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Conservapedia talk:What is going on at CP?/Archive35

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Liberals and Friendship[edit]

I've been tearing at this article, but I won't nominate for deletion 'cause that will get me blocked, but I've written a very rational rebuttal to every one of his "references". Let's see what happens :) ד.לערנער 23:47, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

Nice posting there, but I'm sure we all know by now - don't hold your breath. And I'm sure Kajagoogoo is lurking somewhere nearby with a banhammer, marked "whiner" ... Psygremlin 09:08, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
It's ongoing, he'll post more evidence, I'll show that it has nothing to do with friendship, I'm trying to get it moved to the Essay department The user formerly known as DLerner 11:01, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
I've just caught this sentence within the whole debate (and part of the original definition too, wasn't it?): "In contrast, conservatives virtually never require censorship or acceptance of conservative principles as a condition of friendship." (I see that Humblpi has thankfully removed it - any bets on how long that revision lasts?) Now call me cynical, but doesn't virtually everything that goes on over at CP fly in the face of this? We think what you said is liberal, so censor. Oops, you don't meet our standards of conservatism (i.e. insanity) so ban... then again, I suppose I am making the wild assumption that such a thing as friendship exists over there... Psygremlin 06:18, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

And Conservatives never discriminate against Liberals? Liberals never have a hard time on Conservapedia? How inconsistent can they get?Barbara Shack 08:00, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

Hehe, of course not! CP is open-minded and welcomes all editors, as long as they also have an open mind! "I openeded my mind and my brainz felleded out!" humanUser talk:Human 14:29, 21 March 2008 (EDT)


Alice: Be Gone Marghanita Laski 23:49, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

Heh. GrandSoviet 23:56, 18 March 2008 (EDT)
Alice doesn't edit here any more. --Kels 07:12, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Only a month? Karajou must be going soft. --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 07:30, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
They are really worried about having no editors left. Rational Edwelcome to the bizarro world 12:09, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Who's left over there, anyway? --Gulik 17:09, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Well, I've got seven socks, of which two are inactive sysops and one is an active bureaucrat. Jollyfish.gifGenghis Marauding 17:13, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
You are aware you just sent whatever New Special Discussion Group they got straight into Red Alert, right? --Sid 18:02, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
That reminds me... can we start sharing our SDG spoils now? please? please? can we? pretty please? can we? aww come on, please? with sugar? NightFlareSpeak, mortal 18:12, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Just don't do it here - try RatWikiWikiWiki, perhaps? humanUser talk:Human 21:56, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Why not? (I will admit to a burning curiosity as to the discussions of the CP's Star Chamber, but not enough to bother trying to get in myself.) --Gulik 23:51, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
RWW? That place's boring, oh well. NightFlareSpeak, mortal 09:43, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

Conservative Hypocrisy[edit]

Conservative Hypocrisy is speedily deleted at Conservapedia. We haven’t got an article on that yet.Barbara Shack 10:28, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

If we do start one, keep in mind that we will then also have one on liberal hypocrisy. Although, Conservapedia:Hypocrisy might be allowed to stand "unbalanced" (I'm sure RWW will balance it with RWW:RationalWiki hypocrisy though!) humanUser talk:Human 12:19, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Actually what would be cool is an article (in the CP namespace) listing all of that sort of article (examples of bias in CP, etc.) that have been deleted and salted. Checking "what links here" at CP:deleted page ought to find them all. If we don't already have such an article, of course. humanUser talk:Human 12:21, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
How about an article called Conservative Hypocrisy that onsists of a note that says, "see hypocrisy"? Rational Edwelcome to the bizarro world 12:30, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
And have the liberal hypocrisy article do the same thing? humanUser talk:Human 12:49, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Exactly. Rational Edwelcome to the bizarro world 12:54, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Of course, we'll have to cite many more conservative examples than liberal ones to reflect the real world. :) Rational Edwelcome to the bizarro world 12:59, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Now, now, there's PLENTY of Liberal Hypocrites. The Animal Rights nut who eats at McDonald's, for example. But the sheer level of hypocrisy exhibited by, say, Newt Gingrich talking about Family Values, is sort of special. --Gulik 23:53, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
I have noticed before how slow the CP speedy deletion process is. I believe several months ago I stumbled upon an article that had been tagged for deletion for over a month. - Icewedge 02:52, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
Another article of interest is "Preachology" which was tagged for speedy deletion by BrianCo on March first. - Icewedge 03:00, 20 March 2008 (EDT)


Just never ceases to amaze me -Smyth 16:36, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

And he pretends to teach a "world history" class... what a tool. humanUser talk:Human 16:47, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
The Mayas, I don't think, ever did anything worth mentioning. I'm aware of no trans-continental road networks they ever built. Please stop censoring my factual information.-αmεσ (orator) 16:52, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Yeah, and what'd the Chinese ever accomplish? They didn't even know what to do with gunpowder. -Smyth 17:01, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Yeah, it'd probably be a lot funnier if he wasn't actually placed in charge of the education of children. That just ends up leaving a bad taste in my mouth, after the laughter stops. -Smyth 16:58, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Exactly right. One thing that's really been bothering me about CP lately, too, is their conflation of "censorship" with "opposition, dissent, and debate." It just underscores their wacky little persecution complex, and makes it harder still to have an honest exchange of ideas.-αmεσ (orator) 17:07, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
That's because they don't WANT an honest exchange of ideas. Every time they get one of those, they lose, and they KNOW it. I remember reading a blog post about a Creationist science fair (no, really), which described it as "the educational equivalent of NAMBLA". I'd feel that way about CP if I thought anyone was actually using it. --Gulik 17:11, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Well, to be honest, I kind of agree with Andy here... Леушкаsuperstitious animist 17:13, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
It's not just about the factuality of his response, which is clearly euro-centric in my opinion, but about the fact that his response is a non-response. He barely even addresses the person's comment. And [1] -Smyth 17:20, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
The Mayas built roads, but only for walking as they never discovered the wheel. However, building a World Heritage site with out funding from UNESCO must account for something. Also, they were the only native American grouping to put up any resistance to the Spanish, being the last to fall under the imperial yoke. Lily Ta, wack! 17:24, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
The first one I tend to think of is the Islamic Renaissance. You know, the one that gave us such cool terrorist words as Al-Gaibra and Al-Goraithm. And a general explosion of scholarship, arts, and letters. Too bad the fundies got control of the religion/empire :( humanUser talk:Human 17:35, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
You forgot Al-kuḥl.  Lily Ta, wack! 17:56, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Ah yes, Al-Kahail. The source of its own forgetting... thanks, Lily! humanUser talk:Human 18:43, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
His point of view is that of the US, as we have witnessed countless times. And "US history" back in those times coincides with the European one. From this point of view, "Middle Ages" and "Renaissance" have a definite meaning and denote a more or less precise time period. But now I'm off to sleeping. Леушкаsuperstitious animist 17:36, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Yes, and it's in reference to a World History course he's "teaching." -Smyth 17:41, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Even if he had said that two plus two is four, blaming disagreement on "liberal propaganda pushed in public schools" is the kind of answer you would expect from a psychotic buffon. NightFlareSpeak, mortal 17:48, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

On a similar subject, watch Nightline on ABC tonight - 'Biblically Correct' Tour Guides --Shagie 17:40, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

That should be added to According to, somehow... (EDIT: Done) humanUser talk:Human 18:23, 19 March 2008 (EDT)


Well, not really, but I still get a kick out of verbiage like this:

"In response to the perception that schools have stopped teaching morality, many state education departments have or are in the process of developing "morality" that avoid good and evil, right and wrong, and instead present under the heading of "character" education.[3] The lack of appreciation for right and wrong can surprise outsiders, and even school principles"

When it is most of the second paragraph of such a CP touchstone hit piece as Public schools.

And I love the lists of "prominent Americans" and " Celebrities, Businessmen, Astronauts, Nobel Laureates and Candidates" who attended public schools before and after some arbitrary dates, which are only vaguely alluded to in typical Assfly hand-wavy fashion. humanUser talk:Human 17:31, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

Are Andy and Ed systematically trying to drive away their most sane and productive editors now?[edit]

Apologies for the long headline, but WTF? First Fox, and now Jazz. This is mobbing at its best. --Sid 18:23, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

Yes, but RW is just as bad if not worse!!! humanUser talk:Human 18:24, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Well, of course we are. We're the Wiki That Shall Not Be Named, after all.
Seriously, though, Andy just memory-hole'd Jazz's declaration of leaving if the insult stays. I guess that's one way of saying "We don't negotiate with terrorists editors whose talk page comments don't conform with my view." --Sid 18:31, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
The end of times indeed. NightFlareSpeak, mortal 18:35, 19 March 2008 (EDT) Just when I thought he had totally snapped, Ed Poor does something sane again. Let's hope it stays that way. --Sid 18:42, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Or maybe he'll end up as a reference in one of Andy's essays too. NightFlareSpeak, mortal 18:44, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Go Ed! I wonder what will prove the final straw for the likes of PJR and DanH. --Robledo 18:49, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Nah, Andy fulfilled his quota of fired sysop for March already. Maybe in April ;) But I'm willing to bet that Andy will enforce his will in this issue. Oh, actually Ed's already making up for his revert by stating as fact that Dawkins got his professorship without peer review. AWESOME! --Sid 18:50, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
"hi, Andy". It must feel horrible to have to submit to that clown. NightFlareSpeak, mortal 19:02, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Ahahaha, even Andy is all "Uh, what?" there. --Sid 19:08, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

(undent) Poor HelpJazz. Guy tries to help, help, help, and keep Andy honest. He even apologized when Andy showed him some sources, seemed totally willing to drop it. Then teh Assfly WTFs him by using his words (sort of) as an example of ignorance! By the way, the "cite" he used was not a permalink to the section as it should have been. Has Andy learned nothing after almost 18 months of blogging on the MW software? HJ must be seething right now. humanUser talk:Human 19:11, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

Andy is mysteriously clueless about how to do things correctly in MW... unable to set up name spaces correctly, unable to read diffs, unable to link properly, an apparently deliberate ignorance on their own manual of style... and that's not even getting into the content. --Shagie 19:19, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Yeah, it's seriously puzzling. Especially since the namespace issue had been brought up so damn long ago. (Even though they did manage to set up the team/judges namespaces, so I'm willing to bet that they are happy that their essays and debates contribute to their "fifty bazillion trusworthy encyclopedia articles" statistics...) --Sid 19:22, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Well, right now, the offending bit has been removed (although not by Andy). So I guess that Jazz will continue to waste time with contributing to Andy's "You must hate all things liberal!" blog. --Sid 19:22, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
I may be wrong but I reckon that Ed thinks HelpJazz posted the paragraph in the first place. Jollyfish.gifGenghis Marauding 19:28, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
...I think Ed's weird, but not weird enough to assume that HelpJazz suddenly cites himself as a source for deliberate ignorance. Also, the summary "let's not use our own contributors as sources" sorta hints that he knows what was going on. --Sid 19:34, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

Look out![edit]

This season's FBI Threats are out! --Kels 19:46, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

Wow... for one edit! And that was either removing or inserting a linefeed @ Dawkins! humanUser talk:Human 19:51, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
What is a "professor ship" by the way? Some kind of dinghy for brainiacs? Youth4Mist 19:56, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Well, we all know what happened with the FBI threats last time.-- Asclepius staff.png-PalMD --Did that sound a little harsh? 20:01, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Well, actually, it was for the "Strawberry Shortcake" article, which is now deleted. Although I didn't check it out, so I dunno what horrible things were written in it. --Sid 20:02, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Duh, that part had been WIGO'd already. That's what I get for checking talk before list. --Sid 20:04, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Hi, I just came to point out that I PUT IT ON WIGO FIRST, ALL HAIL ME NOW! NightFlareSpeak, mortal 20:08, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
You are fully entitled to all the glory. Hail the NightFlare! Auld Nick 20:32, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
I like the manly confidence with which Andy states that law enforcement will "probably" be notified. Rational Edwelcome to the bizarro world 21:53, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
*stares at definition* *frowns* Wow... learning something new (and gross) every day... --Sid 23:52, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Hey, I know how you feel... I learned what "lemon party" and "tub girl" meant thanks to teh assfly's perversions. humanUser talk:Human 00:15, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
Just wait until Andy gets in to 2 girls 1 cup then. Now there's an image I'll never, ever scour from my mind. Why oh why must I become curious about every sick internet meme? --JeɚvsYour signature gave me epilepsy... 03:35, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
Nevermind, it didn't get to 10+, you can keep it. NightFlareSpeak, mortal 08:22, 20 March 2008 (EDT)


On the plus side I did notice that since the fox stopped patrolling there have been at least 6 8 crafty euphemisms for "vagina" slipped into CP, plus a few other chuckles. CP really is the Blockbuster of teh internets right now, and I'm gonna need more popcorn at this rate. Youth4Mist 19:52, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

Freedom777 definitely deserved his promotion![edit]

And those who say something against it are just jealous, liberal communists!

Seriously, Andy's User Rights decisions are... weird. A guy who worked on ONE article (and basically nothing else) for NINE MONTHS and has done NOTHING to fight vandalism or help with maintenance gets full sysop powers? To top it off, a guy with the name "Freedom777" (a name that normally earns you a 5-year ban right on the spot)?

Interesting coincidence—I noticed, in my usual WTF-patrolling some months ago, that Freedom777's user name was changed from something else, by Andy. I don't remember the other name, but that person requested to Andy that his user name be changed to Freedom777, and Andy did so. This was about the time I was posting my WIGO entry about how people get blocked for "use your real name", but that those blocks never come from the likes of Crocoite or Karajou. So there's something going on. Gauss 11:42, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
Try this for size. CЯacke®
Did Cinci have any any contribs? Or are they merged into the new name? How odd.-αmεσ (orator) 11:58, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
Yes, "Cinci's" edits will show up under the "Freedom777" moniker. CЯacke®

Of course, he was destined for greatness right from the start: Look who greeted him and how! I guess Conservative finally found a Mini-Me.

Lovely, just plain lovely. I'd say this is step three of Andy's current "Let's alienate the last sane users on CP!" project (Step 1: "Watch Fox implode." Step 2: "Push HelpJazz towards the edge."). --Sid 23:03, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

Has he actually made edits to the mainspace? The only "two edits" I see are Conservative's talk page. Hey, at least the guy made more edits than CollegeRepublican. I wonder if he will ever post his article? Or if anyone else is going to be allowed to touch it?
And what's in store for Step 4, I wonder? What's left? Actually, TK once told me that Andy was thinking about forcing every new and current editor to prove who they were via a verified electronic signature or some such. That would be a great step 4, if only Andy knew anything about technology. Lurker 23:10, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Check this filtered view and you'll see he made these two edits (the "Evidence Filter" thingy is used only by his workspace).
And while he made more edits than CollegeRepublican, it all depends on whether you see the ID Workspace as a good or bad thing. I haven't read through it, but since Conservative edits in there, I don't expect greatness.
For "Step 4", I'd say that PJR and DanH have been acting too sane lately. CPAdmin1 is another case...
Alternatively, he could promote Crocoite or Karajou to Bureaucrat, giving them power over saner sysops. --Sid 23:20, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Ah ha! The link went to the Interiot tool, which only shows pages which have more than one edit.
I myself can't get into the ID article. It's really long and not a very interesting read. It's not great, but I didn't see anything that made me want to shoot myself. And the article doesn't start out with "in regards to intelligent design...", so that's a plus.
Oh my goodness Crocoite or Karajou with more power makes me shudder. Lurker 23:25, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Well, the "two mainspace edits" link (of the WIGO entry - I just noticed that I didn't use it in the Timeline! Sorry for the confusion!) points at the same filtered view... but I see how people might assume that both point at Interiot's tool since they cover similar things.
Croco or Kara with more power would be awesome, in a wrong and horrible way. I'd vote for that only to see PJR/Dan/CPA1 shutting up about CP being such a great, friendly and trustworthy place. That's one of the main problems CP sysops have: They don't see bullying as much of a problem because it never happens to them. I'd like the rules (as they are enforced right now) being applied to sysops. Just for a week. Let's see how many quit or get banned.
And actually, I just re-read your suggested "Step 4" (sorry, it's very late, my reading comprehension is low). WTF? That's going to be an AWESOME plan. Not. (Then again, it would solve the entire "Patrol Recent Changes" gig... since practically nobody except for the die-hard crew would edit anymore.)
This is something I totally don't get. People join CP and work for free. Any user who just makes ONE good edit is a great addition. But on CP, people get punished for not editing enough (inactivity blocks and stripping of rights, 90/10, etc.) and eventually get banned simply because they disagree with the wrong sysops. And instead of giving people incentives to join despite these mess-ups, Andy keeps pushing things even more to the extreme! --Sid 23:43, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
Ah, yeah, I'm too lazy to look at all three links so I just figured they were the same.
I, too, have never quite understood why Andy is so... burdensome to users. I think it's because he enjoys it so much, and has such a poor grasp on logical thinking and reality itself, that he assumes that if someone else isn't exactly like him, they must be an Evil Liberal Spy and should be stopped at all costs. I really try to see both sides of the argument as often as possible, but I've never found someone so completely out of touch as Andy, it's really hard to keep up. Lurker 23:56, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

So, did anybody call it? 23:32, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

No, but the odds against my pick (me) were so high that simply still being on the same planet as CP means I win $(ei)2!!! humanUser talk:Human 00:27, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
Human, I think you actually won $[(ei)2-1]. I put it in your PayPal account. Lurker 00:33, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
Sorry, my bad, I actually meant $ei. But as far as your deposit, it came through 5 or 600 times. Thanks for nothing :) humanUser talk:Human 13:01, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
Human, any time you need nothing I'm there for you man. Lurker 13:09, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
The next sysop pool never really got off the ground (those stats are from the last one, which are void as much has changed), as no one seemed to think Andy was going to ever promote anyone. Though I suppose it's just as well as no one was about to guess Freedom777 (or were they?). My money would've been on l'il Phyllis. I almost figured that was a sure thing. I guess the actions of anyone as paranoid and irrational as Assfly are pretty difficult to predict. DickTurpis 09:19, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

Does Freedom777 even exist? His talk page is just Conservative talking to himself. I reckon he's just a sock of Conservative. Look, ma! I made a friend! Of course, I believe in other conspiracy theories like the Conservapedia Homskollar panel not really existing, but rather just being a man-behind-the-curtain-esque mouthpiece for Assfly.... --JeɚvsYour signature gave me epilepsy... 04:42, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

I didn't actually call the next sysop by name but I did say it would be completely unexpected (note - must find linky). The last promotion, CollegeRepublican , was obviously well known to Andy, so Kektklik/Fuzzy might hav been a candidate if he decided to continue after 1000 edits, or even little Phy. I don't believe Andy trusts any of the regular editors to promote them. Certain postings here have served to discredit several long-term editors (hehe!) so our master plan is finally paying off. The few remaing CP wagons are so tightly circled that the sysops are getting claustrophobia and going mad one by one. Can the saner ones with any honor remain for much longer? Jollyfish.gifGenghis Marauding 06:18, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
The saner ones aren't the problem with the place, unfortunately. --Gulik 08:10, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
In a way they are, as they lend some support to the wackos. Can you imagine CP comprising nothing Ed's weird short articles, Karajou's enccylopedia of insignificant gray boats, Rob's reds-under-the bed nightmares, Crocoshite's anti-liberal blog headlines and inventories of all things Mormon, Conservative's homophobia and anti-science quote mines, and Andy's legal case lists and rabid anti-liberal rants. It would have no substance whatsoever. Wait a minute, that's exactly what they've got. Jollyfish.gifGenghis Marauding 11:09, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
Let's not forget PJR's "The only accurate science book ever written is the Bible" rants. 12:36, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
I just finished reading about a fourth of the article, plus all of Conservative's addition to it... Freedom777. Is. A. Conservative. Sock. (or pretends to be him.)NightFlareSpeak, mortal 09:17, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
I thought everybody knew that Freedom777=Conservative. As far as I can tell, they're the exact same person. We never see Freedom use talk pages, so we should wait to decide until then for sure....-αmεσ (orator) 11:10, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
A stalky google search revealed far more than I wanted to know in the first two pages. I wonder if Freedom777 and Ken met on Christian dating and hit it off over their shared love of colonics... --JeɚvsYour signature gave me epilepsy... 15:06, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

Ed's new hobby[edit]

Look like Eddie has taken up writing articles on movies he hasn't seen, and knows nothing about. This is like saying Casablanca is about a guy who owns a bar. I love the spoiler warning as well (Wikipedia rightly got rid of them for being unencyclopedic, and their's were much less obtrusive) particularly as there's no spoliler there at all. DickTurpis 09:27, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

Spectacular. I look forward to his later summaries. Maybe he should work off the list of greatest conservative movies? Lardashe
Oh man. It took him more than one edit to get Unbreakable to the state it's currently in. And Doc Hollywood is a spectacular "encyclopedia" entry. He can't be serious, can he? Greatest parodist yet? -Smyth 11:33, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
I'm looking forward to his review of Birth of a Nation. Rational Edwelcome to the bizarro world 13:23, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

Earth, Moon and Mars not of same origin as rest of SS[edit]

Interestingly brave of CP to put this on the front page with a link to this article. Ajkgordon 13:31, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

They just added that link so they could add the headline that basically says, "New discoveries utterly destroy the evilutionist materialistic pseudoscientific theory that the Earth, Moon, and Mars were formed from the same material millions of years ago!!!!!!!" GrandSoviet 14:19, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
Yes, b-b-but "Spring is one of the four seasons, coming after Winter and before Summer."!!! Pwned! humanUser talk:Human 14:35, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
Wouldn't this quote mean that the Earth is really friggin' old?
""What our results suggest is that the sorting of the elements that make up these planets may have happened at a much earlier stage than had been believed," said Alex Halliday, a study co-author from Oxford University."
Shangrala 14:41, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
I'd say the fact that they linked to the article demonstrates that they don't really understand it. Trying to score points against the reliability of science, they only bring attention the fact that 1)the Earth is billions of years old and 2)the strength of science it that scientists change their theories to account for new evidence rather than blindly stick to some outmoded dogma. Rational Edwelcome to the bizarro world 15:36, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
Yes but if you stick to thinking one simple thing is the Truthtm then it makes it much easier to win any argument without paying the least attention to facts or rationality or stuff Exasperate me!Sheesh!Not the most impressive contributor here 15:46, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
No, you've got that backwards. If you stick to the truth, rather than a simplistic version of reality, you don't really need to worry about winning arguments. Follow the evidence wherever it takes you. Rational Edwelcome to the bizarro world 16:17, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
Truthtm =/= truth. 18:27, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
Pah, that sounds like actual work. Just stick to what you think the Bible says and make the rest up on the fly. --Sid 16:31, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
To paraphrase Stephen Colbert "evidence has a well known liberal bias" Exasperate me!Sheesh!Not the most impressive contributor here 17:09, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
You forgot the "..., Sir. I accept your apology." humanUser talk:Human 17:18, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
Or to paraphrase the great Andrew Schlafly "Well, yes, you are literally correct, but figuratively that [information] reinforces the thesis." Pure genius. (Quote from here by the way.) -Smyth 17:26, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

Hence, "interestingly". Ajkgordon 17:41, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

I like my observations equal unassailable evidence your observations are a banning offense. hehehe. It's watching a toddler on a debate team.
So little Andy, what is your position on:
global warming
mine! Mine! Mine!
mine! Mine! Mine!
area of physics completely alien to your "qualifications"
mine! Mine! Mine!
Exasperate me!Sheesh!Not the most impressive contributor here 07:54, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
But Andy's observations are 100% guaranteed bias-freeTM (now with springtime freshness!), unlike those of so-called "doctors" and "scientists," and are therefore inherently superior. To the point of being same things as empirical facts. Remind me again why this guy hasn't taken over the world by now?--Bayesyikes 11:36, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
The real problem with doctors and scientists is that they have ben educated. Were it not for these educations they would be free to see the world, without being bias by things like rationality and good sense, through the crazy-quilt lens of prejudice and ignorance. Only this lens allows them to see the Truth TM as Ashfly does. Any other opinion on this matter is liberal drivel and a sign that the holder of said opinion is likely, for reasons I don't pretend to understand, AmesG Exasperate me!Sheesh!Not the most impressive contributor here 12:31, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
I should add that the only guaranteed way to avoid this horrible plague of education is to let andy home school you. Exasperate me!Sheesh!Not the most impressive contributor here 12:32, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

Goalposts on wheels - Night Editing, DLerner edition[edit]

Oh, Andy... your standards for night edit rights change every time, but now you're just being lazy:

  • March 15: "I need to check your edit history"
  • March 20: "Do you have any significant contributions that you can tell us about?"

What does this tell us? It tells us that after five days, Andy still couldn't be arsed to check his contribs. He simply went from "I will review!" to "You do the work!" (just like what he does when people ask him for sources, come to think of it).

And more goalpost moving:

  • March 15: "I need to [...] receive feedback from other Sysops about your request."
  • March 20: (after nobody else replied) "There doesn't seem to be an outpouring of support for you yet."

This is a nice way to shift blame: "Don't hate Andy for his completely arbitrary decision - hate all the other sysops who don't support you!"

Of course, the lack of support is hardly surprising. Who will voice support for anybody on CP? We have seen that Andy supports stabbing fellow editors in the back and is willing to ban good contributors because he has some sort of hunch that they might be deceitful liberals. And Andy most likely enjoys playing guilt-by-association games. So anybody who'd openly support DLerner now would effectively risk his neck.

CP has no community spirit. As Crocoite puts it, you're supposed to Mind Your Own Business. Don't speak out, don't openly support or defend others.

If Andy's new rule is "Anybody who wants night edit rights must have the explicit support of x sysops", then there will be no more people with night edit rights. --Sid 22:53, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

I'd agree with you except for the example of Iduan. He had widespread vocal support, not just for night editing (which he never got) but for full adminship. It was pretty clear that Andy was lukewarm to him, to put it mildly, but many of the sysops supported him, almost as if to stage a mini symbolic rebellion against Andy. So under certain circumstances people will go against Andy's better judgment. Not in this case, yet, I suppose. But if I know Andy, he posted some request for feedback on a page no one ver sees, and used the lack of any response as evidence of everyone's hesitation to support Jazz. It's pretty clear Andy doesn't want to give any more power to anyone out of his circle. DickTurpis 23:13, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
Hm, you're quite right that people will occasionally rise against Andy. But also keep in mind that Iduan had worked closely with several of those sysops over the months (4400+ edits in roughly... 10 months or so?), so he most likely looked like a safe bet (and was considered to be way overdue, even).
DLerner on the other hand has less than 350 edits and only joined in February. How many will readily back him? (Although I think Dan did back him when he had been blocked by JM - not 100% sure since I'm working by memory here.)
Additionally, Andy has quite recently shown that he's perfectly willing of taking away sysop rights for seemingly trivial things like "protesting another sysop's crap by creating well-sourced articles that follow a silly pattern". So what are the odds of sysops speaking out for a guy who questioned Andy and others here and there? --Sid 23:43, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
Some may fear that if they stick their necks out in support of someone else, they will end up on the chopping block with their supportee. Others just don't want the competition. Rational Edwelcome to the bizarro world 08:32, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
First, they came for the sanes, but I didn't speak up, because I wasn't sane... NightFlareSpeak, mortal 08:38, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
Then they came for the insane, so I moved to RW. Rational Edwelcome to the bizarro world 11:18, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

This and other recent examples illustrate why, if you want to rise out of the swamp of "regular" editors (where you are likely to be lumped in with the everyday vandals or deceit slingers, can't edit at night, and can be banned at a whim), it's more important to curry favor with Andy (i.e. write blog-style anti-liberal, pro-homeschooling rants) than to actually contribute real improvements. That was true even before these events, but at this point Andy is, consciously or not, effectively making a policy of holding back or driving off the honest editors who genuinely want to build an encyclopedia.--Bayesyikes 11:57, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

I'm beginning to think that due to unpleasant experiences Andy had growing up, at Harvard and on WP, CP is first and foremost his revenge against all the injustices, imagined and real, he suffered at the hands of his intellectual and moral superiors (many of whom happened to be liberals). Rational Edwelcome to the bizarro world 12:42, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
Or, rather, many of whom happened to be everybody. DickTurpis 12:44, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
Funny that you mention that, Bayes. I actually started working on a brief contrib review of Crocoite today because I realized I almost never saw him editing in the mainspace. --Sid 13:22, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
Update: There we go. --Sid 14:42, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

I suppose it doesn't help that I frequently post here. I honestly want to help CP, be one of the voices of reason you know, I'll make my case and see what comes of it. One thing in my favor I suppose is that I never have vandalized the site. I've been a member for a short time but I've written several articles. But anyway, how often do they give liberals anything there anyway. The user formerly known as DLerner 06:31, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

AP Copyrights[edit]

In assisting Crocoite in respecting intellectual property, a few more AP images for someone to clean up:

This goes back 3 months for images that identified their source. There are many questionable ones for images that didn't identify their source and simply said 'fair use'. I hope that is cleaned up before some people realize the gold mine that CP's copyright infringements can be (alternatively, what a headache to the site owner they can be if he tries to defend them). --Shagie 13:55, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

Well, some are gone now... looks like they're halfway serious about this one...
But does anybody know what happened to suddenly elevate AP's copyright above the reach of CP's Fair Use view? --Sid 22:48, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
I know nothing about it. I swear...--WJThomas 15:14, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Major Whinging[edit]

Can people check a bit for older WIGOs that are essentially the same thread as what they are posting, and add updates rather than make a new entry? It makes the already exisiting ones better to follow up on them, and reduces redundancy (case in point right now, the two separate ones going to the mathematician thread at talk:homskolling). Now that I have that off my chest, continue as usual ;) humanUser talk:Human 13:59, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

PS, I get tired of reading about obvious sockpuppets "exploits" on here. Come on, report on CP, not the endless trolls. WIGO is getting boring. humanUser talk:Human 01:03, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Agree. WIGO's job is not to point out the parody and subtle vandalism on CP, it is to point out the stupidity, madness and ineptitude of those who run the place and their sycophantic supporters. We should not be doing the CP sysop's work for them. That's why the hypocrites hang out here in the first place. Jollyfish.gifGenghis Marauding 04:00, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Human reproduction[edit]

I like the last paragraph:

"Humans are not able to reproduce alone by budding, parthenogenesis, or self-cloning as some species are capable of. In addition, human gender is fixed, unlike some species, females are not able to become male or vice versa to deal with homogeneous populations of one gender."

Because I wrote it way back when on the talk page when I tried to write a "prudish family" friendly draft for the article. I just love the idea of humans budding. humanUser talk:Human 15:23, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

You know what Jimmy Cliff says, some Christian be rude too. Lord, how can you possibly write an article about human reproduction while assiduously failing to mention sex, or the organs involved in delivering the gametes? Honestly, I don't know why they even bother. Their self imposed constraints mean they can hardly write anything beyond "humans reproduce." --JeɚvsYour signature gave me epilepsy... 15:50, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
I like that article, as all articles which are the fruit of multiple editors. You can find little gems in such articles. A cryptic Леушкаsuperstitious animist 17:27, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
I also like the bit where it says: "In order for human reproduction to occur, a married man and woman should engage in the ultimate act of intimacy." So that makes us just like praying mantises, yes? Jollyfish.gifGenghis Marauding 18:46, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
That's oral sex, you filthy pig... humanUser talk:Human 19:43, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

Andrea Dworkin[edit]

Another incisive article by Ed Poor, missing only the minor points that Dworkin 'was' rather than 'is' a feminist, having died in 2005, and that her being "hostile toward men and oppos[ing] the institution of marriage" was manifested by her being... er... married... er... to a man. Fretfulporpentine 17:17, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

To be fair, Dworkin was a bit of a nut.Shangrala 00:03, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Communism and feminism[edit]

This has got to be one of the articles with the highest "Lulz/word" ratio. It reads straight like some sort of war propaganda poster.

Gotta hand it to Ed, he sure takes care of all those parodists that are/were spreading on CP - by driving them out of business. --Sid 18:51, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

He MUST have some real life/personal life issues going on at the moment. This article is way too bad good, even for Ed's low high standards. Леушкаsuperstitious animist 06:48, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Breaking News[edit]

Seriously though, WTF? For one thing, it's not exactly stellar art, even for the period, but what's up with the white guys? Didn't Christ get crucified in the Middle East, not Dublin? --Kels 18:55, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

Typical CP main page edit. Come up with an idea and then swamp the layout to the detriment of everything else. Jollyfish.gifGenghis Marauding 19:03, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
Be nice :) It is murder Jesus weekend, after all. I like how he added the word "mockery" as an afterthought. Me, I might listen to or watch JCS. Heck, I've even dug out the old KJV to try to keep track of the damn libretto while watching. My BIG THOUGHT for the day (especially reflecting on the disaster that is "Genesis") - those folks who slapped together the Bible could really have used something like the MediaWiki software ;) humanUser talk:Human 19:47, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
I sometimes think they did - except the sysops were really crap at reverting vandalism. Zmidponk 20:39, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
Hehehe... and no one really knew how to resolve conflicts and properly merge two articles or sections into each other? Yeah, the bible was compiled on MW, with incompetent sysops. I'll buy that. humanUser talk:Human 20:52, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
Oh, God, I've just had a really, wacky, horrible thought - what if, 4000 years from now, the primary religion of the human race was based on a book of numerous mistranslations of the ramblings of Conservapedia? Zmidponk 21:37, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
Or worse yet, TrashionalWiki?! humanUser talk:Human 21:54, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
Even worse, what if they don't base religion, but history books on CP? Even though I'd be amused by Conservaism/Schlaflyism, WIGOism or Rawikism, to be honest... Imagine people believing every word Andy speaks! ...oh, wait, that's just what CP will be, once the "Drive away the last sane editors!" project succeeds. --Sid 22:44, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
Would those history books look like this by any chance? --Kels 22:49, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
*laughs* Yes, either that or this (hilarious movie if you haven't seen it, btw.) --Sid 08:25, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
I know many who don't celebrate Easter until April 27th this year. Eastern orthodox. Could certainly be confusing for someone who believes there is only one way to count things though. --Shagie 21:59, 21 March 2008 (EDT)


TerryH's "thin ice" warning was more for ruining his stellar hyperbole rather than for the content. I, for one, don't doubt Nero woulda loved the pre-hayes "guidelines"....funny that "free-marketeers" don't agree with free speechers when it comes to letting the market (in this case motion pictures) regulate itself. CЯacke® 00:11, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Ha ha ha, silly. Everybody knows that Almighty Religious Right overrides any other claimed ideologies! God commands it so! Lurker 10:36, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
The irony being that just as many conservatives are profiting from Hollywood values as liberals, if not more. I don't see Fox producing very many movies approved by Capalert. Rational Edwelcome to the bizarro world 11:39, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

A Message to Ed Poor[edit]

Here's something I can't write on CP:

Ed, the quality of the many articles that you start is piss-poor! When you start an article, do some research and write something that's more then a fucking line! The user formerly known as DLerner 08:28, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Another message to Ed Poor: Andy appreciates your contributions, but if I were you, I'd start touching wood/metal/intimate parts: I wouldn't like someone wishing me "a blessed Easter Resurrection". Леушкаsuperstitious animist 08:42, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Wow. That sure is an amazing collection of rants, one-liners, redirects and random quotes! And surely, cp:Place names beginning with an article must be just about teh greatest article evah?! --AKjeldsenGodspeed! 08:50, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Depends on how one judges greatness...If, for example, the standard is concise-iosity, it's hard to beat the greatness of computer programmer.--WJThomas 09:07, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
Actually the most concise article was written by Fox - Baron. Jollyfish.gifGenghis Marauding 16:10, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
sorry 'bout the change to Ed's Hall of Fame one-liner. That was my mild-mannered alter-ego - he's a bit of a perfectionist. 00:18, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

And yet another message: Ed, 1 centimeter is NOT 2.54 inches. Superstitious animistEd at CP 05:58, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

Actually the WIGO link is to an earlier revision, Ed has since corrected the error and poured scorn on all those who did not spot it. Jollyfish.gifGenghis Marauding 07:25, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

MargeryCampbell - Is she for real?[edit]

Take a look at this,

Now, in case they get rid of it, here is the text for posterity.

Despite my best efforts to convince him, my husband has forbidden me from contributing anything at all to this project. Not only has he made it clear to me that I'm not to add any more content to this encyclopedia he wants me to delete the sum of the edits I have made thus far. I told him that once the edits are made I had no control or rights to have the edits rescinded. He accused me of not being willing to submit to his authority as the head of our household...after much prayer and soul searching I came to the same conclusion. While it breaks my heart, I must ask that the entirty of I Samuel be deleted.

I sincerely pray for this wonderful project, I ask the Lord Jesus Christ to continue using this blessed venue to unceaselessly proclaim the Truth and to fight the forces of evil that subvert the righteousness that (once) made America great. It is only with God that our country can ever have a chance to reclaim the souls of our children.

Blessings upon you all and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

This has got to be a parody.

Now read this from her talk page

my husband Henry R. Campbell is running for a county commsioner's seat in Texas

Is this the sort of thing we can find out? I googled, but I'm gonna assume most people in Texas don't have their info on the internets. So WTF is up with this? The user formerly known as DLerner 10:27, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

I don't think she's for real, but I didn't want to off and call her a slave to her face (I had a response typed in the box, then decided not to send it) just in case she really does believe it. Lurker 10:33, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
If we could find out what seat her husband is running for, I'd forward that little tidbit to the local news source. That sort of marriage is truly unhealthy, and the sort of man who participates in one is no man at all.-αmεσ (orator) 10:53, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
The woman is rather stuck. She is being forbidden by her husband to participate on a wiki that would sooner or later ban her anyway. Though he sounds like a jerk at least he's smart enough to "decide for her" not to participate on a project that would end up abusing her; (even more than dear ol' hubby?)
She sounds to me like one of them ultra-low-self-esteemers that "needs" some sort of abuse to make her feel she's being punished for being the "sinful woman" she thinks she is. Though the scumbag she's got for a husband (future TARGET?) seems dictatorial at least he's "saving" her from even moer drudgery editing for Herr Schlafly. CЯacke® 11:13, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
I rather thought she sounded like one of the very few people who would have enjoyed and benefited from CP. It may've been one of a few ways for her to express herself politically to the outside world. Sigh. I'm amazed that things like this still go on in a civilized country, in the name of religion.
One more point. How boring would it be to have a wife who always told you you were right? That's not a wife, that's a parrot and a sex toy. Maybe I'm overly romantic, but I've always enjoyed the intellectual discussions and and lively debates with my girlfriend, and enjoyed seeing and celebrating her many, many real-world successes. Dating - or marrying - someone without that part of our relationship would be so empty.-αmεσ (orator) 11:18, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
Poe's Law strikes again. I think she was a parodist. DickTurpis 11:22, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
Yeah, I'm leaning on parodist now too: the reason? This was apparently her too but was blocked by Hizzonor. An hour later Marge shows up pushing Henry R Campbell (HRC!!!11!) to apparently explain the former username. CЯacke® 11:42, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

If she was a parodist, why did she leave? Doesn't make sense-αmεσ (orator) 12:04, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Maybe because she got her mission accomplished - got CP to believe she was who she claimed to be, and then remove an article in a way that endorses the subjugation of women on religious grounds, thus proving that they are a bunch of sexists? Quite the coup. PFoster 12:08, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

If she is for real, I'll eat my hat (not that I have one). Леушкаsuperstitious animist 12:22, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

On one hand, there truly are couples like those, unfortunatedly. On the other hand the HRC thing seems quite unbeliable. NightFlareSpeak, mortal 12:35, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

If she was a parodist, everyone take notes--THAT'S how you do it. --Gulik 19:33, 23 March 2008 (EDT)