RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive175

17:07, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Did we miss this?[edit]

Listening to The Last Word - a Radio 4 obituary programme - I see that British-born designer Bill Moggridge recently died. Evidently he designed the first lap-top computer, the GRiD Compass. Генгис^{Our ignorance is God; what we know is science.} 16:12, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

A conservative history of the United States[edit]

This would actually make a good supplement to Andy's 'American History' lessons. Ace ⁱ⁹ 03:59, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Look at this: Andy has Grover Cleveland, the only Democratic President between the Civil War & World War I, author of the Civil Service Act where bureaucrats suck the government tit with automatic pay raises and are impossible to fire, in the Conservative Hall of Fame. nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 20:17, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Quite the find, Ace! --TheLateGatsby (talk) 22:10, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Please. Grover Cleveland was the only Democratic Presidents between the Civil War and Big Mistake I.

Thinking aloud, current usage of "conservative", in US politics, has drifted rather far from Edmund Burke. "Reactionary" sometimes fits the more recent styles. Would the Citizendium article, http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Restructuring_of_the_U.S._political_right form the basis of a RW article? I wrote most of it and would want to rewrite a good deal. For that matter, I could well see improving http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Restructuring_of_the_U.S._political_left

Howard C. Berkowitz (talk) 14:11, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Did the big flip between which party was traditionally Left and which was traditionally Right also not happen in this alternative history?

^pathetic

15:21, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

No. The Democratic Party has always been the party of low-life rabble rousers (Rum, Romanism, and Rebellion while GOP has been the party of personal responsibility and dignity of the individual. nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 04:17, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Personal responsibility and dignity of the individual unless you're a woman, that is. Sophie^Wilder 18:55, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Is this a thing?[edit]

Google returns 6,990,000 results for "Lego motherfucker". What the hell's that? I suddenly feel very out of touch.--Spud (talk) 16:11, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Samuel L. Jackson playing with Lego?

^pathetic

16:44, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Bear in mind that in actual quotes it's only <400 results. You've found 7 million pages where people like Lego, but also swear on occasion.

16:45, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Of course. "Spud sex machine" returned 1,300,000 results. Still, 400 results suggests that it's a bit of a thing, not a major thing but still something that means something to the kids.--Spud (talk) 16:52, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

I once made a Spud Sex Machine - you take a potato, cut a hole through the middle and... oh, you didn't mean that sort. Innocent Bystander (talk) 13:29, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Romney: You should be able to open airplane windows[edit]

"I don’t know why they don’t do that. It’s a real problem." --AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge (talk) 18:09, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Who can't wait for the debate? Osaka Sun (talk) 18:16, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Coverage from a slightly more reliable source, for verification. I'm always skeptical of these sorts of things when only the leftie sights mention it (just as I am when the fundies attack Obama). Colbert should have fun with this. DickTurpis (talk) 18:18, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

*wipes tears from eyes* Why, what do you think will happen at the debate? Being ignorant about science doesn't make someone inept at ~~political debates~~ reciting talking points.--ZooGuard (talk) 18:22, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

P.S. Writing doesn't convey tone. Was he joking?--ZooGuard (talk) 18:25, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Given the context of the rest of his lines "she was choking, it was a real problem" I have to say, no, he was serious. “When you have a fire in an aircraft, there’s no place to go, exactly, there’s no — and you can’t find any oxygen from outside the aircraft to get in the aircraft, because the windows don’t open. I don’t know why they don’t do that. It’s a real problem. So it’s very dangerous. And she was choking and rubbing her eyes. Fortunately, there was enough oxygen for the pilot and copilot to make a safe landing in Denver. But she’s safe and sound.”--

GodotBe informed. Vote. 18:30, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

It would be quite a good idea if all passengers were armed as well as they could then take down any potential hijackers. I'm sure that everyone - small children included - could be trusted to act responsibly.--Weirdstuff (talk) 18:43, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

(EC) A note of caution is indicated here: Even if Romney shows scientific ignorance at the debates, that won't necessarily go against him. Bush 2 and Reagan were both profoundly ignorant, yet they both won. Most Americans don't care about science all that much. If Romney fails, it'll be on his character and policies, assuming he lets us see his policies. Sophie^Wilder 18:45, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm so not worried about the presidential election. Rom's has alienated everyone. I'm worried about House and Senate. As I've said, President is relatively weak in areas we all care about - LAWS. add a repulican senate and watch things you care about (even if they are not perfect) like obama care, DADT repeal, bank reform (little as it was), patriot act reform (even smaller as it was) all go out the window. --

Godot44 days and counting - Be informed. Vote. 18:50, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

I know, it's just that people are getting all excited that Rmoney will crash and burn because he said a dumb thing in a moment of stress. Shit, now i'm defending him! Aaargh! Sophie^Wilder 18:58, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

The air pressure inside is high, the air pressure outside is low, you can't explain that! -- Seth Peck (talk) 19:24, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes! It's like the tides!--Weirdstuff (talk) 19:37, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘In a previous century, I spent a few hundred hours as pilot in command of various rented aircraft, piston-powered Cessnas and Pipers. I enjoyed my ninety-knot sightseeing better in the high-wing Cessnas. One of their advantages is the way the windows open, and may be left open at any sensible cruising speed. 'Tis a fine thing on a hot day to be able to stick your elbow out into the slipstream. At the altitudes I kept, I never had to deal with a hypoxic passenger, although there was this one time I had to unclip the barf bag from my knee board and pass it to the kid in the right hand seat.

A couple of times when the radio went on the fritz coming into a controlled field, I got to see the clear steady green light from the biscuit gun they keep in the tower. Counting only the times when all parties were clothed, it is one of the more welcoming sights I can now recall. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 20:07, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

I've found another source, Mitt Romney wants airplane windows to roll down in case of fire so people can breathe more easily. This one's also entertaining. Proxima Centauri (talk) 20:22, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Hypoxia is serious business. As a former resident of Utah, where the mountains are all the right height (up to about 13,000 feet) Mr. Romney may have been exposed to this idea.

Mountain sickness will kick your ass, even at altitudes well below the flight levels of passenger jets. I had the opportunity to witness this on Pike's Peak (a tad above 14,000 ft, or 4300 m) in a double-blind drug trial that lasted two weeks. We were sent up in two cohorts, and were advised to take it easy the first day. The first bunch felt fine, and spent the afternoon tossing a frisbee around, against medical advice. When we came up the next day, they were lying in their bunks doing nothing, not even moaning. They did eventually get back on their feet again. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 20:44, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

One recent treatment for mountain sickness, off-label but medically recognized, is sildenafil -- brand name Viagra. Howard C. Berkowitz (talk) 16:40, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

This story is lighting up the liberal feeds on Facebook, with special attention to the "It’s a real problem" comment...yes, a real problem, much like Armageddon, voter fraud, Iran's military might, taxes too high for millionaires and Obama's birth certificate. -- Seth Peck (talk) 22:55, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Campaigns are like big commercials, and campaign time is when everyone tries to target demographics and put on presentation. But gaffes like this are great perspectives into the fact that candidates are real people, and their actual attitudes, worldviews, and general world knowledge vary just like every other normal person in the world. Too often I hear about Mitt the Heartless Corporate Swine or Mitt the FlipFlopper... but now we hear about Mitt Doesn't Know How Airplanes Work, which to me is just as valuable a perspective into what sort of person he is than the sight of his 'best' foot forward. ±

KnightOfTL;DR^{yeah, well you fight like a cow!} 23:12, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

gaffes like this are great perspectives [on] their actual attitudes, worldviews, and general world knowledge... Amen to that. Recall candidate Obama's reaction to Russia during the Abkhazia crisis in 2008, "United States should call for a meeting of the United Nations Security Council to condemn Russia's decision", knowing full well Russia has a veto on the Security Council and would veto a Resolution to condemn itself. Now we see the same ignorance in the Syrian crisis. nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 12:55, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

If it's Gospel time this morning, have a look at Matthew 7:3~5. Says something about tu quoque, false equivalence, and not being a dick.

Regarding taking Russia to the coop, are you too thick to see that all the vetos in the world do not stifle the air time, the bad press it would have given them? They could pound their shoes on the desk all they like, shouting "Не постовчй хуй в чай!" and that bell would still be ringing, not to be unrung. Also something something price of fish. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 14:27, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Nah, the 2008 response on Abkhazia probably has something to do with saying whatever people want to hear, in addition to a lack of understanding how the world works. Let's assume momentarily Obama knew his suggestion was as useful as a condom with a hole it, it says more about pandering to isolationist tendencies -- and makes him as inspirational a visionary as Ron Paul. nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 14:55, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Snopes is covering this now, and they have a link to a video of him saying it. I have to admit, it sounds like he's joking. DickTurpis (talk) 13:26, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

One of the skills Dunning and Kruger investigated was humor. Unfunny and unaware, now who could that be? Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 14:57, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Stupid anti tax idiots[edit]

I am legally obligated to add anyone's views on our Ballot Question, if it's a Tax question. I have to add the line "Taxpayers are weary of the continued request by governments to increase their taxes and debt. At this time of economic chaos, tax payers believe governments must learn to live within their “means” just as taxpayer families must. Vote NO on request to increase debt and taxes." which has apparently been spammed across the state to EVERY SINGLE TAX QUESTION. sighs... idiots. Don't bother actually reading each tax question and seeing if it might be useful tax or not, just generically hate all taxes cause you know, who needs roads, clean water, or better schools.--Godot44 days and counting - Be informed. Vote. 18:37, 24 September 2012 (UTC) Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

Worried about a tax increase? Ask for a pay rise to compensate.

19:02, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Amen. oh wait, your repblican LORDS don't want to give up their profits. I'm just sorta frustrated you can write such a blanket statement, and spam it to all taxing questions in the state. sighs... 45 more days! or something.

Godot44 days and counting - Be informed. Vote. 20:04, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Yah know, this is one of the biggest misconceptions in American politics, the use of the term, "taxpayer". While individuals pay the transfer payments like Social Security and Medicare, these are not the operating costs of the US government. The bulk of day to day operating costs are borne by corporations, which are taxpayers. nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 04:27, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't know what country you live in, but since 1970 the amount of taxes born by corporations has continued to decline, to the point where corporations are well below 10% of the taxes paid by the US. In fact in 2009, corporations made up 6% of the US govt revenue. and roughly 10% of most state revenue. [1]--

Godot44 days and counting - Be informed. Vote. 04:48, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[2] so are you lying? or just an idiot?--

Godot44 days and counting - Be informed. Vote. 04:49, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

No, you're missing the point. Individual income taxes and payroll taxes, using your chart amount to 82% of revenues. This pays for income transfer programs, social programs like health & education, and some defense. The general operations of government, like civil service, Congress, White House, Supreme Court, State Department, etc., and interest on the debt, are paid by the corporate tax. This is rightly so, and fitting. The idiot voters demand all these income transfer programs and social spending (like Fannie Mae subsidized interest rates for middle class earners) and deficits to pay for them, so let individuals pay for that crap. The "legitimate" operations of government, the day to day costs of staffing and making sure these institutions will be there with their doors open, is borne by the corporate tax, the same taxpayers who are there everyday providing society with the necessities and luxuries of life, and employ everybody (making it possible for individual earners to pay for all the extra crap they demand of government). nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 05:33, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Oh WfG, what a wag you are with your rhetorical questions.

Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member}

07:31, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

What's a wag? I found this - "A selection of overpublicised, vacuous anorexics found lurking at football matches, easily distinguised by their orange skin tone and high body plastic index, ostensibly present for the purpose of pleasuring the England football team, but in reality with the intention of being photographed obtaining fashion advice from chief WAG Mrs. Beckham in the hope that this will lead to a future appearance on "celebrity love island"." (urban dictoionary). Hum... anorexic. hum...

Godot44 days and counting - Be informed. Vote. 13:20, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Different wag. You're referring to WAG, standing for Wife Or Girlfriend (of footballer originally). Wag means joker in this context. Ajkgordon (talk) 14:25, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Ooh, careful. Wives And Girlfriends as they were originally referred to as a group.

Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member}

14:39, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Oops, yes, quite right. And. Bollocks. Where's my pointy hood? Ajkgordon (talk) 15:15, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Didn't we already talk about this? -- Seth Peck (talk) 15:50, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

When trying to understand an unfamiliar word it's usually best to try wiktionary before resorting to Urban dictionary. Or you could, you know, buy one of those old-fashioned books from before everything was crowd-sourced and volunteer edited. Also, case matters in English, a WAG and a wag are as different as a PIN and a pin, or as ACID and acid. 82.69.171.94 (talk) 16:16, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Dear BON, it was a fricking joke. I really didn't think Ghingis was calling me a overpublised. sighs.... humor. does. not. belong. on. the. intertubes.

Godot44 days and counting - Be informed. Vote. 16:46, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

I notice you didn't deny being orange and anorexic though. Ajkgordon (talk) 09:41, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

From what WfG has posted previously, I don't think anorexia is one of her characteristics.

Генгис^{Our ignorance is God; what we know is science.}

10:08, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

So you're calling her orange? How rude. Ajkgordon (talk) 10:34, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

I know nothing of her Ulster heritage and so couldn't possibly comment.

Генгис^mutating

11:00, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

I heard she wears a bowler hat. Ajkgordon (talk) 11:48, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Why Evolution Is True[edit]

Well, I LOLled at Boudry's hoax. Sophisticated Theology, my arse. Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member} 13:05, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Ah, that reminds me to take sophisticated theology live - David Gerard (talk) 14:37, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

So... Dawkinism IS true after all, right? --2.39.39.47 (talk) 20:36, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Look what I found...[edit]

Not quite sure what to say...except...I would want B's or better.--Dumpling (talk) 17:54, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't think "C"s refer to grades. -- Seth Peck (talk) 18:13, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

....LeGasp. O___O Well that takes it to a whole new level of LAME....--Dumpling (talk) 18:45, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Ah! That's what the "C" was about!--Weirdstuff (talk) 18:52, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Email the guy and offer to sell him a realdoll. I think that fits his requirements nicely. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 20:51, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

I think it just might be photoshopped. Are people actually like this in real life?Percival (talk) 21:02, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

This is Louisiana, nothing more need be said. Тy^{Bother me} 22:36, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

'6 figure starting salary'... god, he's either delusional and will be unpleasently surprised once he hits the job market, or I just studied at the wrong faculty for the last 7 years...Th. Bernhard _{Das Leben ist ein Prozeß, den man verliert, was man auch tut und wer man auch ist.} 21:49, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

In Baton Rouge? -- Seth Peck (talk) 22:34, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes. I took this photo from my phone,. Anyways, this personal ad came from the LSU campus newspaper. :/--Dumpling (talk) 05:49, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

It could be a joke or an experiment, people have been known to do that with personals. If it was genuine and he had an inkling of intelligence, he'd know that the type of woman he's seeking isn't the type of woman who needs to resort to scouring the personals in some paper. ^{ONE / TALK} 08:51, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Easy enough to test. Dumpling could get a throw-away email address and respond to it.--Weirdstuff (talk) 12:21, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

You could always email in and say how well you fit all the requirements... except I used to be a man.

13:03, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Steve Wozniack[edit]

Sitting in a convention centre with 2600 other people, about to listen to Steve Wozniack speak about the future of tech. Ace ⁱ⁹ 22:32, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Pardon my cynicism, but I really don't see the point in talks like that. The "future of tech" will be crafted by people and ideas no one has heard of yet. Unless he's talking about the near-future (like, a decade from now), in which case he can just point to the R&D departments of Intel, IBM, ARM, and Apple and be done with it.

Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 00:49, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Even 10 years is optimistic... in 2007 (a mere five years ago) everyone was on Myspace, no-one had even heard of Facebook and Twitter barely existed. A Blackberry was the coolest phone you could own, tablets were for headaches and many TV shows were still being made in 4:3 standard def. And certainly no-one alerted Rupert that Myspace was going to die so quickly - it could have saved him $500 mill. VOX^HUMANA 01:24, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

it was shit anyway. Ace ⁱ⁹ 01:54, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Ace need's to listen to this guy, he's more of a roll model for the future with Ace's business acumen. nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 06:01, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Tesla and Oatmeal[edit]

Didn't see this mentioned before, so here it is. A worthy cause IMO. VOX^HUMANA 00:00, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Unilaterally pull out of West bank[edit]

Israeli Defense Minister suggested it as the proper thing to do (minus some militarily important areas, the jordan border and the biggest areas of settlement) should the latest set of talks fail. Vague Yay!--Mikal ^{Harass Follow} 04:46, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

He is rather old...[edit]

When Cheney finally dies are we going to need to burn to death quails or lawyers to release his dark soul back into the Abyss of Terror from whence it came? Are there any precautions in place to make sure he stays dead? I am not sure a stake would suffice. Hollow (talk) 05:44, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Tim Kreider thought it did. --CoyoteSans (talk) 05:56, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Cheney is a special brand of horror. Hollow (talk) 06:00, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

It's a simple matter of taking the heart they implanted in him back out. And then burning it.

Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 06:38, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

If I were a woman I'd wanna have Dick Cheney's baby. nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 12:24, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm so pleased we keep you in a special box away from women.

13:29, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Now we know what Ace did last night[edit]

Must have been one hell of an evening. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 15:17, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Today I learned the word "jacksie". -- Seth Peck (talk) 16:12, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

That really beats out the old gerbiling urban myth now21:35, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

successfully remove the animal, whose fate is unknown. That's precious, unembellished straightforward reporting. nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 18:46, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Don't forget the famous priest/potato incident. nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 22:07, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

not me I'm afraid. I spent last night at black tie function with 2500 business professionals. And if it involved me somehow the headline would read new Zealand man, Ace McWicked, arrested after attacking man with a Moray Eel". Ace ⁱ⁹ 23:05, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Black tie event? My dear Sir, don't you realize such bourgeois attitudes are enemies of the revolution? nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 02:13, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

what the fuck do I care? I am a capitalist, a successful one at that. Fuck the poor. Ace ⁱ⁹ 02:41, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

What's wrong with the wiki today?[edit]

Seems like it's fucked. It's been dog slow or down altogether all day, and all the extra links have disappeared from the side bar. What gives? --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 00:52, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Somewhat's borked, possibly serverwards. ADK mentioned that javascript and css are not living up to expectation either. Should I toast goat products on my kitchen altar? Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 01:12, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Wiki Fairies have fixed it.

10:30, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

DoS OR DDoS? Proxima Centauri (talk) 10:36, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

I doubt you get that effect from a DDoS. Those usually just slow the site to a crawl, they don't actively damage the MW extensions like the inclusion of the vector.css file.

10:49, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Maybe a coincidence, but huge swathes of the interwebs were hit with go-slows of varying lengths yesterday. It made searches through Google Images frustrating, to say the least.--

^{Jabba de Chops} 11:30, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Is the Front Page broken?[edit]

Is the front page supposed to look like this, or is my browser (Chrome) messed up? JubalHarshaw (talk) 13:10, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm seeing something like that too on Chrome. It looks fine on IE and Firefox though. Sam ^Tally-ho! 17:36, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

I have the same thing too (on Chrome). Oddly, I also get something very similar on cracked every now and then; images don't work properly and articles don't load (that doesn't sound very similar, but it does LOOK similar when it happens). Emptying my cache usually fixes it but that gets rid of all my passwords and junk too and eff that. Eff it good. X Stickman (talk) 19:26, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Just hit control-shift-r to refresh the page, circumventing the cache. It pretty much fixes all problems like these. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 20:17, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

When it comes to being shit, Chrome is the new IE6.

22:52, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Is anyone also seeing the WIGO logos missing?66.183.41.215 (talk) 00:30, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Jeeves's fix works great, it may take more then one refresh, but keep hitting control-shift-r (or in my case ⌘-shift-r), and it will be resolved. Smedley (talk) 10:16, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Worst movie death scene ever[edit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR6Cw_3q1Pg - David Gerard (talk) 12:10, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

If only Superman had been there in time! Sophie^Wilder 12:35, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Are you absolutely sure that isn't a comedy?

Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 15:01, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Is that Rowan Atkinson?

22:20, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

I submit to you this video for your perusal[edit]

I'm going to call this an "animated inforgraphic" about the history of asteroid detection.. It's fascinating and a little hypnotic. ^{ONE / TALK} 10:54, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Public Advocate...using a gay couple's pictures without their permission[edit]

WIGO:W or WIGO:Clog? The couple in question has filed a lawsuit...I hope they completely clean Delgaudio out.-- Seth Peck (talk) 21:36, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

I can't wait to receive a hysterical email about this--"Shut up, Brx." 00:00, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Do you suppose winning a lawsuit will hurt the candidate's re-election chances, on whose behalf the mailer was sent out, and who beat the incumbent in doubledigits supposedly over this issue? nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 04:27, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

I haven't a clue. Most people here only follow Public Advocate because of Eugene Delgaudio's hyperbolic missives alternating between warning "true Americans" that we're standing on the edge of the precipice of gays ruling the world with a gilt iron fist and masturbatory rallying cries about how the homosexual lobby is reeling after some imaginary victory by the Christian right. Add to that his skewed poll questions (which mostly sample his expected base) and his inability to call a bill by its actual name, and you have yourself a lifetime's supply of very entertaining emails. The only downside is that now Michelle Bachmann's campaign keeps sending emails asking for donations. Those emails aren't nearly as funny.--"Shut up, Brx." 05:02, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

I know what you mean; I'm gettin spammed by the Obama campaign 3-4 times a day. They got a chair reserved for me right next to Barack & Michelle at the Inauguration Ball, or some such. nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 05:12, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

lol--"Shut up, Brx." 05:14, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

New books[edit]

I have just got in and found a parcel from Amazon with some new books to read. One of them is Spell It Out: The Singular Story of English Spelling by David Crystal, and I was amused to find the following blurb on the back cover: An entertaining archealogical language dig. (DAILY MAIL). Генгис^pillaging 16:19, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Isn't there a rule about that, but for grammar nazis? "anyone complaining about spelling will inevitably make an error themselves in that post" or some such? Does your book explain why we say lie, but liAr and not liEr. hate english. i really do.--

Godotrien ne marcherait 16:53, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Skitt's Law -- Seth Peck (talk) 17:03, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

I love English. English ROCKS! Ajkgordon (talk) 17:28, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

One dog, two dogs. One sheep, two sheep. One goose, two geese. Meat from a pig is "pork", meat from a cow is "beef", meat from a chicken is "chicken". Meat from a sheep is "mutton" whereas meat from a lamb is "lamb". English is dumb. X Stickman (talk) 19:10, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

It's cultural. It's not Esperanto. And it rocks. Ajkgordon (talk) 23:13, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Yup. Not that it would even matter if we didn't like it. It's beyond anyone's control now. The ball was rolling at least by the nineteenth century, anybody who didn't want English as a de facto lingua franca for the world needed to start fighting generations ago. 82.69.171.94 (talk) 09:21, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Global index of religion and atheism[edit]

From Gallup. Global index of religion and atheism Some interesting reading. Sorry if it's been posted before.--Weirdstuff (talk) 19:35, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Whut, no UK?

Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?}

21:23, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

No, UK isn't a religion. Except in UK maybe. --2.39.39.47 (talk) 21:56, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Eejit. Read the document.

Генгис^marauding

07:17, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

You seem confused. Eejit is another country altogether (still not a religion though). As for the document, I'm waiting for the movie to come out. --2.39.39.47 (talk) 09:21, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Whoever made the graphic on page 13 needs shot.

14:03, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

I see that it's not the official Gallup. "Disclaimer: Gallup International Association or its members are not related to Gallup Inc., headquartered in Washington D.C which is no longer a member of Gallup International Association. Gallup International Association does not accept responsibility for opinion polling other than its own. We require that our surveys be credited fully as Gallup International (not Gallup or Gallup Poll)."

Генгис^{Our ignorance is God; what we know is science.}

14:10, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

What exactly is a "convinced atheist", anyway? I figure I'm about as much an atheist as anyone, but even I would take a second thought when asked if I was 'convinced'. What a terrible choice of words, especially given these people are supposed to be in the business of choosing the right words in order to make their polling as accurate as possible. Ha. Q0 (talk) 18:53, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

...supposed to be in the business of choosing the right words in order to make their polling as accurate as possible. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear... you have a lot to learn about polling!

07:53, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

The FARSide[edit]

Derailed to Forum:FARSide Sophie^Wilder 20:35, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

In what ways has the theory of evolution changed since Darwin?[edit]

I've briefly read about how the discovery of genes lent more explanatory power to the theory, and in reading the article on Darwinism, I noticed this passage: "the study of evolution has expanded well beyond Darwin's original works and the ideas he outlined, namely that evolution can now be described in terms of DNA" and I'm curious if anyone more versed in biology than I knows more examples of this. άλφα^Ταλκ 19:31, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Try reading this.

Генгис^{Our ignorance is God; what we know is science.}

19:53, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Why Evolution Is True is great so far (I'm reading it right now), as is The Greatest Show On Earth. They were published around the same time and may usefully be regarded as a pair - David Gerard (talk) 20:12, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Although Darwin was a contemporary of Mendel he was unaware of his work in inheritance and he was certainly unaware of the existence of DNA. The fact that these discoveries were easily integrated into Darwin's work shows how well he had thought though his original ideas.--Weirdstuff (talk) 20:19, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

(EC) OK, I'm not a biologist but I'm about a quarter through that book. Basically our genetic code still contains genes that we share with other animals. So for example we have similar genes for smell as dogs but evolution switched ours off so that we could devote our brain power to other things. We also know that the hippo is one of the closest relatives to the cetaceans from genetic sequencing showing that whales evolved from land animals which returned to the ocean. Occasionally these redundant genes can get turned on by accident and foetuses can develop a tail. Human foetuses also go through the steps of evolution including developing a fur coat which is usually shed before birth but is in accordance with our evolution from hairier apes. The fact that we have redundant genes in our DNA shows that our ancestors must have had them and we are just left with the inactive detritus. If intelligent design or creationism was true then why would we have that stuff, it's not very efficient or intelligently designed but makes perfect sense from the view of evolution.

Генгис^mutating

20:21, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the information. I knew a little of the modern study of DNA and the support it lends to evolution, but the more information the better. άλφα^Ταλκ 17:55, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

I've made my way through the first few chapters of Origin and so far you'd be extremely surprised at how much he pre-empted genetics. In places it's like he's describing genetics perfectly, but simply doesn't have the language to express it in terms we recognise. When Dawkins says things about it being ahead of its time, visionary and groundbreaking, he really isn't joking or exaggerating.

07:50, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Amputees[edit]

As a reasonably fit, able-bodied individual I think it must be shit to lose a limb. But, how cool is this? Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 12:29, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

I bet they cost an arm and a leg. --2.39.39.47 (talk) 15:52, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Reminds me of Fullmetal Alchemist. Still, no arguments here. It takes bold people like this to redefine normal, which is what we as people sorely need from time to time.±

KnightOfTL;DR^{free guybrush threepwood! no new taxes! down with porcelain!} 16:16, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Second one reminds me of Viktoria Modesta who, being an alt-model, has a prosthetic leg especially designed to take a 6" stiletto.

07:43, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Here's hoping she is able to save Farida, which I wasn't able to do even using every weapon at my disposal. WF Lizardbrain (talk) 11:48, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Blasphemy Day[edit]

"Picard is better than Kirk" ...how is that blasphemous? Osaka Sun (talk) 15:51, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Janeway. Ŵêâŝêîôîď

^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 18:52, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Uh, I know that... it's from Astro Quest, right? --2.39.39.47 (talk) 19:15, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

JarJar Binks was a great character. -- Seth Peck (talk) 20:27, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Ryder Cup[edit]

Wow, what a finish! Генгис^{Our ignorance is God; what we know is science.} 22:31, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Isn't this the biggest comeback in Cup history? --Revolverman (talk) 00:53, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Ryder? I hardly know 'er! JubalHarshaw (talk) 01:31, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Dr. Fuhrman's immunity solution[edit]

This asshat is on both my local PBS stations (WGBH, WENH). Contacted both to complain and point out that if I was a subscriber, this guy would make me drop it.

Can someone please rip The Fuhrman Solution seven new orifices here? ħuman 04:24, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Public Advocate...using a gay couple's pictures without their permission[edit]

WIGO:W or WIGO:Clog? The couple in question has filed a lawsuit...I hope they completely clean Delgaudio out.-- Seth Peck (talk) 21:36, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

I can't wait to receive a hysterical email about this--"Shut up, Brx." 00:00, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Do you suppose winning a lawsuit will hurt the candidate's re-election chances, on whose behalf the mailer was sent out, and who beat the incumbent in doubledigits supposedly over this issue? nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 04:27, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

I haven't a clue. Most people here only follow Public Advocate because of Eugene Delgaudio's hyperbolic missives alternating between warning "true Americans" that we're standing on the edge of the precipice of gays ruling the world with a gilt iron fist and masturbatory rallying cries about how the homosexual lobby is reeling after some imaginary victory by the Christian right. Add to that his skewed poll questions (which mostly sample his expected base) and his inability to call a bill by its actual name, and you have yourself a lifetime's supply of very entertaining emails. The only downside is that now Michelle Bachmann's campaign keeps sending emails asking for donations. Those emails aren't nearly as funny.--"Shut up, Brx." 05:02, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

I know what you mean; I'm gettin spammed by the Obama campaign 3-4 times a day. They got a chair reserved for me right next to Barack & Michelle at the Inauguration Ball, or some such. nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 05:12, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

lol--"Shut up, Brx." 05:14, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

New books[edit]

I have just got in and found a parcel from Amazon with some new books to read. One of them is Spell It Out: The Singular Story of English Spelling by David Crystal, and I was amused to find the following blurb on the back cover: An entertaining archealogical language dig. (DAILY MAIL). Генгис^{You have the right to be offended; and I have the right to offend you.} 16:19, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Isn't there a rule about that, but for grammar nazis? "anyone complaining about spelling will inevitably make an error themselves in that post" or some such? Does your book explain why we say lie, but liAr and not liEr. hate english. i really do.--

Godotrien ne marcherait 16:53, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Skitt's Law -- Seth Peck (talk) 17:03, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

I love English. English ROCKS! Ajkgordon (talk) 17:28, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

One dog, two dogs. One sheep, two sheep. One goose, two geese. Meat from a pig is "pork", meat from a cow is "beef", meat from a chicken is "chicken". Meat from a sheep is "mutton" whereas meat from a lamb is "lamb". English is dumb. X Stickman (talk) 19:10, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

It's cultural. It's not Esperanto. And it rocks. Ajkgordon (talk) 23:13, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Yup. Not that it would even matter if we didn't like it. It's beyond anyone's control now. The ball was rolling at least by the nineteenth century, anybody who didn't want English as a de facto lingua franca for the world needed to start fighting generations ago. 82.69.171.94 (talk) 09:21, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Global index of religion and atheism[edit]

From Gallup. Global index of religion and atheism Some interesting reading. Sorry if it's been posted before.--Weirdstuff (talk) 19:35, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Whut, no UK?

Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member}

21:23, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

No, UK isn't a religion. Except in UK maybe. --2.39.39.47 (talk) 21:56, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Eejit. Read the document.

Генгис^{Our ignorance is God; what we know is science.}

07:17, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

You seem confused. Eejit is another country altogether (still not a religion though). As for the document, I'm waiting for the movie to come out. --2.39.39.47 (talk) 09:21, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Whoever made the graphic on page 13 needs shot.

14:03, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

I see that it's not the official Gallup. "Disclaimer: Gallup International Association or its members are not related to Gallup Inc., headquartered in Washington D.C which is no longer a member of Gallup International Association. Gallup International Association does not accept responsibility for opinion polling other than its own. We require that our surveys be credited fully as Gallup International (not Gallup or Gallup Poll)."

Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?}

14:10, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

What exactly is a "convinced atheist", anyway? I figure I'm about as much an atheist as anyone, but even I would take a second thought when asked if I was 'convinced'. What a terrible choice of words, especially given these people are supposed to be in the business of choosing the right words in order to make their polling as accurate as possible. Ha. Q0 (talk) 18:53, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

...supposed to be in the business of choosing the right words in order to make their polling as accurate as possible. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear... you have a lot to learn about polling!

07:53, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

The FARSide[edit]

Derailed to Forum:FARSide Sophie^Wilder 20:35, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

In what ways has the theory of evolution changed since Darwin?[edit]

I've briefly read about how the discovery of genes lent more explanatory power to the theory, and in reading the article on Darwinism, I noticed this passage: "the study of evolution has expanded well beyond Darwin's original works and the ideas he outlined, namely that evolution can now be described in terms of DNA" and I'm curious if anyone more versed in biology than I knows more examples of this. άλφα^Ταλκ 19:31, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Try reading this.

Генгис^{You have the right to be offended; and I have the right to offend you.}

19:53, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Why Evolution Is True is great so far (I'm reading it right now), as is The Greatest Show On Earth. They were published around the same time and may usefully be regarded as a pair - David Gerard (talk) 20:12, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Although Darwin was a contemporary of Mendel he was unaware of his work in inheritance and he was certainly unaware of the existence of DNA. The fact that these discoveries were easily integrated into Darwin's work shows how well he had thought though his original ideas.--Weirdstuff (talk) 20:19, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

(EC) OK, I'm not a biologist but I'm about a quarter through that book. Basically our genetic code still contains genes that we share with other animals. So for example we have similar genes for smell as dogs but evolution switched ours off so that we could devote our brain power to other things. We also know that the hippo is one of the closest relatives to the cetaceans from genetic sequencing showing that whales evolved from land animals which returned to the ocean. Occasionally these redundant genes can get turned on by accident and foetuses can develop a tail. Human foetuses also go through the steps of evolution including developing a fur coat which is usually shed before birth but is in accordance with our evolution from hairier apes. The fact that we have redundant genes in our DNA shows that our ancestors must have had them and we are just left with the inactive detritus. If intelligent design or creationism was true then why would we have that stuff, it's not very efficient or intelligently designed but makes perfect sense from the view of evolution.

Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member}

20:21, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the information. I knew a little of the modern study of DNA and the support it lends to evolution, but the more information the better. άλφα^Ταλκ 17:55, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

I've made my way through the first few chapters of Origin and so far you'd be extremely surprised at how much he pre-empted genetics. In places it's like he's describing genetics perfectly, but simply doesn't have the language to express it in terms we recognise. When Dawkins says things about it being ahead of its time, visionary and groundbreaking, he really isn't joking or exaggerating.

07:50, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Amputees[edit]

As a reasonably fit, able-bodied individual I think it must be shit to lose a limb. But, how cool is this? Генгис^{You have the right to be offended; and I have the right to offend you.} 12:29, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

I bet they cost an arm and a leg. --2.39.39.47 (talk) 15:52, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Reminds me of Fullmetal Alchemist. Still, no arguments here. It takes bold people like this to redefine normal, which is what we as people sorely need from time to time.±

KnightOfTL;DR^{free guybrush threepwood! no new taxes! down with porcelain!} 16:16, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Second one reminds me of Viktoria Modesta who, being an alt-model, has a prosthetic leg especially designed to take a 6" stiletto.

07:43, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Here's hoping she is able to save Farida, which I wasn't able to do even using every weapon at my disposal. WF Lizardbrain (talk) 11:48, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Blasphemy Day[edit]

"Picard is better than Kirk" ...how is that blasphemous? Osaka Sun (talk) 15:51, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Janeway. Weaseloid

^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 18:52, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Uh, I know that... it's from Astro Quest, right? --2.39.39.47 (talk) 19:15, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

JarJar Binks was a great character. -- Seth Peck (talk) 20:27, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Ryder Cup[edit]

Wow, what a finish! Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member} 22:31, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Isn't this the biggest comeback in Cup history? --Revolverman (talk) 00:53, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Ryder? I hardly know 'er! JubalHarshaw (talk) 01:31, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Dr. Fuhrman's immunity solution[edit]

This asshat is on both my local PBS stations (WGBH, WENH). Contacted both to complain and point out that if I was a subscriber, this guy would make me drop it.

Can someone please rip The Fuhrman Solution seven new orifices here? ħuman 04:24, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Banned Books Week[edit]

Once again, it's Banned books week, so to celebrate, here's a list of books that have been banned or challenged. --TheLateGatsby (talk) 12:16, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Mein Kampf is conveniently missing. --K. (talk) 12:30, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

I agree, more people should read Mein Kampf ("'It can't happen here.' 'The hell it can't!'") But it's a list of novels, therefore fiction, and Mein Kampf was, sadly, non-fiction.. --TheLateGatsby (talk) 12:35, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, that's what I get for not reading the headline. Also, wow, somebody actually tried to ban 1984 (for loose morals) and Brave New World... What's next? Burning Fahrenheit 451? --K. (talk) 12:47, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Older editions have been censored, removing "hell" and "damn". Human stupidity is bottomless, I'm sure someone has burned Fahrenheit 451. --TheLateGatsby (talk) 12:51, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Not on the list, but I once tried to read "The 120 Days of Sodom" by De Sade. It's unreadable - at least in my opinion. Couldn't get my stomach past the first few chapters.--Weirdstuff (talk) 13:18, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Huckleberry Finn seems to be conspicuously absent.--Spud (talk) 13:34, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

That is peculiar, there are other books on the list banned and challenged for using racial slurs, why not the best example? --TheLateGatsby (talk) 11:22, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

I've gathered that Mein Kampf is so boring that no one should be recommended it. There are better ways to learn about one of the darkest stains of human history. Vulpius (talk) 13:43, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

I actually tried reading it. It's awful, unreadable and tedious as fuck. Pretty much no neo-Nazi has ever read it; I think more anti-Nazis would have. The current English edition is academic and pretty good for what it does, i.e. a long contextualising intro and footnotes for every time Hitler lies or exaggerates. To learn about it, the abridged version of Shirer's Rise And Fall of the Third Reich is pretty good. (The unabridged version is very long and gets dull itself.) - David Gerard (talk) 18:22, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Do people still read that brick? It's really dated, and Shirer was a journalist, not a historian--he didn't have nearly the kind of archival access that more recent scholars do. Kershaw and Evans are probably a way better bet for the interested amateur. JubalHarshaw (talk) 18:30, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

I figure Mein Kampf isn't banned because it is considerably more difficult to justify banning non-fiction.--BMcP - Just an astronomy guy 18:53, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

It's banned in Austria. --K. (talk) 22:38, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Isn't the thing with Mein Kampf that the German government owns the rights to it till 2035, and is never going to let it be published? --Revolverman (talk) 21:31, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Kind of, but not really, no. See here. JubalHarshaw (talk) 22:17, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Ahh, only 2015. --Revolverman (talk) 22:40, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

And it's the state of Bavaria, not Germany. JubalHarshaw (talk) 23:34, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

I see your tedium of Mein Kampf, and raise you that life-sapping doorstop that is Gulag Archipelago. --Llegar a las estrellas ^¿Dígame? 14:30, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Freedom: long known to lack retinal cones essential in processing perception of color[edit]

Not here frequently enough to know whether this has been posted, but that's a small prize to pay in order to share this gem. The terrific overarching irony, the quality of the writing, the images used considering it was linked on a certain "family-friendly wiki"--it is a thing of beauty. WF Lizardbrain (talk) 11:46, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

I started watching that, wondering why you posted such cheesy vid with a godawful song, then it started talking about MLK being republican, and a democrat bveing in the kkk and i rolled my eyes. AMassiveGay (talk) 17:35, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

People apparently forget (or didn't know) about the "great flip" that occurred in U.S. political history between the two big parties. -- Seth Peck (talk) 20:29, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Ah, color-blind racism. or, as I prefer to call it, "racism." JubalHarshaw (talk) 21:05, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

So, the video rips on CNN, and NBC, and Keith Olbermann in particular. I notice no mention of Fox "News". Considering that it ripped on CNN and NBC in particular, and fails to even mention Fox "News" makes this video instantly full of fail. We can also draw the conclusion that the creator is an idiot modern-day Republican who thinks that Fox "News" is actual news and not bad theatre. The juxtaposition with MLK's great speech too I find quite offensive and in bad taste. If MLK were still around (and wasn't a calm pacifist), he'd slap you silly. LiberalOfAnUnknownVariant (talk) 02:54, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Another weird web story[edit]

Explosion At Japanese Chemical Plant Results In Run On Diapers In North Texas --AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge (talk) 19:19, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

The Butterfly Effect is apparently like religion, or traffic, or stock prices--it only occurs when people believe in it. -- Seth Peck (talk) 19:50, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Traffic only occurs because we believe in it? JubalHarshaw (talk) 21:50, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Hey, when I close my eyes on the road, all the other cars just vanish! --Revolverman (talk) 22:05, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

And if you plug your ears while you're at it, you won't hear the screaming!

10:28, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Also, traffic waves if you really wanted to know.

10:30, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

utter nonsense...[edit]

First of all, what kind of twat c14 dates a dinosaur bone? Second, where do you think the collogen came from? --P3A58NT86 21:22, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Oh, look, still older than what the YEC's say the age of the universe is. Checkmate, .... um.... -- Seth Peck (talk) 21:29, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

That guy is a grade-A liar. You will never get a date higher that ≈50,000 years because of the half-life of C¹⁴ is only 5,730 ± 40 years; anything older and all of the C¹⁴ would have decayed to Nitrogen. Second you won't find carbon 14 in the bones themselves because fossilized bones of that age have all been replaced by minerals and any carbon-14 on them are relatively recent impurities on the fossil itself.--BMcP - Just an astronomy guy 22:30, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

This kind of bologna has been around for a while. Yes, the half-life of ¹⁴C is so short that responsible labs will not report an age beyond fifty or sixty thousand years. That's why it is useful for archaeology, not paleontology: old campsites and kitchen middens, but not dinosaur bones. Yes, tasty birds are dinosaurs too, but leave that aside for a moment... The kind of "soft tissues" found in cases like this tend to be explained as biofilm casts, or recent slime that filled in the spaces where the dinosaurs' soft tissues made gaps and galleries in the bone. I can't be asked to chase references; anyone who cares is more than welcome to do their own googling. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 01:37, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

So I did a quick Google on Thomas Seiler and came up with this; so he's obviously not an impartial scientist Maybe we need to document more of these wackaloons. Of course not all "fossils” are fossilized, I.e. have been remineralised, I have my own piece of Mosasur jaw which is apparently still the original bone, but it's not impossible that an old bone does contain C14, just improbable.

Генгис^pillaging

08:30, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Also relevant.

10:43, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

I find it difficult to work out if this kind of thing is accidental stupidity, intentional stupidity, pure mendacity... or just a Poe. In general I go for somewhere between 2 and 3, but it's so difficult to tell sometimes. rpeh •T•C•E• 10:57, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

First, a failure to recognize distinguish tissue from some fossilized-analogous remnant. Second, a complete lack of understanding of all science - in this case specifically that radioactive decay under the crust from other elements can release particles which can transmute C-12 to C-14, and thus we should expect really really old things we dig out of the ground to contain C-14 levels equivalent to that of ~50,000 year old samples. Whether this particular one is a Poe? I don't know. LiberalOfAnUnknownVariant (talk) 12:19, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Has there been any debunking of Schweitzer's claim that the proteins found (mmm, tastes like chicken) are inconsistent with bacterial origin? Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 13:18, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Err, sorry, I think that's the right answer. My post was confused, and that's what I meant. LiberalOfAnUnknownVariant (talk) 21:25, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Contraception is Darwin's Culture of Death[edit]

I was looking round the web on Thomas Seiler and stumbled across his partner in grime Hugh Owen. Any Dubliners up for a challenge? Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?} 12:14, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

"[unnamed asshat] deliberated on the negative effects of Darwinist philosophy. The theory of evolution has practically destroyed a lot of spheres of civilization." False equivocation strawman. Falsely equivocates between evolution and social Darwinism, and a strawman because almost no one actually thinks like that. To be fair, a possible coherent argument hiding in there somewhere is "one needs to believe in god-given moral rules, otherwise they'll go rape people", but that claim is demonstrably false. LiberalOfAnUnknownVariant (talk) 12:43, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

A new banknote...[edit]

...and more not so well-hidden symbols! Генгис^{Our ignorance is God; what we know is science.} 15:03, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

That's a weird species of goldbug right there. There is some thoroughbred crazy on the other pages. For example, since there is five times less silver in circulation than gold they reason that the "real" price of silver is five times that of gold or $8000 per troy ounce and there must be some sort of conspiracy involving the US federal government (of course), computers and JP Morgan which is keeping silver at this outrageously low price, rather than, as ordinary laymen might think, because you can mine silver for a bit less than $30 per ounce. 82.69.171.94 (talk) 15:36, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

The word "laymen" is the key. Conspiracy theorists love thinking or boasting that they know something the ordinary person doesn't. Elevates his status. Ajkgordon (talk) 15:54, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Conspiracy theories, so complex and well hidden that the normal person cant see them, but so incompetently done that it should be so obvious. --Mikal ^{Harass Follow} 16:07, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Still looks like Monopoly money.

19:48, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Do you think Mitt Romney plays Monopoly with real money?

Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 19:52, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

That's be a bit boring for him, wouldn't it? He passes go and collects 200 quid every second of the day without lifting a finger. He probably more in to hunting the most deadly prey of all on his private island. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 23:02, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

(EC)They're loony, but I was amused at how excited and breathless they were about everything. It's a nice break from the "I'm being repressed!" tone that haunts so many conspiracy theorists.

Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 19:52, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Strange new obsession[edit]

For some reason I have this particular scene from a famous music video stuck in my head. What is happening to me? http://youtu.be/9bZkp7q19f0?t=1m55s Frullic (talk) 02:03, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

It's a sign from God telling you to watch out on your next elevator experience. Sam ^Tally-ho! 03:05, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Destined to become the rickroll of the teens. Matzosphere (talk) 03:11, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

What the fuck is this gangam style thing anyway?

10:17, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

This decade's version of Shaddap You Face. I predict a worldwide sense of embarrassment in a few months. rpeh •T•C•E• 10:59, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Doubtful. The world at large has no shame. AMassiveGay (talk) 13:11, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

What catches, and how much is very difficult to predict. Matzosphere mentions rickroll, well, there were several other roll memes. Duckroll got some traction, but rickroll was so enormous that politicians were doing it. Why was rickroll so much catchier than duckroll or other members of the roll family? We can try to justify it in hindsight but there was no way to predict it in advance. 82.69.171.94 (talk) 13:15, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

**cough**

^sshole

21:01, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Oh no, could I be turning gay? Oh noes! I'm going to be a vile sinner and cause natural disasters due to God being pissed at my appreciation of Doctor Horrible's Sing-Along Blog! Frullic (talk) 00:44, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Was Jimmy Savile a child molester?[edit]

Oh dear Lord. Balaam (talk) 11:14, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Well, my Mum always did say he was a pervert after she met him (thankfully age 20 and surrounded by friends). Judge Holden ^{The Judge Smiles} 11:43, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

He was definitely a bit of a weirdo; Louis Theroux's documentary showed that. He obviously had a mother fixation, keeping all of her dresses after she died.

Генгис^{Is the Pope a Catholic?}

12:25, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

I think it's highly unlikely, this whole posthumous allegation thing always seems a bit suspect. Just because someone is a bit quirky or a bit of a weirdo, doesn't automatically make them a sexcase (or murderer, or any other suchlike shit). DeltaStar_{Senior Sysop}^{Speciationspeed!} 22:11, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Is nothing sacred? What will we discover next? Timmy Mallet was in to cock fighting? Rod Hull hired prostitutes to dress up like Emu and give him blow jobs? --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 22:35, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Sue Thompson, a former BBC producer, tells ITV documentary film-makers that she walked into Jimmy Savile's dressing room and saw him kissing a teenage girl who was sitting on his knee. Esther Rantzen, who also worked at the broadcaster, says the stories of abuse she has heard means 'the jury is no longer out'[3]

Seems pretty damning to me. Balaam (talk) 07:37, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

The only surprising thing for me is that people are surprised. I first heard these rumours over a decade ago but maybe they weren't as widespread as I assumed. For me, the big story here isn't about Saville himself, it's about who knew, when, what etc. The more that comes out, the more it seems likely that several people were covering up this story. rpeh •T•C•E• 08:26, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

New cover article![edit]

Tyrannis finally acted on it: Project Blue Beam. What's next? - David Gerard (talk) 06:47, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Bickering over whether or not it's worthy--"Shut up, Brx." 06:48, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Was I always this cynical?--"Shut up, Brx." 06:49, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

No, stop edging in on others territory. As for this, i will vote for it, because PBB is my favorite conspiracy theory. --Mikal ^{Harass Follow} 07:19, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Uh, it's been nominated for almost 6 months now. Тy^{Bother me} 07:31, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, it's been tarted as far as is reasonable and no-one has objected so Ty suffered a rush of blood to the head - David Gerard (talk) 08:18, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Тy^{Bother me} 08:24, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Half a bleedin' century![edit]

So tomorrow marks the 50th anniversary of the release of both Love Me Do and Dr No. Oh boy, do I feel old. Генгис^{Our ignorance is God; what we know is science.} 08:14, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Still love Dr. No even if it is rather hokey. Fond memories of watching it regularly as a kid on television during those James Bond marathons with my old man, who is a Bond fanboy.--BMcP - Just an astronomy guy 12:01, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Android tablet[edit]

Any recommendations on one? Also, I am wondering if there is a g3 option with some sort of pay-as-you-go data plan in the US. I'll only need wireless for when I'm at home, but it would be cool to be able to use g3 when I'm on the road and away from a network. Also, it would need to have a media player that can play FLACs--that's why no Apple product. Anyone have any tips for a not-too-techy guy? JubalHarshaw (talk) 14:05, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

I really like my asus, for about 200 bucks, but it's not G3 compat. the new Galaxy Note ten is frigging amazing. My step mom (a 70 year old, "i'm retired i want to learn to draw and stuff") amature artist loves the way it incorporates a super quality old style drawing tabled into the works, so she can make her 'paintings'. It's 4G, great memory but uber pricy.--

Godotrien ne marcherait 17:00, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

There are iPad apps to play FLACs on iPads. Ajkgordon (talk) 17:35, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

A funny[edit]

I'm sure you've seen this, but if not got humans.--Godotrien ne marcherait 17:00, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Imagine the Terri Schiavo fight, except she's alive and coherent[edit]

Disgusting. -- Seth Peck (talk) 16:59, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Sick. It is her life, her body, she is suffering. death is part of life, let her go.--

Godotrien ne marcherait 17:47, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

How weird is this headline[edit]

"Canada cheese-smuggling ring busted" Oh, Canada. --AmazingTechnicolorCheeseWedge (talk) 20:57, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

In the sidebar next to it is (for now) "Nazi Buddha originally from Space." Sophie^Wilder 21:27, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Must've been Mexican cheese, cause as I understand it, Mexico and Canada excluded their bilateral dairy trade from liberalization in the NAFTA. It's probably a bunch of greedy anti-New World Order capitalists. nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 22:37, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Apparently it was US cheese. It was smuggled to dodge the tariffs on quantities greater than 20kg.--"Shut up, Brx." 00:05, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

20 kilos has some bulk, must've been smuggled in 18 wheelers (about 23 tons capacity) through a regular pipeline. To beat the taxman and undercut Canuck producers must be well worth the risk. Increased regulation and taxes rarely solves the problem of a blackmarket, rather, history shows it exacerbates it. I suspect there will be more and more of this, as poverty rises, jobs stagnate, deficits and inflation swell, etc. etc. nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 04:06, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Headline: "cheese smuggling between Canada and US!" Rob: "It must have been Mexican!" HAHAHAAAAA you tit. Sophie^Wilder 12:10, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Let me 'splain. You can make a few bucks hauling cheese across the border from Wisconsin or New York State, but haul a load from Mexico -- that's where the cash is. And we know where the best entry points from the Prohibition days. Shit, when I was a kid colored oleo margarine was illegal in Wisconsin and we used to do runs from the Illinois state line all the time which were well worth it economically. nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 12:31, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Let me 'splain. How does talking about running stuff from Canada to the US (Prohibition) or from Illinois to Wisconsin 'splain anything about you dragging Mexico into this discussion? JubalHarshaw (talk) 13:03, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Shorter version: What's that got to do with the price of fish?

 -- Seth Peck (talk) 15:23, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

This is not about fish, it's about cheese. Pay attention. Doctor Dark (talk) 16:05, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Rob didn't read the headline, he read the link text. He made the assumption that the cheese was Mexican because he believes smuggling cheese from Mexico would be a profitable enterprise. Give him a break. --"Shut up, Brx." 16:18, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ While the cheese entered Canada from the US, and while those making the delivery of the cheese may have been US citizens, the cheese itself may have been of Mexican origin because cheese of Mexican origin under NAFTA maybe purchased in the United States cheaper than in Canada. It is not illegal to smuggle Mexican cheese into the United States. Cheese of Mexican origin can be brought to a Canadian border crossing point legally. And the price of Mexican cheese in the US is cheaper than American cheese. From an economic standpoint, the decision to violate Canadian tariff restrictions would only be viable if the rewards were worth maximizing the risk, i.e., reduce costs to the maximum (meaning buy Mexican cheese) and dumping it in Canada where it commands the highest price. Buy low, sell high. Only than can the potential rewards outweigh the penalties or taxes imposed by government. Does that answer the question? nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 16:57, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

It would appear that the cheese "comes from the U.S.. JubalHarshaw (talk) 17:05, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Hey Rob, I'd ask you how your shoe tastes now, but as we've all seen from people like Romney, Gingrich and Bachmann, it's impossible to put your foot in your mouth when your head is up your ass. -- Seth Peck (talk) 17:11, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

That does not mean jackshit. US cheese purchased in the US may not be cheese of US origin. Cheese manufactures and distributors (like Kraft Foods, for example) have for years been outsourcing manufacturing and production to Mexico. Here's a link to the Oleo Wars, of which I am a proud veteran, having served with distinction. nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 17:27, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Run along, then, and find documented evidence that this cheese, in this case, came from Mexico. Or quit flappin' yer gums about stuff you just made up. JubalHarshaw (talk) 17:37, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

"Production growth in Mexico will respond to exports (from the US) of inputs for dairy production and processing and incentives for investment in the dairy sector in Mexico." See also section on Rules of Origin. "U.S. food processors moved to Mexico to take advantage of low wages and food imports soared." "In 2003, the stock of U.S. direct investment in Mexican processed food industries totaled $1.7 billion. Mexican direct investment in U.S. processed food industries was $1.1 billion. FDI has created multinational food companies in both countries." IOW, while NAFTA has been beneficial US dairy producing states such as Wisconsin & upstate New York creating an expanded market in Mexico, it is raw foodstuffs exported there, processed by Mexican workers and resold in the United States by multinational food processors. Canada has exempted itself from dairy products under NAFTA, therefore dairy products like cheese produced in Wisconsin & New York are shipped to Mexico, processed (additives and preserves added), packaged, and re-imported into the US, and then smuggled into Canada cause it's still cheaper than the money greedy evil Canadian dairy farmers get by screwing their fellow citizens with government backed subsidies, price supports, and import quotas. nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 18:21, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

How much time did you spend digging that up? Says nothing about this cheese in particular. Run off and try again. JubalHarshaw (talk) 18:24, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Look at the USDA website: Processed food products do not require country of origin labeling. But many do have it anyway, even when there are multiple countries if origin. I've seen one with no less than 8 countries of origin. nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 18:38, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

US cheese? LOL

Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member}

19:18, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Talking about US cheese, this Canadian was quite confused when he visited friends in Washington and everyone piled into a Subway for lunch, and he was asked if he wanted Cheddar or American cheese on his sandwich. Ochotonaprinceps ^{not a pokémon} 10¹³ points 23:32, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Harrumph. The nation-wide brands are unremarkable, but don't overlook the more local fare.

Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 00:33, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

In fairness to me, this was a Subway restaurant, where the cheese comes in slices separated by thin paper sheets in a stack. I much prefer cheese that requires at least a little disassembly before it's ready to go on a sandwich (other than "unwrapping"). Unfortunately, for very obvious reasons, Tillamook won't ship north over the border. Ochotonaprinceps ^{not a pokémon} 10¹³ points 01:02, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

US cheese, in the form of sharp Vermont cheddar from the local stupor market, works perfectly well in daily use, thank you very much. If I wanted to be a bleeding aesthete and rub elbows with trendy young types, I could go downtown, where there's this joint on Main Street with a long row of microbrew taps. They will set a slate tile on the bar in front of you with an array of cheeses on it, more or less like an artist's palette. As precious as the presentation is, it's still pretty tasty. I don't go there very often. Sprocket J Cogswell (talk) 16:29, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Nazi Buddha originally from Space[edit]

Someone had fun writing that headline. It's about a Buddha statue found by a Nazi expedition (apparently not the ahnenerbe). It was made from a meteorite. Cool stuff.--"Shut up, Brx." 00:08, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Talking about Smuggling[edit]

Did you know that, in the period where Canadian meat imports into the US were restricted/prohibited during the Mad Cow Disease scare, Canadian haggis was smuggled south across the border? Significant quantities of haggis was smuggled across for Burns Night celebrations, as haggis could not legally be brought into or sold in the US due to the ingredients, some of which contravened the Mad Cow prohibitions. Ochotonaprinceps ^{not a pokémon} 10¹³ points 23:32, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

The Boundary Waters are ideal for smugglers. Even if you know the territory well, you're never quite sure if you are in the US or Canada at any point. nobs^{Corporations are people, too} 00:10, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

My dad was a Canadian cop (RCMP, the Mounties), spent much of the prohibition period on that border (St Lawrence river) and busted a fair number of people smuggling booze. All he & his colleagues ever actually caught though were local farm boys or Indians from the area's reserves running boatloads, or in winter truckloads, across the river. What they really wanted and never managed was to get a few "Mr Big" types, the Toronto and Montreal businessmen making millions off the trade. They were pretty sure who they were, but couldn't prove it. Those families are now pillars of the establishment, among Canada's best-known rich folk. Pashley (talk) 10:09, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Iran & WMD[edit]

So last night I was watching some of the debate for the senate election here , and heard the Republican Candidate (Fischer) say something about "how in 3 years Iran will have ICBM's that can carry nukes to america!"; and after laughing at her for about a minute, it left me wondering where on earth they expect Iran to get that much capability in a fraction of the time it's taking other countries. I'd ask the question of "why would Iran bother with reaching the US" but... war mongering. --Mikal ^{Harass Follow} 15:30, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

If my memory serves, Iran barely has the rocketry capacity to reach Israel, let alone the United States. I think there are some conservatives out there who seem to think that Iran is closer to the United States than, say, Russia or China, because it looks that way on a flat map. (But then again, I've also trounced some friends of friends for thinking that Pakistan and Libya are similar) -- Seth Peck (talk) 16:42, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Really? What sort of geodetic projection puts Iran closer to the US than Russia or China?

Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member}

16:53, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

That's my point. The way you hear people talk about it, it sounds like they think Iran is just around the corner, like in Morocco or France. -- Seth Peck (talk) 17:29, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Well you need ICBM capability to hit American with a nuclear warhead from Iran. The fear from what I understand in government circles is that Iran could launch a medium range missile in the Atlantic from a ship, and use it as an EMP weapon by simply exploding it in the upper atmosphere. Given that most of our critical electronics are not adequately protected from a strong EM pulse, such a low cost move would be devastating.--BMcP - Just an astronomy guy 18:26, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Could an Iranian warship get to the Atlantic without the US military knowing about it? Would being able to get such ordnance into position be possible? (am I overestimating the US military's intelligence assets, or are other people underestimating them?) -- Seth Peck (talk) 18:32, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it is possible. The ocean is very large. And as we learned from September 11, 2001, it would appear the US depends more on the enemy's stupidity than its own brilliance. --TheLateGatsby (talk) 18:46, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

So you're saying that the Iranian ports AREN'T being actively surveyed by American/NATO satellites, and seeing a warship leaving south around Cape of Good Hope wouldn't raise ANY flags? Also, 9/11 was clearly not a military failure, but one of internal security. -- Seth Peck (talk) 18:52, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Presumably the US can tell whether or not Iran has submarines capable of launching ballistic missiles, but they're difficult to track on the open sea. And yes, 9/11 was not a military failure, but it certainly proved the US is not impenetrable. --TheLateGatsby (talk) 18:57, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

We probably would track Iranian naval movements in the Atlantic but that doesn't mean that would prevent them launching such a device; after all tracking and first strike initiative are two different things. Would we be able to stop them once we detected a launch? Only thing I could think of to completely prevent such a scenario from occuring is to unilaterally intercept any attempt by Iranian ships from deploying close enough where such a threat is plausible; I however don't feel such political will would be there. --BMcP - Just an astronomy guy 19:46, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

I doubt very much that Iran has submarine technology, especially anything that would be able to approach the continental US and launch an ICBM. Iran has poor access to open waters and even if they might like to think that they control the Straits of Hormuz they would not be able to exit without the US knowing about it.

Генгис^{Gum disease}

20:02, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

The Iranians bought arms on the open market like everyone else. They have submarines built by the Russians (not nuclear submarines obviously, the Russians aren't actually stupid) and they've endeavoured to develop their own. Probably they can't sneak about in those submarines because they're too shit (the Russian ones will be intentionally not good enough to sneak up on the Russians for example). But anyway, the point is that if you can sneak up to someone's coast you don't need an ICBM. The idea of submarine launched ICBMs is that if the bad guys kill you your submarine pops up somewhere completely unrelated, and launches ICBMs at them from literally half way around the world. It's a deterrent against decapitation strikes. That's why the missile submarines are nuclear - only nuclear power lets you cruise around underwater for months somewhere random, any other power source would need refuelling and give away your position. 82.69.171.94 (talk) 21:28, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

People are obsessed with missiles. This is old cold war thinking based on the question of who could get most of the things in the air quickest and thus win the nuclear missile pissing contest. Why would Iran want to use an ICBM? It couldn't possibly win said nuclear pissing competition with the US.

The logical thing would be to load a nuclear bomb into a cargo vessel, sail it though some neutral ports - or transship it - and then sail it, or them, into US harbour cities. About 1,000 times easier than miniaturising it and putting it on top of an untested ICBM. You get the further massive advantage of denyability which you wouldn't get with an ICBM.

Denyability is important because, you know, the US might just respond a little aggressively if it knew for sure where the bomb came from.--Weirdstuff (talk) 21:45, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

These people know what they're talking about. LiberalOfAnUnknownVariant (talk) 11:55, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Actually deploying a bomb isn't in their interest. They want to project an image of capability, so they wouldn't use a bomb and then deny any involvement, unless they somehow directly benefited from the bombing. And they wouldn't use a a bomb and then admit it, either, because they would soon disappear in a cloud of dust. No, they want a bomb so they can wave it around in everyone's faces, and the moment they use it, they've got nothing left to wave around. They want a bomb for deterrent purposes, probably on the assumption that if they have a bomb, it will basically be impossible for any foreign nation to invade on threat of retaliation. I know a lot of hay is made of "but they're crazy! they could do anything!" but it takes a truly crazy person to disregard their own self-preservation and Iran's top brass would have to be literally full of them. I'm sure they know enough of the basics of game theory to know that they can't just start bombing as soon as they gets nukes and then expect to continue to live. ^{ONE / TALK} 11:06, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

I present this only as a possibility, but I've heard some talk, such as by Christopher Hitchens, that some of that top brass, like the current president, do believe the endtimes are near. I hate betting the lives of so many on the sanity of so few who have already proclaimed tenuous links to reality, such as holocaust denialism. Do I actually have a plan to do anything about it? Not really. Meh. LiberalOfAnUnknownVariant (talk) 20:42, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

US residents - last week to register![edit]

In most states (CA the major exception) this is the last week to register to vote for US elections. If you've not yet registered, do so. If you are registered, make sure you know where and how to vote, what ID you need, etc. New laws might make it difficult for you to walk into your polling place if you are a student, or have moved in the last 6 months. Be informed. Vote! (Brought to you by your neighborhood annoyance, door knocker, and website heckler).--Godotrien ne marcherait 15:39, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Speaking of that, PA has had its Voter ID law blocked--Mikal ^{Harass Follow} 15:48, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm pretty happy with the judical system this year. They have consistantly said "you cannot do this nonsense, especially not within 60 days of an election, in a presidential year. Colorado has an law that any major election code change must be done on an odd year (no Senate, house or president) so it can be tested and voters can be informed. I think judges around the nation are following that kind of mind set, law or not.--

Godotrien ne marcherait 16:16, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

So, back to the old trick of "If you wish to vote Republican, turn up on Nov 6, but if you wish to vote Democratic, turn up Nov 7."