atheist), thing is that the statistic shows there are atheists.--Rationalzombie94 (talk) 02:37, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Did you post this in the right place? Christopher (talk) 17:39, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Climate skepticism in Brazil

Hello everyone.

I'm an 18 year old Brazilian student who graduated high school last year, and I have noticed a trend concerning climate change among academics in my country. In my high school years, 2 of the 3 Geography teachers I had were climate skeptics. I know they both studied Geography in Brazil's top college, the University of São Paulo (USP). Most school textbooks present the issue of climate change in a balanced way (they say most scientists accept it, but there are many who disagree with the concept, and its nature is controversial) I've been searching about it, and it seems that, according to Ricardo Augusto Felício, probably the leading climate skeptic (who was interviewed by a famous Brazilian talk show), 3 of the 5 professors in the Department of Climatology of USP's Geography School are climate skeptics. He claims the number is actually greater, since researchers fear admitting they don't believe in global warming because, according to him, study financing is cut to those who deny climate change.

I haven't ready their papers and I know almost nothing about this topic, but I'm listing some claims I've seen from their interviews such as [10] [11].

• According to Felício, it's absurd to call CO2 a pollutant, since it's very important to life in this planet. It wouldn't be reasonable to say plants generate their energy from a pollutant. Moreover, CO2 is only 0,033% of the Earth's atmosphere, which wouldn't be enough to have such a drastic effect on climate. Nevertheless, most CO2 comes from the sea, and humans emit less carbon dioxide than insects.
• Humans are only able to transform local climate, not global, according to Renato Crispiniano.
• The Ozone layer does not exist. According to Felício: "The concept of "layer" is a reduction of something that is much more complex. What happened is that, slowly, it became an entity. There is no such layer. What exist is the ozonosphere, part of the low stratosphere, where the probability of the existence of the ozone gas is greater, due to particular conditions. Consequentially, ozone presents itself as clouds, not as a layer, which are part of this region of the atmosphere where pressure is very slow (from 50 to 10mb, when on the surface, at sea level, it's 1013,25mb. Not even Gordon Dobson himself used terms such as "layer" or "ozone holes". They already knew the variations were extreme. From an hour to another, a variation of 1000% (one thousand) can be verified in ozone concentrations, due to its high reactivity. Simultaneously, it's important to emphasize that this gas is only produced because of ultraviolet-C radiation. No light, no ozone. It's that simple. For that reason, in the polar regions, its low concentration verified during their respective winters can be explained by the absence of solar light and not because of CFCs or other stuff like that. The differences between Earth's hemispheres made the anomalies about the South Pole higher than those in the North Pole. The scientists have always known this." According to Molion, CFC banning benefited large corporations that produced its replacements, and it happened because of economic interests, since CFC patents were about to expire.
• IPCC (Climate Panel) cannot be trusted, since most of its researchers are from other areas of knowledge, that have no relation to climate studies. Moreover, there is an effective censorship against those who disagree with the consensus. According to Ercília Steinke, a Geographer of UNB (University of Brasília, another one of Brazil's main universities), if someone makes a study questioning climate change, they are unlikely to be financed.
• Climate change can be explained by a natural cycle, and "warmists" ignore several causes, such as the sun.
• No warming since 2001.
• Ice naturally melts and regenerates, most data from ice melt is from the end of the summer, and it forms again after it.
• Climate change is considered a right-wing capitalist/imperialist ideology/agenda. "Warmists" such as Al Gore are known to profit from this idea using emotional arguments, such as videos of polar bears on melting ice, without presenting solid evidence. From a Marxist historical materialist perspective, it can be said that material relations (the infrastructure, or "base", according to Marx) prevail over the superstructure (ideology, laws, culture, etc.). The role of ideology is legitimizing the infrastructure. If past regimes have used God to sustain the economic system, such as absolute monarchy, global warming is a legitimizing ideology of late stage capitalism. Large corporations promote a "green consciousness" and sell "ecologically correct products" to stimulate consumption defend the idea of a "sustainable development" as an international consensus. CFC banning is an example of this, since it had economic interests. Therefore, it's a tool used by industrialized (imperialist) nations to keep client markets in underdeveloped countries and prevent them from industrializing and developing (which would increase global warming) through Carbon emission trading. Behind global warming, there are great economic interests from large corporations. The huge debate around "the lie known as global warming" prevents discussion about issues that really matter such as poverty, health and education.

I'm linking some scientific studies in Portuguese by Brazilian climate skeptics. Unfortunately, I don't think there are English versions.

• Demystifying Global Warming, by Luiz Carlos Baldicero Molion
• When the Sun shines, they flee to the shadow: the ideology of global warming
• Global warming: fraud or imminent catastrophe?, by Jairo de Moraes

--177.32.173.237 (talk) 02:08, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the links. ClickerClock (talk) 09:41, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Disconcerting -- I wonder how much of it is uniquely Brazilian, or just the trash output by the US climate-skeptic media machine. FuzzyCatPotato!™ (talk/stalk) 13:21, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Most of the arguments they're spouting look like PRATTs reheated from the denialist campaigns of American free-market think tanks, but the last one is where it gets interesting. In the West, and in the Anglosphere especially, climate change denialism and anti-environmentalism in general are almost exclusively the domain of right-wing capitalists, to the point where it is arguably the best litmus test of one's politics that exists. However, I wonder if things look different in the developing world. I remember reading somewhere that there was a wave of denialism in China in the early 2010s, around the time of the failed Copenhagen agreement, driven mainly by a belief that climate change was a Western myth promoted to keep the Third World, and booming China especially, down — the inverse of Donald Trump's opinions about the subject, if you will. Obviously, they've backtracked on that now that they're facing the consequences of unchecked environmental destruction, with Beijing now embracing green energy and trying to wind down coal consumption, but it shouldn't be surprising to see it crop up in other developing countries that aren't as far along that path as China is.

I also wonder what the environmental movement might look like today had it stayed focused on just conservationism instead of taking the environmental justice path in the '70s and '80s. Historically, the conservationists could get quite reactionary on the subject of race and immigration, largely driven by fear of overpopulation. Edward Abbey expressed some outstandingly racist views about Latin American immigrants, John Tanton started out with the Sierra Club before migrating to nativism, and while said Sierra Club nowadays is a firmly progressive organization, they used to have a vocal anti-immigrant (or "population stabilization") wing as late as 2004. While nativism has been essentially driven out of the environmental movement over the last thirty years or so, a scenario in which they remained a major force would likely provoke an anti-environmental backlash from the left. Lyndon LaRouche's anti-environmentalism was also originally derived from a Marxist, anti-imperialist perspective, claiming that it's a tool of the British royals (his pet bogeyman) to depopulate the planet; he's been consistent on banging that drum whether he's positioned himself as a leftist or a right-winger. KevinR1990 (talk) 15:32, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Bypassing all the bullshit rhetoric

Here's all you really need to know. The rest follows from it. All the best, Reverend Black Percy (talk) 15:31, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

covfefe

See the main article on this topic: Word salad

So the natural consequences a covfefe-centered political philosophy is the disdurnation of coordinated press surcats. This represents a serious problem for anyone trying to organize a covfefe counter postrum. If you were the president, how would you address the increasing pojtors? ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 14:40, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

SLOW DOWN! This talkpage's for regular postin', Not for fancy postin'!

Oh brother. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 14:48, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

"Brother"? Stop making up words and address the point, percy. (alternatively, google "covfefe") ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 15:02, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

[12] It's most likely a speed-tweeting induced typo of "coverage", as in "despite the negative press coverage...", caused by Trump's recent switch from Android to iPhone. Leuders (talk) 15:43, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Actually the Twitter account is being run by this chap. (Is an exorcism actually needed in this case?) 82.44.143.26 (talk) 17:34, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

"Oh! It's a joke! I get jokes! *horse laugh*"

But seriously — I thought you were having an embolism or something. My bad.

And surely; I can't be expected to Google every chunk of word salad that's posted to RW, looking for the hidden references and coded messages contained within! ...Can I? Reverend Black Percy (talk) 20:13, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's the secret code for the nucular briefcase --Panzerfaust (talk) 22:24, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Briefcase? Why; cause it's 'hard work' ruling leading the world's #1 best nation on Earth? You need to start freedoming internally, hippie — think 'touchdown', not 'great responsibility'. 23:20, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

I still have never headquartered or twittered. Presidential tweets are only covered because old people don't have Twitter. I mean, if everyone had Twitter why would a tweet be news? Coverage of a mistweet really only resonates as a positive in the Trump voting bloc.

Yeah, he mistweeted, who cares? Nobody on either side except the people who empathise with a mistweet. Leave him alone on this one, unTwitter him or whatever would be a more resonant move.Gaul Dernitt (talk) 04:26, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

oh that's oversold at this point. Well, better late than I'll just go wait in the car, no, it's fine.Gaul Dernitt (talk) 04:30, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Is the Unabomber right?

I mean, the wiki page here doesn't seem to do a good job of proving his points wrong. What if civilization is a mistake and we are just slaves to technology? Also isn't it science and civilization that is responsible for the environment being the way it is? ^{— Unsigned, by: Machina / talk / contribs}

He was right about some injustices of 21st century life, and wrong about others, and murdered people in a hopeless crusade to promote his ideology. I'd honestly say that's not entirely different from Osama Bin Laden in that whether he had a good point or two buried in his beliefs is basically irrelevant to his infamy. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 22:38, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Many of the ills the Unabomber attributed to the Industrial Revolution were in fact caused by the Neolithic Revolution some time before, though industrialism didn't help, and finance capital helped even less. Human societies can't be built around money, because we're programmed to build human societies, but not for the "laws" of economics or finance. - Smerdis of Tlön, ^{LOAD "*", 8, 1.} 20:17, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

So he was wrong about modern society but right in an indirect way? Does that mean he's right about going back to hunter gatherer tribes? Doesn't seem like a fix to me since history would just repeat itself at that point. But then, are we truly enslaved to technology? Or is tech just part of being human? Machina (talk) 23:27, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Again, we became slaves to technology long ago, when we took up agriculture and human societies became larger and acquired more tiers of social status. Voluntary reversion to hunter-gatherer became impossible right about then. You couldn't feed or house the larger agricultural population, and the elites who controlled the agricultural societies wouldn't allow it. So people who practiced agriculture found themselves trapped by it. - Smerdis of Tlön, ^{LOAD "*", 8, 1.} 03:03, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

So you're saying he was right? It's it really that awful that we are slaves to it? Then would going back to hunting and gathering be the right thing to do? It seems like those who support him think that the numbers that would die as a result would be worth the transition. On an unrelated note: do the users who write the articles here read all the sources that they cite? Machina (talk) 04:46, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

No, he wasn't right; the Industrial Revolution made things worse, to be sure, but the real problem as noted started with agriculture. Fortunately, intelligent life is a self-limiting phenomenon. - Smerdis of Tlön, ^{LOAD "*", 8, 1.} 16:00, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

I guess what I am referring to is more like the moral argument he was making. That going back to hunter and gatherer society would solve our problems. That technology is evil and the result of our issues. I wanted to know your and others thoughts on that. Would that really make things better? Or are we just turning the clock to repeat history again? I mean it seems to me like you agree with him but still use a computer (from what I get on your profile and history, though I'm likely wrong there). Machina (talk) 17:52, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Well, I disagree with him to the extent that I'm not in favor of mailing bombs to computer scientists. I don't think that reverting to hunter/gatherer is feasible either. It would require a massive cull of the human population; something I think is biologically inevitable, but am not looking forward to either. My preferred solution is to start treating money like an invasive species that needs to be controlled, because without adequate controls it tends to dominate cultural 'ecosystems' it gets established in. - Smerdis of Tlön, ^{LOAD "*", 8, 1.} 16:33, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

What about the psychological points he makes? Also if you agree with him then why use a computer and other technology? Isn't that hypocritical? Why not revert now to hunter gatherer if the cull is inevitable? How would you control money? It seems to me that technology itself is neutral and that if anything our misuse of it is just showing our flawed nature. It's man's fault not the technology. Machina (talk) 00:25, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

He's trivially right about leftist psychology, but right wing psychology has the same tendencies. Almost all activism comes from a core of hate-your-neighborism, an inability to accept the inevitable. I do think governments should intervene to protect settled ways of life, including jobs that are threatened by technology. "Agility" and "disruption" are enemies of the human race and should be treated as such. - Smerdis of Tlön, ^{LOAD "*", 8, 1.} 17:15, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you are getting at and I don't think that answers my question. Like if you agree with him why continue to use the computer and live with society? Also about not reverting (not that I want to) sooner? Machina (talk) 20:54, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Like what exactly? What was he right and wrong about? ^{— Unsigned, by: Machina / talk / contribs}

oh I don't know know maybe the part were he killed people. I think he played to mach D&D 'The Wars of Law and Chaos'. 2d4chanfag (talk) 07:39, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Most of Osama's complaints were bullshit of the worst form. For example, Al Qaeda was complaining about the poor starving Iraqi children, when the Sunni children were fine and it was the Shia children who were starving and for the most part, Al Qaeda wouldn't mind if the Shia all died. CorruptUser (talk) 14:01, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Uh, yeah, but he also quite correctly pointed out that American military interventionism was killing people and Americans don't care. You don't have to give him any credit for arriving at an obviously true sentiment, but even unhinged radicals tend to incorporate valid points among their crazy and unreasonable ones. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 15:19, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

What about his psychological arguments? I don't fully know them but it seemed like it was certered around strength and freedom, some people even say that people had more job freedom before industrialization. That technology was more efficient back then. Machina (talk) 23:27, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

some people might say that, but some people would be wrong. AMassiveGay (talk) 14:57, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Since his main argument was "blowing people up means I'm right" then no, he wasn't. Bicycle^wheel 10:00, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Do the people who make articles on here read all the sources they cite? I'm just checking. Machina (talk) 17:52, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Update?

Update the Mediawiki software and maybe get https for the site? ClickerClock (talk) 09:40, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Ask Trent to come out of hibernation and we can make it happen. The FCP Foundation (talk/stalk) 13:13, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Surely David Gerard could do something? What is it that only Trent can do? Christopher (talk) 17:37, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

For what it's worth, it seems that this discussion comes up every couple of months or so. Bongolian (talk) 03:32, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

As I just posted to the tech support page: In technical terms RationalWiki is a ghost wiki - 1.19 ahoy! Was someone going to rewrite the WIGO extension to work with 1.27? Wasn't me, and nobody else has stepped up; and we don't have SSL because I don't have load balancer access - and Trent hasn't answered my email in literally months. So I quit long ago and only bother fixing stuff when it's literally completely broken and easy because I still happen to have root. I have given up regarding this stuff as my personal problem - you know why there were no RMF meetings in 2015? It's 'cos literally nobody else elected took on the job of secretary, and I was already sick of turning the crank. Now we have an RMF board who show up, there's a great big blocker on the process of getting it out from under Trent, and it's called Trent. He wants to give it up, but he has to do the basic shit first. The blog doesn't work because he let the domain expire. I gave up bothering a year or so ago - David Gerard (talk) 14:24, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

He's embarrassed about what you did to the site DG and feels it is irrecoverable. 120.16.129.102 (talk) 15:48, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Ghost wiki? 31.49.115.240 (talk) 09:57, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Not to be confused with our article on ghosts. Reverend Black Percy (talk) 12:36, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

To be clear, the site's name is still RationalWiki.;)-💠💿☝️ (talk) 04:27, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Shouldn't resolving this be something for the RMF Trustees to figure out? Bongolian (talk) 05:10, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

I'm quite confused. Trent has Facebook? Doesn't he answer direct messsages on that? Sorry, I can not help that much as I am only literally starting to learn programming; aka so I can't update the WIGO extension. Carpetsmoker has a WIGO extension as you well know. I think I can try to help out with "converting stuff from table format A to table format B." ClickerClock (talk) 09:49, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Why not set up a new website that you do have control over and move all the content and community there? Make sure all the relevant people have access from day one. Kind of like years ago where Wikitravel got sick of their hosts and moved the site over to WikiVoyage. Of course, they hit the jackpot of getting the WMF to host them, so they never have to worry about hosting or fundraising again. 87.192.220.205 (talk) 10:03, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

You can ask any chaner that has done the same thing with any Chan#. Its not ez and alot of time investment. 2d4chanfag (talk) 10:54, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

A bit of light humor from the crazy

Thought I'd introduce some light humor here from a pretty loony place (note that this guy thinks Charles Manson is some kind of sage). Edit: Ok the page doesn't exist anymore, but the general theme was that he thinks pets are slaves and that humans have them as slaves because we ourselves are slaves.

https://forbiddentruthblog.com/2015/01/19/the-forbidden-truths-of-pet-ownership/ Machina (talk) 03:08, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Speaking of humor, the new Fun:Trump synonym generator is now (mostly) debugged. Enjoy! Bongolian (talk) 04:54, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

The link you provided doesn't work. Here's one that does.

And looking at the front page, wow is this guy a goldmine. The Charles Manson worship (found here, for the record) doesn't even begin to cover it; right now, on the front page alone, you can find articles referring to the Manila casino shooter, the Manchester concert bomber, and Omar Mateen as 'martyrs' fighting against the tyranny of Western society, as well as this lovely article in which he glorifies murder for its own sake and says that the only problem with it is that, if you do it, nobody will take your ideas seriously. Oh, and I haven't even gotten to his manifesto yet. This is some of the funniest stuff I've ever read. KevinR1990 (talk) 16:58, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

@Bongolian I got "Mac and Cheese Mao". this page is perfect Diacelium (talk) 22:44, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

How often 'purveyors of 'forbidden and/or hidden truth' reiterate the same material, much of which can be found in the public domain if you go looking for it - suffused with the same fantasies, and considering themselves 'legends in their own mind-(uni)verse.' 31.49.115.240 (talk) 21:53, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

My neighbour's cat bit me...

...after I suggested to her that, if cats had political views, they would be freecats on the land. Discuss. Bicycle^wheel 09:56, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Sabocat, is that you? Cømяade FυzzчCαтPøтαтø (talk/stalk) 15:01, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Is your tetanus up to date? Daev (talk) 18:38, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

The cat was wondering what took you so long to understand this basic fact (see the green box on page 10 here. 31.49.115.240 (talk) 09:55, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

BICYCLE!?! Woah woah wait WOAH, outta breath hold on. Did this cat have a birth certificate? Cause even if so, as an Ameican, I gotta say, your fault, obviously. Freemen/Freewomen/Freecats will abide no rules other than snatch and grab. Nothing wrong occurred. That cat is maybe a hero.Gaul Dernitt (talk) 03:59, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Hellooo toxoplasmosis! Reverend Black Percy (talk) 12:35, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Not the primary method of acquiring that illness. Failure to wash hands after interacting with cat waste is. No, the bigger risk for a bite is "cat scratch fever", because evolved killing machines and their microscopic allies. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 21:31, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Now that's the kind of real lightening up I like. Wash your hands. Especially if you get bit by anything. Bacteria Is the most efficient life form, on my kinda Ramirez scale. We may be no better than bacteria, but we have dreams, Con Sarnitt! Cats and bacteria, cat scratch fever is all the proof you need. Brilliant.Gaul Dernitt (talk) 08:20, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Is our society crazy?

I have been through a variety of things on the internet and some "alternative" pages as well. They seem to think society is crazy (the same people who stand behind Manson and the Unabomber).

Examples include: environment and it's destruction, money, deviation from evolution (like apparently technology is evil and we should go back to nature like we were meant to), locking people up for pot, billboards replacing trees, the culture restricts us and our self expression, war, the conditions of prison and prison itself, the media twisting truths and "keeping the sheep dull", hostility towards each other, government in general and intelligence agencies, that humans have become a slave to the world they built for themselves and the trinkets the enjoy (you get the idea).

I don't know how true any of that is to be honest, but it makes me wonder about society and if things are as alright as we think them to be. Machina (talk) 20:51, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

This has been going on for as long as civilization has existed. Maybe it's not society, but just all humans being irrational monsters with violent streaks throughout their history. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 21:06, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

You're touching on a lot. Personally I see our society ("western" society, if you will, or the globalized civilization in general) as misguided and short-sighted. Crazy? Potentially, but not "burn it all down" crazy that some people seem to have. A lot of the things you posted are more hard-green naturalism, which I don't personally subscribe to. I do think the destruction of the environment (more particularly the atmosphere and burning the Amazon for cow pastures than strip-mines) is a huge issue, the former because of long-term habitability, the latter because I think biodiversity's a good thing, and we could be losing dozens of penicillin-esque discoveries by wantonly destroying things. But that's related to the short-sightedness of our civilization.

The media, especially in the US, does play a part, as they're often run by short-sighted people same as the governments are. They're certainly getting paid enough to assume they don't need to worry about their grandchildrens' safety, since they'll be able to afford food even if the climate does go to hell, etc. I also don't see government as a problem, though there are problems with governments that can and should be fixed (corruption, e.g.). Government, like technology, isn't inherently evil or bad, and should be fixed/used for good rather than outright destroyed.

So in answer to your question, no I don't think society is crazy. A bit broken, sure, but nothing that can't be fixed. At least, as it stands. -- Onychoprion (talk) 21:20, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Society is crazy indeed (well, I think so), though technology is not the problem and anarcho-primitivism is definitively the solution. People don't seem to give human lives any value. There are people happy to see homeless people having their welfare cut because of alcoholism; when a company's marketing tactics end up in babies dying, they'll defend the company by asking question such as "do you want unemployment ?" (it's like corporations are gods or something). There are people telling that we shouldn't waste money on refugees and spend it on the homeless instead, and then will say to the homeless people that they're lazy and should get a job. People just don't care about others.

But no, the problem isn't technology though, and I don't see what could be a solution. Diacelium (talk) 10:07, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

i dislike the sentiment of 'society is crazy'. it smacks of arrogance. that if only people would listen to me then everyone then thing would be rosy. there are certainly issues but you cant address them without convincing people of the solutions. you are not going to convince if your first thought is that everything everyone is crazy, that they are racist, that they are stupid, they dont know whats good for them. its no different to believing you are the only free thinker in a world of sheeple. its facile and merely justifies to yourself the failure to persuade. we've seen it with brexit and we've seen it with trump - its all the others fault while we downplay the hope and fears of the people we claim to be for at same time deriding their their racism and stupidity. AMassiveGay (talk) 10:33, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Some aspects of society-as-it-is will always be crazy, broken, include people with outdated views/who do not like 'the other' etc - and some of the 'craziness' is just the normal froth of views being aired to see whether they are viable, to start 'debates' etc - and some of it is 'when did society change from what I am familiar with?'. 86.146.100.83 (talk) 11:39, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

I'm not saying I'm better than others. I don't mean that other people are stupid, racist, or anything else. I'm saying "society" (which I am part of) is crazy, and I don't blame people for that, but more institutions, the economic system, the mediatic system etc... I think society needs to be changed, though I don't see how. But I'm not being arrogant, I don't think I'm above others, smarter than others. Diacelium (talk) 14:36, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Some of the cite (weirdly and troublingly enough) Manson: "We're all our own prisons, we are each all our own wardens and we do our own time. I can't judge anyone else. What other people do is not really my affair unless they approach me with it. Prison's in your mind. Can't you see I'm free?" It seems like the quote makes sense. Machina (talk) 01:04, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Being true, earnest and logically coherent with our atheism

Please don't collapse this, it won't archive. Cømяade FυzzчCαтPøтαтø (talk/stalk) 22:07, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

We've collapsed trolling before and it archives fine. Christopher (talk) 16:42, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

American leftism has an issue

It's called let's only care about Americans and screw non-Americans' viewpoints.

Example Gamerghazi reddit fight over a video game skin.

They later chatted a bit on the issue of "only americans matter" here.

How course this isn't going to change the fact that Leftism appears to be very American centric, when I chatted to my antifa american jewish friend about this, he completely ignored me.

I'm afraid to talk about my viewpoints on Tumblr as I am fearful of being harassed for simply not having an American^tm opinion.

Honestly I stalk liberal websites only because that I feel safer on them.

ClickerClock (talk) 06:36, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

this is not an issue of the american left. it is an issue of human nature. if there is an american centric bias on such sites its because the user base is generally american and everything is going to be filtered through an american mentality. and as infuriating as it is for for non americans to be lectured by americans on things they have no direct experience of, id imagine its just as galling the other way round. it in no way justifies dismissing someones opinion if all you can say is 'well, they are not american, they wouldnt understand' and you cant or dont say say why, but hey, thats human nature. as for the overwatch thing, well. thats reddit for you. i rather glad that place has largely passed me by. if your looking for intellectual rigour you are looking in the wrong place. As for leftism, being american centric, thats just arse. on largley american sites maybe, but 'left' is different in the us the left in the uk, to the left in europe, to the left in asia, to the left in africa, to the left in south america. shit, its different in canada to the left in the us and it going to mean different things to to different people there too. AMassiveGay (talk) 12:17, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

oh, i forgot to mention, none of the above is unique to the left, american or otherwise. What passes for the right does exactly the same. AMassiveGay (talk) 12:28, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

I know it's not an 100% unique issue to the left but freak being afraid of getting harassed if your opinion is 100% American leftist^tm is scary. It's scary that such bias has built on these sites that leftism is framed as always right^tm. Stalinist apologists are everywhere on these sites. Genocide by communists is denied, excused or "oh it has nothing to do with communism". The issue is well... more me; the weirdo who's a liberal socialist; being very upset that these American leftists seem more likely in my personal experience to deny genocide. ClickerClock (talk) 14:06, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Wat Have you even read our articles? Reverend Black Percy (talk) 14:15, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

"oh it has nothing to do with communism" Frankly, that argument isn't always wrong. Most "communist" states had an economy that wasn't communist on it's marxist definition (complete worker control of workplace). But the american left is far from being communist though, I don't know why you bring this up. Diacelium (talk) 21:55, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

That argument is used by tankies to excuse themselves of caring about people who actually lived through communism. I know you aren't using it that way. But yes, "oh it has nothing to do with communism" is somewhat right and somewhat wrong. These regimes even if they weren't 100% communist were of course somewhat communism's fault. I am aware that many communist states like Vietnam, China are not really that communist even through they claim to be. They started with communist rebels, and resulted in those awful messes. ClickerClock (talk) 22:56, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Is this more of nationalism being an issue? --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 22:32, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Not really. ClickerClock (talk) 22:56, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

How? What's the difference between nationalism/jingoism and being, as you describe, "American-centric"? Or is it ego-related? --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 18:58, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Cleaning things up

I did not mean Rationalwiki, I was referring to Reddit and Tumblr and my sadness at the influence those sites have on the American far left. As the American far left is really scary and social media is making it worse. American liberals generally acknowledge genocide by communism.

My antifa jewish friend is sharing doxxes of nazis they got off tumblr. Oh my god, that's so dangerous. Who knows of the accuracy of those doxxes? Their antifa friend; I am not friends with her; dismissed "doxxing is wrong" as "liberal bullshit".

I do not like these people. I am scared of them.

Punching nazis -> doxxing nazis.

Punching nazis is much more better than doxxing them; not that i'm a fan of either.

ClickerClock (talk) 22:56, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Doxing & punching are both potential felonies. The consequences of the actions are more likely to determine which is worse in any particular circumstance. Bongolian (talk) 00:16, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Tell your antifa friend to knock it off right now. Last thing we need is the Neo-Nazi side having a valid reason to complain of being victims. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 19:00, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

But we do have valid reasons. All villains are heroes in their minds. 2d4chanfag (talk) 11:03, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Actually, mario, what we need, right now, is for people to stop defending nazis like they're not a virulent ideology that has no positive sides. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 15:25, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

@ClickerClock States like the USSR and pre-Xiaoping China had some very thick tomes of Marxist rhetoric and dialectic to justify their actions. To say they were not Marxist is just insanity. @Diacelium should know that these states only claimed to be in required transition periods to communism and silly standards like "they didn't have full worker control" are pointless. As for the modern incarnations, the justification is that countries like China have to use capitalism to develop the country in accordance with "stages of socialism." To everyone looking in, it's clearly their way of saying capitalism is the way to go without actually having to give up the ideology which justifies their absolute rule by proclaiming themselves the "vanguard of the people." The academics in the 20th century Soviet and Chinese schools had a much better understanding of Marxism that the modern reddit warriors, but the latter won't admit it because if you can't reinterpret your ideology's failure away as "not real X" than only the ideology itself is left to blame.

Which reminds me, reading those two gamerghazali threads you linked was...arduous. Seeing the spoiled American "lefists" dismiss the USSR as authoritarian and advocating destruction of the American civil infrastructure (infrastructure that many places would be happy to have) while at the same time demanding "community self defense groups" (what do they think the USSR called its crack police squads? "Fascist Enforcement Units?" LMAO) is difficult. The Taliban and similar Deobandi groups did a good job messing up my region, but they certainly knew how to deal with Marxists. Pinochet didn't do so bad either. Come to think of it, the East German Stasi and Soviet KGB had methods of dealing with spoiled anarchists as well. Almost makes one nostalgic. Lord Aeonian (talk) 20:38, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

So...About McCain...

Did anyone think that John McCain's questions in the hearing were a bit, je ne sais pas, demented? As in, McCain's gray matter is actually decaying? I kind of feel sorry for him. Kind of. RoninMacbeth (talk) 21:40, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Yep, clearly has seen better days. nobs 22:28, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

DAE gerontocracy?

(My personal opinion is that McCain is controlled opposition. Just like Rand Paul. They can't get reelected, otherwise. And it gives the appearance of a big tent.) Plutoniumboss (talk) 22:36, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

John McCain has actually been on the right side of a grand total of two issues: torture and campaign finance reform. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 22:47, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Once upon a time he sort of seemed liberal compared to the senior senator from the state (Goldwater). Bongolian (talk) 00:05, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

McCain is up to his eyeballs in the Deep State coup attempt, a rearguard action to cover their ass for all their war crimes.. nobs 00:46, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Hercolubus

As I own the book (just around 50-60 pages) about that fuss, I've expanded the Hercolubus article -as that thing comes from Latin America most stuff is in Spanish-. I've not made up all that stuff.

EDIT. Long history short, Hercolubus will come in 1999, 2005, 2012, it's already here but spiritually, or a herald of it, Unicron, a sort of "Cosmic Cross", announced that (never mind constellations have been around for many thousands of years and are made up by men). --Panzerfaust (talk) 23:40, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Add dem cites! FuzzyCatPotato!™ (talk/stalk) 22:04, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Unfortunately I've not found the book, just brochures (the Spanish wiki contains some information). EDIT. There's a PDF, but as the link was DMCAed I prefer not to put it here for fears this wiki could suffer the same) --Panzerfaust (talk) 23:31, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

New fun page

As an homage of sorts to the old National Lampoon "Foto Funnies" section (for those of you old enough to remember anyway), I've created a new page showcasing some of the funniest photo captions on our pages. Please add to it if you can remember some. There's only 4 there for a start; not so modestly, they're all mine. It's at Fun:Photo funnies Bongolian (talk) 20:59, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Well...

Theresa May's fucked. There's no way she's going to stay Tory leader with this gigantic fuck-up.'Legion^{what do you want from me} 23:06, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Classic "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." nobs 01:18, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

May was never a Brexiter. Did she commit hari-kari to kill it? nobs 06:15, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

I admit I am unfamiliar with UK politics, so what "gigantic fuck-up" are you referring to? RoninMacbeth (talk) 06:18, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

I'm American, but I've been following this, so I'll try to sum it up. May called a snap election on April 17, scheduled for June 8, in the hopes of expanding the Conservative Party's majority and shore up her position when it came to negotiating Brexit with the EU's officials, claiming that the UK needed "strong and stable" leadership. Initially, it looked as though the Tories were headed for a majority not seen since the Margaret Thatcher days, given that, while the Tories weren't necessarily popular, Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn was seen as an unelectable extremist. Then a series of gaffes, unpopular policy proposals, the Manchester and London attacks, and Corbyn softening his hard-left image over the next six weeks slowly but surely eroded the Tories' initial 20-point lead in the polls, to the point where the Tories losing their parliamentary majority was not out of the question... which wound up being precisely what happened. Right now, with all but five seats declared, the UK is looking at a 'hung parliament', meaning that no party has a majority; they will need partners from minor parties to enter a coalition. (On a side note, the Scottish National Party's support also cracked after their near-clean sweep of Scotland in the 2015 election, with the Tories, Labour, and the Liberal Democrats all picking up seats.)

Short version: the snap election sorta-kinda blew up in May's face. KevinR1990 (talk) 06:41, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Not to mention the possible implications that this general election will have on the United States midterms in 2018. --S.H. DeLong (talk) 08:05, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Theresa May, after having tried to exploit the recent terror attacks here in the UK for her own political gain, will now somewhat ironically be counting on the support of a defacto coalition with the Northern Irish DUP(Deomocratic Unionist Party), a party founded by the fire and brimstone spitting rabble rouser Ian Paisley, who have historical ties to terrorism and loyalist paramilitary terrorist groups like the Ulster Resistance. Unfortunately, being as the DUP are a bunch of bible thumping, anti-LGBT rights, anti-abortion, climate change denying, right wing, christian conservative types, she will almost certainly get their support on most issues. not a real jedi^{damn right i'm paranoid} 11:00, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

The good news is in spite of all of that, they stand directly opposed to the Tories on one key issue: they favor Soft Brexit, specifically open borders and free flow of immigrants because they absolutely do not want The Troubles to start up again. Considering how the isles are now on a hard time limit to negotiate an exit deal with the EU, and that they need now literally every Tory and DUP MP to agree on everything in a proposed exit deal, this is A Big Problem for the Conservatives.

Also, from what I'm hearing, this Parliament makeup is so unstable it'll be a miracle if they make it even a year without calling in another election. --CoyoteSans (talk) 12:02, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Looking at the 'political scandals and trip-ups bingo form' - there were several feet in several mouths (usually belonging to the same body - and any politician going on to Woman's Hour (radio program) should expect a question on child care), but there has not been a 'hands in the till' or 'sex scandal' (sleeping with someone you are not officially linked to/indulging in non-standard practices etc) lately. 86.146.100.97 (talk) 12:37, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Nice way to fuck up things after having that majority even if I seriously doubt she'd have foreseen those terrorist attacks. --Panzerfaust (talk) 00:03, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Her campaign was astonishingly egocentric and arrogant, from her making herself the sole focus of the election (rather than her party or even the manifesto, really) to her refusing to do the debates, and even after the election refusing to acknowledge what had happened. I was never a fan of Theresa May but there was a time I figured she was the best available choice for the leadership of the Conservatives during their own internal contest, but god damn did she show some true colours during this whole thing. Mistake after mistake and it all appears to be 100% her fault for refusing to engage with the party at large and relying on a tiny group of advisers. Very bizarre, this whole thing. It WAS very amusing to see Labour slowly move from "well, we'll try our hardest" to "holy shit we might actually do this" as the campaign wore on, especially as the people who had previously thrown Corbyn under the bus in the most public way imaginable have slowly come crawling out of the woodwork once it dawned on them that maybe he wasn't the walking disaster they initially assumed. X Stickman (talk) 01:08, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

I see. On a related note, UKIP has received its beating too. --Panzerfaust (talk) 11:48, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

I learned a lot from following this; "north of the border" in England does not mean people and territory loyal to the Crown, as it does in the US. nobs 07:59, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

For those unfamiliar with the technicalities - the border is that between Scotland and England' (and is the one referred to in 'Here is the night train, Crossing the border...'), while 'the Watford Gap' marks a more informal one (and does not refer to the place near London, whatever some people think).

And there is a saying - whenever a politician denies certain things (they are going to resign, there will be no election/no new taxes etc) three times then it is true. 86.191.125.149 (talk) 09:36, 13 June 2017 (UTC)