RationalWiki:Chicken coop/Archive120

Oxyaena

Given the evolution of the thread at ATIM, I am opening a coop case against Oxyaena. A summary of what's been discussed so far would be that we're sick of her shit. We've given her many warnings and we've even removed her sysop rights and put her on probation. She does not appear to have improved. Various voices are calling for further disciplinary action. Please discuss-Hastur! (talk) 04:38, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

The original ATIM convo

Do we want this?-Hastur! (talk) 14:25, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Not really. Oxy goes out of her way to randomly insult me, I respond, flames ensure. So for now, any time she insults me without adding anything useful to the conversation (e.g., randomly calling be a "centrist, ableist, liberal, dunning kruger!!!") I'm just going to collapse her insult instead of responding. CoryUsar (talk) 14:32, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

That specific section died about 48 hours ago. Personally I would have liked it to end like that in GC of all folks telling people to calm the fuck down and both sides apologizing. Unfortunately it's now reignited couple of sections up from there. Oh well, another day, Oxy calls some folks shitheads, people take the bait and another flame war erupts. Yay. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 14:41, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Suggesting a two way interaction ban between Frank, Cory and Oxy. That is, Frank and Oxy don't talk vice versa and Oxy and Cory don't talk vice versa. These flame wars are getting tiring. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 14:49, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

I second Sirius. These flame wars have been making the Saloon Bar somewhat less enjoyable for me. It's supposed to be fun, not a circlejerk for people to bicker and argue about who's being rude to who... I'm sick and tired of the same old tired cliches on both sides being repeated endlessly to the persuasion of no one. --Goatspeed. _{How's my editing}CircularRasoning^{See what I'm planning} 22:33, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Sure. Also worth looking at the common denominator, too.-Hastur! (talk) 14:53, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

The community standards mean nothing if behavior like this is allowed to be tolerated. —cosmikdebris ^talk stalk 14:59, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Disputes are fine when they lead to learning, constructive criticism, and or at least a better understanding of an opposing position (so that one might be better able to argue against it). These disputes are none of those things. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 15:22, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm trying not to interact with Oxy. But I don't know why I would be banned from interacting with her. She slings obscenities and rants my way, and I respond in a far calmer manner. Our behavior isn't equivalent; it's not even comparable. IveBeenFrank (talk) 15:25, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm sick of the flamewars too, so as I said from now on every time she insults me I'm just collapsing the insult. I think that is sufficient. Is that sufficient enough for you guys?CoryUsar (talk) 15:29, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Both of you are at times as bad as she is. GC is right here. You two are pigeons playing chess against another pigeon. The discussions go nowhere, derail other conversations and just keep fucking happening. Frank, it's not an equivalency, in case you haven't noticed. If I were to make the behavior equivalent I would encourage an interaction ban between Frank and Cory as well, but that seems unneeded to me. The point for making it two way is purely to avoid one end of this stupidity from taunting or gloating over the other. Cory, the collapses don't work. The argument just continues inside of those collapses or spills into a new thread. Clearly neither end of this seems content to ignore an insult being slung their way so I'm suggesting that we as a mob should think about just telling you two to shut up from talking with Oxy and Oxy from talking with you two or face short term blocks from the site. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 15:39, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Earlier she insulted me in what was a clear trolling so I just collapsed the insult and did not otherwise respond. No flamewar ensued. I think that's an acceptable way to handle it; one of us insults the other, it just gets collapsed, no other response no flamewar. CoryUsar (talk) 16:02, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

I support the suggestion Sirius made. When we are reaching levels of stupidity like "Cory implies Oxy's significant other actually doesn't like them in a saloon bar thread," an interaction ban will benefit everybody involved.-Flandres (talk) 16:35, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

(EC times ??)And the main reason this discussion will go nowhere is that Cory and even moreso IveBeenFrank casually and politely suggest ideas that mean innocent people will die, and the bridge to far is always that Oxy doesn't want to be polite about that. So when you say "Just ignore each other" it definitely doesn't actually resolve the underlying problem. "Just ignore each other" really means "Let awful shit slide". Which you know what? You can do that. I can and did do that. But it hasn't make them any less awful people, who huff and gruff at the barest notion of a serious pushback to "just their opinions". It doesn't make the saloon bar a better place. At least not to me.

Taking a page from my own experience. It doesn't make me feel better about people who I saw as being awful inexecusable wastes for human beings who do rape apologia, and to just ignore them entirely. It builds and builds and I have to leave because I just don't want to see their fucking evil-ass usernames. Maybe everyone else really is happier, but it just made the wiki feel like a much much worse place to me. Saying "fuck you, you piece of human garbage" to people who think rape is okay under some circumstances was a fundamentally necessary level of human dignity to me. I resent them so much more for not being able to tell them the fuck off. And honestly I like the rest of you a lot less for covering for them. It becomes "The wiki that covers for rapists", even though that's not your intent. It's not a good society that lives like that.

I do understand that Oxy has an even shorter fuse than me. And that having a "good society" isn't the main purpose of a wiki. But I personally think you're all overstating how much being rude to another editor is a real problem to anyone, and understating how much being biting your tongue can be a real problem. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 16:36, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

At the risk of getting off topic, but @Ikanreed, which post of mine was it that was particularly egregious? If I am engaging in the equivalent of rape-apologetics, I feel like that's a separate issue I need to work on. CoryUsar (talk) 16:52, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Honestly, nothing in this thread, it was all IveBeenFrank being shitty in this thread. But you do do that from time to time. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 16:56, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Heh, if I recall correctly, my very first fight on this wiki was with you, regarding vaccines originating in China or something like that. Basically, I had said something about vaccines originating in China and that being ironic for all the pro-TCM folks that were also anti-vaxxers, you mistook it for me promoting TCM, we talked for a sec and I explained what I meant, and the fight was over. Or, how things are supposed to happen when there's a dispute. CoryUsar (talk) 17:29, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

This is ridiculous. Comparing me to a rapist is beyond insulting - it's just plain disgusting, and if this was a nationally-circulating publication, it may just qualify as libel. I never espoused anything so repugnant as advocating for rape. I merely believe that thievery, robbery, and looting are neither solutions nor things to be encouraged. To equate these positions to rape advocacy is beyond absurd, and sullies the reputation of this entire site. IveBeenFrank (talk) 17:50, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Before you do anything else, whether you are justifiable angry or not, it always helps to remain calm.

I think he's trying to say that a "kill the poor" type argument is, well, it is pretty bad when you think about it. Some people squat because of lifestyle or whatever, others are people abusing the system to live rent-free, but many are literally trying to avoid freezing to death and have to choose between squatting and freezing to death. Saying that all squatters should be thrown on the streets, including the last group, well, I can see where Ikan is coming from, whether or not it's a fairly mainstream view. CoryUsar (talk) 18:05, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘First, it's hard to stay calm when someone compares you to people who commit crimes that carry 20 year minimum-sentences.

Second, I never said that the poor should be killed, or that getting squatters out of their houses should naturally result in them living in the streets. That's why we have homeless shelters, hospices, and many other types of the much-needed services that governments, charities, and churches provide. I'm fully in favor of these services, and if people are still out on the street, then it's clear we need more of them (of course, getting these people into houses with paying jobs would be preferable, but sometimes that's just impossible). IveBeenFrank (talk) 18:14, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

I remained calm, and he was comparing me in the same manner. I think the very fact that we are having this discussion here should be a big red flag and/or wakeup call in itself. To both of us, and anyone else. CoryUsar (talk) 18:21, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Sigh. Oxy, please get a grip on your short fuse. It is a serious problem and I'm sure it negatively affects your life not just on internet forums. If you don't have access to or can afford therapy there are all sorts of very good resources online for learning breathing and relaxation exercises and you can always take a break from online discussion forums from time to time (which is a good idea for just about everybody). Cory and Frank, maybe you can keep the tinder at a lower level around Oxy's fuse? Interaction ban is not a bad idea? ShabiDOO 18:31, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

I'd rather not have an official, hard-coded ban on interaction or whatever. I can promise to try to do basically what I've been trying to do just before this all started on ATIM. Basically, if she interjects a discussion with an insult towards me (which let's be honest, if it was a BON or new user would've resulted in a 3.6 day ban), instead of responding, I (or the mob) just hide the insult in a collapse, and done. I do my best to avoid insulting in turn. I don't bother responding to the collapsed section. Like ikanreed said, simply allowing the insult to stay up is a problem as it's basically saying we have a little society where you can be insulted and it's considered acceptable, but the hiding is a bit of a way for us to say "it's an insult, stop that"). CoryUsar (talk) 19:07, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

I've warned Oxy recently (before this incident) to cease uncivil behavior. Warnings seem to have no effect on her. It is frustrating. Bongolian (talk) 19:27, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

It's been a problem for years now. I also don't think the discussion went well for CoryUser and IveBeenFrank either, but Oxy has a way worse problem with flaming users and escalating conflict. Could those two be possibly more considerate for the situation of squatters? Perhaps. But Oxy isn't making it easy at all. When someone's screaming at you for you apparently saying something wrong, there's no choice but to dig your heels in and stand by what you said. When someone is also saying something you find inconsiderate for your situation, it also helps to still be civil but assume they meant well and just say that their position isn't good. I've had Oxy scream at me in one Discord server, her pinging me to tell me I'm an ableist sack of shit. It's wearying. Eventually removed her, still tried to listen, but indicated how tired I am. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 19:34, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

So I went over some of the barchives and SB, at it seems I've done an OK-ish job of ignoring her.

You can see her insult me, often unproked, without me responding too much if at all

here "Problematic as in it is a label for the systematic prejudice society has towards the disabled? I agree, just look at our resident ableist shithead Cory here. — Oxyaena Harass 10:09, 4 December 2020 (UTC)"

here "That's pretty disrespectful of you, but not surprising, considering who you are. — Oxyaena Harass 16:17, 27 December 2020 (UTC)"

and here "Don't listen to this idiot. He's proven himself over and over again to have no fucking clue what the hell he's talking about. — Oxyaena Harass 23:25, 6 January 2021 (UTC)"

also here "Again, dipshit, I'm not a fucking Marxist. No one here is advocating for the USSR style of doing things. — Oxyaena Harass 23:24, 9 January 2021 (UTC)" (ok this one was already close to turning to a flamewar, but I had it with her at and all the insults at that point)

here "Cory has proven himself over and over not worth taking seriously on serious topics. Just FYI. — Oxyaena Harass 19:28, 12 January 2021 (UTC)"

and here "As if the left and right are equal. Fuck you, you centrist piece of shit. — Oxyaena Harass 18:07, 25 January 2021 (UTC)"

here "As usual Cory is wrong about all of this. — Oxyaena Harass 10:52, 26 January 2021 (UTC)"

In fairness, there's probably a couple cases where I insulted her back or first. CoryUsar (talk) 20:23, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Oxy's interminable incivility is particularly galling because Oxy voted in favor of the revised Community Standards in 2020 (RationalWiki talk:Community Standards/Archive21), which included encoding civility as a community standard. So, one may therefore conclude that either Oxy did not know what she was actually voting for, or that the rules 'apply to thee but not to me'. I would support some sort of disciplinary action against Oxy. Bongolian (talk) 20:35, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

@Bongolian Me too - fucking tired of Oxy. Oxy loses her shit -> starts a long section swearing at all those that disagree -> calls people ableists or what term de jour she is using at the time -> apologises -> *one month later -> pattern restarts. Oxy is a dick. Ace^{fuck the bozos} 20:58, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Those are clear Community Standards violations, yeah. As I said, it's been going on for years. Topic ban, I don't think will do much since her flaming isn't restricted to a few people, as again, it's been years and across at least two Discord servers (got removed at least twice ;75 definitely removed in RatChat for behavior we're seeing right now. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 21:16, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

I don't think I'd vote for banning her, so much as a good ol' dope-slap upside the head and the rest of us just shutting her down when she starts shit. Lord knows I could use a dope-slap every once in a while, we all could. If I do stupid shit, don't be afraid to slap me. Buuuuuuuttt... it would be friggen hilarious if we, what is effectively an Anarchist community that has almost no standards, kicked out the biggest Anarchist proponent here. You know, exactly what I kept telling her would happen IRL in an Anarchist society before giving up on her. CoryUsar (talk) 21:35, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

I felt like I've trouted her so many times on the other hand. It doesn't feel too great somztimes given her apparent dire irl state but it's still no excuse for her to lash at folk that at worst, just don't know better.

Oh and I dope slapped you a few days ago lol, if you didn't notice, since it's not a formal dope slap. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 21:38, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

It may be a mob, but it's hardly an anarchist community — I think most of us are not anarchists. Bongolian (talk) 21:43, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

(And I thought this collapsed thing was a casual and friendly conversation...) JJP...MASTER!_{[talk to] JJP... master?} 21:45, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

(It was casual to me. Takes a lot to actually piss me off; a prior job was to be sworn at nonstop for 8 hours, and I've learned how to deal with that. Nothing, and I mean nothing, will piss off someone more than you keeping calm no matter how much they try to get a rise out of you.) CoryUsar (talk) 21:56, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

@Bongolian Well, we aren't Anarchists, but we are organized as such. We have no real hierarchy here. We have Mods/Techs/etc, but they don't really have any authority beyond telling people to behave, are volunteers, are approved and replaced routinely by the mob, etc. We have no barrier to entry beyond "don't be a complete POS", except for user pages we don't really have any private property. This is what an Anarchist society would look like, kinda. CoryUsar (talk) 22:03, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Some of us r anarchists tho (like me), and I think that RW does definitely have a semi-anarchist ethos/organisation style. And that’s p cool imo, this place would suck Ass if it was more hierarchical 💞 ASELA^{និយាយ} 💞 22:12, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Only if Oxy disobeys the two-way interaction bans proposed, would I say that she should be permanently not welcome here. --Goatspeed. _{How's my editing}CircularRasoning^{See what I'm planning} 22:44, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

That's a bit much, any breach of any potential interaction ban should result in a short (say, 24 hours) block and increase gradually if the breaches persist.

But yes, I'd agree that Oxy's behaviour is pretty poor and the aggressive, lashing out needs to stop. --RWRW (talk) 23:00, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘As always, RWRW has a level head and comes up with the most reasonable solutions. I'd add that an immediate promotion should follow any breaches of the interaction ban. All of this has only gotten worse after Oxys probation ended in December. I'm getting a feeling that she's one of those people who can't behave themselves unless given strict limits of acceptable behavior. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 23:09, 28 January 2021 (UTC) ┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘

At the risk of being utterly childish with the "but she started it!" or "but she was worse!" defenses, as mentioned above, I've put up with quite a bit of needling from her, and think my plan of "collapse the insult, just ignore" is good enough. Will the two-way ban be applied just as harshly to me?

Is the proposed two-way ban indefinite or temporary?

Does the two-way ban also include mentioning the other person, and in what context?

What about topics, if we are both in the same discussion? Just ignore the other person's posts as best we can? CoryUsar (talk) 23:26, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Oxy just can't fucking control herself. This behaviour has been going for fucking years. When the fuck is she going to grow the fuck up? Ace^{fuck the bozos} 23:51, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

A 2-way interaction ban would make sense if it was just Oxy and 1 other person, but Oxy has recently been abusing to others. I know that @IveBeenFrank was a recipient of her abuse on January 20. These are the two instances that caused me to warn Oxy on two separate occasions to cut it out:[1][2] So, Oxy, isn't calling someone an 'idiot' being ableist? Bongolian (talk) 00:04, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

While it shouldn't be evidence to sanction, but to provide background, she pinged me and others in a Discord for me to hear abuses from her. Others probably know what I'm talking about too. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 00:47, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, you know what. Cory can be a condescending dick sometimes and IveBeenFrank can get overly defensive. But they aren't nearly as toxic and viciously hateful towards the community over all as Oxy gets. I still think they should try and avoid engaging her, as she clearly can't handle it and gets "triggered" to yet another vitriolic rant (and at least Cory must know this by now). However, being that they don't have the record of hatefulness that Oxy does, that any ruling here should demand that Oxy cease her incivility towards other editors and any such behavior will be punished with losing of the mop (and ninja maybe...it doesn't really relate to this, but has any non sysop ever been a ninja and if not should we set a precedent for her of all people?) followed by blocks of increasing length.

I don't think Corys proposal of just collapsing any and all abuse by Oxy would work though. It'd just be, if you allow me the metaphor, sweeping her toxicity under the rug. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 01:05, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I got the fuck off Discord because there's enough bullshit here to keep me occupied - I don't need the shit spilling over onto another platform too. Fuck. That. Noise. Ace^{fuck the bozos} 01:14, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Since I brought this up

To offer some background as to what we're dealing with, Oxyaena equates liberals (or her idea of liberals) to Nazis, saying that they're just as bad. I am inclined to say that she has the right to say this. RationalWiki was founded on free discourse, after all. However she ought to be aware that statements along these lines are going to spark a certain amount of vigorous debate. She doesn't seem to deal well with that, and discussions she's involved in (or jumps into) often degenerate into flame wars, creating an environment of hostility and making the wiki less pleasant for everybody. I think that the community formally rebuking her would help her learn a bit about how to talk to other people. I would suggest a short block, of 1 or 2 weeks. Stripping her of her user rights would be a good idea, while we're at it. It'll save us the trouble of removing autopatrolled/sysop from the random weirdos she gives them to. Moreover I don't think it's fair to give equivalent blame to CoryUsar and I'vebeenFrank. Oxyaena is at the root of far more conflicts than they are. Maybe they could do more to prevent these squabbles but by and large Oxyaena causes them-Hastur! (talk) 00:51, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Hey man, remember when it was my fault that there were squabbles with Oxy all the time? Perhaps it wasn't me that was the problem... Ace^{fuck the bozos} 01:15, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Maybe not, though I'm not sure your habit of egging her after the fact is necessarily helping the situation any. Just a thought my friend. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 01:21, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm not fucking egging her after the fact - I am fucking mod replying on the fucking mod page. Egging her would be directing comments to her talk-page or getting involved in a squabble in the Saloon bar. I'm supposed to comment here. Ace^{fuck the bozos} 01:26, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

...my friend...(Sorry I am attempting a period of sobriety and while the Valium helps my patience is wearing thin)... Ace^{Simple Maze} 01:37, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I think a block is too harsh (as others pointed out), unless she, Cory, or Frank violate the interaction ban. And as for the part about promoting her, that doesn't have to be mentioned since even a really short serious block would already entail a temporary sysrevoke by definition. (Also yes, her habit of handing out purely ideological demotions like candy to irrelevant anarkiddies who never seem to even edit except to advertise their favorite Breadtubers on the article we have on them is really annoying, but easily undoable given how rarely someone changes user rights. And if she demote-wars, I find it more effective to inconvenience Oxy by sysrevoking her brigade rather than Oxy herself, at least until they prove themselves trusworthy.)

Wait, what exactly are the conditions of this IBAN? JJP...MASTER!_{[talk to] JJP... master?} 02:07, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

We've been very patient with Oxyaena. We've given her many chances. Remember that we've already revoked her sysop rights and put her on probation. We've also given her a lot of warnings. A lot.-Hastur! (talk) 02:20, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

She went abusing block rights, to claiming to be "de-facto mod" to losing tech rights due to suspected abuse, had sysop-revoked, probation, topic bans and still this shit carries on. I expect another LANCB soon. Ace^{Simple Maze} 02:25, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

It carries on because this is a fundamental behavior problem. I think we've given her far too many chances at this point. I'd say she needs a looooong break off this wiki. Maybe several months. We'll see how things go. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 02:26, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I would not support a block longer than two weeks at this stage. AFAIK we have not resorted to blocks yet, starting with a months-long block would be egregious-Hastur! (talk) 02:30, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I don't think a short block suffices either. What's going on is a long-term problem with impulsivity. Perhaps we could test waters through mid-length block but I highly doubt they'll work and they don't last long enough for Oxy to get a break nor for people to get an idea of what Saloon Bar is without Oxy. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 02:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I propose a Pi-week block (though it would have to pass through a vote of course), though I am doubtful she will ever really change her conduct.-Flandres (talk) 02:41, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

No, Oxy is hooked on this angry-man syndrome. NO, I'm not misgendering - it's a figure of speech. Ace^{Simple Maze} 02:48, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Hey I don’t really have any “skin in the game” here, but as a trans, while I get that it’s not your intent and I appreciate your clarification, I still would ask that you please don’t use expressions that could b interpreted as misgendering. Idk, it just makes me uncomfortable to see even tho I know you don’t mean it “like that”, and I personally would probably be pretty hurt by that comment. Obvs I can’t speak for oxy and I want to be clear I’m not “having a go at you”. Just saying my thoughts and asking that you please reconsider such phrases. Hope ur doing well. 💞 ASELA^{និយាយ} 💞 05:03, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ How am I supposed to be civil when people keep making really shitty comments. Have y'all seen what Cory and co say and do, and their personal attacks towards me? I never go out of my way to insult someone's personal life, they do. They say really outrageous shit and y'all expect no one to call them out for it? I've actually been really tame. Cory's comments towards people afflicted with addictions were really tone deaf and insensitive at best for one. — Oxyaena ^Harass 09:06, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I tend to avoid debates with you, Oxy, because you have a habit of wrapping your "arguments" in "fucking privilege" "fuck both sides" "center fascist" "fuck you centrist piece of shit" "rich oppression" "all capitalism rent seeking" poppycock. This is not arguing, this is poisoning the well and argumentum ad hominem mixed with unhelpful, broad generalizations. The problem with your statement here is that, from my perspective, it's hard to find a comment that you don't think is "really shitty" and you don't pepper with insults. If you hate on everyone and everything, eventually you will find that you have no friends. So I leave you with a comment in your style: fuck you, you fucking radical anarchist fucking fascist fucking piece of fucking shit! PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 15:15, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Cool. — Oxyaena ^Harass 15:19, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

To be fair, we did already talk a lot about Oxy's attacks but this is also true that some people use her condition to attack her, and right here, PanGalacticGargleBlaster is using her rhetoric as a getback (don't do this, we're told to not do this irl either; it's not mature at all, it's vindicatice). I've already told off CoryUser for a disparaging personal "lady wants free stuff to not work for" comment, but got no more of a response and that wasn't brought up, probably overlooked. I haven't thoroughly looked in discussions to find personal attacks but I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't the first time. The use of "triggered" in yellow text and disruptive bold and all-caps earlier, that's not cool at all. That's belittling a very serious condition some people here have (including LeftyGreenMario), and it's something I expected much better from @CircularReasoning, a moderator. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 20:14, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

@LeftyGreenMario With all due respects, that's all you took away from my comment? Am I really that insensitive? As I stated in my response below to a similar reaction in one of the "Goat" sections, I meant no offense to you or to anyone else whose triggeredness is actually warranted, I was just venting at Oxy's short fuse and vaguely-insulting misuse of the word "ableist", which as someone who is neuroatypical doesn't sit well with me. Sorry if I came off that way. I could collapse that comment if you like so it's less disruptive. --Goatspeed. _{How's my editing}CircularRasoning^{See what I'm planning} 20:25, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm not 100% understanding it but that's the first thing I see since it's all bold. As for the rest of the comment, I don't have much confidence to conclude anything but I'm not sure if you really should be calling people "anarkiddies" and insinuating bad faith, that they're just here to promote YouTubers they like. I think anarchism is leftist theory worth exploring (this wiki for instance doesn't like much structure and hierarchy in community governance), though I don't agree with it wholly. But thank you for your response and understanding. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 20:51, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Ban Oxy and be done with this drama

First of all, I'm going to apologize to Oxy in advance for hurting her feelings (and brace for the upcoming rant from her). Unfortunately, this isn't the first time Oxy has created HCM by acting inflammatory towards other users. She has undoubtedly run good contributors away. She was previously stripped of all user rights short of basic editing because of her disruptive behavior. I'm sure she means well, however, Oxy has been being disruptive for quite some time now, she has had numerous sanctions and slaps on the hand, and it seems like every other HCM involves her in some way. We finally got rid of Rob and his dramatic bullshit, now I propose we ban Oxy for one year to get rid of her dramatic bullshit. If she creates any socks, that ban will be extended to indef. Also, I propose this thread be moved to the coop. 71.208.x.x (talk) 02:55, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

who are you?-Hastur! (talk) 02:56, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

A lurker who got sick of the Captcha thing. 71.208.x.x (talk) 02:58, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Somebody just wants to let you know you did something silly.

I... don't think this needed to go to the Coop just yet. Or at all. CoryUsar (talk) 03:31, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Hmm... I dunno, looks like a really long block at the minimum doesn't seem too controversial anymore at this point... --Goatspeed. _{How's my editing}CircularRasoning^{See what I'm planning} 03:44, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I would support a coop case. I think this discussion has moved past warnings and mediation-Hastur! (talk) 04:34, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Done.--Hastur! (talk) 04:40, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Hastur, I'm surprised here...I thought you were the great defender of disruptive users. ShabiDOO 09:22, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I am curious to hear your reasoning as to why you think I defended Maratrean or RobS but not Oxyaena. Do you believe that I am transphobic? Or a cryptofascist?-Hastur! (talk) 15:37, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

You seem to defend bigots, raging ass holes and highly disruptive users but have it in for someone who says "fuck you" sometimes. I think all three should be dealt with but it does astonish me that you have such a high tolerance for bigotry and rampaging dicks but draw the limit at the occasional (and I agree still inappropriate) "fuck you". It's interesting really. But no...I doubt you are a bigot yourself nor trans-phobic. Are you? ShabiDOO 15:57, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Blocking her seems excessive to me. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 09:09, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Wait, which one am I? Bigot, raging asshole, or highly disruptive? CoryUsar (talk) 16:00, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

None, I'm fairly sure that comment was aimed at Hastur. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 16:01, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ I was talking to Hastur and I was referring to Rob and Raven (not you). I don't think you Cory nor Frank are problem users (though honestly goading Oxy probably could have been easily avoided. ShabiDOO 17:05, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I do not defend bigots. I defend people who are unfairly attacked. The criticism Oxyaena has received is quite fair. On top of that, I am being quite lenient with her. I voted against a long ban, and I am making the generous suggestion that she try to learn from her mistakes and improve as a person, rather than get rid of her altogether. I have said and done plenty of silly things in my youth, and I believe that with time Oxyaena can mature-Hastur! (talk) 18:50, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

So Raven was just "unfairly attacked" right? — Oxyaena ^Harass 19:28, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Wow Hastur. Your generous leniency is truly magnanimous. ShabiDOO 19:49, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

And Continued Here

She and I don't get along. Obviously. So, up above in the Moderator thingy, I can show you where, unprovoked in the past few days, she has gone out of her way to needle me in what seems to be an attempt at creating a flamewar. Or just being a dick or something. I've mostly behaved and ignored most, bit my tongue, etc, but I shouldn't have to put up with this shit and then be told I'm at fault for responding. In fairness, I probably responded to some and insulted her too, but hey, that's what we are doing here. Personally, I don't think I'd support a perma-ban just yet. What I would like is for all of us to come together and give her the proverbial slap upside the head whenever she insults someone out of the blue, starts on some weird rant, shrieks about "Dunning-Kruger Liberal Ableists!!!", or otherwise misbehaves. Let her know that starting problems is Not Ok.CoryUsar (talk) 04:50, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

So you should just be allowed to continue with your ableist rhetoric? — Oxyaena ^Harass 09:08, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Cory participates in a flamewar and then promotes sanctions against the person he flames with. LMAO. ShabiDOO 09:18, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, this is definitely Fair and Balanced™. — Oxyaena ^Harass 09:47, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Alright, let's vote: Block/ban for Oxyaena

All sanctions are comulative. Pi days plus pi months equals pi days PLUS pi months etc.

π hours

This vote has been closed. Please do not add, remove or change votes. The result of this vote was: 4-4 (50% yes). Fails, blocks require a supermajority. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 13:42, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Yea ShabiDOO 15:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Sure, why not. CoryUsar (talk) 15:54, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Oxy could use a break from things. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 16:25, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Performative punishments are sometimes appropriate. SolPyre (talk) 22:07, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Nay Too short to be meaningful. --Goatspeed. How's my editingCircularRasoningSee what I'm planning 18:02, 29 January 2021 (UTC) nay Neiltyson1fan (talk) 19:10, 31 January 2021 (UTC) Too short to matter. Bongolian (talk) 19:16, 31 January 2021 (UTC) Meaningless when she's had retirements longer than this. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 05:59, 1 February 2021 (UTC) Goat I am likely to support this. It's irrelevant that the other two users were goading Oxy (which they were and there should be an interaction ban and sanctions if they violate it), Oxy it still spewing out a copious quantity of incivility and insults. I'll probably vote pi hours this time and pi days next time and pi months the following time (and unfortunately I predict there will be next times). ShabiDOO 11:35, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Read what AMG wrote below. — Oxyaena Harass 19:43, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

π days

This vote has been closed. Please do not add, remove or change votes. The result of this vote was: 4-3 (57% yes). Fails, blocks require a supermajority. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 13:42, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Yea ShabiDOO 15:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Oxy could use a break from things. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 21:11, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Combined with the interaction ban and escalating mod blocks for further transgressions, this might be enough for past ones. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 05:59, 1 February 2021 (UTC) IveBeenFrank (talk) 12:31, 1 February 2021 (UTC) Nay Still too short. --Goatspeed. How's my editingCircularRasoningSee what I'm planning 18:02, 29 January 2021 (UTC) nay Neiltyson1fan (talk) 19:10, 31 January 2021 (UTC) Bongolian (talk) 19:16, 31 January 2021 (UTC) Goat Barring a close call or new evidence, I hereby recuse myself from voting. I don't believe anything else should be voted for than an interaction ban. That said I will follow the will of the mob. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 08:52, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Why am I the only one being sanctioned? — Oxyaena Harass 09:20, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Which user should be sanctioned then?Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 10:06, 29 January 2021 (UTC) All of the participants, otherwise this becomes yet another Oxy-bashing circle jerk. — Oxyaena Harass 10:41, 29 January 2021 (UTC) The-Sqrt and BoN then? Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 10:42, 29 January 2021 (UTC) @AceMcWicked @CircularReasoning How do you think that made me feel? Y'all are just as guilty of this shit as I am. I didn't even do anything to provoke y'all at the time. Yet the constant passive-aggressive insults and slights I get thrown my way don't count for shit, but when I react to them I somehow become the bully? — Oxyaena Harass 10:43, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Oxy you may have done nothing to provoke it, but instead of doing something constructive like starting a forum on how ableist language is used or discussed this with a moderator, you went straight to a long tantrum of insults to which, I believe, the community has absolutely had enough. Your defense of "they goaded me" I think has been well used up. I don't think people here any longer have patience for it. You have to control your short fuse and incivility (regardless of users goading you...which I admit they do). ShabiDOO 11:38, 29 January 2021 (UTC) I try to distance myself as much as I can from social interaction on this site and holy fuck how is this site so riddled with incomprehensible drama. — 𝗦𝗾𝗿𝘁-𝟭 talk stalk 16:43, 2 February 2021 (UTC) I abstain from this section, 3 days might be considered a performative punishment or it might not be. SolPyre (talk) 22:14, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Ineligible

π weeks

This vote has been closed. Please do not add, remove or change votes. The result of this vote was: 16-5 (76% yes). Passes. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 13:42, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Yea Nutty Roux (talk) 13:44, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Sorry Oxy but you get right on my nerves! Scream!! (talk) 14:22, 29 January 2021 (UTC) What Scream said. Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 14:25, 29 January 2021 (UTC) -Hastur! (talk) 15:23, 29 January 2021 (UTC) In case the longer blocks don't pass (which they probably won't unless by some miracle Twodots unlurks, 71.x becomes eligible, and all the other anti-Oxy editors come out of the woodwork and don't decline to vote)... not the best, but would still give us a chance to bask in the Oxylessness for some time --Goatspeed. How's my editingCircularRasoningSee what I'm planning 18:02, 29 January 2021 (UTC) At the minimum, some measure of punitive action must be taken. For the record, I do this not out of malice, but out of a desire to improve both the site and Oxy herself. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 18:23, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Bongolian (talk) 18:58, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Noted. CoryUsar (talk) 19:05, 29 January 2021 (UTC) I don't have faith she'll improve in the long term but she can and needs a break from here. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 19:32, 29 January 2021 (UTC) IveBeenFrank (talk) 19:11, 31 January 2021 (UTC) Ace doth agree. AceSimple Maze 22:10, 31 January 2021 (UTC) Worth a shot.-Flandres (talk) 22:29, 31 January 2021 (UTC) —cosmikdebris talk stalk 01:52, 1 February 2021 (UTC) Few weeks off site might be good for her. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 05:59, 1 February 2021 (UTC) Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 12:22, 1 February 2021 (UTC) mind if I pipe in? — 𝗦𝗾𝗿𝘁-𝟭 talk stalk 16:35, 2 February 2021 (UTC) Nay Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 16:25, 29 January 2021 (UTC) 💞 ASELAនិយាយ 💞 16:55, 29 January 2021 (UTC) — Oxyaena Harass 19:37, 29 January 2021 (UTC) - SolPyre (talk) 22:17, 29 January 2021 (UTC) nay Neiltyson1fan (talk) 19:10, 31 January 2021 (UTC) Goat Barring a close call or new evidence, I hereby recuse myself from voting. I don't believe anything else should be voted for than an interaction ban. That said I will follow the will of the mob. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 08:52, 29 January 2021 (UTC) WHy am I the only one being sanctioned? — Oxyaena Harass 09:20, 29 January 2021 (UTC) For the record Oxy, it seems that the interaction ban that also prevents your arch-nemeses from talking to or specifically mentioning you is gonna pass. Dunno what you're on about. All three of you need to stop blaming only the other side, and acknowledge that y'all yourselves are also guilty of at least some of the same failings. --Goatspeed. How's my editingCircularRasoningSee what I'm planning 17:24, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Ineligible

|}

π months

This vote has been closed. Please do not add, remove or change votes. The result of this vote was: 10-9 (52% yes). Fails, blocks require a supermajority. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 13:42, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Yea Nutty Roux (talk) 13:44, 29 January 2021 (UTC) --Goatspeed. How's my editingCircularRasoningSee what I'm planning 18:02, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Has enough clout, I think this is really the length we should go, but don't think others agree. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 19:33, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 22:04, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Sievert 81 (talk) 00:17, 30 January 2021 (UTC) Bob"Life is short and (insert adjective)" 12:23, 1 February 2021 (UTC) — 𝗦𝗾𝗿𝘁-𝟭 talk stalk 04:32, 3 February 2021 (UTC) If we ain't gonna permaan her then this. Scream!! (talk) 13:05, 3 February 2021 (UTC) I'm sick of this shit, she's the reason I'm not around much these days. Avida Dollarsher again 18:03, 5 February 2021 (UTC) Funny, and I've been nothing but civil to you. — Oxyaena Harass 20:09, 5 February 2021 (UTC) Me thinks you complain too much about other peoples votes though. Don't make me change mine. You're at the very edge of my good faith right now. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 20:42, 5 February 2021 (UTC) Oxyaena, it's hardly civil to be telling people that they're as bad as fascists. That will always be taken poorly.-Hastur! (talk) 21:04, 5 February 2021 (UTC) Where did I call Avida in particular a "fascist" or something akin to that effect? People are not defined by the labels they wear. — Oxyaena Harass 10:40, 6 February 2021 (UTC) The bare-ass minimum required for any vague hope of a teachable moment. Helena Bonham Carter (talk) 00:07, 6 February 2021 (UTC) Are you kidding me? You haven't been here for months and this is when you show up?! Unbelievable. — Oxyaena Harass 10:35, 6 February 2021 (UTC) Nay ShabiDOO 15:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 16:25, 29 January 2021 (UTC) 💞 ASELAនិយាយ 💞 16:54, 29 January 2021 (UTC) — Oxyaena Harass 19:37, 29 January 2021 (UTC) - SolPyre (talk) 22:19, 29 January 2021 (UTC) nay Neiltyson1fan (talk) 19:10, 31 January 2021 (UTC) Too long for now. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 05:59, 1 February 2021 (UTC) Just to spite the old guard, hmhmhmhmhm...-Flandres (talk) 23:24, 3 February 2021 (UTC) I said I wasn't going to vote and I'll probably going to regret this latter, but I'll be the casting vote here. GeeJayK (talk) 18:22, 5 February 2021 (UTC) If I said this is a bad idea why am I voting? GeeJayK (talk) 00:35, 6 February 2021 (UTC) nope AMassiveGay (talk) 19:35, 5 February 2021 (UTC) Goat Barring a close call or new evidence, I hereby recuse myself from voting. I don't believe anything else should be voted for than an interaction ban. That said I will follow the will of the mob. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 08:52, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Why am I the only one being sanctioned? — Unsigned, by: Oxyaena / talk / contribs Ineligible

1 year

This vote has been closed. Please do not add, remove or change votes. The result of this vote was: 2-10 (16% yes). Fails, block votes require a supermajority. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 13:42, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Yea Nutty Roux (talk) 13:43, 29 January 2021 (UTC) --Goatspeed. How's my editingCircularRasoningSee what I'm planning 18:02, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Nay -Hastur! (talk) 15:24, 29 January 2021 (UTC) ShabiDOO 15:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Too long, only if she gets banned for a few months first and then returns to the same problems. CoryUsar (talk) 15:42, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 16:25, 29 January 2021 (UTC) 💞 ASELAនិយាយ 💞 16:53, 29 January 2021 (UTC) I stand opposed to this option at this time. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 18:30, 29 January 2021 (UTC) — Oxyaena Harass 19:38, 29 January 2021 (UTC) - Not the right move. SolPyre (talk) 22:21, 29 January 2021 (UTC) nay Neiltyson1fan (talk) 19:10, 31 January 2021 (UTC) Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 05:59, 1 February 2021 (UTC) Goat Inelligible Pi months isn’t enough, but permaban may be a bit extreme. 71.208.x.x (talk) 12:34, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Permaban

This vote has been closed. Please do not add, remove or change votes. The result of this vote was: 3-16 (15% yes). Fails, blocks require a supermajority

Yea Nutty Roux (talk) 13:43, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Funny how you only reappear during my coup. — Oxyaena Harass 15:08, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Nutty reappeared during Nobs' coop too. And LT's. Not sure about Raven. Voting to ban people seems to be what he mostly does here these days. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 15:15, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Nutty is not laughing with the site, he is laughing at the site. 71.208.x.x (talk) 16:53, 29 January 2021 (UTC) @71.208.x.x I think she's female... Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 07:11, 5 February 2021 (UTC) Nutty? What on earth makes you think that? Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 09:00, 5 February 2021 (UTC) For the repeated 'LANCEBing. Sorry Oxy but you get right on my nerves! Scream!! (talk) 14:50, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Are you directly harmed by me putting the retired template on my page? — Unsigned, by: Oxyaena / talk / contribs Never met a sever I didn't like. --CoyoteSans (talk) 07:25, 1 February 2021 (UTC) #If we banned nobs for creaming himself imagining insurrection while having the audacity to lecture us about "patriotism", then we can ban Oxy for repeating the same acerbic hellfire-preaching of her untouchable narratives and then refusing to back them up and instead becoming hostile when challenged. --Goatspeed. How's my editingCircularRasoningSee what I'm planning 18:02, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Except as AMG pointed out below that's literally not what happened at all. — Oxyaena Harass 18:38, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Nay As I've stated previously, I'm very much against perma-bans. Just give her some form of stern warning, and done. CoryUsar (talk) 14:27, 29 January 2021 (UTC) -Hastur! (talk) 15:25, 29 January 2021 (UTC) ShabiDOO 15:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 16:25, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Seems like a bit of an overkill for a permaban--WMS (talk) 16:46, 29 January 2021 (UTC) 💞 ASELAនិយាយ 💞 16:52, 29 January 2021 (UTC) I stand opposed to this option at this time. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 18:30, 29 January 2021 (UTC) — Oxyaena Harass 19:38, 29 January 2021 (UTC) No. Just needs a break. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 21:47, 29 January 2021 (UTC) - SolPyre (talk) 22:23, 29 January 2021 (UTC) A little birdy told y'all this was gonna happen. Judge Dredd (talk) 15:31, 31 January 2021 (UTC) nay Neiltyson1fan (talk) 19:10, 31 January 2021 (UTC) —cosmikdebris talk stalk 01:52, 1 February 2021 (UTC) Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 05:59, 1 February 2021 (UTC) Y'know what I love? Democracy. TheFonz (talk) 16:33, 2 February 2021 (UTC) I've changed my mind. --Goatspeed. How's my editingCircularRasoningSee what I'm planning 19:45, 4 February 2021 (UTC) Goat Barring a close call or new evidence, I hereby recuse myself from voting. I don't believe anything else should be voted for than an interaction ban. That said I will follow the will of the mob. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 08:52, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Why am I the only one being sanctioned? — Oxyaena Harass 09:20, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Which user should be sanctioned then? Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 09:56, 29 January 2021 (UTC) why are there votes on various block lengths now, when most of the offending outbursts from oxy could have been dealt with with by short blocks of a few hours or a day at most, or that vandal break thingy - time outs for incivility essentially? its what should be done going forward, an certainly should have been the action taken way before a coop case where blocks of up to a year and a permaban are on the cards. oxys outbursts is usually generic invective that doesnt need a response more than a short block for oxy to cool her boots. and getting called a fucking centrist or the like doesnt require a response where oxys own troubles in real life are blamed on her own moral failings, and her own proposed solutions for societal ills would not help her personally due to an assertion of her perceived personal failings. provoked or not, responses to oxys outburst have been at times incredibly nasty and personal. incivility is more than just some swears. draconian punishment for oxy at this time after so much inaction allowed this all to drag on so long in the manner it has would be unjust. oxy doesnt help herself at all by her inability to bite her tongue, but going back to those halcyon day with GR needling her constantly with others piling on, and just bringing up her in discussions with nothing to do with her as an example of some negative behaviour or actions on the wiki, it must seem at times people wont let past misdeeds already dealt with go, just waiting for her to make a mistake, over react, or something to pounce upon as proof of her being beyond redemption. is there not some sort of mediation option? where relevant parties can have a chat on talk page some place and address behaviours, comments made, reactions and the like, recognise whats not helpful, why it isnt, why somethings unacceptable, recognise where ones own actions were not helpful or could have been done differently. clear the air basically. you dont all have to be best pals but you dont need to jump down each others throats. AMassiveGay (talk) 18:23, 29 January 2021 (UTC) @CoryUsar @CircularReasoning @Hastur @Bongolian @LeftyGreenMario @KnightCommander read this. — Oxyaena Harass 18:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC) I'm not part of those debates. I've seen personal attacks on her living conditions which I reiterate are not cool (CoryUsar "From the lady who wants us all to rearrange the entire system so she gets free shit but doesn't have to work for it." is particularly nasty even if there's no swear words or direct flaming involved, it's a strike downward). (Add: in this coop, IveBeenFrank incorrectly summarizing causes of homelessness as "a cocktail of drug addiction, inability to find and hold stable jobs, and poor life skills, coping mechanisms, and social relationships" which is not true and propagates existing false harmful attitudes to homeless people, given the cause of homelesssness is mostly out of poor circumstances; cost of living is too high, wages are not adequate, healthcare is too expensive, and getting a job is really difficult when everyone else is looking!) Right in this coop, I already see an "ironic" use of "trigger" by CircularReasoning, which only reminds me of how CircularReasoning never had to deal with actual triggers (unlike me) and reminds me that most people won't and reminds me I (and Oxy and others) will. I won't be surprised that Oxy has those, given abusive conditions she has to deal with, making that usage even in poorer taste. I guess for her, the only response to some nasty attacks is to scream into a void and vent anger and frustration piled up from irl difficulties. I still don't think that's going to solve the problem. Some of these exchanges, however, happen relatively fast. By the time you come back from, say, cooking a meal, paragraphs of content appear and you don't know where to begin. All you see is disruption from a person who's been disruptive to you too. I guess that's why there should be a mod team to help maximize the amount of eyes on discussion but more often than not, this discussion already blows up within an hour of doing something else. Nevertheless, I don't think RationalWiki is helping her emotionally and I'm really afraid she just can't get off it. I'm not coming with a long term block because again, she's not like Rob, who's rancid and she's not like GR who just riles up people and manipulates others, but I'm still am doubtful too that hours or days block will help her cool off. I still think she needs some break from the wiki project in general. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 19:58, 29 January 2021 (UTC) @LeftyGreenMario For the record LGM, while yes, the insensitive comments on the financial situation which had led to Oxy's radicalization in the first place can fuck right off, my intent was to vent at how too often Oxy gets triggered by things that aren't really problems, to the point that she and her buddy Catgrrl have essentially now made "ableism" a meaningless term on this wiki. (I say this as a neuroatypical who finds their overuse of the term insulting to victims of legitimate ableism.) --Goatspeed. How's my editingCircularRasoningSee what I'm planning 20:08, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Thanks LGM for saying something that I couldn't put into words. I agree that the comment about Oxy wanting things for free and to not have to work really disturbed me when I read it. There have been many other vile comments towards Oxy (which were totally unprovoked). I wish mods would step in and say something (even if they cannot sanction someone over it). I agree that Oxy should take a break from this site and should also put extensive effort into learning how to deal with other people's gross insensitivity. Having said that doing nothing about her incivility isn't an option either. ShabiDOO 20:30, 29 January 2021 (UTC) (Edit conflict) I understand your frustration @CircularReasoning but I first need to advise you to refrain from using "triggered" as a substitute for someone who is highly upset, visibly angry. A trigger is not that, though being triggered can manifest in extreme distress that looks like anger. I can't vouch for Oxy but it wouldn't be surprising if she has her own set of triggers and bouts of extreme anxiety from traumatic experiences. It's not good to use that word especially dealing with Oxy, as tempting as it is to tell her off for extreme anger. I do think she's too quick to label others as ableist but I see a communication problem here. She doesn't think you're really understanding her dire situation and mental health problems, which I do see. That being said, she did call me an ableist one time. I did one time insinuate something about ADHD iirc but it wasn't attacking it and was an attempt at a self-deprecating joke on ADHD since I have it and know it too well but she seemed to have been okay with it after I explained. I'm not sure she had that in mind when calling me ableist but either way, she's not really using the term properly and you're right, this can weaken the power of the word when it's used to ad hominem people for their comebacks. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 20:38, 29 January 2021 (UTC) @LeftyGreenMario Fair enough. --Goatspeed. How's my editingCircularRasoningSee what I'm planning 20:42, 29 January 2021 (UTC) (Edit conflict) Shabidoo: I'm not a mod, but even if I were mod, by the time I'm active, the conflict has escalated and you have two choices, sit down with a coffee, read a lot, miss out on previous conflicts perhaps, or be overwhelmed. I still vouch for active moderators because the less active moderators, the more of a mountain you have to climb. And to be fair, I try to be as nice and sympathetic to Oxy as I can, and try to be thoughtful, but again, she has attacked me before. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 20:46, 29 January 2021 (UTC) And for that I apologize. It was unbecoming of me. I shouldn't have done it. I've made a lot of mistakes I'm not proud of, and I'm sorry for each and every one of them. — Oxyaena Harass 21:09, 29 January 2021 (UTC) All right. That's really nice to know. Take care. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 21:20, 29 January 2021 (UTC) I'm sorry if this sounds mean, but why does Oxy's personal life matter if she is misbehaving, and how do we even know she's not making it all up for sympathy? If a school teacher cussed out students like Oxy cusses out other editors, would their personal life matter in the situation? No, the teacher would get fired, and rightfully so. 71.208.x.x (talk) 22:57, 29 January 2021 (UTC) It's not meant to be an excuse for the behavior but to provide a background for why she might be acting a certain way. If someone has anxiety problems and such, it'll probably be expressed that way. It's a way to help evaluate a behavior but also be considerate and more thoughtful of criticisms. I reiterate, people shouldn't let their problems be an excuse for them to act verbally nasty and hurt others, but it's also on you how you respond to these people. In the end, I feel approaching her that way not only helps you better write a response, but also doesn't invite you to get angry and anxious back. Her attacks are personal and inciting, but knowing her background makes it feel less personally inflicted? I feel the same would happen for a problematic teacher that turned out alcoholic, a victim of abuse, struggling with poverty, etc. Still would get fired, but the committee doing this isn't telling the teacher to go fuck themselves. And I think the idea about making things up to garner sympathy is a bit of a tricky line. You don't have evidence otherwise except for maybe prior behavior of manipulation, which I don't think Oxy does. But what about me? How do you know I'm not making my story about triggers up? I suppose I have little reason to lie to people about things, but does Oxy have a reason to lie to people about this? --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 00:16, 30 January 2021 (UTC) Ineligible

Interaction block

This vote has been closed. Please do not add, remove or change votes. The result of this vote was: 12-6. Passes. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 13:42, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

My proposal is simple: An indefinite interaction block. General outlines are similar as to WP:IBAN except for the "Thanks" extension since we don't have it. For violations, any sysop who will not be sanctioned (so not Cory/Frank/Oxy) in this is allowed to issue a 3 day block with rights removal, under the condition that a comment is left on the talkpage of the offending user linking to the diff at the least. If a user commits 3 violations in total (3 strikes) drag them back to the coop, this time for longer sanctions. Affected interactions are between Oxy and Cory, and Oxy and Frank. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 09:31, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Yay I proposed it, I vote for it. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 09:31, 29 January 2021 (UTC) I'm throwing my lot in here. This seems the most fair. — Oxyaena Harass 09:41, 29 January 2021 (UTC) totally. Wisest thing we could do. ShabiDOO 15:59, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Let’s give it a try. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 16:26, 29 January 2021 (UTC) I think it's worth a go. Spud (talk) 16:37, 29 January 2021 (UTC) 💞 ASELAនិយាយ 💞 16:55, 29 January 2021 (UTC) In case the complete blocks above fail --Goatspeed. How's my editingCircularRasoningSee what I'm planning 18:11, 29 January 2021 (UTC) --RWRW (talk) 21:23, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Preventative justice, of a sort. What are the damages? --> People got angry at each other and the discourse of the community got dragged down. What is the solution? --> Restrict those people's ability to make each other angry. What if people keep making each other angry despite the restrictions? --> Punitive measures to incentivize compliance. SolPyre (talk) 22:45, 29 January 2021 (UTC) I would actually object to putting Frank in this...but I will take what I can get.-Flandres (talk) 00:19, 30 January 2021 (UTC) agree Neiltyson1fan (talk) 19:13, 31 January 2021 (UTC) Oxy has been more uncivil than the Cory and IBF, but it'd be wrong to punish her for further incivility if they could continue being more passive aggressively dickish to her. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 06:02, 1 February 2021 (UTC) Read what LGM, Sirius, and AMG all wrote about this. — Oxyaena Harass 10:43, 6 February 2021 (UTC) Nay Like I suggested back in ATIM, I'll just collapse Oxy's insults, and done. Let's try that and see how that works first. CoryUsar (talk) 15:15, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 15:24, 29 January 2021 (UTC) unenforceable. Scream!! (talk) 16:15, 29 January 2021 (UTC) What Hastur said in the Goat section. IveBeenFrank (talk) 18:50, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Bongolian (talk) 18:55, 29 January 2021 (UTC) —cosmikdebris talk stalk 01:53, 1 February 2021 (UTC) Goat Would this include a ban for mentioning the other parties included in the interaction ban to third parties? Because telling some new editor in some conversation that Cory is a centrist shitstain whose opinions have no value and IveBeenFrank is a liberal asshole or something seems to be Oxys forte. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 10:01, 29 January 2021 (UTC) "make reference to or comment on each other anywhere on Wikipedia, directly or indirectly;" Swap out WP for RationalWiki. (Or in other words, yes). Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 10:02, 29 January 2021 (UTC) (EC)Never mind, that seems to be included in the WP:IBAN Sirius linked to. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 10:03, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Anyway, I'm still on my self imposed voting ban until next Monday. I'll support this after that, though it's not in my opinion enough considering Oxys vitriol towards other editors and the Wiki in general as well. A message involving a short block needs to be sent. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 10:09, 29 January 2021 (UTC) I didn't even do anything worthy of being cooped, and Cory and Frank still say some fucked up shit. — Oxyaena Harass 10:40, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Quoting from the top of coop: “”This page can be used for reporting cases of administrative abuse (abuse of sysop or moderator abilities such as blocking, page deletion, or user rights management), general abuse (such as trolling, wandalism, and personal attacks), and conflicts which cannot be solved through normal talk page discussion (such as long-standing edit wars or article content disputes). Your general behavior towards great many editors here (not just Cory and Frank) has fallen easily on the "General abuse (personal attacks)" bit of it. That combined with your generally aggressive and vitriolic attitude towards the Wiki in general and moderates and centrists specifically makes me believe that something beyond interaction ban is needed here. I think I'm willing to go with just π days block for now to send a message. But with escalating blocks should such behavior continue after the block expires. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 11:53, 29 January 2021 (UTC) For the last time, what did I say that was so awful? Throughout the page, people keep comparing what I said to what Oxy said. I never used foul language, personal attacks, or petty insults in response to her. I didn't goade her, I simply responded; she escalated all on her own. And as for the content of my posts, I said the following:stealing is wrong, homelessness is a problem, social and housing programs that tame or solve the root cause of homelessness are the problem, and areas with drug gangs and addicts are generally unsafe. I find nothing offensive or "problematic" there. IveBeenFrank (talk) 12:01, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Why are those that solve the root cause of homelessness the problem? — Oxyaena Harass 13:44, 29 January 2021 (UTC) I take it you're referring to squatters. They aren't solving the root cause of homelessness, they're just continuing the problem. IveBeenFrank (talk) 13:59, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Citation needed. What do you think is the root cause of homelessness? Is direct action bad? Tell that to MLK. The entirety of the Civil Rights Movement was direct action. — Oxyaena Harass 15:12, 29 January 2021 (UTC) First, I shouldn't have to explain that squatting doesn't end homelessness (hint hint: squatters will eventually be thrown out). Second, the root cause of homelessness is a cocktail of drug addiction, inability to find and hold stable jobs, and poor life skills, coping mechanisms, and social relationships. Finally, what a non-sequitur! I didn't mention direct action in any part of my posts in this thread. But you know what, I'll take it anyway. You want to talk about King? Well, here's the thing: not only did he organize and plan every single rally or protest he participated in (where they were going to go, what they were going to do), but pushed hard for every member of his protest to be nonviolent, even when under attack. You can't compare that with antifa "self-defense" squads. IveBeenFrank (talk) 15:24, 29 January 2021 (UTC) MLK ended up becoming in favor of radical action later on in his life, and how much do you know about antifa? Also, I need a citation for that overgeneralization of homelessness. You ignore the socioeconomic factors that play into homelessness in the first place. Why is that? — Oxyaena Harass 16:16, 29 January 2021 (UTC) I'm not interested in continuing this side-argument. But I'd like to understand why you think my actions are equivalent to yours. IveBeenFrank (talk) 19:02, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Also, what part of "inability to find and hold stable jobs" do you not understand? Many socioeconomic factors play into this; I just combined them all into a single phrase to avoid listing them all. IveBeenFrank (talk) 21:27, 29 January 2021 (UTC) I thought you said you weren't "interested in continuing this side conversation." — Oxyaena Harass 10:29, 6 February 2021 (UTC) ┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ What can I say? The amount of times I've seen the excuses included in my post to justify my interaction ban makes me annoyed, especially when they're paper-thin. IveBeenFrank (talk) 10:57, 6 February 2021 (UTC) Why are the proposed Cory/Oxy and Frank/Oxy bans being voted together? Separate them plxors. CoryUsar (talk) 14:33, 29 January 2021 (UTC) I find it somewhat ironic that a recent article created was on the "Overton Window", given that this flame war started due to certain users reacting in a disproportionate manner, to certain topics or terms....which seem to fit into the category of "being outside" the Overton window. In my opinion Rationalwiki, as an open society, shouldn't be held back by said "window"; only in the most egregious of circumstances do we feel fit to censor or prohibit certain people, from voicing their opinions. A point in case is Frank's opinions, he should be allowed to debate them without the threat of slander, and I think he has presented his statements in a manner more conducive to the standards of this wiki i.e. without resorting to tirades of abusive language. —Leucippus 14:45, 29 January 2021 (UTC) @CorruptUser Practicality. If it's only one, it doesn't solve anything. This interaction ban is only effective if both are applied, otherwise you may as well not apply it at all. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 14:57, 29 January 2021 (UTC) You mean the article I created? Also, question on IBAN. Is it simple majority or 2/3 vote? Also also, is this a perma-IBAN? I hate to have some situation where, 2 years later we forget all this and then OOPS someone interacts with another. CoryUsar (talk) 15:44, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Simple majority. It's an indefinite IBAN with future appeal options available. Basically in practice what this does is if any of you starts shit, we can easily take it out at the root without a complete coop case and just a short time in coooldown, with the option for escalation if nobody backs off after that. After 2 years or so, in the event you all can interact normally again without shit-smearing, I'd not be in doubt that it would be liftable. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 15:54, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Hopefully last question. Does the IBAN still happen if there's a length block too? CoryUsar (talk) 16:10, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Barring an infinite block (in which case it would go into effect out of practicalty), yes. The IBAN vote is seperate from the "should we ban oxy" vote. If the IBAN vote passes, it passes. If it fails, it fails. The block vote is separate from that. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 16:52, 29 January 2021 (UTC) This is an Oxyaena problem, not a CoryUsar and IBF problem-Hastur! (talk) 18:42, 29 January 2021 (UTC) About that.... — Oxyaena Harass 19:41, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Oxy might start shit, but IBF and Cory are not blameless for constantly escalating the discussions into personal attacks and derailment. I'd prefer those three to not interact at all with each other anymore. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 22:57, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Ineligible Not enough. 71.208.x.x (talk) 12:38, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Give mods rights to block Oxy

(This is in addition to any other penalty voted for). Mods may block Oxy and temporarily remove her rights during the block after a series of insults and/or incivility (not for example a single "fuck you"). First block is 12 hours and doubles after each successive block.

This vote has been closed. Please do not add, remove or change votes. The result of this vote was: 10-3. Passes. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 13:42, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Yea ShabiDOO 20:25, 29 January 2021 (UTC) sure CoryUsar (talk) 20:42, 29 January 2021 (UTC) In principle, mods already have this right (to block people for disruptive behavior), but I think there is usually reluctance by mods to block sysops without general community awareness first. Bongolian (talk) 21:05, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Doubling is harsh, but drunk-tank blocks are a good idea. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 21:16, 29 January 2021 (UTC) --RWRW (talk) 21:28, 29 January 2021 (UTC) This ought to help-Hastur! (talk) 21:38, 29 January 2021 (UTC) --Goatspeed. How's my editingCircularRasoningSee what I'm planning 00:08, 30 January 2021 (UTC) I'll go along with this. Spud (talk) 04:15, 31 January 2021 (UTC) Sounds good. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 06:03, 1 February 2021 (UTC) Fucking A. Oxy just starts shit everywhere all the time. Immediate censure. And I love the "people just hate me" excuse. Maybe there's a fucking reason for that, jack-ass. AceSimple Maze 00:16, 4 February 2021 (UTC) You're not helping. — Oxyaena Harass 10:48, 4 February 2021 (UTC) Nay There are people here who hate me a lot. As Sirius said, is it really prudent to let this last indefinitely? Some of those people who hate me may want to run for election in the following mod vote, and who's to say they'd treat me fairly? — Oxyaena Harass 16:24, 2 February 2021 (UTC) There's going to be bunch of other mods to provide oversight. I'm considering running next November...yes it's 9 fucking months from now...and despite our differences I wouldn't look kindly to unjustified blocks of you. In the meantime, I'm pretty sure you can trust at least Bongolian, RWRW, Sirius and Spud to be fair towards you. That's a majority of the current mods. Besides, abusing the blocking privilege would be grounds for cooping the mod in question anyway. That said, if you act decently towards your fellow editors for long enough time, that would probably be a reason enough to revoke this ruling through ATIM. Just don't try and have a vote on it every goddamn month like you did last summer when you tried to get your mop restored. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 17:01, 2 February 2021 (UTC) I actually was an alternate Mod a while back, and Bongolian keeps nomming me to be a Mod (maybe he thinks I'll act as a spoiler and split the votes for his rivals? You'll go far in Politics, Bongo!). I'm thinking of running next year as well, so that would be... interesting. I think the IBAN would still apply, though in a "As Common Sense Dictates" sort of way. Basically, no interaction in non-Mod affairs, let the other Mods handle the issues with the other person if possible. If not, because the others are offline, ignore anything that isn't something along the lines of blanking all the pages or committing massive abuse of other users, and any such thing would risk punishment from the other Mods if they don't almost entirely agree it was necessary. CorUsar (chat) 17:28, 2 February 2021 (UTC) I imagine Oxy that this will last as long as your lashing out at and insulting users lasts. If people are goading or provoking you, bring it up with a mod or call them out on it. If you go some months without your short fuse taking off, then this will likely be reverted. You should use this break from the wiki as a chance to work on your reaction to provocative assholtry. If you have free time, then there isn't any reason why should should try relaxation exercises and other methods to control your reactions. You might also consider being careful which LGTBQ+ and trans forums you belong to, as most are constructive but a few are utterly overflowing with extremely short-fused reactionary insult-laden people who viciously respond to even light disagreement with death threats and aggressive "destroy" campaigns. These are likely not good people to be around and will likely not help with defusing things. You may also find forums to discuss political topics where disagreements are discussed civily. I would also highly recommend spending time developing a defense of your ideas, because if you cannot provide strong replies (with evidence, studies, examples) then people will obviously quickly become frustrated. Ask a friend who may have a JSTOR account if you can borrow their password and you can read academic material. Or you can join wikipedia's waitlist for a free account (if you agree to use it to also improve articles). You can also send me a personal email and we can chat whenever you like. ShabiDOO 17:50, 2 February 2021 (UTC) @CorruptUser FYI, I had nominated you simply because I thought you were a frequent and quality editor, and I wanted to make sure that there plenty of people to choose from for moderator. It wasn't a political motivation other than to make sure that bad actors (e.g., Nobs) did not become moderator by default. Bongolian (talk) 20:32, 2 February 2021 (UTC) Hopefully your opinion of my quality hasn't changed too much :P. Cordon (chat) 20:38, 2 February 2021 (UTC) No, for a multitude of reasons. For starters, this punishment fully puts the blame on Oxy, whereas frankly in this case the other parties (Frank moreso than Cory) carry blame for escalating to highly personal attacks on Oxy (proportionally different though, hence why I recused myself from the block vote on Oxy, I do believe she needs some time to cool). Furthermore, I expressed concerns in my essay on alternate punishments that I am not a fan of this punishment in general because it survives past mod elections, which would run the risk of some of the other parties that Oxy is regularly at odds with (remember that while Cory and Frank are the ones who evoked the leadup to the current dogfighting argument, those two aren't the only sysops she's at odds with) becoming mod. In the current mod team this is not of a concern to me; Ace may be a bit of a dick sometimes, even to Oxy but he generally won't do this kinda stuff and the rest to my understanding are neutral enough parties in this all for me to not be concerned about them. This may however not hold true for other people who want to run as a moderator. Our current definition of this punishment is also extremely vague. It says that a mere "fuck you" is not enough to permit free mod blocks, but it says that "a series of insults and incivility" is. The terms of this punishment are so unclear to me that unless Oxy goes on a literal Ken-style tirade about how we are a bunch of loser fat atheist liberals (which she's not really done before), any block on this matter could be contested. Furthermore it doesn't seem to actually fix or do much about the actual issue which is the constant escalations between these folks. Like, keep in mind that the usual pattern is: Someone says something about a subject Oxy cares about / Oxy makes a comment to the extent of "you dont know what youre talking about" / Cory and Frank escalate the discussion / Oxy takes the bait / it gets to the point where it's everyone at the throats of everyone else and I'm not talking about that being written like vampire smut. Solely punishing Oxy with this seems inadequate to me. For this to make sense, we would have to extent this to Cory and Frank as well, because those two keep going after her personal life (Frank moreso than Cory). Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 20:24, 2 February 2021 (UTC) How did I go after her personal life? I believe it was Cory who accused her of harboring feelings for him. I can't think of a single comment that I directed to her personal life. IveBeenFrank (talk) 20:36, 2 February 2021 (UTC) Both of you have thrown insults at her ability to function in the real world and thrown shade at her supposed lack of social skills irl. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 21:54, 2 February 2021 (UTC) unclear, nay Neiltyson1fan (talk) 18:23, 5 February 2021 (UTC) Goat Fun fact: I read this as "give mod rights back to Oxy", so... JJP...MASTER![talk to] JJP... master? 20:54, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Oh good Goat, I'd sooner hire a fundamentalist to give my future kids private tutoring sessions --Goatspeed. How's my editingCircularRasoningSee what I'm planning 07:20, 30 January 2021 (UTC) I don't think successive blocks need to double, just apply discretion. Also, you don't need to remove her rights in the process, just do a block and indicate it's a mod block and hopefully Oxy doesn't try to unblock. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 21:54, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Bongolian has pointed out moderators already are presumed to have such authority to discipline any sysops who is intentionally disruptive. Though I cannot deny the necessity of such authority, I am tempted to vote against it as it is directed against Oxyaena alone. I do understand the trepidations of her critics. DocYankemPrevent Truth Decay!20:24, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Isn’t it too soon to actually start a vote?

Don’t we have to wait 24 hours? Or was that repealed? 71.208.x.x (talk) 12:49, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

We do indeed need to wait 24-48 hours. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 13:38, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I'll let the votes run for the extra time missed. That means the block votes cannot be closed until 16:00, 5 February 2021 (UTC) as opposed to 04:38, 5 February 2021 (UTC) (give or take a few minutes). Call it mod fiat, it's part of my duties as a mod to help bootstrap cases like this where the rules have been ran afoul of. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 13:46, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

It has been 24 hours since the original ATIM case was opened. --Goatspeed. _{How's my editing}CircularRasoning^{See what I'm planning} 19:59, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Why am I the only one being sanctioned?

There were two other participants in this grand charade. I haven't been treated very fairly either you know. — Oxyaena ^Harass 15:10, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Did I ever swear at you? Attack you personally? Insult your traits or your character? No, I said things that triggered you. And that makes me so obviously deserving of being cooped as well /s. IveBeenFrank (talk) 15:27, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict) If you would read the discussion, you would see that a number of editors see you as a repeated source of conflict, not just with CoryUsar and I'vebeenFrank-Hastur! (talk) 15:27, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

@IveBeenFrank As I went over with CircularReasoning, please do not use "triggered" again as a substitute for someone who is very upset, angry, anxious, etc. This especially true for someone like Oxyaena where she disclosed some of her life experiences and likely have trauma associated with them. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 21:04, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Put Oxyaena in sysoprevoke

I am proposing this in addition to a short block. She grants sysophood and autopatrolled too easily (often to troublesome editors) and arguably does not have the temperament we desire of a sysop-Hastur! (talk) 15:31, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

None of that is sanctioned against in the community standards. — Oxyaena ^Harass 16:22, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I still think this is unnecessary because a) if one of the blocks passes she'll already be temporarily sysrevoked for the duration of the sentence anyway, and b) her ideological demotions to her brigade is annoying, yes, but easily undoable. --Goatspeed. _{How's my editing}CircularRasoning^{See what I'm planning} 00:14, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Do you have any evidence for this "brigade" you keep talking about? — Oxyaena ^Harass 15:36, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Maybe because you are the common denominator in all this? Ace^{Simple Maze} 00:18, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

That doesn't count as "evidence." — Oxyaena ^Harass 10:28, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

This vote has been closed. Please do not add, remove or change votes. The result of this vote was: 7-13. Fails. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 13:42, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes -Hastur! (talk) 15:31, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Yup CoryUsar (talk) 15:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Ye Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 15:40, 29 January 2021 (UTC) IveBeenFrank (talk) 15:43, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Unfortunately. ShabiDOO 15:59, 29 January 2021 (UTC) and remove ninja (if she's still got it) Scream!! (talk) 16:14, 29 January 2021 (UTC) From my interaction with Oxy, I've got the impression that her main goal here on RW is to turn this place into a personal hugbox for moonbats. GeeJayK (talk) 16:16, 29 January 2021 (UTC) @Oxyaena Care to explain? I do have more than 75 edits (though not 75 edits on Main) and I've been here for more than 3 months. GeeJayK (talk) 16:26, 29 January 2021 (UTC) My mistake then. I thought you registered in January. — Oxyaena Harass 16:27, 29 January 2021 (UTC) You're forgiven. Don't worry, I won't vote for banning you though. It wouldn't be ethical to do this since you've just asked for my ban this week. GeeJayK (talk) 16:30, 29 January 2021 (UTC) I've been on here longer than most of the people interacting on this page. Throughout that time for a good portion of it anyways I've been harassed, ridiculed, mocked, gaslit, and had all sorts of abuses thrown my way. I think I've acted quite reasonably. I don't desysop people anymore, I don't block people for long periods of time anymore outside of vandals and joke blocks, I don't engage in edit wars anymore. Why the fuck do I deserve sysoprevoke and being permabanned? — Oxyaena Harass 18:42, 29 January 2021 (UTC) See, Oxy, that's part of the problem. One of my points was that I didn't need to use an IP to edit that article because my account was created in 2018. You didn't even read my defense. You didn't want me gone because you thought I was a troll (something that I believe, my edits on this wiki, some of them reverting people trolling you are enough to show that I'm not). You wanted me gone because I'm too much of a centrist scum for you. GeeJayK (talk) 02:03, 5 February 2021 (UTC) At this point it's hardly worth hashing over a 7-13 vote that shows no signs of budging. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 02:06, 5 February 2021 (UTC) You're right. Sorry for the rant, I just needed to say that and I don't think I'll have another opportunity. GeeJayK (talk) 02:09, 5 February 2021 (UTC) To be quite honest the only reason I had a bone to pick with you in the first place was because you were inserting obsolete nonsense into the MMT article, and most of your edits were suspiciously only revolving around that specific article, like the BoN troll just a few weeks prior. — Oxyaena Harass 10:27, 6 February 2021 (UTC) No Nothing here is a case of rights abuse. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 15:55, 29 January 2021 (UTC) What Sirius said. — Oxyaena Harass 16:13, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante ItalianoMake a Reservation 16:27, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Abuse of sysop tools has nothing to do with this. Spud (talk) 16:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC) --WMS (talk) 16:38, 29 January 2021 (UTC) you can still call folk a mother fucker without this. its a solely punitive measure neither corrective nor preventative of anythingAMassiveGay (talk) 16:39, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Though I'd argue that Oxys behavior has gotten worse every time she's been demoted. It's probably getting into her head or something #armchairpsychology Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 16:49, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Yes, it is punitive. Oxyaena has misbehaved and this will help to incentivize good behavior. She was arguably more civilized back when she was begging for her sysop rights back. Moreover, I would argue that it is in fact preventative and concerning user rights abuse. She regularly grants rights to people who should not have them, causing trouble on the wiki. This will save us the trouble of cleaning up after her.-Hastur! (talk) 18:39, 29 January 2021 (UTC) ℕoir LeSable (talk) 16:55, 29 January 2021 (UTC) Such a measure won't end the flame wars. ☭Comrade GC☭Ministry of Praise 18:20, 29 January 2021 (UTC) 💞 ASELAនិយាយ 💞 18:26, 29 January 2021 (UTC) This seems unrelated to the current issue. SolPyre (talk) 22:48, 29 January 2021 (UTC) nay Neiltyson1fan (talk) 19:12, 31 January 2021 (UTC) —cosmikdebris talk stalk 01:55, 1 February 2021 (UTC) Though the bad behavior has generally followed her receiving user rights, it doesn't involve abusing them. At the moment this would be just petty vengeful bullshit. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 06:04, 1 February 2021 (UTC) Thank you, Knight. To be fair, it was Hastur who proposed this measure in the first place. — Oxyaena Harass 11:13, 1 February 2021 (UTC) Goat Just want to point out that in the event that this somehow passes, she would in my eyes be able to get this overturned with ease. Nothing in the presented case has anything to do with rights abuse. Techpriest (I am Alpharius! / / / ) 16:54, 29 January 2021 (UTC) This vote is meaningless since even a medium/short-length serious block on a sysop would already imply a temporary sysrevoke by definition. --Goatspeed. How's my editingCircularRasoningSee what I'm planning 19:54, 29 January 2021 (UTC) But it would enable anyone to block her for an hour or two if she starts on a rant. CoryUsar (talk) 19:56, 29 January 2021 (UTC) This can also very easily be abused, as it was abused when I was previously sysoprevoked. cough Hastur cough. — Oxyaena Harass 21:18, 29 January 2021 (UTC) For context, I blocked Oxyaena for 5 minutes and she freaked out. 5 minutes. I shit you not-Hastur! (talk) 06:18, 30 January 2021 (UTC) For someone who seems to hate most of the people here, Oxy seems to be exceptionally dependent upon this site. That is partly why I think it would be good for everyone, especially Oxy, for Oxy to have a meaningful separation period of x weeks. It will give Oxy time to decide whether she really does like and appreciate the people here enough to stop the needless and frequent ad hominems. Bongolian (talk) 06:30, 30 January 2021 (UTC) I am glad this suggestion received an overwhelming no by now. When the poll was first started it had 7 yes' and 2 no's (The second of which was mine, but it was discounted for whatever reason). I do not understand those who voted yes either, what is the point of removing someone's rights when they have never abused them in the first place? MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 17:56, 2 February 2021 (UTC) Because your account is too new. User accounts must be at least 3 months old to vote. Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 12:20, 3 February 2021 (UTC) @MarioSuperstar77 Oxy has abused her rights (specifically tech rights) in the past. She also had a habit of giving extremely abusive custom block justifications. For these she lost her sysop and tech rights in the spring/summer 2020 and only got her sysop back in the late summer after improved behavior. That however is no reason to take her mop away this time. Even if she's been otherwise abusive, she hasn't abused the sysop privileges after getting them back. And as for Kevlarstars comment, that is indeed why your vote was removed. Your account needs to be at least 3 months old (or you need to have edited with another account that meets the age requirements) and you need at least 100 edits to vote here. Knight CommanderIn ServiceTo HerGoatness 12:52, 3 February 2021 (UTC) Ineligible MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 15:56, 29 January 2021 (UTC) As a non-eligible human, please do this. Edit: please don't. JJP...MASTER![talk to] JJP... master? 16:28, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Giving moderators the right to block Oxy when uncivil

As Amassivegay pointed out, probably the best way to deal with this is to simply give Oxy a short block when she is being uncivil. I think it would be better for there to be blocks doubling in length every time it happens (starting with say a 12 hour block the first time). By this I mean sustained insults or incivility (not a single "fuck you" which many of us have done once or twice). I think we should vote on giving the moderators the right to dole out quick blocks (doublilng in length each time Oxy does this) in cases of sustained abuse/insults. This will help avoid coop cases over a series of "fuck yous" or insults and help avoid flame wars. Is this something worth discussing and voting on? ShabiDOO 18:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I can live with this instead. Will the blocks be on the "honor system", where we just get blocked and promise not to unblock ourselves? CoryUsar (talk) 18:39, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Likely meaningless without removing her rights-Hastur! (talk) 18:40, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

With that said, I've long wished for a "super-block," a block function parallel to our existing block function that can only be issued, adjusted, and removed by moderators. No clue how hard this would be to implement-Hastur! (talk) 18:41, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Considering all the crap I've been forced to endure during my tenure on this wiki, I've been more than civil. I never speculate about others' personal lives and blame their own troubles on themselves. — Oxyaena ^Harass 18:45, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Oxy, a tirade of fuck you you fucking fucker...is not civil in any universe (even on rationalwiki). If people are being truly terrible talk to a mod or bring it to the coop. If you want to propose a policy change, start a forum on it. Stop with the bloody insults and litany of fuck-offs. They are NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVERcivil, regardless of the goading. In too many cases your incivility is not remotely proportional to what the goaders say to you. ShabiDOO 19:47, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Anybody else notice that Oxyaena is refusing to admit wrongdoing or offer any sort of contrition?-Hastur! (talk) 18:46, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

*cough* *cough* *cough*... JJP...MASTER!_{[talk to] JJP... master?} 18:50, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

You know, I've put up with her for a while, while she was still cluttering up the SB with random videos for Anarchist nonsense. I only gave up on her when she posted another of her gish gallop-like spam videos, I asked her to actually defend her position. Of course, I got accused of sealioning for refusing to take "I'm not answering that" for an answer. After that, I basically gave up on taking her seriously, and yes, I was a bit overly vicious in my responses to her. CoryUsar (talk) 18:57, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

You literally were sealioning. Other people took notice, including RipCityLib. — Oxyaena ^Harass 19:40, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Mods would remove Oxy's rights during the blocks. Any ideas how we word this proposal? ShabiDOO 19:46, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Something like: "If a Oxyaena is blocked by a mod due to uncivility, her sysop will be removed for the duration of said block. Once the block has expired, the sysop will be returned."

Basically how we deal with mops in case of coop sanctioned blocks and bans in general. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 20:08, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

First problem is having a mod actually catch a discussion before the conflict has simmered down. Was there ever a mod that stepped in and even said a word? Is there a good way to get moderator attention? In Discord, it's usually active enough and pings have audio notification. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 20:57, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

It'll have to simply be punitive in the hopes of getting Oxy to knock it off rather than being aimed at stopping a flame-war mid-flow. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 21:20, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I'm concerned that this power can and will be abused, as it was before when I was sysoprevoked. — Oxyaena ^Harass 21:21, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I think its pretty unlikely that a mod would abuse this. But it might be an idea for the blocking mod to put a notice on ATIM for other mods to review. --RWRW (talk) 21:33, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

I would approve of such a proposal, but only in addition to the current penalties being voted on. It looks like Oxyaena will be banned for a few weeks. That should give her time for self-reflection. Putting her on probation with the moderation team would be a good way to complement that-Hastur! (talk) 21:36, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

(ec) So basically what I've been saying to deal with police brutality; give the police piles of paperwork every time they pull a gun, so before they do so they have to say "wait, is there a way I can resolve this issue without 4 hours of paperwork?" Make the mods put the links and ATIM and whatnot, and it'll be "grooooan, do I really need to do anything?" CoryUsar (talk) 21:40, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

@CorruptUser You read my mind. Spud (talk) 03:02, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly agree that the free-reign mod thing should expire at the next election. As a mod, I think I somewhat trust myself with that power, but I do know of a few people who dislike Oxy even more than I do who might run, who are good faith but mistake-prone. --Goatspeed. _{How's my editing}CircularRasoning^{See what I'm planning} 19:58, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

As someone who voted in favour, I also agree with having the ‘power’ expire at the next election. For me its more a question of mandate though. I'm not too concerned with abuse - I don't think an elected mod would abuse this and if they did, it would be in full view of the rest of the mods and the community.--RWRW (talk) 20:53, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Since this is likely the last time I can say this...

...I feel like I should explain something.

I'm not upset I won't be able to talk about Oxy. It's probably for the best. But I feel like I should I explain just why Oxy annoys me.

I'm not an Anarchist, obviously, and don't like the system, but this isn't about Anarchism. I try to understand where people come from, and why they believe what they believe. Yes, that may surprise you, and for all my semi-toxic interactions, I think I've learned and become better for it. Sorry GC, I apologize again, I did step over the line with you, and was meaner to you than you deserved. I do hope things get better for you. With Oxy, for months I would just roll my eyes as she filled the Saloon Bar with obnoxious amounts of nonsense garbage videos and spam, and insulted anyone who didn't agree with her particular interpretation of a radical/fringe idea. At one point, I wanted to know more. Here is the relevant thread. I wanted to know exactly why she supported Anarcho-Communism. Why she was supporting a system that, as far as I'm aware, would be absolutely harmful to me, but would be harmful to her. Especially her. I asked her specifically, why she believed that somehow, AnCom would be result in life being better for her.

She refused to answer, and kept changing the subject. So I pressed back. And got insulted by others, and still no answer. It was at this point that I completely wrote off Oxy as being "worthy of taking seriously", and the toxicity began. So Oxy and I no longer able to yell at each other, that's for the best. No longer having constant insults slung my way out of the blue when I'm talking to someone else? That's great, and if it means I can't do the same back, no big deal.

I think this is for the best. In the future, I think what I need to take away from all of this is that if I see a line of conversations are toxic for everyone involved, just to not even engage in them. If I'm being randomly insulted out of the blue, to go straight to the mods instead of waiting until I get pissed off enough to respond in kind. Because we can't have a toxic community here at RW, and expect new members to join.CoryUsar (talk) 01:06, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

--Goatspeed. _{How's my editing}CircularRasoning^{See what I'm planning} 06:30, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

That's not the entire story, tho, is it Cory? As we can see in that thread you linked, even others recognized you were in fact sealioning. Asking pointless drivel irrelevant to the topics at hand. — Oxyaena ^Harass 11:10, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

I looked through that thread and the only other participant who thought he was "sealionning" was a BoN who everybody assumed was you. Not that it particularly matters. You and your ideals are not beyond scrutiny, not on this website. Don't get offended just because you can't defend your beliefs-Hastur! (talk) 14:29, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

I must be confusing two threads into one, and people here assume anyone who's further left than socdem is me. — Oxyaena ^Harass 15:30, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Honestly, Oxy, you didn't handle that linked interaction well. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 17:55, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

I really don't think you should accuse others of instilling bad faith, Oxy, don't accuse Cory of sealioning even if it's in your firmest convictions, because that'll make Cory defensive. --It's-a me, LeftyGreenMario! 22:32, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Cory also wasn’t being a sea lion. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 23:51, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Can you even sealion in the saloon bar? How are we defining sealionning here? Was CorruptUser really in bad faith questioning Oxyaena's beliefs? Would anybody be surprised if it turned out Oxyaena accused everybody who criticizes her ideology of being in bad faith? She just needs to accept that this is a public forum, and that just about everything she posts is subject to rebuttal-Hastur! (talk) 02:26, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

We banned UT over this, and Cory's questions were off-topic and of an inane nature. — Oxyaena ^Harass 10:33, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Closing the vote

It's been more than 48 hours since this coop was first started, and I think the conflict at hand has fizzled out. I for one would like to be done with it. I've accepted the results whatever they may be, or if nothing is done that is fine to. I just want to be done with this whole charade and move on with my life. Peace. — Oxyaena ^Harass 04:06, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

It hasn't been seven days though. If the conflict stays fizzled, I'll archive it and enact the penalties that pass then. --Goatspeed. _{How's my editing}CircularRasoning^{See what I'm planning} 06:32, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Per policy, the vote lasts 7 days at minimum, this time with a few extra hours because of early voting. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 08:43, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Ah, I forgot. — Oxyaena ^Harass 11:11, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

My opinion (if anyone actually gives a shit)

I was on a 3 year hiatus from RW until late 2018 (or 2019 - my mumble fuck alcohol soaked rag of a brain gets confused sometimes) when I noticed serious rights abuses from Oxy. Vandal binning users and blocking people with no edit history based purely on her "feelings" said user was either a sock or up to no good - all the while claiming to be some kind of "de facto Mod" (such a thing does not exist). I rejoined RW to specifically address these issues and was immediately pounced upon by Oxy who didn't let up for months while it was me who was called the instigator. Based on this experience I ran for Mod again (having been one of the original Loya Jirga members (pre-mod) and an elected mod 2 years afterwards, at which time I ran amok and quit the site until I noticed Oxy's behaviour some years later. I was elected mod and have been elected again this term. Oxy has a very clear pattern - gets really fucking abusive towards someone, LANCB several times, promises to change, makes up some personal drama, calms down - repeats. This has been going on for years. Oxy clearly has very little self-control, is extremely manipulative, somewhat unhinged, demands attention and shifts blame when challenged. Enough is enough. Oxy - either fuck off and change and the community - lay down some clear fucking guidelines on how to deal with this malformed and maladaptive personality. Ace^{Simple Maze} 00:35, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Your observations do not conflict with mine. Bongolian (talk) 00:49, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

I agree with Ace. Although I am probably not as familiar with the situation as Ace, I've been seeing Oxy causing trouble on this wiki since a couple of years ago, and they way she carries on I can't help but think to myself "this woman would not last two seconds at my job" (I work in customer service, not that it's anybody's business). I don't want to upset her, but I think she is a detriment to the wiki. 71.208.x.x (talk) 02:55, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Maybe she'd do OK as a waitress in Paris! Kauri0.o (talk) 03:00, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Your input is most appreciated! May I encourage you to vote in support of the aforementioned IBAN? That way we have a clear criteria which she can't violate and if she does, her abusive behavior is clear as day and we can take action accordingly. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 10:41, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

That's a very biased retelling of events, Ace. — Oxyaena ^Harass 10:46, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Oxy both you and Ace have an extremely exaggerated and extremely one sided view of your history on this site. Neither of you seem capable of seeing the truth which lies in between. ShabiDOO 11:27, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Fuck you Shabi. If you can’t see the problem on front of you then I have zero pitty for you. Oxy is the problem and always has been. You can’t see it? Speaks more about toy thAn her...Ace^{Simple Maze} 17:59, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Minimum time is over

What‘s next? Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 16:17, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Oxy get's π weeks block (and possibly another π days on top of that...CR's statement says the passing blocks are cumulative though that's a bit weird in my opinion). Mods are allowed to give her incrementally lengthening blocks until the conclusion of the next mod election, should she behave in seriously uncivil manner. Oxy is not to interact with or mention CorruptUser or IveBeenFrank in the foreseeable future and CorruptUser and IveBeenFrank won't interact with or mention her either. All other motions fail. I'll let some mod do the honors with the blocking and all. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 16:36, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

@CircularReasoning@Sirius As the guys who started the vote and provided the mod fiat for the delay, either of you willing to drop an axe for this? Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 18:03, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

A coop can last 7-14 days . So it‘s not necessary to end it now. Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 18:14, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

I was about to say the same thing, but got into an edit conflict and found KnightCommander had said most of what I was going to say. Technically you could drag it out for another week, but it seems to have reached a natural conclusion, everyone has voted and had their say. When a mod comes online, they should probably carry out the ban and put an end to this. Christopher (talk) 18:17, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

But the 3 months ban seems close. Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 18:20, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

3 months is close, and we just got another vote on it today. Might be fair to let it run a few more days to be sure. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 18:37, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

(EC!)

Bans need a 2/3 majority AFAIK, not 50%. Not even close.

So basically, Pi Weeks ban followed by IBAN between Me/IBF and Oxy. Neither of us can talk to or about each other with the exception of moderator talk pages, chicken coop, etc, and even then there's still some more limits than normal. All rules on this wiki are to be intepreted "as common sense dictates".

Examples not allowed;

User1- Wow, IBAN1, what's your obsession with cocoa puffs?

IBAN2- Don't listen to IBAN1, he's kooky for cocoa puffs!

or

User1- So what's your opinion of cocoa puffs?

IBAN1- Well, there's a certain user here you best not discuss cocoa puffs with...

Example allowed;

User1- IBAN1, what's the deal with IBAN2?

IBAN1- Sorry, IBAN2 and I are restricted from talking to/about each other

Example NOT allowed;

User1- IBAN1, what's the deal with IBAN2?

IBAN1- Sorry, IBAN2 wasn't kooky enough for cocoa puffs so we can't talk anymore CorruptUser 18:40, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Yeah, I've no problem with holding for another week to get closure on the π month thing. Oxy seems relatively mellow for now, so she's unlikely to cause too much problems in the meantime. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 19:00, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

I didn‘t mean permaban. I talked about the 3 month block, which only need a simple majority, unless the permaban. Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 19:02, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

That only needs a simple majority? That's... easy to abuse then. Just vote to ban for Pi centuries, doesn't need 2/3 votes! CorruptUser 19:06, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

These edit conflicts are getting fucked up but whatever. Anyway, maybe propose a change for maximum 1/2+1 block policy at Rationalwiki:Community Standards. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 19:13, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘(EC)@CorruptUser Yeah it's going to be tough to figure out. Seems to me that you should be able to engage in same conversations though, as long as you're not responding directly to Oxy or mentioning her in your response. It's a bitch, sorry. Not sure if this expires by the next mod elections too though. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 19:10, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Yeah Cory I know, it doesn't set a good precedent now that you brought it up... we've gotta change that rule to make it so blocks longer than a year require a 2/3rds majority... I'd say we give this a day or two more for closure on the too-close-to-call pi-month block. --Goatspeed. _{How's my editing}CircularRasoning^{See what I'm planning} 19:15, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Also engage in the same convos that one or the other starts. No one can "own" a topic or conversation. CorruptUser 19:21, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Sounds great and beautiful, and quite frankly the most beautiful I-BAN in the history of IBANS, maybe even ever, believe me. We look forward to MAKING THE SALOON BAR GREAT AGAIN. Both you and Oxy will have discussions so peaceful, you might even become tired of peaceful discussions! --Goatspeed. _{How's my editing}CircularRasoning^{See what I'm planning} 19:40, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Until new users start getting accused of being socks of the other person... CorruptUser 20:44, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Nattering aside, like I said, pi months is close and there's still action happening there. No close. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 21:07, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

It’s close to a simple majority, but like others have pointed out you’d need a 2/3 majority for it to pass. I don’t see any of the results changing from what they are now, but as you said there is still some activity so it’s not quite time to close. Christopher (talk) 21:16, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Since when did we need two thirds to block? I thought it was just to ban. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 00:19, 6 February 2021 (UTC

Nevermind I see it. It’s dumb but I see it. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 00:22, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

@DuceMoosolini Where? I also thought, that blocks only need a simple majority. Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 09:22, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘It’s a single, easily missed paragraph in the community standards. Should probably be mentioned somewhere on this page directly. Christopher (talk) 09:36, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

But doesn‘t mean User removal a permaban? A block means, that a user would return after 3 days/weeks/months. Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 09:56, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

It comes with the "(temporarily or permanently)" qualifier though. Temporary removal would be a block. I hadn't realized this either, but it seems that according to our CS any coop sanctioned block requires a 2/3 majority.

For the purposes of this coop, the π weeks block would still pass easily, but the π months would not. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 10:12, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

@Spud@RWRW@SiriusThen why we don‘t end it? I highly doubt, that something would change. Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 11:10, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

I think the mob has spoken. We can end this now. Spud (talk) 12:04, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I think this has gone on long enough. The interaction block and mod block proposals pass with a simple majority, the π weeks block for Oxy got something like 76% support so well over 2/3rds support. --RWRW (talk) 13:01, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Mods can enforce user interaction blocks by putting this code in user subpages

If they want. And adjust the second line of the javascript which defines users blocked.

• https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User:Neiltyson1fan/UserInteractionBlock.js
• https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User:Neiltyson1fan/common.js

for example copying that to -->

• https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User:IveBeenFrank/UserInteractionBlock.js
• https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/User:IveBeenFrank/common.js

If people want to just hide users instead of replacing them with cats, you can change usespic to false. Neiltyson1fan (talk) 23:38, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

The abuse filter has been discussed as another technical solution. Personally I don’t think one should be needed, if you can’t respect the ban by self-policing, that’s a sign you don’t respect the wishes of the community and are being intentionally disruptive. Technical enforcement would only encourage workarounds, which are always going to exist. Christopher (talk) 23:51, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Yea it's fine if they don't want to, was fun to make anyway Neiltyson1fan (talk) 00:05, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

You know, people conveniently forget that I was the one who promoted myself from tech in the first place as a sign of good faith. Obviously no one cares about that of course. I think I've proven pretty trustworthy, you have no reason to suspect I won't respect this ban. You're just being unfair otherwise. — Oxyaena ^Harass 10:25, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Closing time

Okay, time to close the vote and tally results.

Block votes (66% majority needed for yes):

• π hours - 4-4. Fails on a 50% for yes.
• π days - 4-3. Fails on a 57% for yes.
• π weeks - 16-5. Passes on a 76% for yes.
• π months - 10-9. Fails on a 52% for yes.
• 1 year - 2-10. Fails on a 16% for yes.
• Permanent block - 3-16. Fails on a 15% for yes.

Other sanctionary votes (simple majority needed).

• IBAN - 12-6. Passes.
• Free sanctions from mods to punish Oxy - 10-3. Passes.
• Sysoprevoke - 7-13. Fails.

In conclusion:

• Oxy will be blocked for π weeks by me, with sysop removed so she cannot unblock herself. Sysop will be granted back on block expiry.
• After this, Oxy is two-way Interaction banned from talking with User:CorruptUser and User:IveBeenFrank for an indefinite period of time. Enforcement can be done by any sysop.
• Moderators have free ability to block Oxy for incivility, starting with an upper limit of 12 hours and doubling each time it happens.

I will notify all parties as needed. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 13:02, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Wait a minute. I thought the interaction ban expired upon the next mod election? IveBeenFrank (talk) 13:07, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Just the proposal about mods having 'free reign' to block Oxy. Hopefully by the next election (c. November) this won't still be an issue anyway.--RWRW (talk) 13:12, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Not to my knowledge. All proposed sanctions are indefinite, although obviously appeal options exist. Anyway, I have sent out notices. I will archive this coop in 8 hours or so. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 13:14, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Seems like there’s some disagreement over whether the “give mods free reign” sanction is indefinite or lasts until the next mod election. Most people never explicitly stated a preference, but all those who did were in favour of it expiring. Christopher (talk) 13:17, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

True. In that case, since it wasn't directly specified, a subsequent vote would be needed to have it expire. Or it could just be left, whoever becomes a mod at the end of the year would know that their free reign to block Oxy would be based on a fairly thin mandate. --RWRW (talk) 13:29, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

I would not object to a second vote to determine if we should make the free reign sanction expire after mod elections. I personally obviously think this is a good idea, but I dislike this sanction in general for reasons I expressed in an essay. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 13:33, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Can we now archive this coop? Kevlarstar and his dog (Woof!) 13:41, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

I am giving it a few extra hours so that more parties can see this. Techpriest ^{(I am Alpharius! / / / )} 13:43, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Almost all of those who voted in favour of the "admins can block Oxy for insults" voted for it as it was (no time limit). A couple users added provisos but even if they withdrew their votes and voted against, there would be enough votes for it to easily pass as was. If you want to change the terms of that, you'll have to hold another vote to place a time limit on it (which I don't agree with). It can be challenged after the next mod election or in fact whenever anyone wants to challenge it but I think putting a time limit is extremely unwise if we want a lasting solution. ShabiDOO 14:56, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

I agree with Shabi. If Oxy manages to remain civil towards other users it's not an issue. If some mod with a personal grudge against her blocks her unfairly or spitefully, another mod can undo that and the mod who blocked her can be cooped. However, I don't think it's wise to give her essentially a permission to be uncivil to other users again. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 18:27, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, that stipulation should have been in the vote. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 19:35, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Oxy goes

Terrible human. Made up a suicide. Poisonous person. Horrible cunt. She/he/it has to go. Ace^{Simple Maze} 18:05, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

and you know know me. I advocate for no bans. But fucking her/him/cunt. Can fuck off. And now please. Ace^{Simple Maze}|