RationalWiki:Chicken coop/Archive118

Knight Commander and DuceMoosolini + Nobs.

This is a formal notice of a rights abuse. RobSmith (talk · contribs · block  · rights  · rename) was blocked twice today by @Knight Commander and DuceMoosolini and stripped of user rights so he could not unblock himself. This is a blatant case of rights abuse. Duce is a tech, KC is just a sysop.

Relevant log. I don't care if either of you two want nobs gone or not over that braindead insurrection at the capitol, we have a procedure for this. Argue your cases here. Remember that it needs an active breaking of our CS to block nobs, and a case of rights abuse for sysoprevoke. Reinstate it and I will be enacting speedy rights removals based on direct rights abuse and will have the mob vote on them sticking. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 00:11, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Joe Biden "Hey Donald, I know you lied, cheated, encouraged and condoned violence and attempted a coup but bygones be bygones, I would like you to join my cabinet as Treasury Secretary" Trump fell a tiny bit short of in-sighting insurrection so should not be exiled but should he hold power, even at a wiki? As Rob is firmly on board with his idol then I think the same should apply to him.^{— Unsigned, by: Mercian / talk / contribs}

Nobs being a dickhead isn't grounds for a sysoprevoke as long as it doesn't involve his behavior on the wiki. Has he edit warred, blocked other users or done other stuff that sysop rights grant him. That is the only grounds for a sysoprevoke. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 00:29, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I find nobs' opinions and statements abhorrent, disgusting, and almost always wrong, but I've never observed him abusing sysop tools. That leaves a violation of the community standards, and again, I see no compelling argument for banning him under them. However, this action by Knight Commander stands out as a blatant violation of the sysop privilege; in addition it is also telling everyone on the wiki to go fuck themselves. If this was just concerning the sysop removal blocks alone, I would shrug it off as happening in the heat of the moment, as many of us are all highly agitated at what's going on in the USA today. But, for bob's sake, don't tell the wiki's community that you're knowingly acting against the rules and that you don't care. This should not be tolerated, ever. —cosmikdebris ^talk stalk 00:30, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I personally stopped supporting trump a few weeks ago. But I still don’t see why Rob is being blamed for the riot? Sievert 81 (talk) 00:35, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Alright. I suppose free speech is there to protect the views of extremists and nobs without a doubt an extremist. I withdraw my objection.^{— Unsigned, by: Mercian / talk / contribs}

This is a strawman. Nobs is an extremist, nobody is denying that. We aren't here to protect his views, I find them abhorrent and any self-respecting user should. That said, this is an extraprocedural blocking and stripping of rights which is a blatant case of rights abuse with no case being made for it. We don't do that. This stuff goes through a procedure if the targeted user is an established member. Nobs is that, like it or not. If he gets blocked over this, I am satisfied. If he doesn't get blocked, I am satisfied. Same for sysoprevoke. Ultimately, I don't care either way as long as the mob decides on the punishment rather than a single user. That did not happen, therefore I am steeling myself for this as I have done before. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 00:48, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Oh fuck off, I know the rules-lawyering pussies won’t vote to ban. 🎄Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano🎄^{Ask about our holiday specials!} 00:38, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Gentle reminder: this case is about Knight Commander and DuceMoosolini's abuse of sysop rights. Nobody is discussing banning. The votes will about those two extremists being disciplined for abuse sysop rights. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 00:55, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

True. This wiki would rather have Nobs around than me. I realize that now. 🎄Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano🎄^{Ask about our holiday specials!} 00:58, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Make your case and they might. You don't have the right to subvert our procedures and ban Nobs extraprocedurally out of justified rage at the attempted insurrection at the capitol. We have procedures to deal with permablocking users and you should follow them. You did not and given it was twice in short order, you are here in the coop. I called you here to present a case against nobs so we can get this cleanly sorted with the hopes of resolving this in accordance to our procedures. @RobSmith You aren't in the clear per se. This is just as much the chance for them to present a proper case against you. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 00:59, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Also, Duce, I highly recommend not demanding your presence here on the removal of other editors. This doesn't work. Ever. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 01:03, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

It would appear that Duce has self-blocked and LANCBed... sighs Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 01:05, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Maybe there should be a mental competency test for Tech? Where would be the place to make such a proposal. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 01:16, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Not needed. We have procedures for new techs that involve community voting and a vouching. Duce was grandfathered in as tech. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 01:25, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ When I saw KC's suggestion of proposing a sweeping ban of all Conservapedians on here on the Saloon Bar, I am utterly shocked at how he acted unilaterally, rather than at least making a proposal on ATIM (which I doubt would be very successful, as the idea, while well-meaning, was ideological and anger-based in nature). While we all have a right to be angry about the MAGA terrorists' attempts to take over our country, kill all who disagree, and turn it into a one-party fascist state, our sysops and techs should not be in the business of feeding that emotion. I feel responsible tbh. I am absolutely disappointed in KC and Duce. Shame on Knight Commander, Duce, and Nobs. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 01:28, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Other than using the words mother, father, sister, brother, man, and woman, what did I do? And I'm called an extremist? nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 01:50, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Well fellas, here's a nice mess that didn't have to happen. Nobs is a troll, and, apparently, an insurrectionist. Moderators should have scolded the offending parties, and let it go at that. Why the fuck is this happening?DocYankem^{Prevent Truth Decay!}02:48, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

As stated in my initial actions, I accept whatever punishment mob deems necessary for them. I also recuse myself from any vote on it. Nobs is an evil little shit though, and after what happened in Washington yesterday, I don't see any reason why he or his kind should be kept around here. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 03:32, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps I feel that way about Black people (I don't). If, IDK, it comes out that Tyler Perry drove his SUV over a bunny, should I be allowed to evict all Black people? CoryUsar (talk) 03:41, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

As a mod, I did just call them all out in this case, as did my fellow mod Sirius. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 03:56, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Statement from nobs

• I did nothing. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 00:28, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Just ban the fucker. (Who?)

Seriously, when the vote opens, ban him. He's not worth the effort of keeping around. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 01:30, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Which one do you mean? --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 01:33, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I assume nobs? Duce and KC are definetly worth more keeping around than nobs, I'm not gonna pretend otherwise. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 01:35, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

What did nobs do exactly? It seems like he was inactive until some users started goading him on his talk page, and then he just went on his usual nobbery. I'd appreciate if somebody could pinpoint a particularly offensive statement that he's made in the last 48 hours so that I can understand this outrage.

Moreover, as to the false problem of choosing between RobSmith or Ducemooselini and KnightCommander: We are not choosing between RobS and better liked editors, rather we are apparently being made to choose, by Duce and KC, between them and RationalWiki's principles of tolerance and free discourse. Ducemooselini and KnightCommander appear to be demanding that we abandon our ideals or they shall abandon us. This is regrettable. I would rather we stick to our principles and keep productive editors. Failing that, perhaps they can join SocDemWiki? Godless Raven is not as discerning with the banhammer as we are. He would ban Nobs in a heartbeat-Hastur! (talk) 01:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Oh please, plenty of users over the years have annoyed or irritated me, but I don't think I've ever voted tp ban anyone for being a douche. CoryUsar (talk) 01:58, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I never thought I'd say this, but Hastur is right for once. As per my above statement, words cannot describe how utterly disappointed I am in Duce and KC for acting based on righteous anger. While I'm just as angry as the next RationalWikian, we shouldn't make decisions based on that emotion. We have to acknowledge that Duce and KC violated our CS. And yes, I am also deeply saddened by one of our most effective and trusted techs going rogue and now LANCBing. Duce's joke-renaming sprees never ceased to make me laugh and inspire my own once I got elected a mod. Yes, nobs may be a bit crude and anti-democratic, but in order for me to say he should be permanently not welcome here or support a "final solution to the visiting CP user question" a la a mass banning like that which KC proposed on the SB, we'd have to prove that he actively agreed with or egged on the MAGA terrorists- of which no evidence has been provided thus far. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 02:03, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Nobs is a useless worthless toxic gobshite who contributes nothing to this site, disupts it with his knowingly provocative comments and trolls the shit out of this place. Having said that I agree that desysopping him wasn't done correctly and should be done via a vote. I don't believe KC or Duce should be sanctioned for this and I definitely hope Moose comes back. I won't shed the slightest tear if nobs is desysopped and I would praise the community for booting him off this site but it should be done via a vote. ShabiDOO 02:18, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Next time why don't you read the guidelines before posting:

"Do not personally insult other users. The Coop is not a place for bitching; don't say anything if you have nothing productive to add."

nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 02:36, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

nobs writes some of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read on this site. At no point in his rambling, incoherent shitposts is he even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is dumber for reading nobs' posts. I award nobs no points, and may God have mercy on nobs' soul.

(Seriously, though, I have no opinion other than people need to stop feeding the troll.) PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 03:01, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I gotta agree, being a cunt isn't grounds for banning under the rules AFAIK. We have to stick to the wiki's principals. The unilateral banning was an abuse of power, an understandable reaction to the situation, but it was nonetheless wrong to do. SolPyre (talk) 02:23, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

(ec) In such a highly charged emotional atmosphere which we all knew was coming, ordinarily I would remain silent. But I just want to say when the Black lady's hair saloon was burnt down in Minneapolis during the George Floyd peaceful protest, I was just as shocked and horrified as KC was during today's events. But it never crossed my mind to blame some internet user I perceived to be a Black Lives Matter supporter for the violence. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 02:28, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Don't ban him, the vote requires a supermajority. I'd say a 1-4 year block, enforced by sysoprevoke would do fine. DocYankem^{Prevent Truth Decay!}02:36, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Because of his past misbehavior, my go-to is always to support banning Nobs. But, rather than getting into another pointless vote on banning Nobs, can someone link to and/or quote the exact offensive statement or statements by Nobs? If he's actually advocated for unprovoked violence or an insurrection against a democracy, perhaps that should be reason enough. Bongolian (talk) 02:47, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

No, they can't cause it doesn't exist. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 03:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

The superscript in his signature is insurrectionist, and possibly a felony just as it is.DocYankem^{Prevent Truth Decay!}02:53, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

He retracted his previous offensive sig. Why not this one? It's worthy of a long block at minimum I think. Bongolian (talk) 02:59, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Don't blame me, blame God. He's the one who said thieves go to hell. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 03:03, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Eh... maybe. When did he change his sig to read "hell to the thief"? Before or after the capitol building was stormed? If it was after then that seems pretty airtight to me, it would be hard to interpret that timing as anything other than support for an insurrection against a democracy. If it was before the storming then I don't think there is much of a case. SolPyre (talk) 03:06, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

After the last Coop case, which the community dismissed as bullshit. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 03:24, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Question: When you don't sig your handle correctly does that signify you are dropping the troll persona for a second or is it just happenstance? SolPyre (talk) 03:17, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Sorry. The hand is quirkier than the brain. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 03:24, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

IIRC, his last sig was claiming Trans women are delusional or something along those lines. That's arguably hate speech. Claiming Biden stole the election? Wrong, but not hate speech. CoryUsar (talk) 03:06, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Believing in conspiracy theories is a bannable offense now. Got it. Also Nobs is hardly the first RationalWikian to advocate for overthrowing the government, subtly or otherwise-Hastur! (talk) 03:07, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Yah. And how about some diffs for all this bullshit? And the case is not about me, anyway. It's about KC & Duce's abuse of rights. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 03:10, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Just so you know, threatening the president is a felony. "hell to the thief" isn't a freaking joke. It sounds like a death threat. A felony. DocYankem^{Prevent Truth Decay!}03:18, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Personally I'd advocate a good trouting for the easily-fixed revoking of rights or whatever and just moving on with our lives. The siege is over, thankfully, and we should be absolutely terrified that some of ours would be willing to do so just because of the actions of unrelated people. Nobs didn't storm the Capitol building, punishing him for that reminds me of the random Muslims that get attacked because they "must" have been related to the ones who did 9/11.

As for saying Biden will go to Hell, that isn't threatening a President and you know it, anymore than standing on a corner shouting that all sinners will go to hell is an assault on us sinners. It's stupid and obnoxious, but even twats have civil rights. CoryUsar (talk) 03:23, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

It says Biden should go to hell. That's a death threat for the slightly paranoid, e.g., typical F.B.I agent. It really doesn't matter that you are unfazed by death threats. DocYankem^{Prevent Truth Decay!}03:28, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I would like to apologize to User:Ariel31459 for making this accusation. I'm sorry. SolPyre (talk) 06:02, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Doc seems to imply that Joe Biden is the legitimate commander in chief 2 weeks before even taking the oath. Geeez, this sure could be mistaken for sounding like subversive insurrectionist activity. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 03:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Pay attention: In the case of a presidential candidate the law is:18 U.S.C. § 879 - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 18. Crimes and Criminal Procedure § 879. Threats against former Presidents and certain other persons (including potus candidates). Penalty: Five years imprisonment. Yeah. Speak to a layer.DocYankem^{Prevent Truth Decay!}05:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Duh, you still haven's made any case whatsoever, other than the leaps of logic and imaginations in your mind. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 06:06, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Any vote that occurs should be on Knight Commander and Duce's misconduct

I'm the victim here. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 03:21, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I motion to give them a warning. I also motion that Donald Trump has been a disaster of a president and that nobs should finally admit it-Hastur! (talk) 03:24, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

That sounds reasonable, with a stern warning to KC that next time sanctions could be imminent. As to Trump, I'll make a full statement on that matter when the current issues are resolved. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 03:28, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I motion to block nobs for one full calendar year, on the grounds of being a felonious troll.DocYankem^{Prevent Truth Decay!}03:30, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

diffs or it didn't happen-Hastur! (talk) 03:35, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Give Doc a calendar, he doesn't even know who the president of the United States is right now. He probably doesn't even know the electoral college votes have yet to certify anybody as president elect. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 03:42, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Just for the record, do you think Trump belongs in hell? CoryUsar (talk) 03:44, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

In the case of a presidential candidate the law is:18 U.S.C. § 879 - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 18. Crimes and Criminal Procedure § 879. Threats against former Presidents and certain other persons (including potus candidates). Penalty: Five years imprisonment. Yeah. Speak to a layer.DocYankem^{Prevent Truth Decay!}03:52, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

1. Diffs of Nobs threatening a president and 2. please show me the relevant section of the community standards where the US Criminal Code is to be enforced on the wiki-Hastur! (talk) 03:54, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

1. "Hell to the Thief," is stop the steal lingo. 2. Because we are not criminals ourselves. It is sort of an integrity thing.DocYankem^{Prevent Truth Decay!}04:06, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I would like to apologize to User:Ariel31459 for making this accusation. I'm sorry. SolPyre (talk) 05:57, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

(ec) Cory Usar: If he stole the election with Vladimir Putin, sure.

As to criticism of Trump, this was foreseeable two years ago when he got into a pissing contest with John Roberts. Roberts has the last laugh. This was expected for a novice politician, you don't get into a public dispute with the chief justice (likewise, you should be well aware most Democrats and some Republicans have built careers by stuffing the ballot box, and not act surprised when it happens). Conversely, that was his appeal, he was not a politician and never pretended to be one. That's the connundrum. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 03:57, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

"Fifty Million Frenchmen can't be wrong!" Bongolian (talk) 21:11, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Users Who Are Nobs

I would like to apologize to User:Ariel31459 for making this accusation. I'm sorry. SolPyre (talk) 06:08, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

There we go, my mistakes have been amended. Hopefully the next time I come out of hibernation I will be more cautious with sock accusations and less eager to let paranoia get the best of me. SolPyre (talk) 06:18, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

No big deal man. I was kind of enjoying the attention. But thanks.Ariel31459 (talk) 06:49, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Everyone I hate is the same person. Judge Dredd (talk) 12:43, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

If Duce leaves over the continued tolerance for nobs

Keep in mind I'm off this wiki partially because of the tolerance of nobs here. Call it manipulation, blackmail, whatever: you have either a sexist, a transphobe, a racist, a conspiracy theorist that entertains some of you, or you have an active, motivated female user. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 05:38, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Come on man, ultimatums ain’t the way to go. (And before someone *cough* Oky *cough* calls me out for misgendering - I call everyone, even my current woman, man... it’s just how I speak yo). Ace^Moderator 05:55, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Don't mean to make it personal, but I simply cannot work in the wiki also knowing RobSmith is tolerated, even if his viewpoints are seedy and grotesque as his missing teeth. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 05:58, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Motion to strike the gendered language used by Ace from the record of this proceeeding. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 06:09, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Seconded. Personally, I think we should all start making threats of LANCBing as long as certain users are tolerated. Flandres and Shabidoo should threaten to LANCB for my continued existence on the site. Oxy should do the same for CoryUsar. Come on, guys, this will be fun.-Hastur! (talk) 06:12, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Fuck you Hastur. Unless I’m gone you’re gonna be LANCBing.... fuck you man... let’s March on the Capitol. Rob will be our leader. Ace^Moderator 06:14, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Who gets to dress up as a Viking?-Hastur! (talk) 06:16, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Personally, I think any kinda protest is ridiculous - even Trump rallies. I've been crowd shy ever since I got tear gassed at the University of Wisconsin in the 1970s. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 06:31, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Nobs' life history: Choir boy … Weather Underground … pencil pusher … serial divorcee … misogynist … Sola fide nihilist … conspiracy theorist … and now treason weasel. It all makes sense now. Bongolian (talk) 07:12, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Fuck off, Ace. I don't have anything to do with this. — Oxyaena ^Harass 13:00, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Better example would be GrammerCommie, who did unilaterally ban and desysop me during a temper tantrum (and has threatened me with bodily harm in the past). CoryUsar (talk) 14:26, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Ditto on that GC incident. He also promoted me, but after settling our differences on my talkpage he did (sort of) apologize and redemote me, so I didn't press charges here in the Coop. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 19:22, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

(Mod speak coming)...I’ve been wanting nobs gone for a while now but...

... not unilaterally doing. So is not how things are done here. I like Duce and have developed a friendly personal relationship with KC (we ain’t lovers... yet... I ain’t drunk enough) but their actions were not the done thing. So, mod hat on, if someone wants nobs gone raise the right objections with diff links etc. I’d give both Duce and KC a slap on the wrist for now so long as not repeating this anytime soon.... sound good? OK, back to my wine and cigarettes. Ace^Moderator 05:53, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

This has all been molehill mountaineering again. Duce and KC both stopped when they were asked to, No further action required. And I hope Duce comes back (and LGM too). I also want RobS gone. But we can't ban him just for insisting the US election was stolen. He didn't incite last night's violence. Spud (talk) 06:26, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes. I agree he should have a fair trial, then hanged.Ariel31459 (talk) 07:04, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I agree; in light of the fact that Duce and KC backed down when scolded for unilaterally promoting and banning RobSmith, it seems my mind has been changed for me; at this point a sysrevoke seems unnecessary. If we want RobSmith gone via a Coop case then we should do it right, with evidence and links to diffs- especially now that getting rid of him doesn't seem all that controversial now. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 07:47, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

A slap on the wrist is good enough in my eyes as well here. I do hope Duce comes back. I purely opened the coop case because it happened twice in a row, in short order, so I wanted this to be dealt with by the mob since it wasn't a singular incident anymore. For nobs, a fair trial is more than he probably deserves, but I think the procedures and standards of the wiki count over anyone's personal dislike of nobs (which I would totally understand people to be angry about). Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 08:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Angry? After I successfully infiltrated and undermined the Trump movement from within? Sheesh, you just can't please anybody these days. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 09:43, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I love that your only outlet of legitimacy Rob , is trolling RW. Oh dear. Ace^Moderator 10:29, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

My name can be added to the list of mods who support giving Duce and KC a slap on the wrist, but no further action against them. --RWRW (talk) 12:40, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Hell to the Thief

I don't think this counts as a death threat. Saying you "wish hell" on someone is not saying you're gonna kill them, it's that you wish they were dead. IIRC, wishing someone were dead does not count as a death threat under US law. And it's debatable over whether or not this even counts as wishing someone dead. — Oxyaena ^Harass 13:31, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

You don't think it is a problem to suggest the President Elect should be killed. Well that is not my view. You who always tries to defend the weak should consider this: democracy is weak. It is fragile and needs defense. Americans who believe it is important to preserve should not feel safe today. Ariel31459 (talk) 17:29, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

That's... not a death threat. I've told people to go to hell before. It just means "fuck off", not "I want you dead". Have a sense of scale Ariel. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 19:29, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

If I understand you right the dictionary you are using doesn't permit my interpretation. Not everyone uses your dictionary, e.g. insurrectionists. Will you dare to use the term "dog whistle" if you have ever done so? I told nobs a solid month ago to stop signing in that way and for the reason I have given here. Now, for the second time, I must suppress my concern over his evident alacrity to advocate political violence.Ariel31459 (talk) 20:40, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

This isn't a threat. Specifically, he isn't threatening anyone. Yes, he's dogwhistling, but that's more in terms of virtue signaling/broadcasting his "side" than actively encouraging violence in a direct or indirect manner. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 21:06, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps a majority agree with you and this is a case of minority rights. Some people are upset by this sort of thing. Really, the last thing I expected was for serious people to consider violent language to be harmless. I suppose the Capitol police thought so as well.Ariel31459 (talk) 21:19, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

@Ariel31459 I did not say this sort of thing was "harmless" I said it wasn't a "threat" and explained what it is. Nobs is a disingenuous pissant, no shit, but he's not making a threat with his sig. I'm sorry, he isn't. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 21:44, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Dear GC: let's agree that I am not changing your mind, etc. Ariel31459 (talk) 21:49, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

@Ariel31459 The thing is, you're wrong. Sure, he's condoning violence and expressing complicit approval of it. These are true. But he's not expressing an intent to do violence. The word "threat" simply isn't applicable here. If you had said "he's expressing support for violence against Joe Biden" then you'd have a case, but he's not expressing an intent to commit violence, directly, indirectly, or by proxy. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 22:00, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

All this humdrum is predicated on the notion of an afterlife, which most alleged rational users here reject. Can we say this is disingenuous, at least? nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 22:28, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

If I changed it to "23 virgins await you", what kind of Islamaphobia would come crawling out of the woodwork? nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 22:33, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Try it nobs, it might work out for you. "What the hell do you have to lose!?" DocYankem^{Prevent Truth Decay!}22:41, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

How's this one? nobs^{Enter at your own risk} 22:50, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

"All this humdrum is predicated on the notion of an afterlife, which most alleged rational users here reject." Sigh.. The popular conception of hell as a place of post mortem punishment and/or torture can and has been used to invoke certain actions and reactions within the population. Neither the victim nor any bystanders need believe in hell, nor do the perpetrators. They need only understand what the concept itself represents and entails. Honestly, if you're going to spout bullshit, at least put some fucking effort into it. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 22:59, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ OK GC. DocYankem^{I see what you did there}.23:11, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

GC, sounds like an argumentum ad populum. nobs^{Enter at your own risk} 23:22, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

My two cents

First of all, I'd like to apologize for the unilateral promoting and banning, when I was fully aware that it was against against the rules. Even more so for the threat to keep doing so in future. Such a wilful disregard of and lack of respect towards the community is entirely unacceptable and for that I sincerely and deeply apologize.

I have zero apologies personally to Rob though. Before I threw my bannmjöllnir at him, he was spreading new asinine conspiracy theories about the attack on DC being an false flag operation by Antifa or Biden campaign. It's exactly bullshit conspiracy theories like these which lead to these fascists trying to kill what remains of American democracy there. At least 4 people are dead because of it. That shit is dangerous, and in my opinion no-one who tries to sell it should have any place in this wiki.

How long will we let this bigoted crank have a soap box to peddle his hateful garbage on this site? Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 13:49, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Seconded. Can anyone point to any constructive contributions RobSmith has made to mainspace? In all my time on this wiki, he's been a troll skulking around in his talkpage, stirring up trouble. IveBeenFrank (talk) 13:57, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

His two essay's on the worldview of Salafis/ISIS? I mean, he's an arch-conservative, but he's not entirely wrong about history. CoryUsar (talk) 14:28, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

He made some pissant edits to mainspace back in the day. Nobs only trolls because people needle him on his talk page. He literally just stays under his bridge and asks people for money when they cross his bridge, ie his talk page. He doesn't insert his shit into mainspace. None of this would've happened if people didn't goad him so much. — Oxyaena ^Harass 14:47, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

This guy has tried to promote clearly false narratives on this wiki. That is reason enough to ban him. I can live with him here, but censure is called for. You are entitled to apologize for him all you like.Ariel31459 (talk) 17:34, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I honestly feel a bit responsible for all this drama. After all, I vented at Conservapedians on the SB, which then led to KC suggesting we blanket-ban all CP users on here who haven't been banned yet (RobSmith and United States, the latter of whom I unbanned and instead binned due to the lack of evidence that he was LT). --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 19:07, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

And also, I think I'd support a ban of this propaganda-pusher. Dunno why Hastur thinks nobs should be more welcome here than LGM because "mUh fReEzEpEaCh". Congrats on scaring off an effective, long-term editor, Hastur. /s --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 19:12, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Exactly. We've already lost two valuable editors from this single incident, and are on track to lose more. Is an unproductive troll worth this? IveBeenFrank (talk) 19:17, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

We should open a vote on RobSmith's blocking/banning/promotion as soon as we hit 24 hours, before we lose any more editors. Long-term trolling that leads to the departure of such valuable editors is grounds for banning, IMHO. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 19:24, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I vehemently reject the decision to falsely pick between editors on any grounds. Anyone who does so proclaims themselves to be above our Community Standards in deciding who gets to be here or not. KC has presented a good case here, and while I for now am undecided how I'll vote (like it or not, nobs doesn't exactly venture outside of his own talkpage or the saloon that much compared to most trolls we have as Oxy said, which makes him far less of a threat than most nutcases we have to deal with), I will not ever cave for those kinds of attempts. It's straight up emotional blackmailing. Nobs is the last person I want to defend over this, I will make no secret of that, but I will not do a "we get rid of nobs for Duce and LGM back". While I would love it if both of those editors came back (legitimately, even if Duce is probably very pissed at me for cooping him), caving to such arguments breeds toxicity and the notion that any editor can barter based on their own relative activity compared to other editors (am I literally the only one who can compare that reasoning to shit GR tried to pull several times?) I don't need anyone to apologize to Nobs, I get the outrage, I get the anger. But stop making these false dilemmas. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 19:28, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

By the way, my blanket ban proposal, like so many of my late night proposals, was dumb and should not even be considered. People have gotten out of Andys cult in the past and become productive and reasonable members here. Rob, not so much.

As for Hastur, he used to be accused of being a troll and people like Ace and Nutty had called for him to be banned[1][2]. So I guess he has a soft spot for fellow trolls. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 19:33, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Ditto on the reformed CP users. I mean, look at Sievert, who got demoted (by CP standards), talkpage-burned, and shunned as a heretic by Anger Bear for becoming disillusioned with Trump and, going from what he's said on talk pages, coming out as an atheist Republican (or in old Swabbie's parlance, a "RINO") and self-admitted antitheist. Contrary to what I initially expected, that user has obeyed his topic-ban of biology-related articles for woo-pushing, now mostly spending his days dissing CP and Trump on talkpages. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 20:39, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Nobs is a toxic turd whose bigotry has given him a severe disjunction from reality. Any reasonably sane person who's read his unfiltered screeds on CP should be able to recognize this. I support a long-term block or total ban. Bongolian (talk) 19:36, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ This is unreservedly bullshit, KnightComander and the rest of you all know it. How about a single fucking diff for KnightCommander's claim? He can't, cause it did not happen. Now suddenly the claim becomes, "Oh, he wasn't leading an insurrection, he was attacking Antifa." Yes, that is what KnightCommander is saying, he was so emotionally upset about what happened at the Capitol, he decided to spontaneously lash out at critics of Antifa. And that is what he's asking you to do, too. The problem, nobody can produce a single goddam diff to support any of KC's claims.nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 20:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Ask for a diff and you shall receive.[3] And these two are after my block, but they're still same paranoid trolling.[4][5] (By the way, Spencer was still Trump supporter when he organized the rally). Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 20:27, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Bingo. After the block. You think you can suppress shit like this? [6] nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 20:54, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

First diff was from before the block (which I admitted was wrong from me against the community not you). Second and third were included to provide examples of how you remain toxic.

And you're really doing my work for me with those trusworthy sources for your paranoid conspiracy theories. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 20:59, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

BTW, when did Spencer lie to us, when he said he was a Trump supporter or a Biden supporter? nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 21:01, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

@Sirius I'm not saying choose between them; I'm just saying that I think long-term trolling and 1/6 denialism that costs us valuable long-term editors is grounds for banning RobSmith. If we can ban GR for cyberbullying Oxy and making an excess of personal attacks towards everyone who voted for his first permaban attempt, LT for helping Ken

write what could almost be worthy of going on the "Kill those who disagree" subreddit, and Kenny himself for excessive homophobia, atheophobia and creaming himself imagining gays having their heads cut off in Brunei being "a setback for DA GAEEZ" and easily-offended British Muslim homophobic crazies and their braindead regressive enablers gaining influence in Britain as a "setback for secularism" despite the latter's smelly socks being fun to "play" with on talkpages before banning them, then I don't see why we can't ban this wannabe insurrectionist troll. --Goatspeed. See what I'm up toCircularRasoningPrototype lab 21:02, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Okay, that's... a good enough reasoning to make me at least consider agreeing to blocking him. I remain unconvinced that he should be perma'ed however, in no small part because of the "staking editors returning against his blocking" precedent it would set. Again, nobs is generally not even disruptive. The guy sticks to his own talkpage and the saloon, where he typically doesn't even start threads but just gives his own (often conspirital) takes. Unlike Ken (spammed our site with his homophobic crap), LT (kept pinging RW members to play telephone game over Conservapedias uptime) and GR (constant edit warring), nobs is completely harmless in this regard. A 3 week/3 month (undecided on which yet) block that has to stick would seem way more appropriate to me. I hate to sound accusatory, but I'm at least having the feeling that a lot of the advocates to permaing nobs aren't exactly in an emotionally stable state due to yesterday's domestic terrorist attack and are seeing him as an outlet to unleash their rage on. I want to stress people to think rationally and look at the presented evidence and the case at hand before they start deciding to permanently block nobs. As of right now, I remain unconvinced that Nobs is such a major disaster that we have to permanently block him. Permanent and long-term blocks are intended for those users who end up massively disrupting the wiki to the point where it becomes impossible to run it with them on the site. Nobs does not reach that level even remotely. A short term block seems way more appropriate for his actions. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 21:23, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I wouldn't be so presumptuous about "emotionally stable". I have long advocated permaban for his past behaviors. Ace has indicated that he was already supportive of permaban, as has LGM. Bongolian (talk) 21:29, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I also wasn't talking about you three (I'm familiar with the irritation present from y'all and a few other editors about nobs for a longer while). Rather, I'm talking about some of the other editors here who are very clearly unleashing all their anger about the insurrection onto nobs. The evidence simply just doesn't convince me that nobs is annoying enough to perma him. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 21:35, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Rationalwiki, in theory, is not all about shitposting on Conservapedia anymore. The problem is not just nobs -- it seems to me like a couple of other editors (notably some people who I think were around in older times when the primary purpose of this wiki was to shitpost on Conservapedia) still "enjoy" getting in shitpost wars with nobs (in fact, they are often the instigators), and that occasionally this has spilled over into coup-level activity on multiple occasions. (It's not a coincidence that a few of these editors are the primary voices wanting to keep things just the way they are.) I would be happy if everyone who is here primarily to Conservapedia shitpost (whether it is from one direction or another) stopped. No one cares about Conservapedia anymore, and nobs's talk page crap is a distraction from the main current mission (mainly because it *has* lead to multiple HCMs). If a permaban of nobs would accomplish this, great. If other methods can accomplish this, great. Just my 2c. PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 22:02, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Perfectly expressed my feelings on the matter. IveBeenFrank (talk) 22:06, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

(ec)KC, Oh, now you're saying a Twitter vid from an anonymous citizen in the crowd is a deep fake. And I'm the conspiracy theorist? Sorry, but 74 million of your fellow citizens respectfully disagree with you. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 21:06, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm not your fellow citizen. I only have about 5.5 million fellow citizens.

And I'm not Richard Spencer either, you'd have to ask him. But I assume he wasn't lying when he said he supported Trump. Then it turned out that Trump was lying about being non interventionist (at Middle East), so Spencer changed his mind about him. Even some Nazis apparently can do that when confronted with evidence. Not sure how sincere his endorsement of Biden was. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 21:12, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

"Fifty Million Frenchmen can't be wrong!" Bongolian (talk) 21:11, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Both of you: Those are all interesting alternative facts. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 21:17, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Endorsement for pausing or better yet ending this endless saga with nobs

• Extremely high endorse. Will vote for every block and ban ShabiDOO 21:10, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  The way to end it is to ban him. The saga is years-long. Bongolian (talk) 21:14, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  (ec)Well, I got Portland mayor Ted Wheeler on my side. He's suddenly become a critic of Antifa it seems. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 21:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

• Same here. If we can ban Kenny for his excessive male chauvinist piggery, homophobia, atheophobia, and fatwa envy, then we can ban nobs for his 1/6 denialism and long-term trolling that has led to 2 major LANCBs. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 21:16, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

• Obviously. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 21:18, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  Hide your head in the sand. I'll bet $50 one of Biden's priorities is turn on you and your beloved Antifa. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 21:19, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  How easy life is when a clear, present, continuous enemy can be created as a means to justify why you spend all your time trolling small websites and live in fear. Oh, and bonus points for the use of the word "antifa." Can't have a paranoid screed nowadays without it. IveBeenFrank (talk) 21:23, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  It's just as Machiavelli said, no one is of greater threat to you once you achieve power than those who helped you achieve it. If they have the ability to give you power, they have the ability to take it away. That's why Hitler turned on the SA and why Biden will turn on Antifa. Trump's failure was not turning on the MAGA hordes, who ultimately are being held responsible for Trump losing power. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 21:26, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  And here I thought you knew at least something about politics. Antifa's been hurting Biden's campaign from day one. He's trying to avoid the left as much as possible, and reach out through the center. From his campaign's perspective, and the perspective of most pundits, antifa is a threat. They didn't help him win the election, they helped close the gap between him and Trump. IveBeenFrank (talk) 21:35, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  Antifa catapulted Biden into power. It's in the Congressional Record now for future generations to read about the events of this historic day. The Chaplain asked God to bless Antifa. [7] nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 21:41, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  So your evidence is one house chaplain (a man with political leanings, no doubt), said? Quote mining at its finest. I remember reading countless articles from conservative publications saying how BLM and Antifa would hand the election to Trump, and the polls reflected some shifts in the electorate. Biden knows Antifa's been hurting him since day one. Are you dumber than Biden? IveBeenFrank (talk) 21:46, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  Rumor is, with video evidence, Antifa was escorted into the Trump crowd in chartered buses. Historical narratives write themselves. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 21:51, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  Oh yes, especially when they're fictional. Weasel words like rumor is throws out the truth in favor of whatever narrative that benefits one's views. IveBeenFrank (talk) 21:54, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  Antifa spared Kelly Loeffler from objecting to her own state of Georgia. And she's not even running for anything. As well as such constitutional scholars as Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz. These narratives are yet to be written.

  Meanwhile, as we speak here, thousands of eyewitnesses are composing their own contemporaneous records of events. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 22:06, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  Rob's inability to tell the difference between "bless and keep us" and "bless antifa" is as ridiculous as this site's inability to ban him. This place is a fucking toilet. Nutty Roux (talk) 22:58, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  (EC)Might come as a surprise to you, but I'm not huge fan of Antifa due to some of them resorting to non defensive violence. I still think your tendency to blame them on everything is a sign of derangement common to many rigtwing reactionaries.

  Also, I doubt Biden can do much about me personally unless he decides to declare war to Europe. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 21:28, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  Do you really think Biden, with his 47 years D.C. experience, is excited about being married Antifa? Harris is another question. The only question now is can he deal with them before Harris takes over. And remember, Trump's fate awaits both of them for failure to deal with the crazies in their midst. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 21:37, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

• Yes to a ban. Yes to an extremely long block. yes to changing his sig to nobs^{Village Idiot} Ariel31459 (talk) 21:30, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
• 3 weeks or 3 months. Permanent is excessive. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 21:36, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  We have already done that in the past, and yet he still returned and kept on trolling. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 21:39, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  Bullshit. I returned to deal with the trolls on my talk page. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 21:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  Nobs is actually right here (aside from the trolls bit, our editors aren't trolls). Nobs keeps acting like an idiot here because people keep needling him with requests for his takes. Outside of his own talkpage he's made very little edits. It's not enough to warrant permaing him. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 21:54, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  Sirius: may I ask what punishment you would propose for changing nobs' sig? Because every time I see it I have the urge to change it to "don't ask me, I'm a jackass" or "Rob Smith V.I. (village idiot)" etc.Ariel31459 (talk) 21:56, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  You don't. It's immature and you should be better than that. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 22:01, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  Thank you. I should have used the word "bait" instead of "troll". Next time I'll keep my mouth shut, and we all can be stupider for it. nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 22:10, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  Very well. We can include loss of signature modification rights in the penalty phase. Ariel31459 (talk) 22:26, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  That would be vandalism and a CS violation in and of itself (we don't edit other people's comments except in specific circumstances that are defined in the CS). You are not modifying anyone's signature over the outcome of this. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 22:40, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  Perhaps I was unclear. My suggestion was that it would be voted on, not that I should change anything.Ariel31459 (talk) 22:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

  Word it in a way we can apply it as a sanction and I'll vote for that. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 14:07, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

PSA

Hiya, folks. It's me, Twodots. I'm about to go on a long, long trek through Nobs's contribs in search of bannable content. Stay tuned... Twodots (talk) 22:29, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm going to have to go through over ten years of contributions. Yikes. Time to buckle down... Twodots (talk) 22:37, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm flattered. Hey, I got a load of dirty underwear here. You want me to FedEx it to you, as well? nobs^{Hell to the Thief!} 22:39, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes. The feds might find all that DNA of some use.DocYankem^{Prevent Truth Decay!}22:48, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Best of luck, kid. It'll help convince people that this isn't just anger-based or a false dilemma between keeping LGM and Duce, who might just return after a while like I did a few months after I went on a super-long hiatus after discovering and having to clean up after the remaining legacy of Mona's brigade and their edit-wars (as well as the bad-faith actors on the other side of the I/P drama that legitimately took us to HCM 1). I never told anyone because I didn't want to make it sound like a complete LANCB and lead people to mourn me as such. (But then again, that was when I wasn't half as relevant as I am today.)

Anyway, the point is, as I pointed out above other editors have been banned for similar shit-stirring. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 22:45, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Yo, Nobbsie, lookie what I found! A violent threat and a Soros conspiracy theory! Fun times. Can't wait to get your sorry ass banned- there's still ten years of joy to go! Twodots (talk) 22:56, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Ahhh, I see how this works. You bring a Coop case, then after 23 hours you decide to try find evidence as the basis of the Coop.

I think what may be a shorter process would be to go back and amend Community Standards to include ex post factp violations, ratify the vote, then have a vote on the Coop case. nobs^{Enter at your own risk} 23:01, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Look how he wriggles, look how he writhes; rip out his soul, rip out his eyes! Begone, foul Nobs, return to CP, and never return to RationalWiki! Twodots (talk) 23:05, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Is that a violent threat? nobs^{Enter at your own risk} 23:19, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘It's just a poem, Nobs. Twodots (talk) 23:26, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Twodots, if you find enough evidence, I may switch my vote to perma nobs. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 10:44, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Good to know. I continue my quest... Twodots (talk) 17:57, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Not bannable content, but I thought it was funny.[8] Twodots (talk) 18:11, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

A violent threat, @Twodots, are you fucking kidding me? How about you look at the full context of the thread. But hell, this is the level of intellectual rigor I'm seeing from the "ban Rob" crowd.-Hastur! (talk) 18:22, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

It was an honest mistake, Hastur. Chill the fuck out- I'm going through ten years of nobby-ness. It's bound to rot my brain a little. Twodots (talk) 18:32, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Please, share with us the real evidence.-Hastur! (talk) 18:35, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Like I said, I'm going through ten years of Rob's bland, mindless blathering. It's going to take a while. You're welcome to assist- it'll be more productive than dramatically voting to ban yourself. Twodots (talk) 18:37, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

I've been on this website for 10 years. There is no evidence.-Hastur! (talk) 18:41, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

I doubt that you've been watching Rob's contribs for every second of that timespan, so you probably wouldn't have noticed. Fuck off or make yourself useful. Twodots (talk) 18:45, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

A Modest Proposal

As it seems unlikely that any cogent solution will be produced for this conflict, I propose the following pledge:

• I will cease communication with RobSmith unless absolutely necessary.
• I will avoid any dispute involving RobSmith.
• I will not engage RobSmith on any page, especially his talk page.
• In the event that RobSmith inappropriately edits an article or talk page, I will only revert his edits. I will not otherwise respond.

Sign your name below to indicate that you have taken this pledge. I took inspiration from PanGalacticGargleBlaster's post. I hope to eliminate any foolish and unproductive conflicts and coop cases from Rob's tomfoolery.

1. IveBeenFrank (talk) 22:26, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
2. This will be a lot easier to follow up on after nobs has been banned. DocYankem^{Prevent Truth Decay!}22:37, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
3. Per above- especially since many have been seriously considering voting for perma. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 01:35, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
4. I would sign and implore all other users to do so as well. If nobs gets bored and decides to come out of his bridge with hot conspiracy takes, then we can ban him. Electros^[goldswords] 11:36, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

* dons Mod Hat * 

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold your horses. It hasn't been 24 hours yet. Just wait a couple more hours before voting. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 22:46, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

It's just a pledge CR, not a penalty.Ariel31459 (talk) 22:49, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes. No punishment of any sort is discussed for Nobs, and is purely voluntary - not binding in any sort. IveBeenFrank (talk) 22:58, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Oh alright. Welp, now it looks like we're past 24 hours, so shall we start voting? --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 01:34, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Sure. One mod suggested a three month block for nobs and a requirement not to use his signature to troll sensitive souls here at the outpost of rationality. What do you and @Sirius want to do?Ariel31459 (talk) 01:53, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

For the longest time, I wasn't sure myself yet. I know that nobs wasn't get off scott-free, no matter what he tries to claim. I explained my specific reasons in the vote below, but I've since come to a conclusion. Demanding him to not abuse his sig is perhaps a good start. Personally I also want to ask longer-time members to try and avoid pointlessly needling nobs (because it's mostly them). We're all aiming at nobs here because his behavior is the easiest to rebuke, but keep in mind that his presence here is for 99% completely reactionary. He only shows up here if someone asks him for his view or complains in his inbox. He's not going out of the way to be a disruptive asshat like about... 99% of the trolls we deal with on a daily basis or the users who make themselves a big problem over inability to cooperate. In the spirit of that, I cannot in good judgement vote for permablocking nobs. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 08:57, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Alright, let's vote: Block/ban for RobSmith's 1/6 denialist trolling and general long-term trolling that has caused major editors to LANCB and sowed doubt about how effectively moderated our site is

All sanctions are comulative. Pi days plus pi months equals pi days PLUS pi months etc.

π days

Yea

1. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 01:55, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
2. ShabiDOO 05:55, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
3. Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 07:05, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
4. Since I highly doubt permabanning will actually pass...-Flandres (talk) 07:40, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Nay

1. Waste of time. Bongolian (talk) 04:18, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

   Votes are cumulative remember ^{— Unsigned, by: Shabidoo / talk / contribs}

   That is not in the RationalWiki:Community Standards. Bongolian (talk) 18:25, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

2. Considering Nobs' long history of talk page trolling π days isn't long enough.SolPyre (talk) 04:52, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
3. Too short. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 08:46, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
4. Nah. Judge Dredd (talk) 09:39, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
5. A couple people needle Nobs on his talk page, he replies, and this is banworthy?-Hastur! (talk) 18:19, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

   Way to just trivialize the premise, Hastur. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 18:28, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

6. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 02:16, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
7. Scream!! (talk) 06:55, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Goat

• It's basically the same length as the coop. So, whatever. CoryUsar (talk) 07:39, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

π weeks

Yea

1. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 01:55, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
2. ShabiDOO 05:55, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
3. Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 07:06, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
4. ...owing to idiotic arguments from a minority of older users who can abuse the 2/3rds rule and will do anything to give Trumpian Fascism a platform...-Flandres (talk) 07:40, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
5. Given the presented evidence, this is a bare minimum of what should be enacted. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 08:46, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

   What evidence?????-Hastur! (talk) 18:19, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Nay

1. Considering Nobs' long history of talk page trolling π weeks isn't long enough.SolPyre (talk) 04:52, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

   Votes are comulative ShabiDOO 05:55, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

   I didn't know that but my vote stands, I think 4 months is too long, π months is the target to aim for in my opinion. SolPyre (talk) 16:52, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

   That is not in the RationalWiki:Community Standards.

2. Been there, done that. He hasn't learned jack shit. Bongolian (talk) 04:18, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
3. Nah. Judge Dredd (talk) 09:39, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
4. A couple people needle Nobs on his talk page, he replies, and this is banworthy?-Hastur! (talk) 18:18, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

   Way to just trivialize the premise, Hastur. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 18:28, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

5. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 02:16, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
6. Scream!! (talk) 06:55, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

π months

Yea

1. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 01:55, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
2. Ariel31459 (talk) 02:14, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
3. In case the permaban fails. Bongolian (talk) 04:18, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
4. Nobs' aim is to get a rise out of people, not to participate, but nobs keeps his trolling on the talk pages.SolPyre (talk) 04:52, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
5. ShabiDOO 05:55, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
6. Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 07:09, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
7. ...I will vote for all of these punishments still thinking they are too merciful and only vote for permaban because there is a tiny chance it might somehow succeed...-Flandres (talk) 07:40, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
8. Possibly closer to what's deserved. That said, this seems an adequate punishment as well. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 08:46, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
9. Only in case the permaban fails. TallMan (talk) 16:07, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
10. In case the permanent ban fails. —cosmikdebris ^talk stalk 16:57, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
11. Ditto with CD and Bongo. Twodots (talk) 18:10, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
12. Only if perma doesn’t pass 💙 ASELA^{និយាយ} 💙 21:50, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Nay

1. See Voltaire. CoryUsar (talk) 07:35, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

   Given that Voltaire was a raging antisemite, it would be useful if you clarified yourself. Bongolian (talk) 09:07, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

   Probably "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it", even though Voltaire never said that. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 09:12, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

   Had to look it up, apparently a biographer used that statement as a summary for him, rather than him saying it himself. TIL... Also, apparently he was also incredibly Islamiphobic but absolutely adored Hinduism, which brings up a lot of questions. Mainly things like "...why?" CoryUsar (talk) 16:32, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

2. Nah. Judge Dredd (talk) 09:40, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
3. A couple people needle Nobs on his talk page, he replies, and this is banworthy?-Hastur! (talk) 18:16, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

   Way to just trivialize the premise, Hastur. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 18:28, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

4. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 02:16, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
5. Scream!! (talk) 06:55, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Goat

• I recused myself from voting for a month after my brief LANCB ended a week ago. Unfortunately that means that, out of principle, I can't vote here. If I could, I'd vote for this and full ban and against everything shorter as meaningless. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 06:54, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Permaban

Yea

1. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 01:55, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
2. Ariel31459 (talk) 02:13, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
3. Let's do the right thing here. Magic Master (talk) 02:35, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
4. Bongolian (talk) 04:18, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
5. ShabiDOO 05:55, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
6. Hmhmhmhmhmhmhmhm...-Flandres (talk) 07:40, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
7. Yeah. Judge Dredd (talk) 09:41, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
8. Yeah. — Oxyaena ^Harass 15:35, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
9. I don't know why he's been allowed to stay this long. TallMan (talk) 16:05, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
10. Earlier I was of the opinion that this user had not seriously breached the community standards. This whole debacle has changed my mind. —cosmikdebris ^talk stalk 16:56, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
11. Literally every time he opens his mouth we end up in HCM. Just end this shit and get Duce and LeftyGreenMario back.Evilatheistheathen (talk) 15:13, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
12. KC's dirt-digging has re-convinced me to vote for perma. Twodots (talk) 17:45, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
13. Upon further consideration, in the light of the evidence presented by KC, nobs does not have my benefit of the doubt anymore. Specifically, the breaking point for me was him supporting the coop proposal of Flynn and the current blaming of basically that as basically a false flag. I flipped based on this information. This kind of behavior is unacceptable. I want to stress however that further attempts to create false dilemmas by editors threatening LANCBing if someone isn't banned will be met from my end with a recommendation to let the door hit them on their way out. That crap should not be normalized, ever. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 17:50, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

    Kindly indicate where in the community standards it forbids belief in conspiracy theories.-Hastur! (talk) 18:24, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

    Offensive material is on RW:BLOCK. Being an a participant on the wiki in spreading this material is unacceptable. Furthermore, he's been racist again with the China did covid bullshit. Also, Soros conspiracies are inherently anti-semetic because Soros is just a stand-in for jewish people in those conspiracies. Those grounds enough for violations specifically? Like I said however, the breaking point for me to perma nobs is the active push to instigate the domestic terror attack by backing Flynns insane ramblings. Before I had the assumption that people were holding nobs responsible for the terror attack because of his status as a Conservapedia editor. It appears however that isn't the case and that nobs had expressed support for such behavior. If that hadn't happened, I'd still stick for up to 3 months, but he did and I'm not putting up with that. Does this cover your concerns as to why I put that at the forefront? Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 19:17, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

    You are simply incorrect. The fact that I did not headline the Trump Rally in DC in the days before January 6 from my platform at CP MPR out of fear of violence is enough reason to refute your false allegations. My writings are purely historical in nature, a well-sourced contemporaneous chronicle of events. nobs^{Enter at your own risk} 21:04, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

    I warned of violence from insurrectionists so that true Patriots would stand clear. nobs^{Enter at your own risk} 21:09, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

14. My first action here in months is to vote to bad this dishonest miscreant.𝔖𝔲𝔪𝔪𝔞 𝔄𝔱𝔥𝔢𝔬𝔩𝔬𝔤𝔦𝔠𝔞 (𝔮𝔲𝔢𝔯𝔢𝔩𝔦𝔰) (𝔰𝔠𝔯𝔦𝔭𝔱𝔲𝔯𝔞) 19:41, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
15. Maxinum punitive punishments Just Work. CoyoteSans (talk) 22:08, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
16. IveBeenFrank (talk) 16:37, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
17. Way more trouble than he's worth, and he doesn't change. Dave Wise (talk) 18:42, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
18. Esketit 💙 ASELA^{និយាយ} 💙 21:49, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Nay

1. He hasn't done anything even moderately bad recently. This is because some of us are pissed at a bunch of crazy conservatives storming the capitol building, so we're rounding up the conservatives on this site. That sort of thinking and mentality terrifies me. CoryUsar (talk) 07:34, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
2. See CoryUsar. And π months are definitely enough. Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 07:42, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
3. A couple people needle Nobs on his talk page, he replies, and this is banworthy?-Hastur! (talk) 18:16, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

   Way to just trivialize the premise, Hastur. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 18:28, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

4. Leveraging a clear abuse of tools to then agitate for removal of the editor thus abused is exceptionally poor form, and all those concerned should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 02:10, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
5. Scream!! (talk) 06:56, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Goat

• Here's the facts: I made one edit to my talk page in response to inquiring comments. I said the attack on the U.S. Capitol appeared to be a false flag. For this, they are now voting on a permaban. nobs^{Enter at your own risk} 03:12, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
• Other people have been around nobs more than I have, if they vote to permaban I won't oppose that.SolPyre (talk) 04:52, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
• I recused myself from voting for a month after my brief LANCB ended a week ago. Unfortunately that means, out of principle, I can't vote here. If I could, I'd vote for this and π months and against everything shorter as meaningless. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 06:54, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
• As stated per my intent earlier, I voted yes for everything aside from days (too short) and permaban (too excessive). We need to be careful with permablocks, and nobs isn't disruptive enough for a permanent block. This might change in the future, but right now that and the fact that I am not a fan of the "major editors LANCBing vs. kicking out nobs" dillema, which this in some form really fucking is make me hesistant to vote for a permanent block on nobs. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 08:46, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

  He's not disruptive at all. Were he hounding other editors around the site or edit-warring in mainspace that'd be one thing. But he's not doing anything banworthy, unless we're counting advocating for conspiracy theories, which is a laughable excuse to ban somebody-Hastur! (talk) 18:39, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

• I don't think Rob has done anything banworthy since his previous block came to an end in November. I think he's a fucking idiot for continuing to claim he has evidence of massive voter fraud in the US election, evidence that Trump's lawyers were unable to provide, but I'm not aware of him saying anything truly offensive since last November. Yes, it's true that in the past he has said sexist, racist, homophobic and transphobic things. If he hadn't been regarded as a special case, as one of RationalWiki's cherished traditions and a link with its past, he probably would have been permabanned a long time ago. Well, he's not regarded as a special case anymore and the current users are nowhere near as sentimental about him. He has served a one month ban for saying offensive things and if he did it again, I'd fully support a longer ban for him. But I just don't think a ban is in order right now. I do, however, fully support the idea of not allowing him to have a special signature anymore. And I'd also like other users to stop poking him with a stick all the time. Don't ask him what he thinks about X, Y or Z. You know the answer already. It's the craziest right-wing thing you can imagine. Just leave him alone and, with any luck, he might leave us alone too. Spud (talk) 13:39, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

  @Spud If you don't want to ban Rob, but a longer block, you should vote. Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 13:59, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

  @Kevlarstar The thing is, I don't think he's done anything that deserves any kind of block in the past two months. I was saying that I could see a hypothetical situation in the future in which he might say something sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic or highly offensive in some other way again. Then I would vote for a longer block and possibly a permaban. Rob should know that he doesn't have a free pass to say whatever he likes anymore, not like he used to. However, if he does get permabanned in this Coop, I won't be sorry and I won't miss him. Spud (talk) 00:59, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Ineligible

• I was against it until he blamed the UTR terrorist attack on Biden supporters and claimed the 2021 Far-right insurrection was ALL Antifa. Bye. Sievert 81 (talk) 05:00, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

  Dude, you aren‘t even autopatrolled. Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 14:40, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

  That's not needed. That said, @Sievert 81 your account is just a bit too new. According to our guidelines about eligiblity your account needs to be 3 months old to vote. That will happen on the 17th this month. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )}

Nobs is a horrible fucking person but...

But I am going to abstain from this vote for two reasons... 1) It isn't in the mantra or ethos of how RW operates (as, I think, the longest term user here, 12 years now, I remember the original values and direction this site was going to take) and 2) I want Nobs to fuck off because his views are poisonous and disgusting. So I hold 2 conflicting positions. If it comes down to a mod vote or mod action is required I will act in accordance with the mob. But I recuse myself from the process. Ace^Moderator 02:17, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

The timing is bad. At a time our nation needs healing, what's the point in harboring vendettas? nobs^{Enter at your own risk} 03:05, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Why is it that Trumpists seem to think that everything must be overpoliticized that aren't really problems, from having platforms on social media owned and run by the private sector (because mUh fReEzEpEaCh) to a small wiki project that most people instantly dismiss as "Irrational" on account of name alone because "muh hurt fee-fees cuz I wanted Trump to win boo hoo hoo stop being so mean to me"? --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 03:23, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

As far as ethos of RW. The ethos is mob rule, which can override the rules if it so pleases.

Typical, short-sighted thinking. First there was Obamunism, then came Trumpism. Now George W, Bush, who was hated and reviled as much, if not moreso than Trump, and blamed for everything including the hemorrhoids on your ass, is now held up by these same haters as a model of civility and honor. In a few years I suspect you'll be praising Trump in order to trash President Candace Owens.

The GOP establishment and the MAGA party are now having to decide what direction they wish to go, to stay together or split. The DNC faces the same type of implosion between the elitist establishment Bidenistas (few in number) and the more radical DSA types. But I suspect you are too married to buzzwords that trigger you, and you and I will always see things diferently. nobs^{Enter at your own risk} 03:45, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Every time the GOP gets caught fucking up the country, some bumpkin says lets all be friends again and sing Kumbaya (then lets fuck you up again). Fuck your Kumbaya. Bongolian (talk) 04:14, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Well, this time both Democrats and Republicans in Congress, shooken up by the coup attempt by what I've decided to call "antidem", voted to certify by an overwhelming margin, with even some Republicans roasting the shit out of Trumpler. If that's not "making politics a yawn again" then I don't know what is. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 05:01, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Okay, you convinced me. I'm joining the Resistance. nobs^{Enter at your own risk} 20:52, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm abstaining out of principle, since after I returned from my LANCB (about the "You Have Two Cows" incident), I promised to recuse myself from all coop and ATIM votes for a month. It pains me, as this is a bit of a pet issue for me now, but one has to hold to their promises at least.

That said, I'd hope as many people as possible would vote on this. And Ace, much as I've come to be friendly with you, I don't think I fully agree with the "ethos" thing. Even you, back in the olden days, supported bans or really long blocks of trolls like TK, MC and brx. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 07:03, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Turnout is already quite high. The most popular currently seem to be the pi-month and the perma; i.e. the two that make the most sense. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 07:34, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Opposing side really hasn't turned up yet, apart from Cory. I know there are others like Hastur and probably Oxy who will vote against longer sentences (and Sirius has also hinted that he is opposed to full ban). Unless Yay side shows up en-masse, the ban will probably not pass. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 07:41, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm not going to be too sad he's gone, but I gave my reasons. If not enough people agree with me, so be it. CoryUsar (talk) 07:43, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm a he fwiw, but I don't mind the confusion. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 08:47, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Oh, I'm sorry for the mix up. Pronoun corrected. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 08:49, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

I intend on joining Ace in abstaining from this vote (yes, I've seen JD's section below, but I think that Nobs' and Raven's scenarios are too different to compare in that way). But I would say this - Nobs is hardly active on RW. Most of his edits are on his talk page, responding to people who 'poke' him. Nobs hadn't edited since before Christmas until 2 days ago, in which people were quizzing him over the Capitol riots - there was no reason to do this, it was fairly obvious Nobs would say stuff like that. I also see that some of the people wanting him banned wanting him banned are people who 'poke' him on his talk page, on this occasion and on previous occasions. Going forward, if Nobs doesn't get permabanned (always difficult to tell at these early stages), I'd strongly encourage people just to stay away from his talk page and much of the drama would likely fade away. --RWRW (talk) 20:37, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

On abstaining

Any user who voted to permaban Raven, yet abstains from, or votes against, permabanning nobs, is by virtue of their inconsistency endorsing the use of this site for promotion of, transphobia, sexism, Qanon conspiracy theories, et al. The very fact that users here believe nobs many years of promoting actual fucking fascism, is less banworthy than a progressive irritating them briefly, is the very cliche of liberals siding with fascists. You will be the first to be shot in the revolution at this rate. Total joke. Judge Dredd (talk) 10:11, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

I don't remember how I voted with Rvaven. Nonetheless that was a cool story my man. Can't wait for the movie adaptation. Ace^Moderator 09:40, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

I also voted against permabanning Raven...CoryUsar (talk) 15:34, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

I have yet to see evidence that Nobs is transphobic, and any evidence that he is sexist I've seen largely consists of mediocre jokes-Hastur! (talk) 18:18, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

@Hastur If you wanna marry nobs, just say so.

@Judge Dredd I'm a liberal, yet I was the first to vote "yea" on the permaban and very-long block. Smh you ancoms constantly spew hatred and bile for all who are even slightly closer to the center than you, and yet you seriously wonder why most of the liberals on this site (which is most of us) don't take you seriously. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 18:31, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Dysk is not an ancom, he's an annil. — Oxyaena ^Harass 18:48, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

They're an anarcho-something. Who the fuck cares? Anarchism has more subgenres than metal, and it's adherents are just as snobby about it. Twodots (talk) 18:50, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Apologies, that was overly rude... Twodots (talk) 18:58, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Nah Oxy, don't be pedantic. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 18:50, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Don't worry Two, the Dark Side will get you eventually. Come, we have cookies... Dark... chocolate cookies. The secret ingredient is Hate. CoryUsar (talk) 19:19, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Hrnghh, coooookiiiieees... No, no. I must stay strong, I must resist... Twodots (talk) 19:21, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

When and why the fuck did this turn into Anarchism? Ace^{fuck the bozos} 09:47, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Because of JD's typical anarchist liberal-bashing BS. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 19:36, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

If you favor banning nobs you should approve of abstentions when nobs is clearly losing the vote. Let's not be silly.Ariel31459 (talk) 20:14, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

I am disgusted

That we would ban an editor because others were grandstanding threatening to LANCB if they stayed is gross. If LGM and DM elect to be so immature as to be unable to ignore RobSmith, then that is their problem and it reflects poorly on them.-Hastur! (talk) 18:15, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Fuck man, I agree. Ace^Moderator 21:10, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Me too!Scream!! (talk) 06:58, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Ah yes, another strawman in your usual condescending tone. Their empty threats are not even mentioned in my vote-opening rationale, and if you'll scroll up you'll see that I was quick to shoot down the idea of including that as a rationale. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 18:32, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Does "Alright, let's vote: Block/ban for RobSmith's 1/6 denialist trolling and general long-term trolling that has caused major editors to LANCB and sowed doubt about how effectively moderated our site is" sound familiar?-Hastur! (talk) 18:36, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

What are you even insinuating? (And just to be clear, you do realize that I'm not taking this at all seriously, right?) --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 19:06, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Am I being too subtle? Or subtle at all?-Hastur! (talk) 19:09, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

@Hastur is right. Godamn that bastard is right... Ace^Moderator 09:42, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Angry old men yell at clouds. — Oxyaena ^Harass 13:54, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Tell me more about Anarchism. Sounds like a hoot. Ace^{fuck the bozos} 18:31, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Angry old men still yelling at clouds. — Oxyaena ^Harass 18:59, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

PSA 2

I couldn't find anything on Rob. I didn't get very far, though, and that doesn't mean that bannable content doesn't exist- simply that I couldn't find anything in the tiny portion I saw. There's still about ten years of contributions to go through. Anyway, it was ridiculous for me to assume I could get through ten fucking years on my own- I'd welcome anyone else's attempts. Twodots (talk) 03:41, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm going through all of Nobs edits between being released from his last block (November 3rd) and today. So far I've gone through just his talk page through December 16th and I feel like I need a drink. I've managed to collect some interesting stuff though, like incitement to treason. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 16:35, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Ah, yes, that's probably smarter than going through evidence so old it probably wouldn't even be considered valid... Twodots (talk) 16:38, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

One has to be a nationalist to bring a charge of treason. nobs^{Enter at your own risk} 16:42, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

No, Rob, you really don't. You have to believe in the validity of the state's authority and that intentionally attempting to harm it and it's citizens is wrong. You don't need to believe that the state's authority is above all others to bring up a charge of treason. Twodots (talk) 17:34, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

I get it. If I shout "No border, No Wall, No USA at all!", I am not a traitor, but if I call on elected officials to uphold their oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, I am a traitor. From a leftist perspective, I imagine that makes perfect sense. See how tolerant I am, and able to view all sides of a dispute? nobs^{Enter at your own risk} 18:42, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Ok, I decided to go through Nobs' posts after his last block. Just got through his personal talkpage edits until the day this drama started to unfold (didn't include anything from that day, since most of it's already documented here in coop). I feel like I need to cleanse myself with a shower of caustic acid. Anyway, here's some juicy edits I found. I concentrated primarily to the conspiracy theory stuff, as well as anything doing with inciting (or defending incitement of) violence/treason or other anti-democratic actions (democratic with lower case d, because I'm not referring to the party here). While I'm unhappy about Duce and LGM possibly LANCBing for good, I agree with Sirius that we shouldn't ban people based on which editor we would prefer to have around over another. Also, that kind of emotional blackmailing is indeed pretty low. That said, as I stated in my original apology/indictment of Nobs, in the aftermath of the Capitol attack, I see his habitual pushing of conspiracy theories as dangerous, even if most here probably take them with grain of salt.

I might start to go through rest of his edits tomorrow, but for tonight, this will have to do.

Barely disguised incitement or JAQing off:

Should Trump invoke 14th amendment and arrest Democratic Party leaders and BLM activists? (Rob links to hate site DCDirtyLaundry…few edits later he calls NYT, Politifacts and Michigan Secretary of States office unreliable. Oh the irony) [9] Later Rob argues that Trump’s an idiot because he didn’t invoke it already. [10]

Arguing for why Trump should do as that traitor Michael Flynn suggested and pull a military coup (this should be so damning, that I’m providing bunch of diffs from that thread).[11][12][13][14][15]

Conspiracy Theories of the sort that lead to Attack on Capitol:

Some generic shit about fraudulent ballots.[16][17]

Hunter and Joe Biden colluded with Chinese military (no evidence provided) [18] Presumably the collusion was to create Covid19. [19] This is followed by more about Covid19 having been made in Chinese lab, and Biden apparently owns 10 percent of some suspicious Chinese company. [20] He later provides some link to archive page which indicates that Hunter Biden was on the board of Sinohawk. Apparently this was from NYT, which according to Nobs is unreliable (that’s irrelevant, but I put it there for the giggles anyway). Also, no mention of Joe Biden, or how this relates to Covid19. [21]

Biden stole the election using SCORECARD and so did Obama [22] Rob links to the highly trusworthy The American Report. The claim is refuted here if you’re interested. [23]

Communist subversion of democracy is being done by “Soros” Secretaries of State (sic).[24]

This is just a work of art when it comes to Unified Conspiracy Theory.[25]

Is this what FEMA concentration camps are called in the future?[26] Regardless, nobs is already keeping track of Biden Juntas human rights violations and crimes against humanity 1.5 months before he’s sworn in.[27]

Explaining his sig with another election fraud conspiracy theory.[28]

Biden’s going to pack the courts.[29][30]

Here we get to the idea of Congress and Senate changing the winner of the election. You know, what the Capitol Raid was all about.[31] He argues it’s been done before[32] to avoid another Civil War. I don’t know enough about that part of U.S. history to say whether this is true. If Duce was still around, I’m sure he could enlighten me. In the meantime, maybe someone else can. Sounds like Nobs is making a subtle threat of Civil War though, unless Congress will hand the victory to Trump.

• Nobs comment: Why don't you link to the archived links Biden Putsch and U.S Color Revolution, created in June 2020, and tell us how a) which of it has not come to pass, and b) attack/criticized some of the sourcing? nobs^{Enter at your own risk} 18:52, 9 January 2021 (UTC)
• Excerpted: The network enlisted the several key players including Lisa Fithian, a long-time Democrat terror organizer and trainer including stints with Occupy Wall Street, the Obama Ferguson Riots and various unions. In the leaked Zoom chat describing tools and tactics to shut down DC, Fithian states: "Whoever’s got the guns can win – let’s take over the buildings! We are going to be in a crisis but we want it to be one that we are creating. We want to make sure that we are on the offense and not the defense. We want them to be responding to us and not us responding to them." ShutDownDC. nobs^{Enter at your own risk} 19:19, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Thinly veiled threats:

We’re not going to give up. [33] [34]

This is a bit vague, but I sense a threat here (also Yamamoto almost certainly didn’t actually say that): [35]

Finally @Ace McWicked, sorry to bring this up buddy, but I feel betrayed. [36] Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 17:28, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Well shit, KC. That'll do. Twodots (talk) 17:34, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Re-adding my vote for perma now. Twodots (talk) 17:43, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

In what universe is any of that banworthy? Especially those "threats." Do you really construe that as nobs making a threat?-Hastur! (talk) 18:19, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Back when LGM was a moderator, Nobs sent a direct email to her that she interpreted as racist. Nobs managed to convince her that it wasn't (intended as) racist and apologized. She accepted his apology, and that was the end of it. Given Nob's recent racist sig (for which he was punished in the coop), I (and I believe LGM) think that that acceptance was a mistake and that this is just a pattern of constructing offensive statements that he knows how to weasel out of should the need arise. Bongolian (talk) 18:35, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

You were saying?-Hastur! (talk) 18:42, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

You have the power as Sysop to ban yourself. It's been done. No one's stopping you. Bongolian (talk) 19:44, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Ban Hastur (closed due to misuse)

This vote has been closed. Please do not add, remove or change votes. The result of this vote was: Misuse of coop vote. --RWRW (talk) 20:04, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

We are banning RobSmith for believing in conspiracy theories. We are banning him on the grounds that his views are incorrect and offensive. I have spoken out in defense of RobSmith. Many in the community would therefore see my own views as incorrect. And they have expressed offense at my view that we shouldn't ban him. Ergo my own views can be construed as incorrect and offensive. If disagreeing is a bannable offense, then I, too, ought to be banned. It's only fair.-Hastur! (talk) 18:12, 8 January 2021 (UTC) Ban Hastur Forever Yes -Hastur! (talk) 18:12, 8 January 2021 (UTC) I mean, if that's what you want. Twodots (talk) 18:26, 8 January 2021 (UTC) I am more than willing to oblige Brx's wish. — Oxyaena Harass 18:47, 8 January 2021 (UTC) Alright, since you insist on this being a serious vote... but really, this doesn't move me either way, as this vote was not at all sanctioned, and even if you were cooped (which you're not), the CS that you so prize specifically states that no voting can start within 24 hours of filing. --Goatspeed. See what I'm up toCircularRasoningPrototype lab 18:47, 8 January 2021 (UTC) Like, if you can't handle not being a mod or the broader fact that rationalwiki has changed in the last, oh, decade or so...why are you here? You seem too thin skinned.-Flandres (talk) 18:57, 8 January 2021 (UTC) No Goat Not impressed by Hasturs bleating. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 18:54, 8 January 2021 (UTC) Can we just talk about how melodramatic hastur is being right now? A community he used to participate in has changed culturally as older members leave and newer ones join, so by the time he came back the majority of users had very different views about many things, included but not limited to blocking policy. And here he is, shrieking about it like it is the collapse of civilization into heathen savagery and the lapse of liberty and virtue into tyranny and decadence.-Flandres (talk) 18:57, 8 January 2021 (UTC) Pearl-clutching at it's finest... Twodots (talk) 19:00, 8 January 2021 (UTC) @Flandres Ooooh! Burn! --Goatspeed. See what I'm up toCircularRasoningPrototype lab 19:03, 8 January 2021 (UTC) He's a martyr, you know? — Oxyaena Harass 19:04, 8 January 2021 (UTC) Hastur = Jesus. It all makes sense now... Twodots (talk) 19:08, 8 January 2021 (UTC) More like Hastur = White Knight. --Goatspeed. See what I'm up toCircularRasoningPrototype lab 19:14, 8 January 2021 (UTC) Hastur, get a grip. Stop whining and wailing like a child. And to think people on this site (myself included) used to respect you. How naive I was. IveBeenFrank (talk) 19:05, 8 January 2021 (UTC) While I anti-endorsed his mod campaign and only cast four votes in the election so I wouldn't have to vote for him, I still begrudgingly respected him, especially when he filed the SB shitposter range-block case- until now, when he reveals just how much he can't cope with change due to our wiki's community growing. --Goatspeed. See what I'm up toCircularRasoningPrototype lab 19:11, 8 January 2021 (UTC) Baaaah! Bongolian (talk) 19:22, 8 January 2021 (UTC) Stop being a martyr over fucking nobs. I didn't vote for permaing nobs (..yet) but your behavior alone is making me doubt this choice just based on the melodrama you make by doing this. There's plenty of issues to really fall in your own sword over if it comes to it. Nobs is not one of them. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 19:30, 8 January 2021 (UTC) You see what you've done, Hastur? Your behavior isn't helping your trite defenses of nobs whatsoever. All you've done now is chip away your last vestiges of credibility that somehow remained after you tried to AFD a joke template that's used on a shitload of talkpages, and I would say you've beclowned yourself, but that's insulting to clowns. --Goatspeed. See what I'm up toCircularRasoningPrototype lab 19:34, 8 January 2021 (UTC) He is not merely a clown- he is the entirety of the circus. Hastur, you got the whole squad laughin'. Twodots (talk) 19:39, 8 January 2021 (UTC) That's insulting to circuses. --Goatspeed. See what I'm up toCircularRasoningPrototype lab 19:46, 8 January 2021 (UTC) Yeesh, what isn't an insulting comparison? Twodots (talk) 19:49, 8 January 2021 (UTC) <Charlie Brown's teacher's voice>Wa waugh wa wauau wauah wawa.</Charlie Brown's teacher's voice> —cosmikdebris talk stalk 19:50, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

When will the voting end

?Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 08:04, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

As per RationalWiki:Community Standards#Voting, between 7-14 days after start of voting. Generally a mod (or sysop) decides that voting has petered out at some point in that time range, tallies up the votes and announces the outcome. Bongolian (talk) 08:31, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Feckless Mollycoddles

I knew you wouldn't ban me. That would require intellectual honesty and a consistent application of principles-Hastur! (talk) 18:21, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Oh yes, how unfair the world is, and how outraged you are! IveBeenFrank (talk) 18:33, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Indeed-Hastur! (talk) 18:45, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

You keep using those words. I don't think you know what they mean. — Oxyaena ^Harass 18:58, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

English is my second language. Do enlighten me, though-Hastur! (talk) 19:01, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Indeed Hastur we are soooooo ashamed of ourselves. ShabiDOO 19:08, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Please translate that into Esperanto for me, that I may better understand it-Hastur! (talk) 19:11, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

You're a well known apologist of platforming bigotry on this wiki. You fail to recognize that places change in cultural values as old members leave and new members join. You still think this is the 2000s, it's not. — Oxyaena ^Harass 19:15, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

You're right, this site has far fewer members than it used to-Hastur! (talk) 19:17, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Then why are you here? Clearly the site and times have changed, you haven't, so why are you here? — Oxyaena ^Harass 19:49, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Isn't it obvious? He is here to make rationalwiki great again! His long record of saying even pedos like Tisane should not be banned(look at the archived coop case) shows he emobides the true spirit of this community, which why this community totally elected him mod and none of those stupid younger users he constanly rants about!-Flandres (talk) 19:59, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

@Flandres I resent you saying that to the point where I will deign reply to you. First of all, if you look at the coop vote at the time there was quite a vigorous and productive debate as to what ought to be done with Tisane, and my point of view was largely the same as a number of other prominent editors, even some far more respected than I was at the time. Moreover, if you look here, you'll see that in fact I expressed ambivalence over my vote, and made it clear that I would not have voted as such in hindsight.-Hastur! (talk) 07:14, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Hastur tried to make a principled point, then blamed the mob for not banning him. The principle, if one believes it, though would hold Hastur just as responsible for not banning himself (which as a Sysop he is capable of doing). Bongolian (talk) 20:04, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

To be fair, he was well on his way to being banned before RWRW rightfully closed the vote for being a "Misuse of coop vote" (or for being petty grandstanding as I like to read that). Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 20:07, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Honestly, if RWRW hadn't done it, I'd probably have done it myself. This dumb "to be consistent, you must ban me too" shit is on the same degree of dumbfuckery and emotional blackmail as the staking of LANCBs of other editors. FFS Hastur, I thought you were an adult. Start acting like one. Next time you might find that this kinda shit will carry consequences as someone might not be sympathetic enough to close your vote as being dishonest crap. You've worn out basically all my patience with you on disputes over this crud. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 20:48, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Ah yes, good ol' Hasturian pearl-clutching. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 21:35, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Hastur, It seems you have accepted the duties of wiki devil's advocate here. While I do not find it as exasperating as some do, you should consider the fact that this wiki is organized around the principle of mob rule, possibly created under the assumption that lefties always do the right thing. This is a flaw in the matrix: a minority will always persistently dissent. I see no important principle being violated in revoking the rights of a member who is inactive by necessity due to his intellectual incapacity to contribute. Usually village idiots wander off of their own volition.Ariel31459 (talk) 22:39, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Trollarama

nobs blocked

Making a formal note here that Bongolian issued a pre-emptive early block because nobs insisted to troll the coop (see above). Assuming everything goes the way it's currently looking (and I'd be frankly really fucking suprised at this point if it didn't) that block will be converted into a permanent block later today if we decide to end it as early as possible (and I would agree to doing that). Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 10:14, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

I am getting sad how constructive members of society are being thrown to jail. Makes you realise how much you unappreciated them. And also how humans are imperfect, damned for all eternity, and how we are all gonna fucking die one day and nothing you ever did even mattered to whatever ever came after. Fucking humans can’t fucking cooperate on a fucking project without being fucking uncooperative and then spend more time talking about how uncooperative we are than actually cooperating on the project they cooperated to cooperate on. — 𝗦𝗾𝗿𝘁-𝟭 ^{talk stalk} 12:04, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

I dunno if this is about nobs or not, but nobs hasn't ever been "constructive" to the efforts of this wiki. The most positive thing about his presence was that he was in his later years a self-contained troll who was kept because some regulars liked to needle him. There's a lot of mainspace editors I care about a lot more, but not even they are above the CS and what occured was a fairly clear rights abuse. Right now, we are rectifying their rights abuse through formal mob vote and we agreed to let them off with a slap on the wrist. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 13:03, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

oh you are right I didn’t mean “jail” I meant LANCB sorry about that. — 𝗦𝗾𝗿𝘁-𝟭 ^{talk stalk} 13:30, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, Paravant, FuzzyCatPotato, DG, AgingHippie, many others... CoryUsar (talk) 15:12, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

David still is around every once in a blue moon. FCP I've seen sometimes in off-wiki communities, mostly to do with WMF stuff. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 16:17, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

You should delete my mainspace contributions

Now that I am a disgraced and reviled user, you need no longer humor me by retaining my deranged drivel on this website. I now believe that just about everything I did here was a mistake. ^{— Unsigned, by: DuceMoosolini / talk / contribs}

@DuceMoosolini "a disgraced and reviled user" BULLSHIT. You are a valuable, long-term editor. I think I speak for all the other regulars here (not counting Hastur of course) when I say that we mostly trust your judgement (except for this one single occasion where you unilaterally promoted and banned someone in violation of site policy), so stop bloody saying that. I, along with most of the people on here, were/are greatly saddened to see you and LGM go. If you had scrolled down further, you'd've seen that I have retracted my suggestion to give you and KC anything more than a slap on the wrist, and fondly reminisced about how funny your joke-renames were and of all the articles you wrote. --Goatspeed. _{See what I'm up to}CircularRasoning^{Prototype lab} 02:29, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

It has been a week...

...and in nobody has cast a vote for three days(by my reckoning). Even before that only three votes were cast in the preceding two days. Compare that to the first two days the vote was open which saw eighteen votes cast, very high turnout for a penalty vote. What I am trying to say is that interest in this case has clearly fizzled out by now. Should we keep this open for another 7 days gathering dust? We have reached the minimum time limit for a penalty vote, and maybe we should stop there if barely anybody else will show up.-Flandres (talk) 03:12, 15 January 2021 (UTC)