RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive99

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, (new)(back)

Got me a ticket for an aeroplane

I leave for Germany today. Hurrah!

I think the part of my trip I'm looking most forward to is introducing my nieces to the joys of Sir Terry Pratchett. I have a copy of Where's My Cow? for them. i've already practiced reading it aloud. Twice. MDB (talk) 10:25, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

How old are they? Get them Truckers, Diggers & Wings if they're a bit older. Crundy^{Talk nerdy to me} 10:28, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

One till turn eight this Sunday (we get to celebrate her birthday in Paris) and the other will be three in May. MDB (talk) 10:43, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Wikia vs Referata

I am working on my own encyclopedia. Right now it is on Wikia, but I was thinking about moving it to Referata. But I'm not sure what to do. Wikia's default skin is very fugly (not that I see it much, I login and change my skin to Monobook... but you can't change the default skin to do that.) Referata default skin is much nicer, they seem more flexible and more responsive to the community. On the other hand, Wikia is the Jimbo Wales-backed corporate behemoth, Referata the little guy by comparison. I am a bit worried Referata will be less stable (I've heard some things it hasn't been so stable in the past), and what if they go belly up and bye-bye goes my hardwork wiki (the big downside of the cloud, especially when the cloud is free...) Wikia feels safer in that regard. So, what do people think I should do... Wiki or Referata? (another option is to get my own hosting, but not so keen on spending monies right now...) --(((Zack Martin)))^™ 11:00, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

really only you can make the choice. attractive usability or guaranteed being-still-up-ness for the next few years? Which of these is the most important? Having my own wiki was great until somehow the code went all wrong (dunno how) and i lost everything. That hurt. Totnesmartin (talk) 15:17, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Beware of Wikia. I suggest moving your wiki off before it's big enough for Wikia to care about its influence on their ad revenue. If it comes to that, Wikia will insist on keeping a dead shell alive with no pointers to the new address. 䯂 (talk) 16:06, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't want to second-guess Maratrean's intentions, but his wiki'll probably be just him and a few like-minded friends. The WOWwiki has (presumably) a much bigger and wider-spread userbase. Mind you RW was just a bunch of people who'd been kicked off CP, so... Totnesmartin (talk) 16:30, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh, certainly, but I did link to another wiki there (I personally know another wiki that died before managing to move because of the skin change). For me, it's more a matter of principle than anything. 䯂 (talk) 16:33, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Anyway, I assume Referata keeps backups, so in the long run I think it'd be quite unlikely to lose your wiki, even if Refarata dies. 䯂 (talk) 16:33, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

VMWare Player

Wow, the VMware website has to be one of the worst sites I've ever come across. Has anyone here managed to actually download VMware Player? Basically you create an account and get an email verification sent to you, so you click the link and they ask you to enter your password, and then you get a 403 page saying you need to log on to access the page. So you log in first and get told you have to verify your address, copy and paste the link from your email, and get the same problem. That's if you actually get the page asking you to verify your address, sometimes you get redirected to a page asking you to log in or create an account after you log in, and if you do log in you get redirected back to the same page with no error message. Doesn't give me much confidence in the product! Crundy^{Talk nerdy to me} 13:19, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Huh, seems they just don't like IE. I tried it with FF and it works fine. Bastards. Crundy^{Talk nerdy to me} 13:27, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Who does like IE? NDSP 15:12, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

I do. Crundy^{Talk nerdy to me} 15:35, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

It's not that bad, either. Most of people's hatred of it is just overhyped and due to Firefox fanboys being snarky. If a website isn't supported by a browser, it's the site developers fault, not the browser. Basic compatibility across different platforms is the bare minimum you expect from a website. ADK^{...I'll oscillate your hot dog!} 15:44, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Yeah no. --85.76.220.87 (talk) 15:51, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

VMWare is...bulky, but it functions, and probably isn't as bad as their site. (I never had to wade through it because I only use VMs on other people's servers.) Meanwhile, Armond is clearly wrong and Firefox's HTML interpretation is objectively correct. ~ Kupochama^[1][2] 16:01, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

(EC*3) Midori these days. Тy^Talk. 16:03, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

That does not apply if the browser fails massively to conform to standards, which was universally the case with IE6 and earlier, and largely the case with IE7. (IE8 improved standards support, and IE9 is doing so further, but they're still not as good as almost every other browser.) It is not the fault of a correctly-written site that a browser is not correctly-written enough to display it, especially if just about every other browser out there can. A site owner has no obligation to add browser-specific hacks, which is what is required to contort IE into submission. 䯂 (talk) 16:10, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

The Good Book

Just asking, has anyone seen this yet? --Scream!! (talk) 19:55, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Nope. Sounds neat, but I'd probably disagree with its approach too often to read it. I get that way with modern philosophy. 99.50.96.218 (talk) 20:06, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Giving up Facebook

I just really think it's sad that 2/3 of the friends I have on Facebook I don't even know. I have them from sending out friend requests in Superhero City. The games suck on Facebook, (click a few buttons, wait a few hours, click some more buttons.) I don't care how cute your cat looks or how much you like bananas. I could post feelings and thoughts, but no one really cares! I mean, who would really give a fuck if I finally saw Rebuild of Evangelion 2.22? The only reason I'm not deleting my account is that some asswipe hacked my hotmail account and deleted my contacts.--Thanatos (talk) 00:40, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

And that is reason #8 that I don't have one. Good for you. Тy^Talk. 00:42, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Wait—stop the presses—Evangelion 2.22 is out already? : ) Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 01:52, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, aside from the fanservice, pretty awesome. I decided to wait till it came out on DVD so that I would have an inclination to purchase the complete set.--Thanatos (talk) 02:30, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

I like Facebook. There is no better way for me to reconnect with old friends and yell at them about politics. ATP (talk) 03:20, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

I like facebook. But I keep it clean as shit. I'm constantly deleting my friends. But since my android uses it for a contact list, I don't have to keep track of most of my friends phone numbers anymore. But I only use it to keep in touch with people. I also post baby pics for friends and family. And I saw both the new Eva's when they came out in Japan. I did just download the dubs, to watch with friends and my wife, but I've yet to pull them up. Quaru^{ninja - You can't explain that!} 03:30, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Not to sound too much like a parrot, but I like it too. At least as a "tool", which is what Zuckerberg and co. were marketing it as before the power went to their heads and decided they wanted to rule the world with it. But apart from organising events I just use it as a glorified soapbox. ^narchist 09:56, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

It's decent to keep in contact with old mates, and that's about as far as my love for it goes. I don't add people I met one time for five minutes at this place or that, I don't "like" things, I don't post updates of meaningful song lyrics and all my really-Super-deep-complex feelings and I don't feed other's people's attention whoring attempts on it, the latter of which is the thing that really gets my goat on it. SJ ^Debaser 09:58, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Hey! If you can't attention whore on the Internet, what can you do? ^narchist 11:07, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

I like to laugh at videos of monkeys. Monkeys are cool. Facebook attention whores aren't. It's all good and well when you're fifteen years old, but I have people in their twenties and thirties who constantly post vague statements such as, "so pisszed off!!!@@;2 GRRR!!" or "that went well!!" or "sum ppl need to mind there own fuckin buziness!!", who I subsequently delete or remove from my live feed as it makes me want to punch them. Fortunately none of my close friends do that frequently, and it's usually the ones I know vaguely through school/uni etc. SJ ^Debaser 11:52, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

/memo to self. Never use FB when pissed and when SJ is online. --PsyGremlinTal! 16:00, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Or else I shall write a second scathing attack! SJ ^Debaser 17:25, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Outside of RationalWiki, I have come to know Psygremlin as "guy who likes a lot of Cracked articles". Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 20:30, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

First, you should rethink how cute my cat is. Second, I quit facebook a couple weeks ago as a social experiment of sorts and I have a few findings:

1. I'm much more productive.
2. Facebook mostly fools you into thinking you're being social. Chances are, you're not and it's all in your head.
3. My smalltalk has dropped substantially - awesome.
4. I find myself actually having to call people and go places when I get bored. At least notably more than with facebook. Occasionaluse (talk) 20:34, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree with the previous post in that I always find myself being more productive when I stop using facebook for several days/weeks/months, etc. Unfortunately, I now find that I surf RW instead of visiting Facebook, which is significantly better, right? ... Really, though, I still use facebook to upload the hundreds of photos I take on my travels, since I can email the links to family that don't use many online services and prefer just to click a link in their email. Saves me from having to email hundreds of pictures, but also lets them "check up on me" and see the places I go clearly represented in a nice, flat, 2D image. Perfect! Plus since I only have about 40 online friends or so, it keeps the update page nice and simple without loads of junk cluttering it up. άλφα^Talk 20:10, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Roswell admission

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/51593226-90/fbi-utah-documents-vault.html.csp

Apparently it did happen. I have a feeling someone in the FBI is out to punk the tinfoil hatters, but hey, maybe something did happen... ^narchist 17:35, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Skousen died four years ago. ħuman 02:23, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

http://skepticblog.org/2011/04/11/guy-hottel-document-ufo-proof/ New article? --ZooGuard (talk) 13:26, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

But they admitted it was a flying saucer anyway - it hit the headlines. Then changed their minds realising it was a weather balloon or something or even if there were memos released it could just prove their mistake happened - something we already know!! The skepticblog is interesting stuff, though. You don't seem the lamestream (lol) media tearing it apart like that. 17:38, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Articles on Nicotine addiction vs other drugs

Can anyone with better wikifu than me find any animal studies quantifying how addictive nicotine is compared to caffeine etc? All I can find are blog articles saying shit like OMGZ0RZ! NICOTINE IZ AS ADDICTIVE AS CRACKHEROIN!!11 with fuck all references or evidence. Crundy^{Talk nerdy to me} 21:22, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

You mean dependence liability (the more formal term)? If you can find a copy of Carlton K. Erickson's The Science of Addiction there's a section with references to the primary literature. There are different scales of dependence liability, as well. sterile funeral director 21:33, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

(EC)Blimey, I looked up alkaloids (the class of chemicals that includes caffeine, nicotine etc) but even that way I couldn't find a graded list or anything like it. I'm not sure levels of addiction are strictly quantifiable anyway, apart from rough measures of thumb. Totnesmartin (talk) 21:42, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

See Wikipedia's substance dependence article for more. sterile funeral director 21:45, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

That WP article only lists Tobacco dependence, I'm really trying to find just nicotine itself. I'm curious as to whether the actual addictive property of smoking is the action of smoking itself or (as people always harp on about) the nicotine. Reason why is firstly NRT has an overall success rate of only 2.8% when using prescription and 6.3% with group support[1], and in a trial whereby tobacco smokers were given eCigs, half containing nicotine and half containing no nicotine, both groups in the short term showed roughly the same satisfaction for alleviation of cravings[2]. Therefore I'm led to believe that although nicotine is addictive, I suspect it's the act of smoking and the "throat hit" that actually causes cessation relapses. I just wanted to see animal studies which somehow quantified the addiction to nicotine in relation to a similar (although not pharmacalogically) stimulant such as caffeine. Crundy^{Talk nerdy to me} 08:41, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Ok, so this is anecdotal but... For forty five years I found that whenever I smoked a cigarette I felt good in that, temporarily, the nicotine craving was reduced. Forty five years of conditioning has linked smoking a cigarette with a pleasurable feeling, this pigeon has been pecking away all that time and this has been the hardest thing - four years smoke free now - to crack. The nicotine addiction is all but over in three days or so, the psychological conditioning took much, much longer and, indeed, still lingers occasionally.

So, what's the point of this - well, of all the addictive substances tobacco tends to be the one with the longest period before trying to kick the habit - well, at least for my generation. As such it has a very high psychological addiction level. Of course, there's no direct measure for this. Jack Hughes (talk) 11:45, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

You may not be able to tease that apart. Part of the psychological part of addiction is cues that cause craving. It's pretty hard to take someone out of his or her environment to determine that. Certainly there's a lot of evidence that nicotine causes a "rewiring" of the brain via acetylcholine receptors (I think those are the ones). sterile funeral director 11:51, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nAChR). I'm looking into notion that "Nicotine is just as addictive as heroin" and wondering if it's actually "Tobacco smoking is just as addictive as heroin". Crundy^{Talk nerdy to me} 12:54, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

There is undoubtedly both an "oral" and "manual" component to smoking which reinforces the addiction; we see similar fixations in children being weaned off a teat and people chewing pens or gum. I think that one of the problems with obesity is actually an oral sensitory addiction. The sensory homunculus model which shows a hypersized mouth and hands compared to the body and even the sex organs demonstrates the importance to the sensory cortex of these stimuli.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 13:48, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

I taught a course on drug stuff, although (obviously) I'm not an expert. I'll see what I can find when I get a chance. Part of the challenge is that smoking is one of the fastest ways to get a drug in a body, expect, of course, that injecting it is even faster. sterile funeral director 17:21, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

I seem to remember reading that smoking is both physiologically and physiologically addicting. In other words the addiction was not just caused by the nicotine but also by the whole ritual of opening the packet offering them around, putting it in you mouth, lighting it etc. There is also the question of the social bonding amongst smokers. Having said that, I seem to recall that the article compared it to heroin addiction which had similar rituals around "shooting up" and also had its own social bonding effect amongst addicts.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 18:41, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Bob, you might want to proofread that first sentence.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 18:46, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

It's all about controlling fire with one's lips. ħuman 04:16, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

traffic spike

There is a bit of a post-mortem on the traffic spike at the tech blog. Tmtoulouse (talk) 00:02, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

IRC

Do we have an IRC channel for RW? Where is it? If not, we should get one.--Brxbrx (talk) 21:45, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

There is one somewhere: pointless. --Scream!! (talk) 21:51, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Place is dead. Тy^Talk. 22:34, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

I have a partial log of IRC from back in the day, if any of you are interested in what it was like before rigor mortis set in. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 22:42, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Put on RWW, please :) Тy^Talk. 22:43, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Only after I carefully remove any personal information from the log, of course. Which could take a while, given how large it is. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 22:58, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

We should get it going again. Where is it? ^EXTERMINATE 22:46, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, that was one of the reasons for IRC dropping off: RA's copying and republishing what was said on IRC. --Scream!! (talk) 22:48, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Details at IRC. I joined! ^EXTERMINATE 22:52, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Where it lasted a whopping half hour before I deleted it. I was unaware you could RUIN FOREVER something in that short a time frame. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 22:58, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

FWIW, I still dip in occasionally; it's not really active, but it's a completely disjoint community of people who have next to no presence here, and they're quite interesting. Time drug Phantom! 20:35, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Are they still there? They were some nice people, indeed, even though, strangely, they weren't RWians. I liked Adny and the two girls who used it to chat. Good people. ħuman 06:14, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm totally not on there. And totally not stalking human from now on. Atreus (talk) 07:23, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Capturebot 3.0

I've developed a bit of javascript that grabs difflinks from a remote wiki on demand, and I was thinking I can develop this in to a sort of "distributed capturebot" to evade CP's rampant blocking. There are two approaches we can do here:

1) Let the person who submits the link's browser do the work of grabbing the diff as well. This is straightfoward but probably makes them a target for blocking. 2) A rampantly distributed approach. Put the diff in a job queue and have a random visitor's (or two visitor's, just to be safe) browsers grab diff. This fireproofs us against blocking, unless they're going to block the entire universe.

If we need a 3.0 capturebot, which approach should we prefer? The grabbing process is entirely transparent to the user, so we can even use non-logged-in people for the task. A little anti-spoofing logic is required for approach 2, but nothing radical. On the other hand, 2 might be seen as a little underhanded. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 01:26, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

3) Let it die already. -- Nx / talk 04:55, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Тy^Talk. 12:31, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

That's helpful. ħuman 05:19, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Shouldn't this question have been posted at Talk:WIGOCP or Technical support, rather than the Saloon bar? Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 22:56, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

It's of site-wide interest, so it's here. And learn how to indent, "Stabby". ħuman 07:56, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

That's a direct indent, indicating who he was replying to. Mei III (talk) 08:18, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

More airline moans

I'm in an Air France lounge and get the following bullshit:

“”Le site auquel vous avez essayé d'accéder http://rationalwiki.org/ est classé dans la catégorie Non Reconnu.

Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member} 09:39, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Stupid filters. I love it when they don't even make a small amount of sense. (I hope I got that right. I actually know zero french) Quaru^{ninja - You can't explain that!} 13:33, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

And yet you managed to post the complaint?  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 17:36, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

is this site satire?

It's often hard for me to tell. Also, I got a job interview tomorrow at Food City. Wish me luck! Anyways, the site.--Brxbrx (talk) 23:21, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

No, that is a legitimate Old Earth Creationist site. ListenerX^TalkerX 03:12, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

RussianalWiki

Is that going to happen soon? When it does, will the edits to the Russian articles stop clogging up recent changes? No joke, Chromium just tried to translate Recent Changes for me because it thought I was on a Russian site. P-Foster (talk) 18:19, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

It's happening now. If I am correct, Bertran is already in the process of transferring the content over to RussianalWiki. The Goonie 1 ^{What's this button do? Uh oh....} 18:29, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

In Russia, wiki rationalize YOU! Doctor Dark (talk) 18:52, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Are we really calling it "Russian RationalWiki" and missing the chance to call it "RussionalWiki"? –SuspectedReplicant retire me 19:40, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

RUSSIANALWIKI IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!!! ^narchist 20:41, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

I have always loved the concept of "clogging recent changes". ħuman 02:15, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Wherein Rob demonstrates the CP understanding of Community

That's right. Can't even afford to pay the bills now -- that's why they're running a Pay-pal beg-a-thon. And Russian per capita incme is what, $2 a day? how many other than Vladimir Puto cn write a $1000 check? nobs^{don't bother me} 22:33, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Rob, one day you'll say something and not look stupid. In the meantime, keep practising. Генгис^{RationalWiki GOLD member} 23:22, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Fuck you, Rob. In the ass. How much do the people over at CP pay out-of-pocket to support the "community" that you guys have created over there? Wait, what's that? Nothing? Yeah, go back to sucking on ASchlafly's dick for access to the net for your stupid views. You'd have more chance on him than with Kara Duhe, I'm sure. P-Foster (talk) 23:31, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Why? Because Andy Schlafly is am independently successful lawyer who argues cases before the Supreme Court? When the last time any of you brilliant pukes argued a case before the Supreme Court? And with his deservedly high fees he makes humanitarian contributions to knowledge and future generations by not charging access to his website? How about the dedicaion and donation of his valuable time to school kids, aside from work& family? How much of yourselves do you guys "give back to the community"? What? Ar you proud this successful group of medical doctors, pschycologists, biologists, and lawyers, as tpo go beggig for cash like Tammy Faye Baker or Benny Hinn to keep your school for hackers & trolls operating? Jezuz H. Christ. nobs^{don't bother me} 02:27, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Wa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! Oh my gosh, that's some funny shit right there. Wow, Rob, if you seriously believe what you wrote above, you take the word "delusional" to new and scary places. What a perfect little acolyte you are. --PsyGremlinПоговорите! 11:13, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Christ, Rob, even you cannot seriously claim that Andy's contributions to Conservapedia can by any stretch of the imagination be called "humanitarian contributions to knowledge and future generations". You might as well make the same claim about the wads of Kleenix I jerk off into. Oh, and since when does having a sinecure based entirely on parentage count as "independently successful". "Dependently marginal" is far more accurate. "Donation of his valuable time to school kids"? How is charging several hundred dollars for an automatic "A" in the most intellectually unrigorous class a "donation"? He runs a scheme tantamount to a diploma mill, minus the diploma. You know, I think this is the first time I've ever heard anyone from CP actually defend Andy, and it's pretty fucking hilarious. I never imagined anyone there having any respect for the guy, just seeing him as same mildly retarded manchild who gives them free webhosting for their pet projects. You almost have me convinced you actually have an iota of respect for the guy. Almost, though; you're not quite there. DickTurpis (talk) 03:19, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and only the most desperate and pathetic hacks go around begging for cash right? DickTurpis (talk) 03:29, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

By Supreme Court you mean the state of New Jersey right? Where he managed it by pigging backing onto an extreme right wing cause at the very tail end of the process? That was the case where he was actually laughed at by the judges right? Laughed at. In court. In his face. The one he lost terribly? By teaching you mean the one he charges more per student then major state universities charge? And delivers mediocre, at best, material and half assed exams and assignments? Oh yes, a paragon of success. No one is "begging for cash." This site is literally owned, operated and financed by its users. Because it is a community, a rich and vibrant community. That is something that CP's eccentric group of half a dozen aging curmudgeons could never hope to have. CP doesn't ask for money because it is a festering, dieing community being propped up by a running joke who is disavowed from even his right wing ideological counter parts. The ability to fully fund this site by user donations of $5-$10 is a something we get to do not something we have to do. Tmtoulouse (talk) 02:45, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Realy? Then why are you complaining about all the deadbeat givers here:

• When are (sic) greatest limiting resource is financial we have to be smart about how we spend our money. nobs^{don't bother me} 00:19, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

<snigger>Realy?[sic]</snigger> --Scream!! (talk) 02:08, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

How is that a complaint? It is a statement of fact. Take a look at some of the limitations at conservapedia, an extremely small enclosed community with no growth in years, technical incompetence, and a negative reputation writ large. Those are limitations which we do not have. We do not have a bank account with several million dollars in it to support infrastructure expansion that we do not need.

If you go on to read further in the post you will see that I pointed out that the number of donations received and the amount received is beating out my expectations by a lot. We are close to $600 in a few days, and had set what we thought was a high goal of a $1000 and 4 weeks to get it in. Tmtoulouse (talk) 00:25, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Well if you ever want to get out of the science business you may have a future in sales. Good transition from the original bait to a switch for cash. Or perhaps a charitable fundraising extraordinaire, like Jeremy Reynalds. nobs^{don't bother me} 03:44, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Nobby, you just don't get it, do you? We have a "budget" and we do "fundraisers" roughly quarterly to meet it. The goal is to have a year's costs in the bank, over time. Meanwhile, when we run our little fundraiser, the response is amazing. The point is not to spend a $1000 a month instead of $130 just to deal with occasional huge increases in traffic because people like stuff on our site but to slowly build the operation. ħuman 04:25, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Here's an idea: get a clckbot running til the server melts down, go back to Ratwikiblog & say al-Qeade did it, wait for a call from O'Reilly & and Anderson Cooper, then make a pitch on TV nationwide for funds. nobs^{don't bother me} 04:31, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Wow, that's stupid. You don't get it, do you? At all? 3 or 4 times a year we invite those interested to throw in a few dollars to keep this place live. The results have been very good. We simply offer value for money, we don't need any lame-ass tricks. ħuman 06:02, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Once again, Rob demonstrates his total lack of understanding of basic human dignity. Compassionate conservatism, folks! --Kels (talk) 23:10, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

I recall when Ken posted an article on ASK that said that China had a shortage of women and claimed that it said that China had a shortage of men. When I queried that, he simply reposted the article and claimed again that it said China had a shortage of men. Rob's comments here remind me of that time. How can you get someone who simply does not understand to understand? EddyP ^{Great King! Disaster!} 23:32, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Hell, Reynalds even got FOX & CNN to help out his fundrasing efforts nationwide:

• ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When he's not running his homeless shelter in Albuquerque, New Mexico, or his radio talk show, Jeremy Reynalds is on the Internet hunting al Qaeda. nobs^{don't bother me} 03:58, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

As an addition, why would we need to argue cases before the supreme court? We're not lawyers, that's not the measure of success we have. Trent and I (at least, I'm not sure of others, please add your names) are fairly successful scientists for the beginning of our careers with some credits like papers and presentations to our names. Yet where is Schlafly's paper in Science or Nature disproving relativity? Let me fetch the tumbleweed. ^narchist 12:34, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Hell, I may be a "Computer Scientist" and an undergrad, and I have 2 scientific papers published. And don't forget LX, Opcn, and Bertran!Тy^Talk. 13:29, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree wholeheartedly with Smithy here, Andy's very successful. I mean if you look at where he came from he's way more successful than anyone he went to university with. When was the last time you heard of anyone else from Andy's time at the Harvard Law Review being a household name? -- Iscariot ^{Andy Schlafly for Congress 2012!} 02:36, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

In case anyone missed Iscariot's sarcasm... ListenerX^TalkerX 01:40, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Rob Smith: Living proof that paint chips are delicious. --Kels (talk) 01:47, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

While funny, that's not funny... ħuman 02:18, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Rob was just pwned by Tmtoulouse. Rationalize (talk) 02:56, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

.... but... but the letter! The letter from Washington! IT WAS HEARTFELT! ^EXTERMINATE 03:23, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

See my comments below about the legality of the RatWiki beg-a-thon. DMorris2 (talk) 02:05, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

A Graphic Novel Idea

Okay, this came to me: A group of scientists invent a way to travel through time. Naturally, the get shit-faced to celebrate. While in such a state, the whole question about going back in time and killing Hitler comes up. One of the scientists (our hero), while still drunk, returns to the lab and uses the time machine to travel to Germany, 1938. Coming to his senses, he decides to go through with the killing of Hitler and returns home...

Only to find that the Nazis under new management won the war. Hitler became a martyr and WW2 was pushed back by a few years, allowing Nazi Germany to develop the atomic bomb and conquer the world. To make matters worse, a Nazi scientist developed time travel and went back to stop Hitler's assassination. However, a monologue our hero provided revealed to the Nazi scientist that Germany would have lost the war. Returning to the present, he finds our hero trying to steal the Nazi time machine to stop himself from killing Hitler. The Nazi scientists and some guards get caught up in the time warp, everyone landing a few months prior to our hero killing Hitler. Convinced Hitler must die, the future Nazis decided to either kill Hitler themselves or let the assassination take place. Our hero is then stuck trying to kill the future Nazis, protect Hitler, and stop himself in order to return the future to the way it was. It ends with him stopping himself and returning to his own future, traveling to the past one last time to sabotage the time travel experiment from ever happening.

Any thoughts?--Thanatos (talk) 00:52, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

As the guy who tends to resist willful suspension if disbelief in fiction, I think a plot hole exists in that who the hell would kill Hitler in '38? Kill him as a young kid, as it would be 1000x easier, and you don't have to worry about martyring him. Also, it seems every time a time travel movie is made some paradox gets mixed up in it. The Terminator movies are the worst, as they intentionally write them in it seems (the lousy Guy Pearse remake of The Time Machine is an exception to this rule, and about the only thing they did right with that movie was write in a way around this). An interesting idea, though, to be sure. DickTurpis (talk) 01:16, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

As long as it involves a DeLorean and a mad scientist, I'm in. ħuman 01:57, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Go for it, time travel paradoxes are always enjoyable because they allow for limitless mindfuckery. There's a novel by Stephen Fry that explores the idea that removing Hitler could've had adverse consequences as it wouldn't have eliminated the whole antidemocratic, antisemitic social current that carried him to power, and he might've been replaced by someone who's every bit as crazy but more competent. Röstigraben (talk) 09:19, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

If you are going to make yet another a timetravel movie/novel/whatnot, please study the philosophy of timetravel, pick a consistent philosophical position, and stick to it. I at least will appreciate that. Nothing drives me crazy like works of fiction whose authors lack a coherent philosophical position. (Back to the Future, I am talking to you; although at least your explorations of the oedipal complex never cease to fascinate me...) --(((Zack Martin)))^™ 09:38, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

I like the idea. Dick raises a good point, but it would be easy enough to write in some convenient explanation... perhaps the time machine can only take you back 73 years, for instance. However I still have questions... why, for instance, would the nazi scientist go back to stop the assassination of Hitler? If the nazis had conquered the world that wouldn't seem like a particularly pressing issue. Also, I'm confused about when the monologue takes place and when the nazi scientist hears it. ^{ONE / TALK} 11:04, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

The whole "killing Hitler" angle has been done to death (TVTropes warning). Also your idea reminds me a lot of this episode of Red Dwarf (allegedly based on a lost Gene Rodenbury Star Trek script rejected by Paramount). It's about assassinating JFK rather than Hitler, but you should watch it as it's pretty much the same premise as your graphic novel. Wéáśéĺóíď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 17:58, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

1) Drunk dialed on a time machine 2)Time travel should be a forbidden science 3)Nazi scientist only there because hero changed history. 4) Monologue is to calm his nerves about killing another human being. 5) I understand it's been done to death, but believe if I can create new angles (or well use existing ones) I can still tell my story.--Thanatos (talk) 18:10, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

You might be able to get away with the hitler story if you're just using it as a hook to hang something else on. Douglas adams co-wrote a script for Doctor Who that featured the equally corny "stealing the Mona Lisa" plotline - but he twisted the whole thing inside out and made it great. Totnesmartin (talk) 07:36, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

That was one of the best DW series. ħuman 04:19, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm sure drunk time travelling has plenty of cool new scope!! 17:41, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

You could have the scientist who discovered the time travel be someone really famous, like Albert Einstein, and then have some other, bigger issue crop up, like a resurgent Soviet Union conquering its way across Europe under the leadership and guidance of one of Stalin's mysterious advisers! Or, alternately, you could just go play Red Alert to get your fill of timebending Hitler murder and then think up an original plot! --The Emperor _{Kneel before Zod!} 23:08, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

MY other idea was an FBI agent investigating the murder of a far-right talkshow host on-air, only to discover it was the big business who funded thinly-disguised Glenn Beck because he and his followers became out of control.--Thanatos (talk) 03:47, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I just described Network, didn't I?--Thanatos (talk) 03:49, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

My variant would be to show up at the Vienna Academy of Fine Arts, around 1906, with a large bag of gold or equivalent, and tell the faculty that a professorship would be generously endowed if, when a young fellow named A. Hitler showed up, he would be admitted, and get all the special help needed to make him a very successful architect. Howard C. Berkowitz (talk) 05:53, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I would kill a number of birds with one stone by going to Trier, around September of 1817. ListenerX^TalkerX 06:06, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I would go back and shoot Kennedy to prevent World War 3. Totnesmartin (talk) 07:42, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I suggest reading Stephen Fry's wonderful "Making History" then deciding if you can add anything new to the trope. --PsyGremlinKhuluma! 10:21, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

trope? Did someone say "trope"? Totnesmartin (talk) 10:38, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I hate you so much right now. Or at least I will, when I finish with these tabs... *click* *click* *click* --PsyGremlinFale! 10:51, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

If we're looking for "who to kill to save the most lives", you could create a really interesting, and totally unexplored, alternate timeline by travelling back and killing Charles Martel to allow the Moors to conquer Europe, thus ending the Dark Ages and kicking forward Western history a good couple hundred years. --The Emperor _{Kneel before Zod!} 23:13, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

When I worked on the U.S. government's Y2K Information Center, we had signs saying the Dark Ages were caused by the Y1K problem. Howard C. Berkowitz (talk) 23:27, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Now we're getting into the plot of the Shin Getter Robo manga. Behold Getter Emperor, who outclasses the Borg by assimilating whole planet! The alien bugs went back in time to try and prevent its creation.--Thanatos (talk) 00:25, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Interesting point

Let's get philo... phillo... fillo... thoughtful for a minute. Here's the question: If Hitler never existed, would WW2 have happened? The conditions within Germany that led to the rise of Nazi party remain the same, Roehm's brownshirts were still around. The only difference would have been a slightly less effectual Nazi party, probably led by Gregor Strasser. However, I doubt Germany would have started the war. If anything, it would have pitted France & England against Russia's expansionist aims. Plus the Japanese attacks in the east would have gone ahead - maybe even in lock-step with the Russians. --PsyGremlinFale! 11:03, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

If the Japanese sided with the Russians, they probably could have taken out China no problem. Germany would have sided with England and co. America would probably still not have gotten involved until Pearl Harbor, but would have had more difficulty in the Pacific when Japan has closer allies. All of this saw thought the eyes of a successful painter named Adolf. (If Hitler had talent)--Thanatos (talk) 17:44, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Books about the history of the relationship b/t science and religion?

A friend of mine is looking for some. Recommendations? P-Foster (talk) 16:34, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Well there is

• History of the Conflict between Religion and Science by John William Draper
• Galileo Goes to Jail and Other Myths about Science and Religion edited by R.L.Numbers
• Some online lecture notes about History of the Relationship between Science & religion

Other than that he might try Harris and Hitchens.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.}

Looking at WP's entry on Random L. Numbers it seems that his books might be a good starting point.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 11:47, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Bummer

Just heard from UCAS that my application was unsuccessful. No info as to why it was unsuccessful of course, UCAS doesn't seem to be that communicative, so I guess I'll have to get in touch with the uni, find out the reasons for being turned down and whether it's worth reapplying next year.-- ^{Spirit of the Cherry Blossom} 19:37, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to hear that. Maybe turn up next time with tactical thermonuclear weapons? Or not... ħuman 08:15, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Wait, how does it work now? Don't you apply to three universities? Do you mean the universities turned you down or UCAS rejected your application in the first place? Crundy^{Talk nerdy to me} 08:21, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I just applied to the one university. I've been there before but was unable to finish the course because that's when I became disabled, and it's taken 16 years to get the diagnosis and meds right. Going back there to do a course makes sense, rather than somewhere new, because I already know the uni, the college and the city and, as a bonus, I already have records lodged with the CMHT up there, which would make it a lot easier to get treatment and wotnot transferred up. I've been in touch with the uni, asked them if they can give me feedback as to why I was turned down, and was told that the Foundation Centre found me a fairly strong candidate (translation, haven't been in work or education for the past five years so it's difficult to judge if I could complete the course, healthwise), but the app got turned down when it was passed onto the undergrad Chem department. Unfortunately the decision maker there isn't around this week, so I'm going have to wait till next week to find out why I was turned down, see if it's something that can be patched up for an application next year. If it's because of that gap in my record for the past five years then I could look at doing A-levels in Maths and Chem at the not-local collage for this year and then reapply next year, skipping the Foundation Course part. At least by doing and completing the courses I'd be able to show that I'm still capable of being educated.-- ^{Spirit of the Cherry Blossom} 14:45, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Did you contact the uni before/during your application to discuss the reasons for your previous withdrawal? Sometimes admissions tutors may just notice that an applicant was a previous student at the uni & didn't complete, so they'll be reluctant to consider you for entry again. If you can get in touch with somebody to discuss the situation, it may may help, or at least get some closure on the reasons why you were rejected. Wéáśéĺóíď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 19:42, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Didn't think to get in touch with the uni during the app to explain why I had left before. Still, with any luck I'll have some contact off the uni next week so I could discuss it then. Wait and see until then I think.-- ^{Spirit of the Cherry Blossom} 20:02, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

WebComic

I just found a (very NSFW) webcomic that I like, in case anybody's interested: Oglaf. It's basically a mixture of swords, sorcery and pr0n. It was already very good until I hit this one and laughed my ass off. Enjoy. –SuspectedReplicant retire me 22:32, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

I lol'd--Brxbrx (talk) 00:15, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Nice. In several different ways. ħuman 08:14, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I've been a long time fan. I love the way the jism has a life of it's own. Jack Hughes (talk) 12:03, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Of import

This. Blue (is useful) 02:32, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Might be nice to say why. Discussion of deletion policy, is what the primary color also known as #0000FF was promoting. ħuman 08:12, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Food hoarding

The frosted flakes are in my desk.

Well, it's started. My parents and brother have gone on Weight Watchers, meaning a house full of diet food. (Why hello, fat-free mayonnaise! Do you still taste terrible? Ah, yes, you indeed do. And Kashi, do you still taste like a pile of bark and twigs?)

While my parents are gracious enough to continue buying non-diet food for me, I have to hide it from them. (If you aren't aware of proper dieting etiquette: it's a dick move to eat the very foods they've had to give up in front of them—store and eat your sweets in your own room.)^{— Unsigned, by: Stabby the Misanthrope / talk / contribs}

While I don't keep food in them, I find that boxes of Star Wars cards make great hiding places for things. Тy^Talk. 02:52, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Your parents and brother are atheists and/or evolutionists, then, I take it? P-Foster (talk) 02:57, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

If you want to see food hoarding, you should have visited the house of a Minnesotan of the Greatest Generation, when they were still able to live in houses rather than nursing homes. They had entire shelves filled, floor to ceiling, with canned food, soup, stew, vegetables, you name it.

Kashi grows on you; I eat the stuff for breakfast. ListenerX^TalkerX 03:03, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I keep an entire 19 cubic foot chest freezer full of Tater Tots. If they discontinue the product I'm good for, oh, a week at least. Doctor Dark (talk) 03:07, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I have a bomb shelter full of baked beans...and shotguns, and gold bricks. You know, just in case they try to take me away to the FEMA concentration camps. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 03:56, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

It's entirely up to you of course but posting hi-res pictures of your bookshelf can give away a surprising amount of personal information.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 06:35, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

*shrugs* Only thing really personal in there are my high school yearbooks, and I'm fairly open about where I live. The most incriminating information is my taste in literature. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 07:09, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

The most incriminating information there is the EXIF data, and because your mobile phone is a Samsung Galaxy I9000 which also includes GPS data, that picture which you took at 19:21 tells me exactly in which house in NWGrandviewDR you live, just saying... Sen (talk) 08:01, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Really? Huh. Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 08:09, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Hey! I'm impressed! THAT's what I call stalking!--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 11:59, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Recent changes

Right now shows me this little face: ಠ_ಠ and a vast empty expanse of white. What gives? Totnesmartin (talk) 09:17, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Was that a little joke by user:Icewedge ?--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 12:02, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Canada Porn

It's truly amazing how many people search for Canada porn. Hope they're not disappointed! --Scream!! (talk) 15:01, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

(I should just add: it is SFW. Also 8 19 51 of you've looked so far!) --Scream!! (talk) 15:31, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Тy^Talk. 16:23, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Canada, after all, did formally define Gomorrahy. Howard C. Berkowitz (talk) 20:37, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I give up, help!

I've spent ages trying to find an old game I used to play when I was really young, but the problem is I remember next to nothing about it! Judging from the graphics I think it was an NES game rather than SNES, it was an overhead RPG, like the original Zelda games, and the people in the shops used to talk in laughably over-the-top old English (e.g. "Thy must smite thine enemies with thy sword" and all that bollocks). Does anyone have any idea what I'm thinking of? Crundy^{Talk nerdy to me} 12:10, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

On a side note, I found the cabal! Crundy^{Talk nerdy to me} 12:19, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

*SMACK!* Fool! There is no cabal! As for your question, it's ringing a huge bell with me, but all I can think of is King's Quest. No doubt some geek here will put you out of your misery. --PsyGremlinFale! 13:04, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Totally not enough info.. :p It could be Dragon Warrior.. How much like Zelda? Are you sure it was NES, or just that generation? Dungeon Explorer? Quaru^{ninja - You can't explain that!} 13:18, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Doesn't seem to be King's quest, looking at screenshots. Might be Dragon Warrior, as it looks similar. I'll have to have a look. Totally not enough info I know! That's what's bugging me. I played it for friggin ages, all the way through. You'd think the name would ring a bell. Literally the only thing I remember about it was something about a corridor in a castle towards the end which seemed to have some kind of poison gas in it that drains your energy quite quickly. But I must have got some kind of potion or amulet which made me immune to it to get to the end.

Although while searching I did come across Syndicate (SNES) which I also used to have. Looking back on it, it was a pretty fucked up game. Crundy^{Talk nerdy to me} 14:12, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, alright, doesn't seem to be Dragon Warrior. Maybe it was on the SNES then. I seem to remember that interaction with shops brought up a screenshot of the shop vendor. I also seem to remember that if you said you didn't want to buy anything they would say "Ah, just browsing then" or similar, because at the time I didn't know what the hell "browsing" was. Crundy^{Talk nerdy to me} 14:18, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Maybe: NES: Crystalis, Quest for Glory 4, or Time Lord - Refugee^{talk page} 19:25, 14 April 2011 (UTC) Or Nintendo64: Castlevania? Ninja Gaiden? and correction to above, sorry, I remembered wrong: I played the Quest for Glory 1 - 4 series on PC not Nintendo. - Refugee^{talk page} 19:50, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I've no ideas myself, but you could try to ask these fine pirates somehow (I assume their IRC is public, at least). They've got a gigantic forum thread along the lines of "I played a game 20 years ago and I can't find it now"...it's pretty handy. ~ Kupochama^[1][2] 20:30, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

The English translations of the first two Dragon Quest games (or Dragon Warrior as it was called in English back then, up until the eighth game) were in archaic English, so it's probably that. (I'm a huge fan of the series, which nowadays is translated into modern British English.) --GastonRabbit (talk) 00:04, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Possibly one of the Ultima games? Could you link to the screenshots? ATP (talk) 00:50, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I have been wanting to try one of those for awhile.--Thanatos (talk) 03:07, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I remember a fantasy themed platform game where you could go to bars & be asked "ale or mead?". According to the internet, it might be Wonder Boy in Monster Land, although the pics I've seen don't look like how I remember it. My favourite in-game shops were in Alex Kidd in Miracle World, where the shopkeeper would say "Welcome! Please buy the things that you like." So poetically inane. I wish shopkeepers said that in real life. Wěǎšěǐǒǐď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 21:07, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Another Tiddlywiki question for the mob...

Hey folks. Does anybody know of a way to link from a tiddler on one instance of Tiddlywiki (my Crown Colony West Indian wiki) to another (my 1960s Caribbean Radicalism wiki)? Many thanks. P-Foster (talk) 16:42, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I think you can do [[link|C:\Users\You\Documents....]] That is, use a hard link. sterile funeral director 01:34, 15 April 2011 (UTC) ADD: you might have to use file:\\\ before C: (that is [[link|file:\\\C:\Users\You\Documents....]]

Pmail Trent? I think you mean setting up interwiki links, like WP:anal sex? ħuman 05:57, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Sterile. Works. P-Foster (talk) 01:00, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

What has the world come to...

We live in a world in which this not only is a news story, but one they managed to get me to click the fucking link for. DickTurpis (talk) 00:28, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Back in the good old days, to get all over the news the jellybean had to resemble Jesus, or at least the Virgin Mary. ListenerX^TalkerX 01:26, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I'd pay 500 quid if they had a matching prince Bill jellybean. Then I'd eat them on wedding day bank holiday. --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 02:30, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

is obviously the Virgin Mary cause she wearing a shawl over her head. 69.95.240.141 (talk) 15:08, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Today's xkcd

Link. Are all of the listings supposed to be a reference to something else, or are some of them supposed to be just weird in their own right? I recognize a few (had to look up Pripyat). I imagine there are some video game references and such here that I don't get? DickTurpis (talk) 21:42, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

The hover text one is referencing the Death Star. --Eira ^{OMTG! _{The Goat be Praised.}} 21:46, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I think most of them are just weird... but towards the end are some references... I imagine the "tub full of blood" and "board games that play themselves" is a reference to something... or at least alluding to horror movies in general... (I don't watch them) --Eira ^{OMTG! _{The Goat be Praised.}} 21:49, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

No clue, really, but I think the last one is a reference to The Shining. And maybe the minotaur one is Pan's Labyrinth? Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 21:50, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I had the Minotaur one as just based on the Greek Myth. The Death Star one wasn't tough either. I was particularly wondering if the one bedroom in the other was supposed to be something, or just be a really fucking weird design for an apartment. And what are Klein stairs? DickTurpis (talk) 22:02, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Explained. P-Foster (talk) 22:09, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Wow, I can't believe there's a site called explainxkcd.com. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 22:18, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Same here, but never trust anything on the internet. Based on the walls shifting and "always been there" attributes the "minotaur" reference is more likely pointing to the book House of Leaves. ^Me!Sheesh!_Mine! 04:45, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Joseph Mercola just commented on a facebook note I had commented on

The real fucktard. I didn't realize it but I have been facebook friends with his long time partner ("friends" I know less than 30% of mine). Tell me, is there a polite way to call someone a murderous fraud? --Opcn (talk) 00:44, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

No, but "murderous fraud" should do. DickTurpis (talk) 00:51, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Atlas Shrugged THE MOVIE

I'm considering seeing the movie because I actually am rather curious how it's even possible to turn that behemoth into a film. And yes, I know full well going into it that doing so will be nothing more than me paying $10 to listen to propaganda penned by a fascist whore. But still, morbid curiosity will almost certainly get the better of me. So is anyone else considering going? --The Emperor _{Kneel before Zod!} 04:23, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Pardon me. Rand was not a fascist. About the only thing on which she and fascists would agree was that communism is bad, and perhaps not even that.

As to this film, as I have said before, I do not hold out much hope for it, since Gary Cooper is no longer alive to save it by sheer acting talent. ListenerX^TalkerX 04:28, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm more concerned by 'whore' now meaning 'a woman I don't like', but that's just me. A lot of people use 'fascism' informally to mean political views that demonize 'weakness'. Mei III (talk) 08:22, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

In all fairness, if we use the colloquial meaning of "whore", which according to Wikitionary is "a woman who is sexually promiscuous", then it absolutely applies to Ayn, who had repeated affairs with her disciples while married. --The Emperor _{Kneel before Zod!} 22:52, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't know what compelled them to set the film in the modern day, and yet keep it about trains and steel mills. They should have set it in the 1950's when it would have made sense. As such, I except the film to be god-awful (and the trailer supports my expectation). A shame, because I think it could have made a fantastic epic. For all my general dislike of libertarianism and of Ayn Rand herself, I enjoyed the book. ^{ONE / TALK} 09:00, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm currently reading the novel. Ignoring her politics (which I don't share) for a second, it simply has zero literary value. There are no real characters, only vehicles for ideologies, either in the form of autistic superhumans or ridiculous strawmen. There is no plot because there's no meaningful interaction between them, only momentary, reluctant association. The dialogues are unbelievably clunky, and according to the trailer, they seem to have found their way into the script verbatim. There's not an actor alive who could make them work, which might at least provide some unintentional humor. But I'd expect a movie to suffer from the exact same basic deficiency as the book, which is that she's written an unwieldy tome without any of the markings of literature when she should've written a pamphlet. Röstigraben (talk) 09:36, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, the characters are awfully written. Those that are meant to be likable are simply not, and those that aren't come across as bizarre evil villains. There is so much waffle in the way she describes things (and sex scenes) that I found my eyes sliding off the page repeatedly. I did enjoy the overall story though. ^{ONE / TALK} 12:26, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

I've never read it but I've always thought that "Atlas Shrugged" is a fantastic name for anything. It's a really good title! X Stickman (talk) 01:46, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Apparently, it's coming out in three parts? The only way they could tame the behemoth I guess. have seen the trailer and that's as far as I'm going. --PsyGremlinSiarad! 10:23, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

The trailer does try its best to make it look brilliant, but even then it kind of fails. Looks like they're trying to shoehorn big CG trains and action sequences into something that's just a straightforward courtroom drama. 16:22, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

That's the impressions I got - lots of very serious looking folk talking, intercut with trains. There's many things I'll be seeing before I watch Atlas, amongst them this, which just oozes awesomesauce. --PsyGremlinTal! 16:32, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘The whole setting it in the present thing is great. "I shall begin my plan for world domination by...monopolizing all the private lines running on Amtrak rail! Muahahahahahahahahaha!!!" Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 16:40, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I will utilize information duplication technology in order to re-arrange a bunch of my property into a free copy of it and I claim that this act is thoroughly objectivist. Sen (talk) 11:39, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

That was predictable^img. I wonder if LloydR bothered to watch it before adding it to the list? –SuspectedReplicant retire me 15:10, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

AS left me wanting to know more about copper mining. ħuman 01:55, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Beg-A-Thon

Not to troll, but do any of you realize that your little beg-a-thon is not only pathetic, but also illegal? Some of you should, because you should have received a letter from the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services by now. Anyone who solicits money like RatWiki is doing is required to register with all of the different states as a solicitor. Now I'm not just writing this to be bickering, and it's not just because I personally dislike this site that I have informed the department of you're unlawful soliciting, but actually because I am a consumer advocate and have a long history of informing them of dishonest business practices. How does the average Joe know what's being done with the money you're collecting? Don't give me some bullshit that it all goes towards the operation of this site; if a multimillionaire decided to give RatWiki a couple million dollars I highly doubt that this little operation out of Trent's basement could use all of it. And that's a quite plausible scenario, unless you're saying that all people who share your views are underachievers who can't figure out how to make money (and you would be lying because I do believe Richard Dawkins is far from poor). Legitimate solicitors register with the appropriate government agencies as required by law, and they disclose the statistics of how they deal with their donations. RatWiki does not do that. The Wikimedia Foundation registers with FDACS and similar organizations from other states as they are supposed to. So does the Heritage Foundation, Judicial Watch, the Republican National Senatorial Committee, and other conservative organizations. RatWiki needs to register as required, or it needs to stop soliciting from anybody in the entire world that stumbles across it on the internet. DMorris2 (talk) 01:58, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

without a lawyer present. ListenerX^TalkerX 02:12, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

tl;dr version: "Not to troll, but here's a long troll." --JeevesMkII ^{The gentleman's gentleman at the other site} 02:13, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Claiming expertise while stating materially false facts always makes you look intelligent. Registration requirements in all states have thresholds of income. Tmtoulouse (talk) 02:15, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

You're wrong on that one Trent; even very small organizations in my own town have to register. I really did report you and you should have gotten a warning packet by now. Instead of arguing, why don't you at least show a little interest in being legitimate? Don't you believe in transparency? DMorris2 (talk) 02:19, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

An the mounties and the FBI will be at my door any minute now....Tmtoulouse (talk) 02:25, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Say, what does that letter from the Florida government say? You holdin' out on us, Trent? --Kels (talk) 02:29, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict) ::::Oh please, if you think referencing the FBI incident will intimidate or offend me, you're wrong. Here I am just trying to bring you're attention to a potential violation of regulations and you're treating me like an average troll just because of my position at Conservapedia. Well, actually, you're not treating me like an average troll: you haven't gone into what you call an HCM yet. I'm a lurker here, I do see everything you write about CP. Think of it this way: I read RatWiki for apparently the same reason you read Conservapedia; I come here to laugh at (not with) your bullshit slander and insults, and to laugh at how you react to morons like MC. DMorris2 (talk) 02:33, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

ListenerX^TalkerX 02:34, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Please do actually take the time to read that Don't feed the troll article you're linking to ListenerX; you're doing something it specifically says not to do. That's actually a good article, I'll give you that, but it's a shame it's part of RatWiki and not a more respectable website, in my opinion. DMorris2 (talk) 02:37, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Just to highlight the part of that article I'm talking about, in case your atheist pea-brain can't figure it out, I'm talking about this part: It is, of course an improper argumentum ad hominem (personal attack), when you accuse a user of being a troll just because you don't like what they are saying or the way they are saying it. Don't accuse someone of being a troll just to dismiss their argument. Just because you disagree doesn't necessarily mean the user is trying to be disruptive, so it is necessary to measure the suspected troll against the description given above. DMorris2 (talk) 02:39, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

ListenerX isn't an atheist. Тy^Talk. 02:41, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I thought he was a communist? Radioactive afikomen ^{Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments.} 02:50, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

So basically, this is MC without the overwrought style? --Kels (talk) 02:44, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I haven't a clue. Seems more like some final act of desperation. Тy^Talk. 02:45, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Basically, I guess you could consider me kind of a cross between nobs and MC, as far as my activities here go. But I don't see how what I'm doing could be considered trolling; I'm just wasting a little time trying to engage in an intelligent discussion. As I expected, I didn't get an intelligent response. DMorris2 (talk) 02:49, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

The intelligent responce is that even if there was something in this apart from immature conservative revenge fantasies in a ha-ha-I-hurt-you sort of way, then someone would simply get a letter, read the letter, act by the letter in the able time given in such law matters and continue business as usual. I believe the capitalist expression for such matters is "sweating the small shit". Sen (talk) 10:29, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Nice job making a stink over here- truly advanced parody work. Maybe you'll get oversight rights now! ATP (talk) 03:25, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Allow me to pull a Karajou and insist that you sue us for all sorts of transgressions. Anything less will certainly result with you being banned from this site forever. DickTurpis (talk) 03:32, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Ooh wait.. Karaje... Karajou parody! Hang on.

No, DMorris, this is what you're going to do. You will personally visit - I don't care if you go by plane or hitch-hike - every State's Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services and obtain a copy of their regulations. Then and only then can you say RW is breaking the law. In addition, you WILL go to your police station and obtain a case number, you WILL have to hire a lawyer and you WILL have to explain your case in front of a judge. Of course, you won't do this and thus prove me right again.

Wow, it's kinda fun to act like a complete jerk now and again. --PsyGremlinSermā! 05:42, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

"and it's not just because I personally dislike this site that I have informed the department of you're^[sic] unlawful soliciting" The entity known as Terry Koeckritz (currently suffering from terminal existence failure) got a two year break from this site for making legal threats. I shall await the will of the mob to decide whether or not you get the same treatment. Also, learn the fucking difference between your and you're, raping my beautiful language annoys me. -- Iscariot ^{Andy Schlafly for Congress 2012!} 16:47, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Bringing this back on topic

"a letter from the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services by now." I don't get it. Does every non-profit on the WORLD Wide Web have to register with one state in one country? Should we check with every Canadian province and every district in Tanzania as well, to see what their laws are? P-Foster (talk) 03:16, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

The idea behind it is that if you are specifically soliciting donations from residents of a given state you must register there. No matter where you are based, if you send out a mass mailing or fax to Florida you need to register there. The internet, as with most things, complicates matters. States that require registration have clauses that work off the idea of "substantial amount" or "substantial number." If a given organization is receiving donations greater than some threshold amount from that state they must register there. Or if some number of individuals from that state donate to an organization. RationalWiki receives neither substantial amounts, nor substantial numbers of donations from any state. Nor do we do any direct marketing anywhere. Tmtoulouse (talk) 03:20, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

So every website with a "donate" button -- ie a lot of them -- doesn't need to be crapping its pants in fear that Florida will send some pelicans over to rough them up. good. P-Foster (talk) 03:23, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, That was an entertaining few minutes. --Scream!! (talk) 04:07, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh no. I've already sent the papers off the Florida in respect of my little site. I mean I'm based in Spain and my site is hosted in the UK but I thought my donate button meant that I had to specifically register in Florida or I could be extradited to the US. Now it seems I was wasting my time.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 05:43, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

My Audi site has made me about $80 over 15 years in donations via PayPal. You'd think PayPal would be on top of this scam I'm running! Oh, and humanthoughts.org has gained at least $30 over ten years. That said, DMoron, RW is incorporated and posts occasional but timely financial reports and stuff... but then there's "without a lawyer present" so take my comments with a lump of salt and I do not speak for the RWF when I post here... ħuman 05:55, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

RationalWiki is neither a telemarketing organisation nor a charity. As far as I can determine from the DACS website there is no requirement for non-profit organisations like political groups to register. In fact the DACS site FAQ says:

Do all fund-raising organizations have to register with the state?

No. The Florida Solicitation of Contributions Act does not apply to bona fide religious or educational institutions, government agencies or political groups. These groups do not file with the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services.

 Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 06:38, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Ah. Well I'm none of them. Does that mean I have to register? Somebody in Florida could conceivably read my wiki and I'm worried about the possibility of extraordinary rendition to the US.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 10:24, 15 April 2011 (UTC)--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 10:24, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Lily, we aren't a non-profit. We just don't make a profit. There is a difference. Oh, that reminds me... ħuman 08:57, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Well according to this we are a non-profit organisation although I think that the correct term nowadays is "not for profit".  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 13:24, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

This has got to be the least convincing bit of trolling since some moron made that post on CP that told they their use if CheckUser violated the Terms and Conditions of the MediaWiki software and that their license to use it was going to be revoked. –SuspectedReplicant retire me 08:36, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I posted this mainly to see if you intended to abide by them. The difference between RW and a lot of sites with a donate button is that RW pretends to be some kind of "foundation" that is registered with the IRS and everything, but there is no indication online that it is registered as a solicitor with anybody. It should at least be registered in New Mexico seeing how it is apparently incorporated there. Deny that and lose all credibility. DMorris2 (talk) 13:30, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

"Deny that and lose all credibility." Classic. DickTurpis (talk) 13:32, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Here's a question - if we're a joke site, blah, blah, blah, why do you care so much? Or is being a tattle-tale how you get your jollies? --PsyGremlinKhuluma! 13:36, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps DMoron would like to donate enough to bring RW over that threshold so that he has a legitimate point? 13:58, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

What the fuck is wrong with you guys? DMorris2, I appreciated it. Occasionaluse (talk) 15:39, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

What the actual law says

Sec. 21a-190d. Charitable organizations exempted from registration and financial disclosure requirements. The following charitable organizations shall not be subject to the provisions of sections 21a-190b and 21a-190c, provided each such organization shall submit such information as the department may require to substantiate an exemption under this section:

(6) Any charitable organization which normally receives less than fifty thousand dollars in contributions annually, provided such organization does not compensate any person primarily to conduct solicitations.

Supplied by: --Eira ^{OMTG! _{The Goat be Praised.}} 18:16, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Before anyone claims that RationalWiki isn't a "charitable organization", the law defines that term sufficient to qualify RW:

Sec. 21a-190a. Solicitation of charitable funds: Definitions. As used in sections 21a-190a to 21a-190l, inclusive:

(1) "Charitable organization" means any person who is or holds himself out to be established for any benevolent, educational, philanthropic, humane, scientific, patriotic, social welfare or advocacy, public health, environmental conservation, civic or eleemosynary purpose, or for the benefit of law enforcement officers, firefighters or other persons who protect the public safety.

Supplied by: --Eira ^{OMTG! _{The Goat be Praised.}} 18:33, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Are you sure about defining RW as a charitable organisation rather than just a NPO? It seems like there would be a lot more legal & administrative implications in going down that road. Don't let's get manipulated into making unsound statements about what RW is or does as a legal entity. If you're serious about playing the charity card, I suggest consulting RW Foundation board members. ωεαşεζøίɗ^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 21:21, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

This fitting of the definition does not require us to define ourselves as a charitable organization by our definitions, or anyone else's definitions. It doesn't even require us to formalize it in any way, or file any forms or have any greater legal or administrative overhead or implications. We flatly fit the definition for the purposes of that particular act. They could use the word "hoobaloo gobbledeegack" instead of "charitable organization" for the purpose of the act, and it would be equivalent to what it says now. --Eira ^{OMTG! _{The Goat be Praised.}} 21:41, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

They might just as well have done, since the definition you quoted is broad enough to cover pretty much any activity. Nevertheless phrases like "charitable organization" shouldn't be tossed around lightly, & a strategy of defining ourselves as one thing in respect of one law & something else in respect of other laws is not one which I think it wise to follow without consultation. Wēāŝēīōīď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 22:19, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

First, we are not defining ourselves any differently. But with respect to this specific law we qualify under their definition. It doesn't matter what we call ourselves. It's their definition in their jurisdiction. And we can't just avoid the issue of multiple definitions, because Florida is the defining party here, and again, it doesn't matter what we call ourselves.

Next, the definition is broad enough to cover anything that is even remotely related to collecting charitable donations, Florida wants to regulate everyone collecting donations under circumstances that are even remotely similar to charitable donations. (Probably to protect citizens from fraud.) In order to cover anything even remotely similar to charitable donations, they made a broad definition. --Eira ^{OMTG! _{The Goat be Praised.}} 22:56, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

She's right, you know. She's good at this pedantic shit. Also, PS, she's on the board. I think they are just trying to regulate telemarketers and the like. ħuman 01:53, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Encyclopedia Dramatica

Anybody know what happened to the old ED? For the past 24 hours there has been nothing but an ohinternet page. Revan (talk) 03:22, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Who cares? Someone forgot to pay the gas bill? ħuman 05:47, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

They forgot to file with the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services. let this be a warning to us all. Totnesmartin (talk) 07:43, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

–SuspectedReplicant retire me 08:34, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Good one Martin!--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 10:18, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Sherrod Degrippo, founder and owner of ED, decided she could make more money raping my favorite site and turning it into this sanitized, bourgeois knowyourmeme clone [3]. RW is my new favorite site. Fuck you, girlvinyl/Degrippo. I hope your miserable site plunges into the the pile of raw sewage it sprung from.

Seriously, all the articles are gone, including the ones I wrote and contributed too. The new articles lack any lulz. THis is Degrippo trying to make more money by getting more advertisers.--Brxbrx (talk) 10:26, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

It's a sign of the times - ED was probably a drain on resources, and really - what purpose did it serve? Besides trolling internet trolls. It was a business decision, pure and simple. Uncyclopaedia is there to fill ED's hole. --PsyGremlinSpeak! 10:35, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

you said that just to piss me off, didn't you?--Brxbrx (talk) 10:37, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

c'est moi? --PsyGremlin講話 11:12, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Forum:Is ED Funny. Even though the answer is self-evidently "no". –SuspectedReplicant retire me 10:41, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

This reinforces my pet theory that websites are basically tyrannies. One press of a button and the owner(s) can pull the plug, change everything, whatever Totnesmartin (talk) 12:56, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

That's not so much a theory as a straightfoward fact. Websites are property, like my notebook. I can let people write on it but it's still mine, it is subject to my whims and my whims alone ^{ONE / TALK} 13:01, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I called it a theory because I was kind of hoping it wasn't true. Totnesmartin (talk) 13:15, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Have you hugged your Trent today? --PsyGremlinSpeak! 13:38, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

ED was just "if it isn't vile and hateful it isn't funny". Would it actually be missed in the long run?? 13:52, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Hell, I acted as if it didn't exist already, so this is just confirmation. --Kels (talk) 14:00, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Article about it all DMorris2 (talk) 15:25, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

ED was a very strange place. Some of the content was hilarious, all of the editors were fucking weirdos...I'm a weird troll, but damn. And Uncyclopedia just isn't funny. Occasionaluse (talk) 15:38, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Indeed it was a strange place. Revan (talk) 16:06, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

ED was more puerile than it was actually racist, sexist, homophobic, or most other buzz words you might feel like slinging at it. Bad taste is fucking funny when done right. Granted, ED editors were often lazy and just got it wrong, but I defy anyone to read down sickipedia's most popular jokes and not crack a grin (do not do this from work). Uncyclopedia is awful. Endless mock quotes do not a funny make. Webbtje (talk) 19:56, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

new hope

some hero among us is dosing the new BS sellout site! While this won't change much, it sure feels good.--Brxbrx (talk) 22:54, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Man, heroes are pretty cheap these days. Stand up and demand your right to be stupid, offensive and unfunny! --Kels (talk) 23:02, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

ooh, you're so sophisticated and refined. Don't fucking judge me, alright. You have your laffs, I have my lulz.--Brxbrx (talk) 23:08, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

And your racism. And your sexism. --Kels (talk) 14:27, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

A New Hope is awesome. It's probably my favourite Star Wars film. But then Empire and Return have Lando Calrissian. Oooooh, it's so hard to make an informed decision! SJ ^Debaser 14:42, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

my racism and my sexism?--Brxbrx (talk) 15:19, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

ED = racism and sexism is funny. Therefore if you "want lulz" you are, by extension, a racists and a sexist. Not to mention quite a homophobe for the amount of times ED called everything in the world "fag". If you want to have that sort of "lulz", start your own blog, under your real name, and post it there. 15:33, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Crap, I forgot the homophobia. All integral parts of the "lulz", ED-style. Well, that and character assassination/bullying of small-scale drama queens. Can't really imagine why you'd want it back. --Kels (talk) 15:35, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

ED is satire, silly. Don't take it so personally. ED makes fun of all genders, ethnicities, and religions. ED also makes fun of atheists! btw, archive project here: http://encyclopediadramatica.ch/Main_Page--Brxbrx (talk) 16:04, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

FYP. 16:07, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

On the other hand, it might be worth adding RW's page before someone copies in the awesomely accurate, supportive and positive article ED had on it!! 16:09, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Daily dose of cute

Now let me hear you all go "Squeeeeee!" --PsyGremlinSnakk! 16:01, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Squick. It's hideous!Тy^Talk. 16:06, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Is that one of those monkeys that clamber into people's orifices while they're sleeping & then live in their guts like a tapeworm? Wēāŝēīōīď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 20:48, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Which gives a whole new meaning to "Squeeeeee!" Mr Vole-person. --PsyGremlinRunāt! 21:01, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Your penis has a thumbnail growing on it, and what appears to be an infection of mold and worms. I'd say, "pass the bleach". ħuman 01:45, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Humanist "Bible"

The ideas expressed in the review might be more interesting than the book itself, though. P-Foster (talk) 14:00, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Mentioned it t'other day--Scream!! (talk) 14:12, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

That's exactly how SusanG would have put it. Just saying... ħuman 01:42, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Beat you both. It's WIGO:World 3408 - from 4 April. –SuspectedReplicant retire me 14:19, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Eggsellent 1upmanship, SR. --Scream!! (talk) 14:23, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Wouldn't that be 2upmanship in this case? ;) –SuspectedReplicant retire me 14:54, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I'll up your man-ship, buddy. P-Foster (talk) 14:59, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

You've always floated my boat, big boy. –SuspectedReplicant retire me 15:08, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

For those who have been wondering

A few of you have been a bit curious about what I do at that school of mine, so here's an example. Not one of my drawing projects, but it uses a lot of the same principles. Animated using Toon Boom Harmony with a sound clip from the film Bell, Book & Candle retrieved from The 11 Second Club. --Kels (talk) 16:03, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

 

Honest Awe!! How many hours days weeks did that take? --Scream!! (talk) 16:16, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

About four, although I had a lot of other stuff to do in that time too, plus a week where I was sick. --Kels (talk) 16:17, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Cool. I wish I could do stuff like that. 16:35, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

So did I, a few months ago. =D --Kels (talk) 16:40, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Sweet. Casting Jimmy Stewart as Frankenstein's Monster. I like it. Wēāŝēīōīď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 21:25, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

For my summer hand-drawn project, I'm hoping to cast Kirk Douglas as a fat guy. --Kels (talk) 23:03, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Make sure you post it here when you're done. Wëäŝëïöïď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 15:11, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Assuming it turns out well, sure. --Kels (talk) 15:14, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Elderly, Moi!!

I just read our local council's "news" and found myself referred to: "We also had an elderly gentleman named Roger, whom we had met previously on our health walk around Sandhill." This has come as a considerable shock to me, as I've never thought of myself as "elderly" (I'm 67) I'm still in my 30s in my head - old age gallops on! --Scream!! (talk) 20:52, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I can't say I've ever heard a speaker older than 14 call someone your age "elderly". --Kels (talk) 21:15, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I know what you mean! On a recent holiday, hubby & I lined up to buy tickets for an attraction. Ticket seller looked at us & said 'pensioner discount?'. I was torn. Get all huffy & pay full price, or bite my tongue & get in cheap. The latter won. RagTop^{Gone sailing} 23:02, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Next David Cameron will be saying how he talked to you the other day. 23:32, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

My dad nearly blew his top when we went to the camping store together and the cashier remarked "It is so nice that you are going camping with your grandson." Тy^Talk. 02:15, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

In accordance with evolving deletions policy

I have slapped a delete tag here. Debate a way. I would hate to delete this masterpiece in a hasty manner and incur the wrath of the mob. P-Foster (talk) 22:01, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

The mob is mildly developmentally delayed, poor dears. We'll just take care of this for them. Nutty Roux (talk) 22:05, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

It's a parody of CPs shitload of Liberal this and that articles. 173.233.68.2 (talk) 22:34, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I deleted it because I remembered that someone gave me Sysop powers (rights? whatever) which makes me capable of doing such things. Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair! Doctor Dark (talk) 00:59, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Aw, I liked that cheerleader! ħuman 05:49, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Dont worry Human the resident cheerleader didnt do that. That cheerleader hasnt reverted back to trolling. <3 Ex-Troll Cheerleader^{I'm a teenage girl; get ALLstate to protect yourself from Mayhem like me} 00:39, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

LEND ME THINE EYEBALLS! (Long)

I *do* actually have an account, but I made it like three years ago and am presently too lazy to retrieve it. I'm the one who was biznatchin' about My Life Is Bro. I'm fully aware that y'all are not my panel of therapists, but I need relationship advice that will calm me down. Even if you can only find the most negative in my anecdote, please just tell me the good stuff.

So there's this fellow, whom I'd bet money I'm in lurve with. However, we're filled with SUCH turbulance. Please bear in mind as you read this, we're both at a tender age. Hint: We can't vote in the U.S. yet. I met Boy in Spring '09. He had moved here from about three hours ago. I heard so much to the effect of "OmG TeH NEW BOY IZ SO HAWT LIKE" from my peers. I didn't believe it. The group he ran with ranked high on my list of people who exasperate the holy hell out of me. I saw him, I remember thinking I could name about 100 hotter people. How foolish I was.

I actually struck up a conversation with the boy. I was SHOCKED to find out he was the sweetest thing. And he was pretty hot, but I still didn't want to admit it. I didn't think much of him, actually. Not for two months, at least.

So summer vacation was over and the guy I was pursuing at the time was no longer available. Nbd. I resolved I was through with relationships for now. I'd focus on personal improvement. Now, I'm not lying when I say I'm the luckiest person ever. Improbable, wonderous things always happen to me. None so wonderous as getting a class with Boy. It was mostly composed of his dudebro friends, who thought me odd. (Note:I'm not unpopular by any means, but I'm far beneath the League of Preppy Asses) We started talking more and more. He was funny & sweet.He would always say "DON'T YOU DARE THROW PENS AT MY GIRL" or make a grandiose claim that I was his best friend. Things got more and more heated.

I recall some incidences where I was wearing a low cut shirt, and he was messing around with a pen. It bounced off my chest and fell to the floor. He asked me, "DId that go down your shirt?" I said no. He said, "Well, pull it away from you. I want to see if I can make it in." all the while eyeballing me. Same day I think, he stuck the pen down the back of his pants and said "No one's looking. Get your pen" I was tempted, but his FUCKING DUDEBRO FRIENDS RUINED MY SEXY TIME. I had a habit of staring at DAT ASS. A friend noticed and said "Dude, she's checking out your butt." Boy whips his head around and says "Would you like to see the other side?" I agree. Then, a little chorus of DB's says "DUDE WHY ARE YOU TALKING TO HER SHE'LL THINK YOU LIKE HER" After this, he stopped talking to me. He'd make little snide comments to me with his friends. Misery ensued for about two weeks.

Suddenly, an angel appeared in the form of pandemic disease. Swine Flu was scaring the shit out of people. Our peers were all ill, staying at home because it might be the porcine devil. About 5 people in our class that day, including me and Boy. He had slowly warmed back up to me. He said "Could I PLEASE sit behind you?" I agree, not thinking any of it. He put is foot in my lap. He whispers to me, "I saw you looking at my dick earlier." My cervix weeps with joy. He says "Do you want it?" I say yes.There's some amatuer boob groping. Later that day, he asked for my number. I was thrilled. We kept talking about the day's blessed incident. His naievty shines through, especially with the cutest line ever "So do you want my thing?"

Things go well. They start snowballing, until we started full-on sexting. I was so happy. Liking him so much, so excited for our indecent plans. But he's getting closer to the DB's. He's getting closer to to the ignorant cheerleaders that chill with the DB's. He started going out with a popular one with no warning. Now, I've been through some bad stuff, but that was one of the worsr days of my life.

A few cold months of me going after a rebound, cursing Boy's name whenever I could, swearing I hated that bitch. I was lying to myself. I constantly fantasized about how it'd be if he stayed with me. I tried so hard to get over him. It can't be done. Later, he began flirting with me, as was in the days of old. He finally just came over and started meowing and petting my thigh. (Is it not obvious why I love him?) I cop a feel, he cops a feel, his girlfriend has no clue. I don't believe those two ever hung out alone.

We proceed to full on phone sex. Adultery's just the greatest thing in the world. But there's talk of him moving back. I'm crushed. I asked him on the phone. He just said he didn't know. I later found out he did know he was leaving, but he would never talk about if infront of me. HE was so sweet. He'd pet my feet, hold my hand, compliment me. It didn't last long enough.

He broke up with the cheerleader, and verbally berated me over a text for being obscene and to never speak to him again. I later found out he either showed someone a text or they found it. Things got more normal, he started being sweet again. Until one day, he started referring to me as "It." "Someone must have told it I liked it." "It's obsessed with me when it knows I HATE IT!". To top it all of he called me a bitch to my face. This was the day before he lefy. I found incriminating pictures on Facebook of him and ANOTHER CHEERLEADER. he day after he left, he said "It's so good to have moved....away from *my name*! HAHAHAHA!" on Facebook. My friends verbally abuse him. He deletes the status. I try and fail to get over him.

I broke down and texted him I missed him. I'm so glad I did. This was in April of '10. By that time, I decided I love him. I hold firm to that conclusion. In July, he called me, sounding very aplogetic. We have more phonsex. He promises he'll call me tommorow. He's famous for NEVER. TEXTING. ANYONE. BACK. He's hyper with two brothers and an overprotective mom and always has a sporting event. It's understandable, yet painful for me.

Then I hear from him again IN OCTOBER. He's heartbreakingly sweet. He tells me how he wants me to be friends with his friends from where he lives, how goregous I am, all this great stuff. I hear from him sporadically, even texting me on Halloween. Then in December, he tells me "You better not be talking to other guys. You're my lady." and "I bet you look goregous right now" and other asorted sweetness. A little earlier, he was making fun of me with the DB's on Facebook. He can only be sweet if we're alone.

I text him in Febuary. He asks, "Who's this?" I tell him. No reply (But to be fair, he was a t a track meet). He calls twice a day later. I was sleeping, tried to return his calls, and at the time of writing, haven't heard from him. Not unusual. Just yesterday, two DB's were talking about him. I demand to know what about. I don't get anything, so I disclose my whole history with him. I get "YOU'RE LYING IF HE LIKED YOU HE'D CALL YOU EVERYDAY HE'LL GET A NEW GIRLFRIEND Y'AL WILL NEVER DATE." This DB's a sweetie. Very close to him. Which worries me, as she has nothing against me like the others do.

Thoughts? Facts? Opinions? Advice? ^{— Unsigned, by: 70.254.39.15 / talk / contribs}

I believe the phrase kids use these days is "tl;dr". From the skimming I did it seems to be an overload of teen drama. But I'll give you the advice I give everyone: Nothing matters. Move along. DickTurpis (talk) 18:09, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

What he said. --Scream!! (talk) 18:12, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, I'm aware I'm fishing in the wrong pond, and it is a teal deer, and I wouldn't even care if it wasn't me, but I say: Why the hell not?70.254.39.15 (talk) 18:16, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I've had to tell this to my friend before - she never listened until she realized she'd wasted three years of her life. If he's a douchebag all the time but when he's with you he's sweet, he's not "showing you his true side." He's just a douchebag who wants to get down your pants. Thunderkatz^Ho! 18:23, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I considered the possibility. He was sweet to everyone until he got mixed in with the ruffians. He's gotten sweeter since he's away from him. There are LOADS of girlfolk who'd die to fuck him. If he was just in it for the schex, he'd have found a more well-endowed girl with less emotional baggage. Recently, he's started apologizing for minute things.70.254.39.15 (talk) 18:27, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

At your age it's definitely not love, it's hormones. He's not sweet, he's a philandering dick. If you want to make out with him then that's your choice but it won't last and you'll feel used. Expect to be laughed at and gossiped about but that's all part of growing up. The really sweet guys are not usually the best lookers but they'll try harder and be more faithful in the long run. Other than that it's as Turp said, just make sure that you don't sweat the little things.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 18:35, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I feel like I should point out Ace McWicked. Blue (is useful) 18:39, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Q_Q Тy^Talk. 19:22, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

The main thing that drew me to him was how sweet he was. To everyone. Even the unpopular kids. We talk about things other than sex most often, and he'd always cheer me up without using his penis when I was sad. I'll say it again: If it was for sex he'd have found someone else.70.254.39.15 (talk) 18:42, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Finishing high school a few years ago, I'm recent to this teen drama. I was never involved in it myself (I had a girlfriend and we got on fine til she dumped me about 2 years ago because I was too great all the time at literally everything), but obviously I knew people who loved being the centre of attention had really important deep relationship problems when they were sixteen. Here's some advice which you'll pay no attention to I'm sure you'll heed because that's why you've come here, and not to attention whore; the guy sounds like an absolute waste of space that just wants to fuck you. Cut him off like a diseased limb, tell him where to go and make no mistake. If you've wasted two years of your life over him, you don't wanna waste another two. Regards, SJ ^Debaser 18:51, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I find this conversation fascinating. Ed Poor (talk)

Well, my theory is that he likes me but is deeply ashamed because I'm not friends with his friends (and that does make him a douche, but not to that extent.) It went great until the friends disapproved. I'm willing to work around that though. You people can all be pragmatic and such; I'll be a stubborn ass for the rest of my life about this. If he doesn't come around, I'll come back and everyone can point and laugh.70.254.39.15 (talk) 18:58, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

AND OH MY GOD HI ED POOR70.254.39.15 (talk) 19:00, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I'd say he's either an absolute dick, or a really weak-willed guy who's generally friendly towards people but will go with the tide - if his friends start slagging you off, he will too. I'd ignore him - there's too many instances of him being an utter dick towards you for no reason (unless you're omitting stuff) above. EddyP ^{Great King! Disaster!} 19:11, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

He's weak-willed. Always said he hated tobbaco, then his friends started using it. He tried it and threw up everywhere. I say this because his principles do not matter at all when with his friends. Can't ignore him--have tried.70.254.39.15 (talk) 19:17, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Have you tried lighting him on fire? DickTurpis (talk) 19:21, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Does violent shoving and clawing him in the face count? I like him alive.70.254.39.15 (talk) 19:23, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough. When you can't do one thing sometimes it makes sense to try to exact opposite. Lighting someone on fire is about as far from ignoring him as I could imagine. But, you're right, it probably isn't a good idea. It is still a misdemeanor in most states to murder a douchebag. DickTurpis (talk) 19:49, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

I say, punish the motherfucker. I'll show him love, but he must first be punished. Mmmmm, discipline.70.254.39.15 (talk) 19:52, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Babe, this has "unhealthy relationship" written all over it. Cut and run. DickTurpis (talk) 19:54, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Agree with Turpis. Тy^Talk. 19:22, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

I honestly think he's just being a teenager and he'll wise up later. He's just 16. A little bit of stupidity is to be expected. And I'm not like, suicidal over these tribulations. It's just....rather like absolute joy mixed with chronic back pain.70.254.39.15 (talk) 19:58, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

There are enough nice guys out there that you don't have to settle for someone who's only a jerk half the time.--^talk 12:59, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

I really don't mind the jerk half if I can get the amazing half.64.217.183.231 (talk) 16:57, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

There's really no point in anyone replying to this because you don't appear to be heeding a single word that anyone says.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 08:34, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes. It seems like your post boils down to "I like this guy but also, he's a jerk" and now that everyone has given you advice, you're saying "but I'm willing to put up with that". So I'm confused about what exactly you're intending to gain from this discussion. ^{ONE / TALK} 13:38, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Cat in the hat?

I found this news story disturbing and sickening - a Lady Gaga fan has killed and mutilated a pet cat for a blood costume. Pop culture fans are an obsessed bunch but this is taking it to a new level :/ Revan (talk) 12:25, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

It's sad the woman has mental problems and threatened someone with glass, but she didn't torture the cat - she just killed it so she could use its body parts for her costume. This should not be weird in a culture that wears leather and eats meat.--^talk 12:55, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes. Blue (is useful) 03:33, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

I think that's a bit disingenuous - it is weird because cats are not usually harvested for anything, and are instead seen as animals for companionship. However I agree with your implication that it's hypocritical to be outraged or disgusted by it when we do harvest other animals for fur. ^{ONE / TALK} 09:40, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

It is weird, just like someone killing and wearing anything that is unusual. But it isn't "disturbing and sickening" in that respect, and it shouldn't be.--^talk 22:37, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

The cat'll be fine, it has eight more lives. Barump-bump-psshhhh! SJ ^Debaser 13:22, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Lady Gaga kinda scare me and now I am afraid of her fans. Seriously, where the fuck does she get her "clothing"?--Thanatos (talk) 01:47, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

The dressup box. She is in fact a four-year-old who has put on the ENTIRE dressup box. - David Gerard (talk) 12:21, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Spring break

For me starts in 3 1/2 hours. Anybody got any plans, or are you all next week? Тy^Talk. 13:40, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

You mean Resurrection Sunday Holy Day? ^{ONE / TALK} 14:20, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

My college has a break in February for a week, and then the term ends on the 30th. These next two weeks are craziness, getting stuff done. --Kels (talk) 15:55, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Camping & taking the boat out one last time.Тy^Talk. 15:57, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm about to take a three week holiday around Hong Kong, Malaysia & Singapore. Not really anything to do with Spring Break as such, just a good time of year for me to do this, + take advantage of a few UK bank holidays & avoid having to pretend to be interested in the royal family. Unfortunately I'll also miss voting about voting, but you can't have everything. Looking forward to the trip but also stressed as I still have a bunch of things to organise or book & only a few left to do it in. Wèàšèìòìď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 20:55, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Don't you have what we call "absentee voting" here in the New World? ħuman 01:46, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, but you have to apply in advance. Ron Weasley appears to have left it too late.  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 07:19, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

You could apply for a postal vote up until 5pm on Thursday 14 April, but you can still apply for a proxy up until 5pm on 21 April. Four days left. –SuspectedReplicant retire me 07:23, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

I would have done the postal voting thing, but when I looked into it I found that postal ballot papers are only sent out about a week before election day (when I won't be here) & have to be returned by election day (still won't be here). I don't have an immediate choice for proxy but might ask around, although I have tons of other stuff to sort out this week so will probably end up letting it go. ΨΣΔξΣΓΩΙÐ^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 15:05, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

When I was in school, spring break was the time you used to get caught up on the important schoolwork/research, since classes were safely on hiatus. ListenerX^TalkerX 07:27, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Wéáśéĺóíď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 15:05, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

I do something similer, I take schoolwork with me on vacation. Тy^Talk. 19:46, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

I'll probably have someone on my table as usual. Are you in high school or college?

College. Тy^Talk. 03:43, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I guess my uni is a bit odd, since we had our spring break at the beginning of March, and now we have a few days off for Easter. I spent mine in London, northern England, and various places around Scotland. Quite a good time, considering it was my first visit to the British Isles. άλφα^Talk 17:51, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Patrick Stewart and Assisted Suicide

So Jean Luc Picard has come out in favour of assisted suicide. Does anybody else imagine this could be done by him saying "Put on this red shirt and come with me"? –SuspectedReplicant retire me 11:58, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

On Picard's Enterprise, red denoted officer rank, so he was a redshirt. Mind you, he didn't have nearly the fatality rate among security officers that Kirk did. --Kels (talk) 15:16, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

I knew someone would correct me on that! I cannot deny the truth you speak, but I would argue that the term "redshirt" has become synonymous with anonymous death. In fact - WP has an article on this very topic: Redshirt. –SuspectedReplicant retire me 15:59, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

And, just to fuck up the rest of all your weekends... TV Tropes has a trope on it! Ha ha ha! Death by link. –SuspectedReplicant retire me 16:00, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Regardless of what WP or TV Tropes say about it, Pratchett's lecture was one of the few things that has ever had me crying throughout, with not just passion but reason. If you haven't seen it, you are missing out. That Patrick Stewart wants to lend his name to that sort of campaign is only positive. ADK^{...I'll deport your racket!} 22:54, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

If Patrick Stewart is considering assisted suicide we have to outlaw it completely! At least until he dies of natural causes, we simply cannot risk loosing him early! --Opcn (talk) 15:57, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

anybody else had their heart melt?

[4]--Brxbrx (talk) 13:19, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Meeeeee. But they'd have never done that to protest Kobe Bryant. Because that's how America rolls.64.217.183.231 (talk) 17:58, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

yet to happen in the english football premiership for that matter.Geni (talk) 23:52, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Heart melt? What is that even like? What does it feel like to actually care. On a more serious note, that kind of harassment was ridiculous; I'm not fan of homosexuality but that harassment was absolutely over the top. DexterM (talk) 02:52, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Yeah... what the fuck does that even mean, DexterM? "I'm not a fan of homosexuality", but I don't like the word "faggot"? That's like saying, "I'm a massive racist, but the n-word is absolutely over the top." Sort out that cognitive dissonance. Blue (is useful) 04:50, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

(That was tongue in cheek. I know you're just a casual homophobe.) Blue (pester) 04:52, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't march in gay rights parades or anything, but I don't support harassment of others. My uncle is homosexual, I'm not a "casual homophobe." I support gay rights, especially when it comes to the government and employee rights, but I think it should be up to individual religious institutions to decide whether or not to allow gay marriage in their congregation, since marriage has traditionally been a religious ceremony. I'm what you call neutral on the subject. Make sense? DexterM (talk) 12:51, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Hello

Hello mob. How do normal people contribute to a rational wiki known as RationalWiki? DexterM (talk) 02:24, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

By writing articles, conversing, catting, fixing the massive amount of spelling errors, etc. Тy^Talk. 02:28, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

"Normal" people do not contribute here. That is part of our charm. DickTurpis (talk) 02:52, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Ah-ha, then I feel right at home. You're all damaged like me. But are you as damaged? DexterM (talk) 02:54, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Is this some kind of troll? What is this guys user page all about? Ex-Troll Cheerleader^{Give me a G, give me an O, give me an A, give me a T, give me an S.GOATS! ♥} 02:57, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

It's a reference to this. Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 03:03, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

And Astor cheerleader, may the record show that I personally do not trust you, nor do I like you. DexterM (talk) 03:07, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Ooh, drama! No one cares. ħuman 03:22, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Hooray for mediation! Why is it whenever ETC shows up, a troll shows up? It is a mystery. Тy^Talk. 03:23, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Sorry about that Human. It was supposed to be a joke and then it turned into shit drama. DexterM (talk) 03:26, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

So why wasn't it "funny"? ħuman 05:17, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Why does that amateur have blocking powers anyway? DexterM (talk) 03:29, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Seniority. Mainly. 03:49, 19 April 2011 (UTC) C®ackeЯ

I personally can't wait to catch that little mongrel cross the line to where I can wrap her in plastic, stab her, dismember her, and drop her where the jet stream will take her body out to sea she can be desysoped and binned; I've been lurking here for about a year and I just know she's trouble. DexterM (talk) 03:57, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Blue (is useful) 04:54, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

She's my favorite cheerleader. ħuman 05:17, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Before I get lynched as a cheerleader hating troll, I'll admit her more recent actions have been rather cute. I see that she has earned the respect of this community. But I still remember the days when she was telling people to "lick her cunt" an so-forth, and that's why I don't trust her. Plus, it wasn't very mature of her to block a person for saying they don't trust her, so long as the person wasn't blatantly harassing her. Quite frankly, I don't see how she's been being an overly constructive contributor even since reforming her behaviors. DexterM (talk) 12:56, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Favorite Animated Films

I was talking to my cousin when she made a reference to Pinocchio. I sheepishly admitted to never seeing that movie, something that shocked her. Later I told her offhandedly that I had never seen Bambi before (joking that was the reason I can eat venison. On a side note, my parents bought me Bambi as a kid, I just never watched it). That was sacrilege to her. That was one of her favorites. She then told me how she bought it for her daughter along with the sequels. Anyway, what are some of the animated classics in the childhoods/manchildhoods of the RW community? My favorite animated film is Lupin the Third: Castle of Cagliostro. It's actually my second favorite film of all-time.--Thanatos (talk) 04:48, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

We made our kid sister into a vegan for decades through simple brainwashing techniques when she was young. She recently refound the Joy of Cheese. ħuman 05:15, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Wizards. Тy^Talk. 08:05, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Black Cauldron.-- ^{Spirit of the Cherry Blossom} 09:22, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Anything by Satoshi Kon, anything by Makoto Shinkai, most Ghibli stuff, Wizards, Jungle Book, Titan AE (because I watched it on acid and man, it's awesome!) --PsyGremlinPrata! 10:18, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Go and watch Pinocchio, and marvel at what a truly fucked up little film it is. Among other things, the abandonment of the bad boys on Pleasure Island to their fates of a life of slavery, and the weirdly shifting time scale (he was only on Pleasure Island for a day or so, but how long was Gepetto out searching for him? Seemed like years! --Kels (talk) 13:13, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh, as for favourite animated films (I'm one to ask, eh?), there's a bunch. Studio Ghibli's films, of course, Whisper of the Heart being my favorite, but all the Miyazaki-directed ones are excellent too. Nocturna, a Spanish film, and Mary & Max from Australia are both great. Secret of Kells is a visual feast, despite the simple story. A Nightmare Before Christmas was excellent, so was Iron Giant. Of the classic Disney stuff I'd probably agree that Bambi is the best, a testament to the dedication of the staff to research, technological innovation, and taking the product seriously in a day when animation was largely quick crap made to make a buck. I also love the Disney version of Robin Hood, despite its rather glaring flaws (the animation is terrible!). Agree with Thanatos about Castle Cagliostro, that film had some heart, but not surprising given Miyazaki's involvement (see also the last two episodes of the Lupin TV series). For flat-out action fun, the Street Fighter 2 movie (not the dub, since they changed the music and thus ruined it) is a blast. Haven't really watched the DC Universe stuff, although I've heard it's all pretty good, especially the Green Lantern and Doomsday ones. --Kels (talk) 13:13, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

It's hard to go wrong with the Disney Classics, my favourite is Beauty and the Beast but I'd say Basil the Great Mouse Detective is the most underrated (I've yet to see the much-maligned Black Cauldron). Anime-wise I concur with what others have said, but a standout for me is Gisabo Sugii's Night on the Galactic Railroad, which Miyazaki cited as the inspiration for the train sequence in Spirited Away. It's not to everyone's taste; very slow tempo and peppered with some spooky Christian imagery, but with there's tons of brilliant set-pieces and the story matches Grave of the Fireflies for emotional hit points. Finally, for some creepy pre-Selick/Burton stop motion, I strongly recommend Ladislaw Starewicz, especially The Mascot (which Terry Gilliam listed alongside Pinnochio as one of the ten animated features that influenced him most). Thanks to Psygremlin for bringing up Shinkai, hadn't checked out his work before, will do so now. Grumblejaws (talk) 16:30, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I like Shinkai for his artwork, especially Voices from a Distant Star and Place Promised in our Early Days. And I'm not ashamed to admit I bawled in both of them. --PsyGremlinHable! 17:30, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh man, I forgot Night on the Galactic Railroad, that thing is a masterpiece. If you want some seriously creepy/fucked up (but nevertheless classic) stop motion, check out anything by The Brothers Quay, especially work like The Comb. --Kels (talk) 17:11, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Cat Soup Nebuchadnezzar (talk) 16:39, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Not to be confused with The Cat Piano. --Kels (talk) 17:16, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Cat Soup is all kinds of awesome, if you like surreal (and if you like wrong Cat Soup Theatre). Also Angel's Egg - very strange, but gobsmackingly beautiful. And any of Studio 4C's work. And Pale Cocoon & Eve no Jikan. --PsyGremlinPraat! 17:30, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

You know Studio 4C is making the new Thundercats series, right? Agreed on Angel's egg, although I don't think I've seen those others. Have you seen Millennium Actress, by any chance? --Kels (talk) 17:56, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

MA is probably my fave Kon movie, one of those I can watch over and over. Tokyo Godfathers second. He'll be sorely missed. TC could be interesting, given the 4C treatment, given their usual unconventional style. Try and find Cocoon and Eve - same studio's work, very good. And thanks to this topic, I've dug up my copy of Galactic Railroad to watch again. --PsyGremlinSprich! 18:20, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

South Park - Bigger, Longer, Uncut. Anyone who disagrees is an uncle fucker. DeltaStar_{Senior Sysop}^{Speciationspeed!} 18:46, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm a huge Ghibli/Miyazaki fan, especially Laputa, Spirited Away, Nausicaa, Mononoke. Aside from that, I'm not massively into anime, although there a few others I like, & I'll have to check out Shinkai + Night on the Galactic Railroad. I'm not a fan of Disney, even the classic stuff; too saccharine & artificial, the aesthetic as well as the stories & characters. There are a few classic British animations I grew up with & still have a soft spot for, specifically Yellow Submarine, Watership Down, and the 70s version of (half of) the Lord of the Rings. ₩€₳$€£ΘĪÐ^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 20:12, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I've always loved Secret of NIMH.. the book was great, too. (Or at least, was when I was 8..) Quaru^{ninja - You can't explain that!} 20:13, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh crap, I totally forgot a really good one, although not old enough to be a classic. Sita Sings the Blues, the greatest break-up story ever told. --Kels (talk) 03:27, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Elizabeth Sladen has died

Bad news for Doctor Who fans. :( –SuspectedReplicant retire me 20:41, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

This is really sad. She was fantastic. ^EXTERMINATE 22:34, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

How many other Republicans are there here?

Sometimes I feel lonely. --Opcn (talk) 03:44, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Me. Technically. Тy^Talk. 03:45, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm a registered Republican. DexterM (talk) 03:46, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I registered Republican back in 1980. 03:50, 19 April 2011 (UTC) C®ackeЯ

I'm somewhat out of place here as a conservative I guess. DexterM (talk) 03:53, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

We have a handful of various stripes of conservatives here, a few have been around a long time. Hopefully they will chime in to make you feel less lonely. Hint: search appropriate userbox usage. ħuman 05:12, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I vote British Conservative. EddyP ^{Great King! Disaster!} 09:34, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Gosh. You must all be so proud of your party right now. Go Trump! –SuspectedReplicant retire me 09:40, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Today, Mr President, we are all Republicans. SJ ^Debaser 10:18, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I suppose I'm a republican in the sense that I would like to see the abolition of the monarchy... DeltaStar_{Senior Sysop}^{Speciationspeed!} 13:47, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I would also like to see the end of the monarchy both in the UK and in Spain, so I'm certainly a republican in the traditional sense of the word.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 14:42, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Trump is a disaster. --Opcn (talk) 15:11, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Once again, I'm a republican in the British sense. No monarchy please. ^EXTERMINATE 22:38, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm a republican in the Canadian sense of the word.  ;-)  Civic Cat (talk) 19:26, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Writing an article about someone who happens to be RW user

Good/bad idea?--ZooGuard (talk) 07:38, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Depends on what you hope to achieve. If its an attack piece I think we can do without it, but there may be a legitimate reason you want to write something about another RW user. Perhaps it would be better suited as an essay rather than an article. --Damo^Hi 07:50, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, he's as on mission as most of the people listed in List of internet kooks, though he's a relatively minor one. The article I'd like to write is mostly a link dump with commentary for the benefit of the people who'll have to deal with him in the future.--ZooGuard (talk) 08:01, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Ah I think I know who you might be referring to. Yes that would be appropriate, as if he is who I think he is, then the article would be mainly discussing his activities apart from RW. Damo^Hi 08:05, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Is it the same person I think it might be?  Lily ^{Inspirate me.} 09:07, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Use his full name, not his RW handle, and make no unnecessary mention of his presence here. ħuman 09:16, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

We have an article on Ramanand Jhingade who has also posted here and is in that sense a user.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 14:40, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

We also have an article about Ben Best. AnarchoGoon ^{Swatting Assflys is how I earn my living} 14:44, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't think it's a bad idea. We've also got an article on User:Jfraatz's MemeShock. Occasionaluse (talk) 15:10, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

How about RationalWikiWiki?Civic Cat (talk) 19:28, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

How very interesting...

Matthew 12:31 "And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 12:32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

The Holy Ghost is a donkey-humping S&M fetishist who pleasures itself with peanut-butter covered bananas. Yay, blasphemy. ĴάΛäšςǍ₰ In Soviet Russia, the vaginal hostel swims YOU! 14:42, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Have you no fear?--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 14:47, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Never mind blasphemy, how the fuck did you find out what I did on Saturday? --PsyGremlinSiarad! 15:10, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

It's not libel if it's true! --Kels (talk) 15:20, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

This was the subject of the Blasphemy Challenge a while back.--^talk 02:21, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Also note that virtually no theologians think that this is meant in the way you're interpreting it. Even from the first, most biblical scholars held that since the Holy Spirit was the vessel of God's grace, rejecting the Holy Spirit meant rejecting the means for forgiveness itself. So if you later changed your mind, this could still be forgiven, too. St. Thomas said: "Alio modo potest intelligi quantum ad culpam, sicut aliquis dicitur morbus incurabilis secundum naturam morbi, per quem tollitur id ex quo morbus potest curari" ("Secondly, this may be understood to refer to the guilt: thus a disease is said to be incurable in respect of the nature of the disease, which removes whatever might be a means of cure") and "Videtur quod peccatum in spiritum sanctum non sit irremissibile. Dicit enim Augustinus, in libro de Verb. Dom., de nullo desperandum est quandiu patientia domini ad poenitentiam adducit. Sed si aliquod peccatum esset irremissibile, esset de aliquo peccatore desperandum. Ergo peccatum in spiritum sanctum non est irremissibile." ("It would seem that the sin against the Holy Ghost can be forgiven. For Augustine says (De Verb. Dom., Serm. lxxi): "We should despair of no man, so long as Our Lord's patience brings him back to repentance." But if any sin cannot be forgiven, it would be possible to despair of some sinners. Therefore the sin against the Holy Ghost can be forgiven.")--^talk 02:31, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

That's a relief then.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 09:47, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Spending my big refund!

Just got an email from Amazon.com informing me of my windfall refund of $.18 for pre-order price protection. I'll have whatever is left in Ace's glass and the rest of Goonie's stale popcorn, please. Occasionaluse (talk) 18:13, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I'll give you a special on what's left of my tea. Тy^Talk. 18:16, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

$0.18 will buy you about half an entrance ticket to most of the museums in Bucharest... you'll build longer lasting memories that a cup of tea can ever hope to bring! (I just visited the city this past weekend; for me it's not a non sequitur!) άλφα^Talk 19:22, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

You should donate it to the foundation! I was going to send some money but my dad wouldnt let me. Ex-Troll Cheerleader^{Give me a G, give me an O, give me an A, give me a T, give me an S.GOATS! ♥} 00:19, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

A few months ago Braclaycard sent me a bill with threats for 50p. (It's a card I use about once or twice a year.) I wanted to pay them by bank transfer but the minimum transfer I could make was one pound. So I sent them that. Now they send me an advice every month telling me that I have 50p credit. Obviously the admin and the cost of sending me this advice is a lot more then the original demand for 50p.--Bob^{Spring is sprung!} 09:51, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

It's a computer. It works (badly) for free. It does what it is told. It does not demand health care or a pension... ħuman 09:57, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

But it does cost postage. And paper. My aunt used to keep a bill they sent her for long distance for like, 17 cents. since the envelope to mail it cost 25 cents, it was funny to her. Quaru^{ninja - You can't explain that!} 13:31, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

I once got a bill for a rent underpayment of one penny. MDB (talk) 14:19, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

PDF download option

Wikipedia has an option that allows general readers to download the articles in PDF format for offline reading. Can you create this in RationalWiki? I'm interested in many of the articles here, and this will be beneficial for many general readers. --Dave 91 (talk) 11:34, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

It's an idea I've pondered briefly because it would allow us to move away from the limits of wiki markup to something that would make a better formatted article. ADK^{...I'll litigate your polyethylene!} 16:48, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

What kind of computer are you running, Dave? In the meantime until this gets implemented, if it does, you can just use a PDF print distiller on your Mac or Windows machine. Nutty Roux (talk) 17:02, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm back

From a week in Germany and France.

If anyone cares to see pictures...

Les Invalides, the museum of French Military History. And before any of you smart-alecks say anything, no, a museum of French military history does not consist entirely of white flags.

The tombs of Napoleon Bonaparte and other French military leaders, also at Les Invalides. The guy in the green shirt is me. The little girl is my niece. I took a picture of her in front of Napoleon's tomb because I want to nurture her desire to take over the world. Incidentally, you can't see it in the pictures, but around Napoleon's tomb, there are the names of his most famous battles. Waterloo is not mentioned.

Notre Dame. I didn't get a picture, but in Notre Dame, they had machines where you could could insert Euro coins and get medallions of Notre Dame. My immediate thought was "they have money changers in the temple!"

The Louvre. Probably the most amazing museum I've ever seen. You'll see me in a few of the pictures, too, in a striped shirt.

The Alps, as seen from the balcony of my hotel at Edelweiss Resort in Germany. It's a resort for the US military; I could stay there because my brother-in-law is in the Air Force and was accompanied by my sister.

Neuschwanstein, the castle of "Mad King Ludwig". Sadly, they do not allow indoor photography.

Dachau. There's nothing graphic here, but, well, it's Dachau. I think the thing that amazed me most was that, ignoring what happened there, there's a lot of natural beauty around it. If you didn't know what it was, you might guess the crematorium was a maintenance building at a public park. Incidentally, our tour guide would make a good Rational Wiki-an. He denounced Holocaust deniers several times during the tour, including detailed rebuttals of some of their arguments.

MDB (talk) 11:37, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Nice photos! I really want to go to Germany, and the Alps and Neuschwanstein are high on my to-do list. EddyP ^{Great King! Disaster!} 16:26, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Be prepared for a good bit of walking if you visit Neuschwanstein. Even taking the shuttle but uphill, it's still a decent walk to the castle proper, and not over entirely level ground. MDB (talk) 16:30, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

I loved Napoleon's tomb, the way it is designed so that everybody looking on has to bow. What a hubristic bastard. ATP (talk) 03:26, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Have we become as bad as CP?

Something I'm noticing just be reading recent changes is that this community has become pretty quick to label newbies as trolls, especially if they're views conflict with the views of the general population of RW. I remember the days when we barely blocked anyone for any length of time. We vandal binned, we blocked for a few hours, but we never blocked for three months. I remember we took pride in the fact that barely anybody was listed in the current blocks page. Now there's many accounts on that page. Are we evolving into a stricter, more conservative website? DexterM (talk) 13:04, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I think we're getting worse, but we're no CP. Occasionaluse (talk) 13:05, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, the problem I see with the "troll" label is people get labelled as trolls, and then any attempts to question the basis for that label just get responded to with "Fuck off, troll". That's not being rational (despite this site's name), that's the same system of closed thought which Conservapedia represents. --(((Zack Martin)))^™ 13:08, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

If we were as we are today when Ex Troll Cheerleader first started here, she would never be where she's at today. Same with Occasionaluse. DexterM (talk) 13:10, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

(e/c)The only problem we have had is an upswing of people spamming their bullshit across every page in the site whether it's relevant or not. I don't care whether their views are idioticm unfalsifiable crap or not, seizing on every discussion to talk about them is a dick move. –SuspectedReplicant retire me 13:11, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

This is true. In all honesty, I can understand why CP deals with trolls as they do; they keep on-wiki drama at a minimum. Anyway, I have to go to work, I'll probably be on tomorrow. DexterM (talk) 13:17, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

(ec x 2. fuckers!) You know when somebody who signed up yesterday, asks such a question, unfortunately the word "troll" does come to mind. "You remember the days' - what days were these exactly, o he who signed up yesterday? The 3 month blocks in the log are all for spambots. And TK. Please show me a block in there that isn't one of the aforementioned. On that note, I'd actually like to slap Maratrean around for issuing infinite blocks yesterday. Not cool.

No, we are not more conservative. We have become more widely known and that does attract it's fair share of spam bots, concern trolls, bored 14-year-old wankers, and Conservapedia sysops. The day we write the Rational Bible, then you can compare us to that bunch of dribbling, insane cunts across the way. --PsyGremlinTal! 13:18, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I love how these people come out of the woodwork to protest things. Тy^Talk. 13:22, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Ahem. Lord Goonie ^{Hooray! I'm helping!} 14:26, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I used to love cleaning out the block log every few weeks. Then Goonie started intelligently knocking out spambots. next thing you know, people call real people editors "trolls". WE INVITE TROLLS! "We welcome contributors, and encourage those who disagree with us to register and engage in constructive dialogue." Is not someone who disagrees with the local perspective by definition a bit of a troll? These so-called "trolls" are what make this place interesting (ok, so do our funnier contributors who are on-mission), and keep us sharp. Saying "no no no, you're wrong" may work in a John Lennon song, but it is a lame response to "the big bang never happened". ħuman 03:39, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Psygremlin, you are making such a fuss about the length of a block for a spambot. Not a real editor, a spambot. Does it really matter if it is 3 months or 3 years or 30 years or 30 centuries? It's a spambot.

SuspectedReplicant, there you go again, you make accusations, but when someone questions the validity of your reasoning in your accusation you just respond with "Fuck off troll". That is neither polite nor rational. --(((Zack Martin)))^™ 06:32, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Here's a hint, numbnuts. "5 years" is not an option in the blocking drop-down menu. So if you're creating your own block lengths, like our other concern troll and his infinite blocks, it's wrong. 'k? --PsyGremlinPraat! 10:54, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

I didn't accuse anyone in this thread. Or are you just recognising yourself? –SuspectedReplicant retire me 06:40, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, you made accusations against me elsewhere, and your only response to my attempt to question whether your accusations were accurate was "fuck off". Now you are repeating the same accusation here - only you have removed the name of the person(s) you have been levying them against. It's not spamming one's opinions on a talk page when one responds to other editors who choose to bring those opinions into an initially unrelated discussion. Topic drift happens all the time anyway - why is it a big deal only when those topics are opinions you disagree with? If you aren't interested in a given discussion, why not just ignore it? Besides, if it is really an issue having such a discussion on a given talk page - why not simply just move it to another talk page where it might be more suited, rather than throwing around accusations and insults? --(((Zack Martin)))^™ 07:05, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh get lost you concern-trolling little tit. Stick to ASK where you can be ignored safely. "Fuck off" is the only response you get from now on. –SuspectedReplicant retire me 07:51, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Rather than discussing things calmly and rationally, you just resort to swearing and insults. --(((Zack Martin)))^™ 07:53, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

You wouldn't know rationality if it rogered you to within an inch of your life. Now fuck off, troll. –SuspectedReplicant retire me 07:55, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

People will surely disagree about what is rational and what is not, but I think there is sufficient common ground for most people to agree that responding to another's points is rational, and just saying "fuck off troll" isn't. --(((Zack Martin)))^™ 08:02, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

to you too

Time to trot this out again?

Read please. Thanks. 04:02, 20 April 2011 (UTC) C®ackeЯ

You're only posting that link because you're Hitler - David Gerard (talk) 13:59, 20 April 2011 (UTC)