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Conservapedia talk:What is going on at CP?/Archive57

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, (new)(back)

Lenski Hits back![edit]

with abandon! Ace McWicked 23:52, 23 June 2008 (EDT) P.S. Might be an idea to get a screen-capture for prosterity

Woah. Though, to be fair, I have to give Assfly some credit for posting it rather than pretending he never received it. I imagine there are not a few people out there who, upon getting their intellectual ass so thoroughly kicked, would not publicly post their humiliation for all to see. No doubt Andy has some typically Conservapedian reply that will ignore everything he said twist reality into some weird pretzel-like shape in which Andy explains everything away and comes out victorious. Can't wait to see it. Though it will probably be nothing more than accusations of "talk pollution" followed by a "and he still hasn't released the raw data!" DickTurpis 00:14, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
You confuse Schlafly with someone who is psychologically able to recognize his own error, about anything at all. Coarb 00:22, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Yeah, I probably am. My bad. DickTurpis 00:28, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I am still digesting it but so far it is excellent. tmtoulouse provoke 00:15, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I doubt ASchlafly would have posted it without Lenski's threat to make it public via other means. Seriously though, I really don't know Lenski's work, but right now, he's my hero. --Arcan ¡ollǝɥ 00:17, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I disagree. I think Schlafly is so twisted, so confused, so dependent upon his own inflated self-image, that there is literally no reply that Lenski could have sent that would have appeared to Schlafly to be a defeat.
If he can't feel embarrassed, no Lenski reply would have been silenced out of fear of embarrassment.
I don't think Schlafly is devoid of malice, but I think his malice is overshadowed by his delusions of infallibility.
But, unlike Schlafly, I might be wrong. Coarb 00:31, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
You know, I didn't think about it that way, but you're right. I think it was him posting the reply without any comment on the talk page. I figured he'd certainly want to redirect the criticism, but I guess he's just so deluded that he doesn't think he even needs to spin this, rather that the letter speaks for itself as a resounding victory for the home team. --Arcan ¡ollǝɥ 00:55, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Yes. A well done response to a man who doesn't deserve it. Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 00:18, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I read it and loved it !!! Apparently a lot of other folks are reading it too, because the CP site is overloaded. --SpinyNorman 00:25, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Who wants to bet that the edited out link is to here? Pinto's5150 Talk 00:36, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
That'd be a sucker bet.--SpinyNorman 00:42, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
We should sock up and press him to reveal what the link was. It would just be awesome if it was to us. Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 01:06, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Meantime, let's see if we can get the original from Lenski or one of his acolytes grad students, so we can publish the version with what is obviously a link to us. Also, wouldn't it be AWESOME if PNAS or Sci Am decided to publish these four letters!?!?! (Sorry I'm giddy with joy right now) ħumanUser talk:Human 01:11, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I have sent some e-mail to Lenski about a couple of things, I will get back to you all with it. Of course anyone else is welcome to send their own letters but lets not inundate the guy! Welcome to Web 2.0 Dr. Lenski. 01:13, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I suspect that Dr. Lenski has been around web 2.0 since before it was invented. Anyway, it is with heavy heart that I must announce the winner: One Ascssrschfly, BSEJD. It turns out that Dr. Lenski misspelled "acolyte" the first time he used it, rendering all of his further "discourse" irrelevant. Please, "Professor", learn to spell before you try to take on the titans of logic and truth. Godspeed! ħumanUser talk:Human 02:00, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I'd guess someone threatened the Ass with a libel action and that forced him to publish the letter. The publication is out of character. Proxima Centauri 16:44, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Dear Mrs. Schlafly,
I write to inform you with a heavy heart that your son, Andrew, died during a firefight late Monday night. His death, from massive ownage, was swift and painless. He was serving his ideology well, leading an assault on rationality along with a few other brave men, and it has brought this war measurably closer to winning over the country in the name of the 1950s. When separated from his compatriots, he ignored the warnings of his soldiers and attacked alone, bravely facing down a trained scientist with only his twin guns of fallacy and bluster. And while he has fallen, know that others will take up the cause. There is nothing conservatism can do to heal this wound, but it thanks Andrew for his sacrifice, and you for yours.
In sorrow and sincerity,
Zombie Reagan.
--Tom Moorefiat justitia ruat coelum 01:17, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I must admit, I knew nothing of Lenski before all this, but after his brilliant reply, I have a great deal of respect for him, especially from the PS's attached to his mail. Full marks to Andy for posting it, I'm wondering what the response will be - given the thinly veiled threats about libel. No doubt professor values will be updated shortly. --PsygremlinWhut? 01:44, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Just amazing. I doubt the man wants to be thought of in these terms by people like us, but I think we have found a champion. I;m worried I'm going to wake up. His e-mail was perfection. And Conservapedias response? Reach for the 'off' switch. RedDog 03:17, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I think Andy's only possible response would be "Lenski, you're clueless." GNUSMAS : TALK 03:30, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Bugler doesn't like it when people attack Andy DLerner 09:00, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

CP down?[edit]

Dammit, I want to read the Lenski pwnage. Can someone copy-paste it over here? Stile4aly 00:26, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Pommer's Law was violated so it broke the net. tmtoulouse provoke 00:30, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Done! Pinto's5150 Talk 00:31, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Thank you. That is truly a thing of beauty. I now have a man-crush on Lenski. Stile4aly 00:40, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Thanks! I can't get CP to load right now, I suspect they have been effectively slahdotted. I am sure that if not Dr. Lenski himself, someone made sure the 'nets would know about this. Time to slowly absorb, adsorb, osmote, and... enjoy. ħumanUser talk:Human 00:48, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
PS, note that this particular T:WIGO page begins and ends (?) on the same subject... ħumanUser talk:Human 00:48, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I can't get onto CP either, but is that the reason? Where could this have been posted to have such results within several minutes? Conservapedia is still a pretty fringe site; are people really swarming to it in the middle of the night in such numbers? I hope so, in this case, though I'm skeptical. DickTurpis 00:54, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Uh, universities are full of grad students. They all have the internet. This stuff's been getting blogged for two weeks. Lenski overshot my prediction by about 10 hours for his response, by the way. ħumanUser talk:Human 00:58, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I know what you mean, but what blogs have such readership to drive so many people to CP within minutes of breaking news there? This is the sort of potential Ken would kill for, and yet it is harnessed by Lemski within minutes? I hope you're right, and if true, there should be responses and commentary aplenty all over the internet by morning. I'l wait and see. DickTurpis 01:06, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Slashdot can take down some of the largest sites (I've seen major news sites go down with a slashdot effect). Supposibly Fark, Drudge Report and Digg can also do it. This shows the network bandwith for some site going to 900 kbps from very small numbers almost instantly. Thats a completely saturated T1. Slashdot isn't that far out of the realm of doing it - the top news item when I looked to see if /. did it is titled "A Hippocratic Oath For Scientists" - something that might link to the mess. --Shagie 01:18, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
The funny thing is that although we tracked this avidly, we don't even have an article documenting it. Please to, posthaste? I have to take a bath, but the first thing it needs to do is duplicate the CP page with the four emails. Then, screenshots of the assfly's dreck - this might not survive in the CP archives. Maybe don't upload all the screens, just report that they have been captured to avoid duplicate work. (NOTE: save all screenshots as pngs, NOT jpgs) Then we need to try to assemble the best (or all) of the blogs this has been discussed on as links. Suggestion: make it a mainspace article, since it is about an actual human being, not CP or Andy. Once more into the breech, gentlefolk at a website! ħumanUser talk:Human 00:58, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

You know, I'm starting to think maybe CP took itself down. The site went down almost immediately after the response was posted, and it's not Slashdotted, Dugg, Farked, or on Panda's Thumb, Pharyngula, or I don't see any source for the type of volume necessary to crash CP. I'm betting Andy buggered the site shortly after posting. He'll leave it down for a little while and then bring it back up hoping that the blogosphere doesn't catch the pwning. Stile4aly 01:14, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I have been running multiple searches across the blogosphere and the internet and am finding no mention of it. Something else is going on. 01:16, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I agree that, particularly absent mention on any of the above forums, there is sufficient discussion of this to overrun CP, but still I can't see Andy intentionally crashing his own blog to hide the evidence, particularly when he posted said evidence himself. Makes no sense. I'm thinking it may well be a strange coincidence; CP has been having such problems of late. DickTurpis 01:19, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Best Reply Ever. Lenski must have been reading CP a lot lately. No matter how excellent all this is, I don't think there are enough CP-aware bloggers to actually make the site go down completely. I'm afraid Schlafly actually has shut the site down - he might have put up the letter without even reading it, and now has to shut down the entire system to burn the evidence properly. Lenski will be the new FBI. But, let's hope it's just a strange coincidence. Etc 01:45, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I definiatly think Andy is closed for business right now. He had to at least put it up, then crash the site, reopen the site but claim that he "lost Lenskis reply", accuse Lenski of Professor Values, Evolutionist Style, Liberal Deceit et all and then this will never ever be spoken of again under threat of FBI Values. I was just glad I was trolling CP the moment he posted it. Ace McWicked 03:12, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Didn't Andy just give Jinx siteadmin rights to turn off the database. If he/she was a sockpuppet or a parodist, they might have taken the opportunity, before Andy relised how stupid it was to give someone who had not proven themseleves as a sysop yet such a power. 3.14159 03:32, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Hmmmm interesting, perhaps Jinx just closed it for the night but fucked it up somehow? Ace McWicked 03:37, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I think PZ Myers linked there, too, and he's got a pretty wide readership. Wazza (Not Wazzock, Wazza)Approach the Presence 03:58, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I am having trouble trying to open Myers' page to open too, maybe that is were the traffic is comming from. Although if I remember the story of the first "internet crash" they mananged it with less data than then the throughput of the line. 04:08, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Sorry it was me wot zapped your edit, pressed the Save button once too many times - the tubes are treacled up this morning. Jollyfish.gifGenghisunbelieving 04:18, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I know, we seem to be falling over ourselves to laugh at Andy, I have been edit conflicted about 5 time. 04:20, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I just had no trouble at all loading ħumanUser talk:Human 04:35, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Lenski Letter[edit]

(moved to Lenski affair)

Conservapedia's down[edit]

Conservapedia's down. My computer can't contact the website. The time is 8 o'clock British Summer time. Proxima Centauri 03:01, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

It wasn't very nice of Andy to take the fact he got owned out on the hamster, its not his fault. RIP Reagan Hamster 2006 -2008. 3.14159 03:12, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Fuck; fuck; fuck; You go to sleep for a couple of hours and look what happens! Don't suppose CP's host could have noticed the potential libel/slander accusations & pulled the site? Love Mr. Lenski!!! SusanG  ContribsTalk 03:14, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Totally agree Susan. I couldn't believe Lenski's e-mail. It said all the things I hoped it would say and is truly a beautiful, beautiful thing. It's maybe wishful thinking but I'm wondering if Conservapedia is down on the basis of arguments between the sysops on how to respond. He had hardly any sysop support in this venture and I suspect he will have privately received a tidal wave of "told you so"s from people like PJR. In a fit of temper (which I would imagine would be a boiling point anyway having read Lenski's reply) he may have simply hit the "off" switch in a "well if that wasn't a goal then I'm going home and I'm taking my football with me" kind of a way. RedDog 03:21, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

You know things have been getting frayed at the edges over there recently, we have all noticed it, suddenly Assfly oversteps the wee hovel he has founded and BLAM! bye conservapedia. Perhaps he pulled the plug, grabbed the largely defensive weapon of assault rifle and went to go find Lenski and those liberal scallywags at New Scientist? Ace McWicked 03:24, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

It's no good. I'm going to have to read it again. It's just too beautiful. RedDog 03:25, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
This is no coincidence that CP is down. I mean come on. That has got to sting! And on his own website too. Very public humiliation and I would suspect a torrent of abuse / vandalism too. RedDog 03:38, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I don't mean to bang on about it but I have now read Lneskis reply 3 times. It just gets better. That is a severe kick to Andy's soft dangly testicles whichever way you look at it. RedDog 03:50, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Bang on all you want Red, mere words cannot do justice to the PWNING! SusanG  ContribsTalk 03:55, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I feel that Hanlon's razor must be applied here. Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. Conservapedia being down can more than adequately be ascribed to Andy's incompetence than any malice on his part. I will certainly admit that the timing has a large amount of coincidence to it. Still, I don't believe you can go seriously wrong overestimating Andy's incompetence at wikipedia administration. For that matter, it may be Jinx'ed with a new sysop pushing the wrong button or something - again, stupidity over malice. --Shagie 04:00, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I really like the PPPPS re: deceit. SusanG  ContribsTalk 04:06, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
(3rd EC) Susan, I echo your sentiments - missing all the excitement while asleep. Bugger! Knowing Andy's self-confessed reading skills, it's highly probable he never read the letter before posting it and then just pulled the plug when he realised how badly he'd been pwnned. Normally when CP goes down we get the "Conservapedia is having problems" message but currently there is just nothing. And I wouldn't blame Jinx for anything, all he can do is close the door to editing. Jollyfish.gifGenghisunbelieving 04:08, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Google: schlafly lenski & Ames' blog is #2 (UK Google). SusanG  ContribsTalk 04:09, 24 June 2008 (EDT) (& CP's first btw - the cache is pre - this letter)SusanG  ContribsTalk

Hang on, think about it. This isn't ownage at all. Consider who Aschlafly's target audience is - fundy homeschoolers. You think that they'll be persuaded by Lenski's reply? They won't understand it. And if they don't understand it, it's obviously evolutionist spin and deceit.

And why would Aschlafly post his reply, leave the site up long enough for the reply to be read by all and sundry, and then close it down? He certainly wouldn't do that if he thought he'd been owned.

It's possible that somebody else - somebody influential in Aschlafly's circle - got really pissed off and persuaded him to close it due to the embarrassment it was causing. Or because of the potential slander. Perhaps even his mother herself. I wouldn't bet against it. Ajkgordon 04:18, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

As a lawyer, has Andy ever thought out the slander side of his "encyclopedia"? Here in Australia I know that if you read something on the internet here that you consider slander, even if the site is hosted in the US, as you read it here you can sue in our courts. As the host/owner/producer of the website even if Andy himself didn't write it, if he was made aware of the falsehood and didn't remove it he is also libel as well. Outside the US he wouldn't have the first admendment to hide behind, only if he can prove what he is saying is true. If he can't prove it and a judge says that it is detrimental to the person in some way he is paying for it. 04:34, 24 June 2008 (EDT)


  • Shares in Conservapedia e-mail reach all time high.
    Our reporter in New Jersey reports that several internet lines have melted because of unusually high traffic levels between officers of the shadowy CP hierarchy.
  • More as this story unfolds.
SusanG  ContribsTalk 04:30, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Speculation as to reasons why CP is unavailable. I don't pretend to know anything about this but I enjoy speculating so - well, yeah. Many people (including me) were already talking about fractious CP had become with sysops notably failing to take Andy's side and actually posting against him (PJR). He was warned by sysops not to go after Lenski. Last night he got the well deserved and very public humiliation of a lifetime. A short time later CP is down. I simply cannot believe this is conincidence. When have any of us ever seen Andy get it right where he deserves it as good as this? RedDog 04:53, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

The actual reasons could be....

  1. Simple cock up (I doubt, too much of coincidence)
  2. Too much traffic caused by people coming to point and laugh (I doubt this - it happened too quickly)
  3. He's taken it down in a blaze of anger following arguments with other sysops (My favorite theory)
  4. He can realised the futility of the whole project and given up (unlikely knowing his character)
  5. One of the other sysops has taken it down through vandalism, malice, etc
  6. Anything else?
  1. Mommy got cross.
  2. Legal threat. Ajkgordon 04:58, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Hmmm to quick for a legal threat. I'm thinking Andy panicked, did know what to do , where to turn for advice. His brain exploded. Perhaps, in a sudden rush which overwhelmed his brain, it all came to him. In one sudden rush. Ace McWicked 05:01, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

  1. Pretend there's been a fault while I think of ways to alibi my credibility.
  2. Suddenly realised he's been wrong all the time. (NOT)
SusanG  ContribsTalk 05:02, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Susan's #1 is a good candidate. Ajkgordon 05:08, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I think number one but I like the idea of him going insane after realizing just how far he's gone.

Ace McWicked 05:10, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

He's been up all night drafting a reply on the talk page, will bring the site back up, then lock the page. Discussion over, he wins, carry on. Ajkgordon 05:11, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Oh, and while he's at it, I wouldn't be surprised if he's banhammering all the dissenters. Ajkgordon 05:13, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Well he'd better start with PJR then. And considering he only got 3 or 4 signatures on his petition it will be a pretty small wiki following the banination. I think we can be sure though that whatever it is it will provide plenty of amusment. I feel like PayPal-ing Lenski the price of a beer. I think I owe him at least that. Wouldn't it be great if he and his students could have drink on us? RedDog 05:17, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I foresee Paranoia taking over. I can see him doing a complete rethink: Completely re-organising before re-opening with radically altered edit permissions: Like CreationWiki, requiring e-mail confirmation & identity checks before editing etc. SusanG  ContribsTalk 05:18, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
He must be going pretty haywire whatever the issue. There'll be a lot questions to shoutdown to keep this under wraps and it must be driving him This whole debarcle has taken over his life god-damnit. He has lost all dignity, respect and become a laughing stock. He once said to me "Fortunately, not everyone is afraid of being "laughed at" (shameless quote mine but consider the source) which is fairly ironic given the situation. Ace McWicked 05:19, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Assfly can’t easily block Lenski at New Scientist and say, “Godspeed”. Proxima Centauri 05:21, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Nice for a CP sysop to pop on with a snarky remark, some blame laid upon us.Ace McWicked 05:30, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I can't find said snark? Could you point me in the right direction Ace? RedDog 05:39, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
No snark, I mean I want someone like conservative to pop over and throw some hell-fire down upon us. 05:42, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Sorry Ace. yes I see what you mean. I think I@m getting carried away a little with it all. I haven't been here that long but this is the funniest thing I've seen to date. RedDog 05:43, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Timing Does anyone know the relative timing of the letter being posted as against CP going down? RedDog 05:45, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Maybe around 2 hours, it was on the recent changes for a while before the site went down (I was waiting for someone to bring it up while wishing my account would be unbanned so I could do it). Personally I think Andy's encountered a problem with the software and, as a result of getting owned by Lenski, couldn't be bothered fixing it tonight and decided to wait until tomorrow. The other options about the site being permanentally down are just too good to be true. 05:52, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

My computer says Conservapedia is online but a firewall is preventing access. Proxima Centauri 06:01, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Will references to unicorns, citrons (and citroens) become the new FBI, I wonder? Fretfulporpentine 06:12, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

We're back on folks. Socks at the ready! RedDog 06:14, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

It's back. Proxima Centauri 06:24, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

CP Back running?[edit]

Is CP running again or am I looking at old versions. The last comment on the Lenski talkpage was three days ago. 06:18, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I think nobody bothered to post after Andy started censoring any reply that didn't agree with him, so three days of silence sounds possible. --Sid 06:21, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
There's definitely a 3-day gap in the posts but was anything removed? Jollyfish.gifGenghisunbelieving 06:32, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

IT'S BACK UP!!!!!![edit]

...damm 06:15, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Hallelujah! Etc 06:16, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
And the letter is still there, it seems. By the way, as someone who managed to miss this thing until now (stupid timezones and the need to sleep), I have to agree with all the people above: Best mail EVER. Lenski is my new hero for pwning Andy to with such grace and on so many levels. --Sid 06:19, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
At least it's up. I'm pretty sure that a lot of edits were done since then, but mysteriously gone. Also, the talk page is protected. I'm so suprised. Etc 06:22, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Looks like we may have an old version. But the reply from Lenski is still there at least. I think the whole site may be on 'lockdown' you know, like when they fear a prison riot. RedDog 06:25, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Oh, I get it now - he has, or will soon, remove some (or all) of the slander or libel that Lenski refers to in his letter, and then he'll be able to blame other editors for all this, and have a proper argument for deleting the history. He's a genius. Etc 06:27, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Huh? I can edit. Ajkgordon 06:27, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Oops, I wasn't logged in. My bad. Etc 06:29, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

The cats away...[edit]

Hey there doesn't seem to be any Sysops about. 06:38, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

No, not a good idea, IMHO. I would like to see responses to Lenski's second reply without any provocation from parodists or socks. Please, it's interesting. Ajkgordon 06:41, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Conservative has shown up. Does the man sleep? Someone got this article in though. 06:43, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Bugler's DEFINITELY a Parodist! SusanG  ContribsTalk 07:08, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Have to agree I thought that too Susan. It's sooooo hard to tell though. RedDog 07:11, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
He's the good kind of parodist, that's for sure. Etc 07:14, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Definitely!! SusanG  ContribsTalk 07:15, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I dont know about Bugler but if not a paradoist he definatly has a nasty streak. In relation to the other matter, I am seriously considering that perhaps there was some kind of fuck-up that caused this most interesting incident. It matches pretty close to CP's usual downtimes.... Ace McWicked 07:19, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

It's often not worth posting stuff here, because I know that someone else will make the same point. But Bugler's post is just so OTT that he must be a parodist. Anyone here care to email me and fess up? I won't let on. Jollyfish.gifGenghisunbelieving 07:25, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
How long do you give me? RedDog 08:15, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
That was like 20 minutes, right? Only a 30 minute block though, very strange. Etc 08:47, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Oh well. Better than nothing I suppose. I must be slipping. RedDog 08:50, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
The sysops have become a bit soft lately. Also, I suspect bugler of being a parodist, so chance is he's blocking you just for show anyway. I'm more worried about this guy though - talking about pooping during pregnancy while the whole site is crumbling, is really asking for it. Etc 09:05, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Weird. I see that British Cons got a day.--Bobbing up 11:25, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Lenski and "the genius grant"[edit]

I don't know if this has been raised before (a quick check back I havn't glanced it) but a few days ago Andy was calling the MacArthur Grant a liberal prize. According to here (some random blog in CP's finest style) Lenski won this award. Everything he has done for days has been an attempt to discredit Lenski. 07:46, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Missing page[edit]

Catholic views on creation is missing. Wiped clean away. Ace McWicked 08:17, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Ah the old air-brush at work again eh? I noticed PJR's final comment on the matter was quite blunt. Quoting CP commandments at Andy. Have to admire it. EDIT I can still access it here. RedDog 08:22, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
And we finally have a full and frank explanation of the down time. RedDog 08:20, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Oh nice, that explained everything! No mystery cover-ups here. Etc 08:43, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
What do you mean missing? Its still here and here. NightFlareStill doesn't have a (nonstub) RWW article. 08:23, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Yup: still thereSusanG  ContribsTalk

Hmmmmm, well, in my defence for not seeing it before was it was very late in my part of the world. Sorry bout that 17:40, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Main Page[edit]

Lenski's latest response to a request for his data is revealing ... about Lenski's attitude. Take a good look at the attitude our tax dollars are paying for.

No comment possible! SusanG  ContribsTalk 08:28, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

It doesn't matter what's said: he's been acknowledged and replied to. He's so thick, he thinks everyone else is and they'll take his word that he's won! SusanG  ContribsTalk 08:34, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
What else could he do. He painted himself into the stupid corner with brown paint. His 'get out' as posted above is weak in the extreme as it fails to address even a single issue. What did we expect? I think someone posted above it would be a new entry on 'Prof Values'. I still think there is plenty of amusement left in this one yet though. Will Andy send a third e-mail?? RedDog 08:49, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Holy Shit! I am glad I haven't gotten involved in this Lenski skerfafle, I'd have been blocked for calling Andy a hack. And Andy, if you're reading this YOU'RE A FUCKING HACK! THERE! DLerner 08:51, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Get ready for the update to professor value or style, "Professors are rude when they are asked by members of the public to release data that was payed for by taxpayers". 08:50, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Oh RedDog, you got in quick I didn't even see you.
Those are my tax dollars too. And, in this case, I like how they are being spent. --Edgerunner76Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? 09:00, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Seriously I would pay twice the tax (although that would take my tax contributions to about $20) if it ment that once a day a professor would send an email of abuse to Andy.
I'm actually speechless. Andy is a maggot, no more no less (I apologise if that's offensive to maggots). Surely he can't be that thick-skinned, or just that thick?? Oh and I don't think Bungler is a parodist, more like a nasty little man with a chip on both shoulders. He's one of those oh-so-holy types that gives Christianity a bad name. PsygremlinWhut? 09:34, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

He just inverted the inverse ad hominem attack - instead of adressing anything in the response, he just shouts "Look, he's wrong, and rude too! Look here". Since Andy has already come to the conclusion that Lenski is wrong, Andy is now trying to use Lenski's responses to spread general dislike against him. As I've said before, he's a genius. Etc 10:11, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Actually I've sen this tactic by OEC's before. If you defeat their logic but are then nasty to them it gives them an excuse to ignore the logic and complain about your being nasty to them instead.--Bobbing up 10:21, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

The Schlafly family can be rude whenever they like. Other people can't be rude to them. Typical of rich people. Proxima Centauri 12:08, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

That's a very presumptuous thing to say, Proxima. Especially considering that you lumped them all together—the "Schlafly family", as if it was this monolithic entity. Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 12:25, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I agree with Radioman. Only the Grendel and his mother fit that description. Oh, and maybe Roger. 12:35, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Replying to Bob's comment above. Yeah, that's a pretty good Conservative Trick in general. When they're completely destroyed by your argument, they avoid confronting that complain about Ad Hom attacks, or that you took up too much time or you applied an incorrect conjugattion of a verb or whatever they can grasp at.... for a great example of this, see here one of my favorite videos ever SirChuckBCall the FBI 16:17, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Schlafly Slander[edit]

Someone commented that an Australian being slandered Schlafly might be able to sue him in that jurisdiction. While they could, they wouldn't be able to enforce the resulting judgment; they'd have to travel to the US and ask a US court to do it, and the US doesn't enforce judgments that contravene the First Amendment. Bad news bears. You'd have to sue him in US court or enforce the judgment against assets in commonwealth territories-caius (ninja) 08:34, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Oh well there goes my hope Dawkins would sue him one day. 08:40, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Hnestly if schlafly continues he might be skirting the bounds of American law, at least where Dawkins is concerned...-caius (ninja) 08:46, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Would anyone really want to give him the exposure that a court case would bring though?Matt 09:06, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Probably not. But to get back to the earlier question, that leaves a bit of a loophole in the law, doesn't it? The internet is obviously international - but people live in different countries. So If I slander somebody on the net who isn't extremely wealthy .... I can get away with it as long as I don't live in the same country? Is that correct?--Bobbing up 10:03, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
It depends on the law in your country I think. Proxima Centauri 10:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
It also depends on the law in the country where it is hosted/posted. Americans have sued in the UK for libel because British laws are a lot stricter. Yes, generally when it comes to libel and slander it normally only applies to the rich and famous. Also, I would have expected Caius to have pointed out the legal distinction that Schlalfy is actually libelling not slandering. Jollyfish.gifGenghisunbelieving 11:21, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
There's an ongoing series of suits being made against American book authors/publishers on grounds that won't stand up in the US by suing for the one or two copies that have been sold in the UK. Private Eye has wailed loud & long about it. The sheer cost of a Libel case in the UK makes it impossible to defend in many cases, thus making it a rich man's law. SusanG  ContribsTalk 11:29, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
That's what I had in mind Susan. I also checked on WP:Defamation and there are other variations on the laws. In Singapore the showing of a defamatory statement, that I presume was made and hosted outside the country, could leave a cybercafe owner liable. Jollyfish.gifGenghisunbelieving 11:34, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

This is a bit belated but here is the case were the Australian High Court decided the internet was a directional medium. 18:58, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Lenski a record breaker?[edit]

What is the all time greatest score ever achieved on WIGO? It will be a travesty if this, without doubt the greatest moment in the history of CP, does not achieve the milestone.

PS, Bugler is a fraud. Got to be. Matt 09:03, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Either that, or he's an absolute asshole. DLerner 09:17, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Why not both?-- 11:38, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I've been wondering if Bugler is TK.--WJThomas 09:30, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I am sure Bugler is British. RedDog 09:35, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
He's obviously doing the same correspondence course as Karajerk. Jollyfish.gifGenghisunbelieving 10:01, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Look at my discussion with him. I'm just about certain he is a parodist, seriously. His language just doesn't feel right. I think I'll back off a little. RedDog 10:33, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
"The place is the cesspit of the internet"... somehow it seems like a compliment. Although the entire discussion there seems to have stirred up a lot of crap among the users who aren't in on the loop/joke of it. 11:34, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I am now utterly convinced that Bugler is one of us. Let's keep it down. Etc 12:15, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I can't say that I have kept any kind of track, but I don't believe that anything has gotten past 40-ish. --Edgerunner76Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? 09:23, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
The one about women wearing pants being evil got more than 40 thumbs up.
That reminds me, I haven't WIGOed anything that gets to be in Best Of this month yet. NightFlareStill doesn't have a (nonstub) RWW article. 09:25, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Is there (should there be?) a top 10 voted WIGO items or something? As of now, there's only the 10 thumbs up barrage for entering the Best of, or am I wrong? (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 09:33, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Correct. NightFlareStill doesn't have a (nonstub) RWW article. 09:37, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
It would need far more skilz than I have but a Best Of sorted by ranking would be nice. Silver Sloth 09:42, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
My IP's different every time I log on to t'internet. I could artificially inflate items (I don't) so I don't think it would be a good idea. SusanG  ContribsTalk 09:50, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I usually don't vote, but I voted that one up. I think I'm missing something - was the link that was removed to RW? - Lardashe
Probably, yes. We have to push Andy a bit before he will reveal that (beware the banhammer). Or, someone could e-mail Lenski himself. Etc 10:02, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I have been in contact with Professor Lenski (see Talk:Lenski affair). I can confirm that the removed link was a link to RW. --Edgerunner76Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? 10:06, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Even if the original Lenski WIGO item doesn't skyrocket, if you add up the votes for all the different entries about the first letters, I think the entire "Lenski affair" has contributed at least 100 votes already, and there will be upcoming related craziness as well. Etc 12:02, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

It should be pretty clear if something is artificially inflated. And I would suggest a section on the front page of: Significant events at CP, linking to articles about the Great Purge, the Dawkins Attacks, the Lenski Affair, etc. -Smyth 14:16, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I love how Jinxmchue is trying his hand at arguing against Lenski, firstly, by accusing him of 'writing like a 12-year-old girl' by...erm...marking multiple post-scripts in a perfectly correct way, then by wondering why the E. coli in our guts doesn't evolve to kill the host organism it's living in. Jinx, in case you haven't figured it out, the 'natural selection' part of evolution is about SURVIVAL of the fittest. Things that commit suicide by proxy don't really fit that. Zmidponk 15:47, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I don't generally like blatent vandalism, but I do have to laugh at this. Zmidponk 16:12, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Conservapedian Mathematics[edit]

I am not really sure where to post this, so apologies if it is misplaced. I ran accross this page just recently. After I stopped rolling around on the floor it occured to me that the last section serves as a brilliant microcosm of CP.Antifly 10:52, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

We call this parody and avoid attracting too much attention to it. Jollyfish.gifGenghisunbelieving 11:09, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
It hurt me, it really did. I removed the crap and they just put it back in. 19:25, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

PJR hates us won't join us[edit]

[1] :( Guess we won't see him over here then, eh? NorsemanWassail! 12:19, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Tsk, lastwordism AND threatening ideological blocks? If he wasn't a good Conservative, Mr. Banhammer might have to have a word him. I also like his reply to Lenski. Your understanding of my niche interpretation of my bullshit superstition is inadequate, THEREFORE YOU ARE WRONG! -- 12:27, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Actually he doesn't say he hates us - just not to talk about us. Which is their golden rule anyway. And which then forces them to censor a reply they said they would post.--Bobbing up 12:34, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Yeah, come on guys, be fair. PJR knew that CP was being trolled on the issue, knows that Aschlafly doesn't allow mention of RW, so stepped in. He's a sysop, FFS. Ajkgordon 13:15, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Alright, I'm sorry. I just saw his "Mention it and I'll block you" rhetoric that usually comes from other sysops. I changed the heading to reflect my wrongings. NorsemanWassail! 17:15, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Assfly ignored warnings[edit]

Assfly’s senior sysops warned him See here. What will he do next? Perhaps he’ll demote his senior sysops and block them. It must be hard to be a senior sysop for someone who is less intelligent than you are but has money. Proxima Centauri 12:26, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

WaltherPPK has been talking out of turn before. Just look. He actually dares to suggest that because he's Irish he knows more abut Belfast than Assfly. And he's threatened with a ban for that. In British English, "talking out of turn" can mean saying things those with power don't want you to say. Proxima Centauri 12:34, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Short of pulling a TK on him, Andy would never demote one of his senior sysops because it would mean tacitly admitting he was wrong to promote them in the first place. Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 12:42, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Has anyone noticed that the Assfly is unusually quiet today? Lenski humiliated the jerk on his own blog, and in front of his humskullers (Who on Earth would let Andy teach their kid anything?). Another observation: I think someone mentioned that Bugler might be an Assfly sock. A more likely candidate is TonyT. His punctuation, phrasing, and syntax are too similar to Andy's to be a coincidence.
--Franklin 15:54, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I have had the same suspicions, but I believe both Bugler and TonyT are parodists, both just imitate Andy's style. Quite well to, I might add. Etc 16:36, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
No, I don't believe that Aschlafly was humiliated in front of his homeschoolers. I doubt very much that his quietness has anything to do with Lenski's second reply. He probably is running errands. Ajkgordon 17:06, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

The Sixties[edit]

I just noticed that the assasinations of JFK and MLK are listed under Successes in the Sixties. While CP-ians generally have the intelligence of a rock, I can't imagine this is what they really mean. Jrssr5 12:43, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I wouldn't put it past some of the nuttier ones (RobS, anyone?). Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 12:46, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
It also looks like they're citing the Vietnam War as a success. Of course, this is after the same section that cites a lot of great 1960s music by bands such as The Beatles (who used drugs), The Rolling Stones (who used drugs), Led Zeppelin (whose drummer choked to death on his own vomit), Jimi Hendrix (who also choked to death on his own vomit), and others. I tried mentioning this, but I got bitchslapped. --Elkman 12:56, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
That section is basically the result of Bugler bludgeoning his keyboard. IIRC it was originally the moon landing and civil rights, but since then it became a list of "events in the sixties that are good or notable-but-not-outright-evil-and-the-result-of-leftists"-Shangrala 13:08, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Nah. Looks more like a formatting issue. Nothing to see here. Move along. Ajkgordon 13:10, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Lenski Letter redact[edit]

Dr. Lenski just sent me the original e-mail with links and formatting intact. He does link to rationalwiki. 12:58, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

This is me by the way. tmtoulouse provoke 13:13, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Was it to the RW main page, or something specific. If the latter, can you post the link? Thanks. --SpinyNorman 20:47, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

A new record[edit]

The Lenski pwnage WIGO is up to +78, surely that's a totally new level of plusgoodness for a WIGO vote? ħumanUser talk:Human 15:42, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

In honour of this achievement, I reckon we should make the Lenski affair article the article of the year, at least for a few weeks. -- 16:10, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Let's whip it into shape and make it our "non-random featured article" for a bit like we did with the ELG? ħumanUser talk:Human 17:01, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Are people getting bored of it or is there "conservative deciet" at work. I saw it at +83 and steadily going up and then it dropped suddenly.
The vote total displayed is the total up-total down, so if people vote "down" it can go down. I will generate a total up vote for you guys if you want once things have settled. tmtoulouse provoke 17:43, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Are there really so many users on RW today (83 plus all down votes)? (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 18:12, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
This article has been linked fairly widely, and anyone (IPs included) can vote. So it's not just us. ħumanUser talk:Human 18:22, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
The number of "unique" visitors to our site a month is upwards of 20,000+ (that includes proxies and everything) so yea no problem with 83 votes. tmtoulouse provoke 19:20, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Over a hundred now I see.--Bobbing up 10:21, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

R they down again?[edit]

or is it just me? SusanG  ContribsTalk 19:09, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

No, just slow-going. Takes like 15 seconds to load a page. NorsemanWassail! 19:14, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I'm not getting 'em at all "Network error" - not what I usually get on a slow connection. SusanG  ContribsTalk 19:20, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I get blank pages often, but I OCD my trusty F5 until it loads. <3 <3 <3 NorsemanWassail! 19:27, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I was able to access it for a while but it is back down again. Well you can't expect the hamster to run and laugh at Andy at the same time. 19:33, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
It's gone pants up here too. Gosh she's not been well recently has she? Probably just as well. I need sleep. RedDog 19:36, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

RationalWiki advertises on google ads, how much does it cost? -- 19:34, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Several individuals have sponsored RW in google ads of their own volition. It is nothing the site has done, and so am unsure how much was put towards it. tmtoulouse provoke 19:37, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Something Awful picked up the story too[2] If that wasn't enough to hit the bandwith for a bit... well, they're going to be swimming in trolls for awhile. Many of those guys make us look like amateurs. And they got Digg'ed...[3] The blog world is picking this up a fair bit wider than the original exchange. I hope Andy has paid up his bandwidth bill. --Shagie 19:50, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

It's LF, one of the smaller boards. They've had CP threads before, so this sort of thing isn't news to them. The Digg might be a hammer on their bandwidth, though.--Tom Moorefiat justitia ruat coelum 20:08, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
  • Still down. No surprise, if SA users are swarming to Conservapedia. --JayJay4ever??? 21:19, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I can't reload Lenski talkies, but their logo showed up on my search page. Anyone notice that RW is also running slow? If only we can get them slashdotted... ħumanUser talk:Human 21:28, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
To me, CP's server has crashed. Wait for the reactions. Lol.--JayJay4ever??? 22:25, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

Bugler and TK[edit]

Ok this is probably more farfetched than a blind man drawing a long bow and hoping to hit a pink unicorn, but I had an insight last night (admitably while asleep) and had to share it with someone. Rather than Bugler being a parodist, could he be TK returned? Common patterns of behaviour include:

  • sucking up to Andy by supporting his view no matter what
  • being overtly authoritative, assuming people respect your position and are going to obey your instructions
  • blocking often for the most ridiculous and ideological reasons
  • making minor changes to articles (or creating new stubs which are easy to make) and spending most of the time governing the talk pages and intimidating other users

I'm not sure if Bugler begged for his rights like TK did, but he received them in a short enough period of time (compared to other users) so he could be prone to using emails. That said, given the behaviour of Ed Poor recently these traits could just be common to those who think they're bigger than what they are. 19:37, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

More than one person has had the thought. tmtoulouse provoke 19:41, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I certainly noticed similarities. In fact, I was contemplating changing Martin Boorman from TK to Bugler on my userpage. But he can't be TK, for pretty obvious reasons. DickTurpis 19:42, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Yup! it crossed a lot of minds, but he's almost definitely British - I've got suspicions which I'll keep to myself. SusanG  ContribsTalk 19:44, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
I think he is certainly British given his knowledge of British footballers (very amusing by the way), his time keeping and various other things. I also think he is a parodist and quite possibly someone not too far away from this very line of text. RedDog 19:46, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
He can't possibly be TK! What you all forget is that TK was a terrible sockpuppeteer. He stands out a mile, he can't keep his temper, and he can't resist peppering his conversation with "LOL!". Amateur. 19:47, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Yes. While Bugler is obviously a jerk (provided he's not parody), he lacks the virtual sneer that always came across from TK. Doesn't feel like the same "vibe" to me. --AKjeldsenPotential fundamentalist! 19:49, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Not to mention using "*" instead of ":" to indent. SusanG  ContribsTalk 19:51, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
Yep. Classic. 19:53, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

"But he can't be TK, for pretty obvious reasons." what are those, Dick? I get a heavy TK vibe off bungler. Why would he do it? Talked to Andy and worked it out. Andy gets his "enforcer" back, without having to piss off the sysops that TK ran roughtrod over. "TK was a terrible sockpuppeteer", yes, but he isn't puppeteering here - he's just being himself! "He stands out a mile" yup. Anyway, whether burglar is TK or not doesn't matter. He can make his own name for himself well enough, apparently. An asterisk, of course, would be a total giveaway. His bungled deletion and repair at talk:Lenski was classic "TK fumbling with the buttons", but it could just be "someone like TK" - after all, CP will tend to attract more of the same kind of people it drew in the past, right? ħumanUser talk:Human 22:26, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

He seems to be inclined to delete things he doesn't like from talk pages. Wasn't that a TK tactic?--Bobbing up 04:05, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Yes. And how would one learn or fake that? To the Manor born... "A rose by any other name, still has way to many f*cking thorns" ħumanUser talk:Human 04:11, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
In my opinion he is British and a parodist. The similarities you mention above are because he is parodying TK's style. I would be staggered if this turned out to be TK himself. RedDog 07:04, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Also agree on the British front. Not just the footballers, but his general way of writing. Difficult to imitate, especially for someone as transparent as TK. It seems like some Brit is doing a TK impression though, when it comes to his behaviour. Bondurant 07:26, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Whatever! He's a TROLL. SusanG  ContribsTalk 09:34, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
I see exactly what he's trying to do; Andy doesn't even realize he's made a complete fool of himself, and quite possibly he will draw even further attention to this in the near future - and Bugler is just cheering him on! No matter if Bugler is real or not, the end result will be hilarious. Etc 09:50, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
What Susan said. Ajkgordon 10:08, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
I don't speak French but is the expreession: "agent provocateur"? SusanG  ContribsTalk 10:13, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Yes. And I'm pretty sure that CP is about to find him out. He's been pushing the other Sysops just a little too hard. Ajkgordon 10:38, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

I've been dying to...[edit]

...use this at some point, and TLA gives me the chance. Teh Assfly: "All your data are belong to us." Bungler: "You have no chance to survive, make your time..." The Acolytes: "For great justice."

(ok, it's late and I can't sleep) --PsygremlinWhut? 21:31, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

CP is back[edit]

Go play. 22:44, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

On another note, while not worthy enough for Wigo itself... I found this kinda funny. A user vandalizes Bugler's talk page. Nothing new there, but when he blocks the user, he uses all his big words to really put him in his place.... That's funny shit man. SirChuckBCall the FBI 23:04, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

This version's even better they blocked a lot of vandals with cool usernames Proxima Centauri 04:27, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

Funny, I agree, but... "oh gee, someone vandalized the user page". Not really important, eh? ħumanUser talk:Human 04:45, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

Quick! Hide it![edit]

Learn Together shows his mettle. --Horace 00:28, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

Wait, did LT really delete that entire dialog?! For why? ħumanUser talk:Human 00:34, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Following the 1953 "liquidation" of Lavrentiy Beria, the notorious head of the NKVD, the Great Soviet Encyclopedia — ostensibly in response to overwhelming public demand — mailed subscribers to the second edition a letter from the editor instructing them to cut out and destroy the three-page article on Beria and paste in its place enclosed replacement pages expanding the adjacent articles on F. W. Bergholz (an eighteenth-century courtier), the Bering Sea, and Bishop Berkeley. I'm just sayin'. 00:38, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Beautifully put I could not have expressed it better. These people are mere liars with no sense of shame. --Horace 00:41, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

Latest by Assfly on Lenski[edit]

I love the latest comment by Assfly. By my reading of it, the relevant part of Lenski's second reply basically said 'most of the data is already in our paper, and the missing parts (which was cut due to page-length considerations - nothing unusual in scientific papers, by the way) will be posted on our website. Also, if you're after the actual biological specimens themselves, so you can test them for yourself, well, here's how to satisfy me you can actually store, use and dispose of them safely, so go do that, so I'm not simply randomly sending out biological specimens to a random person off the internet'. According to Assfly, this is still 'withholding data'. Zmidponk 07:58, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

Lenski debacle on[edit]

Here's the link, the consensus over there is the as us, Conservapedians are mostly a bunch of tools. DLerner 09:36, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

This is (Doctor) Ben Goldacre joining in.--Bobbing up 11:02, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

DeanS whitewashes[edit]

[4] Check out his deletion summary of his userpage: Vandalism / Parody. MediaWiki funneh. What did Ed say in his usertalk on that last WIGO entry? I missed it. NorsemanWassail! 10:28, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

After Bugler accused Tim of the auto de fe thing, he randomly accused him of denying Ed's rights and then went into some rant about how he was a sectarian and literally would have done the auto de fe thing 400 years ago. NightFlareStill doesn't have a (nonstub) RWW article. 10:35, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Yeah I found it funny Bugler used the word "faggot" (he related to cigarettes - British slang) but I didn't get to see any responses after that. NorsemanWassail! 11:22, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
"Faggot" can also mean a bundle of sticks ... presumably for starting the fire. Jrssr5 11:25, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Faggot is NOT anything to do with cigarettes it's the (bundles of) wood used for a fire (or a tasty offal food) SusanG  ContribsTalk 11:31, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
No - British slang is 'fag' for a cigarette. Never 'faggot'. The word 'faggot' isn't really used much in Britain, but when it is it means the same as in the US. Oh, so yeah. What Susan said. (Sorry Susan didn't read your comment properly. RedDog 11:34, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

Could anyone give a quick recap of what happened for those of us (well - me) who missed it. The links on WIGO don't seem to work anymore as it looks like whatever they pointed to has been burned (auto de fe indeed!) so I guess they should either point to a copy here or be binned. 11:39, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

In a nutshell, Ed made demands to UltimaHero to apologize, recant, etc. etc. to appease DeanS. PJR and CPAdmin jump in and defend UltimaHero, and Bugler said something about the Auto De Fa. I guess Ed made an edit in response just before Dean deleted it all. And sooooorry miss Susan! My Orkney Isle friend sitting beside me didn't mention anything about a bundle of wood! :P NorsemanWassail! 11:59, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
To elaborate on the Tim and Bugler thing: CPAdmin1, in defense of Ultimahero, stated that to be a Christian, one should follow basic biblical teachings etc. Burglar made a snarky comment about CPAdmin1 doing an auto de fe thing (this is when made the faggot/wood comment), after CPA1 denied it (and stated that it was unbiblical) Burglar stated that he was trying to deny Ed's right to speech, that Tim is a sectarian and implied through the use of weasel words that he would've burned people 4 hundred years ago. CPAdmin1 denied the rights-denying part and I forgot the rest. I think Ed managed to say something right before Croco deleted it. NightFlareStill doesn't have a (nonstub) RWW article. 12:53, 25 June 2008 (EDT)


Can't get CP again! SusanG  ContribsTalk 10:33, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

A Lenski a day keeps Andy away. (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 10:39, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Up and down like the Assyrian empire - maybe it's a /. effect as everyone goes over to look at the lulz. I bet their page views are impressive! Silver Sloth 12:13, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Yeah you could be right. I would have thought if that was the case though we would have suffered too. I thought it was more just that they have installed a new server made from mahogany or something. RedDog 13:19, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

Still crashed, like communism. Oh Lenski what have you done?--JayJay4ever??? 13:25, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

It was up briefly and I checked the lenski dialog page and its views were not that much higher, about 46,000 views total, and it had 15,000-20,000 before all this hit. I would think the bump in traffic would be easiest to see on that page since that is the one being linked. It is very strange. tmtoulouse provoke 13:27, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
We all know Andy can't run a wiki, but surely the first priority is at least to keep it running. Has mommy withdrawn her funding after the Lenski Debacle? On the other hand our impoverished site is running like iced treacle today. Did you blow all that dosh I sent you on more crack Trent? Jollyfish.gifGenghisunbelieving 13:50, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

Oi, our CPU is in the red, she is gonna blow! tmtoulouse provoke 14:02, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

I'm getting "The connection was refused when attempting to contact" as opposed to the normal "taking toolong to respond" message. Perhaps the CP has been taken down for a major scrubbing/retooling? Also--this website is painfully slow. Go feed the hamster or something. 14:09, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
I fed Genghis's hamster the crack I bought.....that's the problem, turns out they don't have much tolerance. I thought it would help. tmtoulouse provoke 14:12, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Try feeding it caffeine. I'm sure that would help. --λινυσ() 14:24, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
I am trying every trick in the book to keep things up and running. tmtoulouse provoke 14:32, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Anything I can do? --λινυσ() 14:36, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Nah, mostly it is restarting the apache server to clear out stuck requests, and shutting down unneeded processes at the moment. Ran optimization scripts on the database...and well we will see. tmtoulouse provoke 14:44, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
How do you do the latter, BTW? I never actually found that out. --λινυσ() 14:47, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
the sql command is just "optimize table x;" I have a script setup in the bots directory that can be run using the command line mysql < opt.sql; tmtoulouse provoke 14:53, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

You know it's a bit weird CP being down. There seem to be two possibilities and I'm not sure I buy either one of them. (a) It's overloaded. (b) It's been taken down out of embarrassment. Now I would have thought that an attention hound like AS would do everything he could to get more attention so why isn't he working night and day to keep it up (so to speak). And embarrassment is really his thing either. So why is it down?--Bobbing up 15:15, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

I don't think this has anything to do with the site being down... but does anyone else get the feeling that this incident really hurt old Schlafly... I mean, he's been the ridicule of the internet before, but this one is serious. He's been owned twice by Lenski, his own followers (acolytes?) have turned on him and no one out there, even Conservative sites, are coming to his defense this time. The FBI thing, the Atheism wars, even the Liberal X pages always get some kind of praise from the insane crowd.... but this has just been one big asskicking... I think he's been wounded. SirChuckBCall the FBI 15:25, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
I have the same exact feeling. But I'm confident that, given some time, he'll rebound to be again his good old self. (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 15:30, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
We can't be too sure about that. Schlafly spends most of his talk page edits desperately avoiding being smacked down. Now that it's finally happened, and he has nowhere and no one to turn to, his fragile spirit may be permanently damaged (we can only hope). Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 04:08, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Uh oh. PJR Niceness break![edit]

PJR gets a bit testy at the idea that the Bible may not be 100% accurate historical record. Hey, Phillip: when did rabbits stop chewing their cud, and when did Pi change away from being exactly three? --Gulik 15:38, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

Oh my. You can see the wheels turning, can't you? "If she weighs the same as a duck, she's made out of wood... and therefore... A WITCH!" It can't be more than a short stroll from the idea that science is anti-biblical, to concluding that scientists are against god and must therefore be stoned to death. -- 16:37, 25 June 2008 (EDT)


It just occurred to me: How many of the current editor/sysop crop are members of the original Homeskollar crowd? That's who (allegedly) the site was created for about 18 months ago. SusanG  ContribsTalk 15:44, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

Wasn't it created for all homeschoolers around the world? (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 16:08, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Around the US you mean? Actually of course it's Andy's little bit of masturbation, pumping himself off against images of wicked anti-christian liberals. There was originally a "PANEL" that supposedly had ultimate power but since Ken took over evilution we haven't heard from them. SusanG  ContribsTalk 16:19, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Right, I miss the "Panel"! They took so much time to deliberate on that Evilution article! Have they been used ever after? Returning to the original issue, I find the new restriction on usernames confusing. Before, you could be quite sure that NameS (S standing for surname) was one of Andy's students; now everybody is supposed to be in that form, even my new sock is in the form NameS. (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 16:42, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Wonder if the Homeskollars' parents have seen all Ken's stuff - Gay Bowel comes to mind (although not often). SusanG  ContribsTalk 16:53, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
It takes some work, but the original homskollars ("the 57"?) were around before March 2007. Just check user creation logs, etc. ħumanUser talk:Human 17:04, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
User Creation log won't do you much good - it was only activated long after the blog rush. --Sid 17:38, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Main Page history is probably the quickest wayback machine. A quick scan gives less than 15 humskullers & an Assfly in the early days. You can watch them lerndering, too. That, and the truth setting them free. ;) --Robledo 17:50, 25 June 2008 (EDT)


I'm a loss for words. From just the first three socks she's made, I can instantly think of hundreds of possibilities to convey racism through usernames. Is she for real? NorsemanWassail! 16:55, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

You do have to wonder, don't you? -- 17:19, 25 June 2008 (EDT)


Odd choice to make a redirect. — Unsigned, by: That smug dude Kektlik / talk / contribs

New Old Topic revisited[edit]

This is all common knowledge now... but yeah, I'm sure this second image is exactly what makes up fair use Who was keeping a log of misused and stolen images again? SirChuckBCall the FBI 17:01, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

I've replaced your edit/source link with a permalink. Hope you don't mind. Agreed on the subject, though. Then again, it's JM. What do you expect? --Sid 17:49, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
The Oscars have fun laywers.[5] Side note - its not only copyright that you get into trouble with in that image, but also trademark. Trademark is a much bigger pain and is aggressively prosecuted (have to go after trademark infractions otherwise you lose it). --Shagie 17:57, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
4. Permission to use Academy Award symbols (the Award of Merit statuette and other statuettes, medals, plaques and certificates) and institutional marks of the Academy for any publication in other than fair use hard-news reporting must be obtained in writing from the Academy, except that permission is hereby given to use Academy Award symbols and marks of the Academy in accordance with these Regulations. 5. The Award of Merit statuette may not be used in generic fashion as a logo or decorative motif for any purpose in any video or television production, motion picture, or print or digital publication not produced by, or explicitly authorized by, the Academy.

SusanG  ContribsTalk 18:03, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

Just read #1

1. The Award of Merit statuette, commonly known as the “Oscar,” is the copyrighted property and registered trademark and service mark of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences (“Academy”). The Academy has the sole and exclusive right to reproduce, manufacture, copy, sell, display images of and publish said statuette in any size or medium, whether in three or two dimensions, and to distribute or exploit the statuette or reproductions of same by gift, sale, license or otherwise. No reproduction, replica, drawing, photograph, derivative work or other copy of the Award of Merit statuette may be made or used by any manufacturer, advertiser, organization or individual except in accordance with these regulations or under express written license from the Academy.

Even if you could argue fair use in copyright, the trademark and licensing and exclusive rights on that trademark get you. #4 (quoted above) points out that its hard news reporting - not soft news encyclopedias. Oh its fun... and yes, I poked the contact form on the website there, pointed out the general use and asked for a response back. --Shagie 18:14, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

Sheisse! - couldn't find the contact form. Well done - did you give 'em links to the piccy on CP? SusanG  ContribsTalk 18:23, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Of course...

"An image of the statue is being used at as an image for general awards given on the site. As I understand it, this is a violation of the trademark. Conservapedia is notorious for misunderstanding copyright and trademarks and ignoring any/all intellectual property laws."

Ok, so it was a bit hastily worded. As to finding it - I went to the site index. --Shagie 18:30, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Bootiful! SusanG  ContribsTalk 18:33, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Now just watch & wait! SusanG  ContribsTalk 18:34, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

Closed for editing[edit]

It appears that the "edit" user group now has to be given to make any edit on the site. No longer just for overnight editing. tmtoulouse provoke 17:34, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

I guess Andy got sick of it all and declared it to be night already. Even though it would be hilarious if you'd suddenly need edit rights to be able to prove you're worthy of edit rights. --Sid 17:46, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
He'll probably do an email interrogation on all new users before letting them edit. Guard your socks! SusanG  ContribsTalk 17:55, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Note that Andy has only made eight edits in the last two days (6/24-6/25, up to 18:00 EST), all Lenski-related. He might be AFK and simply not turning editing on, he might be struggling to get his server to work properly (long phone calls to Siteground?), he might be in the basement banging his head against the wall... ħumanUser talk:Human 18:04, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
The last edit by an editor contributor there was Daphnea, 1:11 PM (EDT?). It's a freakin' ghost town there. NorsemanWassail! 18:10, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Let's hope (wink wink, socks AND/OR CP Sysops reading here) that someone fixes it, e-mails Andy about it or, if it is a new policy, make it clear on CP. (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 18:13, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
I can't connect to CP at all. Is the server borked again? --Gulik 02:35, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

I'm rather amazed that the entire edit group consists of only 28 members, including TK and a bunch I don't remember ever seeing edit anything. There's an indication right there of how small the active user list is, if that's all he trusts to edit without vandalizing everything when he's in bed. --Kels 21:42, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

"Punchy" Schlafly[edit]

Oh dear. He's the laughing stock of a significant portion of the internet, his loyal sysops are busy bickering between themselves, and his site is overrun by huns and vandals. Yet, he's still talking about Lenski hiding data. Boy doesn't know when to quit. -- 20:07, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

Well,, the vandals can't do much because "editing" is turned off... and with eight edits over all of yesterday (Monday Tuesday) and today (Tuesday Wednesday), it almost looks as though he has just walked away from it. I did, however, think I heard his Momma calling him in for dinner. And a whippin' ħumanUser talk:Human 20:16, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Deborah seems to to be moving the deckchairs by finally sorting out the categories and Conservative is still editing is pet Atheism article. Seriously if there was a large scale nuclear war he would be sitting in a post apcolypic world still doing that. 20:40, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
I just checked, Schlafly hasn't had a day off from editing Conservapedia for two years. Including two Christmases, new years eve/day, valentines day, may day or Reagan's birthday. I think the poor bastard needs a holiday. Shall we have a collection? Send him somewhere nice, but with muslims, like the Maldives perhaps? -- 20:51, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
This is leading to a question I have been meaning to ask. What does his family do about this? He from what I can see spends about 12 hours a day arguing with people on CP when he is not homeschooling. Doesn't his wife ever want to speak to him or something? I know I keep but I don't think I could go on like he has. 02:58, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
He probably edits while at work at the AASP thing or whatever. NightFlareStill doesn't have a (nonstub) RWW article. 05:04, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Atheism and deceit[edit]

This is quickly moving up the ranking list of CP's weirdest and most idiotic articles ever. If anybody made an article like "Republicans and deceit" or "Christians and deceit", quoting the supposed deceit of just a few individuals, they would get insta-banned. Good thing that atheism is one of those subjects where CP doesn't feel like being fair.

But the real reason I love this article is this sentence from the current version:

The continued use of deceitfulness in relation to the advocacy of atheism has continued by modern evolutionists in relation to their materialistic ideas regarding origins.

Really, you can't make stuff like this up. --Sid 20:49, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

Really? I have almost fully programmed my Kenbot to produce perfect Kenese on any number of topics, at least in respect to Atheism. I even have a "quote searcher" programmed so I can buttress Kenbot's "arguments" with the unwitting statements of unwitting atheist leaders undermining their cause! ħumanUser talk:Human 00:31, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
Is it just me or does that sentence not even mean anything as it's just catchphrases strung together to sound like it's intelligent? Armondikov 06:30, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Irony, Thy Name Is Ed[edit]

I rather like this comment in Andy's rumpus room:

"We like to applaud science's successes, claiming a new discovery nearly every week (!) but paradigm-shaking new theories are frequently resisted bitterly and relentlessly."

Yep. Sometimes they're resisted for, oh, a hundred years plus. --Phentari 21:03, 25 June 2008 (EDT)

I love Bugler's attempt to bait support Andy into doing something stupider more to right this injustice. 21:10, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
My personal favorite is that Ed loves drawing line while ignoring the points.... He speaks about new theories being resisted, but fails to mention who does the resisting.... I've never heard of an Atheist Inquisition.... although it would be amazing SirChuckBCall the FBI 22:02, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
*busts through the door in a black cloak* No one's EVER heard of the Atheist Inquisition! Barikada 23:40, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Our chief weapon is surprise, that's all, surprise..... and ::psst, Nice shiny red uniforms are betters:: SirChuckBCall the FBI 23:45, 25 June 2008 (EDT)
Is that the largly defensive weapon of suprise? 02:59, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
I fancy purple myself. Star of David.png Radioactive afikomen Please ignore all my awful pre-2014 comments. 04:00, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Wheels Falling Off[edit]

I know we have all predictaed the 'last days' of CP many times only to see it ignore all difficultiee, ridicule, etc and carry on. But at the moment it really does seems to be struggling. I see the main problems and symptons at the moment as being...

  1. The SysOps are infighting openly in a way I have not seen before.
  2. Several SysOps have left recently.
  3. It is totally unavailable for large chunks of the day.
  4. It is locked for edits for much of the remaining time.
  5. Even Andy himself is hardly posting.
  6. Extremely negative (even abusive) comments are allowed to stand on talk pages far longer than previously.
  7. They are getting much ridicule from the internet at large.
  8. They were very publically called out by Lenski (PBUH)
  9. They are swamped with trolls and vandals (and not all of them are me!)

Has anyone seen the film 'DownFall'? I know it's wishful thinking and I'm not saying they cannot recover and carry on, but it does seem very wobbley at the moment, more so than I have ever seen it. RedDog 03:54, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

The film Downfall. We may see the downfall of Assfly rather than of all Conservapedia. Proxima Centauri 05:37, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
There was decent amounts of Sysop infighting while TK was around, but you've got a point about the rest of it... Although really, the way Andy drives his blog, it can never go anywhere but down. This is mostly just symptomatic of that, with the Lenski affair possibly helping to some degree by pushing up tensions. UchihaKATON! 03:58, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
The hamster's stopped spinning again I see. I hope they don't go down anytime soon, my little sock has a two-year plan well underway. --PsygremlinWhut? 04:04, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
Two years? That seems very... long term, with respect to Conservapedia. Many didn't even expect it to last this long...
Or was that the joke...? UchihaKATON! 04:18, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

There was something dreadfully "you havent seen the last of me!" with vicious fist shaking" about Andys last post though. The whole "stay tuned" business. I'm guessing he'll show us, everyone, in the end. Ace McWicked 04:41, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

It is just a couple of days that Andy and his appendix, CP have behaved odd. Is there anyone among us who hasn't had off days once in their lifetime? Surely though - don't hate me! - I sorely miss the first TK. He would have known how to handle the situation. (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 04:52, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
It's just been a couple of days that Andy has behaved oddly?? I take issues with that statement! But yeah I know you mean. It does a coincidence though all the points I listed above converging. I accept a large degree of wishful thinking though. RedDog 05:13, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
Care to summarise, Mr McWicked, for us poor souls wot ain't seen CP since yesterday afternoon? Ajkgordon 04:56, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
Conservapedia’s down again. My computer gave a message saying, “ is not set up to establish a connection on port World Wide Web service HTTP with this computer. “ I’d guess Assfly has big problems over Lenski and has shut down the site while he gets advice from people who understand the law better than he does. Proxima Centauri 05:34, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
Would be interesting if the Oscar lawyers (as per above) have just climbed all over him. Maybe we should look for any Disney pics on the site - there's another crowd that doesn't take their images being used without permission lightly.

PsygremlinWhut? 05:59, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Reply to Mr Ajkgordon - Aschy's last post thanked Bugler and mentioned the Lenski business with a chilling prophecy that we should all "stay tuned for further details". Large offensive weapon of gun? Ace McWicked 06:00, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Ta. Ajkgordon 06:06, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

What puzzles me the most about these almost regular downtimes is the complete lack of any official word on them. They handle it just like they handled the introduction of the edit rights: Pretend nothing ever happened, and when enough people complain/ask about it, simply admit that it's that way without further explanation. Really, you'd think that somebody in charge on CP would realize that this is a terribly bad way of handling things. --Sid 06:25, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

But who cares what the little people think? 06:37, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
It popped up in WIGO under a "full and frank explaination", which was, of course, hilarious. It's down for me, which is a shame because some of the new stuff looks like it could be interesting. The whole Lenski thing was badly handled and if it's not the final nail in the coffin it's certainly the first really big one. We'll either see CP stop calling people out or Assfly will just forget it ever happened, get told not to do it, again, do it anyway, again, and have a new arsehole ripped in, again. Or they'll stop being vocal and retreat a little, then slowly wither away. Either with a bang or a whimper, it will end one day. Armondikov 06:39, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
They'll just treat the editors contributors there with the same lack of respect as they always do - the attitude is essentially you're there to a) work for them and b) kowtow to whatever they say. Andy's last response when asked why they'd been down for 5 hours was to say "We're back now." Smarmy git. I wonder when last he went through the list of (unblocked) members and actually took the time to thank them for their contribs. Ok, maybe that's asking too much, but then again, it's hardly Wikipedia with a gazillion editors. Problem is, he's become too focussed on his pet projects, which clearly indicates that it's not and was never meant to be, an encyclopaedia. — Unsigned, by: Some variety of gremlin, I think :) / talk / contribs (sorry - forgot to do that... PsygremlinWhut? 06:52, 26 June 2008 (EDT))
I'm still not convinced that this is bad for CP or that Aschlafly is unhappy with it.
I mean, it was transparently obvious what he was trying to do with Lenski and he got pretty much one of the few responses he was likely to get.
Isn't this just about noise? Driving traffic to his site a small proportion of which will have sympathy with it and join up or become a fee-paying homeschooler?
Am I really the only one to think this here? Ajkgordon 06:45, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
No, I agree. Regardless of the threat, Andy wouldn't have put the reply on CP if he thought it made him look bad (to those who already agree with him, who are, naturally, the only ones who matter). I also think the crashes are completely unrelated -- but I'm still cheering them on. 06:49, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
Tech question: was normal editing reinstated yesterday or did it continue to be limited to those with night editing rights? Did the issue come up on CP? (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 06:56, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
If all these end days talk have thaught me something, its that Conservapedia cannot die as Andy simply is unable to see (or refuses to) that his ship has been sinking since long ago while he's been at his room watching his shiny treasure (his pet articles and page views count) while the rest of the crew runs around doing stupid shit, passengers dropping to the sea to swim back to shore or being thrown by the crew, being attacked by pirates (vandals and prdsts), etc. and will continue even if he has to use diving gear to stay in his ship. It is possible that it reaches the point where literally every editor there is Andy, his goons and a swarm parodists and you can probably say that this counts as being "dead" (under that definition I would say it already is) but Andy simply will never think about shutting his blog down. NightFlareStill doesn't have a (nonstub) RWW article. 07:07, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
It won't die quickly and it'll probably be fairly painful to watch. It's a fairly big ship to sink so it'll probably not be apparent for months and even then, the big names there will deny it to the end. He's driving traffic to the site, yes, and for every (lets say for arguement) 100 hits, there's 1 sympathetic one that joins up to fight the good fight; but there'll be at least 3 or 4 who join up to vandalise or take the piss and plenty more who'll just go back to their own blogs and make a quick passing joke of it. I think his best hope for survival is to ban and burninate and bring in new, even crazier people, Conservapedia: The Next Generation, as it were. Especially since the vast majority of the (not clearly parodist) editors publically think Andy is a tool over the Lenski Affair. Armondikov 08:04, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
Is it still locked against editing? Or am I missing something?--Bobbing up 08:14, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
It's still locked. I'm assuming Andy did it in defense against the wandal rush he caused, though blocking account creation would've made more sense. NightFlareStill doesn't have a (nonstub) RWW article. 08:45, 26 June 2008 (EDT) Update: Not anymore. NightFlareStill doesn't have a (nonstub) RWW article. 08:49, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

It's unlocked now. My little sockie just made an edit. Proxima Centauri 17:22, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Teh End of Days[edit]

Now who am I going to laugh at each day? As much as I despised Andy and his horrid little cronies, I also know I will miss the sense of superiority that I got from reading CP each morning. For god's sake, come on Andy. Get back up man! Suck it up, get out there and soldier on for Christ! There are people counting on you. --Horace 06:52, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

It's the Rapture! CP and all who sail in her have been taken up to paradise! Ajkgordon 07:03, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
This is obviously some new definition of 'paradise' that I haven't come across yet. Eternity with that lot... *shudder* --PsygremlinWhut? 07:20, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
LOL, yeah! Anyway, it'll be back up any minute now. Overnight glitch. Something's crashing on Apache or whatever. Ajkgordon 07:22, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
We may have to face up to a CP-free existence sooner than we thought. Challenging days for RationalWiki. Come on people, there are other whackos out there! Lets make use of CP's breakdowns for other mission-related stuff. I'm working on an astrology scam. Or are most people only here for the lulz?
What I find odd about the CP black-outs is that they are going down overnight. Is Andy just pulling the plug every night as his personal contribution to combatting global warming? Jollyfish.gifGenghisunbelieving 07:46, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
I'm getting three sites worthy of our attention in the Google ads at the bottom of the page - the wonders of context advertising. Silver Sloth 07:50, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
Occam's Razor - it's a glitch that isn't fixed until the hamsters get their breakfast. Ajkgordon 07:53, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
@Genghis: I've been thinking about the issue of new targets for when CP falls apart... how about Answers in Genesis itself? It seems pretty active, and there are plenty of places in the blogosphere where it gets ridiculed -- all the right ingredients?
I think we should start a list for this kind of thing. It's difficult to say when CP might finally burst -- we don't want to be robbed of critical momentum before we know what to do next, do we? 08:00, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Excellent suggestion. I don't see why we couldn't start a WIGO for AiG already. We can have more than one and if people aren't interested they don't have to use it. BadPsychics is an excellent site doing something for people who claim psychic ability for those who are unaware. Sadly there is no shortage of woo-merchents. RedDog 08:03, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

For those who like their lulz with a right wing bent you could always check out Charlie Daniels soapbox It's often quite amsing a red-necky ignorant kind of way. Not a patch on the andychrist though. RedDog 08:05, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
GOOD MORNING WORLD! CP back up. Jollyfish.gifGenghisunbelieving 08:07, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
But still editing limited to those with night editing rights! Argh! (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 08:15, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
AiG is the obvious choice, although it would differ from Conservapedia in two ways that may mean it doesn't work as well. 1) It's not a wiki, there aren't constant updates and bans in the same way, although not a problem, it would be a very different mechanic 2) It's mostly specifically regarding the flood and creation, which is far narrower a view than watching general uber right-wing (or centre-right in the alternative universe) lunancy. It could devolve into, or at least be percieved as, more of an anti-religion thing if it didn't stay focused. Anyway, that's just two possible pitfalls of watching AiG, they may not be as bad as that and are probably outweighed by the postitives. Armondikov 08:11, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
(EC) What did you guys think about WIGOFR? It was fun for the few days we rushed into MP in my opinion. NightFlareStill doesn't have a (nonstub) RWW article. 08:12, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
I thought WIGO4R (as I shall forever call it!) had great potential -- the begining surely was a great moment -- but Metapedia is pretty static. Towards the end, I just felt weird trying to find newsworthy stuff there when the interest was so low. 08:20, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
I only found Metapedia by stumbling across the entry here. The thing is, is that it's not as active as Conservapedia and not quite as blatant about it. Most times you have to look quite hard to find anything overtly ridiculous. Though I may have been looking in the wrong places. Armondikov 08:32, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
(EC) Yeh, only like 3 editors are active there, and they seem to go on Kektklik/Deborah style edit rampages, making the WIGOing itself rather dull. Spoofing the place was a blast though. NightFlareStill doesn't have a (nonstub) RWW article. 08:34, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
No edit rights available, I see. Or is it just me? --PsygremlinWhut? 08:18, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
The edit rights thing seems to have been fixed. Well, I can edit stuff there, at least... Alt 08:43, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
As of right now aditing is switched on. Vandalise to your heart's content. I just burned a sock to test editing and also to see how on-the-ball ther SysOps are at the moment. RedDog 08:45, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
Finally! Back to work now :-D (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 08:49, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
"gayest"Red? SusanG  ContribsTalk 08:52, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
I confess! RedDog 08:56, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
Blocked by THE MAN! SusanG  ContribsTalk 09:02, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

I know I'm quite pleased actually as this is my first block from the Andychrist himself. Yay for me. I'm especially chuffed as my sock was called AndysBro. Nothing gets past you Susan - well spotted! RedDog 09:05, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

I'm still getting the "Internet Explorer cannot display the webpage". But apparently you all are connecting? 09:22, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Yup! SusanG  ContribsTalk 09:26, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
That is terribly unfair. What could be causing me not to be able to connect to just that one webpage? 09:29, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
Restart IE? Clear the cache? Use Firefox instead? (Editor at) CP:no intelligence allowed 09:35, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
If my ip was banned, would that be message I would be getting? 09:49, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
If your IP was banned you would still be able to connect and read - just not edit (I think) RedDog 09:54, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
Theoretically an IP can be blocked from actually accessing the site - it's a MediaWIki thing. However, the chances of Andy actually implementing that would be exceedingly low. There is no benefit in doing so when it is so easy just to block an IP from editing. Try rebooting or resetting your modem/router if all else fails. Jollyfish.gifGenghisunbelieving 10:06, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

In reply to Andy not posting often, he is on vacation. — Unsigned, by: The inside reporter, "Kektlik" / talk / contribs

That would explain a change in his behaviour. But how do you know? RedDog 10:02, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
Kettles, much as I appreciate your willingness to discuss CP stuff with us, I think that's the sort of detail you should keep to yourself -- it verges on the invasive. Chaos. 10:07, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
Kektlik is the presumptive nominee for Andy's "future son-in-law". Jollyfish.gifGenghisunbelieving 10:10, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
(edit conflict) Yes, and taking up an ambiguous position between two warring wikis is not the best way of securing that position. 10:15, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
I just thought it would help to clear up any doubts about the "end of CP". I have toned it down quite a bit with how much I discuss about things. I didn't say where he was, when he left, or when he will return home. — Unsigned, by: Reservation of threeve ("Kektlik") / talk / contribs
You can't stop the end of CP now, foolish Kettlekreature. 10:15, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Actually, it does rather explain things though.--Bobbing up 10:29, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

It does explain some things. But it doesn't explain why his server is even less stable than him. It also doesn't explain all the infighting and lack of support he is getting from other sysops. RedDog 10:34, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Childhood: Andy really should get back to the nursery and stop pretending that he’s grown up Proxima Centauri 07:34, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

Irony Meter *pop*[edit]

[6] Now Andy owes me an irony meter "proven contributors also have editing authority, which you can obtain after establishing a track record of substantive edits." Didn't help HelpJazz, did it? PsygremlinWhut? 09:23, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

I think your Irony Meter might have been defective. That isn't really ironic - he's just lying. BeastmasterGeneral 13:26, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
We should raise money by building and selling robust, well-filtered irony meters, there certainly seems to be demand for them (I see them getting broken all over the place), and we have a good test bench for them. At the very least, they should be logarithmic and have a good protection circuit... ħumanUser talk:Human 16:14, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

Short (out of place) rant[edit]

Andy Schlafly makes me so mad. What right has he, any more than anyone else in the United States, to bludgeon a respected scientist and demand answers to questions which display a total lack of comprehension?

I have now to avoid any contact with Lenski related pages over there as the instructions on my meds warn against blood pressure related activities (actually not, but the doc did intimate as much).

He constantly goes over old ground and demands data that he wouldn't be able to do anything with and snipes at Zachary Blount (who has become the main target for some reason) with the same ignorance.

Nowhere has he expressed any appreciation for the attention (misplaced IMHO) given to him by Lenski but rather taken it as his due. Why Lenski took the trouble to reply to either of his rude and ignorant communications is beyond me but he should be accorded some thanks for it.

The latest "goal" question is barmy!

Oh yes, he's found a new friend one Larry Farma with an incomprehensible blog

I just ...

I mean ... Grrrrr.

Sorry SusanG  ContribsTalk 19:55, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

and he disappeared the talk page thus taking Lenski's second reply out of context. Exasperate me!Sheesh!Not the most impressive contributor here 20:04, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
He's archived it (but there appears to be about 400 chars short) SusanG  ContribsTalk 20:12, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Oh & they're playing hard to get again (I can't access 'em) SusanG  ContribsTalk 20:12, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

I love how Assfly jumps on this Larry's claim that the co-author of Lenski's paper is dodging questions about the goal of the project, simply so he can again demand all Lenski's data, even though Lenski has given him instructions on where to get it already. The only problem is that, if he read Larry's blog given in the claim, and the original article (or rather, the comments to it), also given in the claim, he would see that Zachary Blount does, in fact, answer the questions posed, and directs this Larry guy to where he can get the answers in detail. Zmidponk 20:18, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

He's now trying to insinuate that the novel E. coli strain was somehow engineered. Bejesus himself could have a quiet word with Andy on this one and he still wouldn't listen. Our hero'd probably have the chutzpah to tell the Son of Man that He wasn't being a real Christian and keep referring Him back to Genesis. --Robledo 21:10, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
The discussion isn't actually going so well for him now. Poor Larry!--Tom Moorefiat justitia ruat coelum 16:00, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

For the record Lary Fafarman has been slinking around the ID/Evolution/Creation discussion for years now, frequent sitings at all the major venues (blogs, forums, etc.) he is just trying to latch on to the CP flak traffic for his latest trolling. tmtoulouse provoke 21:26, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Larry's been given "Edit" rights by Andy. SusanG  ContribsTalk 16:06, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
Larry's even admitted that CP is getting more hits & that's why he's there: "my own blog gets only about 50 visits per day. In contrast, this talk page is getting thousands of visits per day". SusanG  ContribsTalk 19:57, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
Did he give up on the meritocracy facade or is he still maintaining it bipolar style? NightFlareStill doesn't have a (nonstub) RWW article. 19:33, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

Andy's concept of archiving[edit]

Anyone else notice that the diff chain breaks at the point where teh assfly "archives" the Lenski talk page? And that he doesn't create a link to said "archive"? Did he even create one? ħumanUser talk:Human 21:45, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Ah, ok: is where he hid it. ħumanUser talk:Human 21:46, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
I'm suprised it's just hidden. I was putting money on CP "going down" for a day and then coming back up with all mention of Lenski removed and anyone who brings it up going the way of those who dare mention the FBI. Though there's still time for me to win that one. :P Armondikov 06:48, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
He has linked but within the body of the page. Kajagoogoo removed a link someone put at the top of the page. SusanG  ContribsTalk 07:00, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

Cut from According To[edit]

I said I was gonna put this on WIGO but I don't think it's really worth it. Anyone who wants to, feel free. ħumanUser talk:Human 21:18, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Any reason why this was removed from According To? I thought you guys would be interested, and the rush of hits I've head suggests I was right. I wouldn't normally self-publicize quite so shamelessly, but I thought it was a result worth getting out there. The Lay Scientist 21:47, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Not WIGO but a nice analysis. It's worthy of comment (IMHO) but not noteworthy enough. Not "According to" but "WIGO" if anything. SusanG  ContribsTalk 21:54, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
The reason was that "according to" is not supposed to have CP stuff on it - it says that in the lead in to where you edited to insert it. So I copied it here. And, uh, putting a link to your blog on our front page is a bit shameless. Feel free, however, to write an article in the CP namespace with similar content - especially if you update it over time a bit to add even more context. ħumanUser talk:Human 21:58, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Ah, okay, I missed that non-CP bit that was in bold at the top :| As for shameless, well it's a requirement of blogging. The Lay Scientist 22:05, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

For what its worth, WIGO has 50% more page than the main page. Take that with a 'edit vs static' page and a 'front page vs click or two down' page. Being sent off to WIGO is certainly nothing to be disappointed about. --Shagie 22:30, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
As a quick question, was using "acolytes" intentional in light of the Lenski affair? :P Armondikov 06:43, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
Lol, yes, it was, although I'm not sure what the best name to use is. I liked "Acolytes", and it's easier to type than "Conservapedians". I also thought of "Conservapedes" or the dodgier "Conservapedos". The trouble with "Acolytes" is that it implies that they're all pulling together, but clearly they're not. Instead they're more like a chaotic herd running in all sorts of directions when startled by the loud noise of rationality. I need a name that describes that... The Lay Scientist 07:04, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
"Conservastampede". :nods: --AKjeldsenPotential fundamentalist! 07:16, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
I was thinking about comparing Conservapedia's reach with an even simpler task than using Alexa and trying to compensate for the fact that it's a wiki. If you type it into Facebook, you get about 10 or so groups. One of which is "pro" Conservapedia (although I reckon it's a Poe judging by the language used on it) the rest are very much pure mockery. The average membership barely exceeds 50 people. That's a pretty shockingly low number of people who are concerned about it if it was as massive as they claim. So, it's obviously not having that much effect. The only reason I think people I know are even aware of it is because I occaisionaly flag up links from here and CP for people to laugh at. Armondikov 15:41, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
That's not a bad idea - another one of course might be to look at Technorati reactions - positive vs. negative. Across several metric like that you might get a good idea of what proportion of their unique visitors are p***-taker... The Lay Scientist 16:27, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

talk page[edit]

I think we should capture the archived Lenski talk from CP before it's memory-holed. 22:08, 26 June 2008 (EDT) Ace McWicked

It's worse than that - the "archive" is full of holes from previous deletions. Even as we speak, say, since the archiving, major chunks have been deleted from the talk page. Oh, yes, go ahead and grab a copy of the archive, of course. I think Trent is working on getting the actual full history of the all the edits to the talk page copied somehow (actually, he has it, is just having trouble loading it up on RW). ħumanUser talk:Human 22:12, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
I have several copies of the page myself -- preserving both the main discussion and some things that were deleted -- but it's a long way from complete. Nonetheless, it might come in handy if TalkLenski is deleted.
Trent's way sounds better, though :) 22:47, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Excellent. We MUST have FULL records. Cant afford to be clueless these days. 22:51, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Okay, okay, I will get back to it......Linus was suppose to figure it out.... tmtoulouse provoke 22:54, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
Fine, Trent, be that way. :) I'll work on it. --λινυσ() 15:03, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

Meanwhile, PJR turns on his masteronce more 22:59, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, that was sweet. Well done PJR. In terms of simple wiki protocol, which apparently some others are trying to slirk around. ħumanUser talk:Human 23:04, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
PJR seems to be doing that a lot lately. He's most certainly the next to go (but that might bring Croc back).

Andy is going to be pissed when he realizes PJR is just a Young Earth Liberal. That scallywag.. Ace McWicked 07:07, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

Just found this which makes for interesting reading (sorry if it's been dug up before). It seems PJR wasn't too enamoured with Andy's blog at the outset but seems to have been swayed (maybe the sysopship had something to do with it). Mewonders if the old doubts aren't starting to creep up again. --PsygremlinWhut? 09:11, 27 June 2008 (EDT)

PJR just wants a clean, well-lighted place to edit his fables. 09:35, 27 June 2008 (EDT)