RationalWiki talk:Saloon bar/Archive2

This is an archive page, last updated 6 December 2024. Please do not make edits to this page.

Archives for this talk page:

<1>

, (new)(back)

½

½? Why do we have a ½ archive? It won't show up in the auto-list. ^talk 12:11, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

It's an archive of the talk page rather than the Saloon Bar itself. Previous one is at RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive78½. I have no idea why this is happening. Weaseloid^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 12:29, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

In fact this guy is responsible both times. Wèàšèìòìď^{Methinks it is a Weasel} 12:31, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Sorry for archiving to the wrong place! Could someone (I don't think I should) move this to RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Archive1, and delete this as the conversations seem to have been moved back for some reason? Jc86035 (talk) 10:19, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

how do I use this website

i want to log in but my account's password is a scramble and i don't have ym password database but also i want to contribute but like editing a wiki is kinda intimidating bc it feels like if i give out anythingthat isn't 100% right I'm spreading misinformation and bleh basically what I'm really asking is how do i get over wiki anxiety??? 24.120.253.250 (talk) 02:08, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

If you're unable to login, you should probably bring it up at RationalWiki:Technical support. In the meantime, you should go ahead and try making some smaller edits or creating some pages in the Draft namespace. As long as what you have is sourced and well-worded, you should be fine. Any misinformation can be corrected by other people, and I'm sure they'll be reasonable with you once you let them know you're new. However, you'll first want to get that account sorted. Or else I suppose you can try creating a new one. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 02:30, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Well if you're not confident about dropping an edit, why not ask one of us if your edit is fine? How do you get over wiki anxiety? Well, be nice and honest to people. They'll be more than happy to guide the way. And you have to edit a lot. Everyone started as a newbie. Why not play around with the sandbox? --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 02:48, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

"And I'm sure they'll be reasonable with you once you let them know you're new." But also get prepared to be personally attacked and insulted as fuck. -Lankaster (talk) 22:51, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

i figured out how to use it. just stay on wigo and saloon bar talk pages and yell at randos 24.120.253.250 (talk) 22:36, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

im confused about the saloon and the back alley, because i dont know how to do the time and worried i may be banned about that, but no one really would do that right? i think its 4 squiggles kkpw (talk) 18:55, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, it's four squiggles. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 14:40, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

i did it

hi its me 24.120.253.250 I finally made an account on this the genious brain hell site (not to be confused with other hell sites like bird hell ) Transbeeism (talk) 23:12, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Congratulations, you're only a few edits away from not having captchas anymore. (wait, is there some role I can give them to spare them that?) ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 19:29, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

@Ikanreed I gave it to them just now, but for future reference, autopatrolled is the manual version of autoconfirmed. —Dorianha Bogelund (talk) 04:49, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Appeal to memory

Appeal to memory - assuming that the ability to accurately remember something effects the credence of a claim. this is a logical fallacy because something being true or false is independent of the memory. The claim can still be true even if they misremembered something they used as proof for their argument. Also a claim can still be false even if they perfectly remembered something they used as proof for their argument. No matter how bad or good a person's memory is it is not evidence of proving or disproving a point presented.

Logical form examples:

Person 1 makes a point backing it up with evidence from an event Person 2 does not remember an event that occurs in premise Person 2 therefore person 1 point is faulty (The person's memory is faulty, the point itself has yet to find fault)

Person 1 makes a point backing it up with evidence using data from the internet they remembered incorrectly Person 2 points out that person 1 incorrectly remembered data Person 2 says person 1's point is invalid because of this (The data presented is invalid because it is not the real data from the source. However the point itself has yet to find fault)

Person 1 makes a point that is backed up with evidence from an event Person 2 demonstrates that person misremembered event Person 2 therefore person 1's point is faulty

(The evidence is faulty but the validity of the point has not actually been refuted)

Person 1 has poor memory this is demonstrated throughout the argument Person 2 points out person 1's poor memory and uses it as proof that his argument must be faulty because of it.

Person 1 has very good memory Person 1 uses this fact as proof for his point

(This is the absence of reason and also asserting their proof as memory is unfalsifiable)

Person 1 could not remember their initial point or misremembered it Person points this out and asserts that their argument is invalid because of this.

(Inability to remember their initial point does no affect the credence of the point.)

Person 1 and person 2 are in an argument Person 1 has bad memory Person 2 has very good memory Person 2 states that since their memory is better than person 1 their points are more valid. ^{— Unsigned, by: 194.82.50.5 / talk / contribs}

Talk:saloon_bar is usually reserved for super-meta discussion. Discussion about discussion kind of stuff. You wanted plain ol' rationalwiki:saloon bar. ikanreed ^{🐐Bleat at me} 19:34, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

The time has come

for a new poll. That old one has literally been up for months, someone replace it already. — Oxyaena ^Harass 06:34, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

I'd like to put a new poll up, but I don't know how. DuceMoosolini^{Your friendly RW dictator moderator} 21:24, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Neither do I, time to call @D, RW's underpaid handyman. — Oxyaena ^Harass 22:01, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Just put one on RationalWiki:To do list/Pointless polls. I think Kazitor used to be one of the main contributors to it. —RWRW (talk) 23:45, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

I put up a new poll. Better poll ideas are welcome though. — Dysk (contribs) 19:50, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

How Do You Get to Post to The Different WIGO's?

I wanted to ask a question about whether an edit/creating a new article under Hinduism was justified but I can't post to the Saloon Bar. Isn't the Saloon Bar supposed to be for posting anything? I thought maybe there might be an article under the Help section but I couldn't find anything. So... is it just the Talk sections then that function as the 'post anything' part? Is the Saloon Bar then for special posts that get promoted from the (hic) posts? How do you get access to the WIGO posts? Do you need to perhaps prove yourself through quality edits and posts? Cumulus (talk) 06:46, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

I believe you need to have been here a bit and made some edits, and occasionally pages get locked once in a while for various reason. AMassiveGay (talk) 07:06, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Any idea on how many edits and how long? How often and how long are pages locked? What are the various reasons? Cumulus (talk) 08:23, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Harassment of Oxyaena

I've been seeing relentless harassment of Oxyaena in saloon, both from IP and named users. This is beyond childish, and there has been a severe absence of mod intervention. I don't care what bones users on the wiki have to pick with her, this is pissing me off. Minish (talk) 14:52, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, I banned the latest BoN to try their luck, doubtless someone will either revert the ban or the BoN will simply change their IP, but nothing much else I can do about it. Lord knows I've tried. — Oxyaena ^Harass 14:56, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

I've been reverting the harassment as I find it and blocking the offenders. There isn't much more we can do. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 14:59, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Which I appreciate, I've noticed. Thanks. With this kind of format there's not much we can do, I mostly have taken to trying to ignore it now, not let it bother me as much, but it's still makes participating in this community less welcoming. — Oxyaena ^Harass 15:04, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for doing what you can. I didn't realise that there isn't much that can be done in the long-term. Minish (talk) 15:09, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Morris takes every opportunity to cause problems tbh. EK (talk) 14:00, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Quick Question

Some of this place seems totally off the wall bat shit insane, and some of it seems serious and I can't tell what the intention is. So I'm asking if this wiki is ironic, or if some people use it as so and some people are serious, or if all of it's serious because I can't really figure it out. ^{— Unsigned, by: 67.4.31.41 / talk}

It's a bit of both. БaбyЛuigiOнФire🚓^(T|C) 22:02, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

To answer your question: yes. ShabiDOO 22:58, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

This wiki isn't even insane compared to some of the thing ive see on Conservapedia ""helpmeimscared!"" (talk) 17:47, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

It's the internet, it has always been full of degenerates. GIFT and all. We try to get rid of the more toxic members, but, politics... SockPup (talk) 19:06, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Collapsing drama?

Hey, I wasn't sure if I am allowed to collapse drama threads. I am pretty sure a lot of users don't want to read about it in the saloon. If I did collapse it without being allowed to, let me know. — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 13:46, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

its normally encouraged to collapse obvious trolling. EK (talk) 14:01, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

well... not sure if the drama is quality-wise better than trolling tho — Godless Raven ^talk_stalk^walk_balk 🌹 14:04, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

I collapse stuff a lot. Sometimes I get a bit carried away, to the point that HBC once scolded me for collapsing a few of those awful Oxy/Cory flame wars, if a bit harshly. (And of course, I collapsed some of GR's.) All this drama from HBC, GR, and Oxy has made this saloon bar that was supposed to be fun a toxic cesspool ruled by someone you can bait with a pointless poll that isn't even about her specifically- and her arch-nemeses' (also toxic) drama isn't helping either. Heck, I even invented the following new collapse:

--Goatspeed. _{How's my editing}🎄CircularRasoning🎄^{My experiments} 03:29, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Nice necropost bro. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 04:42, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Nice reply to a necropost --Goatspeed. _{How's my editing}🎄CircularRasoning🎄^{My experiments} 06:51, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Brazilian guy making a Indie Game

So I have started to make a indie game in RPG Maker. It is an African themed RPG set in a ficional world inahbited by humans, furries , talking animals and spiritual beings. I even launched a very flaming manifesto Wrong Points in the Game Industry and Possible Solutions, both in English and Portuguese, to help create buzz about it. Most people torpedoed most of what I put in said manifesto, but anyway, I put the question in the table. Now I have the most hard part of the work ahead, actually starting to work in the development of the game. Wish me luck! KemalOliver (talk) 23:55, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Ive been developing games off and on for about 7 years, and can tell you the hardest part is staying motivated. While I disagree with a lot of points in your manifesto (I meant to post a reply but forgot because of other things), more games is only a good thing as far as I see it. Remember to not burn yourself out too early and keep a road map of what you want in your project. Good luck, have fun, and may you sell a million copies. MirrorIrorriM (talk) 16:24, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

How to create topic on Saloon Bar

This sounds like a crazy question, but how can I create posts in the saloon bar? -- SixtyNine

New topics go at the bottom of Saloon Bar (so your question goes at the bottom of this page, not top). I also assume Saloon Bar is semi protected so you probably can't edit until you have at least autoconfirmed here. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 04:41, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

What is this even used for

Why tf there a talk page for a talk page. lmao. 🖤 ASELA^ཊལྐ 🖤 02:04, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

I agree, it's a pointless page. It just calls to be vandalized because there are so few edits that vandals will have their name popping up in the fossil record. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 17:05, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

I assume it's used for that Ardbeg advertisement on top. Man, got to go buy me a bottle tomorrow. Knight Commander^{In Service}_{To Her}^Goatness 17:12, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Laphroaig FTW. Zontar (talk) 02:09, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

It's tempting to respond

But this person's end game is to spread views and disrupt Saloon bar. I still recommend ignore, revert, block. If you respond with a lengthy post, I appreciate the effort of some responses but just don't waste it on those wanting you to waste effort. Anyway that's my feeling. If a mod doesn't like my suggestion and think I'm overstepping, let me know. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 17:09, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Is this directed at me? MirrorIrorriM (talk) 03:45, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

No, it's directed at Ken. He's been spamming the saloon for a while now...-Flandres (talk) 03:48, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Hi!

This is my first time signing up for a wiki of any type, and have a few questions:

1: May I add a joke with my username under the RationalWiki section of the 'You have two cows' page?

2: Is there any way I could potentially be helpful? My main personal fixations is really anything relating to neurodiversity and/or LGBTQ+ (think Autism Speaks, Judge Rotenburg Center, etc etc)

I think that's it, as I'm going to look over the RationalWiki pages about- well, RationalWiki and learn what to do. (Hopefully I did this thing right, I have no clue)

(Also, this is in this part because I have no clue how to talk on the main saloon) ^{— Unsigned, by: ThatOneGoblin / talk / contribs} 00:24, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Maybe you could start out on Wikipedia itself, this place is a bit notorious for getting heated. Wikipedia can be great for getting tips too, places like Wikipedia:WP:TH are quite useful for answers within an hour. Remember, sign with four tildes ( ~~~~ ) to sign your posts on dedicated talk pages, only at the end of your post. 104.225.183.70 (talk) 00:10, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

A Humble Apology

Hello again, I am sorry for the arguement I caused in the main page, and now it seems I can no longer continue my proposition there. If I am no longer allowed to edit on the main page, then I am sorry for the offenses I committed.

I would like to re-orient the dialogue towards a more productive end, mainly a proposition for a conspiracy theory that I think is significant enough for a page all on it's own: the "Rothschild owned central banks conspiracy.

I apologise that I am being so repetitive, but I think this conspiracy theory is important due to it's frequency and place in the conspiracy theorist and all too often the anti-semitie's lexicon. As stated before I do not possess the personal ability to due this topic justice on my own, but I think this conspiracy must be totally critiqued for the aforementioned reasons. I hope this proposition goes somewhere.96.230.207.83 (talk) 20:23, 14 July 2021 (UTC)An Advocate

Don't worry about the argument, it's not your fault. As for not being able to edit the page, I take full responsibility for locking it due to a troll. ☭Comrade GC☭^{Ministry of Praise} 20:41, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

More my fault than yours. Both of yours. Never feel guilty for the actions of others. I just hope we didn't scare you away... CorruptUser 20:46, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Don't worry, you didn't scare me away. I just want to help RationalWiki, and I think debunking this theory will help improve the site. If you do not consider it significant enough to merit it's own page, that is fine, but I believe it does.

Thank you for your apologies.96.230.207.83 (talk) 20:57, 14 July 2021 (UTC)An Advocate

Feel free to make a user for yourself, so that as you contribute and it becomes clear you aren't completely insane, we can refer to you as something other than a Bunch'o'Numbers (BoN). CorruptUser 21:04, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

For the record I agree that the Rothschild conspiracy is big enough that we could probably improve what we have on it. Takes a good block of time, unfortunately, to do that, but I'll keep that in mind when I get a large enough chunk. PanGalacticGargleBlaster (talk) 21:14, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your time, PanGalacticGargleBlaster.96.230.207.83 (talk) 21:18, 14 July 2021 (UTC)An Advocate

Citation styles?

If I'm citing a peer-reviewed study or journal article or whatnot, is there a preferred citation style? I prefer APA, but sometimes MLA is the first thing presented to me if I hit "cite this article" and my laziness takes over. Quantumgeek333 (talk) 01:08, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

I don't think there is a preference. If there were, it would be here. 𝒮𝑒𝓇𝑒𝓃𝑒 ^talk 01:11, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

No preference. The citation is what counts. However, using a consistent citation style (in your article or whatever) is more aesthetically pleasing. Leucippus^{Salva veritate} 01:22, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

The Boys from the County Hell!

If there was ever a song worthy of this godforsaken bar—this would be it. “Me daddy was a blue shirt and my mother a madam,

My brother earned his medals at Mai Lei in Vietnam”—this song is about a mean bastard. In any event, this a great song for a pub crawl. Leucippus^{Sapere aude} 21:23, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

.

i saw the pogues on st patricks day one year with my flatmate and his mum. in shephards bush i thinkAMassiveGay (talk) 21:49, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Ohhh… I’m a tad bit envious. During their prime they put on one hell of a show. Shane MacGowan was, and is, a great story teller. Leucippus^{Sapere aude} 21:56, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Something to incorporate into the Saloon Bar’s welcome

I think this video, particularly from 0-0:49 seconds, captures the atmosphere of the joint:

There’s only so many times a straight man can walk past a bar, which has a sign that reads ‘beautiful naked women’, and then say “no not for me”. Leucippus^{Salva veritate} 19:44, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Article votes

Hello, total newb here. What is the purpose of up or down-voting on various articles? Should we vote on relevance for rational readers, whether it's well written, or something else? TIA! ^{— Unsigned, by: BenderRod / talk / contribs}

It's not completely clear, but from my experience, up voting is probably a combination of interesting, relevant news, good quality news, and probably good news. I suppose irrelevant news or indifference is "neutral". Downvotes are sometimes used for terrible news, but I've seen it for poor summaries as well as clickbait. --It's-a me, 🎄LeftyGreenMario!🎄 23:34, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Oops

I accidentally marked https://rationalwiki.org/w/index.php?title=RationalWiki:Saloon_bar&oldid=2403593 as patrolled. I was paging forward hitting "newer edit", "newer edit", etc, and the final revision brought "mark as patrolled" under my pointer and I clicked without reading. Is there a way to revoke the patrol, or does it trivially not matter? Dave Wise 2 (talk) 16:27, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Should be no bother. All patrolling is is flagging up unpatrolled edits for somewhat closer examination. If you accidentally patrolled something it's no big deal but a quick check to make sure it wasn't bad would be all the remedy needed. If you somehow found a way to unpatrol hundreds of edits, however... Queex_{chthonic murmurings} 16:42, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

bar protected?

For how long? 138.207.198.74 (talk) 05:08, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

troll collapse issues

i tried to collapse a series of troll posts under the section about lepen, and then i accidentally collapsed the following section. i don't know how to fix it. can someone help me? G Man (talk) 15:41, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

never mind, i got it. G Man (talk) 15:45, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Where can I ask a mod what is and is'nt acceptable to post?

I understand the rules but just to be safe I like asking a mod just so that I don' have a backlash when posting where could I go to ask someone whether a post is appropriate or not.Theodor Hugs-a-lot (talk) 02:15, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Just post whatever you want; after reading this. Scream!! (talk) 10:08, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Where do I post music?

I want to post my personal favorite of Kourosh Yaghmaei's songs, but there's apparently an informal ban against posting videos on the Bar. Where would I post it? Vee (talk) 19:38, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Informal ban? Since when? Aceⁱ⁹ 19:40, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Eh, there was a mention of it in response to Arcadium, or maybe I'm misinterpreting things. Vee (talk) 19:43, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

People have posted video in the bar since its inception. Aceⁱ⁹ 19:48, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

But there was a request to not "embed" the video in the page. Cardinal Chang (talk) 20:39, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure people can handle the occasional embed. Because, you know, people have been doing it since the sites inception. Aceⁱ⁹ 20:40, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm sure they can handle the "occasional" embed, but the request came about after a particular, now departed, user would fill the Saloon with embedded video after embedded video.Cardinal Chang (talk) 20:43, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

And that user has now departed. So when someone starts doing it again we can tell them to knock it off. So what's the problem? Aceⁱ⁹ 20:52, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

None, thought it was a standing rule. My bad. Cardinal Chang (talk) 20:59, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

I think the main issue in the past if I recall was that some Bar readers on perhaps older machines had resources issues with embedded videos, especially a lot of them. I don't know if this still applies to today's readers. Links are better from my experience anyways, the embedded Youtube player will double the page request size when loading the Bar and download God knows what advertising crapola from Google (my uBlock Origin install blocks nothing from the RW Bar on its own, but blocks multiple requests from a Bar with a Youtube embed). 35.140.177.2 (talk) 21:22, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Again - I don't think the odd embed is enough to kick up a problem about unless someone is doing it constantly. Sure links are better but no nee to get all worked up about someone doing it once. Aceⁱ⁹ 21:46, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

http interwiki links

Currently every interwiki link at this site is http, example: w:Never Gonna Give You Up links to http://.

Could you change that to https? A small step towards more private Internet.

Full list: [1]

Open minded (talk) 20:41, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

I wonder when was the last time a tech went through the interwiki table. Most browsers (and good websites) should automatically redirect to HTTPS, but I'll try to go through it tomorrow and change the links. Rabbitseatcarrots (talk) 21:07, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm tempted to say Ken is the worst

Just in light of how much of a nuisance he is here, but all of the Conservapedia Crew are pretty awful. Vee (talk) 20:18, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

He does have some pretty awful opinions, that's for sure. --Luigifan18 (talk) 16:48, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

From what I have seen user:RobSmith is the worse by far. He is nothing more than a propaganda voice for Putin. He accuses all Ukrianians of being Nazis and anyone who shows support for Ukriane as "Nazisymphs" while creaming over the Wagner Group who litterally have Swastikas tattoed all over their bodies. He applauds the murder of civilians as ridding the world of Nazis and the mass removal of children to Russia because they will not grow up as Nazis. Conservative seems to have been relegated to Comrade Number 4 falling beneath LT in ranking. Where his superiors go on about how great triator Trump his, Nazis and more traditional conservative ideologies he posts about "Man boobs". To Godwin myself a little he is the Rudolph Hess of the hiearachy. Nominally important but in reality a laughing stock to insiders and outsiders alike.ITFC78 (talk) 23:53, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

"Nominally important" Are you fucking kidding me?

RobSmith, Ken and their ilk are only important in their own minds. Their kookfarts on the internet today are about as relevant as a if a fly sat on Chloe Kardashain's ass tonight. —cosmikdebris ^talk stalk 02:06, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, I am new here.

I am Comrade Jason. I stumbled upon this site and found it to be interesting. I think I will join this community and participate often!^{— Unsigned, by: ComradeJason / talk / contribs}

An American Conversation Podcast

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Draft:An_American_Conversation_Podcast

I'm new to RationalWiki.

An American Conversation Podcast is clearly worth a RationalWiki article. These muppets have had every TERF from here to Neptune on their show.

Wwned and co-hosted by social worker Rose Medina MSW / Rose Medina MSSW and Hollywood actor Leland Heflin, featuring regular appearances by Sandra Currie, Halona Shaw LCSW and Deborah Corday. The primary focus is interviewing TERFs and anti-transgender activists. They also plug Genspect's transphobic misinformation campaign in a 5-part series of videos titled "Parents Despair."

Previous guests of the show include notorious bigot Graham Linehan, Kara Dansky, Marian Rutigliano, Natasha Chart and Lierre Keith from the anti-trans group Women's Liberation Front, multiple members of anti-trans group LGB Alliance including Graham Linehan's sidekick Arty Morty, debunked transphobic sexologist Ray Blanchard, multiple members of the transphobic environmentalist group Deep Green Resistance, Reduxx co-founder Genevieve Gluck, transphobic "Giggle" developer Sall Grover, transphobic trans man grifter Buck Angel and TERF trans woman Debbie Hayton, transphobic journalist Lisa Selin Davis, "Keep Prisons Single Sex" campaigner Heather Mason, anti-trans sports campaigner Linda Blade, transphobic author Phyllis Chesler, transphobic author Simon Edge, Center for Bioethics and Culture founder and Reduxx author Kallie Fell, cryptoterf and anti-Islam activist Yasmine Mohammed, Graham Linehan follower Elaine Miller, Gender Dissent founder Felicia Rembrandt, Speak Up For Women founders Katrina Biggs and Suzanne Levy, transphobic activist Rosa Alvarez, transphobic writer Cherry Smiley, Women's Liberation Front supporter and transphobic author Eleanor Cowan, and transphobic biologist Colin Wright.

Worth noting - occasionally guests aren't visibly involved in anti-transgender activism.

My name is Darcy Rohan and An American Conversation Podcast slandered me on Youtube and attributed quotes to me that I didn't write. Please feel free to read my Medium article about this if you want to learn more. https://medium.com/@darcyrohan/meet-the-terfs-d8e534c3f593

I'd like An American Conversation Podcast to have a RationalWiki page. My previous draft was deleted. ^{— Unsigned, by: Darohan85 / talk / contribs}

On talk pages, please sign your comments using four tildes (~~~~) or by clicking on the sign button: on the toolbar above the edit panel. You can also indent successive talk page comments using one more colon (:) for each line. Thank you. —cosmikdebris ^talk stalk 22:10, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Are dual- or triple- contributions to WP, CP and RW permitted?

Can you make the same change on two or three of the wikis at once? Fja2021 (talk) 04:19, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

You could be a registered user on the 3 wikis at the same time, if that's what you mean. But as for making the same change to articles on the 3 wikis at exactly the same time, no that's not possible. And anyway, the articles on the 3 wikis are not the same. It's unlikely that you could make the same edit to Goat, Goat and Goat. Spud (talk) 11:17, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

I have just read this. I agree with Spud that it would be difficult. Your edit here would be subject to our normal scrutiny with regard to our community policies, POV etc. These policies are not the same as the other wikis you mention, furthermore it would also be subject to revision/correction by any other editor here. How your edit would be handled by other wikis would be down to them. Though - in reality - CP might just delete it on principle if they knew the same edit were made on RW. So I would say that technically it might be possible, but practically it probably wouldn't work.Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 20:26, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

You probably meant in the sense of it being socially "allowed". There are different standards but between RationalWiki and Wikipedia I think there are many instances where the same information could be inserted in much the same way (I doubt anyone will seriously give you a hard time about that). Obviously you can't insert jokes or that sort of thing into Wikipedia. I shouldn't even talk much about editing Conservapedia, why would one bother. But I suppose there are some slim crossover issues. One of recent memory is we both very much don't seem to like Ron DeSantis. Though for Trumpian conservatives it's more an issue of loyalty and whatever else they can throw at the wall than the sort of things we have tended to criticize him for. So even then I'm really straining for an example where you'd want to be dual-editing RW/CP. Chillpilled (talk) 05:49, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

@Fja2021, I found a multi-wiki-contribution of yours, but I don't know if you'd like attention pointed towards the specifics, given what you wrote on your user page elsewhere. Anyway, the article here on RW ended up fine. --ApooftGnegiol (talk) 07:11, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

It would be possible to have several pages on different wikis in editing mode with the same info and 'click, click, click' so pasted in a span of a few seconds. For anything more than 'bare details' ('X's term of office ended [date]') - different wikis will have different requirements so probably not practical. And - if you have more than one username (for whatever reasons) you might be given a warning for copyvio-ing yourself and/or being rumbled (as no time difference between changes, unlike 'normal monitoring of the wikiverse'). Anna Livia (talk) 11:45, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Infernobot

Did It stop archiving the bar? GeeJayK^{Where all evil dwells} _{Where every lie is true} 11:44, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

The bar was archived twice on the 28th. You can see the archive log here: User:Inferno Bot#Recent contributions. Bongolian (talk) 07:28, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

I started that Sound of Freedom movie

It's got a LOT of fade cuts in the first third. I can't finish it tonight but I found it. Also I used more of the hottest sauce I have than I normally do. I shed a tear on the toilet. Also I picked a username, communist in spirit, skeptical in interpersonal relations Havana Longday (talk) 06:02, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

made a foolproof password, fooled too hard, but it was a good username. 2600:8804:500:FE90:A152:C12:7A09:242A (talk) 08:29, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

It was really bad as a movie. It is scary to say that, because what am I, then, a fan of child trafficking? I am a fan of movies, and I am confident saying this is not even as good as the generous negative reviews. It's a bad movie that hates child trafficking. I also hate child trafficking. Anybody who says it's got good cinematography is a coward. 2600:8804:500:FE90:B8BA:61C5:86EE:292D (talk) 02:51, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Patrolling

Why is it such a pain in the ass to patrol the Bar? Carthage (talk) 05:17, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Anything in particular bring this on? KarmaPolice (talk) 21:53, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Pointless Fluff: A Menu for the Saloon Bar

It always seems strange that the Bar, given its theming, doesn't have a menu to browse for food options to order.

This may seem a bit pointless, but by doing this out of fun, do you think the Saloon Bar can have its very own virtual and snarky "menu" of booze, food, and other beverages to "offer" to the patrons?

Something as simple as RationalWiki:Saloon bar/Menu could work. TheEternalOutsider (talk) 23:12, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Something to get drunk to? That would fit in thematically with all the constant virtual fist-fights that go on at the Bar, and to a lesser extent elsewhere. This is a very rowdy wiki. Carthage (talk) 23:30, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

So some ideas I have for the bar include many of its own signature and specialty brews and cocktails alongside the usual booze, an international menu of different bar food with unique specials, and a lot more content to order and pick up. But it's really the RationalWiki-style snark in the names and contents of the unique and signature menu items (booze, bar food, and non-alcoholic beverages alike) that would make this truly special. TheEternalOutsider (talk) 19:47, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Possible Low Blow

I think someone here in the bar evoked Godwin's gambit (a term I use for bringing up Nazism and the use of Godwin's Law) against me as well as making assumptions based on my username (which is judging a book by its cover). That's considered a low blow and a personal attack. TheEternalOutsider (talk) 20:58, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

You decided to start a debate on Indigenous science for no fucking reason and you decided to out-hitler hitler by declaring loudly that china has no culture. A somebody. (talk) 21:46, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

I am aware of other cranks out there who do this sort of thing to others to deflect debate. TheEternalOutsider (talk) 21:00, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

As always: Carthage (talk) 21:01, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

OK. Let's keep it out of the coop. I'll remain respectfully silent on the bar fight going on. TheEternalOutsider (talk) 21:01, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

That's a straw man and a misunderstanding. What I meant to say was that China used to have culture before Mao Zedong gutted it in his attempt to mimic the USSR. Taiwan's culture remains intact and undamaged, so there. TheEternalOutsider (talk) 21:52, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

And look what China is doing to the Uyghurs and the Tibetans. I've seen a lot of the CCP's disinformation campaigns as well, to know that claims of me being a Nazi hold no water (The CCP plays the race card all the time when called out, and they've astroturfed a lot of fake institutions in the West). But again, I shouldn't feed the trolls... TheEternalOutsider (talk) 21:54, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Now as for the Indigenous Science thing, I was talking about the battle against alternative medicine before it devolved into a bar fight I respectfully stayed out of, and your race card falls flat again. Just saying. TheEternalOutsider (talk) 21:56, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Let's just apologize and move on. TheEternalOutsider (talk) 21:56, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Menu Update: Everything Else.

As there is a annual bar meeting to bring booze to the bar for a taste test, how about the other stuff, namely the food and the non-alcoholic beverages. Perhaps this can help with building the dedicated menu for the bar itself. TheEternalOutsider (talk) 03:01, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

• Dunno about non-alcoholic beverages, but i'm more than happy to mix some mojitos for everyone!

This user is RWs self-appointed culinary expert

N A Z U N A -H I W A T A S H I-

Ask your doctor about cocaine!TheAlePower (talk) 13:02, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Here's the menu link. It's for booze, food, and more. TheEternalOutsider (talk) 01:15, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Sarah Haider's recent descent into neo-reactionary garbage...

Hey, since we all know and have pointed out Ayaan Hirsi Ali being a transphobe, a Donald Trump apologist and incredibly reactionary liar, why haven't we made an article for Sarah Haider doing more or less the same thing? (maybe except for the donald trump apologia, though Haider is literally claimed US immigration policies in the past used to be better and these past polices were "better" than multiculturalism.) Can we make an article on how much of reactionary fool she is?

I learned about a lot of reactionaries from rational wiki maybe we ought to inform others that haven't gotten attention and the ones rational wiki hasn't criticized yet, the same way as well.

https://twitter.com/SarahTheHaider/status/1712981077969526980 https://twitter.com/SarahTheHaider/status/1295217805143552004 ^{— Unsigned, by: Doyouliketravel / talk / contribs}

Initiatives Beyond RationalWiki

I am unsure who to find and talk to past RationalWiki for help involving taking action on topics like the fight against pseudoscience and alternative medicine.

I have a few questions involving stuff at the Bar, and all of which involve taking initiative beyond the confines of RationalWiki.

1. As editors here, is there anything that can be done past here to push for projects and initiatives past this site and onto the rest of the real world?
2. If collaboration with fact checking organizations like those at Poynter can be set up to tackle bunk and misinformation out there.
3. Is the Bar a good place to rally up support for further projects?

Thanks for reading. TheEternalOutsider (talk) 04:55, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

@TheEternalOutsider The Bar would be a better place than the Back Alley. Not many people are going to see this. Spud (talk) 05:42, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Randomized saloon bar logo

It would be nice to have a random saloon bar logo every time someone refreshes the page, and MediaWiki has all of the technical capabilities to do this. Should i give this idea a shot or nah? If yes, would using something like the Jack Daniels logo cause copyright problems?

This user is RWs self-appointed culinary expert

N A Z U N A -H I W A T A S H I-

Ask your doctor about cocaine!TheAlePower (talk) 13:16, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

I think it'd be best to find a public domain image or make your own. Also software issues again. Carthage (talk) 13:19, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Software issues?

This user is RWs self-appointed culinary expert

N A Z U N A -H I W A T A S H I-

Ask your doctor about cocaine!TheAlePower (talk) 13:22, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

@TheAlePower because of what you did to your fucking signature, you twerp. I've had to undo it. Spud (talk) 13:24, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

And since you can't even get your own signature right, I wouldn't trust you to make any major changes to the look of the Saloon Bar. Spud (talk) 13:26, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Okay, i think i fixed my signature for good. --

This user is RWs self-appointed culinary expert

N A Z U N A -H I W A T A S H I-

Ask your doctor about cocaine!TheAlePower (talk) 13:40, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Spoiler warnings

So, I have a new idea for a topic, but it involves posting a spoiler for a video game that was recently published. How do I properly mark spoiler alerts? --Luigifan18 (talk) 05:22, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

I would imagine you could put it in the topic header or beyond that, if you want you could collapse it. Chillpilled (talk) 22:17, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

rationalwiki-tan

I know, I know, I'm bad at drawing. But I drew a little RationalWiki os-tan! :D she's got goat horns, goat eyes, and a sysop pin! i've had this idea in my head for a while but only drew it today. (mainly because i didn't know if there already was a rationalwiki-tan) --Chicken4War (talk) 19:02, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

It looks cute! --Goatspeed. _{How's my editing}🎄CircularRasoning🎄^{My experiments} 19:04, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

She's freaking adorable… are those little goat horns? --Luigifan18 (talk) 00:09, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Neat. Carthage (talk) 00:21, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Knocking on the Nut Trees

As for that OCD of mine that causes intrusive thoughts and FUD, sometimes I end up knocking on wood on a very sensitive topic, usually involving nutpicking or involving a taboo conversation, that causes offense for those that are actually vulnerable. It feels like a lose-lose situation for me where either I end up ruminating on the thought for weeks, or I share a controversial opinion and get rudely hounded by those with differing views on the subject. This is effectively equivalent to choosing between intimidation and self-censorship, something that genuinely damages academic free discourse and democratic governance. What should I do here come time I wish to knock on the nut trees? TheEternalOutsider (talk) 14:03, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

The way I deal with this is that I have a working assumption that no 'sensitive' topic is discussed with anyone unless it is proven to be 'safe' to do so. This is a variant of the old adage 'never discuss money, politics or religion' which I was taught on almost my first day in the workforce waay too long ago now - that as you cannot really choose who you work with, it's best to avoid topics which can put others' backs up. The answer is simple here; don't try to discuss such topics with people you don't know well.

Perhaps the easiest way to deal with this is to utilise such features such as Reddit's 'changemyview' or 'unpopularopinion' subs [perhaps 'AMIA' if it involves you doing something or not], perhaps also involving using a sock/throwaway account. Unless you truly are really unreasonable [think paedophilia apologia, organ harvesting, incest, cannibalism, genocide etc] you should be okay because while such places aren't a 'safe space' they are what I would consider 'friendly places' for these sorts of discussions. KarmaPolice (talk) 13:57, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

A topic that I have some controversial opinions on has to be with certain marginalized communities and their supporters, and specifically the most vocal, irrational, and uncritically thinking members of the bunch. The kinds of folks that attempt cancel culture, concern trolling, and/or sealioning all in the name of social justice. It's nutpicking, or rather as I'll call it, "nutcracking", but my thought process goes "If the nuts aren't cracked, then they'll contaminate the entire batch". I just don't want the nuts to take over a group, culture, or anything. Because I suspect those nuts in question will attempt to pass legislation that will mandate kowtowing to their group, while stripping away the legal rights of people for not kowtowing. Or an "The oppressed have become the oppressor, and nobody did anything to prevent it" kind of nightmare. TheEternalOutsider (talk) 18:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

If you are referring to what I think you might be [no names, no packdrill], I usually find it's more 'bad allies' who are the problem than members of the group itself [though they also often have their own nutjobs]. The problem happens with a map/territory issue; yes, you might speak of 'the LGBT community' or of 'neurodiversity' or of BAME but that hides the 'diversity within the diversity', so to speak.

After discounting the possibility that your held opinion is utterly rejected by the whole community [look, check that one out first, perhaps by asking a polite 'AITA?' question on the community's subreddit or hell, perhaps asking someone here], the chances of at least some of said group agreeing with you is somewhat decent - your opinion might be a rather small minority, but it doesn't mean it's wrong. Unless you're in somewhere utterly demented, some small group managing to persuade a larger group of politicos to impose that viewpoint on everyone is pretty low. Now, them taking over informal places like say groups, online forums etc are quite possible [I have been 'exiled' from a few over the years due to various heresies] but y'know, they rarely if ever actually have any much effect on the real world?

Unless you're dealing with nuttery within your own community, the best you can realistially do is to politely point out to people in general that you know 'not all Xs think like that' - one line which has stuck in my head is 'As with the Christian religion, the worst advertisement for Socialism is its adherents' [George Orwell] and it equally applies if you replace 'Socialism' with any movement you'd care to name. KarmaPolice (talk) 20:35, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Either way, thanks for the advice. TheEternalOutsider (talk) 09:51, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Template tinkering

I have this messagebox I was tinkering with just in case I need to bust some nuts.

Warning: Nutpicking ahead!

TheEternalOutsider (talk) 20:52, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Can I mention the 'Dead Dove' meme (as possibly relevant). Anna Livia (talk) 23:37, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Part 2

There are a few other things I am concerned about in life regarding possible evil people. First, there's the concern of Machiavellian bad faith trolls that exploit social media mobs and/or courts to cancel or financially damage people just because they're power-hungry misanthropes and/or sadists who seek glee from other people suffering. They pretend to be a member of a marginalized group and sealion their way into a field. When called out, they immediately pull out the victim card and accuse the user of hate, siccing mobs of uncritically thinking social media hounds to harass them and demand cancellation or firing from their jobs, or abusing the TOS of sites that explicitly prohibit hate to deplatform them. Alternatively, they feign their persona and take the situation to court with their accusations, not because they want to win, but just to burden their victim with a hefty legal fee that damages them for the rest of their lives. The concern only gets worse when administrators are manipulated into the troll's side, effectively gaming the system and obstructing justice for the targeted victim, leaving the victims helpless against a kangaroo court of moderators.

Furthermore, there's the concern of folks increasingly wishing to close off all channels of expression into "safe spaces", or basically echo chambers. This effectively causes people to walk on eggshells just to avoid offending anyone, for they will simply use the "safe space" excuse or the former Machiavellian foulness above to cause trouble, and opening even more platforms to pervert moderators into hapless pawns that serve them and only them. (And just because I have a few niche opinions too is just enough of an excuse for these bad faith individuals to harass and ban me from places by the logic above.)

Are these evil folks real, or is my brain creating a new enemy out of past experiences with zero tolerance policies and schools who were favoritist towards some people over others? TheEternalOutsider (talk) 06:40, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

I detest the lack of specifics when it comes to these rumors because it starts to look like something similar to suspicions of a 'cultural marxist boogeyman' that's said to exist and rear its head to frighten the children but in reality often never does. There is an import in naming names and pointing out events rather than being evasive and creating these creatures of the night that inevitably end up poisoning the well in discourse in the future. Remember, radical feminists exist, but to someone who has only heard of things from the right, every feminist is a 'radical feminist', until educated on those specifics and their strawmen properly investigated. Do not be afraid of naming people, because surely if you had a cogent argument there is no fear in doing so. BumblingBuffoon (talk) 05:55, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

How have you done this? A love letter to the term Ass-holy

Assholy, that's objectively very funny, I will probably use it , but I won't call it my own, it is such a funny pun. I don't want anyone to worry about me, it's been a long time since I've cared about that baby needs mommy bullshit. I did have to learn it. But the real problem is I remember all of it. Every emotion has been had, every emotion I read from every girl I've ever swooned over, and it's a lot. The more I've seen, the worse I feel about opening my mouth on a situation that concerned them a lot more than it concerned me. every emotion is like opening a big treasure chest of misunderstandtings that nobody can dig into with me, because the more I agree, the less I exist. I agree that maybe I get feelings for a girl because I am attracted to girls, and it's really hard for me to separate physical attraction from emotional attraction. I know one girl who was an absolute babe, and she actually got so upset with me about music that she threw hands. Domestic violence is really bad, but in her defense, I was listening to a lot of ska at Tue time. Things happened, I was a young man, and words came out of my mouth. It hurt somebody in a way that I had no intention of, and for a long time I've been trying to not exist over my words worst existense.sAnd being said, it does look like there's a bullet list above something I have said, and without a signature, it looks like I said those things. They aren't awful, I am working on a tight 5, which doesn't have time for that particular ordeal, but I do have a 4 years as statute of limitiations rule for telling a joke about a person, and I do get enough when I have been the villain of a story. but I didn't say those things, and as great as I think they are, that is not my writing style and I have no ability to put a division between it or revert it. And it's disappeared, as if I'm insane. is that alright? Sheeeeesh. AssHoliness, what a great pun.Torrent (talk) 06:33, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Not sure, but I mean, fuck you guys

How difficult would it be to live and post like this, as a human? Great, I've seen it and now what? Torrent (talk) 07:17, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

What? Carthage (talk) 07:23, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

what is fine. I went for saloon bar, got locked in back alley, so that's okay. What next. Torrent (talk) 07:29, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

I have a space to defend myself, but you will never if you keep on the attack I am on your side. Torrent (talk) 07:43, 6 April 2024 (UTC)n

I left a clue for myself, I sincerely apologize. I was blacked out last time I was here, and confused about it. I read my blackout diary, which I'm not really brave enough to read most nights. So again, I'm really actually sorry, I'm fully aware of how to reach this page now. fuck me, is the answer. Torrent (talk) 05:53, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Great, there's no context for this ranting and now I'm hopelessly confused. --Luigifan18 (talk) 15:28, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

You say that like it's a bad thing – isn't that what we're all here for? Jt7959 (talk) 16:57, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Fundie God is a sadist

I think I have managed to get on top of my problem. So, here goes the fundie story: God is an omnipotent, perfect being. So, he creates everything perfectly... including Satan. Now fundies say that Satan was created good and perfect. So that begs the question, why did he fall? Many of them now start to tie themselves up in knots, citing his own ego, etc. BUT HE WAS CREATED PERFECT, so he should have no such flaws. The logical conclusion - God made him fall. Now some other fundies say that it was all part of God's plan to save the world through Christ. All right then, God allows bone cancer, leprosy, infant mortality, etc., all so that he can save the world... which he promptly forgets to do for thousands of years, in which time he is perfectly happy to let everyone worship false gods, Satan, and stuff like that. And oh, he entertains himself once in a while by paying special attention to one people, whom he gets a kick out of tormenting...

Now comes his saviour. A messiah who flies in the face of all Jewish messianic expectations, but nah, he is the correct messiah and my son and you must accept him. Now, the poor son is brutally tortured to death so that humanity can be saved... from Satan... whom God instigated. At this point the good cop bad cop thing is becoming rather evident, but I digress.

God still refuses to reveal his messiah in any logical way. We must rely on stories which cropped up hundreds of years after Jesus, four specific gospels out of a whole synod of gospels, and hundreds of other religions and claimants that seem equally if not much more credible. But no, everything else is down to Satan... whom God is very happy to give a free reign to.

The logical conclusion is, fundie God is a sadist who enjoys seeing his creation suffering, and getting into knots and killing each other over figuring out how to correctly worship him. Who knows, rather than believers, he might actually be more happy with those who figure out what a piece of work he is...

I think I can safely go back to my belief in Spinoza. Meow^Purr 03:35, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

God cannot be perfectly all-knowing and also good, this is theodicy. Consider the lack of free will in any person's actions, from birth, hitler was destined to have the Jews killed, now if that is true and we assume people's lives follow a deterministic but still improbable path that can't be fully predicted (but can, to some degree, be predicted), then that means God planned that. Every death, every sickness, every evil that ever was, Satan's crimes? God's will, there's no way around it. Evil stems from God. God therefore, given the immensity of suffering either does not exist (the more hopeful option) or does exist, and makes you live through this mess and demands you call whatever it is good. BumblingBuffoon (talk) 06:00, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

i like ikari warriors

Its a fun game

Where did their hair go? ^{— Unsigned, by: Maztr on / talk / contribs} Requesting thread archival (why?) Plutocow (talk)

So why ain't America decriminalizing drugs?

Prohibition failed with liquor. So why are drugs still criminal in some states? Why not legalize all drugs, given the war on drugs is only chasing trouble for people? Will America never fully lift the ban on drugs? GrumpyHippo (talk) 22:59, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

There are certain drugs which are illegal in all states. And the answer to why this remains so is simple; it is a political third rail which no Democrat will touch [because it promises no electoral bonus and threats of lot of electoral loss] while Republicans are generally hard-on to bellowing that the War On Drugs must be continued, even if it's effectively been lost aeons ago. It's literally that simple. KarmaPolice (talk) 00:17, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

It also fills beds, which in turn fills the coffers of the prison-industrial complex. Carthage (talk) 00:21, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Things take time. The state of "drugs" as a moral panic is *much* less so than it was compared to, say, the 1980s. Essentially:

A) Internationally (and even in the United States), I think there is growing recognition that the "War on Drugs" hardline approach was a failure.

B) America's opioid crisis I think helped shift things some. In the 1980s, the "popular stereotype" was of foreign drug lords (complete with often stereotypical, shallow caricatures in media) coming in to ruin communities in the name of profit and greed via cocaine, crack, smack, or dope. This gave War on Drugs types plenty of Other-demonizing to work with. The opioid crisis, on the other hand, was pretty much *caused* by *the prescription pharmaceutical industry itself*. This doesn't give the US ruling class anti-drug propaganda artists much to work with. The War On Drugs has always had a wee bit of racism / down-punching classism, but that doesn't work when arguably the "drug kingpin" family that has killed the most lives in the US in the last couple decades *is* a member of the US ruling class itself: the Sackler family.

C) Marijuana is now legal in 24 states, and "close to legal" in all but 11 (counting medical marijuana). (This is actually warp speed compared to elsewhere! The number of nations in the EU that have legalized marijuana? 3, with Germany being the only major one to legalize so far. Don't look at the rest of the world...) At any rate, small wonder: as a recreational drug, it's "not *as* bad" on the negatives as many other things. I am guessing that in the next decade or two, it *will* be fully legal here in the US.

I am not sure you will ever see anything like an opioid being legalized... it's too problematic of a class (as the opioid crisis demonstrates). It's a great example why "legalize EVERYTHING!!" won't work unfortunately. But of late in America, it seems like some "new old" recreational plants that are fairly mild in nature (see: kava) have been treated pretty lightly so far. And there seems to be some legal "tinkering around the edges" with other classes, like psychedelics -- psilocybin "magic" mushrooms are legal in two states. The legalization has been mainly for "supervised psychedelics" sessions, and I could see that sort of thing gaining momentum (especially in light of reports of "off label" usage of ketamine really helping some people out) before full legalization happens (if it does, who knows on this class... but decriminalizing psychedelic drugs and/or approving supervised legal "experiences" is much better than the state of things under, say, Richard Nixon). BobJohnson (talk) 01:35, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

And my today's lesson is; making internal links is case-sensitive...

I think there's an argument for decriminalisation rather than legalisation of some things, and 'legalised, but heavily controlled' on others. I think societies need to basically, accept the fact there's always gonna be a smallish % of any population who will desire to 'get out of their heads' and is impervious to abstinence campaigns, so it then comes to a simple 'damage-limitation' exercise using stats [so I think weed, MDMA and shrooms would be legalised, in part to counter people who are semi-alcoholics due to drinking themselves half-cut most nights].

Which is the ultimate, secret reason why the War on Drugs continues; that there's a significant % of the population who are pretty puritanical - that they would oppose 'getting out of head' regardless to the safety of it - see in the UK the dying UKGov banning nitrous oxide on very spurious grounds [mainly involving litter] - similar to the fact they oppose any form of sex outside of missionary, silent, in the dark and with a opposite-sex spouse. The 'dangers' are merely a fig-leaf for this. If there isn't any, we'll just invent some. KarmaPolice (talk) 09:07, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Traffic in the Barchives

A simple question, but one I want answered. How much traffic do the archive pages of the Bar get? TheEternalOutsider (talk) 07:31, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

I browse them occasionally… --Luigifan18 (talk) 13:40, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Protecting Vulnerable Articles

Concerning repeated vandalism attempts on certain articles that may or may not seem like trolling, does it feel necessary to protect those vulnerable pages? TheEternalOutsider (talk) 08:36, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Only for short periods of time. We're not gonna do the Conservapedia "lock down every page permanently so nobody can ever edit" thing. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 13:52, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Esp as we might very well forget what the hell we locked... KarmaPolice (talk) 15:36, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I understand. TheEternalOutsider (talk) 15:56, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

If a page is repeatedly getting hit and no mod has done anything about it, please tell us! KarmaPolice (talk) 16:27, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

A repeatedly banned vandal continues to regularly create sockpuppets and vandalize certain pages for multiple years. Said vandal is most likely a far-right troll who doesn't care about repercussions and thinks it's funny to do so. And checking the block log by the recurring patterns of names of said socks and the near-identical copy-paste vandalism of targeted articles. TheEternalOutsider (talk) 07:44, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

And they will continue to do so until RW fundraises enough to have an orbital laser which can fry them. Like Duce says, the problem is the only reliable manner we can do this further than what we're doing already would be CP-esque mass 'blocking and locking', which really doesn't suit the ethos of RW. KarmaPolice (talk) 11:58, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Orbital laser?! Wouldn't smashing their computer be sufficient?! --Luigifan18 (talk) 13:42, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Orbital laser is actually the easiest option since we can just make a phone call to our Jewish friends. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 14:35, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

There's travel-time of the hammer-wielder to get to the offender. Plus, they might be using a mobile device [in fact one of our frequent vandals loves to use public wifis and leave us messages challenging us to 'mass block hospitals' and so on]. KarmaPolice (talk) 13:58, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I understand where you're getting at. Any other methods of demotivating regular vandals and making them rue their lives? TheEternalOutsider (talk) 14:21, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Just block them for a few days. It's not that serious. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 14:36, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't think that we need to make any particular changes because of some weirdo with a tampon fetish. (If that is the individual we are talking about.)Bob^{"Life is short and (insert adjective)"} 15:54, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

In other words, what can we do to destroy the psyches of the vandals and scar them for life, so they would be too scared to vandalize us ever again? TheEternalOutsider (talk) 00:19, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Bro, what the fuck. Chef Moosolini’s Ristorante Italiano^{Make a Reservation} 00:28, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

I think the easiest way is to simply revert and put in little blocks when needed. When they realise that a) it takes us less effort than them [esp as there's lots of us and little of them] and b) we could do this realistically forever, most give up after a bit. The few who don't and manage to slither through the anti-vandal paint, we can deal with them at our leisure. KarmaPolice (talk) 01:32, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Anti-Vandal Bot

Now that I think about it, does this wiki need a dedicated anti-vandal bot that patrols the wiki 24/7 and helps clean up vandalism in the mainspace? Because at times, nobody is online and response times could be a bit sluggish. TheEternalOutsider (talk) 10:22, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

If you're not going to make one yourself, there's no point having this discussion. Christopher (talk) 10:24, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Here's a starting link for what Wikimedia has: [2] TheEternalOutsider (talk) 10:32, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Bots are slow, they deal with quantity, not with fast response to a newly registered vandal. Better edit filters are possible, that's the low-hanging fruit really. --ApooftGnegiol (talk) 11:30, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

How about putting that nude woman photo in the edit filter so that only sysops can use it. TheEternalOutsider (talk) 12:14, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

File:Blocked_commons_image.jpg Christopher (talk) 14:05, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

That image is used for purposes besides vandalism. I would know because I redirected the image to File:Blocked_commons_image.jpg and was reverted by plutocow. BTW I personally think there should be a "mass rollback" action that can be done on blocked editors. If not that, a filter preventing people from adding large amounts of files to articles.Ioe bidome (talk) 15:52, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

What Do You Guys Think Of The User:McLaghing.

This Is Just A General Question From Some Curiosity About Him Like His Articles Didn't Like How His Article On James Damore Was Edited What Are Your Thoughts. ^{— Unsigned, by: 1.43.237.109 / talk / contribs}

@1.43.237.109 That person hasn't edited in 6 years, I am having a hard time understanding you as well, do you mean to say that you don't like his edits? The MoR (talk) 15:04, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

I Like The Way Every Word Has To Have A Capital At The Start... KarmaPolice (talk) 22:17, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

I Mean Dislike How It Was Edited From How He Created It.

Just a quick question...

Is making an article on Miniminuteman (decently famous archaeologist who releases YouTube videos debunking conspiracy theories) or Filip Zieba (TikToker who spits out conspiracy theorists) following RationalWiki's mission. Just asking as although I'm experienced with wikis, I'm not too sure on this wiki. Tavantius (talk) 15:21, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

@Tavantius Just to clarify, when you say, "following RationalWiki's mission", do you mean the TikTokker spews out conspiracy theories based on what they read here? The MoR (talk) 15:29, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

@MethodsOfRationality No. That was just a dumb mistake on my part. I'm just asking if the former and latter people could have articles here based on RationalWiki's mission. Tavantius (talk) 15:31, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

oh in that case, per Rationalwiki:Mission, "RationalWiki is not a general encyclopedia; it does not require articles on every ::known subject. :However, the wiki's mainspace welcomes many articles that do not relate to the primary missions of RationalWiki ::providing that they are :factually accurate and of interest to the community at large. These include articles on general science, ::historical events and :important individuals throughout the world.

The mission outlines what RationalWikians like to write about. As per most community standards, it's not a hard rule, but more of a ::suggestion. Articles that are wholly or mostly on-mission are likely to stay; those that aren't will probably go."

So I would say that if it's of interest to the community, it's welcome, and I would say someone who debunks conspiracy theories is of

relative importance here, but I think it is better to ask the others. As for the TikTokker, that would align with "Documenting the ::full :range of crank ideas;" so I would say that that's something that aligns with the mission, but again lets see what the others ::have to say. The MoR (talk) 15:36, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Both are missional, yes. For Youtubers we have a minimum notability requirement of 100k subscribers, however. Carthage (talk) 14:43, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

What Are Your Thoughts On This.

It's a common cause (being trans) that causes both having lower life expectancy and taking on estrogens.

Why is being trans lowers life expectancy on average ? Because it comes from a mental illness that makes you value your life less and think more about suicide, resulting in trans people committing suicide more often than sane people.

However, taking estrogens isn't linked to increase (nor lower) the risk of ill people from committing suicide, unlike the comic claims.

And before anyone starts : it's not a problem about society, a person with dysphoria will still feel off with its body even if alone on an island. ^{— Unsigned, by: 1.43.237.109 / talk / contribs}

The problem with trans mortality studies (like [3][4]) is that, at the moment, they are limited in scope. Nonetheless, to me, two things stand out:

A) Trans women often travelled in "similarish" circles as other LGBTQ people, therefore it's not surprising that the HIV epidemic heavily affected them just as such affected male homosexuals. I would expect studies to show further improvement in mortality over time as treatment for HIV continues to improve... just as it has for male homosexuals.

B) To use your *cough* frank terms, yes, poor IQ dumbfuck troll assholes who think of trans as a "mental illness" (compared to, what? Shitposting on a Wiki? That ain't sane, boy...) absolutely has an impact on trans lifespan, as the risk of suicide and other mental health issues is much higher.

That's the main thing it seems we know so far. I would hazard that there is probably little difference once a few "gotcha" factors like the above are ruled out. I can name a relatively well known trans woman off the top of my head that actually is older than Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Can you? BobJohnson (talk) 14:34, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

OP is wrong. Modern decent stats show that medical transitioning improves mental health outcomes as a rule for those who do - and that transitioning earlier in life [ie teen] gets better results than adult [this makes perfect fucking sense - if I know I don't want to be a woman, making me experience six years becoming one is at least 'deeply stressful' to most 'cruel punishment']. It's not about 'valuing your life less', it's the associated strains/stresses of being a minority and for trans people it's being a very visible, small minority which in countries like the USA is also a political punchbag.

Let's consider this. If you are trans and aren't 125% sure you pass [ie almost nobody] simply fucking existing is stressful. Every new bar, restaurant, shop, hotel etc is a level of at least mild anxiety - what if someone says something / is insulting / refuses service / etc? Will my employer be cool - and really cool or pretend cool for HR/PR reasons? [This is even more important if you're in a country which you need your work medical insurance to cover your E or T]. Constantly having to be the 'trans ambassador' to your cis circle whether you fucking want it or not, dealing with folks from your 'OldLife' [and possible rejection from some or even all] while dealing with the haters, the creeps and the bigots - and constantly worrying about their existence. A decent % are 'double minorities' - about half of transwomen and a quarter of transmen are bi/gay - which carries it's own baggage [and if they're an ethnic minority that's a triple minority!]. Love in general is an issue; the majority of cis people won't date a trans person [the only folks who scored over 50% on 'yes' is bi/pan folks and as we're about 5% of the population, we're a real small pool of 'possibles' to fish in].

Factor all this in, and then say trans folks have lower life expectancy and higher rates and worse mental heath - the only reasonable reply you can give is 'no fucking shit Sherlock!' KarmaPolice (talk) 18:59, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

What do you label as mental illness? Do these trans people commit suicide before or after transitioning? 🇷🇸 Serbian Arbiter (What would you have your arbiter do?) 10:05, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

How Come When I Look For Criticisms For Judaism All I See Is Antisemitic Shit.

I Like To Look At Criticisms Of Religions Such As Christianity And Islam, Etc. But When Look For Stuff On Judaism All There Is Stuff About Jews Being Evil All That Stereotypical Stuff Right. And Even When They Examine Stuff Like The Torah And Talmud, They Find Them As An Excuse To Paint Jews As Evil Folk, Now Don't Get Me Wrong I Find A Lot Of The Stuff In The Torah And Talmud To Messed Up (Like The Bible And Quran), But Use To Paint A Unsavory Picture Of Jewish People Which I Tried Looking At Their Side (Which I Do When Looking A Different Arguments). There Were Some Ok Ones Such As How Criticism Of Judaism Is Often Conflated With Antisemitism (Which Fair Enough Nothing Is Free From Criticism). But Then Most Of It Was Conspiracy And Ruling The World Drivel. What Do You Guys Think. P.S I Not Antisemitic In Any Way I'm Just Like To Look At Religious Criticisms As I'm An Ex-Muslim. ^{— Unsigned, by: Tryhardbutnottoomuch. / talk / contribs}

Why is this in titlecase? 🇷🇸 Serbian Arbiter (What would you have your arbiter do?) 10:08, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Just How I Do It. ^{— Unsigned, by: Tryhardbutnottoomuch. / talk / contribs}

On talk pages, please sign your comments using four tildes (~~~~) or by clicking on the sign button: on the toolbar above the edit panel. You can also indent successive talk page comments using one more colon (:) for each line. Thank you. Carthage (talk) 07:14, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Post-Election Site Protection

As the election looms closer, we may have to take action here. Does the Bar (and critical articles) here need extended protection for a time concerning the ramped-up risk of trolls, including sockpuppets of banned users? Considering the HCM four years prior, what measures can be taken to ensure order here and prevent HCM amidst the election fallout? Because topics at the Bar and beyond may or may not get derailed by said socks coming in to cause mayhem. (For the Bar in particular, a sock often lingers for longer here compared to the mainspace as the banhammer response is delayed and the sock gets some engagement, and by the time the sock is banned, it's often too late to salvage the talk.) TheEternalOutsider (talk) 20:48, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Speaking purely personally, I do try to 're-rail' a discussion if a troll did make a hijack attempt. There's also a few users who are fairly hot in troll-collapsing shit, while as a rule mods are hotter than I am on hammering the culprits [though this is more due to time diffs than anything else, though between us all I think we do provide 'continuity of cover']. I am personally more concerned about folks crossing the 'despair event horizon' or simply wallowing in angst/fear if the Orange One wins [or even if he doesn't], with folks being wound up even more by trolls a close second.

One thing which I think we need to consider is opening up a separate 'election Bar' or something and divert points etc away from the SB. Otherwise, the SB will become 95% filled with it [regardless how it happens] and folks might want somewhere which isn't full of it.

One other thing which complicates is that RW will be having our own mod elections after Nov 5th... KarmaPolice (talk) 21:30, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

A sort of adaptive lock could be useful, but it might be hard to implement. After all, there are a lot of political pages even after excluding all other countries', out, so a full lock might be a better solution --

This user is RWs self-appointed culinary expert

N A Z U N A -H I W A T A S H I-

Ask your doctor about cocaine!TheAlePower (talk) 18:47, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

This wiki could enter HCM in the coming weeks. Beware. TheEternalOutsider (talk) 06:41, 6 November 2024 (UTC)