User talk:Carthage/Archive1

Welcome

What is going on? World Blogs Clogs Elections The Bar (talk) (talk) (talk) (talk) (hic) Welcome to RationalWiki, Carthage! Check out our guide for newcomers and our community standards! Tell us how you found RationalWiki here! If you are interested in contributing: Read what our articles are intended to be Check out the to-do list See our help page and Wikipedia's formatting cheatsheet If writing a new article, consider writing up a draft And most importantly: Pull up a goat and have some fun!

Because of your edits to and time on the wiki, Autopatrolled has been added to your user rights. This lets you bypass most of the abuse filters, bypass the CAPTCHA, and edit more frequently. If you have questions, bleat ask away.

We hope you enjoy your newfound POWER — and these external tools:

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• web.archive.org and archive.today, among other tools, can save permanent copies of webpages. Never lose a crank website or racist Tweet ever again!Bongolian (talk) 03:15, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Culinary expertise

Until the meat itself is so black that you can draw with it. Or for five minutes, your pick. Although... shouldn't you use a grill or pan for that? Air fryer after-taste is kinda weird.

This user is RWs self-appointed culinary expert

N A Z U N A -H I W A T A S H I-

Metallica - for whom the bell tolls

This user is RWs self-appointed culinary expert

TheAlePower (talk) 15:15, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ I don't eat mine rare. Don't wanna get salmonella or some shit. I usually fry it for 20 minutes or so. Carthage (talk) 15:18, 5 July 2023 (UTC) You could wet fry it. Do you happen to have a large ass pan? --

This user is RWs self-appointed culinary expert

N A Z U N A -H I W A T A S H I-

Metallica - for whom the bell tollsTheAlePower (talk) 15:20, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Nah. I'm broke. I got the air fryer as a gift from a friend. Carthage (talk) 15:22, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Image

Why not change the image for bullshit? Using actual feces is pretty disgusting. Rational Dude (talk) 22:15, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

It's fitting, and it's a coprolite. Ancient. It has scientific value. Carthage (talk) 22:18, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Well, can’t it be changed to something comedic and symbolic? Kinda like that image I used before. Rational Dude (talk) 22:20, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Coprolites contain no actual feces, just like fully-fossilized bones contain no actual bones. Bongolian (talk) 01:33, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

They’re fossilized versions of those materials. Still, I think the image I added was funnier. Rational Dude (talk) 08:42, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Obviously people differ. Why not take it to the talk page? Carthage (talk) 10:42, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

I will, I just thought I’d notify you first and ask. Rational Dude (talk) 14:55, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Sysop

Message from the RationalWiki Ministry of Demotion and Personal Impediment Dear Carthage/Archive1, We are gently informing you about how we have demoted you to the rank of sysop. You have received a mop and bucket to clean up messes here. No questions are allowed here. If you have any further inquiries, please refer to the enclosed pamphlet So you are now a sysop. At your leisure, please go to the dungeon Room 202 to see the reward mops and hammers you can work towards having! Sincerely,

Plutocow (talk) 17:56, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Carthage (talk) 18:01, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Ninja

You're now a RW:NINJA, meaning that you can turn yourself into a bot so that repetitive changes, like mass removing a deleted category, won't show up in recent changes. Plutocow (talk) 19:44, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello

Sorry if we got off on the wrong foot on the bullshit edit. It's nice to meet you. Rational Dude (talk) 15:18, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Who were you?

Remind me again, you're a returning user I think; who were you before you renamed? CorruptUser 00:17, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Maybe they're A Somebody, their editing and rhetorical style seems to match and are similar in some ways. Rational Dude (talk) 17:52, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

I literally still edit using this account and no, this person isn't me. A somebody. (talk) 17:55, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm real busy right now. If you have questions of a private matter I can email you, but I am, and I must stress this, busy with real world shit. Carthage (talk) 17:57, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

It's hard to tell, and how come you didn't vote against pottergarry? Rational Dude (talk) 18:29, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

I could vote in that? A somebody. (talk) 19:09, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

I did. It didn't count. I was the one who brought PG to ATIM in the first place, remember? And also, I must stress this for the third time apparently, I am busy. Carthage (talk) 18:32, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Not you, A Somebody. Rational Dude (talk) 19:02, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

A somebody wasn't here for the required three months to be able to cast a penalty vote. Plutocow (talk) 19:13, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

I see. I assume that's why Carthage's vote didn't count either. Rational Dude (talk) 22:52, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

For taking the bait and feeding a troll for hours

Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Somebody just wants to let you know you did something silly.

Didn't you realize he was laughing at you? And that both of youy were disrupting the Wiki? I swear you proved you're as dumb and insufferable as A Somebody. GeeJayK^{Where all evil dwells} _{Where every lie is true} 12:14, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

shrug I already said I wouldn't interact with them in the future. Also everyone has acted like a fool from time to time, I don't see how that affects my intelligence. Wisdom and intellect are two different things. Carthage (talk) 17:47, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Request

Can you please assist me with editing on the draft I made for Putinism? If you have any useful links you can add to the page, you’re more than welcome to join in editing the page. Rational Dude (talk) 21:32, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, sure. Not right now, though. Kinda busy. Carthage (talk) 21:46, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Of course, take your time. I just need help since I’ve been working on everything myself, and it’s not easy for me to find good links. Rational Dude (talk) 21:49, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

@Rational Dude This early opinion might be of interest to you: [1]. Mind the language barrier. Carthage (talk) 22:13, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Here's a video comparing Putinist and Soviet propaganda. Also mind the language barrier. Carthage (talk) 22:14, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

This video is about the Putinist social base. Carthage (talk) 22:15, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Here's a book on Russian fascism, here's a video about Ruscist and Putinist cooperation with foreign fascist elements. Mind the language barrier for both of these. Carthage (talk) 22:18, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Here's some material covering some of the economic aspects of both Yeltsinism and Putinism. Carthage (talk) 22:19, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

@Rational Dude Is that enough for you? Carthage (talk) 22:20, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

@Carthage Yes, thank you. But do you think you could add some of them in the draft for now? I’m editing several articles at the moment and it’s not easy to keep track of a single one. If you could help with this, it’d be greatly appreciated. Rational Dude (talk) 22:22, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

In a bit, maybe. Also, if you're editing multiple articles at the same time it might be better to just focus on one project sequentially. That's what I do. Notice how when I wrote the Jack Idema draft I took breaks in-between? That might help lessen the strain. Carthage (talk) 22:24, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I’ll try, but editing is what I do best here, so it won’t be easy. And I noticed your article, you did a pretty good job on it. Rational Dude (talk) 22:27, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. I added some of the historical context from the Alexander Tarasov essay. Carthage (talk) 22:35, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

You’re welcome, and thank you for helping with adding your edits. Rational Dude (talk) 22:37, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Um

I think you should prolly let me know before you edit an article since I’m also editing a lot. I noticed you got a bit upset because you seem to think I was trying to do an edit war, but I wasn’t. Sorry about the mess. But again, please let me know before you wanna join me in editing.

Also, can’t we put back “Iranian” in the page? I’m referring to both nationalities and ethnicities when I reference these groups. Rational Dude (talk) 01:24, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

"Iranian" is a fork for a reason. Although you can just put [[Iran]]ian if you must. Carthage (talk) 01:25, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. I was referring to the context in the article for Arabs. Rational Dude (talk) 01:29, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Check the talk-page for the fork. Carthage (talk) 01:30, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

I know, I did. Thanks for hearing me out. Rational Dude (talk) 01:35, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Stop wikicopping

Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Somebody just wants to let you know you did something silly.

Please stop going after people for supposedly not following procedures, when it's clear you don't understand them in the first place. First you incorrectly called out someone for editing an archive (when it wasn't an archive) and now your callout of Luigifan is incorrect, <ref group=note is a perfectly valid way of making notes and {{efn}} is mostly used because it's convenient, not because the other way is incorrect. Please don't make these judgements on topics you don't understand. Plutocow (talk) 18:35, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, she’s done the same with me, and it’s getting kinda annoying. I’m not trying to sound rude or intimidating, but she usually acts kind of upset over nothing instead of letting others know her intention prior. But she has improved in some regards at least. Rational Dude (talk) 18:36, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Editing the article "bullshit" to remove an image already agreed upon to stay and removing images without explaining why and objecting to these changes is not wikicopping. As for Plutocow's objection. Ok. Carthage (talk) 18:44, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

I’m not talking about that, I mean with the images for Nick Fuentes and Sneako. Also an agreement might not be official unless there’s an atim. Rational Dude (talk) 18:53, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

No? Consensus for individual articles are found on their talk pages, and I'm referring to the Nick Fuentes change. Carthage (talk) 18:54, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Well, you might need more people to decide. And you weren’t talking about Nick Fuentes, you were talking about the article for bullshit. You literally said that above. Rational Dude (talk) 18:56, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

I referred to bullshit and "removing images without explaining why and objecting to these changes". The Nick Fuentes bit is kind of implicit there. Also, how many people is needed for a consensus to form? I don't see a codification that we need a specific number anywhere. Just more. Carthage (talk) 18:58, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

No, you said removing images without explaining why seems to imply you removing the images I add and changing them. You should’ve been more specific. Rational Dude (talk) 19:01, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Ambiguous syntax is ambiguous, I suppose. Carthage (talk) 19:02, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Well, next time don’t be ambiguous. It might make a mess. Rational Dude (talk) 19:09, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

New draft

I made a draft for Prigozhin. If you can, expand it: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Draft:Yevgeny_Prigozhin Rational Dude (talk) 19:08, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I fucked up

Sorry about the shitty snark that I put in the clogosphere. I thought it was funny at first, but I realized that it was a tasteless joke. MayGodSaveUsAll (talk) 07:42, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. Also "Musk's shithole" is snarky enough as it is. Carthage (talk) 07:53, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Are you a Socialist?

I respect your beliefs but are you a Socialist? Because you seem like one ←§ Edward the eight (talk) 12:17, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Yeah. I thought that was clear through my editing history. Carthage (talk) 12:20, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for you help. I know we’ve had our differences, but I have nothing against you. It’s just kind of stressful here sometimes. I think you’re a good editor, and I want to get along with you as a fellow leftist. Rational Dude (talk) 15:38, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

For constantly posting links that you don't read

Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Somebody just wants to let you know you did something silly.

Seriously, stop.[2] This is not the first, not the second, not the third or the fourth time, and I'm not even including your edits with your older account, that you post a study that says pretty much the contrary of what you were arguing. This sort of thing just suggest that you are here be a POV warrior, and one of the worst kind. GeeJayK^{Where all evil dwells} _{Where every lie is true} 18:25, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

I actually posted a Brussel Times article, not the IMF study itself. I would assume Brussel Times is generally reliable. If it's not then feel free to correct the edit, but I did read the source itself. Carthage (talk) 18:35, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

wut?

It's UShit histrionics and mucks up an otherwise perfectly good line. Le législateur (talk) 21:18, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

OK? I reverted my reversion (infinite recursion), but I don't see how it messes up the line. I don't care enough about CP anyway, so I'm not gonna contest anything. Carthage (talk) 21:20, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Ta. Given you don't care, I'll spare you the lesson on writing funny stuff. Le législateur (talk) 21:42, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Carthage (talk) 21:51, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

We cool?

I'm a little sorry for responding as sarcastically as I did. About as 'little' as you are 'not very' upset. I know you're working hard and I respect you. I'm not blown away that the site is still on mission because it is people like you that were always gonna keep it that way. I also bet it looks like me, an old friend of the site, is just back to do whatever I want with no responsibility.

Well, I always kinda did that. It was never meant to harm. I really appreciate and am impressed by what you do. I hope we're cool. 2600:8804:500:FE90:3DC2:772:4928:9B5E (talk) 06:33, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. We're cool, don't worry. Carthage (talk) 06:36, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

just a curious aside, is English your first language?2600:8804:500:FE90:3DC2:772:4928:9B5E (talk) 07:13, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes, it is. But for the sake of the conversation, let's pretend it's not. What made you think that ASL was my first language? Carthage (talk) 04:39, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

I'll be honest with you. It looks like you have this problem consistently. You can read words but you're running into trouble reading voice. That's when I pulled my ASL hypothesis. 2600:8804:500:FE90:8854:F145:B500:5DA (talk)

You're quite observant. Carthage (talk) 02:56, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. I've met a lot of people and have tried at least to take them all very seriously. I'm very good at shrugging off and spinning criticism for it. You don't have anything to prove to me, I try to stay in the spaces I understand best. Communication, language, and the written word as it relates to the spoken word and art and meaning, i'm used to. and even there I am not an authority. I am navigating some of these really difficult thoughts that I see from other people posting, not to reach a destination. Socratic in a sense, but Man, truth is such an absurd concept anymore. I just want honesty. 2600:8804:500:FE90:B967:A3FD:CEC4:75F9 (talk) 07:05, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Who are you again?

Last time you were asked about who you were in your previous account you didn't answer because you were too busy. So what was your previous account name --Reichtangle (talk) 10:41, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

I had an account name that started with a letter in the last 8 letters of the English alphabet, and I wrote an article focusing on a logical fallacy. Carthage (talk) 10:47, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Seeking advice

I begin by expressing my thanks for your recognition of my work here. However, after only about six weeks, I have already had extreme encounters with other editors that I have no context to understand, and wonder if you could provide some. On the talk page for Nudity today, I have basically been accused of being a perv for pursuing the topic, but expressed as my pushing a point of view not supported by evidence. I am essentially the author of the Wikipedia article on Nudity, which has just become a Good Article. The citations have been copied, but the text here is new. I had assumed that fixing the article here, given its state on Sept. 1st, would be nothing but welcome.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 11:10, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Consensus seems to be not to publish it in mainspace. We're also not Wikipedia. Sorry, but this seems pretty sus. I don't want it in mainspace either. Carthage (talk) 11:13, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

You seem to be assuming I am talking about the draft regarding swimming in schools, but I am not. The pushback today seems to be saying I should not add any content regarding childhood nudity, neither in as a sub-page nor a section in the main article.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 11:19, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

My suggestion would be to save your energy. I doubt you're going to be able to convince the mob otherwise, despite whatever studies you cite. Perhaps focus on the racial caricatures and sports thing? Carthage (talk) 11:20, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Move

Hello. Why are you moving the pages I have created? --RationalApe (talk) 15:21, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Because they're short stubs. We here at RW don't really like stubs in mainspace. Draftspace exists for a reason. Carthage (talk) 15:23, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

The Sowa Rigpa article is fairly long. If it is in the mainspace, then other editors will be able to edit and expand it. As drafts, the articles will not be expanded. --RationalApe (talk) 15:25, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Anyone can edit draftspace, and the Sowa Rigpa article was still a stub. Look at the article I wrote, Jack Idema, and see what state it was in when I moved it to mainspace. Carthage (talk) 15:28, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Aporia magazine

Hello, you recently moved my newly created article for Aporia Magazine to Draft:Aporia_Magazine as well as corrected the title (thank you). What else do you think it needs to be in mainspace?

It's the first thing I've ever written on your website, so I don't know what it requires, and wasn't really planning on spending a whole lot of time on it. 14.202.111.87 (talk) 06:15, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

@14.202.111.87 It wasn't complete enough for mainspace, hence why I removed it. I suggest making an account. New article creations by BONs are inherently more suspect by their very nature. Carthage (talk) 06:47, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

So the main problem is that I'm an IP editor? Wouldn't it be more effective to investigate the sources, and see whether the claims in the article match the content of the publication being described? Isn't that the true measure of whether an article is accurate/rational? 84.247.91.14 (talk) 10:37, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Sorry for saying that your point was stupid

That was uncalled for. I still believe that you didn't read the page with attention: I even added a section about arguments against free trade, and I said that " free trade is an ideal (...) despite being a less-than-perfect policy" but I didn't have the right to insult you, hence I deleted the comment minutes after. GeeJayK^{Where all evil dwells} _{Where every lie is true} 12:22, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Apology accepted. Carthage (talk) 19:06, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

please stop wikicopping

i’m not a vandal. Chillpilled made a mistake and i’m trying to fix it. those categories are intended for people and not websites/organizations/etc. please read the descriptions of categories before you go revert-happy just because you don’t agree with the edits. going after every person with a shoot first, ask questions later mentality over the slightest mistakes on this wiki is not exactly a healthy one. not every BoN is a vandal. please be careful when reverting other peoples’ edits next time.2607:FB90:3930:D748:21E2:C915:68B5:21CE (talk) 05:44, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

I can see your interpretation but when it's a website/org that consists of single-digit amounts of people it's just a sometimes annoying distinction to make. It was spurred on by reading the denialism category and seeing concepts mixed in with every denialist website under the sun. Like the Daily Stormer is pretty much just Anglin for example. Chillpilled (talk) 09:01, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Interaction ban

This is a formal notice that you are hereby banned from interacting with User:A somebody..

Specifically, you are banned from doing the following actions:

• Edit their user talk page. This extends to subpages in their userspace and essay talkpages.
• Reply to them in discussions. Participation in the same discussions is still permitted, but direct responses are not.
• Reference them anywhere on RationalWiki, directly or indirectly.
• Revert their edits in any shape, way or form through the MediaWiki interface.

This sanction can be enforced by any sysop with incrementing blocks and attached talk page notices. Repeated violation may result in another Chicken coop or ATIM case being raised against you with the potential for further sanctions.
Plutocow (talk) 21:29, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Reverted modifications of Falun Gong

Hello, you reverted my modifications of Falun Gong. I would like to know why. I don't think there was any problem with them. Thanks. HLNL (talk) 12:25, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

You removed the edits describing some of the more problematic portents of the Falun Gong religion. If you would rewrite the article while still making sure to cover the problematic elements I wouldn't revert it. Carthage (talk) 12:39, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Okay, understood.HLNL (talk) 13:57, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Nomination

You've been nominated in the upcoming moderator elections. See the nomination at RationalWiki:Moderator elections/Nominations.

Bongolian (talk) 15:58, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello

You have reverted myself more than 3 times in the prostitution article vigorously wanting the section on socialism to state that most or all modern socialists support decriminalization of prostitution. While I am of course aware that the DSA and a few blogs support such a thing, please source your statement rather than edit war. If you do not I will need to add a citation needed as the DSA is not all modern socialists, it is a Democratic Party lobbying organization in a single country 2600:4040:403F:BF00:B65B:F55B:6224:24BA (talk) 23:37, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Prostitution#"Sources"

Yeah, the DSA is not all modern socialists. I didn't solely add a citation from the DSA. I added a Jacobin article and an article written by sex workers published by a British organization. The claim that my edits are unsourced is blatant bullshit. Carthage (talk) 23:40, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes, the other source you added as evidence that most or all modern socialists support decriminalization is an activist article in Jacobin entitled, "Socialists Should Support Sex Workers’ Rights" not "Socialists Support Sex Workers’ Rights". The last is a socialist feminist analysis of sex work written by a prostitute named Ava Caradonna. I don't think that the DSA, Ava Cardonna, and an advocacy article constitute anything close to evidence or even a proper set of citations for your claim that most or all modern socialists support decriminalization. I also think any reasonable person would agree. 2600:4040:403F:BF00:B65B:F55B:6224:24BA (talk) 23:41, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

So the opinions of sex workers are not relevant to an article about sex workers? That's hilarious. And, uh, an "activist article" about sex work? Sex work is a social justice issue. Also you're trying to paint socialists as uniformly not supporting sex work. The fact that two major socialist outlets and organizations are saying otherwise kind of belies that claim, as does the actual article written by sex workers. Things aren't as uniform as you make them out to be. Carthage (talk) 23:44, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

The fact that a self-identified socialist prostitute argues for prostitutes (including decriminalization) is not, in fact, evidence that most or all modern socialists support decriminalization of prostitution. It is a data point, a single one though. Even when paired with a DSA and Jacobin advocacy article this does not rise to the level of what you are claiming. Regardless of what any of those sources say about prostitution in general, none of them argue that most or all modern socialists support decriminalization of prostitution, which is the claim you are making 2600:4040:403F:BF00:B65B:F55B:6224:24BA (talk) 23:47, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Do you think the DSA and Jacobin have no influence among socialist circles? These ideas have currency. You're arguing that all socialists oppose sex work, which is evidently not true. A simple google search gave me a number of results, I'm sure I can come up with more. Have you ever engaged with modern socialist circles? Carthage (talk) 23:50, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Individual Jacobin articles are not by default representative of Jacobin as a whole. This goes for any editorial in any newspaper. However I would think that Jacobin likely supports decriminalization of prostitution from what I know about its owner. The fact that a US based online magazine and what account for about 2 blogs in countries with very small populations of socialists, are data points, but they are not sufficient data points for your claim that most or all modern socialists support decriminalization of prostitution. I am open to your claim being true, I don't have any personal investment in this issue, but your sources are not sufficient to your claim. 2600:4040:403F:BF00:B65B:F55B:6224:24BA (talk) 23:54, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

You still seem to ignore the fact that the DSA and Jacobin have currency in socialist circles. Julia Salazar, a democratic socialist, ran on a platform supporting sex workers and won. If even one counter-example exists to counter your narrative, you need to revise that narrative. Carthage (talk) 00:01, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

I am not aware of any socialist circles outside of the internet in the USA outside of meetings of like 5-6 people before Mimi Soltysik died. The DSA gettogethers are about a dozen people each in major cities. Jacobin is a very small online newspaper with currency in some socialist circles in the USA, a right-wing country with a very small and underdeveloped population of socialists who have mostly discarded their earlier and much larger counterparts who could run on tickets across the country 2600:4040:403F:BF00:B65B:F55B:6224:24BA (talk) 00:06, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Also the socialist SA Party in the USA, on the ground, is a total of about 2 people in the nations capital 2600:4040:403F:BF00:B65B:F55B:6224:24BA (talk) 00:08, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

You seem to be deliberately minimizing the influence both the DSA and the Jacobin have. If American socialist movements are irrelevant to other countries, so what? They're still relevant to American socialism. You also totally ignored the fact that Julia Serrano, a democratic socialist, ran on a platform supporting sex workers and won. Carthage (talk) 00:13, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ "Also the socialist SA Party in the USA, on the ground, is a total of about 2 people in the nations capital" OK now you're definitely minimizing. Don't waste my time. Most socialists in the US vote for the Democrats anyway. Carthage (talk) 00:14, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

My edit (even before this discussion) was a compromise to say that most US based socialists support decriminalization of prostitution. Even though I am not convinced of it, you have been reverting that edit to imply this is worldwide by Googling for blogs that support the decriminalization position from a socialist perspective in other countries. If most socialists supported decriminalization in any area, I think that would be notable, and someone would say that, your sources don't say that. New York City recently decriminalized prostitution, however it was not done or even spearheaded by socialists. 2600:4040:403F:BF00:B65B:F55B:6224:24BA (talk) 00:16, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

"New York City recently decriminalized prostitution, however it was not done or even spearheaded by socialists." If socialists had such little institutional authority in the States as you say they do, then what would it matter if it was spearheaded or not by socialists? Support for decriminalization of sex work is clearly being floated around by progressives, and a democratic socialist got elected on a platform of supporting sex workers. You're still deliberately minimizing these facts. Carthage (talk) 13:15, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Composition and sequence of pro-prostitution activism in USA (different discussion, not entirely related to your claim)

After re-reading this discussion, it seems your primary contention is one where you want to see the efforts of pro-prostitution activism in the US get recognition as socialist and at a wide level (note this is still not related to % of total socialists in USA, but it's at least something with more data points). You brought up Julia Salazar earlier, who I didn't know existed before. After researching, it turns out NYC didn't decriminalize prostitution. Manhattan was reported in the media to have, as a prosecutorial discretion decision not to prosecute by Manhattan District Attorney attorney general Cyrus R. Vance Jr. If you can find evidence that Cyrus R. Vance Jr. was influenced by Salazar or was himself a socialist, that might be worth adding to that section to bolster your general argument about socialist influence. However, Manhattan is not the first to have done this, being preceded by prosecutorial discretion changes in Baltimore and Philadelphia. In both those cases, it isn't clear what exactly is exempt from being prosecuted there (eg soliciting too?, or just the Swedish Model again), nor is it static. In the first cases of prosecutorial discretion changes in the last few decades, they appear to be a part of a basket of prosecutorial changes related to wanting to ease on jailing non-violent offenses, rather than a substantial shift in law or necessarily evidence of the conclusion of activism targeted at legislatures. Additionally, as decriminalization seems to hinge on year-to-year decisions of individual prosecutors, this seems a very flimsy thing to get excited about or to rally around (as opposed to longer-lasting changes in law). 2600:4040:403F:BF00:BF72:3012:50D5:BDD6 (talk) 17:03, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, that's what I want. I'll do some work on it later, but I have other projects to do, and seeing some really triggering stuff kind of killed my mood right now. Carthage (talk) 17:12, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

There's a lot of moving parts to this even if a line could be drawn from Salazar to Vance. For example, how Salazar framed the issue in relation to socialism, or if it was just a result of libertarianism, which isn't mutually exclusive from socialism, but is also not socialism itself. Right-liberatarians/ancaps argue for the same thing, and might also have had influence. But as far as the larger claim that pro-prostitution activism is something born from self-described socialist thought itself, and a part of self-described socialism in action, these things are usually decided by how long they last and how it was incorporated into theory. If this turns into a 50-100 year pattern for example, and extends beyond very tentative connections to possibly influencing some old men in a few cities in a single country, then that would also be good evidence. 2600:4040:403F:BF00:44D9:1599:D061:CEBF (talk) 17:32, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

As far as if pro-prostitution activism is intrinsicially related to a theory about worker ownership of means of production, socialist thought, including US-based famous socialist Mary Marcy have previously described female selling/bartering of sex, and even women as a sexual class in the USA as petite-bourgeois, basically equivalent to the petty shopkeeper, not the proletariat worker. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Marcy https://www.gutenberg.org/files/28050/28050-h/28050-h.htm2600:4040:403F:BF00:44D9:1599:D061:CEBF (talk) 17:37, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

How are you so active?

How can you edit so many times a day how much time you spend in this website ←§ Reichtangle (talk) 20:50, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

The benefits of being unemployed, my friend. Carthage (talk) 20:51, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

If only I had so much free time. I was so busy with college these past 2 years, I completely forgot all about this site until a couple weeks ago. --Goatspeed. _{Stalk me}CircularRasoning^{See my experiments} 19:58, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

References

Please don’t drop bare links as citations into articles. It looks bad, and formatting is quick and easy. You can see how to do it by looking at other examples on the pages you edit. I’m specifically talking about the Armenia and Azerbaijan page. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 20:44, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Fair. Usually if I drop bare links I intend to come back and reformat them later. I forget sometimes though. I'll keep that in mind going forward. {{cws}} has been a godsend in that regard. Carthage (talk) 20:47, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 22:22, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Brian Reynolds Myers and the South Korean Left

While South Korean liberals and leftists criticize Japan in an anti-imperialistic context, they have a sympathetic view of North Korea as the same 민족, Brian Reynolds Myers condemns this by referring to it as "race-based nationalism." What do you think about South Korean liberals and leftists taking a ethno-nationalist view of North Korea and Japan? (Myers has a left-wing view of American politics, but South Korean politics has a right-wing view.) Umaru16 (talk) 06:44, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Timing

I think it may be best to leave articles for demotion open for at least a day or so. Same for articles for deletion. Even a day is a pretty short period for any active users to get a chance to comment but an hour-ish is way too short. Chillpilled (talk) 04:06, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. Carthage (talk) 04:15, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

why? Palestine

Ok I have to know: why you, and so many self-avowes leftists, are supporting "Palestine" in the latest brawl? Because... I mean, it started because unprovoked the Hamas went and slaugthered 1600 people, deliberatingly targetting civilians, live streaming the killing of children and the rapes, taking hostages paraded in Gaza streets to applauding gazaouis. The Hamas, whose manifesto explicitely endorse jewish genocide, sexism and homophobia. Who leads a totalitarian theocratic regime, in a closed, conservative society that's far less liberal than in Israel. The Hamas promotes everything that leftists supposedly fight against. The palestinians negociators have repeatedly refused any peacefull settlement that does not include the 1948 refugees right to return, something Israel can't accept, and that involve the only people on earth being generational refugees. Palestinian camps have been also the source of several coups tentatives against the countries they're sent in. 2005 : Israel unilaterally leaves Gaza. 2006 : Gaza democratically elects Hamas. Since then, no élection allowed. But instead, several devastating wars each and every time started by the Hamas. Yet still they enjoy popular support. Not to say that the far right, colonialist supporter governement of Bibi is blameless, but at the moment the Hamas side is really dark black. So, why?2A02:8440:340A:B7CE:0:5C:623C:1F01 (talk) 23:02, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

I feel like you're leaving a lot of context out here TBH. I'm a little busy right now, but essentially I support Palestine the same reason I support Armenia: because it doesn't matter who has the boot on your neck, there's still a boot on your neck. It's also a false equivalency to state that to support Palestine is functionally equivalent to supporting Hamas, same with your (ironically enough) example, more of an after-thought, that supporting Bibi is not the same as supporting Israel. As for this current war, I support the civilians. Hamas started it, yeah, well that ignores history, but they certainly conducted the October 7th genocide, but Israel's currently waging a brutal war that has proportionately cost more lives than Hamas' attack on Israel. (If you respond don't expect a timely response. I'm busy.) Carthage (talk) 00:29, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

So, you support the losers, even if they're the ones in the wrong? If you're on the side of civilians, why not oppose Hamas? Or be on the side that *does* protect its arab minority? And what context would make this Palestine support ok?

If the context is this particular bout of violence, it has been started by the Hamas and their genocidal attack, after having managed to embezzle sufficient funds and equipment to make rockets and guns instead of improving the life of gazaouis. Since there was already a blocus in place, what were the Israelis supposed to be doing? Not reduce the Hamas threat with war? Negociations are kinda hard when the other side position is "From the river to the sea".

If the context is Gaza-Israel conflict? Then in 2005, the Israelis unilaterally dismantled the colonies in Gaza. What was the result? In 2006, the gazaouis freely, democratically elect radical islamists, that spends the next 15 years regularly indiscriminately bombing Israel. All the while receiving international aid, and turning it into rockets. All the while being totalitarian theocrats at home.

If the context is the wider Palestinian conflict, then it started in 1948 by all neigbhouring arab countries deciding to refuse to apply the 1948 UN partition plan, and trying to genocide jews yet again. Then they lost (and some arabs flew, therefore Naqba), again in 1967, and again in 1973. Basically, why would Israel think that it would be safe if it didn't severly control the palestinian territories? Israel has a 20% arab population, how many jews haven't been killed or chasen away in neigbhouring countries? The Palestinian Authority even has a martyr fund specifically to pay the families of terrorists. Now, Israel (and Bibi) supported the installation of more than 100 illegal colonies, and the continuous harassment and spoliation of palestinian civilians in Cisjordania, yep. But the context makes these actions a bit more complex, no?

Now if the context is the fate of this geographic area, then it hasn't been independant since antiquity. Always part of an empire or another. And if we're being cheeky (but correct), arabs are *invaders*.(as they are everywhere in the middle east except Arabia). It's not like Israelis don't have ancestors from the place... If we're being less cheeky, and look at demographic data from the ottomans time, then there were jews, arabs, and various flavors of christians. No palestinian yet, as before 1948 their national consciousness didn't exist yet. Now the jewish proportion increased due to immigration, and some palestinians flew during the Naqba. Now those ones are the only humans on the planet where their refugee status is generational, and they ask to return to a country their parents weren't born in.

I'm technically in favor of a one-state-solution, but reastically I think that a two state solution would be the most possible compromise, but the Hamas is working exactly at odds with it. And they enjoy popular support, despite being incredibly far-right.(sorry for the formatting)2A02:8440:3416:2551:0:4F:BD3:B801 (talk) 11:00, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

The 1948 UN border was unequal, giving Israel 56% ([) of land they had no right to give. There is also no indication that the Zionists were gonna accept the partition indefinitely. In fact Zionist leaders viewed the partition as a stepping stone to conquer all of Palestine: [See the Wikipedia article on United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine.

The Naqba and Naqsa were not just "some Arabs flew," but organized campaigns of ethnic cleansing and state terror. [3] (Here's an example of Israeli violence in the Naqba: Deir Yassin massacre. A 1971 report found that, for the Naksa, the Israelis were using deliberate policies to prevent Palestinians returning to their homes, or even forcing them out of their homes. ([4])

Israel itself was founded through a campaign of sustained terrorism.

Whether or not a Palestinian national consciousness existed before 1948 is irrelevant. It exists now.

Genetic data shows substantial genetic continuity in Levantine Arab populations with pre-Arab populations. [5] [6]. You're not correct here, then. Arab refers as much to cultural identity as it does to actual descent. And Arabs are not interchangeable. Also early Zionist literature, a la The Iron Wall, recognized that Zionism was a colonial movement. Herzel, the spiritual founder of Zionism, also said as much in a letter to Cecil fucking Rhodes: [7]

"Israel has a 20% Arab population" who live under Jim Crow like conditions: [8]

"Now those ones are the only humans on the planet where their refugee status is generational" I wonder why. It's not like they weren't violently removed from their land and everything they owned. Palestinians are systematically marginalized in places like Lebanon and Jordan. [9] Also, the Jewish diaspora was (and is) multigenerational. I don't really see how this is a relevant objection.

Gaza elected Hamas because of PA corruption. Hamas has not held an election (and neither have the PA) since then. I feel like you are also severely downplaying the effects of the Israeli blockade.

Hamas has actually negotiated with Israel before. They're not stupid monkeys. Netanyahu also deliberately propped up Hamas as an asset [10].

The fact you snidely mention that I "support the losing side" is telling. It doesn't matter if someone is a genocidal colonizer as long as they win, right? Might makes right? This right here makes me suspicious of any claim of yours to uphold liberal values. Might makes right is an authoritarian doctrine. Carthage (talk) 18:25, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

Also, it probably should be mentioned that with the median age of the population that the Gaza strip has, more than a significant number of its current population weren’t of voting age at the time of Hamas’s election. In addition to that, the support for Hamas was not unconditional, without reluctance, nor entirely motivated by ideology. Previous peace-negotiations were ineffective in stopping the expanding settlements, and the PLO was viewed as being complacent with at least some displacement of the Palestinian population. Throughout the 80’s and 90’s Israel rejected most of the peace deals offered, and during times of active conflict was prone to ignoring calls for ceasefire from the UN. HAMAs was at the time of the early 2000’s one of the only organizations that could provide Palestinians living in the Gaza strip with stable and reliable access to food, water, and other necessary resources. There wasn’t anyone else to reliably depend on. To frame the election of HAMAs as if it was this totally willing, totally non-circumstantial, and totally based in agreement to the genocidal aims of the terrorist organization, is notably dishonest. Also, you ask “why not oppose HAMAs?” but like, why does being for Palestinian liberation necessitate not being opposed to HAMAs? I think HAMAs has strategically manipulated and formed a stronghold over a vulnerable colonized population, and have acted irresponsibly to the endangerment of human lives in Gaza. They are wrong for what they have done to Israeli civilians, but they are also wrong for acting in such a way that, any reasonable actor would recognize, will result in a disproportionate death toll for Palestinians, as these conflicts almost always do. I think it is totally possible for both Jewish settlers and the indigenous Palestinians to live peacefully on that land, but that requires efforts towards decolonization. Something that can only be implemented with relatively less violence if Israel takes initiative to help make it a reality. If that doesn’t happen, native arabs will get desperate, radicalized, and more willing to act abhorrently. In the end, it will result in a greater net loss of Jewish lives over time. - Only Sort of Dumb (talk) 23:48, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

It is also very interesting to see how early Zionist thought was that Israel was a settler-colonial project and that the Arabs were indigenous to Palestine, and then that propaganda shift as decolonization became part of the Overton Window and people became more sympathetic to the plight of indigenous peoples that the propaganda shifted from "Israel is a colonist project" to "Jewish-Israelis are the indigenous people of Palestine and the Palestinians are the 'real' colonizers." Carthage (talk) 09:11, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ I also have to ask, from a purely conflict resolution POV: when has brute military forced ever successfully resolved a conflict based on grievance? You can go back through all insurgencies, revolutions, protest movements, whatever. The goal is to provoke an overreaction, like what's happening in Gaza right now: 20k people dead. It makes people sympathize with the "little guy." Generates recruitment. What stopped the Troubles? Bringing the Republicans to the table. Into the political process. And don't tell me "but Hamas/Palestine/whatever won't negotiate." They will, and they do, and they have. The peace process has proven unfruitful for Palestine, hence why armed struggle continues. "War is the continuation of politics by other means." One of the reasons the October 7th attack was launched was because of the Arab-Israeli normalization process. Hamas felt that they, and by extension Palestine, were getting sidelined. Forgotten. Marginalized. Hence why they launched the attack. It worked. "Give peace a chance" is what solves conflicts like these. Carthage (talk) 13:21, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

There's literally an American government manual on this: [11]. I'm gonna quote the relevant passage:

The urban (terrorist) approach is an approach in which insurgents attack government and symbolic targets (for example an important religious building) to cause government forces to overreact against the population. The insurgents want the government’s repressive measures to enrage the people so that they rise up and overthrow the government.

For reference that's chapter 4, paragraph 42.

The paragraph goes on, and this particular passage is particularly relevant for Palestinian "support" of Hamas:

Although this type of method may develop popular support against a government that is particularly brutal or corrupt, it may only result in shallow support for the insurgency. The population may only see the insurgency positively because of the brutal response, not because they identify with the insurgency.

Same chapter and paragraph as above. Carthage (talk) 13:34, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Let's put one thing clear : I am very much *not* in favor of "might makes right". I was accusing you of the reverse fallacy, "weak makes right", which seems imho sadly too widespread among lefty activists. You asked for one example of successful military answer to insurgencies : I have several, my favorite is the Tamul Tigers. The military offensive of 2009 in fact, solved the conflict with brute force (and not being terribly repressive after that). But let's get back to the conflict at hand. The Israelis, *also* show genetic continuity, and lots of them in fact are from families that didn't move there four generations ago. The UN partition plan of 1948 has been contested, in full, by the arabs since the beginning, who just want *no* jewish state. Not a smaller one. No. In fact, the 1948 "ethnical cleansings" went on on both sides... one of them just has won, and you will notice that it has been far, far less drastic than any of the jewish pogroms in the middle east. No, AlJazeera is not a credible source on the subject. (By the way, the fate of the koptics, kabyls, kurds and other non-arab minorities show exactly what would happen to jews if a minority in their own country -and that's what would happen if the descendants of the 1948 refugees came back). Palestinians organizations have tried to take over Lebanon & Jordan. The descendants of refugees today haven't been forced out of their homes. And if descendants have the right to return, then why the jewish diaspora didn't ?

But if you want to focus on today's situation, because palestinians have a consciousness *now* that did not exist before 1967, then okay. I also think it's more important to focus on the present (while not forgetting the past). The Hamas is the totalitarian theocratic leader (and the PA the corrupt, dictatorial leader) of a much more closed, homophobic, sexist society than Bibi & the Israeli society. Said country is, at the moment, in a military counterattack against a enemy that perpetrated a genocidal attack against them. I don't see why anyone supporting a lefty political position should support the side that's the morally worse on nearly all fronts, except on the ethnical cleansing one, because they already ethnically cleansed all they could.2A02:8429:2E9:4101:9B6:A0FE:DE13:A886 (talk) 17:09, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

I think I'm not gonna bother responding to a blatant Gish Gallop complete with strawmen, copious amounts of whataboutism, historically dodgy "analysis," usage of the genetic fallacy, anti-Palestinian racism, and just plain propaganda. Plenty of people smarter than me have written and talked extensively on this subject. Stop polluting my talk page. Carthage (talk) 08:16, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

...what, Gish Gallop, when you've written way more arguments than me? ... Well, OK. I can assure you I'm not trolling though. I may be aggressively wondering why in my vague political group (left), some are siding with the side that, to me, looks like the most antidemocratic, sexist, homophobic and genocidal.165.225.205.44 (talk) 10:49, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Hiya!

I don't know if pinging still works on this website, so I'm leaving this here to let you know I responded on the Talk page of the Nudity article. G'luck! - Rairyu75 (Talk) 03:00, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

All things in moderation

A case involving you has been raised at All things in moderation. Feel free to comment. Plutocow (talk) 06:19, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia

For the section Bias, the only sources of the removed content were primary. Ledes do not need sourcing, and theoretically there shouldn’t be sources for ledes. (Only many articles fall out. You might see one editor or another removing them any time on such articles. Ww2 is a widely known subject). If sources are in contradiction, it will be presented as debated, and all POVs referenced with reliable sources will be shown. The only exceptions are niche subjects, which is a big flaw of Wikipedia. Cheers. 80.209.216.81 (talk) 06:24, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Hamas

Stop it with claim of Hamas being a terrorist org, only a few countries that describe as such most view them as a resistant movemeent ^{— Unsigned, by: 196.127.240.80 / talk / contribs}

My folk, I'm probably one of the most pro-Palestinian people on this wiki. Hamas is a terrorist group by definition. This does not in anyway undermine the Palestinian cause. You can be pro-Palestine while also recognizing that Hamas is a terrorist group. Don't be an ideologue. Carthage (talk) 02:27, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm not saying that you're not, I'm saying to be impartial, because the description of being a terrorist orgazionation is used a lot by the west to dismiss any claim of legitimacy for a lot of other movements like Nelson Mandela for example, apart of the Middle look up any groupe that tried to resist the US in South America ^{— Unsigned, by: 196.127.240.80 / talk / contribs}

For fuck's sake, please, this is not difficult! Sign your posts with (~~~~) or (if that's too fucking hard) by clicking on the fucking sign BUTTON: on the toolbar above the edit panel. (You can indent successive talk page comments using one more colon (:) for each line.) This keeps the place tidy and stops you looking like a complete arsing tool so please, just fucking do it already. I know you know how to --Goatspeed. _{Stalk me}CircularRasoning^{See my experiments} 02:45, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

“”Anyone who wants to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state needs to support strengthening Hamas.

Benjamin Netanyahu

Hamas and Netanyahu literally need each other. Monet ^Ye 19:12, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Schizoids.net

Hey, what exactly needs to be done so as to post it in the mainspace? The forum is so insignificant that it deserves nothing more than a stub but serves as a specimen of the "contarian right" paranoid delusional mind (all the usual talking points combined in one forum).Critical Rationalist (talk) 21:28, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

I would recommend just making it a subsection of an already existing article if we must have one on it. Either that, or make it an essay. Carthage (talk) 21:30, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

What do you mean by "essay"? I thought you had rather lax incusion criteria compared with Wikipedia. Anyway, as I admitted it's a niche nutcase forum that only has relevance due to promoting virtually all the anti-mainstream views (including the most absurd ones such as the 9/11 hoax theories) simultaneously.Critical Rationalist (talk) 21:36, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

RW:Essay. Carthage (talk) 21:38, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

All right, I'll convert it into an essay in the morning.Critical Rationalist (talk) 21:44, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

For context, the user calling himself Critical Rationalist (everyone who knows him laughed when they saw what name he'd picked for himself) is an alcoholic, emotionally unhinged, and now former member of the site in question. The only reason he created the draft page is because he holds a years-old grudge that nobody knows the origin of. The site admin would prefer that the draft be deleted. Thank you. (PS, Mear: IP addresses are allocated dynamically in my country, and I get a new one every time I switch my router off and on again, so your veiled threat wasn't as terrifying as you think it was. Don't waste your time attempting anything illegal. Instead, do something productive, such as going for a walk, or having a long conversation with your therapist.)80.43.34.98 (talk) 12:16, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Hey

I owe you an apology for the past feud. I wasn’t trying to act petty, I just disagree strongly about a few topics sometimes. I hope we’re cool. Oh and it’s good seeing you again. Rational Dude (talk) 15:50, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Carthage (talk) 15:50, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

No problem. Rational Dude (talk) 15:54, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

What do you think of the articles I've added since your uh temporary retirement? Carthage (talk) 15:55, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Very good, you’ve done an excellent job. You should keep it up, I may need some assistance with some drafts here and there. Rational Dude (talk) 15:59, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

That's the plan, and thank you. Carthage (talk) 16:01, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Cool, I’m glad we’re on the same page, and you’re welcome. Rational Dude (talk) 16:14, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, your main space contributions have been pretty great, Carthage. Well done! 🎄Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano🎄^{Ask about our holiday specials!} 14:56, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I try to be as constructive as possible in mainspace and keep my... let's just say hot takes to the talk pages and the bar. Carthage (talk) 15:49, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

What Duce said. Rational Dude (talk) 22:14, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

are you user:vee?

just wondering Zyzzyvas (talk) 06:32, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Drafts

I have a couple drafts on some obscure fascists and fascist groups (like Mohammad Hosseini and Restart). Do you think you might be able to move these pages to the mainspace? If you ever find the time and interest to check them out, please do. Rational Dude (talk) 22:15, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Imagine having a rule that forbids you from deleting stuff from your Talk page.

Uwu.

- Rairyu75 (Talk) 18:03, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

I know, it's a travesty I tell you. Carthage (talk) 18:04, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Caught a vandal red-handed.

I just rollbacked blatant vandalism from some schmuck calling themselves "thebraveone" at the Alan Watt article. They also appear to have already made a backup account, as if we wouldn't notice two accounts with very similar names being created and making trouble at the same time. Where's a facepalm emoji when you need one?! --Luigifan18 (talk) 14:24, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Special delivery!

Magnificent. - Rairyu75 (Talk) 22:43, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

ABD

Don't undo my valid edits. MtD^Bogan 04:33, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

@Matty the Damned, it was a misclick. You can see I reverted my mistake as soon as I saw it. Carthage (talk) 04:57, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

@carthage My error. I apologise for my intemperate response. I should've paid closer attention. MtD^Bogan 06:10, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Formatting citations

Apologies for the delay, I've been formatting citations I've added in various articles. I was not purposely ignoring your criticisms, I've just been rushing when adding because I'm used to fast editing. If there's any citations you need me to format, please let me know by linking them to me and I'll fix them immediately. Rational Dude (talk) 19:49, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

This was missing on your page.

Super BASED Pimp Daddy is here!

Arcadium Trancefer (talk) 12:11, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

You're right. Carthage (talk) 12:12, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

How to Move My Draft Into the Mainspace

I am trying to move Draft: Valentina Gomez into the mainspace, so that it may become an official article. I tried to follow the instructions listed on RationalWiki: Drafts, but it is still listed as a draft. What should I do? PeaRidge62 (talk) 23:07, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Oh, I think it's because only sysops can move pages. I just moved it for you. Carthage (talk) 23:09, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. Have a nice day. PeaRidge62 (talk) 23:16, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Rather weird my edit was reverted

Qwertydiy (talk) 07:12, 30 May 2024 (UTC) I decided to clarify that another person was not E. Michael Jones as they had the same name. I don't get why mine was reverted. Could you please clarify?

Sup car

So I formatted the citations and references on any pages I could find. Do they look better now? Rational Dude (talk) 14:16, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Take a good look at what you owned.

Those days, never to return again... *sniff*

Arcadium Trancefer (talk) 13:46, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

I came, I saw, I got my ass kicked by Scipio. Carthage (talk) 18:15, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

*sniff* *sniff*. Arcadium Trancefer (talk) 19:26, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Don’t cry because it’s gone. Smile because it existed. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 20:24, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Did you ever actually look at the "articles for demotion" page?

There was an IP user that removed the "demotion" notice on the page for trans-exclusionary radical feminism, and you rolled back the edit assumedly because it was made by an IP user. The edit was completely valid, however, because the proposal for demotion had already reached its conclusion earlier this month. So unfortunately, as much as it pains me to do this (kinda sorta)...

Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Somebody just wants to let you know you did something silly.

Don't rush to judgment, friend, and keep on editing for the rational cause 😎

Yes, I know I'm a dork.

Sincerely, Postuhenin the neurodivergent doodlebug! (say hi! ^^) 21:34, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Mini-essays

Since you're removing Luigifan's "mini-essays", there's a very convenient list on his user page Ioe bidome (talk) 17:51, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Excellent work! Scream!! (talk) 18:03, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

That's enough for now, methinks. My back hurts and I have shit to do. Thank you for the compliment, and thank you, Luigifan, for the handy-dandy list you so kindly left us. Carthage (talk) 18:11, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

I'd also like to point out that if one checks luigifan's contributions, control f "snark", you can easily find more footnotes added by him. Ioe bidome (talk) 20:06, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Correcting edits

Did you find any other articles that need better rewording? I can do it for you so don’t have to do all the work, since I created most of these pages. Rational Dude (talk) 18:58, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Not yet. Carthage (talk) 18:59, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

When you do, please ping me on the talk page of the article and I’ll get started. Rational Dude (talk) 02:25, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

I dunno if I used the @ properly

But I would like to know what main space I violated. I'm fine with any revisions for any reasons, I'm just extremely unaware. I have been a fan of the site for over a decade, I have been getting blackout drunk for over a decade, I really don't think I would mix main space with opinion. I need to know exactly what you mean by revert because opinion is not main space. For myself. Torrent (talk) 03:58, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

For future reference, pinging someone is done with {{ping}}. Plutocow (talk) 04:14, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Okay, future man, that's helpful. I love playing with the gizmos. Here goes {{[[Template:|]]|ping}} You want to explain how it works? No, it's fine, I can wait. I wasn't quick to respond to a ping because obviously that only works if you understand how it works, and fully on me, I still don't get it. Original question still stands. Why didn't I accept mod nominations back in the day, sheeesh. Help me out, please. Torrent (talk) 07:03, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

You added gibberish into mainspace and left your tag. Mainspace is not a forum. The talk page is for comments. Carthage (talk) 07:09, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

You got a board nomination

or something like that, I dunno. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 20:03, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Autopatrolling

You autopatrolled someone who was on the wiki for less than a day and is now repeating Russian threats about how arming Ukraine is putting us towards a nuclear war. Please don't do that. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 23:16, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

I saw their edits on neoliberalism, which I thought were good, and gave them autopatrolled because I thought this was a new constructive user, and patrolling a ton of edits from a constructive user would've been annoying. I was hasty, yes. Carthage (talk) 23:18, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough. I get it. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 23:50, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Suharto

I removed the family section because that was in the original page before it was moved, which focused on his family. I’m working on making pages for his individual family members, so there’s no need to add them back. Rational Dude enter thy lair 14:38, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

OK. Carthage (talk) 16:09, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Here we go again…

Uh… why was my comment on the Goat page about making a mascot for the site removed? It seems harmless at worst, all things considered. --Luigifan18 (talk) 23:59, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Self-promotion in mainspace? Nah. Carthage (talk) 00:02, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

…Fair enough, though I wasn't trying to come across as tooting my own horn. I was literally only trying to mention the site mascot proposal thing, which is why I referred to myself in third-person — the intention was less self-promotion and more to announce "somebody is trying to make a mascot for RationalWiki". It doesn't really matter who's making the mascot, just that a mascot is being made. I do understand the hang-up with self-promotion in mainspace, though. Just having to change first-person remarks in mainspace to something that's less "solitary opinion" can be enough of a headache. A wiki is supposed to be collaborative, darn it! --Luigifan18 (talk) 00:09, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

How many times do you have to be told no one is interested in your pet project? You should acknowledge that consensus has already been reached. Carthage (talk) 00:13, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Question

Can I edit your drafts if you have any? I wanted to ask before I edit so you'd know before hand. Rational Dude enter thy lair 15:19, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't have any drafts. Carthage (talk) 16:26, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Well, can I edit and add more to your articles? Rational Dude enter thy lair 20:55, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

This is a collaborative project. You don't need to ask that. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 20:56, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

You don't need to ask permission, as Duce said, but I appreciate the recognition all the same. Out of curiosity, what articles are you planning to expand on? Carthage (talk) 21:21, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

No problem. I want to specifically expand Jack Idema and appeal to trauma. I know they’re already pretty full, but I wanted to add some more info and rephrase some of the sentences in a few parts. I just wanted to ask first so you wouldn’t get the idea that I was spamming edits, sometimes that is an issue. Rational Dude enter thy lair 14:12, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

OK. I'm looking forward to seeing your edits. Carthage (talk) 14:14, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you kindly :) Rational Dude enter thy lair 16:34, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Ban Evasion?

Who was "Kackles" supposed to be? Arcadium Trancefer (talk) 13:42, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Looked like User:Elvis is King’s typical bullshit to me. —cosmikdebris ^talk stalk 15:33, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

What cosmik said. Carthage (talk) 15:55, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

First time seeing EiK posting antisemitism though, maybe it's an impersonator. GeeJayK^{Where all evil dwells} _{Where every lie is true} 20:04, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Whitewashing again

I notice you reported the user Gingercat a couple months ago for transphobic whitewashing. They're back at it. I "promoted" them to non-Autopatroller and protected the page for now. Might be good to keep a weather eye. Burnt Toast (talk) 19:32, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

No one gave a shit then. Thanks for giving a shit now. Carthage (talk) 19:33, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Just topic ban this person. GeeJayK^{Where all evil dwells} _{Where every lie is true} 20:04, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Replying to Carthage - It's frustrating how often transphobic talking points seem to function as a derailment tactic. That discussion should've focused on Gingercat's edit-warring/whitewashing instead of trying to debate them out of their Kindergarden Cop understanding of biology. Sorry that I'm only sporadically active. But it might be worth reporting again if they keep this up. Burnt Toast (talk) 20:10, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I'll start an ATIM. Bongolian (talk) 20:21, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

I did give a shit then, just that the issue fizzled out and I'm not into dead-horse flogging. KarmaPolice (talk) 21:07, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks!

For the link to a article on Technocracy. V helpful to the person currently overhauling RW's page for it! KarmaPolice (talk) 20:02, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome! Carthage (talk) 20:02, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Hindutva

I removed racism because we need a few more better sources, which I have been finding, and also because it’s more religionist than racist (though there is some racialist elements in some factions), and I relieved fascism as part of revamping the article because of reports of critics being shut down, and I don’t want us to get in trouble again with a possible legal settlement after the previous fiasco. Rational Dude enter thy lair 15:58, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

I think you'd need to bring that up with the board. Carthage (talk) 16:12, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Alright, thanks for understanding. Rational Dude enter thy lair 16:27, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Hey

Do you have a discord? I’d like to add you if that’s alright with you. Rational Dude enter thy lair 21:00, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

What's yours? Carthage (talk) 00:59, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Ereh101, feel free to add me. What’s yours? Rational Dude enter thy lair 13:55, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Plait

So what was the justification for reverting my edits to Phil Plait? They were all factual and, unlike my edits, you left no rational for your revert. ^{— Unsigned, by: 2001:8004:15a0:2138:c064:90d2:60af:f02d / talk / contribs}

They were added without citation. Have citations on hand next time. Carthage (talk) 11:50, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Vandal

So, is the penis vandal back? Also, why do we have pictures like this here (same for that rancid picture from yesterday)? Arcadium Trancefer (talk) 17:35, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Yep. I tried redirecting the image but apparently that's a permission reserved for techs and mods. Carthage (talk) 17:36, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

I can't vaporize the image. If someone tells me how to do it [and my mod powers allow me to] I will. KarmaPolice (talk) 17:45, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

I do recall there being the possibility of redirecting a given image to a blank pixel, which seems to be what Carthage mentioned. Speaking of that kind of thing, why do we have a literal picture of diarrhea? --Luigifan18 (talk) 17:53, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @Plutocow usually redirects these images to [[File:Blocked commons image.jpg]]. Perhaps you could do that? Also, I don't know what image you're speaking of, Luigi, but that was likely a Wikimedia Commons image. That's where our LTA gets his shit from usually. Carthage (talk) 17:54, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't know how to do that either. KarmaPolice (talk) 17:55, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Create the page and include the redirect to "Blocked commons image.jpg". (The page doesn't exist before that. A nonexistent page loads the image from Commons. A redirect page changes it to our blank image.) Then protect the page after. --ApooftGnegiol (talk) 17:58, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

"Blocked commons image.jpg" is what I was referring to (I didn't recall the exact name). And I figured that it was usually Plutocow who redirects stuff there. --Luigifan18 (talk) 18:05, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I was answering Karma originally. I threw in a response to you once I noticed the edit conflict. Carthage (talk) 18:06, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

(ec)(ec again)You have to type in the URL manually to get it to work. It's probably easiest to do by going into the redlinked file talk page and removing " talk" from the URL. It's not restricted by permission, any non-blocked user can do this (but you need sysop permissions to protect it). Plutocow (talk) 18:07, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Think that's all of it... KarmaPolice (talk) 12:42, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

IOF

It was literally today looking at the redirects you created when I found out that "IOF" was supposed to stand for "Israel Occupation Forces" and not "Israel Offense Forces". Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 16:21, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Huh. Well you learn something new everyday, I guess. Carthage (talk) 16:24, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

reverting my edit

I was wondering why you did so on Periodic Table, it is commonly accepted that Dmitri Mendeleyev didn't create the table but rather made the commonly accepted version of it.

Also would you be able to restore Dmitri Mendeleyev and move it to some draft space so I can work on it? MethodsOfRationality (talk) 14:47, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Could you provide a citation for that claim? Carthage (talk) 14:57, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

https://www.asbmb.org/asbmb-today/science/020721/a-brief-history-of-the-periodic-table I can give you others if you wish MethodsOfRationality (talk) 15:09, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I meant to add to the article. I removed your edit because it was uncited. Carthage (talk) 15:22, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Oh okay, I'll do that, but would you be able to restore and move my draft as well? also this wiki needs a better captcha method for filtering bots, I spent 5 minutes solving one, it's unbearable. Wikipedias type the scrambled words puzzle is so much faster and does the job MethodsOfRationality (talk) 15:24, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

I already did. Also, I'm not the right person to bring captcha up to. That'd be these guys. Carthage (talk) 15:30, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, I will bring up the issue at the tech support page MethodsOfRationality (talk) 15:48, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Antivax: Taking this away from the chickencoop

It was, yeah, but I would argue it didn't grow the beard, become mainstream, until the Trump era. There was also like a political shift. In the 2000s antivaxxers were commonly thought of being, you know, on the left. Moonbats. At least to the best of my knowledge —you

I maintained, based on evidence I read, that the anti-vax movement, even in 20010ish was far more conservative than popular perception articulated. Research had found a deep trend that it had a rightward bent, and among the "left" leaning elements who were anti-vax they were more conservative than the average democrat by opinions. I feel like I was the only one not surprised when the right collectively became anti-vaxxers in 2021. The actual measurable evidence had always supported the conclusion that it was a conservative phenomenon, with a superficially "hippy" sheen. if you look at the literature before covid the popular perception that it was a "left" phenomenon was just totally not supported. The numbers you see is like 80% of vaccine refusal was by politically conservative people. It's always been the right. Even when the far left is popularly perceived to be at fault, it's the right in measurable practice. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 18:19, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

That's interesting. Thank you for this. Do similar statistics hold up for other pseudoscientific movements typically associated with the left? Anti-nuclear comes to mind. Carthage (talk) 18:21, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I doubt it. I wish it were that easy to just dismiss every dumbass ally who takes the dumb opinions as secretly the enemy. But in this case, it was. Part of it is the anti-vax, compared to anti-nuclear, is an ideology derived from thinking you're better than everyone else, and above consequences. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 18:36, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Question from a noob

I wrote a page on indie game dev/FNaF creator Scott Cawthon and i do admit its a bit crap, i did my best to format it the best i could and do enough research to justify its inclusion, as i think the guy as a figure and through his actions is fairly interesting to read about.

It was drafted i think so i guess that means i need to do better on it, so could i get some tips on making it a bit more neat, as well as profile advice, i like the way yours is formatted and would like advice.

Thank you :) Maztr on (talk) 00:45, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

This would be a good starting point for you to jump off from. Also thank you for the complement, but I don't exactly know what you want out of a profile. Carthage (talk) 00:51, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

User:Edict123456789

Care to check this user out? They've been necroposting, adding nonsensical templates to articles, calling random inactive users trolls in discussions from several months if not years ago, and they also redid an edit which was reverted here, not sure if they are trying to create drama or doing it in good faith, might be worth checking out though Giorgio F. Reggiani (talk) 17:20, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

I apologise. I was a bit too overenthusiastic in my edits. I'll keep lurking from now on. --Edict123456789 (talk) 18:08, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

@Edict123456789 Hey, don't sweat it! it happens to the best of us, we're happy to have an enthusiastic editor willing to contribute here! I hope the others didn't scare you away, you're more than welcome to edit, just maybe do more stuff in the mainspace, rather than call people out in old and discussions like User:Giorgio F. Reggiani mentioned The MoR (talk) 21:42, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Has he been using ref notes aswell? Arcadium Trancefer (talk) 17:21, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Yes.Giorgio F. Reggiani (talk) 17:25, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm gonna refrain from making any definite statements about this new user, but we're keeping an eye on them. I also just put them in the vandal bin. That will restrict their edit rate to one edit every 30 minutes. Carthage (talk) 17:22, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

That should probably do the trick Giorgio F. Reggiani (talk) 17:25, 12 October 2024 (UTC)