Conservapedia talk:What is going on at CP?/Archive147

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Weather ${\displaystyle \neq }$ climate Andy!

Andy still doesn't get the difference between weather & climateimg. This message brought to you by: respondand honey 03:40, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, their article might be confusing him a bit. Except maybe the part by Human, it seems to say "climate = temperature + rain". ~ Kupochama[1][2] 04:05, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Seattle set a record temperature last week of 102 F. Oh, and thanks for the shout out! ħuman 04:24, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Whereas I, a person who loves cool weather and can't stand the heat, is leaving New York for Seattle on Monday. FML. DickTurpis (talk) 11:31, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
From WP:
Climate encompasses the statistics of temperature, humidity, atmospheric pressure, wind, rainfall, atmospheric particle count and numerous other meteorological elements in a given region over long periods of time.- WP's article on Climate
(I changed the emphasis) Now look at Conservapedia:Schlafly Statistics. now we just derived something profound, as the result of Conservapedia's Law. [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 06:11, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Climate is what you expect. Weather is what you get. - π 06:16, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Exactly. Speaking as a New Englander, all we expect is cold in winter and hot in summer, and that doesn't always happen either. Cf: this "summer". ħuman 06:35, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
I think I remember my geography teacher some 40 odd years ago said that climate is the meteorological conditions of 30 years or more, weather is the meteorological conditions of periods of less than two or three years. An analogy would be rising sea-levels with someone pointing to a low spring tide as evidence against it. Also global warming does not necessarily mean that everwhere gets gets hotter. If the Earth's weather systems were that simple meteorologists would not need some of the world largest computers to model them. ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 07:31, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Going back to Andy's "coldest July in Manitoba", he forgot to mention July was the wettest month on record (not just wettest July) in Ontario, and in the meantime Vancouver and area is in the grip of a severe heat wave. Say, doesn't GW predict extreme weather conditions or something? --Kels (talk) 19:33, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

In reply to Larron's rhetorical question...

Turns out the last seven days CP didn't banhammer anyone were Jan 20 through Jan 26. WTF? Were they offline that week? (Assuming they were, the last day they didn't banhammer anyone while reachable was Mar 4 2007.) You suck. I hate you. 08:13, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that was when the site crashed and they lost a week's worth of edits, presumably also a week's worth if blocks if it was up long enough for anyone to edit. ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 08:46, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
That was the week that never was. Auld Nick (talk) 09:20, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
That week did result in the loss of a week of blocks: it unblocked me. Broccoli (talk) 11:02, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
And it unblocked MikeSalter, who himself had blocking powers, thus leading to the spree. Aboriginal Noise What the hell is that thing? 15:58, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Mwahaha. Thanks guys. I still have much to learn. You suck. I hate you. 05:48, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Wow Andy... just wow.

So, you're confronted with the cluster fuck that is neo-Taino and your only response is to de-wikify? What happened to, you know, the manual of style, or even article creation for that matter? Giving up so soon? Are you tired of having JPratt's nose jammed firmly up your ass? Has TK's ongoing treachery finally worn you down? People want to know. --PsyGremlinWhut? 11:25, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

A quick check on WP shows that the literature list is copied wholesale from the wp:Neo-Taino_nations#References and CP's entry is basically a minor paraphrase of WP. However, WP's article is not much better than CP's - in fact for WP it is a steaming pile of crap. It has duplicate sections headings with repeated sentences and needs a radical workover. The references section is just a list of books with no link from the article text, and references within the article are all directly to external links. ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 11:49, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
You're welcome, OscarJ. --PsyGremlinWhut? 11:58, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

JPratt - the early daze

Been reading up on this mental midget's CP contributions. I'm amazed that he's been there almost from day 1, and yet he was such a non-entity until Obama came along. Reading his early efforts are a laugh, especially when you take into account you're reading the work of a 30-something businessman and not a 10-year old. Love it when things like "Animals do it? WTF? So it is ok for humans?" and "Saddam was a dumb ass" slip in. (Not to mention the classic "fails at life" block.)

His opening to this debate, is worth repeating. Whee... going to be fun reading up on this guy.

All the talk of global Warming is absolutely mind numbing. Out of nowhere, this science is out to scare us all. The fact remains, the Global Warming scientists believe that humans must take the necessary steps to avoid a meltdown. It is ignorant to think humans can save the planet. God created this world, God alone can save this world from ourselves. Plus, do these scientists understand the ramificaions of their sales pitch? The people of Earth would have to give up eveything in order to succeed. By everything I mean combustion engines, factories, electricity, all meat, dairy, etc.

--PsyGremlinWhut? 16:23, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

It's notable how CP attracts these, as you say, mental midgets. Kendoll and JPatt certainly fall in to the arrested development category. Then there's Ed, who perhaps could be classified as "bless him, he's trying." Since aSoK started, I've also realised how stunted PJR is in that department, too. Then there's the sociopaths and weirdos, TK, RobS, Daniel1212, the KAL007 nutter. It's a veritable freak show. Of the regulars, really only Karajou and Andy come of as people who don't drool and mumble to themselves. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 17:16, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
I think Rob is stupid (sorry, but hey, even a lot of my best friends are), opinionated and impressionable. I don't think he's in the same class as Andy, Daniel, FOIA, Bert, Ken, etc. Those mofos are crazy. I might put him in with Brad, Phil, Dean, Ed (barring having small children) and the Swab. People I could probably be neighbors with, just with a laundry list of things not to talk about. JPatt is a toss up. I'll never be sure about Terry. The guy could be a genius (or maybe an artist of sorts) or just plain dangerous. — Signed, by: Neveruse513 / Talk / Block 20:16, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Actually, I'd class Rob in with FOIA and Daniel, in that they're basically monomaniacs. Rob's got his communists and conspiracies, and will hammer that until the day he dies, I'm sure. Very much the same way FOIA never varies from his relentless picking at the airline disaster, or Daniel and his scripture-riddled volumes of anti-homosex. Ken's not all that different, but he's got a unique (rancid) flavour all his own. --Kels (talk) 20:29, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Just a slight quibble Kels, FOIA is the Alger Hiss monomaniac, BertSchlossberg is the KAL 007 guy. ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 20:50, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Oh, I forgot JM. He seems kind of nice in comparison with the others. Cultured even. I've no idea what he gets out of CP. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 21:02, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Argh, I should have known. But the point still stands, I can easily imagine any one of them sitting on the floor, files of documents, shoeboxes of newspaper clippings, maybe lengths of coloured thread stretched between them so chart the connections, like some bizarre, paranoid mandala. What we see on CP are the multi-layered conspiracy theories extruded into 2-D space. --Kels (talk) 21:10, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
I can't quibble with that! ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 21:16, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

And another one bites the dust...

Tk's now blocked the Anti-DDT Campaign five hours after Ed Poor creates it. Parodist, parodist, parodist! SJ Debaser 18:56, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Pfft, any rational human being would lock all important[citation needed] wiki articles. If they didn't, strangers could just walk right in and edit them. ~ Kupochama[1][2] 20:21, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

lol Andy

http://conservapedia.com/index.php?title=King_James_Bible&curid=5702&diff=687938&oldid=687932 Can't think of anything witty...been Ace'ing all this fine Saturday...aside, that is very interesting, although completely unsourced. — Signed, by: Neveruse513 / Talk / Block 20:27, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Looks like the KJV is actually a liberal version of the Bible because (Shock Horror!) it uses British spellings. ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 20:58, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

TK loves his Pr0n

First he requests several links to supposed softcore links and now this. I guess he has some sort of addiction. TK, may I recommend this support group. Kettle Kin (Version 2.0) 04:35, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

If there is actually anyone who is addicted to smut, I must consider them rather strange; the quality of the acting in that stuff almost turns it into comedy. The "XXXChurch" stuff is also comedy. ListenerXTalkerX 05:33, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
On the XXXChurch forums a year ago, there was a chick on there who was addicted to it, but also she claimed that she did commissions for Yiff (as her main source of income). Kettle Kin (Version 2.0) 05:43, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Who is "Yiff"? ListenerXTalkerX 05:45, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
If you don't already know, then it's best you never find out. Kettle Kin (Version 2.0) 06:02, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Oh, now I'm intrigued too!!! SJ Debaser 11:55, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Keeping in mind that with a lot of artists, Yiff actually is comedy. (whatever you do, don't Google "Doug Winger". You may not recover.) --Kels (talk) 15:51, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
I know it's hard to keep from Googling something that someone specifically says not to, but do not do it. I just did and I read a story that I didn't need to know existed. --PitchBlackMind (talk) 16:07, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Keep in mind though, that Winger's stuff was done primarily for laughs (he got really good at adding pithy comments by his signature) as a break from his more serious job as a commercial artist. It's the people what take it seriously that you've gotta worry 'bout. --Kels (talk) 16:43, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
but,but.. I love Winger's stuff. Kettle Kin (Version 2.0) 17:11, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Oh, so do I (well, except the really insane inflation stuff). He's a riot, and he developed a really tight style. I'd say for stuff that actually appeals to me of the current artists, KaeMantis is far and away the best, Max Blackrabbit's got a good style even though I don't care for ZigZag particularly (he also lives only a couple of blocks from a good friend of mine), and while DarkNek0gami is often a bit extreme for my tastes, he does some really good stuff at times. Or is that saying too much? Oh, and I recommend P_moss, she's got a really wide range of stuff she does. She did a lovely take on an old absinthe ad recently that's really lovely. And if you know who any of those people are...well, good for you! --Kels (talk) 17:34, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

I had a look at that suport group and, well they wrote, "If you are reading this, either you, or someone you love, has probably seen it today." [1]
"No, I thought, that doesn't apply to me." Well I have spend just a little bit of time looking at photos of Rodin's masterpiece, The Thinker. He's not very well endowed, Is He? But he's got a really neat bottom. Contemplating those images got me rather sexy so I went straight from the Thinker to The Kiss. Is that what the website's about. They make you feel sexy then if you're a fundy Christian you feel guilty and you're scared shitless that you'll burn eternally in Hell. So you give them more money than you can afford and hope they can "cure you"? Proxima Centauri (talk) 16:25, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

You post this as I'm closely (verrrrry closely) examining photographs of Bianca Beauchamp. Art, indeed! --Kels (talk) 16:36, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Yuck. Not my type at all. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 16:45, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Mine either, to be honest, it's in service of a present for a friend. She's a big fan. --Kels (talk) 19:08, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Boobs are too big for my tastesand too fake, but her hair is nice. Kettle Kin (Version 2.0) 08:39, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Was the skin of the late Michael Jackson as blotchie as that? Proxima Centauri (talk)

From what I gather, that pic is with some degree of cover-up. --Kels (talk) 19:10, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Franken in diapers

Terry Koeckritz kinda made me laugh here.

He wants a conservative source to debunk conservative propaganda. Why would a conservative debunk conservative propaganda? They wouldn't. So it gets a free ride on CP. Even the swabbie seems to want it down. TK is playing this one like a pro, allowing the most puerile, absurd propaganda to muck the place up. Hat's off, Terry. Well done. — Signed, by: Neveruse513 / Talk / Block 19:12, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

I would post this on CP, but I like having my socks stay under cover (or do I TK.... Let your paranoia wash over you) so I'll post this here. How about this idiot? He's not what you could call a raging liberal and even he doesn't argue the photo is real. Have fun, ya Jackass. SirChuckBI brake for Schukky 20:00, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
I don't see why he would allow it. It's simply not credible by his inscrutable standards. — Signed, by: Neveruse513 / Talk / Block 20:16, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
TK has standards?? StarFish (talk) 20:36, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
...touché. — Signed, by: Neveruse513 / Talk / Block 20:55, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Swabbie? What's that? Kettle Kin (Version 2.0) 05:45, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Grunt in the Navy. Main job is swabbing the deck, between rum-binges, sodomizations, and lashings. It's all about tradition. ħuman 05:49, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Ooops. Uhh.. well, does that mean TK has a new "yes man"? Kettle Kin (Version 2.0) 06:27, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
The "swabbie" in question is probably Karajou, career Navy man. ħuman 06:31, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
To be excruciatingly fair, there _are_ conservatives who still try to be reality-based. There's just not many left in the Republican Party. --Gulik (talk) 04:11, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Ed Poor stub generator

after staring blankly at this for a minute, I'm wondering how hard such a thing would be to cobble together. Megaten (talk) 14:37, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

eel is/was a eel that neutered the eel. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 14:49, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Ha! I'm User 188... things like categories are Somebody Else's Problem. Now, here's a writing assignment for you - make my contribution look like it wasn't submitted by a retarded meerkat. --PsyGremlinWhut? 14:53, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Such a shame that Jaques Cousteau is dead. When will CP catch up? I guess Ed is just live-blogging some old documentary on the Nat Geo channel. ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 16:26, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Definitely live-blogging it in light of his second edit. Although they seem to have de-stubbed it now. d hominem 14:22, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
The entire thing seems fairly typical. TK reverts a fairly decent attempt at expanding it. Ed Poor defends it. Of course, TK was a complete and utter c*nt about it as per usual. d hominem 14:27, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Boring, but TK strikes again

After accusing Oscar of socking with a proxy, TK removes references to aSK on his user page! Way to go TK alienate the true believers. This message brought to you by: respondand honey 00:00, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

I love it. TK reverts his edits to the neo-Taino disaster, then claims it's because he's "inserting false information and lies". Oscar I know you read us, but how much more proof do you need of what a complete troll TK is? All he had to do was read your edits. Enjoy working on ASoK, because your days are numbered on CP. --PsyGremlinWhut? 09:40, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Go Ken!

Wow! 32 edits (and counting) in order to put this word salad up on the mainpage. Hot on the heels on another 16-edit rampage. Ken, please, use the flippin' preview button. More edits do not equal higher Google rankings, they just make you - an administrator who should know how Andy's blog wiki works by now - look incompetent. --PsyGremlinWhut? 10:54, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Hey Ken! The grammatically correct punctuation is "You're going to destroy my presidency...", and all the Google items that you cite have it that way. Please fix. C'mon Ken! Give us another 32! Gauss (talk) 14:17, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Why don't they just come out and say outright that they want him assassinated for being a black communist? Wait, have they? I've lost track. d hominem 14:20, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
With DeanS largely confining himself to a "trimming to archive", I am starting to like what Ken is doing with MainPageRight. I really have high expectations of him.  Lily Inspirate me. 15:20, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
It's amazing that they can whine about Obama putting healthcare reform in terms of how it'll affect his presidency, yet on the same goddamn page they've got "Obamapoleon" and the Waterloo comment from Jim DeMint! The sheer duplicity of these people, the ability to believe one thing and then the complete bloody opposite the moment it becomes convenient at will just doesn't stop surprising me. Bil08 (talk) 15:24, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
What a shame! TK has downsized Ken's pics on MPR.  Lily Inspirate me. 22:17, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Teh Assfy saying how good Conpedia is

Hey Ken, what was supposed to happen in February? I don't think it happened.

Here it is on You tube Proxima Centauri (talk) 18:26, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Er, that really is rather old hat now, PC. It was well covered here four months ago.  Lily Inspirate me. 18:34, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
I thought it was farther than 4 months ago. I spy with my little eye: StevenM, SharonS, PhyllisS, BenjaminS, Aquacadet, and a few others whose usernames I can't recall. Kettle Kin (Version 2.0) 19:49, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
This thing is more like over two years old, isn't it? The CBC original might have an approximately useful date? ħuman 21:41, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Okay, at least 15 months old (May 21, 2008).
(EC)It's definitely not more than 2 years old, because I remember when PhyllisS requested that I don't sit in on one of the classes due to "there's going to be some people taping the class"--they didn't want any anti-regulars coming. Kettle Kin (Version 2.0) 21:44, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
That video would have been much better with a dissenter on it. - π 22:36, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
I got my years muddled. The original link that PC posted is March 2009. Sorry the past is one big blur for me nowadays.  Lily Inspirate me. 21:47, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
thanks for fixing my comment. Kettle Kin (Version 2.0) 21:49, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
According to the timeline, it was on the frontpage on CP in May 2008. Andy posted news of the reporter visiting in November 2007. - π 22:31, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
The "original" (PC) link is to the copy Ken posted in the early days of Operation Runny Bottom. ħuman 22:38, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
I miss Ken's OPERATIONS. It's time to goad him into putting on a new one. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 23:27, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
It couldn't have been November 2007, because I had just started dating PhyllisS at the end of November. I think it was early 2008.. wish I had kept some of my old emails right about now. Kettle Kin (Version 2.0) 23:38, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
29th of November according to the timeline. Link is broken from when Andy deleted the template when he left a smutty comment in the edit summary. I wish we had a screenshot of that (the smutty comment), I didn't get to see it. 192.43.227.18 02:42, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Kekeklik, you dated Phyllis the young? that would be something fascinating to know about. [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 05:29, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
For some considerable time. Think you might find more by checking his talk page archives? This message brought to you by: respondand honey 05:38, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, where have you been, K/T? ħuman 05:39, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Despite the fact he edits like you and me he has only been here since April. - π 05:40, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
True, but don't the noobs ever look into the history? Oh well... haha... ħuman 05:48, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
I dated her for about 9 months. Ended up buying the "anniversary gift" in advance (still have it. in my closet. under some stuff. collecting dust). She dumped for miscellaneous reasons. I met my fiancée in the class I originally enrolled in to be with PhyllisS. Now she [PCS] won't really talk to me. I hope I get invited to a Cp dinner when I become a sysop in 18 months. xD
Where have I been? Are talking about here or on Cp? I was a numerable amount of people on Cp: Liberal9188, HHSFake, Kektklik/NathanG, JonathanG (got special permission to return), Over9k, IdetA, 7K, and my current account. (joking about the last bit, my IP range is still blocked) Kettle Kin (Version 2.0) 06:59, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for the confusionthere, kettleticket. By "K/T" I mean the user K61824 who signs used to sign as Theih (sp?). Also, I might mean the Cretacious/Tertiary boundary extinction event... ħuman 19:27, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Planet of the Apes Che Chevara

Probably old news given the extended time ago the video was, but I just noticed three seconds in there's a guy with a green t-shirt with Che Chevara on it. Wonder how Andy reacted. SJ Debaser 11:07, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

If I remember, wasn't the Che shirt an antiChe shirt? (not looking myself - can't stomach it again) This message brought to you by: respondand honey 11:24, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Didn't think of that actually - would make more sense given that Andy would probably give the poor kid an exorcism if he was wearing a Chevara T shirt. SJ Debaser 11:41, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Or he'd just beat the hell out of him. Wiggles (talk) 17:13, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Look carefully, Che's face on that shirt has one of those red circles around it with a red diagonal stripe across it. ħuman 19:29, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Eternity mystery

Andy argues: "The Greek words for eternity, "aion" and "aionios", lack the full Christian meaning also...." in other words, his mystery can be reduced to "Did the Christian sense of the term "eternity" (whatever that may be) originate with Christianity?". Way to go, Andy. Brilliant. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 00:46, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Thats how I read it also. The real question is "Where was eternity before it was confined between Andy's ears?" Ace McWickedModel 500 00:52, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Its unfortunate that because of TK's blocking habit we'll miss out on the major laughs which always stem from Andy having to defend his crazy ideas. One could state that in Ancient Greek mythology the guy who stole fire from Prometheus was destined to spend eternity strapped to a rock and having his body pecked at by eagles. Each day he'd wake and his body would be intact again. Sounds like hell/eternity to me. Ace McWickedModel 500 01:08, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
I would, but the thing is, I'm going to wait until my account matures a few weeks. TK only welcomed me within the past few days. Kettle Kin (Version 2.0) 02:07, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
The sheer ridiculousness of the 'mystery' is in the fact that Andy wonders why a centuries old book doesn't use a word as we understand it today....hmmmmmm Jammy (talk) 02:27, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
I added it to the "cocoa edit" page, I thought it seemly. Andy Schlafly is insane. ħuman 04:23, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
I love that he labels it a mystery, but in the first edit comment calls it a revelation.--PitchBlackMind (talk) 04:48, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
After the "Jesus invented comedy" thing, I can't help but think this one is just Andy trolling for liberal rebuttals. Maybe he hasn't been feeling persecuted enough lately. ~ Kupochama[1][2] 04:55, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Too bad for him TK's blocked reality. Andy's gonna get lonely and frustrated without any reactions to his pearls of wisdom. --Kels (talk) 04:57, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
That's what I clicked "edit" to say, pretty much. Since he hired the goon to protect him, there're (!) no winds in any sails for him to deflate. Or defecate. Or wrap around as a necklace.ħuman 05:00, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Wait a year my friend.. You'll see me again. (when I get my new lappy). Kettle Kin (Version 2.0) 07:02, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I just love these ones. Andy pulls a completely unsourced, unprovable, unfalsifiable, and ill-defined statement out of his ass and creates an article about it. Then, he defends it as if his life depended on it, and everyone who criticises his new pet will be called a liberal. Illogical conclusions will be drawn, people will be accused of liberalism and talk-talk-talking. Then, a few days later, all will be forgotten and the article will slowly rot away to nothing. Life goes on. Etc 11:12, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Articles like that are a good thing to go along in a few months time and add too, especially if no pages link there. Parody and mockery of Andy sits there unnoticed for years on an article he defended like it was his child when he created it. The real fun is had when a sysop comes to wikify or cats it on some binge and don't even read it properly to notice. - π 11:44, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

OscarJ on the references:The one by Sielaff similarly claims that aion or the Hebrew word olam used in the Old Testament didn't originally signify something eternal but that Christians borrowed this concept from the Greek and Babylonian pagan religions which is exactly the opposite of what the article states.

Dear Oscar, the references are only there to make the article look more scholarly. You aren't expected to check them out! larronsicut fur in nocte 12:08, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

As far as I can see the debate is over whether - to take an instance I'm personally interested in - my sister, who died age six, will spend eternity in torment of just a very long time. Silver Sloth (talk) 12:30, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Did electronics exist before Jesus? I think not, you Godless commies! Jimaginator (talk) 14:02, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

ASchlafly: Good points, but ones that suggest how more research will enlighten this mystery. I'll research further, and hope you do likewise

WTF? The only mystery: How can a single man be so stupid... larronsicut fur in nocte 14:06, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. Can God make a man so stupid, that even He can't understand him? Jimaginator (talk) 14:33, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Look up Biker, Dave Matthews Band, and State Secrets Doctrine on Conservapedia.com...

Since Conservapedia is the "Trustworthy Encyclopedia", these things simply must not exist.— Unsigned, by: BillO / talk / contribs

Andy's edit summary actually sums it up perfectly: "good points, but ...". "But" what, Andy? Oh, you just want other, less good, points. Etc 15:36, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
@BillO - the first rule of Conservapedia is you don't talk about articles on Conservapedia. All three of those you just mentioned were mysteriously disappeared by someone. Try it again! 16:08, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Who the fuck was Aristotle? Rather, how can I misinterpret his arguments for eternity as not fitting in with my misconceptions? Can I simply ignore him altogether? — Signed, by: Neveruse513 / Talk / Block 17:09, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Anger With a Tinge of Pity

Moved to Debate:How mainstream is the religious right? at 01:59, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Random thought

If Andy came to his senses and realised what TK has done to the wiki, could he sue him? That would be comedy gold... Evil evil Hoover! 18:25, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

You can sue anybody for anything; doesn't mean you're gonna win, though. I do agree, that would be comedy gold, but we'd miss most of it, as it would be contained in court documents and phone calls we'd have no access to, sadly. Z3rotalk 18:29, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Andy would have to sue himself for negligence... and technically TK hasn't really done anything that Andy and the other sysops haven't already done - he's just been very, very good at doing it. --PsyGremlinWhut? 18:40, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
It'd be hilarious to hear Andy report TK to the FBI. "There's this guy that I made a sysop on my wiki, and I don't like the things he's done!" - Lardashe
I know Andy waved the threat of legal action at TK when he exposed the SDG to all and sundry - but that was more for revealing personal information that for betraying his trust. --PsyGremlinArnold J Rimmer lookalike winner 1998 19:04, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Unfortunately, you can't sue someone for Discrimination over the Internet.. like being barred from creating an account at Cp because you are GLBT. >.> Kettle Kin (Version 2.0) 21:00, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
For this to happen, Andy would have to sniff out deceit. TK would have to be outted as a liberal for this to work--Tabris (talk) 01:22, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Oooooooohhhhhhh

TK was thinking about it... EddyP (talk) 18:28, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I saw that... creepy. he probably doesn't like the shrinking "backstabbing below" list. Also, I see Interiot, who TK "retired" has now been deleted. However, even TK would be hard-pressed to find a reason to block CPalmer. (I also like how you now need "authorisation" to create categories, or Terry deletes them.) PsyGremlinWhut? 18:40, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
What is this "reason" you speak of? TK blocks because TK wants to block. --Gulik (talk) 19:10, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
This is WIGO material isn't it? 1) Respected editor points out how useful material in an edit history was. 2) TK blocks respected editor. 3) TK deletes edit history from which respected editor got the material. 4) TK realises that's too much even for him. SuspectedReplicant (talk) 18:41, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm glad I saved part of Interiot's user page on my lappy. He had a lot of useful links on his page. Kettle Kin (Version 2.0) 20:48, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

"Fireflight"

Why am I suddenly hoping that these guys never get pilot licenses?

Oh, here's why. --transResident Transfanform! 18:35, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

What has this to do with CP? Evil evil Hoover! 18:38, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
The Christian band Andy is exalting in one of the links is called Fireflight. --transResident Transfanform! 18:48, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
I wonder if they have Mr. Lew Siffer for a manager. ListenerXTalkerX 18:52, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

'Smoking Gun' WIGO

I was going to say that it would be interesting to see how long it took for the Main Page article to be removed. But based on previous history, it'll probably be accepted as canon and added to the main Obama article. The fact is that the document has already been widely exposed as a fake, and not a very good one at that. There are suspicions that it was created precisely for the purpose of exposing gullible anti-Obama fundamentalists and so-called 'birthers'. I knew this nearly 12 hours ago. Nice to see that it takes CP awhile to catch up. Worm (t | c) 19:11, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Is this the same one that has been proven fake? I knew there was a really crappy forgery that got debunked, but I thought this was a new one.... SirChuckBI brake for Schukky 21:42, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
I think this is a different one, but still an obvious forgery. It's quite laughable, really: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/2/761144/-Debunking-the-unbearably-stupid . Also, it turns out that Orly Taitz was born in Kenya: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/3/14257/60231
For me the clincher that the Kenyan birth certificate is a forgery is in the price. At the top of the page it says 7s 6d which old Brits will know is seven shillings and sixpence. However, at that time Kenya used the East African Shilling (later succeeded by the Kenyan shilling) which was was never divided into 12 pence like Britain, it was divided into 100 cents so the price should have been 7s 50c (if that is the correct cost). ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 22:45, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
My first clue that something would be amiss was the excellent quality of the paper. Then I saw that the form included his mothers former name, which made no sense to me. Why would they care what his mother used to be called? The form would be filed under his name, not hers. SirChuckBI brake for Schukky 22:56, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

On an unrelated note, how often does CP link to WND? Is it just now they have join forces? [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 23:10, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

All the time - WND is listed as a reliable and good conservative source on the "news project" page, IIRC. ħuman 23:29, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
This latest crap by Orly Taitz is hilarious. They beat on endlessly about him releasing the original birth certificate, compelete with the doctors signature, but when a poor quality Kenyan one surfaces with the same amount of information as his high quality US one, it is hailed as the smoking gun. Birthers are funny. - π 23:56, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

I trust wnd to just pretend all this never happened, just like with the WMD business and the "criticising the president is treason" meme. Their poll suggests that the sizeable portion of their readers who have doubts about the certificate will continue believing and just wait about for some more propaganda to mouth. Meanwhile Wnd acknowledges that Glenn Beck has called out this bull, but devote nearly all their article on his statements to some other crap he said about Obama Czars. Just another ordinary day for US Christian Conservatism, but I don't see anyone yawning. Bil08 (talk) 00:31, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

execution WIGO

Come on, people, this is like the DeanS thing all over again. Don't provoke the sociopathic inhumane psychopath that is TK, especially not by following suit. Don't take the bait. Just ignore him. Kalliumtalk 03:12, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

P.S. And vote it down... Kalliumtalk 03:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
I suppose it was rather ill-advised; I will take it out. ListenerXTalkerX 03:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Are you now or have you ever been ...

See Rob's really showing his McCarthyite credentialsimg. This message brought to you by: respondand honey 01:00, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

That's because Communism is so bad that even if you've merely read Marx and failed to preach how horrible he was in the public square, then not only you, your family, and your co-workers, but the entire population of your hometown and everyone they'd ever met are tainted thereby and must be hunted down. Rob's doing us a public service, despite the clear connection with known racists that hangs over his own head. Some might call him a hero. --Kels (talk) 01:57, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
No, really, RobS is a red-hater? Really? Wow... I never would have figured it out... ħuman 03:41, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
RobS stands on guard for thee, bucko! --Kels (talk) 04:15, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
The price of liberty is eternal RobS. Totnesmartin (talk) 17:00, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

O faithless generation, how long must I bare with you? The Wordbomb Saga is connected to the front page. The front page is connected to the SEC ban on naked short selling. The SEC ban on naked short selling is connected to lone crusade of Patrick Byrne. The lone crusade of Patrick Byrne is connected to Bush's SEC refusing to act. Bush's SEC refusing to act is connected to Obama's call for change. Obama's call for change is connected to the SEC ruling.

So you see, what we have here are laudatory (or is laveratory?) accolades for Obama keeping his promise of change (albeit, as a subtext). Shheeeeesh..... RobS (talk) 00:41, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Jebus, Rob, learn to spell. At least that way you won't come across like a paranoid, semi-literate, backwoods half-wit (although you are in good company with JPratt) and people might take your rantings more seriously than they do. Of course, there might also be a female Pope one day). However, I do like the unintentional faux pas of using "bare" instead of "bear" and then having "naked" a bit further along. Freudian slip, my running-dog-red-hater? --PsyGremlinWhut? 14:40, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Not quite up to Ken's "Homoschooling". ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 14:57, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Speed kills, man. --Kels (talk) 00:46, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Rob, this is good stuff. You should start a blog. 00:48, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
(EC) (EC) !!!! It's called time, Rob, - it passes. Look at the "img" tag instead of the link. This message brought to you by: respondand honey 00:50, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
(EC)pi Hey, that's another one of your "six degrees of separation" proofs, only in a different shape, I think! Oh, and I think you might have meant "lavatory"? ħuman 00:51, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
... and the mere thought of you baring with me is rather vomitmaking. This message brought to you by: respondand honey 00:54, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
In heaven we shall bare with Enrico Fermi over a bottle of chianti. 01:00, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Reading Rob "Connected with known racists" Smith's strings of tenuous connections always makes me want to finish them off with a chorus of Dem Bones. --Kels (talk) 01:06, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
I have a blog [2] Where else, for example, can you find Memorandum of conversation Josef Stalin with Franklin Roosevelt on the internet -- in English? Check "What Wikipedia's most prestigious critics are saying..." on the Homepage, Somey's comments in particular. Somey is the guy who discovered Essjay was Ryan Jordan [3] which sparked on international crisis & destroyed WP's credibility. Of the 69,300 Google hits Esjay gets [4], Somey says, "the version of the Essjay story is one of the more accurate ones I've seen." [5] RobS (talk) 01:09, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
"...international crisis & destroyed WP's credibility" might be stretching things a bit. ħuman 01:25, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Rob, I have to say I think you write well, while I completely disagree with what you find credible. I hope it's not overly prying to ask if you would you tell us something about your background and what interested you in your current projects? They're not my thing, but there is definitely a level of scholarship here that's hard to miss. Anything you're willing to share would be great! Thanks dude. 01:26, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
I'm a cheesehead, grew up in Wisconsin. Attended the University of Wisconsin, albeit somewhat after the UW bombing. [6]Bernaradine Dohrn's was a hometown girl. I was surrounded by the labor movement and political correcteness for as long as I can remember (some might describe it as 'being on the front lines). My father dropped out of high school to fight at Iwo Jima, Siapan, Guadalcanal, and was among the first occupation troops in Tokyo the day after the surrender aboard the USS Missouri. My step-grandfather was a Hungarian immigrant who came to the US c. 1927, broke & penniless, fought in an Hungarian regiment in WWI and was in Germany during the great inflation at the time of the Wiemer Germany, but managed to became a modestly successful businessman in the US. The two used discuss U.S. foreign policy every Sunday afternoon while watching Meet the Press in the 1960s. Yes, they did somewhat shape my thinking on Communism.
I recall a discussion when I was very, very young among several cheesehead (my father & grandfather where not among them). It was a discussion about FDR & Truman covering up communist subversion in the government, although I must confess I did not quite understand what they were talking about at the time. McCathy & the 205 vs 57 number must have been the subject of the discussion. Some where claiming the real numbers 400, others saying more than that, 800, or over a thousand. They concensus was FDR & the Democrats covered up an enormous crime, that they, some of them veterans, knew occurred and were bound not to forget. One of them came over to me, stuck his finger in my face and said, "He'll know. They can't get away with it, but he'll live long enough to know the truth." Venona suddenly made that long forgotten incident from my childhood make sense.
In the 70s, I couldn't find a job making more than \$2.42 an hour because of labor unions and Jimmy's Carter's and the Democrats inflationary policies supposedly to "help" poor people. But I had mouths to feed and couldn't afford rising tuition. Let's not go there, I'm still pissed off about the whole decade of the 70s. Suffice it to say, I had to move out of my beloved home state of Wisconsin because of what the Democrats & communists did to it.
Is that enuff for openers? RobS (talk) 01:53, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
So basically what you are saying is some older members of your family fought far-right fascist and you once overheard a conversation about some unsubstantiated claims about Roosevelt and communist, which you admit you pretty much misunderstood. There was a recession in the 70s which was caused by OPEC. You have lumped all this together as communist, connected the Democrats somehow and have spent your life paranoid of reds which haven't existed for 20 years now. - π 02:00, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
That would be one interpretation. And as to the "...international crisis & destroyed WP's credibility, " WP's own entries on Essjay basically corroborate the statement. RobS (talk) 02:02, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Which is, of course, why WP is the first source of casual information for more people than ever. I don't know how they'll recover. --Kels (talk) 02:04, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Kels, probably the same way TK recovered after the great UCLA plagiarism scandal of 2008. ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 06:38, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
(EC)Wait isn't their a logic loop forming? WP says it has no credibility, but since it has no credibility we can't believe that statement, and since we can't believe that statement it might have credibility, but if it has credibility, then it saying it is not creditable means it has no credibility..... - π 02:09, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Rob, I take back my threat from a few months ago not to buy you a beer. If you're near Chicago you can get some personal recon on me for TK and put down a few pints. 02:06, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
You can still get a 25 cent beer in Wisconsin. Beer drinking means jobs. The more beer you drink, the more people employed. That much has not changed. RobS (talk) 02:10, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
I've said this before, I think: it is so much fun having you here, Rob. I really appreciate your personal story above. Doesn't matter whether we agree or not, hell, most of "us" don't agree either. Thanks for your input. ħuman 04:46, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
I heartily agree. And if I can find a 25 cent beer anywhere near Viroqua I'll hoist it in your honor. 05:47, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Since I'm on vacation in Wisconsin at this very moment, I'm calling bullshit on this 25 cent beer thing. Either I'm in the wrong bars, or the wrong decade. --PitchBlackMind (talk) 05:52, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Where you at the Dells? Here's one [7] Notice it's Friday nite, not Sunday or Monday when biz is slow. Friday There's others on Google. I know places in Two Rivers, Marshfield, Milwaukee, and elsewhere. RobS (talk) 19:57, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
I'm in Door County. Fish Creek to be exact, which is about 20 minutes north of Sturgeon Bay. You probably know the area, even if you haven't visited it. I'm heading back to Milwaukee for a few days this coming week, so if you have any recommendations on the cheap bars, I'd love to hear them. They don't have to be 25 cents a brew, I'll settle for not paying 3 bucks at this point. --PitchBlackMind (talk) 22:09, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Door County? Sturgeon Bay? Is that you, ColSamatoshi? 193.200.150.82 02:51, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
I still want to know why TK hasn't banhammered him for being a member of a vandal site. 25 cents? that's about 15P! Beer hasn't been that price since the sixties. This message brought to you by: respondand honey 06:19, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
My first job as a university graduate in 1973 grossed me £90 a month when the exchange rate was £1=\$2.4, so about \$1.35 an hour. I dreamed of making \$2.42 an hour. ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 06:35, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
That's about right. My first (not under the table) job was at \$1.60 an hour and I earned a merit increase to \$1.85; of course the Democrats raised the minimum wage to \$2.05, wiped out my merit increase, and lo-and behold, the minimum wage only applied to new hirees. So I was making \$1.85 while training new hirees making \$2.05. Of course the Democrats call this "fairness."
So if you dreamed of making \$2.42, I can only say, look at what Socialism did to Great Britain. RobS (talk) 19:30, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Cue 4 Yorkshiremen sketch. This message brought to you by: respondand honey 06:50, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
That was what I was alluding to but I didn't want to be too explicit. ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 07:26, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
BTW. Naked short selling is what Christianity has been doing for 2000 years. ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 06:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Rob, "international crisis"? Let me make that clearer: "international crisis"? Like, say, the Berlin airlift? Srsly? Some internal political crap at wikipedia, which I would guess affected 0.000001% of their articles, was an "international crisis"????? Eh, you're still fun to have around. ħuman 06:47, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

(undent) I'll freely admit that the Essjay thing was a scandal for WP, but what percentage of people who actually use it really care? Or let that affect how they use the site? I'd guess it to be a very low number indeed, most people would just chalk it up to "site politics" and continue on to look for the atomic weight of cesium or whatever they're looking for. "International incident" is making a mountain out of something smaller than a molehill, but that's Rob's stock in trade. --Kels (talk) 15:36, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. And to think that Ryan Jordan, aka Essjay is not in anyway today still serving in some high level trusted capacity would be ludicrious. RobS (talk) 19:34, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Rob- first, do you mean to say that you think that Essjay is serving in a high-level capacity at WP or a related project? Second, have you considered that your minimum wage vignette, which sounds like it was incredibly frustrating, could perhaps be better explained as a an example of capitalist exploitation of a loophole? It's easy to blame the Democrats, but did you ever consider that the managers who decided not to give you the raise might also be to blame? Corry (talk) 19:45, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
First question, yes. Second question, no. The gubmint needs strawmen & fallguys for thier schemes, you know, "we're here to help you and protect you from the greedy evil businessman" etc., when basically the problems the working poor encounter are usually caused by gubmint. It is employers who for the most part, are doing more to help them improve thier lives while government does more to retard & fruastrate their dreams & ambitions. Third question, GOPers aren't famous for raising the minimum wage, but realistically, adjustments are required from time to time. RobS (talk) 20:04, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
If bosses are doing so much to help the working poor, why didn't you just ask yours for a raise? Seems to me you are blaming the Democrats for something you needed to sort out for yourself. Stop relying on the government and stick up for yourself, more importantly stop being bitter for something that happened more than 30 years ago. 192.43.227.18 03:59, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Rob hasn't responded to my further comments. I doubt he will respond to yours. Corry (talk) 22:57, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Regarding Essjay, is there any evidence that he still has some important wikiposition, despite the fact that he was a colossal embarrassment? Regarding the government and labor, I would argue that the government has done MUCH to better the lives of workers in the US. Children go to school instead of working. Workplaces are regulated for safety (although OSHA can really be a pain). Workers can't be treated differently because of race or sex. Wage earners must get paid extra for overtime. These were not capitalist innovations at all, Rob. These required government intervention. Corry (talk) 20:12, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Several interesting comments; "children go to school..." maybe yes maybe no. I live in a state w/ 70% drop out rate, extremely low literacy in both languages, English & Spanish. Then the question becomes, does attending school constitute education? Yes, it can be a fun social circle & source of drugs but, is attending school worth being shot, stabbed, raped, gang banged or any other of a myriad socially progressive phenomenon? And the issue of child labor is interesting (my grandmother quit 8th grade to work & suport her sisters who probably would have starved to death if she had not had the opportunity). In addition to altrusitic motives for outlawing child labor, it also was a conspiracy to raise wages for adults (and in this case for the most part, adult white men). "Workplaces regulated for safety"....I didn't know Mexico & China was subject to OSHA regulations. "Wage earners must get paid extra for overtime." Ah yes, let give more personal data. I at one time worked 56 per week for \$1.60 per hour, and was grateful for the opprotunity to do so. Unemployment was 7%+, inflation 12%. Then the Democrats, to promote "fairness," required overtime for anthing over 46 hours. I lost 10 per week, or 16% of my income. (Thank you, Democrats) Didn't really need that particular kind of fairness and/or compassion with the misery index at damn near 20%. "These were not capitalist innovations at all..." hmmm, interesting comment. Are you admitting the gubmint has been taken over by communists? RobS (talk) 19:19, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Not convenient in the least edit button

Having seen this sort of thing play out in my own province recently, I'd suggest that it was exactly those free-market heroes who brought pressure on the government to make that loophole in the first place. Yeah, it's frustrating not to have had that merit increase nullified, but you should ask yourself why your employer didn't raise your wages above minimum wage accordingly, even though there was nothing preventing them from doing so (hint, it wasn't the government's doing). As to Essjay, who gives a shit? --Kels (talk) 20:02, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
I never even heard about Essjay until I saw it on CP. I bet if I went outside and took a survey of people out there on the street most will have 80%+ will have heard of Wikipedia, more than half would use it as a resource and less than 1 in a couple of hundred would have any idea what I was talking about when it comes to Essjay. Net effect on the world - zero. 192.43.227.18 04:02, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
Here's who's interested: Essjay copy-pasted a form letter he sent to a professor for other students to send to thier professors. [8] It read in part, "I am an administrator of the online encyclopedia project Wikipedia. I am also a tenured professor... Well credentialed individuals (myself included) participate in the project in the hopes that our involvement will help to make Wikipedia a better source, and dispel the misconceptions held by the public. ...It is never the case that known incorrect information is allowed to remain in Wikipedia..." (like the part about him being a tenured professor). The Chronicle of Higher Education noted, "the incident has wider ramifications than a simple personal dispute....the incident is clearly damaging to Wikipedia's credibility -- especially with professors who will now note that one of the site's most visible academics has turned out to be a fraud." [9] As to the international scope, ABC News,[154] Associated Press,[155] BBC,[156] USA Today,[157] London Daily Telegraph,[158] London Guardian,[159] Le Monde,[160] The Register,[161] Newsweek,[162] BusinessWeek,[163] CNSNews,[164] Boston Globe[165] and Sydney Morning Herald[166] all reportred on it. [10] RobS (talk) 19:57, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
And yet, two years later...the general public doesn't care. WP got over it, they got past it (unlike yourself, it seems), presumably made changes and moved on. I realize that in your world time stops the moment someone does something wrong (unless they're a Conservative, in that case they never did anything wrong to start with) and they can NEVER, EVER, EVER GET PAST IT, but here in what we like to call reality the Essjay mess is something that most people couldn't care less about, and most of those who are aware of it consider it wiki-politics and forget about it. Aside from cranks like yourself, not a lot of people really deal much with the whole business any more. The rest of us learn lessons, make changes, and get on with our lives. --Kels (talk) 20:08, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Make changes, likes Essjay's sockpupets. Yes, I'm sure they've moved on. We had this discussion at WikipediaRevirew, how Essjay (like Siegenthaler) was originally "The Essjay Scandal," then the "Essjay controversy," downgraded to the "Essjay incident," but mow apparently upgraded to "Essjay controversy." So even by WP standards, it's still a "controversy." Of course I'm sure there will always be apologists for fraud and failed hoaxes. RobS (talk) 20:14, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I can see how "I'll freely admit that the Essjay thing was a scandal for WP" is the mark of an apologist. It happened. Then the world turned and people moved on. WP salvaged their credibility and a huge number of people use it every day. And cranks like you, who see the entire world as a complex web of conspiracies, will collect up every grudge, every slip, and every perceived slight to add to their list of grievances which can never, ever be compensated for. --Kels (talk) 20:20, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Hmmm, "collect up every grudge, every slip, and every perceived slight to add to their list of grievances," what pray tell is this WIGO page all about, or for that matter, why does RW exist other than "to collect up ... every slip, and every perceived slight ...?" RobS (talk) 20:27, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Eh, it's throwaway. Ask me about some retarded shit you, or Andy, or even TK did a month ago, and I might have a vague recollection of it. What we have here is a running noticeboard of people laughing at the clowns, some of which eventually get boxed up and put in the "Best of" closet where they're largely ignored. Somewhat different than your tying together of the most tenuous six(teen) degrees of separation stuff, all of which you seem to have at your fingertips, in order to attach Obama or Jimmy Wales or whoever the daily target is to Hitler or Essjay or some such. --Kels (talk) 20:33, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Retarded? Have you no shame, at long last? Perhaps you and the President (...kinda like the Special Olympics) need sensitivity training, maybe even anger management (this highly offensive rhetoric appears to be a pattern with some RW users [11][[12][][13]) Probably a bunch of closet anti-Semitic racist biogotted homophobes. I know retarded people. Some of my best friends are retarded. If we had more retarded people in office, maybe we wouldn't have had all these problems all these years. RobS (talk) 17:21, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Let me respectfully disagree. cp:Frank Marshall Davis, for example is a good vehicle to introduce young students to what Profs. Haynes and Klehr refered to as Americans distorted view of thier own history. [14] In the past I've focused on bio pages (which RW reports as "he has created many pages, on both Wikipedia and Conservapedia;" [15] should read "hundreds of pages") but Mr. Davis will be a good focal point to add much needed context of the fact (as the cp:Moynihan Secrecy Commission stated}, of the "serious attack on American security" from American & Soviet communism. RobS (talk) 20:49, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
I'll have to (respectfully) ask just what you think you're disagreeing with, since all that blather seems to have little, if anything, to do with what I said. --Kels (talk) 21:07, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Just for fun (for low values of "fun"), here's what Google News brings up in the past month for Essjay. Contrast that to what it brings up for Wikipedia. Yup, I can see they're still labouring under the weight of the scandal. Oh, and have you seen this? It makes me smile. --Kels (talk) 20:14, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Wait a second. SOme of your best friends are retarded? Where did you meet them? What kind of friendship do you have? I knew one retarded person and, frankly, she was irritating. I must lack the magnanimity you've cultivated through your suffering. But this is all very interesting, sort of like the old "my best friends are black/gay/jewish" saw. Do explain. I think our demographic probably tracks closer to us being a bunch of homosexuals, jews, and african americans, in addition to all the other things we are. 17:48, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Wow. Looks like the bigots at RW made main page news. RobS (talk) 22:25, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm curious, Rob. Is it not enough meds, or too many? --Kels (talk) 04:15, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Rob, here's the thing about the Essjay controversy, and keep in mind, this is about Essjay, and has nothing to do with communism, if you can handle the concept that there are things out there which are not communist related. Essjay, as scandals go, was pretty minor largely for the reason that Essjay, though he was not who he said he was, was still a decent editor, and his contributions were basically good. He wasn't some troll making up credentials in order to add disinformation to Wikipedia. You see, this is one way Conservapedia and Wikipedia differ. WP cared about the quality of the edits, whereas all CP cares about is whether the ediotrs are conservative enough. If I sign up on CP and make some statement that equates Obama with Hitler, it gets reverted as liberal trolling. If Ken makes the exact same statement, it's likely to end up on the front page for a while. WP doesn't care if you're an expert in the subject or, dare I say, a retard. If you make a factual edit that can be backed up, it's a good edit. Essjay didn't damage Wikipedia greatly because whether or not he was a professor didn't matter to Wikipedia.

Now, do you have reason to believe that Essjay is still involved with Wikipedia? His account has been inactive since the controversy; do you have reason to believe he is using others, and if so do you have reason to believe these accounts do more than the random editing millions of other people do? Keep in mind "of course he's still involved!" is not a valid response. I'm looking for evidence here. Please respond without mentioning Alger Hiss, Venona, or the Moynihan Secrecy Commission. DickTurpis (talk) 22:53, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

So farewell then Obamapoleon

SPY SAPPIN MAH PRESIDENCY!

Ed just deleted Ken's Obamapoleon picture with the comment "Can make the same point without stooping this low". That's going to hurt Kenny's feelings. ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 16:29, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I wonder how Ed feels he can better make the point "Don't trust this darkie". --Kels (talk) 16:37, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
I assume by pasting Obama's face on Gus from wp:The_Birth_of_a_Nation WazzaHello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me... 17:41, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
And after Andy had hinted that he doesn't mind it being on the main page, see here. Aboriginal Noise What the hell is that thing? 16:39, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
That's because Andy knows a good smear when he sees one. Photos are always more memorable and emotional than text. --Kels (talk) 16:46, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Especially when it's his good ol' buddy from the Harvard Law Review. ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 20:52, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Watch out, his smoking problem is getting worse Stile4aly (talk) 22:44, 1 August 2009

(UTC)

I call your bet and raise it sir. ENorman (talk) 03:38, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Obama and Schlafly is just like Potter and Malfoy (I'm not sure which should be correlated with which though). Kettle Kin (Version 2.0) 04:27, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Pfff. More like an elephant and one particularly persistent housefly, and I know EXACTLY which one correlates with which.) --Gulik (talk) 04:31, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

To be absolutely precise, it would be like putting 5 300lb henchmen armed with guns, knives, and garrote wire alone in a locked room with an unarmed James Bond. --The Emperor Kneel before Zod! 04:34, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Um, we all know Bond wins in that scenario. So I'm not sure what your point is? ħuman 05:47, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Top 150 editors

I updated the statistics for RationalWiki and Conservapedia. As usual, I included those 150 editors which contributed the most edits to the sites.

Here is just another view of the top 150 contributors per semester:

 CP RW RW and CP

The last semester (Jan 2009 - Jun 2009) showed quite a decline at CP: While the top 10 contributed as usually, the number of comments by the next busiest 140 was roughly cut in half. OTOH, RationalWiki's editors tend to become busier...

It's nice to see these opposing trends in direct comparison :-)

larronsicut fur in nocte 09:29, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

I that scale on the vertical right? It seems to indicate that the number of edits by Conservapedia's editors is decreasing. Should not just go up slower? - π 09:47, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
The graph show the top 150 editors per semester, ordered by number of contributions (from most to fewest). So, at RW, the first entry is that of user:Human, while at CP, it's cp:user:Aschlafly. The other places are not fixed...
larronsicut fur in nocte 10:00, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Nice work, I like that the axes are the same, so once they are in two tabs, clicking back and forth makes a "mini-animation" and really shows the trend. In raw edit-count growth we are truly clobbering our ancient nemesis! ħuman 21:32, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, but of course one wonders how many of our edits are encyclopedic and family friendly. 22:37, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Hopefully, "none". However, they are probably "more informative". ħuman 22:39, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Here is an animation of the top 75 of each month from April 2007 until July 2009. Enjoy! larronsicut fur in nocte 13:46, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

That animation only ran once for me, and wouldn't do it again on reload or view image. WTF? It takes me six tries to follow these things ;) ħuman 05:50, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
I changed that - I hope this one works better now. larronsicut fur in nocte 06:43, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, it now re-loops when I hit "reload". Does ani-png offer the same "reloop forever" option as ani-gif? If so, I'd recommend it. By the way, awesome work! I love how their curve drops below ours as time goes by. ħuman 06:59, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Nevermind, after a short pause it runs again. Ignore my whining, and concentrate on where I said "awesome work"! ħuman 07:00, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Moar Ed

I'm not going to WIGO this, but clearly Mr. Hardcore-poornography has been wallowing in the stupid pool again. First he creates anti-DDT Campaignimg. Then TK suggestsimg (amid sucking up like the slimy weasel he is to the "Professor") it be merged with DDT. Ed agreesimg... and then simply sticksimg the {{merge}} tag on his article. This from somebody who claims: "I have over 8 years experience working online collaboratively to create articles of lasting value; 1,100 articles which I started at Wikipedia are still in existence.)" I'd call him an idiot, but this actually is just plain lazy. Let's see just how long they remain unmerged for, shall we? Over to you, OscarJ.--PsyGremlinWhut? 14:10, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Being the generous soul I am, I'll guess that 1,095 of those articles he "created" retained nothing of what Ed wrote after they were changed into something actually useful. Yes, it's a bit far-fetched to think he'd created five useful articles in his career, but I'm an optimist. --Kels (talk) 16:58, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Oh come on now Kels, be charitable. I'm sure there are quite a lot of "ifs" and "ands" as well as definite and indefinte articles which were originally typed by Ed.  Lily Inspirate me. 17:16, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
I think we ought to leave the poor chap alone, he's obviously got problems. It must be the sleep deprivation that does it. This message brought to you by: respondand honey 17:24, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Okay, how about he's created 1,100 article titles, the contents of which were changed from what he wrote into something useful? --Kels (talk) 17:41, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, curiosity got the better of me, so I decided to look through some of those "1,100 articles" that he's so proud of. I started with his very first edits, and went through, oh, 5 or 6 hundred or so, just comparing the ones he started to the current versions. I can't say I'm impressed.

And what do we see in pretty much all cases? Same Ed we see now. Stubs on subjects he clearly knows nothing about, and isn't willing to do even minimal research on. Expectations that others will do everything for him, although you can bet he claims every one of these as his articles when he brags about them. The POV-pushing. The liveblogging of movies. The lack of thinking things through. The Middle Earth obsession, despite not being able to write coherently about it. The faux-"folksy" humour that's so damn irritating. There's fun in his other edits too, such as where he slips Rev. Moon into the Prophet article, or rambling about evolution in the Falsifiability article. Ed might brag endlessly about it, but his work at WP really isn't that much to be proud of. --Kels (talk) 18:42, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

I think Ed models himself on the pointy-haired boss in Dilbert.  Lily Inspirate me. 19:09, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
The Ed view on stubs on Wp. (A BoN has been having a go.) This message brought to you by: respondand honey 14:37, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Starting a crap stub with no value of its own and insisting other people do the hard work of making it into a real article is anything but collaboration, but Ed is far too lazy and incompetent to realize that. Starting a stub is fine, if you stick around and help build it into something worthwhile, but Ed rarely does that except when it's an opportunity to POV-push his anti-science stuff or promote his cult. --Kels (talk) 15:19, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

The Sophocles Twins

One bottle of wine is never enough is it TK? StarFish (talk) 12:23, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome StarFish (talk) 12:30, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Obamunism

Finally, a term which just wasn't made up! I like "cointed" too, does anybody know the definition of that one yet? Lern! Jimaginator (talk) 15:35, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Conservative did his usual twenty edits making that article and in none of them did he catch "cointed." Maybe Andy'll cover it up as a conservative word... SJ Debaser 16:06, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Looks like once again CP used RW as proof readers; hey idiots, "is term" sounds like a retarded monkey wrote it. Oh, wait...Z3rotalk
"hey idiots, the whole front page sounds like a retarded monkey wrote it." Fixed that for you. --Kels (talk) 16:41, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Some time ago, there was a Republican Strategist that was pointing out that putting 'Obama' and 'Socialist' in front of everything was bad for their image instead of good. This was the guy who coined the 'Death Tax' phrase way back when. His remarks pointed to the fact that the Repubs are making up terms that a 3rd grader would use, instead of terms that impacted both the base and the opposition. Obamunism is just another one of those sad, child-like words. -- CodyH (talk) 17:12, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

How long will this last? TheoryOfPractice (talk) 18:17, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I just cointed a new liberal phrase "CP is full of assholes!" Will this help the geometric growth? Lern! Jimaginator (talk) 19:20, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

"Obamunism" sounds a lot like "onanism". Maybe that's why Ken found it so interesting.--WJThomas (talk) 20:56, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Is he being serious or does he think he's being witty? The way he puts it, it seems like he thinks he's made a point, but no one could be that dumb...could they? Tell me what you think. — Signed, by: Neveruse513 / Talk / Block 21:14, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Is that really a question? He's absolutely that dumb. I'd be way more surprised if he wasn't serious.--PitchBlackMind (talk) 21:26, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Nah, he's being funny, come on. He has at least enough sense of humor to come here and play with us. ħuman 22:04, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
He's not here to play. He comes to try to explain his argument, because he thinks we're too dim to understand his brilliance. He's too thick to realize that we don't understand his arguments because he's insane. That said, I don't think Robby is making a joke, exactly, but he might be trying to be witty and sophisticated.--WJThomas (talk) 22:19, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
He has played along with the jokes on his talk page, and even added one himself. And, yes, of course, he also comes here to set us straight about the ebils of pinkoism, and to explain/explore/demonstrate the degrees of separation between sanity and madness, but I still maintain he's a pretty funny bloke. ħuman 23:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Of course, reading the current first section of this talk page, one might think he has a "bit" of an agenda, and "some" issues with completing a train of thought. But that's just one talk page section ;) ħuman 04:27, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

AAAS

Well, my research group was recently published in Science and we never saw any "leftist politics" enter the scene at any point in the publishing process. Just saying. d hominem 14:30, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Congrats! And yes, as a AAAS member myself, that was a facepalm moment. Heaven forbid we "promote the responsible use of science in public policy" (my emphasis) (So now being conscientious is "leftist"?!). And by the way Ed, you know what isn't scientific either? Not supporting your claims but posting them as factual. Sounds a bit fraudulent to me, or perhaps it's DECEIT!!! Kalliumtalk 16:08, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Don't you love his trusworthy source, though? --Kels (talk) 16:51, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Hmm, didn't notice that. Nice example of irony... Kalliumtalk
Hey, congratulations. I've heard that the secret to getting published in a top flight journal is to not hesitate when the high priestess makes you blaspheme the holy ghost, sign your membership card for the communist party, and piss on the cracker. All hail Lord Darwin! Corry (talk) 03:38, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Shoot, that's why my paper from this month wasn't in Science- I forgot the three Hail Charlies. Kalliumtalk 02:02, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Are we now officially a larger site?

asked Π above... Well, that depends. Here are the official statistics from today:

 Conservapedia RationalWiki Content pages 31,582 3500 All pages 76,641 30,586 Page edits since set up 657,214 760,684 Average edits per page 8.58 24.87 Registered users 30,784 (16,736 blocked) 3159 (2 blocked) Active users 70 139 Views total 103,379,387 13,436,260

We'll never have more articles than Conservapedia, or even socks registered users. But since the week that never was, there is more activity here than at Conservapedia:

 edits per day at Conservapedia edits per day at Rationalwiki

larronsicut fur in nocte 16:39, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

If we were to clickbot our own articles, how long before we overtake CP in pageviews? It would be hilarious to point out to Andy that our site has had more hits than his, even if both our numbers are fraudulent. DickTurpis (talk) 16:54, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
It took us days to get a couple of million hits. I would say if everyone stopped clickbotting CP, it would be sometime next year. [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 17:35, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
So over half of CP is blocked? Nice. ENorman (talk) 16:56, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Only if you count editors with names like "KenDemeyerIsTotallyGayForTehHottButtSecks" as part of CP--many,if not most,of those blocked users were blocked on sight for good reason. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 17:32, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Question: How many of those 14048 not yet blocked are socks of ours/other pricks? I am guessing over 9000! [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 17:35, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Even if you exclude user-name blocks like 'Rushlimbaughisacoward' or some other nonsense, I would say that a good 1/3rd [Approximate, of course] of the blocks are from people who disagreed with Andy and crew or for silly reasons. Heck, they banned VenomfangX, a well-known Youtube Christian Creationist, because he didn't follow their naming rule. -- CodyH (talk) 17:44, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
If I'm reading this correctly, I see that editing also went up here around the time that I left. Kettle Kin (Version 2.0) 18:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
I'd be more interested in seeing how much editing here fell after CUR left: fewer rollbacks and undoes, less edit-warring and shouting. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 20:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Speaking of cheetah-boy CUR, does anyone know if he started his own wiki yet as he promised he would? Ace McWickedModel 500 20:21, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
I can't find A Storehouse of Cheetah anywhere. - π 11:16, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

So we have more people participating at a greater rate? Given we are a niche wiki we won't get as many visitors and we are not a general encyclopaedia so we won't have as many page. I call that a win. - π 11:16, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

They're bound to out-article us because stubbing is their policy, so wht's the comparison in total size? ie if all CP and all RW were saved to one file each, which would be bigger? Would their hitwins outnumber our goats? Totnesmartin (talk) 18:06, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The hypocrisy! It burns!

Hold on one gosh-darned minute! First they are complaining about Obama placing taxes on the rich to fund his programs, now they're saying he isn't taxing enough?! 'Democrat tax cuts for the rich scheme'?

To Conservapedia: This is why people mock you on TV and in the media. This is why you should be scrutinized, especially since you bill yourself as an education source for home-schooled children. I hope you never become part of the SES in this country until you learn to pull your head from your 4th point of contact and realize your own hypocrisy. -- -- CodyH (talk) 23:22, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

It is RobS. He is less concerned with consistency than he is with smearing his ideological opponents with what ever snarl word he can find. Read the thread at the top. - π 23:55, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Also whilst we are on the frontpage Joaquín Seoul is the capital of South Korea, he is getting friendly with a South Korean. - π 23:56, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Anyone got that old picture of Donald Rumsfeld (I think) shaking hands with Saddam Hussein? --Gulik (talk) 03:00, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
This one? 192.43.227.18 03:31, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Look here Saddam Hussein even. Ace McWickedModel 500 04:34, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Rob's not the sharpest apple in the marquee, is he? The thread up top is a good example, but hell everything he writes is a good example. --Kels (talk) 14:09, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Rob wouldn't be the sharpest eraser in a box of crayons. ħuman 03:56, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

And that's the way it is: Reporting tips for the unrepentant

I would have placed this on CP itself, but Tk decided to revoke my immigration papers, so here we go:

I have taken an interest in the news since I was a child. To me, it was the way people really connected to each other with the things that mattered in their lives. You could hear about the family that lost their house in the fire and pray for them [if that's your thing]. Or, you could hear about the lost child who was found and give thanks for his safe return.

As I grew, and learned more in the process, I began to notice how news reporting was moving away from the factual, give-it-straight style of journalism to the flashy, image-centric methods of today. I can still remember, dimly, listening to news on the radio. Which, excluding satellite radio, has all but vanished.

But when I learned about my current profession at the Defense Information School, I was finally given the tools to explain what I was seeing before. I learned about reporting, the three essentials of journalism, how to make your writing stand out on a page. I began to understand what it was I was learning all these years.

So, to you, Conservapedia, I offer you a bit of advice on how to improve your 'news reporting', if you could call your main page talk and news template that.

A is for Accuracy, the center point of news.
B is for Brevity, not over-explaining your views.
C is for Clarity, to keep from being confused.
And the ABC's are how we do the news!

And if you are offended by the sing-song approach, here it is straight.

Accuracy: Where did you get your information from? Is it credible, or is it an opinion? Is it backed by facts or data to support, or witnesses [both circumstantial and present]? Or is it, like much on your page, constant self-inflation and egotism dressed up in news? Even worse, when someone points out a hypocrisy or a fault in your reporting, it mostly goes ignored, with the 'ignorant liberal' user blocked for impertinence to his site masters.

Brevity: Though you say you are 'concise', your articles are just un-marked stubs. And when you aren't 'concise', it turns into incoherent rambling filled with factual errors and logical fallacies. Your news page, though short, usually never gets it's point across. Many times, you end up losing the reader when the link posted says the exact opposite of what you said on your news page.

Clarity: For God's sake, or Allah, or Odin, or Amaterasu, et al., stop with the cheap photoshops and useless circular arguments. You lose your base in a quagmire of useless and often contradictory information. However, most of the time your headline [the only thing to make sense] is something proven wrong within the body of the story. But, are you really worried about your viewership reading? Or do you just want to hammer the point across without worrying about pesky data?

To RW, I am sorry. I had to post it in an area they would read it in, and I know that even if I still had my account, they would turn & burn the article before anyone read it. It's been on my mind for a while, but this last incident is what ended it for me.

As for CP, you know how to contact me. I've talked to TK before, so I know you know. And I know that you read this WIGO, if only to fact-check your own foolish position. So come on, let's discuss.-- CodyH (talk) 17:21, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

No need to apologize to us... Oh, and I threw some BRs into the singalong part so it will appear as you intended. ħuman 23:24, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

CP finally covers the "controversy"!

This might be good for a few laughs (once Kara manages to get his references to display...). To begin, he tells us which direction to follow: End the article by pointing out the "refusal of Obama to settle the matter by the release of the long-form document from Hawaii". --Sid (talk) 16:42, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

"Detailed treatment of the Hawaiian short-form copy released by Obama's staff, including allegations that it may be a forgery; Detailed treatment of the recently-released Kenya certificate; including allegations that it may also be a forgery;"
Karajou sure makes it obvious what he thinks of the Hawaiian birth certificate. Vulpius (talk) 21:40, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
If they want me to fix the typos all they have to do is unblock me... ħuman 23:26, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

History lesson

I know it's TK, so take it with a grain of salt.... But did anyone else almost piss their pants when they read about Liberal Broward County in Florida? In case you don't know, Broward County was the county that banned sale of rap group 2 Live Crew and then arrested them after performing in a 21 and over club in the early/mid 90's. Yeah, that's just a haven of Liberalsim down there...... What a fucking moron. SirChuckBI brake for Schukky 00:08, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Things have apparently changed a lot since then, Chuck. From WP: "Broward County is now the most reliably Democratic county in the state...."--PitchBlackMind (talk) 00:51, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I feel like pointing out that although the WIGO entry says that they're defending illegal immigrants, they're not; they're gay-bashing in a fairly obvious way; "This man was openly gay and it turns out he's a sex offender!" X Stickman (talk) 01:36, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

main page clusterfuck

I know TK is a parodist and all (which I know for a fact actually - he has all but admitted it to me) but the main page clusterfuck bullshit that he had a hand in has left my mind reeling. A picture of Bill Clinton in Seoul (note: South Korea is a democratic ally of the US) followed by a note stating that Bill Clinton is heading to North Korea to save the journalists in an act of appeasment (As opposed to bombing the shit out of them for two journalists?) and how, because John Kerry is involved, it will fail!. UPDATE Bill Clinton succeds! HURRAH!! Boo! Boo! Clinton paid a ransom, Boo!.
Complete and utter clusterfuck. Ace McWickedModel 500 23:08, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Since DeanS stopped his tender-loving care, it has been on a down hill slope; especially since Ken took an interest in politics which he approaches with his usual style. I often wonder if Andy looks at his mainpage and thinks about what became of his dream of a high quality, conservative encyclopaedia. I bet you can't prove TK said it though. - π 23:13, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Although it's easy to imagine he never looks at it and just trusts his acolytes to keep it flying, he does have to go to it, or at least half of it, to update his brag numbers. The truh will set you free! ħuman 23:18, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
(EC) When one can say, with all honesty, that Mr. Schlafly's latest essay with its 80% error rate is a cut above all the others in accuracy, I seriously doubt he is having thoughts of that sort. ListenerXTalkerX 23:19, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
We were saying the Bugler was a parodist quite regularly but they didn't pay much attention to it. When TK finally comes out it'll be one hell of a day. d hominem 13:51, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Cash for Clunkers

Right, because there aren't any other used cars except for new ones from dealers. Kalliumtalk 02:17, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Idiots. Since the program requires the trade in get worse than 18 mpg, all the used Civics and Proteges and Sentras are still out there. It's mostly gonna take a lot of shitty 10-15 year old SUVs off the road, I would imagine. ħuman 02:38, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Speaking of economics, what's the point of an old gas-guzzler clunker anyway if you can't afford to fuel it? Kalliumtalk 02:50, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone know how long they are doing this for? Is it indefinite? My car definitely qualifies as a clunker, but I'd really like to push it until it's unusable, which won't happen for several more months. --PitchBlackMind (talk) 03:08, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
It's budget-limited. They budgeted a billion \$, and the happy US public who put off buying cars burnt through that in a week (roughly 250k car purchases). Bill is moving thru the whorehouse (no offense to sex workers) to add a couple billion more to the program. This strikes me as the most popular gubmint program ever, ever, ever. Clunker has to be: less than 18 mpg, newer than '92 or so, and registered and insured for the past year. ħuman 03:53, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Awesome. Thanks for the info. My car hits all those requirements, on top of being an utter piece of shit that I probably couldn't give away. Hopefully they approve the new funds for it, it would help me out quite a bit. --PitchBlackMind (talk) 03:59, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Google it, or just drop on by your local friendly efficient car dealership for details! Can you afford a car payment? ħuman 04:17, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah I'm going to look into it more later today. I'd like to get a hybrid or something else that's super fuel efficient. I think I could afford the payments without having to spend \$75 a week on gas like I do now. --PitchBlackMind (talk) 15:46, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah? 02 Civic lx 5 spd gets something like 39 mpg and goes for less than \$7k. 2002 Toyota Prius gets something like 41 mpg and also goes for less than \$7k :-) 17:59, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
That's great, but the Cash for Clunkers program only applies to the purchase of a NEW car. Sorry. HollowPsycho (talk) 05:36, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Mike Malloy on Glenn Beck

Wow, nice to see my man on the CP main page. That quote was on last night's show. Hell, they could run the whole borken news page by just quoting Mike... ħuman 02:34, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

That's not really a good thing IMO. One of the reasons I don't like Talk-show hosts and partisan bloggers (from either side) is because of hateful rhetoric like that. Of course they should know better then to judge an entire ideology by what one person is spewing. --Passerby25 (talk) 13:31, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
That's why I gave up on AirAmerica. Despite my agreement with its views, it had all of the flaws of right wing radio -- rumor reported as fact, directed towards the opposition, etc etc etc. Al Franken and Rachel Maddow were good, but they moved on to bigger things. MDB (talk) 14:12, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
At least he only wants Beck put on a suicide watch, he's not inciting murder ;) Malloy is pretty over-the-top a lot of the time. If you want someone calmer and less incendiary, Thom Hartmann is a good listen. He regularly has lib't or cons. guests, debates respectfully, lets them say their piece, and has a policy of not allowing people to "argue with" callers or guests who are no longer on line to defend themselves. I used to enjoy the old Seder/Garaofolo show, too. Franken was good until his foil left the show. ħuman 20:49, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Ah, I forgot Seder/Garafolo. They were good. I've listened to Thom Hartmann, occasionally, too. Mike Malloy, though, drove me up a wall. MDB (talk) 21:10, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Ed : science :: oil : water

I thought I saw some mention of this elsewhere, but I just have to comment:

• "The "big" particles like the electron and proton are still "fundamental" to chemistry, even if they in turn are composed of smaller particles."

If Ed were such a good chemistry student, he would not group electrons and protons as "big" as protons are 1836 times as massive. He would also not call electrons "big" as they are in fact less massive than quarks. He would also not use the term "big" as they have no definite size. He would also not suddenly employ a different definition of "fundamental", as his sentence currently translates as "electrons and protons are still fundamental even if they are not." He would not do these things, if Ed were such a good chemistry student. Kalliumtalk 02:47, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

You actually expect Creepy Cousin Ed to actually explain something resembling a rational thought? All he ever does is make my head hurt in lieu of scaring the children--Tabris (talk) 03:42, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
I would actually expect it... if Ed were such a good chemistry student, as he claims. It goes to show that as in particle physics, where "fundamental" and "elementary" are synonymous, his knowledge of science fundamentals is likewise elementary. I just find it annoying when people consider themselves great teachers but fail to demonstrate even a high-school level understanding of "their" subjects (yeah, I know... it's CP we're talking about). My degree is in biology, but I have had thirteen college chemistry courses, five semesters as a tutor, and have taught pieces of it in high school classes, so it bugs me to find so many gaping flaws from a so-called educator who simply passes them off as "avoiding unnecessary complications". What Ed needs to wake up to is that simplification, which is necessary, does not require compromising accuracy, whereas using it as an excuse is a blatantly obvious sign of incompetence. Most importantly, though, doing so shows a severe lack of respect for one's students, for which there is no excuse. And that's my unsubstantive rant for today! I feel much better now. Kalliumtalk 06:08, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
I created a bullshit science article on CP. Ed 'improved it' (didn't change the bullshit) with the comment 'so this is what abc is...' EddyP (talk) 11:06, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

wow...mystery "solved"

Of course, no Schlafly mystery can be solved to his satisfaction but, no rebuttal? The user hasn't been banned? TK hasn't come back to poke him? WTF is going on, here? Are Assfly and TK conceding? Is this as close as you could get to that? — Signed, by: Neveruse513 / Talk / Block 14:49, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

That is eggsellent. Well pwned. This message brought to you by: respondand honey 15:21, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
This is really funny. I want the zero to be invented AFTER Christ, so therefore, it was. Reminds me of the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding", in which the father of the bride was always attributing the root of every word to Greek, including kimono! Of course, that was done for comedic effect. Here, it's done out of blind, stubborn, unreasoning, assholism. Funny, with a pinch of sadness, methinks. Jimaginator (talk) 15:26, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Question 9

I love this question. My answer would be to tell the bitch to shut the fuck up if she's knows what's good for her. Ace McWickedModel 500 21:54, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

I like to sit at the wing emergency door window, so.... I'd have a empty seat next to me to put some of my work on! ħuman 22:06, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Invent a time machine, so you can go back and check in online and pick your own seat. Then you'll have \$500 and a time machine. Economic or what? Of course, the moral of this story is to sit next to the Assfly on a 'plane and moan constantly about the million dollars you lost at the RNC somewhere in Rush Limbaugh's back fat. Also, I love that he's getting his kids to write his lectures now as part of the homework. I can't decide if it's a stealth economics lesson, or if he's just a lazy fuck. Oh, no, wait. Yes I can. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 22:07, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
It's a trick question. Economically, it makes sense to tell her to stuff it, but that wouldn't be chivalrous. The correct answer is to give her 50 bucks so long as she promises to shut her piehole.--WJThomas (talk) 22:23, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
and make cookies for the boys Cantabrigian (talk) 12:34, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
The answer is that no one is likely to be in the situation described, any more than it is likely that a UFO will land in 5 minutes and demand a parent to choose which child will be taken away by it. It's silly to speculate on a scenario that will never happen. The Sensitive Man (talk) 23:31, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Hahahahahahahahahaha! Ace McWickedModel 500 23:43, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Continue work at the lavatory. Didn't someone mentioned the greatest ideas often come while someone is in the toilet? [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 00:05, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
I think that was in Back to the Future. - π 00:06, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Doc was mending his sink, he fell off, banged his head and... when I came too, I... had a vision. Of this! The flux capacitor!
Oh, and in answer to the woman question, I says to her I says "Shut the fuck up, it's five fuckin' bucks and I've gots to do my essay!" Or I could put in my iPod and completely ignore her. SJ Debaser 10:20, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
I love these little insights into Schlafly's life (which they surely are). We had similar things with the desperate smoker or the lost \$40 in his cp:Conservative parables. They obviously have made a lasting impression on him. ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 10:40, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
I fixed your link so that others can enjoy the "parables". Cantabrigian (talk) 12:48, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
They can be read here as well. - π 12:50, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Question 6

Question 6 is awesome too. Here is my answer:

• Matthew 22:21
They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Now, give Caesar the f***ing building permit (Kent Hovind)!
• Luke 12:33
Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
Luke 18:22
Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
Why isn't Andy selling his stuff yet?
• Mark 11:24
Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
I guess we should pray for knowledge from an incarnation of an omniscient being (who by definition knows everything, and praying is free) instead of paying you to to take a course in Economics, Andy.

There, all three Synoptic Gospels covered. [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 00:20, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Matthew doesn't count. In Matthew Jesus tells his followers to follow every Jewish law to the letter. We ignore that one. SirChuckBI brake for Schukky 04:20, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Q 4

"That good or service could be a World Series ticket (a good) or a famous autograph (a service), or anything else you can think of." His examples suck so bad. Since when did an autograph become a "service"? And attending a ball game, which is the "good" a ticket represents, is really a "service". ħuman 00:32, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Unless you intend to frame the ticket and say, "Hey look, I went to the world series that year!" Too bad you only get the stub back as proof of purchase. The autograph may become a service if you tape it as the person signs it. [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 00:52, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Well, modern tickets are bought on-line and printed on your own computer (the bar code is all that matters). But I think "premier" events also sell "souvenir" tickets with pretty colors and logos. Those would, at least, be "goods", just like the scorecards one can buy at a game and fill in as it plays out. ħuman 01:20, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Better examples might include goods such as poorly printed knockoff jerseys sold by touts outside the stadium, and services such as a blowjob in the carpark from an itinerant hooker. --JeevesMkII The gentleman's gentleman at the other site 01:31, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Perfect examples, Jeeves. Also, one could then analyze the competition between crappy knock-off jerseys sold by "outside the stadium" shills and the "real thing" sold for 8 times the price indoors. Bad money driving out good? As far as the hookers, is there any competition for their services in the ballpark? "Get your peanuts here! Get your ice-cold beer! Blowjobs on a waiting list, Sheila will be on this aisle in ten minutes, get your order in now!" ħuman 03:10, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
The example I was taught was that a company that manufactured airplanes provided a good, while the airline company that flew you provided a service. Obviously I went to the wrong college. --The Emperor Kneel before Zod! 04:21, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
What is it considered if the hooker sells you a condom to go with the blowjob? Does that counts as goods and services? SirChuckBI brake for Schukky 04:22, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
I think that's a sales promotion, attempting to upgrade the customer to a fuck? IE, the condom is not a "good" unless the customer takes the promotional item and uses it to increase the level of the service provided? A smart hooker would not sell the condom, they'd offer it as a freebie enticement to the "higher" level of service. ħuman 04:30, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
It counts as a good only if you keep the condom. But then who knows what that'll be good for, especially used? On the other hand, condoms used to have intercourse with celebrities may be able to sell at a high price... if you can validate the authenticity of it. [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 04:32, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
In the old days you used to wash them and use them again. (Before my time though.) ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 10:30, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
To Human, what if the Condom is officially the only sale. For example, to get around prositution laws, some hookers sell condoms (at a very high price) and then willingly engage in sexual activities with the person.... How do we classify that transaction? And to K.... There are consumable goods which are not kept. For example, groceries, alcohol, things of that nature. Those would be goods. SirChuckBI brake for Schukky 16:48, 5 August 2009 (UTC) PS, something I just realized, our little jokey discussion is a better economics lesson than Assfly's.... and he's getting money for his.
Hehe, true. Of course, a random talk page on this wiki is probably "a better economics lesson than Assfly's". Hell, a random fricking lolcat probably is, too. ħuman 00:22, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
I suppose the difference between dining out (service) and ordering take-out (good) is you can decide when/where to consume your takeout. If you don't get the analogy, by keeping the condom you may want to use it again/frame it/do whatever else? [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 14:26, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Question 12

Just - what? Gah! Words fail me, etc. Cantabrigian (talk) 12:32, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

See Conservapedia:Scarcity. [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 16:26, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Even if you step into the bizarro world of CP, where the Bible literally happened, am I wrong in thinking that the multiplication of the loaves and the fishes actually suggest that scarcity does, indeed, inherently exist, as it took the direct intervention of God, in his earthly incarnation of his own son, to get around the problem of scarcity? 92.17.230.219 19:29, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
Aren't miracles scarce by definition? larronsicut fur in nocte 19:33, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Conservative censorship

Didn't Assfly say that only liberals censor their opponents by shouting them down and refusing to let them speak? Anyone know how he addresses stuff like this?. I'm curious to see but any attempt by a non-established user to ask him anything is a certain ban by TK. I really want to hear his explanation as to how this is a different thing entirely. DickTurpis (talk) 17:35, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Assuming he even acknowledges their existence, I suspect it will involve some variation on "brave fighters against Socialism and Euthanasia who we must all pray for". --Gulik (talk) 20:18, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
If you guessed that Conservapedia would simply portray the "protestors" as bravely utilising their freedom of speech while the liberals censor them, then congratulations! You win the prize! Bil08 (talk) 08:21, 7 August 2009 (UTC) (P.S contact Andy to claim it)

Jokebama poster WIGO

This is interesting--the first time I saw the poster, I didn't "see" the Joker reference; what I saw made me think that this was some sort of Obama-in-whiteface/blackface thing. Only later did I understand it as a Joker thing. So is the racism in the poster, or in me for automatically reducing any discourse about a black guy to questions of race and racism? TheoryOfPractice (talk) 18:34, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Why so Socialist?
I think that Mr. Kennicott is, shall we say, digging a little deep, but that is typical with art-critics. A possibly more straightforward argument for the Jokebama poster being a racist one is that Heath Ledger's Joker is an anarchist rather than a Red, so that comparison is likely to be a cover for something else. ListenerXTalkerX 18:40, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
To answer you TOP, it's actually neither. The racism is inherent in society. People are always asking me if all my stand up material is racially based. I say not really, but a lot of it is because that's the world we live in. Now looking at this from a realistic standpoint, whoever created the poster (which, by the way, is awful) was probably not coding deep racial messages, but on the other hand, maybe somewhere their hatred of Obama and their strange connection with a figure that in no way has anything to do with politics (Hell, the Penguin was more interested in politics than the Joker was) may be stemming from a deep mistrust of Obama because he's black... Who knows? I will say though, that CP loves to have it both ways on the whole race thing.... SirChuckBI brake for Schukky 18:46, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

It's complicated--the deep racial messages ARE coded there for me (blackface/minstrelsy, etc...) but there's no way, short of an honest disclosure from the *ahem* artist to learn how intentional that was. Of course, the French would tell you that the author is dead, so what he thought is irrelevant, and we have to deal with the text on its own terms--and in a society where race plays such a fundamnetal role, and where those tropes are sow ingrained in the culture, well, you're right Chuck. It's everywhere. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 18:52, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I think the art critic has a point, and there are other examples of racism masquerading as valid criticism. By no means am I suggesting that any or all criticism of Obama is such, most is fine and merely a matter of political beliefs. But certainly as mentioned above, trying to link Socialism to a character that loathes all forms of authority is ridiculous and masks something else. But for me racism is most telling with the 'birthers'. There is absolutely no evidence for any of the claims they make, all evidence tells us that Obama was unquestionably born in the USA. This has caught on amongst people who don't simply criticise Obama, but have some deeper and despicable hatred and masked it as just criticism. I don't imagine for one moment that such ridiculous lies would have caught on as they have if directed at any of the former presidents. Jammy (talk) 19:03, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
"trying to link Socialism to a character that loathes all forms of authority is ridiculous and masks something else." -- I *suspect* that whomever made the image wasn't even making that connection. S/he probably just saw the movie and thought "Joker bad, Obama bad" and proceeded to waste their time making ignorant pictures in Photoshop with that rather than actually getting involved with the politics in any meaningful way. Kalliumtalk
That is quite possibly the case, but to go around plastering these posters to walls around cities does take it beyond what I'd expect for someone just messing about. And indeed, as this poster shows, along with many claims of Obama's 'socialist' agenda, all that it really shows is a fundamental lack of understanding of what socialism actually is. I'm from the UK myself where we are certainly better acquainted with aspects of socialism than many of those who criticise Obama. To simply criticise his healthcare plans as being socialist is seen by the right as sufficient to reject them. It is simple word association, socialism = bad, but they don't actually address the issue. Anyway, I digress.... Perhaps more to the point is not so much the views on race held by the poster's designer, but how the poster has been picked up by the likes of Conservapedia. They have completely failed to question the link being made by the poster, which is likely in part due to ignorance on numerous levels. But the fact that they unquestionably go along with over the top personal attacks, like this and especially the 'birthers', which lack any foundation, perhaps speaks of their own deeper hatred of Obama, that goes beyond simply political ideology. Jammy (talk) 19:50, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
The idea of what constitutes a "socialist" among the Conservapedians, etc., is nicely summarized in this image from the Libertarian Reform Caucus. ListenerXTalkerX 19:57, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Awesome image LX. I especially like the font, the same one as used on The Prisoner ("village")... ħuman 21:00, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
I don't think we have anything like the same vilification of the word 'socialism' over here as in the states. Even our conservative party have learned to live with the welfare state. Though it's criticised a lot, I don't think there are many people here who would want to see us switch from the NHS to the current US system. Jammy (talk) 20:03, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
(EC)There was a great article that came out during the campaign. People were asked if Obama was a Socialist, then they were asked what positions a socialist holds... People that swore Obama was a Socialist couldn't explain what Socialism was. In modern American politics, Socialist is the new Communist. SirChuckBI brake for Schukky 20:11, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
EDIT: After reading Jammy's last point, I would add that the people in this country are just easily led by their idealouges(sp?). Did anyone else see the video where a bunch of "protesters" were disrupting a Democrat's town hall. He asked them to raise their hands if they were against Government Health Care and then asked them to raise their hands if they were on Medicare. It was like 95% overlap in the two groups. I almost fell off the cough laughing. I can guarantee you that if we went to an NHS system ala England, the Conservatives would be against it and then use it like crazy. SirChuckBI brake for Schukky 20:15, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Link? ListenerXTalkerX 20:12, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
What? Did the GOP round up people from a local retirement home to go and crash the town-hall meeting? ListenerXTalkerX 20:19, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Not too far off actually.... The most vocal opponents of the Health Care Reform have been senior citizens.... and Crazy people like Andy. SirChuckBI brake for Schukky 20:24, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

UK politics are pretty boring compared to the states. Whilst I'd welcome a bit more enthusiasm I wouldn't want to see it go to the extremes we've seen in a few examples from the US. Of course even here our politicians spout rubbish now and then, but to see how certain right wing politicians can just say that a healthcare policy they oppose would actually kill people and be believed literally by so many is not something I envy. Jammy (talk) 20:36, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Of course politics in the U.K. are boring; whenever someone gets too interesting they get prosecuted by the State for making hate-speech. ListenerXTalkerX 20:38, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Back to the poster, not being immersed in the Batman trope, when I first saw it, the first time it was on CP's front page (it's there twice now), I thought it was a racist whiteface/big red lips thing. Had to read the "news" item to get the "Joker" thing, which of course I still didn't understand, knowing the Joker only as a "bad guy" from a comic book. I think it was "created" as a bad joke, but I have no idea why it is being "propagated". It's just a ridiculous image with no meaningful political content. Hell, Hitwin is more "meaningful". ħuman 21:05, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I picked up on the "joker" thing the first time, but I don't really "get it". It's more about what those people want to see than what it could possibly mean. In, say, JPatt's little mind: "Obama is a joke...joker...HILL-AIR-EUS!!!" That's about the extent. The whiteface conjecture makes even less sense to me. I don't think it's the case at all. — Signed, by: Neveruse513 / Talk / Block 21:19, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

"The whiteface conjecture makes even less sense to me." Well, you'll notice his..face, it's...painted white. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 22:08, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

"it's...painted white" Indeed it is. But think about it...racism makes no sense in this context. Why would a white racist portray him in whiteface? Does that make any sense? Why would a black racist paint him in whiteface? To call him an "uncle Tom" or something? For what? Socialism? Is that what 'whitey' does? Socialism? Because that's apparently what the artist was concerned with. If that's not the case, then I still can't imagine a good reason. You can? — Signed, by: Neveruse513 / Talk / Block 23:27, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm not trying to say that there's something direct and literal and straiightforwardly racist that the artist is trying to say--remember I set this up as a question, not an argument. What I am saying is that, as Chuck pointed out, America is a racist soiety, and that rcism is politically, economically, and culturally pervasive. It's everywhere. That being said, taking a political opponent who is black and painting him up as a white guy in a grotesque manner that is reminiscent of Al Jolson and other minstrel-style touchstones of American culture is something that I think can be--if not has to be-- understood in terms of that pervasive racism. It's complicated and subtle, not a simple "X means Y" kind of thing....TheoryOfPractice (talk) 23:36, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Quixotic racism aside, I think Heath Ledger and US obsession with him rivalled racism in the US last year. Were racist, but we're not that racist. It just seems like you're reading too much into this. I think everyone at RW knows how it feels to have someone tell you you're not reading enough into something...well, at least it makes me think 'woo'. If any racist connotation that wasn't ass backwards was available, I might think twice. But otherwise... no offense. — Signed, by: Neveruse513 / Talk / Block 23:52, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
How does whiteface relate to racism? I know about the minstrel-shows with the blackface, etc., but was whiteface used in a similar manner? ListenerXTalkerX 22:10, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, it was, I'm pretty sure. In fact, I remember a TV show from my childhood, "The Black and White Minstrel Show"... ħuman 22:17, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Listener, there's a really complicated and rich literature on minstrelsy and other kinds of trans-racial entertainment in American history-- this is one interesting study; this is another. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 22:22, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

TheoryOfPractice
Well, that was certainly my quantum of Red blather for the day. It was interesting to learn about the theater companies that did whiteface performances and also put on the minstrel-shows with actual black actors. ListenerXTalkerX 23:02, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Hey, listener, I know you're much smarter than all of us put together, but you can say some really stupid-sounding, self-superior, self-righteous shit every now and then with annoying regularity. Fuck you. I don't like you one bit. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 23:07, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Come on now ToP, thats taking it too far. I for one think I am smarter than ListnerX. Ace McWickedModel 500 23:31, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm so glad I uploaded that file earlier today. Kettle Kin (Version 2.0) 03:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
Damn it, don't make me flick the lights on and off! (Sorry, school starts next week) Czolgolz (talk) 05:43, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
That image cracked me up. Kudos! :D --Sid (talk) 11:21, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
@Human - The Black and White Minstrel Show never had and black guys whited up. All the men were blacked up and the women were not. ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 21:25, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, and my brief "research" into the matter shows "whiteface" is more the province of mimes, not like blackface at all. I still see a black guy with his face painted white and "sambo" lips stuck on him when I look at the poster. I don't know if being more into the Batman thing would have immunized me from that , ie, I'd see it as a Joker thing immediately... and then still wonder what the point of the poster is! ħuman 00:39, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
According to those sources TOP provided above, there was some use of whiteface by black theater companies for the purpose of making the black actors appear white. ListenerXTalkerX 04:32, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
That's as maybe. I was just pointing out that the B&WMS of Humans's youth (in Wales I presume) did not have white faces. And while loved by millions, I found it absolutely ghastly although not for any racial reasons - I wasn't as "aware" in those days. ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 09:02, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

TK thins out the good editors.

TK blocks OscarJ one of the best contributors they've ever had for a) not enabling emailimg and b) being a sock. I am eating & honeychat 07:19, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Typical Terry Krackwitz illiteracy in his comments, too. ħuman 07:43, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
Strange that it's only for 3 days though. I am eating & honeychat 07:53, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
TK learned Schlafly Statistics? Oh dear. When will people no longer be able to tell them apart? [[User:K61824|]][[User_talk:K61824|]] 09:21, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm too lazy to dig, but I'm 95% certain that Andy told some other bloke that enabling mail was NOT mandatory. Not that Andy's word means anything on CP anymore... --Sid (talk) 11:20, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
The current screen for account creates states: E-mail address is optional, but allows a new password to be e-mailed to you if you forget your password. You can also choose to let others to contact you through your user or user_talk page without needing to reveal your identity.
But I agree, the words mandatory and optional can be mixed up...
larronsicut fur in nocte 11:59, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
Surely this entire WIGO incident is proof that TK is a parodist out to destroy CP. PJR ouright denies the IP sharing, he doesn't realise that email isn't manditory. This surely proves that whatever reasons he says, he's just making them up. So he's either genuinely deluded or intentionally wanting to block CP out of existence. d hominem 19:22, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
I dont see PJR denying anything, he just says he isnt aware of it. Maybe TK is trading IPs with a different admin. — Unsigned, by: 131.107.0.101 / talk / contribs
PJR is the only one with Checkuser access, so it's either him or nobody. --Sid (talk) 11:37, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
I somewhat liked the new user EMailNotMandatory, who tried to help OscarJ...
larronsicut fur in nocte 19:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

TK must be trying to mess with the account creation screen, in an apparent attempt to "fix" this "flaw". And failing, of course. Until a couple of minutes ago, CP screens said "log in / create account", but with a login screen that didn't have a "create account". Now CP screens give my IP address, and say "log in" only. It used to be that the screen would either say "log in / create account", with a "create account" option when you clicked it, or would just say "log in". The former when TK/swabbie/JPatt were willing to do battle, and the latter when they were not. Gauss (talk) 19:36, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm starting to think TK intermittently just turns account creation off when he's not around to wield teh banhammer. 22:25, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
I think only Andy can do that (but I could be wrong). What I love though is when TK lies so much, he forgets his lies. One minute he deletes the article on ASoK, claiming he's not going to host an article written by somebody who lies about him and Andy, then suddenly he's swapping insider secrets with said liar. Gotta love it. It's sad though that Kara especially just let's him get away with it. (PS Karajou - nice work on updating SA's President... four months after his inauguration. You want to work on that "trustworthy" slogan a bit.) --PsyGremlinArnold J Rimmer lookalike winner 1998 12:25, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Moer Carter

Jimmy Carter's Korean adventure has stimulated RJJ into actionimg. Although quite why he's put his 1980s doctrine in the 1960s categoryimg is a bit strange. I am eating & honeychat 08:04, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Carter? ГенгисOur ignorance is God; what we know is science. 09:03, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
OOPS Mega boob I am eating & honeychat 09:07, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

"You had to be there", apparently

The first few lines of cp:Talk:Sandy Berger crack me up somehow:

Rob: What do you think, is this better?
Rob: He's not smiling.

The rest of the talk page is also nice if you like the RJJ/TK/Rob combo, I guess. --Sid (talk) 11:37, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I love little morsels like this from TK: "As conservatives, we don't need a court conviction to prove what common sense tells us." He's been trumpeting this "as conservatives, we should always be allowed to jump to our desired conclusions" business for a while, now. Corry (talk) 17:53, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
Without making random shit up, where would Conservapedia be? --Gulik (talk) 19:05, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
Considering that it was at least partially founded because of Wikipedia's "liberal and anti-Christian bias", a safe answer would be "Non-existent." --Sid (talk) 19:17, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Black hole denial

I can see this one turning into Andy's Obession of the Week. The further improvements show that he's definitely an non-believer. But Andy, have faith... d hominem 19:39, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Not only is he a non-believer, he is also ignorant about even the basics of black holes. Note that he credits Schwarzschild for defining the radius of a black hole? The Schwarzschild radius defines the event horizon of the black hole. The black hole itself has no radius because it is a singularity and thus a point with zero volume. Another example of how Andy thinks he doesn't have to learn anything about what he hates to speak about it. Kaalis (talk) 20:15, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
Looking over the article, I find it more than a little amusing that someone felt the need to clarify that the Black Hole of Calcutta was not in fact a collapsed star, but a jail. Rather important thing to clear up, apparently. Kaalis (talk) 20:20, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
Amusing that Brother Roger actually seems to like black holes too. I am eating & honeychat 20:22, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
Not to mention assfly's misunderstanding of falsifiability. But pity the poor wormhole, whose "unattractive name has hurt its popularity with the public." Godspeed (talk) 20:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
They obviously should've been called Jesus Loving Space Points or something. THEN they'd be popular! X Stickman (talk) 22:58, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
I love it when the tweedle brothers disagree. ħuman 21:31, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Rob's word games

He likes making up or implying links between things. On the 'article' for the National Guardian under 'see also' it now has 'Wikipedia' and 'Frank Marshall Davis'. Unless I'm mistaken, I'm unaware of any real link between them, (or could someone enlighten me on that?) and it seems Rob agrees given that they're not mentioned anywhere in the article. Jammy (talk) 20:09, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

And that's some good work from Rob in messing up the main page (relatively speaking) Jammy (talk) 00:36, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
I like the "selective axis" effect that makes it look like his approval dropped in half on its way from ~65 to ~50%... ħuman 00:42, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
And 2.5 hours after Rob messed it up, none of the admins have noticed. Jammy (talk) 00:49, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Rob's mind is kinda like a game of Mad-Libs, except 50% of the words are "COMMUNISM". --Kels (talk) 04:53, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
That's pretty close to the reality, yup. Sharpest eraser in the crayon box, I repeat. RobS' thinking: 1-2-3-4-5-6 DIE COMMIE DIE! ħuman 05:01, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Nuke

How long have they had it?. Kangaroo's going for it big time.img. I am eating & honeychat 12:26, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Since the last update, I think. hasn't been used much - probably only because TK hasn't figured out a good enough excuse to delete everything and Jpratt is waiting for somebody to draw him pictures on how to use it. --PsyGremlinArnold J Rimmer lookalike winner 1998 13:42, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Think more along the lines of April... 2007. See Andy's early deletion log for the trademark "Mass removal of pages added by..." --Sid (talk) 17:19, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Is TK just an ignoramus then? TK is just an ignoramus then! I am eating & honeychat 18:04, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Sloppy

Thisimg is what happens when editors are blocked and the admins don't follow through. --PsyGremlinWhut? 16:05, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Wow. That'a a lot of Star Wars novels. Do you think Ieuan has ever kissed a girl? TheoryOfPractice (talk) 16:18, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I have, thanks for asking, the advantages of having fuckbuddies over gfs is that you can schedule your own time for Star Wars.--Visit http://www.swtor.com. Give me TOR or give me death. Because only Star Wars makes life worth living (and at least it's honest enough to admit to being fiction) (talk) 16:23, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
There's more.img I am eating & honeychat 16:19, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

I have been WIGOing some of these on clogo, but I am worried about this one. Is he actually advocating shooting federal employees? - π 00:19, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

It's a federal crime to threaten the life of a federal employee. I wonder what the FBI would think about Jpatt's batshit crazy and dangerous wingnuttery. 00:26, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
That boy can't seem to decide if Obama is a commie or a Nazi. And he wants to throw all the progressives into Gitmo. Methinks somebody's been spending too much time on CP.--WJThomas (talk) 00:55, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
At least he doesn't hide his tweets like someone. - π 01:01, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Interesting, although I doubt it is him, even if jay-pe is following. On further looking a definite no.- π 01:02, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Promoting a site called ProLife.tk. .tk is a service from the Tokelau Islands that simply lets people who have, say, a Google or Geocities site or a blog to create a short, memorable domain name. I've got one. Bluefish (talk) 03:05, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
Tuvalu got so lucky with theirs. - π 03:18, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Great. Now do us a favour and go register us a site called TK.tk --- and let the fun begin. TheoryOfPractice (talk) 03:14, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

What a little idiot. I like this quotation (capitalization not mine) "PRO-CHOICE IS BLACK RACISM." The bad thing about Twitter is that it is a perfect venue for people only capable of tiny thoughts. Corry (talk) 02:09, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
As far as the crime, "More gun owners than they are employees of the fed. govt. The 50 states with the Second Amendment have the final say, not #ObamaJoker" is so incoherent who knows what he is actually saying? ħuman 04:26, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Well the second amendment allows the states to have militias. I think he is advocating gathering all gun owners together in state militias and taking on the federal government. Mind you given that federal employees would includes the regular army, watching Jpatt with his 10mm take on a Delta force squad should provide some laughs. It does amaze me how much talk there is around the clogosphere about state rights, the US being a federation, and even succession now that the federal government is top to bottom Democrats. Very different tune to three years ago. - π 04:56, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Yup. Five years ago it was "respect and honor your president". Now it "He's not my president". By the way I heard the same shit when Clinton was Prez. F'ing assholes. ħuman 05:00, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
I can't say that Democrat supporters where great during the Bush presidency, but I don't recall cries for succession. There were a few fringe people that wanted to impeach Bush, but that is at least working within the rules albeit stupidly, rather than turning your back on your country. - π 05:04, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Fuck is this about? That looks like a threat against the President. - π 05:13, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

"@mobwatch Write for your records H&K G1 semi-auto, bipod, 20 round clip, 7.62 NATO ammo. flag@whitehouse.gov #tcot #rwe #iamthemob" Can anyone even understand that? Anyone want to try to parse it for me? ħuman 05:14, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
flag@whitehouse.gov is where the government is asking people to send misinformation about healthcare. He seems to want to send a description of his gun to them. - π 05:17, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
It's totally unintelligible to me. My favorite part: on one of the links the guy replies "You definitely need health care for your mental illness."--PitchBlackMind Do or drown in torpor 05:19, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
(EC)Before hand he was going on about Gestapo-care. As far as I can work out he seems to be thinking: asking for information is like the Gestapo, ergo Obama is like Hitler. Add the usual NRA nonsense of if the Germans all had guns they would have stopped Hitler and we have a dangerous chain of thought. - π 05:21, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
This is that Mob Watch's only tweet that wasn't some auto generated reply. - π 05:27, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Yea. It's fun annoying watching my twitter feed fill up with Jpatt's rantings. At least he's following me as well. I recently posted "Hmmm.. Just found a site called Conservapedia. *wanders around the site*" to get him to follow. Silly Mr. Cat 08:10, 8 August 2009 (UTC)